#186: Gluten Was Causing My Depression and Migraines

Hey beautiful, it's Dr. Tabatha. I want to share something with you that I believe God is doing right now in women's health. We're in the middle of a massive movement and most people don't even know it. Every single day, 6,000 women in the U.S. enter menopause. That's over 2 million women a year, and by 2030, that's more than 1.2 billion women worldwide. So here's the thing, most of these women feel exhausted, bloated, anxious, disconnected from themselves, and the medical system is Doctors are handing out prescriptions and quick fixes, and no one is helping women heal from the root cause of their issues. That's where Fast to Faith coaches come in. As a certified coach, you'll be equipped to help midlife women balance their hormones, heal their gut, regain their energy, and reconnect their faith, the foundation that so many of us have been missing. And from a business standpoint, woo, this is one of the most lucrative untapped opportunities in the entire health coaching world. The global health coaching industry is expected to reach over $33 billion by 2023, and midlife women are the fastest-growing, highest-spending demographic in that space. Most importantly, these women stay with their coaches. They invest deeply because they are desperate for lasting transformation— body, mind, and spirit. So if you've been feeling that pull and that whisper that you're meant to do more, This is it. Now is the time to rise, to serve, and build a purpose-driven business that not only changes other women's lives but transforms your own in the process. Because when you help one woman heal, you help her family, her marriage, her faith, and her future. That's the ripple effect that we're creating with Fast to Faith. So join me, click the link to come watch this webinar. It might be the one thing that really moves the needle for you in this Next season. I can't wait to see you in there. Hi, I'm Dr. Tabatha, the Gutsy Gynecologist. I'm a triple board-certified OB-GYN and functional medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey, and I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. After caring for thousands of women, I've come to realize that your gut health determines your gyn health and your overall And it's a super gutsy thing for me to go against conventional gynecology practice to bring you the truth. No more Band-Aid medicine, ladies. We're talking root cause resolution on this show. So if you're struggling with hormone imbalance, weight gain, period issues, anxiety, insomnia, you name it, then you've come to the right place. And I want to be your gutsy gynecologist. So welcome.

Thank you.

Well, welcome back, ladies. This week we are mixing it up. I'm super excited about this episode because this is the first time I've done this. I am bringing on a patient and we are going to hear her story. We're going to hear from her what she has gone through in the past, I don't know, 5 months, something like that, right?

Right.

Thank you so much, Amy, for coming on and just sharing your story. I think it's super important for women to hear from other women, right? Because I can talk about stuff all day, but to hear women actually noticing changes and having transformations, like, that's where the money is, right?

Absolutely. No, I'm happy to help.

Thank you. I'm just going to read a couple of things I put in my notes the last time I saw you. This was kind of At the endpoint of you doing the Healthy Her program, I wrote, it's been really good. I can't believe how much I've learned, how much better I feel. I'm having such less joint pain, headaches, fatigue. I'm so glad I did this. I needed it and I was finally ready. I also figured out I was an emotional eater and no longer needed to reward myself with food. Using daily affirmations has helped a ton. I'm no longer a migraine person. It's so sad that none of my doctors ever told me gluten was the problem. So we need to unpack all this because that's pretty incredible, you know? And that was like 2 seconds of our conversation, but I want women to have what you have, you know, and also to understand that it's a journey. You know, it's not like you're bad one day and you're just all of a sudden better the next and then you're good to go, right? This is a lifelong process of changing your diet and lifestyle. But I just want to unpack this for everybody because I want to know how you went about it and how you got to feel so much better. So why did you initially seek me out and sign up for the Healthy Her program?

Well, I had had my annual physical and, you know, where they do all the bloodwork, and I've always had a low thyroid. And so, you know, it's something that we always check. I take medication for. And but I also had some— I don't know what the right word— disheartening liver results. And in talking to my medical doctor, my primary care physician, she had just indicated that, you know, it could be a lot of different things, but let's, you know, let's look into that a little bit. And so when we did, I really felt like it was something that I was doing to myself. So it was probably a combination of not eating correctly, You know, letting stress play into my life. And I needed to make a change. And I have been on every diet, just like every woman that's probably watching this will say the same thing. I've been on every diet— Weight Watchers, Nutrisystem, you know, Amy's, you know, made-up diet.

Tried everything.

And it would work for a while, but then, you know, the weight would always come back on. And so I just knew that I couldn't do it myself. I knew something was going on and I really felt— now I know that it was— I was addicted to sugar, but I knew that there was some compulsive behavior going on that I couldn't control it myself and I needed a different solution to what I had been doing for the last 30 years. And in finding you and your team helped me unpack, you know, I think that's a great word because there's so many different things going on. And the first of which was migraine. And, you know, I've suffered from migraines for 30 years and not one doctor has ever, ever brought up gluten. So this was the first discussion I had had on it. And it seems like such a simple activity, I guess. I mean, it might not be mentally, but to remove something, you know, from the equation, it's like, well, just remove the one thing. And it was amazing, the immediate results. of understanding what the root cause was. And I think that's kind of like, for me, that's been the moral of the story, is finding the root cause to thyroid, finding the root cause to migraines and to being overweight and to having compulsive eating behaviors. Finding the root cause for each of those enabled me to develop new strategies and new behaviors and ways to try to hold myself accountable, but I'll also say it's your team and yourself that helps me stay accountable.

Yeah, I think that's a huge piece of it. You know, we all have willpower and determination until the next cookie comes along.

Yes.

And then it's out the window, right? And all our intentions just get thrown out the window. So that's why I think the program is so beneficial because we are walking you and we're checking in with you and we're just holding your hand and making sure that you're changing your entire relationship with food, with your environment, with your life. You have— it has to be a shift in mindset. And so were you walking around thinking, I have an eating problem, I have an addiction, or were you totally unaware that food was kind of driving your life?

I kind of knew it because I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I didn't know what to do to fix it.

Yeah.

And in talking to, you know, Morgan from a nutrition standpoint, talking to Ashley from a health coach standpoint, we really dug into it. But I mean, but I also want to say, because being a woman, we are all multitaskers to the nth degree and we want to do 50 million things all at one time. And what I made a very conscious decision when I started this program to do one thing at a time.

Mm-hmm.

I wasn't going to say, okay, let's remove gluten and then let's not eat any more sugar and let's work out 5 times a week and, you know, let's do this and this. I said, let's pick one thing. And the first was gluten. And I kept a food diary, which, again, I'm doing things that I never thought I needed to do.

Right.

Never wanted to do. But, you know, Ashley would hold me accountable. Like, what are you writing in your journal? What did you tell yourself today? You know, what was your affirmation? And I am someone that didn't think that I needed that because, you know, I am woman and I can handle all these things and I have it all up in my head. And it's like, you know what? That was ridiculous thinking because just having— and I have my little book here.

Oh, good.

Just writing. You don't even have to write. It's not like writing, you know, a diary or a, you know, what you do for PhD papers. I forget the name of it, but anyway, it doesn't have to be a huge dissertation.

Yeah, yeah.

It could just be reminders to yourself of what you did today, what you ate today, and how you felt because it's so important to understand the action and then the consequence. So when you remove gluten, You know, and you replaced it with, you know, the nutritional values, you know, that Morgan helps you with, with the great recipes. How did you feel the next day? How did you sleep? And it's looking back and seeing that cause-effect relationship to know, okay, well, that worked, so I'm going to do that the next day. I'm going to make sure that I get my fiber and my protein and not have alcohol and things like that because it's really interesting to see the information. The next day you might be feeling lethargic, or I might have a sinus headache, or maybe I didn't sleep very well. And if you flip back to the page before and see what you did, there's always a cause and effect. And it was just so interesting, even though it's not rocket science, it's, it's a way to record what's happening in your life and understanding, I guess, the cause and effect. But again, I'll go back to one thing at a time. So it was gluten. And because I had fantastic recipes that were delicious and very flavorful, because I am— I love food in the sense I love it to have flavor and I want it to taste really good.

Yeah.

There were fantastic recipes to figure out how not to use gluten, you know? So I think that actually was much easier for me than what I had expected. But keeping the journal helped. Then the next part was the sugar part, you know, of understanding that I was addicted to sugar and diet pop was a huge culprit. But Ashley really helped me dig into why was I eating the things that I was eating because it was, you know, whether it was at night or you come home from a day at work and my issue was I felt food was a reward.

Mm-hmm.

So I've had a bad day. I deserve this, or this will make me feel better if I do that. And it's interesting because there's a lot of information that your team has that you can read. And because there's so many different— I don't know if disorder is the right word, but just behaviors. And it's so easy to identify, wow, I'm that, and I'm that, and I'm that.

Yeah.

But then, okay, it's like, okay, Ashley, I've read all this information, so how do I fix it? You know what I mean?

Right.

So I learned a ton of information that I didn't know before, but then I got the help that I needed on the strategies to apply every day that were reasonable, were achievable, because you don't want to set yourself up to fail because then you're just going to quit. But so, again, just really little bite-sized goals that were achievable allowed me to keep staying the course. And the minute you started to feel like you were falling off the course or falling back into a behavior, boy, just a 15-minute conversation with Ashley, you quick dive into it and, boy, you kind of get the reset that you need. Or you go back and you read your pages in your book.

Yes.

On when you felt good versus when maybe you didn't. And there's always a cause and effect. And it was like, Again, not rocket science, but that wasn't how I was managing it before. And that's the biggest difference and why I think this works versus all the other ones, because they're just kind of temporary.

Oh, that's so powerful. Yes, you are seeing your results in live time, like live-action time. It's like football replay, you know? They get to show the play 5 different ways right away and you can pivot and Change the call or whatever. And I remember when I was addicted to sugar, and I do believe you can be addicted to sugar just like drugs and alcohol. It is that potent. It hits those, you know, morphine receptors in our brain. Same with gluten. We have gluteomorphin reactions that cause this euphoric feeling of like, I feel good after I eat gluten. And that creates an addiction so that you're always wanting it more. I mean, the food in the break room in my office used to talk to me. If there was a box of donuts or a cake, literally my mind was thinking about it the entire day until I gave in and just ate the stupid donuts. And it's— I was addicted and I was like you. I had to log it and look to see, wow, I'm actually putting all of this stuff in my body mindlessly, not paying attention. And then when I removed it, how different I really felt. Like, that is so powerful and that is something anybody can just start doing on their own. So how long did it take you to notice that your headaches were no longer happening as often and you weren't as exhausted? Was it a couple of weeks? Like, what was the tipping point for you with the gluten?

Well, I would say it probably, like, by week 5 or 6, I really turned a corner because the first 3 weeks in your team prepared me for this. You know, you're kind of putting your body in shock because probably everything I was eating was gluten, you know what I mean? From the toast in the morning to the sandwich at lunch to the, you know, to the, to the sides at dinner, pasta, you know, at night. And your body says, what the heck are you doing to me? And so there is almost like a withdrawal period where I felt I felt everything they told me I would, you know, sometimes a little fuzzy and just weird. But again, you, you know, through your journal, you remind yourself that you're making a change and this is what I'm doing. And then all of a sudden, it was once you, you get through that one night through the journaling, I noticed that the headaches, you know, were almost immediately gone. The joint pain was immediately gone.

Yes.

And you just felt better. Like, again, I don't know, we women, I think we just get so ingrained in our habits and our beliefs and we know best. And it might sound reasonable, but when you actually go through it and you feel again the cause and effect yourself, you're like, I know you said that.

Mm-hmm.

But wow, now I'm actually feeling it. And it's like you have to You have to experience that, I guess, to believe it because, you know, people can say everything they want. I can hear everything I want, but I have to experience it to realize that it's actually true, at least for me. And I think a lot of us are like that. But once you realize the benefit, like, wow, I just feel better. So I'm going to keep, you know, keep the course. But I had an aha moment just this past week with you. where I was treating removing gluten like a diet.

Yeah.

Like, hey, I've been doing so good, I should have a cookie. So I fell back into actually 2 habits. One was I wasn't supposed to eat gluten and I chose to eat it, you know, with the cookie because of the flour. And I probably had, truth be told, more than one cookie. But then I was also reaching for something that I shouldn't, Because of, you know, I was treating food like a reward. That's exactly what I was doing. I was like— and treating gluten removal like a diet, which I shouldn't do. So I was like rewarding myself with a cookie and then all of a sudden— and I kind of did that for several weeks, not a lot, but obviously enough because I thought, well, it's just a little bit. It won't bother me.

Mm-hmm.

It did. And I went into a tailspin and I didn't really understand why. I thought maybe just normal life was creeping back in. And I'm so glad that I asked the question to your team, who then brought it to you, and you gave me, you know, the feedback that I needed to set me straight that you can't have gluten. Gluten isn't a part-time thing. You can't have gluten anymore. And it was like all of a sudden that really resonated with me. And it's like, well, no wonder then this started happening and this started happening. And, and that was my fault for not treating it for what it is. I mean, it's so different than anything I've ever done in my life before. It's not a diet, you know, it's a lifestyle change that you have to make permanent. It's not a temporary thing and you can't treat it like that. So again, new knowledge.

Right. And that's why I opened this whole podcast saying it is a journey because I've been on the same journey. You know, I'm just further along on it than you are, Amy, but we both have Hashimoto's thyroid disease. And that autoimmune attack is triggered by gluten. So every time we eat gluten, you're right, it puts us in a tailspin. Like, if I eat gluten, if I eat a bowl of cereal or something, I will be on the couch the entire day, depressed as all get-out, not wanting to talk to anybody. My back pain will come back and I will be absolutely miserable. And It took me so many tries to figure that piece out. So I get excited when I can share that with somebody and you can learn it, you know, in 4 months where it took me 4 years. Like, it took me so many painstaking times of relapsing, essentially, and going back to gluten and going, yeah, it's not a big deal. It's just some bread. It's just some cereal. It was like— Always justifying it and suffering those consequences. And it had a huge effect on my relationships and my ability to work and to be there for my kids and had a back surgery that, in essence, I didn't— shouldn't have needed. You know, so looking back, I'm just like, I have to share this information with people. And, you know, for everybody listening, if you don't have an autoimmune condition, maybe gluten doesn't affect you to this degree, but unfortunately— Unfortunately, gluten has been so genetically modified in this country that our body doesn't even recognize it as the normal wheat food that it essentially was when God created it. It has been so changed that our body thinks it's foreign and it attacks it every time we eat. And that just starts this inflammatory cascade. It goes throughout our body. It causes joint pain and fatigue and headaches and eczema. And everything.

Well, and I think it's important to note not only the physical effects, but you just mentioned it, depression. So I think there was the learning of the mental hormonal effects that gluten has and how immediate it could be. I just thought I was having a bad day. Like, oh, I was just overly emotional in whatever emotion I was having. And I was like, wow, this is just not me. I'm like, okay, maybe tomorrow will be better. And then it's like, It just wasn't going away. And introducing that gluten was so immediate. Like, I would have thought, like other things, you know, it takes the weight a little while to come back on, you know, type thing, but this is immediate.

Right. And some people, because they're living that lifestyle of eating the standard American diet, gluten with every meal, you know, you're having some kind of baked good or cereal or bread for breakfast, you're having sandwiches at lunch, you're having pastas at dinner, and more bread. And so it's gluten, gluten, gluten all day long, not to mention it's in salad dressings and all the other hidden thickeners and sauces. So we're getting glutened all day long. And so you're living a life of chronic inflammation, so you don't even know what's making you feel bad until you actually clean it up. Then it's so much more obvious, like you said, like, wow. All of a sudden, I was doing great and all of a sudden I just like backslid. And that's what I love is like if you clean things up, you heal your gut, you clean up your diet, you get rid of these triggers, it's so much more obvious when you do go back, you know, to your old ways and then you can course-correct quicker. You can be like, oh, took my hand off, you know, that direction. I got to go back and course-correct. And so you have to give yourself grace and just say, yep, learned something on that one big time.

Yeah.

And then, yes, then you know going forward, okay, this cookie, it might ruin me the next day. Is it worth it? Is it not? And I will be honest, I've had those discussions with myself and sometimes I do choose to eat it knowing that I'm going to pay the consequences. And for some people, they're lucky enough that they can do like Once a month and they're good. But for others like us who have a sugar addiction history and emotional eating history, that can be a slippery slope back into bad habits and bad behaviors.

Yeah.

So for me, I don't tread those waters. I don't go there. I don't dip my foot in the pool once a month. I literally avoid it. That is my non-negotiable. It's like my 10 Commandments for myself. I don't eat gluten. Done. You know? And that has been the game changer for my life, and it sounds like it is for yours as well.

Absolutely. And you had mentioned something that was part of my journey as well, is the whole leaky gut thing. And you helped me fix that because that probably was the first thing, actually, was leaky gut, you know, then gluten. But those I could kind of do hand in hand, you know, with some of the supplements and things I was taking. But, again, something that you saw on the news, you see it on Facebook, You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But once you do like the food sensitivity test and the stomach test, you've got science. And I am someone that likes data. Like, I need you to prove it to me. And you did.

Yeah.

You know, with the data that said, yeah, this is making it into your bloodstream and this and this. And I'm like, yep, that's what I was eating. That's what I was eating. That's what I was eating. So it was real. Like, you know, science is real. And that's another benefit of your program. One, you have the experience because, like you said, it took you years where it's taken me months. But that's what I am— the advantage you're giving me by joining the program is that you're giving me your experience and I most likely, you know, am not waiting years to get the results that you did and I can learn from your mistakes. And I have resources with you and your team to help me, you know, get on track, stay on track, and build strategies to hold myself accountable. But the leaky gut, you know, is real. And once you fix that, that helps as well.

Yeah. And it's so incredible that we all have such unique microbiomes and gut function happening in our bodies. Like, we can't just look at somebody and assume their gut is functioning a certain way or they have a certain bacteria living in there and they don't have yeast overgrowth. Like, I love the data too, because sometimes I'm surprised. Like, I'm at a point where most of the time I know what it's going to say, but I still get surprised sometimes. And so that testing is really important to do because it's not always about cleaning up your diet. Sometimes we do actually have to kill things off and intervene and replace enzymes and support bile production and do things that we wouldn't know to do otherwise, right? So, yeah, you're a living testament that getting the data is the game changer because otherwise you're just guessing and oftentimes wasting more time like I did for years.

Well, and I wouldn't know how to fix it.

Yeah, exactly.

One thing, we have the data, but we tend to— and we women do as well— we tend to self-diagnose and self-medicate and, and, and things that we shouldn't do, but we think we know best, right? Um, but, you know, tapping into your experience and helping us with that data, then, you know, create that, that roadmap is, is what really helped me in understanding what I was— what was happening, you know, because it's important to know how you got there and, and, and why your stomach and your enzymes and, and, you know, yeast overgrowth is happening. Because again, it comes back to kind of a cause and effect, right? Everything, you know, every action has a consequence. And, you know, those are words for me to live by anyway. And like you said, is it worth it? You know, that's something that is probably my next part of my roadmap is the non-negotiable. Like, I've really got to now, like, come up with— you're looking at the buffet table, let's say, and What's okay and what's non-negotiable and just walk away and be done.

Mm-hmm.

But because I'd disconnected with sugar, for the most part, you know, I think it was the behavior and the food as a reward that was causing me to have that cookie, not that I— I didn't need the sugar anymore because that actually takes care of itself when you're on this journey. You don't crave the sugar anymore, which I never thought in a million years would be possible.

Right.

I'm embarrassed to say that, but it's— oh.

Yep. Yeah, exactly. It's freedom, right?

Yes. And it doesn't taste the same, you know, because you, like, you finally say, oh, I'll have a little ice cream, or I'll do this or that. And you're like, you know what? It really wasn't worth it because it didn't taste as good as I remember it or didn't taste as good as I wanted it to. So it's kind of disappointing. But it's good in a way, you know?

Exactly. So what were some of the key steps that led you to be able to understand this emotional eating piece of it and, you know, not rely on food for your reward? Because I will tell you, I hear this from women all the time. I deserve a drink at the end of the day. I had a stressful day. I deserve that dessert. And we really have had it brainwashed and ingrained in us as women. Like, this is all those diets again. Like, if you starve yourself all week, you get a treat, you get a reward. And it— we should not be thinking about it that way. So how did you flip the script?

One, it was writing down as an affirmation every day that food is not a reward. It was like, pick a different reward. You don't need to use food as that reward. So, you know, yeah, you might deserve something, but is it a walk around the block? Is it an hour by yourself reading your book? Is it, you know, a yoga session? I mean, do something for yourself, but it doesn't have to be food. And you— but you really have to put some thought into that each time. Like, let's say after dinner, you know, maybe the 2 or 3 hours before you go to bed, are you bored? Is that why you want to eat?

Mm-hmm.

You know, are you stressed or are you thinking about something else that's making you want to eat? Like, You really have to kind of root cause why you think you want that and then find a different reward for yourself.

Yeah. Oh my gosh, so good. That is really important because just telling you, like, go for a walk instead, that might not fill your cup. That might not feel like a reward to you. So you are right. You have to figure out, why do I even feel this and desire this in the first place? Is this just a bad habit that I'm in? Like, I don't even think it's super super mindless? I just grab the popcorn after dinner. I just fill up the wine glass. There's no thought behind it. Or is it addictions? Is it cravings from yeast overgrowth that we need to kill off? It's a very complex thing that's happening in your body and in your brain. And so we have to do some analyzing and some—

It's really like self-reflection. You really do have to dig deep to figure out what's driving that. And like you said, All of us have different reasons of why, but we also have different needs for how to fill that cup. You know, what you need and what I need are two different things, but it's still an idea. You know, like, I miss the wine glass, you know, as silly as that might sound, but then I can put in my bubbly water, you know, that has no aspartame or artificial colors and sugar and things like that. And I can pour it into a wine glass if that's what I think that I need. You know, so there's alternatives, but you have to investigate and seek them on your own.

And yeah, exactly.

You've got to do the work. I mean, it is hard work.

Yes. Or do the Healthy Her program and we'll walk you through it like you did, you know? And I just, I love Hearing that you've made such big shifts because it is about changing your mindset, your relationships, your attitude, and your lifestyle. It's not just the diet. I mean, if you always focus on the diet, you will always fail, right? Like, that's what I think probably one of the biggest lessons you learned, right?

Yeah. Well, and like, even today I'm making like a smoothie That's something that I would never have made before. I mean, one of the recipes, you know, it's got a little bit of fruit, spinach, coconut milk, you know, the condensed, you know, with the fat, and an avocado. And you're thinking, oh, goodness, you know? But, again, listening to your coaches and saying, you know, this is a really good, nutritious, and it's the right fuel for your body. And Ashley telling me, you'll actually feel full longer. And she's right, you know, and it actually tasted really good. I'm like, okay, you know, they haven't let me down yet. I'm going to try this recipe. And it's really good and you do feel full longer and you're not snacking. And I don't know, you just— it's— you've— the program gives you the resources that you need, but you have to do the work and work the program. You know, and it's— I know it's so cliché, but I'm just here to tell you that I was probably the biggest naysayer. Never wrote anything down. I can handle everything. And you know what? I can't. And I needed help, and you and your team did that for me and are doing that for me because I'm still on the program.

I love that. That is so amazing. And I'm so proud of you for making the decision to invest in yourself because It is a big deal, you know? And I think that can be probably the hardest part for people is just accepting the fact that they are worth not only the financial investment, but the time and attention to themselves and putting in that self-care piece. I think, you know, tell me how you were feeling about all of that because I get women who They are still stuck in the excuses of, I have to take care of my kids and my business, my job is too busy and I don't have time. And it's like, you're going to pay now or you're going to pay later. So why not enjoy your life and pay now? That's what I think.

Well, and I think it's like anything. Everyone has to reach that point where they're just done. I've hit a wall and, you know what, I can't do it anymore. And you hope you catch them before that, but I think that's where I was. I'm like, because I realized I couldn't do it myself. But then I also realized, because of everything you just said, I couldn't take on some big program again. I needed— I decided to do one thing at a time, you know? And that's what helped me because you, you know, your life is busy, your job is busy, your home life is busy. But I could do one thing at a time, you know? And if you create a little roadmap for yourself and just do one thing at a time— when I started, I didn't worry about, like I said earlier, exercising, you know, 5 days a week. I just worked on gluten, removing gluten and finding recipes, making sure I had the groceries, and having fun with that, and then letting the rest of life happen. And you'll find that by just doing one little mountain at a time will fix some of those other things because you do have a better mental state. You're less stressed because you feel better, and so you handle your stress better. And maybe it's not even as stressful as you thought because you're just like, you know— the other coaching advice that Ashley and I talk about is, you know, it's not mine to solve. We women like to take on the whole world's problems and solve everyone's problems.

Yep.

Because that's what we do. But you know what? It's not mine to solve. You know, don't take on 100 other things. Is that something that you should be involved in? You know, do you need to spend your time and effort on it? Is it a nice-to-have or a must-have?

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

But it's a lot of work. I'm making it sound easier than what it is, but you just got to do the work and use your resources.

But it's so rewarding. Like, you've come so far and you feel so much better.

Yes. Yes.

I hear this every single day, and that's what keeps me going, is I get to hear all the transformations and the women just saying, oh my gosh, I had no idea. Thank you. And so that keeps me fueled and keeps me going. And for you, it's going to be like, I feel better and better, and you're almost aging in reverse. So you're slowing down the inevitable because I find like menopause is this huge tipping point for women. Like, we used to get away with eating like we did when we were 20, and, you know, we used to be able to just exercise a little more and lose that 5 pounds or go on a crash diet and fit in our dress. And then when you get into menopause, those tricks don't work anymore.

That's a whole— that's a whole nother layer.

Yeah, yeah, it's a whole nother layer, and it all just comes crashing down. And so everything that you've kind of been ignoring and stuffing away all of this time just bubbles up to the surface because of this hormone shift. And it's like, oh, wow, now I got a bunch of stuff I got to deal with. Now my gut is a mess, my adrenals are tanked, my hormones are tanked.

Yep.

And I can't stop eating sugar, you know? And so I just love seeing women make this transition when they are hand— Like taking care of all the pieces of the puzzle. Even though you said you did one thing at a time, like, you did all the testing. I got to show you, here's what's going on. Here's your problems. You have major systemic inflammation, insulin resistance, menopause, Hashimoto's autoimmune condition. You said you had, you know, came to me with fatty liver. Like, there was a lot to unpack.

Mm-hmm.

But if you just take it One day at a time, one step at a time. Gosh, you said in 5 or 6 weeks your world was shifting. Like, that's incredible. And I want that for everybody listening who's like, yes, that's me. It's doable. You can change. You can actually feel good, especially in menopause. So, oh my gosh.

Well, the other thing too is, is Ashley, yourself, and Morgan all said this. is give yourself grace. So if you've had a bad day or you fell off the wagon, you know what? It doesn't matter. Just get back on the next day.

Yes, you have to begin again.

Yeah, don't beat yourself up. It's over with. Move on. And you can use that same logic with a lot of things in your life. But, you know, especially, let's say, with, you know, your food and your behaviors, then just start again the next day and Write it down. Tell yourself what you're going to do or what you're not going to do. And it's great because, like I said, I go back to my book and read because I don't write a dissertation like I talked about. I just write little bullet points of what I did or how I felt because of that. If I decided to have a drink, how did I feel the next day? How did I sleep that night? And chances are there's going to be a relationship. And like you said, you have to decide, is it worth it?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. And only we can, you know, only I can make my own decisions, you know, to decide that. But at least you know what the trigger is. So I feel like I've built a book of triggers and behaviors, and it's making that playbook, like you said, and, you know, moving those levers.

You finally understand yourself. Yeah. You know what makes you tick and what makes you function and what makes you break down. And that's invaluable. Like, that's going to carry you through the rest of your life because once you know that, like I said, you can just course-correct much quicker because we all get mindless. We all go on vacation. We all get caught up in our careers. We all get caught up in our lives. But now you're going to have something that quickly pulls you back in and says, oh, wait a second. I know that pattern. I remember that pattern in my book.

Yeah.

5 nights of drinking alcohol leads to this.

Yeah.

Oh, I just gotta cut back on the alcohol for a while and you'll understand yourself so much better. Like, I really didn't know my body or understand my body before I went through all of this. And I don't think most women do. You know, we think we're listening to our body, right?

But, but— And it was, it was that, but I didn't know what to do about it? Because I don't have your education and your background and your experience. It's like, I recognized I had some really poor behaviors, but it's like, how do I stop wanting to treat myself with food at night because I had a bad day? It's like, so didn't, you know, 5 billion other people. You know, how do you stop that? And that's, you know, the strategies, you know, that are available through this program and just talking to, like, Ashley. I have a call with her tomorrow. to talk about the fact that I am going on vacation next week and I do want to bring— and I want to write down, you know, some strategies so I don't overdo anything and still enjoy everything I want to enjoy, but maybe, you know, create some boundaries, I guess. Maybe that's a good word.

I think that's a great point because I have done all of the heavy lifting, all of the research, all Thousands of hours studying and learning all of the stuff and figuring out how it all works together or how all the pieces of the puzzle move and connect. And for a layperson, that is really challenging. I see my mother try to do that. She's always listening to a new podcast and always watching a new summit and trying to figure out her chronic issues. And it's You can go down some major rabbit holes. And I get patients like that who've done every test online, like, here's my 5 different stool tests, here's my food sensitivity test, but they didn't actually have a guide walking them through with what to do with those results, so they didn't actually get any improvement. Or if they did, it was temporary because it's like whack-a-mole medicine. You hit that one and the next thing pops up because you're not actually— Figuring out the root causes like we've been talking about. So, yeah, I don't want to brag on myself, but I do think it's important if you really need to make this shift, you need a guide or a whole team working with you, or otherwise you're just kind of guessing and going down rabbit holes. So thank you for that important point.

And just to follow up on that, I was telling my husband last night that Because I think, you know, our spouses usually think, okay, this is the next fad, you know, this is the next diet.

Yeah.

But I said, you know what? When I was telling him about the correlation of gluten to depression and serotonin and things like that, I said, any feedback that I've ever gotten from you and your program, I can go Google and then I find, you know, 5 million pieces of scientific data on it. You know what I mean? That supports Everything that you're saying. So if there are naysayers, all the information is out there. Once you've pointed me in the right direction, it was like, wow, I had no idea that gluten and depression were that closely linked. And, and I bet, you know, then you layer on menopause, you know, how many women are struggling with that. And I'll say, you know, just one simple removal of your diet would have dramatic effect on your life. And it's not as hard as it sounds because you have the tools to help you through it.

Yeah. And think about how many millions of women are given antidepressants for that symptom, and those antidepressants are causing new symptoms. They're ruining your libido. Your libido is gone on an antidepressant. You're gaining at least 5 to 10 pounds on antidepressants. So you think you were depressed before? You're going to really be depressed. After you get on that in menopause, it's like the absolute worst thing that we can do for women. Yet that is the standard of care. That is like from the North American Menopause Society. First line of treatment for menopause is an antidepressant. And it makes me angry.

Yes.

It just— it took me probably 5 different tries over the course of a decade to get off antidepressants. It's that difficult for some people. Like, every time I tried to wean off, I had major disequilibrium. I couldn't think straight. My brain didn't work. I had to literally wean myself down to, like, kernels or grains inside the capsules to the point where I could get off that drug.

Mm-hmm.

And it's just sad that that is what we're doing in this country when it comes to women. And I know that you've had this struggle and here The majority of the problem was the gluten.

Yes. Yeah, which is just— it's so disappointing but yet exciting at the same point, you know, that it wasn't a discussion I was having before, but something so simple can have such a huge impact on physical and mental health, you know?

Well, Amy, I am so grateful that you shared your story with everybody because I know there's women listening going, oh my gosh, that's me. She's me. And There's hope? Like, wait, what? I don't have to be on these antidepressants? I don't have to gain weight and not love my husband and just put up with these migraines and be exhausted? Like checking out of life, essentially.

Right.

You don't have to live that way. And Amy is absolute proof. So I am so grateful for you sharing your story publicly because it's really important for women to have hope.

I agree. I mean, it's like not participating in life should be a non-negotiable for all of us, you know, and then seek, you know, a program like yourself and your staff. Because again, it's like the complete package, you know, with the team that you have. They are just so supportive, so knowledgeable, and they've been there and done that too, just like yourself. So it's not like they're trying to read from a coaching book, you know. They know exactly how you feel and they know the strategies to that help, you know, to get you back on track to where you need to go. So thank you.

Oh my goodness. Well, you are so awesome, and I just can't wait to see you just keep on improving and growing and doing all the amazing things you're doing. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

You are most welcome. It was nice to see you again.