#254. Why Christians Struggle With Wealth (And How to Break Free)

Hey beautiful, it's Dr. Tabatha. I want to share something with you that I believe God is doing right now in women's health. We're in the middle of a massive movement and most people don't even know it. Every single day, 6,000 women in the U.S. enter menopause. That's over 2 million women a year, and by 2030, that's more than 1.2 billion women worldwide. So here's the thing, most of these women feel exhausted, bloated, anxious, disconnected from themselves, and the medical system is Doctors are handing out prescriptions and quick fixes, and no one is helping women heal from the root cause of their issues. That's where Fast to Faith coaches come in. As a certified coach, you'll be equipped to help midlife women balance their hormones, heal their gut, regain their energy, and reconnect their faith, the foundation that so many of us have been missing. And from a business standpoint, woo, this is one of the most lucrative untapped opportunities in the entire health coaching world. The global health coaching industry is expected to reach over $33 billion by 2023, and midlife women are the fastest-growing, highest-spending demographic in that space. Most importantly, these women stay with their coaches. They invest deeply because they are desperate for lasting transformation— body, mind, and spirit. So if you've been feeling that pull and that whisper that you're meant to do more, This is it. Now is the time to rise, to serve, and build a purpose-driven business that not only changes other women's lives but transforms your own in the process. Because when you help one woman heal, you help her family, her marriage, her faith, and her future. That's the ripple effect that we're creating with Fast to Faith. So join me, click the link to come watch this webinar. It might be the one thing that really moves the needle for you in this next— Season. I can't wait to see you in there. You are going to be so glad you tuned into this episode. This might just be the game changer for your entire life. We are going to be breaking some strongholds in your mind. We're going to be breaking some generational chains and curses because we are going to be debunking myths around money and our relationship with money and God and how he wants us to use it. And for some of you, you might have Done this work, but for a lot of you, I know that this is really a stronghold for you. It keeps you stuck. It kept me stuck for a long time. And so I'm just really excited to have this conversation today. And my guest is an absolute powerhouse of a woman, and she has so much wisdom. She is an incredible pastor. She tried to live a life of poverty because she thought that's what she was supposed to do. And then she had an awakening. And God really helped her see that when good people have more money, they can do more good. And she is sharing with us all the wisdom around what God says about money and how he wants us to use it. Let me just say that Rachel Wortman, she is a biblical wealth architect with decades of ministry experience and years of running successful businesses. And I'm talking, they're doing revenue in the B's, billions of dollars. So she knows what it's like to not have money and what it's like to have money. So she helps Christians create spiritual impact on the world around them by helping them align their lives and businesses with the word of God. Let's dive in. Please listen to this entire episode. If you need to pause it and come back, that's the beauty of the podcast. You can totally do that. But this is a really important episode. Like, there's just so much to unpack here. I'm super excited for this conversation. So let's get into it. Welcome, Rachel, to the Welcome to the Fast to Faith podcast. I'm so excited you are here.

I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Yes, your book was a game changer for me because I'm just going to be super honest. I have had all kinds of money issues, limiting beliefs, weird relationships with money, and it was definitely passed down generationally. So I want to talk about that a little bit today. You bring so much freedom with your book, The Expansion Mandate, that I want to dive in and just dissect it for women. So I'm really excited about this. I just want to be honest about the fact that one of the first conversations women have when they come to my virtual practice and talk with my team is about money.

Hmm.

They have to invest in themselves to reclaim their health. And it breaks my heart that women say, I can't afford that, I can't possibly do that, or Well, insurance doesn't cover it, and so they stay stuck. And I lived that life for a long time. I thought the only way to practice medicine was, you know, through the shackles of insurance and that type of thing. And what I realized was money is just a tool. And one of the things, if we were at a retreat together and you said this was so good, you said the more money I have, I just think of them as little soldiers. Every dollar is a little soldier that I can send out to further God's kingdom and to do his work. So I would love for you to just unpack, like, where does that mindset even come from and how can we get it?

Yeah, I think it's so important because most of us grow up using money and not really thinking about money. You know, we interact with it all the time, but we don't stop and think about what is it here for? Why do I have the amount that I have? What would my life be like if I had less or more? Like, we just don't engage with those deeper critical thoughts around money. And I get it because it's, it's almost like just drinking water. We're gonna do it. It's a part of our life. We don't stop to really think about how important it is to our physical health. And so I think when we slow down enough to really like approach money, not from just the budget standpoint, but from the philosophy around it, from our, like what it's there for, why God created it, then we start going a little bit deeper to see, well, a lot of the patterns that we have with our money really were passed down to us. It is, Just like with our health, right? It's what we saw our parents doing, and that becomes normal, and we don't often stop to question it. And so I love the idea of assigning every dollar a job and giving every dollar to our name a task to help our life be better.

Mm-hmm.

Sometimes the task of those dollars is to fuel our health. Sometimes it is to have fun and to, you know, give us, make a core memory or do something that's really special, or Christmas morning, something like that. Sometimes our dollars are for safety. And they pay our bills. They, you know, sit in an account ready in case something happens to protect us. And so when we start to think about the money in our hand like a tool, like a tool belt, you know, our wallet is like a tool belt. And then inside of that belt, we've got screwdrivers, hammers, wrenches. We've got these different tools. They all look the same in the sense that they're all a tool, but they have different purposes, different functions. So I love to imagine all the money in my hand like that. Some goes out into the future to create, you know, investments for me. Some is protecting me in the savings account. Some is, you know, fueling our life. And then my favorite part of money is the money that's assigned to have fun, because that's— that just makes life a little bit better too and keeps it from being, you know, kind of boring and, and sad when we think about budgeting and all that.

Well, you said something really important. You said that God gave us money, and I think that right there is mind-blowing for a lot of people because I know I was raised to believe that money was the root of all evil and that you shouldn't have it. Like, I was raised that you give it away as soon as you get it. You can't keep it. Like, it's going to make you a bad person, especially if you try and accumulate it. I would love for you to speak on that a little bit more because I think there's a lot of people who have this scarcity mindset, like, I need to hold on to it or more isn't going to come. And it really does. keep them so stuck, right?

It does. You know, I like to think of money— money, it has no moral value of itself. It is really just paper, or it's a number in a bank account. It is not inherently good or inherently bad. Money amplifies whatever is in the heart of the person who's holding it. And so if we have good things in our heart, money goes to do good in the world. And if we have greed or darkness in our heart, It goes to amplify that. And I, when I wrote The Money Mandate, my question that kind of sparked the book, why do we have to live with money? It feels like one of those things you can't live with it. You can't live without it. You know, it's like all of us. I mean, I think the statistics say 73% of people say money and finances is their number one stressor in life. So that is almost everyone. And I would guess the other, whatever that is, 27% also feels that it's stressful, but maybe not the number one. And so I wanted to ask God that question. Why do we live with money? Why did you create this system? Because I also kind of had thought that it was, um, developed by the devil or it was, you know, just sort of like the world's solution. But when I started looking at the scriptures and going back to Genesis, I started realizing, oh, currency in the, the idea of the economy was one of God's solutions to sin entering into the world and needing to be able to worship God and give a sacrifice and have something of value. To give to the Lord. That all happened right outside the Garden of Eden in the story with Cain and Abel and with Adam and Eve. And honestly, it may have happened before in the garden, but we didn't really— it's not recorded. But God began to show, look, some things are more valuable to me than others. And by doing that, he created this desire in the hearts of man to have things that are more valuable than others, that some things are more important to us. In my opinion, it's a divine setup so that we can actually offer something to worship God that actually costs us something that's valuable, because that's what God was gonna do with Jesus. He was going to give something that was the most valuable to him, his Son, to come and die on the cross. And so, it is this beautiful exchange that if we don't have something valuable, how can we enter into true worship?

Ooh!

So, yes, of course, right? Of course, the enemy has come in and done his thing and polluted money and create— I mean, of course, that's true. And I'm not trying to say that that's not a factor. But I do wanna say that, you know, in 1 Timothy where we talk about money being a root of evil, it is a root of evil. It is not the root of evil. And in as many times as Jesus warns about money, he talks about the possibilities about money. Like so many more times he talks about how to steward your resources, how to partner your finances with God so much more than he talks about the dangers. So I always, you know, in The Money Mandate, I struggled cuz I thought, I know some people need to hear about the dangers. There are things that can happen negatively in your life when you just pursue greed at all costs, and you let that— it's really like the spirit of mammon in us. That's what Jesus calls it. But for the most of us, we're actually on the other side, limiting ourselves out of fear that we might disappoint God. We're holding ourselves back out of fear that we might be partnering with this demonic system that, you know, called finance that the enemy created. And if we can evaluate it honestly and take a new look, we can say, okay God, so you've put something in my hand that cost me something So that I can worship you, I can offer to you, I can sacrifice you. And that is a pure gift from my heart. So that's the way that I choose to look at it. It has helped me so much to like bring balance to what is typically a very out-of-balance thing in our lives.

Oh, I felt all of that. You're giving me goosebumps. Like, that is so deep and profound. And I truly believe, like, if it doesn't feel uncomfortable, we aren't giving enough, you know? And I hear a lot of people Especially in the church space, like, well, I can't really afford to give right now, and so I'm gonna wait until I get a bonus or whatever. And God is asking us to give when it's uncomfortable. And what you're saying is that is a true testament to our faith, to loving him, and to believing that he's going to take care of us. I think that it's just— you gotta completely flip the script of how you're doing stuff, right? Like, and that was one thing that I was taught growing up is you give even when you don't have, and God will continue to provide. So I do believe that and understand that, but I've had to really struggle with the idea of accumulating and using it for good and to further his kingdom and to take care of my health and to have fun and, and those types of things. So I just want to read— I'm gonna have to put my glasses on because I'm 50 now. So I'm gonna read something out of your book, The Expansion Mandate. I love this. When God invites us into his promise, he takes on the obligation of the fulfillment. Our job is to stay close to him, allow him to grow us, and do what he says. He takes care of the rest. God has made vows to you. Like, I put an exclamation point there. He has contractually obligated himself to you in the most glorious way. He saw the future you and committed himself to helping you become that person, taking on all the cost of your transformation. Your promised land is guaranteed and insured through him. That just blew my mind because what I realized was I don't need to know where the money's coming from or how I'm gonna pay to get things done. I just need to trust that he's calling me to take care of my health and we're gonna figure it out, or grow this business and we're gonna figure it out. The resources are going to come to me because he has vowed to do that for me. And it was like, wait a second, I'm always thinking about the vows I need to make to him and how I need to take care, you know, give to him and And you just flipped the script on me. I would love for you to talk about this a little bit more.

Yeah, I just think that God is— because he loves us so much and he is looking at our life from the beginning to the end, you know, he is not drawing a little marker on our timeline of saying from 40 to 45. He's not quantifying small parts of our life and saying, this is who you are. He's looking at from the moment we were conceived to the moment we breathe our last in our earthly body, and he has committed himself to every moment of that. And So that's why when he looks into our future, because he can already see it, right? He, he looks into our future and says, this is where I want you to go, but I know you can't get there without me. I know you need me in every moment of every day from here until then to really be able to become that kind of person. And so then, because he sees us in our weakness and because he sees us in our brokenness, I believe he does contract himself to us and he says, look, I'm committed. For you to become this person that I dreamed of you being and being with you in the journey. And so much of what we miss, I think, as Christians is we really fixate on the end goal, this arrival moment that we think once all of this happens, we're good, we're golden. And it's, you know, and we don't have to think about it. We don't have to worry. We don't have to stress anymore. And the problem with that belief is that that strips dependence of God. out of the equation. That if I can somehow arrive where I don't need the Lord to help me in these ways, then what is our faith? And our faith is a relationship with Jesus. And so we have to kind of shift from this idea that all these things have to happen for me so that I can just arrive and be the best version of myself, and shift to, but God is with me in every version of myself. In this moment right now, I may not be able to carry the calling that he's given to me. I may not have perfect health yet. I may not, you know, I may still be needing something, but I'm not at a deficit because where I am today, I have the same access to God, and he is still available to me in the same way that he would be if everything was where I'm building towards it to go. I love this idea that we find him in the here and now as he is creating the type of person within us who can be healthy, who can be strong, who can be mentally sound, who can be be a good steward of our resources and really fulfill our calling. And he journeys with us every step of the way. And because he knows that we are broken people, he has given himself to us to help pick up the lion's share. You know, that's what Jesus means when he says you're— the burden is easy and the yoke is light. It's— that's a picture of 2 oxen yoked together in this wooden harness, and Jesus taking like the bigger share of it. You know, that all the heavy lifting is on his shoulders, and we get to kind walk alongside of him and get all the benefits of in that partnership. So that's kind of how I feel like if we can shift our mentality to understand who God has made himself to be for us, we can start showing up again in our life. We can start standing on our 2 feet and saying, God, you're with me in this moment. You're building me to that, but you are equally with me right here.

Oh yes. And what breaks my heart is when I see women who, they have these dreams that God has put in their hearts and they know they're called for more, but they are stuck in their physical ailments or, you know, whatever their body is struggling with, and they are afraid to really tackle that and focus on them because they're like, I need to be over here focusing on this. I need to be running my church or running my homeschooling or this company or whatever it is. And They're really living out of alignment and not trusting what God has planned for them. Something else you talk about in the book is like, the promise is there, but it's not going to happen until God has really molded you into the person he needs you to be to fill that promise, right? So you're right, it's a process, it's a journey, and he's along the whole way with you. So I would love for you to talk about— you talk about the battle. For your promise, the battle to the promise, the battle at the promise, and the battle in the promise. Like, let's talk about this journey and how money plays a role in all 4 of those parts of your journey.

That's a great question. Nobody's ever asked me that before. I love that. Um, yeah, okay. So I really— and I just want to echo what you were saying about the process of who we're becoming, because We are designed as people to live from a place of overflow. And when we are not filled in ourself, we cannot overflow. So we live tipping our cup, we live out of balance, we live, you know, striving and all these things that Jesus came to solve for us. And so I do think that's why he does wait until we become that full cup, whatever that looks like. So in the different battles that we go through, I'm a firm believer that every single one of us is fighting these battles as we go towards fulfilling our promise. lives. And how money plays a role in that is really to help us again learn who God is and become truly dependent on him. Because if our goal, and if his goal for us, is to live from a place of overflow, then we have to be settled, right? And you can't pour— you can't overflow from a tipped cup. It has to be flat on the table. And so we have to have that foundational stuff fixed within us, in our mindset, in our beliefs, in our finances. If we for example, like heavily extended in debt, it's going to be really hard to fulfill God's calling on our life because we're living yesterday. You know, everything we're taking from tomorrow to pay off yesterday, and it's— we're out of balance. And so it's really hard, for example. And we could, you know, talk about that extensively. But when we come to the 4 battles, to me, I feel like the first battle, this battle for the promise, is the, the fight that we have to believe that God loves us That he has something good in store for us, that he is who he said he is, that he is a promise keeper. And for many of us, we never actually win that battle. That's where we stop, because mentally and emotionally, we just keep listening to the lies of the enemy. We just keep listening to the things our parents had said or a neighbor had said, those daggers that come in our heart, and we don't really ever win that battle. So when it comes to our finances, we stay in those rhythms of have a lot of personal debt. We don't—

we—

it doesn't matter to us because we don't value ourselves enough to prepare for our future, right?

Yeah.

So once we kind of get out of that battle and we have established, okay, I am gifted, I might not know what that gifting is, I am called, I might not know what I'm called to, but I believe inside of me there's something there that God has put, then that's amazing. You're from battle 1 and you're going into that battle to the promise. And in that one There is this wilderness season that we go through where everything we believe gets tested. And Jesus had to do this, and we have to do this. It is stressful. We often find ourselves in very lean financial places because if we can cover all of our expenses all the time with excess, we don't always get to see the real state of our heart. You know, sometimes Wow. the Lord will pull our finances back so that our heart can be revealed. And because he says where your treasure is, your heart is also. So there is this sort of supernatural connection between our heart, the state of our spirit, and our finances. And God, I think he does that sometimes. He adjusts the flow of our finances to help us see what's going on. So that second battle is really about dependence. It's about internal fortitude. It's about the ability to keep showing up and become, right? To let go of the stuff that entangles, to drop the toxic relationships, To finally make peace with somebody that we've been, you know, struggling to forgive. That's what happens in that second battle. And when we're going to the promise, we see where we're headed, we're getting clarity as we go. And when we come out of that one, now we're in that battle that's at the promise, and there's so much risk in that point, right? That's the part where we have to decide, am I really believing in this thing God has called me to? Am I believing it enough to put my own money on the line? And that is so— we could do a whole episode talking about the dangers of that and all the challenges of that.

Yes.

But I've been there, you know. you know, where you look at these ideas you feel like God has given you, they cost a lot of money, and you're going, okay, I either believe this or I don't. And they don't always work out, you know, it doesn't always happen as we want. But when we're in that battle at the promise, again, our finances are being tested because we are having to decide what is the most valuable thing to us. Is it obedience, or is it this pile of cash that I've got in my savings account? Is it following through with what the Lord's told me to do, or is it— you know, of course I want to say we want to Godly wisdom. Godly wisdom protects our future. God is for a retirement plan, all of those things. So I'm not saying we just dump out the bank account in hopes that, you know, but there are moments he calls us where he asks us to give that feels like it extends beyond comfort level. And then once we get from that battle at the promise, now we're in the promise. This is, we talked about a moment ago, this is that moment we've all been told is where we arrive and we no longer struggle. And And we just get to sit back and retire and just live out our calling as if the whole world wants everything we have and there's no more fight. And that's just, that's an illusion. You know, that was something we were sold on a TV commercial late at night. Uh, you know, you remember that on the, um, the old infomercials on TV, on cable TV? It's like that where we were, we were told this idea that's not real. And the battle in the promise might be the most important of all because this is the battle to continue to expand and to partner with God both in our resources, our finances, our faith, to actually accomplish something on the earth. This is the impact you were born to make, but you won't be able to do it unless you go through these 3 battles that are creating in you the kind of warrior that can show up to that promise and go, there's giants in this land and I can take them out, and they shouldn't be here because God has given us this land. And so I think when we get to that point, everything about our finances really starts to look like leverage. Right? It starts to look like investing. It starts to look like passive income that is generating, um, resources that can continue to fuel the mission. But at that point, the finances and the mission are really one and the same. And I think that's where we all should try to get to, where our focus and our alignment and our, our calling is also being funded by the resources that God has called us to generate.

Oh my gosh, I love that so much. I hope to be at that place someday. That is my plan, to just have So much that I feel like there's an abundance and he's trusting me and I'm making those right choices. And it makes me think of the opposite, or not even the opposite of, but people who have access and abundance who are not living for God. And that makes me question, you know, why do they get to have all of this without doing all of that work? And I truly believe That is just to make me a better person, a better version of myself, and that God is doing that work in them, and we can't compare, right? So I would love for you to talk about this a little bit because I think there's so many lies in Christianity about like God is punishing you or he's not blessing you, and you watch your neighbor who doesn't even believe in God and you know who has three houses, and so I would love for you to talk. Just break down some of those lies right now because we have to get rid of this scarcity mindset, this comparison mindset, or this mindset that it determines who we are. Like you look at the people who just lost their homes in the Palisades fires, you know, celebrities with all of this money, and they they're Mel Gibson said, "I I need God." Like this stuff can be taken away from me in one day from a fire. This is not who I am. I am not my property. I'm not my money. It's like we want it so bad, as soon as we get it, we wanna cling to it harder and identify. And I think that's where the trap is. I think that's where we really lose God sometimes and feel like, oh yeah, we did do this on our own. We don't need him anymore. And it's like, whoops, maybe not.

100%. There is a scripture that I love so much in Proverbs that says, the blessing of the Lord makes us rich And he adds no sorrow to it. And I grew up in a very privileged family. I grew up with my parents' friends were people who ran business, national businesses that you would know, household names. And these were people that I spent holidays with, Fourth of July and all of that. And so I grew up seeing not all of them; most of them were not believers. And I grew up seeing the sorrow, the real sorrow that comes with wealth. And so I think sometimes on the outside we think. They're they're living large. They're living pretty. They've got three houses. They've got, and we don't see the state of their heart. I actually, when I graduated high school, I took a vow of poverty because what I had seen with wealth was just sadness and sorrow, and I saw how money distorted relationships and how it ate away at trust. And it was like I didn't want anything to do with it, you know? And I eventually renounced that vow, thankfully. But I did. I moved into the inner city of Waco, Texas. I rejected. everything that was in my life because I wanted to, um, find a way to be rich in God.

Mm-hmm.

Because all I saw was the money is so vacant and empty. And it's— it like, don't get me wrong, it's nice, you know, but it leaves a hole if your heart isn't with the Lord. And so when I began to learn that God actually can make us rich, and I don't think that means just financially rich, I think it means every area of our life. But that God can also bless us financially, and that when he does it, we don't have that sorrow, we don't have that lack, we don't have that poverty mentality where you're living in a marble square foot, you know, 7,000 square foot house, but you feel poor and you feel like death. You see, all you see is your lack and your insecurity. It's like, no, when we go through the process that God wants us to go through and he begins to bless us financially, which again, I don't think is the full goal, but I do think the Lord tends to do that. It's not a guarantee, but he does often do that because I think that wealth is drawn to alignment and purpose. And so when we are really filled and we're overflowing, it is easier to partner with how we can generate money. But that's a side note. When we think about, you know, why is it that I'm waiting on God to bring abundance to me, we have to go, okay, let's look at what's in our hand now. And the principles of the kingdom always start with what do I have to offer to the Lord today? I may not be able to even give a full 10% tithe right now. I may be so strapped in other commitments that I can only give a 3% tithe. So am I doing that? Am I taking what I have, my 5 loaves, my 2 fish, and giving it to God so he can break it and make it into something miraculous? And I think that when we look objectively at what everybody else has and we don't see what we have, we stay in this endless loop because the beginning of of, like, breaking out starts with an honest assessment of where we are. So if we're not honest— and it's the same with health, right? If we're not honest about what's really going on in your blood, what is really going on in your hormones, and we're just trying to throw, you know, random supplements at the problem, we're trying to— you know what I mean? We're putting Band-Aids on everything.

Yeah.

And we're just chronically frustrated that we can't get to the end of it. And you're saying to your patients, listen, the end of it, it starts with the blood test. Let's look at what's really going on in your body. That's the same with our finances and with our calling. It's like, what do you have right now? What are you doing with what you have right now? If we believe that we'll be good stewards once we get XYZ, we're gonna lose. We're gonna lose because stewardship begins with being faithful with that $5 thing. So I'll just say this.

Mm-hmm.

When I was living in the inner city and I, my husband and I, when we got married, we had about $1,800 a month. That's what we lived on. We lived in a small little duplex together. It was awesome. You know, our date nights, we would go out to this restaurant called Cheddar's and we would share a salad because they had these big, you know, jumbo-sized salads. So we would get one of those, we'd share it, we'd get an appetizer and a, and a Dr Pepper. And our whole date night was like $18.

Mm-hmm.

And it was glorious, you know? And we never felt anything bad about that. Like it was just so fun. And as we've grown and as our business has been blessed and, you know, now it's not, it's not common, but it's not uncommon for us to go drop $200 on a date night. Right. And just go to a nice dinner or something like that. And it always makes me think so fondly of those early days, 20-something years ago, where we were starting out being faithful with what we had. And as God has blessed us, that number has changed, but the discipline is the same.

Yeah.

It still feels the same internally to me when I wrote my $10 tithe check to where I write the checks I have now. The gift coming out of me still feels the same. And I think this is what people sometimes misunderstand is that they think once you have all this money, it's not, you know, it's just gonna feel so effortless.

It doesn't.

You still feel it leaving your hand. You go to buy a car, you still feel the pain of that, just like you did when your car was a $30,000 car, you know? And I think that if we can get out of this mentality that they must not have the same internal struggles that I do, if we can begin there and be honest about ourself, we will be so much farther down the road. Because we'll start realizing, listen, we're all doing the same thing. We're all practicing stewarding. We're all practicing giving. We're all— and it feels the same. It's just the dollar amount looks different.

Oh my gosh, that's such good wisdom. Yes, start showing God right now that he can trust you with the little amounts that you have. And I feel the same way with the mission that he's given me. You know, he brought me a few women and he was just pour into them, just love them, just show up for them, share the gospel with them. You know, I wanted to start my coaching academy with 1,000 women, and he's like, oh, you get 20. You know, you have to show me that I can trust you and that you're gonna do what you said you were gonna do. Are you actually going to be obedient like you said you were? And that, I believe, is why it has grown so quickly, because I continue to stay in that posture Like, I am just going to serve you no matter what it looks like. And the blessings are what the blessings are, you know. I had to, like, forget what I want and my will and all of that, and it really has helped so much. And I just, I want women to realize that if they just truly handed it over, like you said, and let Jesus carry that burden, like, His yoke is light. And get real about your finances. Be honest about how you're spending it. And I think that tells so much about you. I remember when I switched over my bank accounts last year, I had to like look at every little transaction and say, do I still need this? Am I still spending this? And that was a reality check of like, these are my priorities right here on the piece of paper. Where I spend my money is my priority in my life. And I realized Like, I'm eating out way more than I, you know, thought I was, even though I said eating healthy is my priority. And so you just don't even realize it sometimes. You can't see the picture when you're in the frame, right? So I love this assessment of like, let's just get honest with everything and start from there. So, oh my gosh, you unpacked so much good stuff, and I can't recommend your book anymore. Like, everybody needs to read this book, and it's an easy read, which is nice. But I guess easy in the sense that you can get through it quickly, But I underlined so much. I went back and reread it because you're blowing my mind and I have to sit and contemplate and think about the things that you're saying. And I just, I really appreciate you tackling this topic because it's so necessary for us as Christians to really get real with our finances and embrace the idea that God gave us money as a tool to do more good in the world. So I welcome all of that. Do you have any like last parting words that you want to share or anything with the listeners?

Yeah, and I do want to say, just to honor you, like what you just described about building this, this journey that you've been on with your virtual practice is exactly what it looks like. And I want to honor that because it is so important to remember we all feel this way. We want to start at a certain point point, you know, and we just think that we're the only ones struggling with that thought, and it's not true. We all start like that. And I think it's amazing what you're doing, and the women that— I mean, it is incredible, the people that are in your wake behind you that are getting answers and, and really feeling seen and known and loved in the midst of actually getting practical solutions. It's really cool. So I wanted to honor you with that.

Thank you.

And I wanted to make sure you knew too, so the Expansion Mandate— I actually, I'm glad you said the way they said about it, because I wrote it to be read completely, because I'm one of those people that doesn't finish every book that I start. And so I was like, if I'm gonna write it, I want to write it in a way that you keep like compelling through it and you want to get to the end. And so it is written and designed for that. And then I just came out this month with a second book to it, and it's kind of like a, um, like a part 2 in a sense, and it's called The Money Mandate. And so I wanted to tell you about that one too. So that one, they go hand in hand.

Yeah.

And The Money Mandate Those kind of like, okay, so now what? It's exactly this conversation that we're having and then taking it deeper into specifically around the beliefs around money and things like that. So I wanna make sure that you guys knew about that one as well. But the Expansion Mandate is a great place to start cuz that kind of gets the mentality around what does God want from your life and how can you grow it? And they, they do go together really well. And I just wanted to thank you for having me on here, and I'm so grateful to get to be, you know, hopefully get to know your audience and for them to get to know me. And, uh, what a gift. Thank you so much.

Yes, I think it's like money goes hand in hand with health and wellness. It really does, because we have to invest in ourselves to really create optimal health, because default is just sickness in this day and age in America. Like, if we eat the standard American diet, which is the default, We will be sick. We will be in the hospital, in the doctor's office, racking up those bills. So I say you're going to pay now or you're going to pay later. Like, you want to pay now and invest and be healthy, or do you want to pay later when you have heart disease or heart attacks or, you know, cancer? Like, so we have to just stop with the idea that insurance is the end-all be-all and it's going to, like, protect us or take care of us or cover us. It's just not. That's not what that was created for. It's not for you, it's for them. Unfortunately, that's just the truth of it. So I think this conversation is absolutely necessary for women, and I'm excited to read The Money Mandate. I didn't realize it was out. I, I'm so excited. So we might have to have you back, Rachel.

I would be honored.

That's so good. Okay, so where can people follow you? They need, they need to follow you.

Thank you. Yes, uh, you can follow me on Instagram. It's probably my most active, @rachelwortman. And, uh, also I have a podcast called Wisdom's Table with Rachel Wortman, and we really just spend 20 minutes a week doing biblical alignment. So we talk about all kinds of things in life and anchor it to the word and wisdom from the word. So you can find me there. I have a weekly email that people love. It's a devotional, just a thought-provoking kind of thing, and I keep them short and I don't flood your inbox. That is a discipline of mine. I, I always like— I'm, I'm very passionate. I always tell people I will sell it, like email you when I have something to say. Like, so that way you know if, if you get an email from Um, so you can grab that in the link in my bio on Instagram. There's a link for that. Otherwise, um, yeah, you can grab the books, find me on, on social media, and, and let's go from there.

Awesome. Yeah, all this stuff is in the show notes, you guys. Definitely check her out. I am just so grateful for your time today and your wisdom and your unique perspective on all of this. It's not very often that a pastor, you know, really Gets this piece of it and then shares it publicly. So thank you. You are such a blessing. Wow, Rachel is such a blessing. I know that you got something out of that episode, and I pray that little seed that God planted just now inside of you continues to be watered and grows. Sometimes what we need to do is contemplate things.

We need.

to think on it over and over again. I honestly have listened to certain podcasts multiple times because I really needed to hear that message on like deeper and deeper levels. And so sometimes the first time you hear something, you're like, oh, that's really interesting. That triggered something inside of me, or I know I need to deal with that. And then you listen again and you're like, oh, that's what I need to do. Thank you, God, for showing me that next step. And then the third time you listen, it all just becomes clear. God starts laying it out and you see the next step that you need to take. So here's the deal: don't be afraid to consume the same content more than once, whether it's reading a book, listening to a podcast. That is the power behind Lectio Divina, which if you are in my Fast to Faith world, you know all about. And if you're not in my Fast to Faith World, please go to the app. It is free. There's so many amazing resources. There's an incredible sisterhood of women in the Fast to Faith app who want to support you and pour into you and lift you up and call you higher. So that was just a side note. But Lectio Divina is the act of meditating on scripture, and the way that we do that is by reading it 2, 3, or 4 times and hearing what God has to say through that living, nourishing word of the scripture. And he talks more to you the more that you listen. And so if you listen a few times, he's going to continue to reveal himself and his plans for you. And so don't be afraid to listen to this episode a couple times if it has really triggered something inside of you or resonated with you or hit deeply, and you're like, I need to understand more. And then go get her books, The Expansion Mandate, The Money Mandate and start reading, because I pray right now that every woman listening to this be free from the constraints of money, from the limiting belief that money is scarce, that you can't have it, that you can't accumulate it, that you can't enjoy it. I pray all of this away for you, and I pray abundance and for you to step into what God has for you, because when good people have more money, they can do more good. We can take care of ourselves, get ourselves healthy. We can take care of those we love. We can donate and become philanthropists and change our communities. Like, I'm no longer afraid of money, and it took me a long time to be able to say that. So money is simply a tool that we can use to further God's kingdom. So I hope you got something out of this. I want to hear from you. Please leave me a review. That helps Apple know that you want to hear more of this. Five stars would be incredible, or if you're watching on YouTube, hit the subscribe button. Please let YouTube know that this stuff is important to you, that you want to see more of this content and less of that other garbage, right? Let me know what else you want to hear about. I know this blessed you today, so go out and have an amazing week. I love you.