#273: Healing Trauma Through Faith And Neuroscience

People with trauma often describe themselves as feeling stuck, really this inability to move forward. And that can create a lot of guilt, a lot of shame, and it's also sick and deep in the already present levels of anxiety that they're dealing with. But people feel stuck in trauma because trauma is not stored as a story, it's stored as a state.

Mm.

And that's something that's really important for people to understand. We create stories. But the trauma is not stored in the story, it's stored in a state.

If you're tired of doing all the right things and still feeling exhausted, stuck in your body and disconnected from God, this podcast is for you. I'm Dr. Tabatha, triple board certified functional medicine physician, and I help women stop fighting their bodies and start healing them. God's way. This isn't about another diet or quick fix. This is about restoring your energy, your confidence, and your faith through fasting, functional medicine, and biblical truth. Welcome to Fast to Faith, where you don't just lose weight and feel great, you step into who God created you to be. So let's get into it. Welcome back to the Fast to Faith podcast. You are in for a treat. I am beyond thrilled for my guest today. We met him in New York City at the Deep End Live, and I just want to throw out there that the reason I met Dr. Russ Irwin is because I upgraded. I upgraded to the VIP, and that is when I got to meet him, get a hug, get a picture with him, and start a conversation. And so I would just encourage you to to invest in yourself and always upgrade in any way that you can, because the opportunities that God just, you know, opens those doors and things start to happen. So that is why Dr. Russ is here today, and it's a very fitting conversation because we've started the new year with talking about addiction and things, and we're going to dive into trauma a little bit. So welcome, Ashley.

Yeah, thanks. I'm so glad to be back, and I'm super excited to see you again, Dr. Russ, and I'm forward to this episode.

Me too. Oh my gosh, can I sing your praises, Dr. Russ? Because you're just so awesome.

Thank you. I, I probably wouldn't myself at all.

So I know you're too humble. You have a doctorate in psychology and human behavior. You went to the Wharton School of Neuroscience and Business, and you just have this beautiful blending of Faith and business and coaching and all the hardcore neuroscience behind trauma and what, you know, how it defines us and creates, you know, struggles in our lives, but more importantly, triumphs. So I just want to dive into all that today.

Thank you.

I'm so excited.

Well, there's so much to talk about in all 3 of those areas. When you talk about trauma, when you talk about spirituality, when you talk about neuroscience, you talk about business. They're all very strong and deep Individualized subjects, but what I do and what I love about them is the the overlapping of all of those sort of that entangled approach that their neuroscience there's a there is a neuroscience to business success. There's a neuroscience to trauma. A lot of the very successful people I work with are highly highly traumatized, which enhances some of their creativity to do what they do. And so there's this meshing together of so many variables. that we're facing in our world today.

Yeah, I think it's really important. You mentioned, like, highly successful people can have a lot of trauma in their past and use it actually to be successful, and sometimes it can hinder people. So that's what I want to unpack, because I've spent the past 4 years trying to figure out, like, how do I become an entrepreneur and run a business when I'm a physician and I'm trained to take care of people? And what I've realized is, it all comes back to identity. And that comes from the experiences we have in life. So maybe we should start with you explaining what trauma is in relation to our lives.

Sure. Well, thank you very much. And I will try to give you a very condensed version. Yes, quite a deep area. We could go on so many really cool rabbit trails over the next A few hours, but but really in a nutshell, trauma really PTSD. There's there's two versions: there's CPTSD and PTSD, and PTSD, which is post traumatic stress disorder. That is the result of somebody encountering a traumatic event. So it's a divorce; it's the loss of a loved one; it's it's you know sickness within a family. So what event happens? It creates trauma, and I'll go through explaining in a moment what that means. The other, and the one that is a little bit more complex and challenging, is CPTSD, which is complex post-traumatic stress disorder. And that is the accumulation of several traumas over time, you know, weaving themselves together to create a traumatic outcome that is a lot more challenging in an individual to work through. So there are really 2 types of trauma, those 2 there. And what trauma is, because let me say this, is that People with trauma often describe themselves as feeling stuck, really this inability to move forward. And that can create a lot of guilt, a lot of shame. And it's also sick and deep in the already present levels of anxiety that they're dealing with. But people feel stuck in trauma because trauma is not stored as a story. It's stored as a state.

Mm.

And that's something that's really important for people to understand. We create stories, but the trauma is not stored in the story. It's stored in a state. And so trauma is not stored in the mind. It's actually stored within the nervous system and oftentimes tries to work itself out through the body. And then we have, of course, as you know, those somatic, somatosensory responses. But what happens is when somebody experiences trauma, the brain doesn't process it the way it processes normal memories. So I'm going to say a few things that might seem contradictory if I'm saying, well, it's not really stored in the memories, but let's talk about memory in a moment. It doesn't store trauma the way it normally stores things within memory. What happens is it becomes fragmented and state dependent. So that's really extremely important for somebody to be aware of. And I would say, you know, moving sort of fast forwarding for a second, I think one of the most helpful things in trauma and moving from trauma to PTSD, which is post traumatic growth, is is really that sense of awareness is coming to an awareness maybe with the help of another. What has actually taken place? What's going on in my system? And what are some of the things now that I have this awareness steps I can take to begin to progressively move forward. So I do want to say that state plays a very, very strong role in the deepening of trauma in one's life. And so what happens with trauma is the brain learns very, very quickly as a survival, kind of an immature type mechanism, is that the world becomes very dangerous. And for whatever reasons, I'm not safe. And so the brain now comes to this conclusion based upon circumstances that it's not safe, therefore you're not safe. And what it starts to to do is it begins to reorganize your world, its world, around that belief, around that narrative now. And so what it ends up creating is something in psychological terms or psychiatric terms called survival dominance. And what survival dominance now is, the brain keeps choosing protection over growth. Now, there's a lot of wonderful personal development individuals, self-help gurus that are out there, and they're wonderful people, and we all want to grow. But the truth is, the brain is really not created for growth or designed for growth. It's designed for 2 things. Number one is survival, and number 2 is comfort. So the brain is always looking for what does it need to do to feel a level of comfort and safety. And then secondly, what does it need to do to survive? And so it's not wired for growth, it's wired for survival. So during the traumatic process, when we're trying to grow, the brain will start fighting against us because it's constantly trying to survive. So we have this survival dominance mechanism that what happens. Now, to give you a bit of a breakdown before we got into— if you wanted to know different regions or areas of the brain that are involved— is with, uh, with somebody when they experience a traumatic event, the stronger the emotional reaction that you have to that particular event or to the person that's actually causing you the pain, the more your brain pays attention and begins to focus on that event. Because it's gone into this hypervigilant red alert state. It's seeing the potentiation for danger. And so now I'm not only aroused, but you have the fullness of my attention. So in that reaction that's taking place to a circumstance or to a person, what happens is the brain begins to give all of its emotional attention to that event. And it takes— if I keep it in simplistic terms, and there may have been a few theorists that have used this analogy before, but when I am faced with something, And I have this strong thought and strong emotional reaction to an event or a person, my brain actually takes a neurochemical snapshot of that event and takes that snapshot, that photograph, and now it stores it as a memory. And it stores it in long-term memory from a highly emotionally charged experience. So what happens is during the emotional moment of trauma, the brain's thinking processes, because the amygdala and the limbic system is highly charged. It's in survival dominance mode. It takes a picture, so it's going to remember what's going on here. So hopefully we'll never go into that again. The prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for rational, logical thinking, it's as though it goes offline.

Yeah.

And then the limbic system starts to take control. And so what I'm saying, in essence, is trauma lessens your ability to think rationally in the moment or when you're even recalling a moment several years later, while at the same time, Equally heightening your emotions towards that particular event, and so you have this highly charged situation. Now, during this time, I'll just say for a couple minutes, and we can break here, but just to try to lay some foundations here. During this time of this heightened emotion and reduced rational thinking, everything gets stored for protective reasons in memory, and we often hear about saying out of sight, out of mind. Well, because the experience is out of sight, it's not out of mind. It's simply buried in subconscious mind or subconscious memory, and it's in a place called the refractory period. And the purpose of the storing in the refractory period is so that your system has it there, out of mind, out of awareness. So you would think you're not bothered by something, but it's there and it's in this layered subcortical region, and it is on an on-guard basis now. Looking for every bit of stimulus that's going to come in through your thalamus to assess it really quickly to simply say, is this a potential danger or is it not? The problem is because we now work more from narrative than we do from fact, our brain now will interpret everything as potential danger. And so it's always on this hypervigilant, guarded, you know, scenario there that becomes absolutely exhausting for most individuals. And again, that begins to impact the identity because if I'm always feeling this and I'm reliving this and, well, actually come to think about it, if you actually even did this to me in the beginning, I must not be very valuable. So what is my problem anyway? So now we not only have this guarded survival mechanized dominance factor going on, we've got a tanking identity that starts to happen at the same time. So it's a bit of a kind of a brief summary of what's going on. From a neural perspective. And then you can break down the different areas— hippocampus, default mode network, uh, you know, the, uh, the amygdala. I mean, all those things play a huge role, but that's just kind of a basic understanding of what's going on. When I'm traumatized, my emotional center goes into hyper overload, my rational center goes offline, a snapshot's taken, it's put in the refractory period, and then I spend the rest of my life in pain, exhausted, and on guard.

Oh my gosh, we see this so much with our clients and patients. You know, as a functional medicine physician, I often go through a woman's entire lifespan to talk about her health history. And she'll start recalling stories of things that happen when I ask questions like, hey, what happened when you had your appendix out at 10? And they go into this story about, you know, their dad leaving their mom, and the emotions just boil over. And they feel all of those feelings again. And that's what you're saying is like, it's stored chemically. And then what I think a lot of people don't realize is they feel all of those same chemical responses every time it comes up. And so absolutely, yeah, we see that, you know, in the coaching space so much. And so I would love for you to speak about triggers, because that's essentially what's happening, right? You don't even have to be telling the original story, but something can feel like that, and then the body responds accordingly, right?

Absolutely. And triggers are very, very powerful forces. And triggers have different meanings to different people. But really, in a nutshell, what happens is if I encounter a situation, say, 10 years ago, what happens with that particular situation? So let's go back to— there's this hypervigilant, survival-dominant response, takes a chemical snapshot, says, let's get her out of here now. You don't want to be thinking about this. Takes it down to the refractory period, and what happens—it's out of sight but not out of mind—is trauma is not stored as most people think on a horizontal axis; it's stored subcortically in the brain on a vertical axis. What does that mean? Well, you'll often see somebody, particularly if it's an individual who speaks. So I use my hands a lot when I speak, and you know I learned when I was a professor in the medical school is to. Try to present in points. So I'm always going like this or like this, and I'm trying to visualize points. But you'll watch a person when they often describe their traumas; they'll use their hands and they'll say something like this: "Well, man, I'll tell you when I was five years old and this happened, and then when I was ten and my dad left, this took place. When I was like twenty-three and I went through that, and then that divorce at thirty." And what they're doing is they're using their hands to try to understand. And frame trauma on a horizontal perspective. Now, why are they doing that subconsciously? Because if I tell you about this, by the time I get to this, is I feel far enough away as though this is so far in the past it shouldn't have a hold on me anymore. But it is really not this, this, and this. It's actually this, this, and this.

Mm-hmm.

So trauma gets stored in layers subcortically into the brain. Now, It's stored in a particular area that it is very challenging. I almost want to say outside the area of language, but it's not 100%, but it's really, really high. So because it's stored outside of language's ability to access, in many cases, traditional talk therapies don't work with trauma.

Right.

So here it is stored here. So now something happens to me. Years and years later, I fly off the handle and have this response. Really a response where my friend says, gosh, Russ, that was pretty extreme, that response to that situation. Like, like, dude, like, what just happened? The truth is, I didn't respond to that event. I responded from all these other events here.

Mm-hmm.

So what happened is the hippocampus is storing all these Memories in this vertically layered resource of the brain, really hard to access with traditional talk therapy. There's really not much I can do about it unless we get into neural brain spotting and other things we can talk about, or really the Spirit of the Lord coming in and bringing healing, which I absolutely love it when I watch the Lord take over, you know, in a session and respond to somebody. But what happens here is Something was done by that person, and what it did—it was familiar or similar enough to match the chemical snapshot that's stored in the refractory period in the archives. And then now what happens is your amygdala says to the hippocampus, "We've got incoming." This person smiled out of the wrong way. I don't like what they said, or I've got this feeling, or—and so what the the amygdala does is turns to the hippocampus and basically says. Do we have anything in our files on this? Do we have anything anywhere in our history? And the hippocampus is not going to bring up necessarily the facts. It's going to bring up the meaning that we've given to the facts. So I often say to people, it is not circumstances in life that really challenge us. It's the meaning that we give to those circumstances.

Yeah.

So as the hippocampus really, in a sense, is bringing this up, what it's really bringing up is what I call kind of an oxymoron, a factual Mm-hmm. So there's a measure of fact here, but it's my story, it's my narrative. And this is happening in a microsecond. And then my hippocampus says, that is awful. We can't face that again. Attack. And then I launch out this missile at a situation that does not call for my behavioral response, but is calling for a response based upon all those things that have come to the surface in a microsecond. So that really, in a nutshell, is what a trigger does. A trigger digs deep subconsciously into the layers and asks ourselves, how did it feel? What did we need to do? What did we do? Well, we felt this. We did this. This is the only way to survive. Let's do it again.

Yeah.

And so now you've got a rinse and repeat, even though it's 20 years later, a totally different person, different circumstance. But the trigger was strong enough to tweak the narrative to call up that response. And when I get this chemical response to an event, it is not a new chemical response. That old chemical response that is stored actually comes back up. So this is where it's in the nervous system and not in the memory. So when I'm experiencing trauma in this moment to a trigger 20 years later, my nervous— my neurochemical system is literally 100% experiencing exactly what it experienced 20 years earlier.

And to me, that's like such an opportunity. What I've learned to do is when I feel those uncomfortable feelings of like, oh gosh, I'm pulling something up, I have no idea necessarily what it's from, but it's an opportunity to start to rewire and reframe and retell the story and change all of that. And I've heard you teach on like how you can be stuck in those emotions and that creates a mood and a temperament, and then Eventually, it like changes your identity. And so to me, that's what's important is we need to tackle this from an identity standpoint. Because like you said, talk therapy and uncovering every trauma and seeing everything and like talking about what your parents did to you, it's not always helpful or even necessary, right?

And sometimes it's, you know, I want to say this with respect, but sometimes it can actually be retraumatizing for the person to bring that up as well. And so, you know, yeah, you want to be very, very careful. But what happens is interesting. You mentioned the identity, because for me, you know, even when I'm talking business strategy and I'm sitting with a team with a whiteboard, everything's about clarity of identity. And from a spiritual perspective, identity is so important, but identity is the foundation to move us further. So my identity as a believer, if you're okay with me saying this, Oh, please. Because I understand that I'm a— I understand that I am a son. Okay, so I've become a believer. I'm Jewish by background, but I became a believer. And so I am now a son. Okay, so that's my identity, but it's not my position, nor is it my birthright. And so identity needs to lead to birthright. And so if you look at, for example, in classic, you know, Hebrew culture or even biblical times, there might have been 4 or 5 children. it, and they all got something, but the oldest son got 10 times. He got the most.

Yeah.

Because birth order created a birthright beyond normal identity. So if I just— hey, I'm a son and I'm a member of the household and I got 6 million siblings out there, I mean, that's a wonderful thing, but the Lord doesn't want us to stop there. The Lord wants us to understand Birthright. Now, simply an opinion here, and it will be an opinion as a believer, not necessarily as a doctor. I think the enemy goes after identity because if he can derail identity, then he can cause dysfunction or maladaptation to the birthright. So I said this to Apostle Issy. We were chatting in New York, actually. We had some time together to hang out, and we were talking about trauma. And I said, you know, Issy, I said, your, your heart and your calling is towards nations. I said, do you know that— I said, if you can traumatize a culture, you can, you can impact a birthright. If you can impact a birthright, you can derail a destiny.

Mm.

And so when I see the enemy, not only for nations but for individuals, if he can attack my identity, which is, is the target of trauma, you take out the identity, you take out the sense of value and worth. And how could a God even love me? I mean, if I thought maybe he did, then why would he allow this to happen? happened. So what kind of a God is he anyway? If the enemy can take up my identity, he can impact my ability towards birthright. Now we're starting to cook now, because when I not only know who I am, but I know what's rightfully mine as an heir, and I start utilizing that for kingdom purposes from a surrendered heart, now I'm talking destiny. Now I'm talking about the fulfillment of assignments. So I think trauma— trauma's goal is like a python spirit, if I could use that term, is to constrict To choke out, to destroy, to derail a sense of identity. So trauma, literally, from a neurophysiological perspective, it traps identity.

Oh my gosh, I feel this so deeply because I— when I really stepped into my faith with my business full out, you know, Christ called me to do it and I just said okay, and I was scared. But when I did it, the attacks just came in tenfold. And I realized, because I'm about to impact countless women and their destiny and like really make a big dip for the kingdom. And so, it's better to take me out than try to go after all those individual people. So, that makes total sense to me.

Yeah.

And what I realized was, what he did was he would give me this spirit of depression and just speak death over me like, oh, you can't possibly do it and just whisper things in my ear. And so I would cancel myself out. I would cancel meetings. I would not reach out to people. I would, you know, think about projects and not do them. And so the devil didn't even have to do a lot of work. I did a lot of it myself because I had this identity of defeat from my past traumas.

And it's funny you mentioned that, you know, Dr. Tabatha, because, you know, traditionally people— a lot of times I'll get asked to go into organizations to help with someone or a team that's having procrastination issues. And, and of course, you know, people talk about time management. We really don't manage time. I mean, we all have the same 24 hours. The big issue is generally prioritization management, not time management. But even then, we'll talk a little bit about that. But procrastination is not a result of laziness, nor is it usually a result of prioritization management or lack thereof. love, it's actually a result of fear.

Yes.

Because if I don't do this, um, well, yeah, I'm not going to gain anything, but I'm not going to lose anything either. So here's the challenge: traumatized people are some of the most creative people on the planet. And they, they— and which is why they're so impacted, because their right brain creative areas are impacted by trauma. But then the spirit of fear comes in, and they don't want to try anything. So some of our most creative people that are what I would call potential kingdom influencers are the ones that the enemy set his sights on to take out. Because if I can traumatize your identity, then I'm going to keep you from being creative. I'm going to keep you from stepping into your destiny. There's a whole teaching that I do. It's on neural warfare. And so we talk about spiritual warfare. We talk about chemical warfare. I talk about neuro-spiritual warfare. And it's really a lot about regaining the identity. So I'll say this, for example, what trauma produces— and I love this term, I've used it before and someone said, well, hold on, hold on, say that again— is trauma traps the identity. Therefore, what it actually produces is what I call identity foreclosure.

Mm-hmm.

And what identity foreclosure is, is this, is that I now wrongly distinguish between who I am and what's taken place Or done to me. So I hear a lot of people will talk about, well, my PTSD. I said, well, why are you owning it? Well, it's, it's my trauma. It's like, did you buy it?

Right.

Like, I, I don't know. Do you want me to get in agreement with you on this? And, and I'll play with the people if I have that level of relationship. But identity foreclosure, here's how you recognize it when you start hearing things like this, um, or words that will demonstrate I am my trauma. I'm damaged now. I'm damaged goods. I'm always guarded. I have or trust issues. When you when you you see this gradual progressive confusing with what's been done to me, with who I now am, or what I believe, or how I've behaved even in response to what's done to me, to who I am. And if the enemy gets the identity, he gets the airship. He gets the destiny, he gets the assignment, he gets it all. And so there is a real push towards the, I think, refining or redefining of identity in our world today. But it goes even beyond that. It's, it's, it's moving from identity to air as well. And so for a lot of individuals, when they have identity issues, it's not that they don't want to be healed, it's that they can't. because they've created this blockage within their system based upon their own sense of value and worth of what's taken place, that even— excuse me— when healing is offered to them, there is part of their spirit that cries out and longs for that, but there's a part of them that actually feels unsafe in the atmosphere of healing because the brain no longer recognizes peace.

Mm. Yes. Oh my gosh. We deal with this all the time. Ashley will take calls for potential patients, but she's also the coaching director. And so we hear from women, they are their diagnosis.

That's just who I am. Yeah. The whole time he was talking that, I can picture so many women who have said that to us. Like, that's just who I am. That's just what happened to me. And they own it. They own not only their trauma, but their diseases too. If they have some sort of ailment. Yeah.

Yeah. And this is why I think Paul speaks so much about, you know, casting down imagination, you know, having the mind of Christ, um, you know, the renewing the mind in Romans 12, because it's very important for us to understand and not in any way to lessen the incredible value of the cross from a salvation perspective. I mean, when I got saved, it was just It didn't go well with my family. Like, I just went over to the enemy now. The only thing I ever knew about Jesus growing up was he was the bad guy, like he was some psychopath portraying himself to be what we were waiting for, and that was the Messiah. But the beautiful thing, guys, is is that salvation is not just spiritual and redemptive; it's also restorative. Yeah. And so there is this ability for the renewing of the mind, and and I absolutely love this. You know, I talk to so many people who. who their favorite scripture is Jeremiah 29:11, where God said, I know the thoughts that I have for you, and they're not thoughts for evil, they're thoughts for good and for health and well-being and for prosperity. When you look at that and you break that down visually from an Old Testament perspective, you've got God over here who was always distant. He's either up in the mountain or he's in the Holy of Holies or hanging over the Ark, but he's not He's not with us. He's around us.

He's not touchable.

We just, we can't have that encounter with him. And so God says, basically, you're here, I'm here, and I want to let you know I care about you and I love you. So I've got these thoughts for you. They're my thoughts. They're not yours. They're mine. But I'm thinking them over you. I'm thinking about you. And so Jeremiah 29:11 is what I call this beautiful version of Old Testament encouragement. encouraging disconnect where God is trying to tell you, I'm thinking about you, but I'm over here. And what we know in the salvation story is the longing of God's heart was to close the chasm so that relationship, so this entanglement takes place. But here's the beautiful thing, is in the Hebrew, the word for thoughts— God's saying, I have thoughts over here about you over there. Is the word makashavod. Now, when you fast forward into the New Testament, Paul does not say, this is what God thinks about you. Paul says, you have the mind of Christ. Well, hold on a second. Well, you just— do you know what you just told me? So the chasm has been closed. And if you look at this from a quantum perspective in science, And I love quantum, quantum realities and quantum modalities. But, but what's happened now is this chasm in the quantum realm has been closed and this entangling has taken place. So Paul's not saying, here's my mind and here's Christ's mind, and he'll just go like that, because the word that Paul uses in the Greek is the translation of the Hebrew word Makashavad. So what Paul is saying to us is your mind now, with all its challenges, here's why you need to renew it and cast down imagination: because you have the Makashavad of Christ. That right there, I have seen guys play such a role in healing with people suffering from trauma, because it undoes the stereotypical belief and narrative that we have that you know I am damaged, that. That, you know, I, I'm, I'm of no value, I'm no good. I'm, I mean, all these I am statements, when we makashavod with Christ, they go out the window because I can't think as I am. I can only now think as he is because we're entwined.

Oh my gosh.

That changes healing, but it changes relationship as well. And so now I'm understanding that my salvation Is, you know, just like, it moves me to think about this because I think about my life prior to Christ, like it was just awful, awful. I was a very, very awful person. And coming to Christ and assimilating the redemptive aspects of Him. But now as a clinician, as a doctor, as a scientist, starting to see the restorative aspects. Of the cross. So people's lives are not only redeemed, but I have to know a lot of people that love Jesus but will still talk about their trauma, their value or lack thereof, and their, their damaged goods. It's like, no, hold on a second. You have not only been redeemed, there is a restoration. It's fully available. And another beautiful story is the story of the demoniac in Mark chapter 5. Now, whether that was a deliverance or healing, I think it's both. But we're never really given a formula of what happens. All we know is Jesus hears somebody crying on the other side of the sea, jumps in a boat, faces a storm. The disciples think he's lost his mind. He doesn't care about their safety. They get there, and this man that the story describes is— he's running around naked, cutting himself with stones, screaming out day and night. Like, this is a pretty messed up, traumatized individual, or demonized. Put them together. Jesus shows up and something happens. But the Bible doesn't tell us what Jesus does, because if it did, we'd turn it into a formula. We'd mechanize it. Now we'd be selling programs on how to do it in 3 steps. All we do know is this, this crazy individual, that for some reason, something happens so strong, it literally gets the attention of the entire village. Yeah. They come out, and it says they see the man seated—a position of peace, fully clothed. Why would you tell us this, Holy Spirit? A restoration of dignity, and it says in his right mind. And the word that's used there for the phraseology of right mind is this: it's the word sophroneo in the Greek, and so is the derivative of the word soteria means to save. Soteria is salvation. Phrenos is is the mind, phrenology the study of the mind. So sophroneo is the saving of the mind. So what they saw was that this man's mind had been saved. But here's the cool thing: when you break it down, and this is where where scientists get this and the church sometimes doesn't, is when you look at sophroneo and the fullness of meaning and the saving of the mind. Well, if we know according to Harvard's research that trauma rewires the mind, sophroneo means to unwire, to rewire. Jesus literally did more than maybe cast out a demon. He rewired this man's neural connections so he could sit in peace, so he could keep his clothes on, so he could be a phenomenon to the entire village. We see the first— post-traumatic stress disorder, neurophysical healing takes place in Mark chapter 5.

Oh my gosh, that is so powerful. And I love your Jewish perspective. You know, I remember you teaching about Numbers 13:33, where you're talking about, you know, the Israelites go in and they see the giants and they're like, we're grasshoppers, the giants think we're grasshoppers. You're like, no, that is your misshapen identity right there. And I love that you are, you know, you're so clear that Jesus is the answer, that the New Testament, the gospel, is where we need to look for that rewiring. Absolutely.

Yeah. And the cool thing with Numbers is, you know, I, I just love answering questions to me that are such common sense, and people look at you like, you know, but they went in on a stealth mission at night. They come back this report, and they're like, the giants say we're grasshoppers. It's like, they didn't even know you were in there. Did any of you talk to giants? If so, why are you here right now? You should be dead. So if you went into their land to spile their land, to take them over, and they knew it, they'd kill you. You're here. They didn't know you were there. How did you conclude that this is their opinion of you? But that's what narratives do when trauma rewires the mind. And, and do derails the identity, then all things are up for grab. So, so here's a, like, a really cool thing with, with trauma healing is that, you know, A, if we start to understand that salvation is more than redemptive, it's restorative. But the second thing is this: when I look at Paul talks about renewing the mind, it takes me back to having the mind of Christ, the makashevat of God. It takes me back to the rewiring that took place with the demoniac in Mark chapter 5. But the word renew Renewing here. Are you ready for this? You're going to love this as a doctor. I mean, I get so excited when I talk neuroscience.

I know, we're nerds.

The word, Tabatha, the word renewing implies a neuroplastic change. So we talk about neuroplasticity. Well, what happened? It's— it is neuroplasticity is that compensatory mechanism where this is here and this is going to come and undo this and take care of it and do what it's supposed to do. And we see neuroplasticity most common in stroke issues. But the word renewing means a neuroplastic change. In other words, a shifting in thinking. So now my thinking becomes restorative. It becomes redemptive. My identity shifts to one that's value-based and one that has worth rather than worthless. And my negative narrative moves towards— and I say this respectfully— a positive form of thinking. And as I start growing in this neuro-spiritual plastic change taking place and my synapses are rewiring, I start seeing who I am. Then I start finding out not only who I am, but what's really rightfully mine as an heir. And then I start behaving differently. Now I become the fallen who's become the impactor and the influencer.

Yes.

And that is— that's what the devil does not want the church to get healed of. So the trauma in the church— thank God traumatized people are going to church, but the message that they need to get when they get there is, this is why you've been traumatized, and this is the destiny on your life. Because when we experience this renewing of the mind, this neuroplastic change, what happens is neurochemically our narrative shifts from a survival identity to a son or daughter identity. I start knowing who I am. So rather than, you know, before I was saying, you know, I am damaged, I am no good, I always need to be on guard. Well, what happens now is rather than saying I must protect myself, I'm alone, is now I start thinking differently. I start thinking, hold it a second, I'm held, I'm valuable, I'm adopted, I'm actually not abandoned. Because I'm a son of the King. And there is this shift, a cosmic shift, a quantum shift that neuroconnectively takes place that just gives us a whole different outlook on life. And then the makashavod takes place. And actually, that gets fulfilled.

Yeah. And I hope women are feeling encouraged by that. Because it means we can change, an old dog can learn new tricks, we can have neuroplasticity and create new pathways in our brain. I would love for you to go back and talk a minute about confirmational bias, because I talk about this in my book Fast to Faith. I think women don't even realize that their brain, in an effort to protect them, is sabotaging them sometimes. It's like women get stuck in these negative patterns and they feel like the world is out to get them, and they possibly can't shift because of that negative attack. And it's just your brain, right? It's just neurobiology that's happening. And there's a way to overcome that, isn't there?

Yeah. Well, absolutely. You know, I'm moving from this whole way of living, thinking, believing, behaving, you know, this kind of this what I'll call a cognitive negative construct that's in place because it's deepened over time. To now I'm learning to assimilate a new one, and there is this gap, this transitional period where the enemy will come in almost like Eve. Did God really say that you were healed? Like hold on a second. Did you really really feel that? And so the enemy loves confirmation bias because as human beings, somebody asked me once. They said, "If you could, like in one word." simplify humanity and human behavior, what word would you use? And I love being put on the spot like that. I said, I'd have to use the word pattern. And he said, well, why would you say that? I said, because really, in a nutshell, we're patterned people. Well, how so? Well, I said, you've got your basal ganglia, which has several important functions, but one big function— it doesn't have a sense of moral code or right or wrong. It's got one job, to create habits. Because when you create a habit, when you function out of a pattern, you conserve brain energy for other important issues. So your basal ganglia is always wanting you to function out of thought and behavioral patterns because now you're not using energy. So with confirmation bias, what's happening here is— and I haven't read your book and I apologize. I didn't know you had one, but because we've just met.

It's okay.

But I'm sure you explained this wonderfully in your book. But with confirmation bias, how it works is you just You hold a belief, and you hold that belief long enough that your brain now starts filtering everything out that doesn't support that belief. So if I have a belief, well, I am this because of that which took place, when good news, good behavior, or support, or anything comes my way that is contrary to my construct, to my pattern way of thinking, to my Established sense of reality, I'm going to kick that out. And so confirmation biases is I am biased towards anything does not that doesn't confirm with what I know to be truth. The problem is is trauma shifts a lie towards truth and truth towards a lie, and we get stuck in this thing here. And so this doesn't happen deliberately, as you know neurologically it happens. Really more from an automatic perspective, and so the belief becomes so true over time that it's like a switch theory. That when my brain says, "I've got the truth," then it's not open to anything else. So when something new, like I know, thank you, I don't need you. I've got the truth right now. And so with confirmation bias and trauma, the pattern of thought, the construct that we develop, are things like. People can't be trusted. I'm not safe. Something must be wrong with me, especially for someone who who loved me, somebody who was a mentor, somebody who was a family member to do this to me. If I relax and let my guard down, I know something bad again is going to happen. So when I'm not safe, people can't be trusted. Something's wrong with me. If I relax and let my guard down, something bad will happen. Those are what I call the stay stuck narratives. That hold us in bondage.

Yeah, I mean, Ashley sees this all the time coaching women just say, I can't heal. I know I'll never lose weight. I can't feel better, or I'll never sleep again, right? Don't they just— 100% words.

Yeah, and they expect to fail before they even start. And so I'm thinking about the women who I do the calls with, trying to get them to be a patient or a coach. They talk themselves out of it before they even consider it. So they're already failed. And they haven't even started. They haven't even said yes to themselves.

Yeah. And that's— you're so right there in saying that, because what a lot of people don't realize is— I'll call it traumatic confirmation bias. But what that does is it even interprets neutral events negatively. So there's no neutrality. So I'm either good or I'm bad, and I obviously aren't good. I'm either fat or I'm thin, and I'm obviously not fat. Because of what I've been told, because what was done to me, or that person left me, or whatever the reasonings I come to. It's important that people know there is no neutrality with traumatic confirmation bias. It's it's it's black or white. It's on or it's off. So when you're trying to say to someone, you know, you can lose weight. No, I can't. There's there's no. options. There's no possibility. I am this. And so this is again where identity work becomes so powerful in laying the groundwork now to take that switch of truth and turn it into a dimmer switch so we can actually start to gradually turn it down a little bit and start to bring in more and more measures of truth.

I love that so much.

Yeah, I think hell is just screaming over our conversation today. Yeah, absolutely. It's just It's just the potential for freedom, you know, for people to set free. I mean, you think about the bias. I love the humanizing of biblical characters. And I think about John the Baptist. He is my weird archetype hero. Like, the guy just eats locusts, doesn't shave, runs around the desert and wears like sheepskin. Like, he is just— he would fit well in the '60s at Haight-Ashbury.

Mm-hmm.

He's just— he's bizarre. And there's nobody more sold out to Jesus than John. He baptizes. But then when in his last few weeks that he's alive, he's in prison and he gathers his disciples together. And I'm reading this story and I'm like, what the— he says to his disciples, could you go find Jesus and ask him this question? Are you really the one? Because I'm— I don't know. I don't think so.

After all he's done. Yeah.

Yeah. So are you really the one, or should I be looking for someone else? Come on. I'm like, hold on a second. Okay, Holy Spirit, you got to help me. What happened to John? And here was John's trauma that almost changed his mind. So John knows that according to Isaiah 61, that when Messiah comes, he's going to bring sight to the blind and the deaf are going to hear. The good news is going to be preached to the poor. And he's gonna open prison houses and set the captives free. Well, here's the problem. Where's John?

Yeah, he's in prison.

He's in prison. So he's like, well, hold on a second. Isaiah 61 says this. He's not opening the prisons because I'm still here and I'm about to die in a few days. So he's obviously not the one. So what John is looking at, and this is what trauma causes us to do, He was looking at what Jesus wasn't doing rather than what he was. Do you know, darn it, with Jesus, he never did answer his question. He didn't come back and say, tell him to chill, I'm the one, all good, you got it right in the Jordan. He said, hmm, go back and just tell John what I'm doing.

Oh my gosh.

That the lame are walking, the blind are seeing, The deaf are hearing the gospel. Just go back and tell them what I'm doing. And sometimes where discouragement, derailment, depression, these things can set in to negatively impact identity during trauma is trauma causes this construct where all I can see is what's not being done to get me out of this.

Yeah, that is so powerful, Russ. And people beg in their prayers, like, remove this obstacle, like, take me away from this situation instead of like giving the strength to get it through. And they're just literally focusing on what's not being done.

Yeah. And so what's being done to them. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I had somebody say to me once, and I mean, it's a totally different story. But even in my meeting, my first meeting with Taylor, as we were getting to know each other and build friendship, and he's like, tell me your story. And he's just bawling, like, what? So, you know, just very quickly, I grew up in a very, very physically abusive home, alcoholic home, My goal in life was to kill my dad when I became a teenager. And I used to tell him that, and I would be just sitting swinging, and he'd be holding me like I'm like a 5-year-old. And my goal was to kill him. I became so violent and so angry and messed up on drugs by about the age of 14, involved in a gang. I became so violent that I got kicked out of high school, and no high school would allow me to come back. So the cool thing is this, because of mature minors, entrance exams and stuff like that. I am a doctor, and yet I still don't have a high school diploma.

And that's where you and I connect, because I also dropped out after 11th grade.

And so people say, well, yeah, but what do you know about trauma? You're a doctor, you're obviously successful. I'm like, okay, so let's start with my childhood. But I said, let's just go back the last 10 years. I said, I, I fortunately, I led my father and my brother to the Lord. I only had my immediate family, my mom, my dad, my brother, and I. We had no other And everybody was in England. And so, you know, I didn't grow up with cousins and stuff like that. But I said, my dad died in my arms a few years ago. Then my brother died in my arms a couple years later. I found my wife, who had an emotional disorder, who committed suicide. Last year, my daughter died. Oh, and to make things even better, my mom just passed away Christmas Eve last week.

Oh, absolutely.

So I get trauma, and you know what my response is? But God is good.

Wow.

But he's so good because it— it— I, I don't— like I, I said in the, the deep dive we did on intimidation versus enthusiasm, I don't deny my feelings. I'd like— I feel grief, I feel pain, I get that. But, but I don't look at what the Lord has not done. Or the negative he's doing. I'm like, but this is what the Lord is doing. I'm breathing. I'm alive. I get to know him. My God, he would let me know him. And you know, it's interesting that so then somebody says, okay, well, that's spiritual crap, and that's not me. I'm I'm a doctor. Say okay. So did you know that gratitude and thankfulness raises it lengthens the telomeres on your DNA chain, which is responsible for youth? And a whole multitude of healing. I said, did you also know that there is a drastic increase in immunoglobulin A when gratitude's present? Well, what is that? And said, well, you're the doctor, you don't know? I said, it is one of the greatest immune fighters and builders there is. And you being thankful and gratitude increases your immunoglobulin A levels.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Can I doctor out on that? During COVID when I would do stool testing, like nobody had any IgA levels left. They were all just so depleted. Like nobody was producing immunoglobulins. We were just in this chronic state of negativity.

Yeah.

Wow. Thank you for sharing that. Because people look at someone like you, you're so smart, you're so successful, and you have such deep wisdom. Yet you have been through the lowest of lows. And you are here just glorifying God through all of it. So, like, that literally is the answer to all of this crap, isn't it? All the trauma, like, Christ overcomes all of it.

Absolutely. And you know what I love is, and I've said this to many people, God created science and fulfills science, therefore, he's not scared of it. So, you know, when I talk about neural connections, every once in a while, I get somebody try to rebuke and cast the devil out of me because I'm talking about neurochemistry and I should be talking about Jesus. I'm like, but Jesus isn't scared of neurochemistry. He's okay with it, and he designed the body, and your body functions this way, and optimizing the health of the body is part of his plan. That's why he tells us to take care of our temple and not to align our temple with things that are going to be unhealthy, or, you know, spiritually or physically. So I said, like, God just loves neuroscience.

Yeah.

And neuroscience loves God. And what I think is so cool is I am running into more and more researchers, doctors, top scientists globally that are, that are just saying God is becoming more and more real. Do you know how many times I spent sitting in the back in grad school and neuroscience classes in tears? As I heard how the human body was made, I'm like, I— yeah, how do you say there's no God?

Yeah.

Like, how does that happen? He is so amazing. He's so beautiful. How can you not just close your eyes and give thanks? You know, and again, circumstances happen. They happen in life, you know. But, but, but I'm not living for this moment. I'm living for eternity. And, you know, for all the things that I may have suffered, I'm not suffering. I'm really happy. Like, I'm enjoying my life. Uh, God is good. He is so good. You know, it's so ironic. I'll just say this, Tabitha. When my daughter died a year ago, 95% of the people— and so we're having my mom's funeral this Monday. I'm like, this is going to be great. But 95% of the people at my daughter's funeral funeral, were at my wife's funeral, her mom.

Hmm.

And I said, you know, folks, I said, isn't it ironic that here we are again? And I said, the majority of you that are here tonight, thank you, you were here for her mom, my wife's funeral as well. So I said, I guess I'm supposed to give a speech. So can I just say to you tonight what I said to all of you a dozen years ago? God is so good.

Wow. And I think you can say that because you have used your test as a testimony. You have seen that God turns everything into good.

Yeah.

You know, like, nothing is wasted. You cannot mess things up. Nothing is wasted. And—

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, I'm so grateful for you sharing that. Yeah, this is a really good conversation.

There's going to be so many women who are listening to this, and they're getting those aha light bulb moments like that's me. What is something that you would say to them right now?

So a couple of things I would say, and I say these honestly and not as a commercial. You know when I when I met you, Tabitha, New York. And then I asked Taylor, when you said about doing a podcast, I said, hey, buddy, tell me about Tabatha. Not, is there any red flags? Just tell me about her. And he spoke so well of you. And then I did some of my research of what you do and who you are. I'm a researcher. Sorry, I've already scanned you, found you. I do everything but know your address. I'm saying all that to say that one thing I would say to women, and I think this is where the two of you come in, is please don't try to do this alone.

Yeah.

Not when there are such wonderfully skilled people like the two of you. So the first thing I would say to people is get a coach. Get a hold of Tabatha, get a hold of you guys, and, and get a coach. The second thing I would say is this, is make this commitment to the Lord It's a commitment that they, that they utilize in AA, and I really like it because I'll often hear people say, I don't know that I'm willing to do that, Russ. I'm like, I appreciate that honesty. Thank you. So would you ask this, or would you, would you pray this? Would you at least agree with me on this? Say, Lord, would you help me to be willing to become willing? You're not willing. That's okay. But would you be willing to become willing? Well, yeah, I guess. It's just like, I'm not, I'm not willing to do what you're asking me to do right now. It's okay. Are you willing to become willing if you could?

I love that.

Yeah, I can try that. And then God just is like, bingo! That's all I needed. I just needed that open door. So I would say transfer even unwillingness to a willingness to be willing. Number 2, get— or number 1, really get a coach. You guys, get you guys in their lives. You know, do more of these podcasts, more of the teaching of the stuff that you do. However I can serve and support you guys, I'm in, Tabitha. Totally in. The other thing is, is suggest to them get some really good material that's not just scientific, but some material that's going to help create an understanding and a level of awareness of what they've gone through, how it impacts them presently, and the potential for PTG, which is post-traumatic growth.

Yes. Excuse me.

I would say, you know, I found you through Novos Network, which is Taylor Welsh's network. And that has been huge for me because of the trainings and the teachings that he has in there from people like you and Apostle Issy and Jamie Winship and Dan Duvall. Like, I just dive deep, and now I love working on myself and just peeling back those layers, that vertical layer of not necessarily reliving traumas, but seeing where I have healing opportunities and getting unstuck and, you know, realizing I don't need to stay in the pit. So I've just—

Wow.

I'm with you. Like, you should always have a mentor or a coach no matter what your level. Like, I will always have people above me because I want that wisdom. I want that camaraderie and that support.

So I'm just like, well, you can't, you can't recover from the things that you're unwilling to uncover. And what a good coach or an individual like yourselves would do for your clients is you bring that outer objective set of lenses that can see what they can't see. When now they're faced out of that awareness with an opportunity, I get to uncover this now, and you'll actually uncover this with me, Doc. Yeah, we will. Wow, that's amazing. So now I have hope for recovery because I've had people that have helped me to uncover some things. And you know, and again, part of that process is constantly, constantly clearing away the shame, the debris of shame, and the whispers of the enemy, the the voice of the inner critic. that's always there and really get people on a path of identity to development, of finding out how absolutely awesome they are. I was at a, at a conference once and I was speaking and I talked about this scripture. I said, you know what, guys? I said, I just, I just really want to let you know at the offset of our healing event here, I said, I'm totally awesome. I'm really, really awesome and God loves me and I really love myself. Now, oh my gosh. Well, I had a charismatic made a beeline for me at the end of that message.

I bet, I bet.

And he just rebuked me like in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. I mean, he was going after my arrogance.

Wow.

And I said, that's not arrogance. I said, it's confidence. I said, I spent my life not knowing who I really was, so believing what the enemy told me. I said, I know who I am right now, and I'm awesome. And he's like, well, you can't be that good. I said, So God gave up his Son for nothing?

Oh, whoa.

And then he said, okay, you got me on that one. But he said, maybe you need to go home and reread what Paul says in Romans, that we shouldn't think more highly of ourselves than we ought to. I said, okay. I said, I'll tell you what, give me your number, let me call you. How about we read it together? Oh, he said, what do you mean? I said, well, what, what do you hear there? Because you just quoted the scripture to me. He said, we shouldn't think more highly, we shouldn't think highly of ourselves. That's pride, and pride creates a fall. I said, so what you hear is Paul saying, don't think highly of yourself. He said, yes. I said, but that's not what it says.

Right.

It says, don't think more highly of yourself than you ought to. He said, do you know what that means? He said, no. There's a measure of high thinking of myself I ought to think. I just shouldn't go beyond that. That's so— that when I'm actually thinking as high of myself as I ought to, that's actually the definition of pure humility. When I go beyond that and I think more highly of myself than I ought to, now I've just crashed into pride.

Yeah. Oh my gosh, like, you are literally explaining where we go wrong in church, where we misrepresent God's word and put our own lies around them and beliefs, and we just— we can derail our destiny because of it. We really can. So yeah.

We need to change what we do, how we do, how we preach. I'll never forget the guy who led me to the Lord. Like, I was such a misfit, Tabitha. Like, it was just scary. And this guy, but you are good. You are God's son. God loves you. He wants to be a father to you. I mean, just this guy was like Tony Robbins on steroids. With just how good I was. And then I got saved because I believed that, wow, like, God wants to be my Father. I want, I want that. I want a dad. So I get saved, and then he just almost does everything in his power to beat out of me everything that he was trying to tell me. And I asked him once, I said, can I ask you a question? I said, I thought I was really awesome and amazing and potentiated and all those things. He said, yeah. I said, then why, when I start to believe that, and I start to stand on that, you do everything you can to knock it out of me. I said, the very thing that you told me to get me saved is the very thing that you're trying to beat out of me now that I am. He said, well, I just don't want pride to creep in. And I said, so when did you become the guardian of God?

Oh.

When did any of us become the guardian of God?

Yeah.

I said, everything that you told me I was, I now am even more because now I'm saved and his Holy Spirit lives in me. And so we we we don't. I I love I love this program today because we haven't done a very good job within the church of handling traumatic people. We take courses on it and we'll hand out Gabor Mate books. I mean, he was my advisor. I know Gabor very well. Amazing. guy. But we, we're trying to educate ourselves on something, but not from a spiritual perspective where we can bring freedom. Right. And I think that we are stepping into this incredible opportunity in the next few years to really set the trauma captives free.

So good. I know, I— we could go on and on because our spirit will literally leave our bodies if we're traumatized enough, and we'll just be in our feelings, in our neurochemistry. And it's so important to invite our spirit back into the healing, invite the Holy Spirit to guide us. And you just— I truly believe that you have touched many women's hearts today and opened their minds to the possibility that, wait a second, Jeremiah 29:11 is right. Like, God does have plans and a future for me. And we need to seek the face of Christ. We, we just have— he has to be in this healing journey with us. So I am beyond grateful for you and everything you've been through. I don't wish that on my worst enemy, but look what you've done with it. It's so beautiful.

Thank you, Tabatha, for what you're doing, and for both of you and what you're doing and impacting lives. And I just celebrate that. And again, however I can best serve, count me in. We've got a tremendous, tremendous calling and mission ahead of us to bring the love and the healing of God to a traumatized world right now. And they are probably more, more open than they've ever been to hearing the message of how God can and wants to heal trauma.

Yes, absolutely. Oh my gosh, if this has touched you, please check out the show note links. You can work directly with Dr. Russ. He is in Novos Network as an amazing teacher. His courses in there have changed me for the good. I'm just so excited to bring this to you, and I know that you were blessed today. So go be Christ's hands to serve, and I will see you ladies next week. But thank you, Dr. Ross. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you.

Awesome. Thanks, Dr. Tabitha. Thanks, Ashley. Thanks to all of you, and have an amazing rest of your day and weekend. Thank you.

Thanks. Bye. Bye.