Episode 24- Everyday Wellness with Cynthia Thurlow

Hi, I'm Dr. Tabitha, the functional gynecologist. I'm a board certified, OB, GYN and functional medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey and I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. So if you're struggling with hormone imbalance, weight gain, period issues, anxiety, insomnia, you name it, then you've come to the right place. I want to be your functional gynecologist. So welcome. I'm really honored to have my guest on today. Her name is Cynthia Thurlow. She is a sought after successful entrepreneur, nurse practitioner, intermittent fasting and nutrition expert, founder of Cynthia Thurlow llc, co author of Primal Eating and co host of a podcast called Everyday Wellness. I first found Cynthia through her TEDx talk on YouTube and I was blown.

Away by by how graceful and honest.

And wise this woman was. You're gonna love listening to her today. Her bio reads, as an advocate for living a fulfilled, healthy and well balanced lifestyle, Cynthia has committed her career to serving women. Coming of age, she's disrupting the notion that this is just how it is and now settle and accept it. She's leading the way for change. As part of that endeavor, Cynthia brings over 20 years of medical experience combined with current and progressive nutritional perspectives and approaches to truly serve those in need. She provides hope and customized programs that work. So I want you to go on her website, cynthia thurlow.com and check that out. Like I said, she has been a TEDx speaker twice. Her second talk reached 5.3 million views and it was on intermittent fasting. She's been a guest on numerous podcasts including the JJ Virgin Reignite Wellness Show, Natalie Jill's Leveling Up 365 Driven with Tony Watley, Low Carb MD podcast with Drs. Tro and Les, Kiss and the University of Adversity to name a few. She's been featured on ABC, Fox 5, KTLA, Pixel 11, Medium and Entrepreneur magazine and speaks on intermittent fasting, hormonal health, fat loss, self care, and the power of whole food nutrition, carb cycling, adaptogenic herbs, digestive health, and more. She's worked with thousands of individuals with a commitment to live their lives not just holistically, but wholly balanced and genuinely fulfilled. So I am super humbled and honored to interview Cynthia today.

So.

So I know that you'll enjoy this and you'll get a ton of useful information out of our conversation. So here we go.

Well, welcome Cynthia. Thanks for being on the Functional Gynecologist podcast.

Thanks so much for having me. It's really my pleasure.

Yeah, you are just a wealth of knowledge. And the first time I saw you, I had mentioned in the intro was on your TEDx talk. It was super impressed just how grounded you were and how sure you were of yourself and that you weren't afraid to just get out there and help other women. I just, that, you know, rings true to me. So how long have you been in the wellness space?

Yeah, so I'm traditionally trained in Western medicine, So I did 16 years as an NP in cardiology. And I think it was really when I had children that it kind of shifted my focus a bit. I mean, I. There's obviously a need for western medicine and I'm not being critical of it, but there's not a lot of emphasis on food and nutrition and wellness. I was trained in preventative medicine, but that's not a lot of what you do in cardiology. It's more reflexive, it's after the fact. And so I think when my oldest developed really significant life threatening food allergies that it caused me to take a little bit of a closer look at how we are living our lifestyle, which was always healthy by normal standards, but really looking and taking a deeper dive, looking at the influence of nutrition on health and wellness and recognizing that the processed food industry is not doing us any benefits and it's largely leaving us a sick, obese and disease society. So I think that's really where it stemmed from. And then the longer I was practicing, I was more and more frustrated that I was not able to influence patients in the way that I wanted to. I was prescribing the medications and setting them up for tests and doing all the research based modalities that were expected of me. But my heart, the longer I was doing it just wasn't in it. And so I pivoted about four years ago and left clinical medicine to start an entrepreneurial journey. And what makes me laugh is I don't really think I knew what that looked like when I started. And so I kind of fell into female hormonal health because I was like many people in their 40s and perimenopause and felt like I got stuck and wasn't getting the answers that I desperately needed and wanted. And so I started creating programs and all of the women that were coming to me were coming to me with the same questions, concerns and issues. And so from there just continued to find opportunities to be able to serve women in A greater capacity. And so that's how I stumbled into doing two TED talks, one of the ones that you mentioned. And so that's really been exciting to feel like the work I'm doing now is perhaps more impactful than what I was ever doing before. And then having an opportunity to meet so many people from all over the United States and elsewhere that are in the same mindset. I don't feel like I'm a duck out of water anymore. I think for a few years I did. And a lot of my nurse practitioner and physician colleagues would kind of scratch their heads and were like, okay, well, she's kind of getting this out of her system and eventually it'll go away, but it really hasn't. It's become truly a life of its own. And so I'm very, very grateful that I took that leap of faith. But that's a bit on how I came to, you know, this kind of circuitous journey to where I am now.

Yeah, I love that. Oh my gosh, I totally felt out of place and alone in the conventional medical world once I started focusing on my diet and my lifestyle and, you know, practicing prevention and wellness. And they looked at me like I was crazy. So it does feel so good to finally find other people like you who are doing it and you're rocking it like you are just helping so many women. It's amazing. For my listeners, will you explain the difference between a nutritionist or dietitian and a functional nutritionist? Because when I first started on this journey, the first thing I did was clean up my diet. I got rid of that standard American diet and it made such a huge impact on how I felt overall and getting my autoimmune disease under control. I just, I want people to understand that it's not like your typical government food pyramid and following the ADA recommendations, like, tell me the difference.

Yeah, that's a great question. So traditionally changed registered dietitians or RDs or nutritionists work off of the food guide pyramid. They work off of USDA recommendations. They are more traditionally trained in a very grain and gluten free heavy diet. They're not focused on. And I'm not being critical, I want to be really clear about that. Much like what traditional Western medicine trained providers are not really taught much in terms of nutrition. They're looking at things through a very narrow lens. And so when I look at functional training, we're looking at root cause, we're looking a bit deeper, we're looking at quality of food, we're looking. There's A great book called Pottinger's Cats, talking about the evolution of the quality of a cat's diet and the diseases that came from that diet or not. And so from a functional perspective, we're looking a bit deeper. We're not just dealing with symptoms, we're looking at root causes. And for example, if someone came to me when I was functioning in my traditional role with sleep issues, I would just prescribe something to make them sleep. I wouldn't be looking to see, is it a blood sugar issue? Is there too much stress in their personal lives? Are they eating the wrong combinations of macros like protein, fat and carbohydrates? So I always say that someone who's functionally trained, whether it's a nurse, physician, registered dietitian, et cetera, they're going to look at things through a different lens. They're going to be looking at bio individuality, which means they're going to be looking at you as an individual, not just as every woman over the age of X gets these things. Every man over the age of X gets these things. And that's really how we were trained. I was explaining to someone the other day that in cardiology I prescribed antihypertensives all the time, so blood pressure lowering medication. And I used to tell people that I started to recognize that you could have 10 people with a diagnosis of high blood pressure and you had to treat each person as their own individual. And so that was so out of context from the way that I was trained. It was like, this is the frontline drug to use. And then if that doesn't work, you add this drug and that doesn't work. You add this drug. And, you know, I came to understand that a lot of medicine is like cooking, meaning, you know, sometimes you have to add a little bit more of this spice and a little less of this to make things work. But recognizing that we are all bio individuals. And so, you know, from a broad stroke perspective, when I think about functionally trained providers versus traditionally Western medicine trained providers as separate buckets, root cause versus symptom management, that's the easiest way to differentiate them. And I think we really do our patients a huge disservice if we aren't looking at them as individuals. Different genetics, different stress management styles, different level of physical activity, sleep quality, et cetera. And the food piece is absolutely instrumental. You had mentioned that you had an autoimmune disorder that was improved by changing your diet. And for me, I love telling people this story. Twenty years ago, I was diagnosed with LYME and I was treated appropriately, thank God. What I developed six months after having a round of antibiotics with psoriasis. And I had that for years. And it would flare when I got stressed. And I was taking topical steroids and I just thought it was something I had to live with and on my own. I decided to go gluten free. And all of a sudden when I went gluten free, my psoriasis went away. And my dermatologist was stunned. Like she loves telling people, I have a patient who got off of all their steroids because they went gluten free. And I said, if we then understand what happens when we take antibiotics, that we develop this hyperpermeability of the small intestine, which makes us more susceptible to developing autoimmune disorders. Why wouldn't we want to be looking at things differently? Like, I don't want to be on medication chronically unless I absolutely have to be. And I think that we really owe it to our patients to look at things through a different lens. I mean, I think that's ultimately what it comes down to. And I think it's really critical that we evolve, shift, and change as providers and humans. Like, we can't remain rigid in our dogma. That is one of the things that I've been most my dogs. That is one of the things that I've had to really struggle with, is that some people are so rigid in their dogma and it could be about anything that they aren't willing to think outside the box. Like, I regularly get into spirited conversations on Twitter, for example, because there are some people who are so rigid about their nutritional dogma and calories in, calories out, and breakfast being the most important meal of the day. And I just remind them, I'm like, part of being a clinician is being open minded. Like, we are ultimately trained to be scientists or at least be curious about it might be an n of 1 or an n of 2, but we still want to be looking and trying new things and being open minded and receptive and we want to have a curious mind. I tell my children all the time that you want to be a lifelong learner. It's really important to be open minded about alternative perspectives and ideologies.

Yeah, definitely. I think that's where a lot of clinicians go wrong, is they get their training, they go out into practice, and then they practice the same way for 20 or 30 years. And, you know, what I learned in medical school was already outdated when they taught it to me. And so if I'm Sitting here practicing that 15 years later, how outdated am I? We need to follow the research. We need to change and be open, like you're saying, to what we don't know, because I think we know about 1%, really. You know, there's so much that we don't know it's ever evolving, and we need to put the egos aside and say, hey, you know what? I don't know everything, and it's okay. But I'm gonna keep learning, and I'm gonna keep bringing you the latest information, and we're gonna try to get you better, you know?

Yeah. So I think that humility is really critical, that we have to. And it's okay. Like, I even tell some of my patients now sometimes I don't know, but I'm gonna find out the answer. And, you know, being a lifelong learner is part of acknowledging there's no way we could know everything about everything. Just abso way.

Exactly. So if your doctor is saying that this is the way and they know best, then you probably want to find somebody else, right? Yes. So on your website, you work with women and you coach them. You say bio. Individuality is key. Tell me about your coaching program.

Yeah, so I've started to scale back on my one on ones. I do still work with a very small group of women, probably less than 15, that I meet with usually anywhere from every four to six weeks, sometimes longer. Sometimes we're in a maintenance program, but I have a couple of group programs that I design in response to needs. One's called holistic blueprint, which is what I believe to be foundational to women's health and women north of 35 and beyond, kind of walking them through critical areas that they need to focus on, things as simple as sleep and hydration. And a lot of us, we never talk to our patients about that, ever. But really starting it foundationally, and then each week, kind of building on that, I've got an intermittent fasting program that's all done online. I also have a program which we're in the midst of renaming, called find your inner goddess, but it's essentially kicking sugar to the curb. And I'm sure there are a lot of women that are listening to this that probably completely understand that sugar addiction is real, and it's not something to be taken lightly that, you know, sugar infiltrates so much of our lives that it's really a huge issue and hugely inflammatory. So those are the typical kind of broad programs that I'm doing that I do throughout the year. It just depends And I think it's interesting. We were in the midst of a big launch for Holistic Blueprint when Covid started to kind of pick up steam. And so everyone that registered for the program, we kept saying, you know, we're not going anywhere. We just want to kind of get through, you know, the next six weeks or so, reevaluate things. We're hoping to open registration again in May and then start the program probably in May or June. But, yeah, I run those programs throughout the year, which is a lot of fun. I do everything online so people can join from anywhere in the United States. And we've even got a few that are in Europe, which is really fun.

Oh, that's awesome. So women are seeking you out for nutritional guidance, help with their sugar addictions. You know, I see a lot of women in my office who insist that they can't get off the sugar. You know, like, don't even bother trying to change my diet, because it has a hold on me. And what would you say to that? That woman who, you know, feels like she can't even stop eating that stuff?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think a lot of it's baby steps. And some people are ready to pay you money but aren't ready to do the work, Meaning they acknowledge they have a problem. They know they have a problem. They know they need support, and they're not ready to do the work. So when someone starts using those limiting beliefs of, you know, it's got too strong of a hold on me. I can't do this. And I just say, what would your life be like differently? You know, wouldn't it be nice to have consistent energy throughout the day? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to sleep? Wouldn't it be nice to not feel like you are. You have a monkey on your back, that you're not driven by cravings, and you're driven by a strong desire to fuel your body appropriately. And so we really start from there. And I always remind people that small changes have a big impact. I find that for a lot of women, they need to do testing to really provide some conceptual basis, like food sensitivity testing and the GI map, which is a powerful stool test that you can look for. It's common to see dysbiosis or underlying candida if someone's got a really, really strong sugar addiction, that there are gut microbiome imbalances or even the Dutch, which I'm sure you're familiar with, looking at, you know, sex hormones and melatonin and cortisol and things like that, that can influence all of that. But I remind people, you know, what are their desires, what are they hoping to achieve? I try to redirect their focus and just reminding them that part of our work together, whether it's a group or one on one, is really helping them, you know, write their own, write their own kind of prescription, if you will, for what health and wellness is. You know, some people don't do well with elimination diets because they're just not ready to do the work. Other people, once they pull those inflammatory foods out, all of a sudden they feel so much better that it just reinforces continued good habits. And so I like to remind people, what ultimately do you want? I have a lot of women that will say, I never had a weight problem until I hit perimenopause. And then all of a sudden it's like they've got insulin resistance, their sleep is terrible, their stress levels are out the door, and they over exercise. And so trying to find, you know, some common ground about how we can start changing some of these things. And it can be as simple as getting someone to sleep seven to eight hours a night with high quality sleep. Like again, going back to foundational principles that are really, really critical for, you know, health and wellness. And it could be something as simple. So I would say let's start small. Small, you know, small steps have, can ultimately add up to big gains, but let's start small and achievable. Let's master that and then we add something else.

Yeah, I, I can attest to the sleep situation. As an obstetrician. You know, I didn't sleep for a couple decades, and when I finally made it a priority, you know, that along with changing my diet, I was actually able to get control of how I felt, you know, and that was really empowering. So I want women out there to know that you do have a choice in how you feel and your habits can definitely change that. Once I got some sleep and I started eating the right foods and healing my gut, like you said, I wasn't a slave to the sugar. It wasn't talking to me all day long anymore. And I love that you use what you're eating, but also when you're eating as an important part of managing symptoms. So let's talk about intermittent fasting a little bit. When did you start getting into that?

Yeah, it was almost five years ago. It was funny, I had a week where in the, in the midst of conversations with three women in my life, that topic kept coming up. And so being the Typical person I am, I'm like, I need to do my research. I bought a book. I bought Jason Fung's book, read that, and then started doing it. And I felt like it gave me my life back in many ways. I've never been. I would never die. I would never say that I was ever obese. But with perimenopause, I put on ten pounds, which, when you're five foot three, makes a big difference in how you feel. And so my sleep was terrible. I was over exercising. My job in cardiology was super stressful. My husband traveled. And so the only thing that I could really control at that point as a starter was, okay, I'm not going to eat breakfast. And so I stopped eating breakfast. And then all of a sudden, it went to two meals a day. And then my sleep got better, and I was feeling so much better. And I did it in elimination diet. And so for me, it really gave me more energy, more mental clarity. I definitely helped lose some weight, which I always jokingly say, everyone comes intermittent fasting for weight loss, but they stay for all the other benefits. And then I just started to do my n of 1 became a topic that I started discussing with my patients. People really influenced by what I was saying on social media, as well as with my own patient population, my family, a lot of people were influenced to try it, and people were like, gosh, I feel great. I feel like I probably felt when I was 25, except now I know so much more. Although my chronologic age is in my 40s, I like to think that I probably feel as good as I did in my late 20s, early 30s. And so I just think that it's an incredible strategy, and it's free and flexible, and that's really key. There's so much of what goes on in our daily lives costs money, or it's a powder or a potion or a gimmick. And so this is something that not only can clinicians learn about to use as a strategy with their patients, but it's something that they themselves can do. And so I think when you start looking at the research on intermittent fasting, it really is, I call it the proverbial fountain of youth, but it has the benefits of being able to really harness some powerful opportunities to support our bodies. Much more so than spiking insulin throughout the day, because we're eating three or four or six meals a day, Which, I mean, it makes my head spin when I think about how much of a sugar burner I was, because I would go to the gym and drink a shake. And then when I left the gym, I drank a shake. And then when I got to work, I'd eat a small meal, and then in between seeing patients, I'd eat something, and then I'd eat lunch, and then I'd have a snack in the afternoon and then dinner. And I was like, gosh, I was stoking this insulin release all day long. And maybe that was okay in my 20s and 30s, but not in my 40s. Man, I got to change the game. And I'm like, I'm going down fighting. I'm not going to accept that I have to feel fat and frumpy, which is exactly how I felt because I hadn't ever dealt with that before. I just felt really inflamed and couldn't sleep and didn't feel great. So that's how it started. But obviously it's evolved into a lot more.

Yeah. And I try to tell my patients, you're not going to lose weight as long as you keep giving your body fuel in the form of food and sugar. That is what they're going to burn. They're never going to tap into your fat stores. And I find that some women have a harder time transitioning into getting back into being a fat burner. You know, it's how we were created to be. That's how our ancestors lived. So it's possible. It's just that we have retrained our body in bad way to utilize this constant food that we have available. So what would you say is like the beginning steps? You know, I like how you say baby steps to get onto this. I usually tell my patients, let's push breakfast back an hour or two and then get to the point where we skip it. Is that usually what you're starting with your clients? Yeah.

So I typically say, you know, if you eat dinner at six o' clock at night and you have breakfast at eight, you've already fasted 14 hours. So I think people are reassured because in their minds, they think they're going to die. I'm going to die if I don't eat breakfast. And so I usually say, okay, if you're already doing this for 14 hours, let's try 14 and a half hours. And so baby steps forward. Always trying to aim for 16 hours. That's kind of the starting point. I encourage people to try to get there. Some people, they're like a duck to water. They go from 12, 13, 14 hours to 16 very easily. Others, it may take them three or four weeks to become fat adapted. And so again, it goes back to bio individuality, checking in with yourself when you're fasted. Your stomach may be growling, but that's okay. You should have more mental clarity, you should have more energy. If you don't, if you are consistently dragging, it might not be the right strategy at that point in time. And I think it's also really critical to mention to people baby steps with regard to fasting and feeding windows, but making sure that you're starting to make small, subtle shifts about how you're fueling your body. Really focusing on protein first. That is the most important macronutrient in my humble opinion. And so also really important and critical when people are getting older. You know, sarcopenia, which is this muscle wasting that occurs, really starts to escalate after age 40. So protein and some healthy fats and then earn your carbohydrates. Like it should not be that we sit down and we have this massive plate of pasta or a massive plate of rice, because it's not that. First of all, we technically don't need carbohydrates. And that's not an opinion that people like to hear. We need protein and healthy fat. So carbs should be earned, carbs should be quantity should not be exorbitant. And by that it means a third of a cup, a half a cup of sweet potato or rice or quinoa if you tolerate grains. I'm a huge fan of getting more vegetable based root vegetables. Squash, sweet potato, potatoes are more of where I kind of gravitate towards really looking at how your body responds to carbohydrates, how it feels. There's a really great book called Wired to Eat by Rob Wolfe. I strongly encourage people, if they're interested in learning more about their carb tolerance, to really look at that book because it can be highly helpful. I find, like I have two. Well, one's 12, one's 14. But my boys are, their metabolisms are like hummingbirds. So obviously they can eat a whole lot more carbohydrates than I can. But even for themselves, they're not competitive swimmers right now. They're out of the pool, they're not doing CrossFit, they're not playing football. They are active, but not as much as they were. And so we're educating them about their bodies. Okay, let's focus on the protein first, then let's make sure you've got a healthy fat and then add in the carbohydrate. And so I think that's a reasonable discussion to have and it's baby steps. It may be that you experiment with what kinds of proteins make your body feel good for one person, maybe like leaner proteins, like maybe they do better with fish and poultry and someone else does better with red meat. But really focusing on those things first when you're putting your meals together and then carbs should be the last thing you're thinking about. Unless it's non starchy carbs, like regular vegetables, that's fine.

Yeah, I try to go for a lean protein and then two vegetables and one's more carb based. Right. Instead of like, oh, I need to have rice with this, or noodles, you know, you don't need to have that starchy side that is typical with dinner. I think that's super important to realize. Do you do any testing or do you advocate for checking your ketones and your gluten when you're kind of going through this transition?

Do I do testing? Yes, I do testing with my patients. And so I like to, I mean, I do some traditional western medicine lab work. I like to look at a CBC and a chem panel and I like to look at fasting insulin and glucose and LDH and hemoglobin A1C to kind of see like, what's their blood sugar control like. I do use some of the functional tests that I mentioned, you know, the Dutch, the GI map and food sensitivity testing. I don't test for ketones. I kind of feel like, and this is like the non scientific way is that you know that you're fat adapted when you're able to get through your morning and you have plenty of mental clarity, you're not feeling like your energy is dragging. And so I think a lot of times people get very reliant on test strips to determine if they're in ketosis. And so I feel like it's one more thing to be thinking about. Now for some people, when they first start doing a lower carb diet or carb cycling or ketogenic diets, they want that validation and that's okay. But I don't want people using that as the be all, end all long term. I think it's fine for the short term, much like I think it's fine to track your macros for the short term. But I want people to eat more intuitively. Meaning, okay, today is a higher carb day. So my body is telling me it needs a little bit more sweet potato and maybe a little less healthy fat and maybe a little bit more protein as opposed to people becoming a slave to an app on their phone about food. Like, sometimes I feel like some of the apps, as helpful as they can be, I think sometimes the apps can be. It can be one more thing where maybe if someone has compulsive tendencies, it can make them feel like it's one more thing they have to be on top of. So I think it's fine. And initially, if people want to be testing to see if they're in ketosis, I think that's fine. Initially, if people want to be testing, I do use glucometers with some frequency, largely because a lot of the women that are coming to me because of just by where they are in their life cycle, they're perimenopausal, so they're more prone to insulin resistance. I do use glucometers because I think it's valuable to say to them, if your waking blood sugar is 100, we've got work to do. If your waking blood sugar is 115, we've got work to do. Here's the irony. This is how long I've been in Western medicine. When I left my NP program in 2000, which is a long time ago, the high limit for fasting glucose was 140. Now we wanted 80 to 90. It gives you some idea that we're learning lower blood sugar control is better, and we certainly don't want to be insulin resistant. I do use glucometers, and I use that throughout the time that I work with women. I think that's really, really valuable because it provides them with some control. Like, they get up in the morning, they stick their finger and they're like, okay, my Sugars are between 80 and 90. This is exactly where I should be. This is good. I'm making progress. I'm heading in the right direction.

Yeah, I think it's a great tool to help start to understand and then listen to your body and try to match the two together. Until you said you have this more intuitive eating ability, that you know what you need and that's when you eat, and it's not because of cravings, that type of thing. So it can be a great tool to start out with, but I definitely don't think you should rely solely on it. What are some of the setbacks that you see your patients having when they're transitioning into fasting? Do they have certain complaints or issues that you see time and time again?

Yeah, great question. So most commonly it's, I can't sleep. And sometimes that can be because they're not getting their Macros in during their feeding window. And I think one of the common things that happens, we as women don't eat enough protein. Protein is very satiating and they're not getting their proper macros in. So I don't like to use the word calorie, I just say macros. You're not getting in two good sized meals in a six or an eight hour feeding window. And that impacts their sleep. So they're waking up, they're having trouble falling asleep, or they're waking up between 1 and 4am, which tells me it could be a blood sugar issue, or it could be their blood sugar gets so low that it's stimulating their adrenals to secrete a hormone called cortisol. So sleep is one, energy can be another. Although not as common, I would say that the third one is probably related to hydration. So a lot of times when people are starting off with intermittent fasting, they're not getting those extra electrolytes in potassium, magnesium, chloride and sodium. And so I remind them that sometimes when they're having all that hunger, that for many people makes them uncomfortable psychologically makes them uncomfortable because they feel like if their stomach's growling, they should immediately be eating, because that's what we've been conditioned to believe. And so reminding them that a lot of what they need to do to address that physiologic and psychological experiences surrounding hunger is to make sure they're staying really well hydrated and that they're getting in their electrolyte. So I definitely have some tips and tricks around that. But I think one of the really critical things is making sure they're staying really well hydrated while they're fasted. Those are the three most common things that I see, which you can generally easily work around. Now, obviously it's more concerning if someone tells me that their fingers and their toes are getting really cold or they get shaky. A lot of times that can be blood sugar related. If they're feeling like they don't have more energy, they have less, then I usually will have them stop. And then I always say, this doesn't mean that you can't ever do intermittent fasting. It just means right now your body's not ready. And so that's how we kind of work around it. But I think that a lot of people are so desperate to get gains or to lose weight with intermittent fasting that they want to make it work, even if it doesn't work for them. And so occasionally I do encounter women, and men for that matter, that it Just doesn't agree with them. And I just remind them that that's okay. You know, sometimes there are people that need to start off having three good sized meals a day and then at a later point in time we can kind of reinvestigate whether or not it's a good technique for them.

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, some people are dealing with, you know, toxins in their system that they need to do a detox program. They're having some other reason why their body doesn't want to tap into those fat stores and, and release that. So I think that's a good point. Like that's why it's so important to find a functional practitioner to work with and have clear guidance and not just be off on your own willy nilly trying things. Because it can be dangerous.

It can. And I think, you know, for example, I was telling my team, we had a team meeting and I said, I don't love the word detox when it's used inappropriately because our bodies detox every day. You know, we defecate, we urinate, we breathe, we sweat, and our bodies do that naturally. But in the context that you and I are talking about, a supervised detox is very different than sometimes I hear that word used. And I think people don't understand that some of these products that are utilized for these kinds of things. You have to work with someone that actually understands that there are multiple phases of detoxification in the liver. And if one gets sped up and the other next phase is not working efficiently, that can be hugely problematic. And I love that you mentioned why sometimes our bodies will hold on to weight. It could be related to toxins, as you mentioned. And I always like to think I worked with someone a few years ago and they didn't realize that there were multiple phases of detoxification in the liver. And they had put me on this protocol. And within a week I was nearly suicidal and felt awful and was exhausted. And my functional medicine provider, who I went to, I then developed a relationship with, after I went through this whole situation, said, oh, it's because your mother probably had a lot of mercury amalgams. And then when you were in utero, you kind of absorbed some of this mercury. And now these mercury levels in my body were so high. And when they were putting me through this very rigorous detox, my body just literally was like, could not handle one more thing. And so once all the products were stopped and I was worked with this functional medicine trained physician, I was fine. But it really brought to light that putting someone through a detox whose body is not ready to do that can be harmful and definitely makes me very, very sensitive to some of the experiences that we go through as clinicians as well as our inpatient population too.

Yeah, definitely. That's a great point. And you mentioned the Dutch test earlier. I do that for, for a lot of my patients because it gives us such great information about how our detox system is working in our liver. Right. So we can see are we having a buildup of the more concerning estrogen metabolites as opposed to the good estrogen that keeps us balanced. And so there's definitely testing out there that we can see how are we functioning? You know, it's not just, hey, your liver enzymes on your blood panel look normal. You know, that's what I used to tell patients. I'd be like, oh, they're fine. Even worse, they're slightly elevated. But it's nothing concerning because you don't have fatty liver. Right. So you didn't have an actual diagnosis yet, but you were trending. And now we realize that it's so much more important to stop that trend as soon as it starts. And so we can do testing to look at how is your detoxifications pathways. And it's just so important to work with people like you and I to make sure that's happening.

Absolutely.

Tell me a little bit more about your holistic wellness or I'm sorry, your holistic blueprint program. Is that the group program that you mentioned?

Yeah, it's one of the group programs that I have. We now call it WB 2.0. So you know, I always say we evolve, shift and change and I tinker with programs, you know, maybe things need to be longer, maybe things need to be shorter. And so now it's an eight week program, all done online. Each week has a different focus. And so it starts off with sleep and hydration and then we dive into kind of a broad based elimination diet with intermittent fasting. Then we dive into digestion, the endocrine system, which obviously all of us know is so important. And then we talk about toxins and personal care products, environment and food, which I think a lot of people don't know about. And then we talk about self care. I mean, how many women don't do enough self care? Enough focus on, we're always giving to others and then not realizing that ultimately we need to serve ourselves first. So it's a really comprehensive program. We do a lot of great group calls and it's actually I always call it like my flagship program because it's the first one that I created, but it's also the one that's still near and dear to my heart. Because each component of that program really, if women really understand and they listen to what's taught to them and we do the group calls and they implement changes, can really provide them with a very different long term perspective. We don't do testing in the program. That's more for the one on ones. I think it's hard as a clinician to have a large group of people and offer testing too, because it takes time, as you know, I mean, even the Dutch test, I always tell people, you know, it's even, even with experience, it takes an hour to review it, come up with a plan, create a plan, and then you've got to meet with someone privately. And it's a, it's a complicated test. This is why it's important for people to work with someone that actually has the training to interpret the test. Because I always say, gosh, how many of those did I actually run before I ever even offered it and took a class that took me a couple months to finish. The point being, testing is super valuable, but you have to work with someone that has the training to interpret the test, otherwise it's a very expensive test. And you don't want to make that investment in paying for the test and not get great results. That's really what it comes down to. People in the wellness space that order functional diagnostic testing who don't have the training and sometimes they end up on my doorstep. I'm sure you see them too. And I always kind of feel badly because I know that person spent a lot of money having the test done and spent a lot of money on the person interpreting it. And I'm giving a completely different perspective on the testing itself. And I always tell my own patients, I'm like, listen, I'm not going to order a test unless you need it. Or I think that there's going to be some value from information that we get from it. But I do find that tests like the Dutch, sometimes for people who don't want to gear their life back, they're the super type A, super intense, don't want to sleep over, exercising, restrictive food eating when they get the results and their melatonin's really, really low. And I keep telling them, I need you doing sleep hygiene, I need you using blue blockers, I need you going to bed earlier and not doing such intense exercise. And sometimes when you can quantify like this is what your body is doing right now. And this isn't, this isn't contrived. We didn't make these numbers up. You know, really trying to demonstrate or show them that, you know, your body perceives that you're being chased by a saber toothed tiger. You know, and we're not back in cavemen and cave woman days. This is modern day society. And for a lot of us, you know, our bodies perceive that we're under duress and stress and so really, really critical to make sure that we're taking care of our bodies as best we can.

Yeah, I think that's really important that we realize we are just doing that rushing women syndrome. We're all over busy, we're just doing too much. I. Oh, sorry. I'm having a brain block.

That happens. Glad to know it doesn't just happen to me.

No, it doesn't. And the funny thing is I am going on like 22 hours of fast Dr. Right now. And so I kept thinking this would be a good testament to see if I can keep my brain clear and see if it's working for me or not. So obviously it's not working the greatest.

But is this what's the longest fast you've ever done?

I have done probably a day and a half. I don't know the hours, but it was about a day and a half, so. And I struggled through that. So, you know, this makes sense that I'm hitting the 22 hour mark or something like that.

And that's, that's a hard time for a lot of people. I even find for myself when I do a 24 hour, I'm usually fine till about 20 hours. The last four hours can be challenging for sure.

Yeah, yeah. And that's when you know to cut it out and go eat some nice protein and healthy fats, right? Yep. Just wave the white flag. Call it good.

That's awesome.

Well, I've just loved listening to all your wisdom about how nutrition plays such a key role in women's health. And I want women to seek you out and work with you because I think you're amazing. So tell my listeners where they can find you.

Yeah, so I've got a great podcast called Everyday Wellness that you can find online. You can find me on my website, www.cynthia thurlow.com and I'm active on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. You can also find me on LinkedIn. Although I tend not to hang out there too much. And I'm slowly growing my YouTube chann kicking and screaming. I Just feel like it's hard to be all places and doing all the things. But I'm definitely would love to. And there's also I have a free Facebook group. It's Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle Backslash. My name that you can find me if you're interested in learning more about intermittent fasting. And I go in and do Facebook lives every week and try to offer up some content. Also allows me to use it as guinea pigging. I'm in the midst of writing a book, so allows me to have an opportunity to see what content really resonates with my ladies or not. And anyway, I would love to connect with any of your listeners online or via my website.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Definitely I'll have those links in my show notes and hopefully we'll connect again soon.

Sounds great.

Thank you. Bye.

You're welcome. Bye.

Well, how'd you like that faux pas? I had a total brain fart during my interview and and Cynthia was gracious enough to help me recover from that, but I went and ate some pistachio nuts. I guess 22 hours is my marker of. Hey, it's time to be done with intermittent fasting for today. I think that's just a really good lesson that it takes time to retrain your body to get into ketosis, burn fat for fuel, and be able to utilize that fuel as your energy. So my mind worked great for most of the day and then I kind of hit a wall. And so I think you need to be aware that that can happen. And when you're ready to break your fast, you want to be smart about it and eat healthy fats and lean proteins. You don't want to jump back in.

To any processed sugar for sure, or.

Simple carbohydrates, because that big spike in glucose is going to overshoot your pancreas secreting insulin. And you want it to be a smooth transition out of fat burning back into sugar burning. So it does matter how you break your fast. And I'm gonna have to do a whole episode on interview Intermittent fasting. It's obvious that we need to sit down and we need to talk about exactly how to do it and what the benefits are because the research is clear that it balances your hormones. It is great for mental clarity for weight loss, but you have to be smart about it and you have to know when to stop. So thanks for tuning in and listening to me. I hope you got a good laugh out of my little brain fart there. And if you still want to listen to me, hit the subscribe button and leave me a review. Five stars would be amazing. Shoot me your questions so I can shout you out on my question of the week on Fridays I want to serve you. This is why I'm doing this. So let me know what you want do to hear about and I will make it happen. So follow me on Instagram and Facebook @DrTabitha Dr. T A B A T H A no eyes, just A's and I will see you back here next week. So go out and have a kick ass week ladies. Bye.