How to Get a Supergut? With Marc Washington & Dr. Chris Damman

Hi, I'm Dr. Tabitha, the gutsy gynecologist. I'm a triple board certified, OB, GYN and Functional Medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey. And I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. After caring for thousands of women, I've come to realize that your gut health determines your gyne health and your overall health. And it's a super gutsy thing for me to go against conventional gynecology practice to bring you the truth. No more band aid medicine, ladies. We're talking root cause resolution on this show. So if you're struggling with hormone imbalance, weight gain period issues, anxiety, insomnia, you name it, then you've come to the right place. And I want to be your gutsy gynecologist. So welcome. Oh my goodness. I'm so excited about my guests today. Okay, ladies, like we're going next level. My guest, Mark Washington. He is the founder and CEO of Super Gut. But his background is crazy impressive. Mark has run million billion dollar companies like Irwin Naturals, Beachbody, which I'm sure you know is the fitness company Shakeology, P90X Beachbody on demand. He has run many highly successful companies and he is now on his mission with his new company, Super Gut. And he brought his Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Chris Damon with him. Chris is a gastroenterologist. So I'm really excited to talk to him because I know so, so many of you ladies have gone to the GI doctor only to be disappointed and really not helped. So this should give you hope. Listening to Dr. Damon, he's going to talk about the fact that people are studying the microbiome in conventional medicine. People are talking about it, Things are going to shift. Like, I was really encouraged listening to him because, you know, when I look at the current status of conventional medicine, I get very discouraged. But when I listen to Dr. Damon, he has worked with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. He led a $40 million gut health microbiome and functional medicine food initiative. So he is in the trenches. He is the one who is creating change and hopefully probably we're going to see that in our lifetime that conventional medicine does shift and the truth comes out and we start actually treating disease and healing people as opposed to just managing it with band aid solutions. So I loved this episode. I'm really encouraged by what Dr. Damon and Mark Washington are doing because just, I mean, even making products that address the gut microbiome in an Effort to feed the good microbiome and reestablish normal physiology in the gut. That is really cool. You know, we can take the probiotics. I often have women on gut healing regimens where we have to do things to kill off bad bacteria and to repair leaky gut and to support our microbiome. And probiotics are just one tiny piece of the puzzle. Those bacteria actually need to be fed. What we consume, they consume. And so we're going to talk about all that today. It's such a good conversation and it's not going to be over your head. Highly medical terminology, because that's not what I, you know, that's not what you guys need. So that's not what I bring you. So they are going to talk to you and explain carbohydrates and fiber and prebiotics, probiotics, postbiotics, all these things in a way that's easy for you to digest, pun intended, so that you can actually work on your gut health sometimes without seeing a functional medicine physician. You know, I encourage you to take back control of your health and do all of these things before you come to see me, because, you know, it's a deeper dive when you work with me and we do like a gut healing regimen or the Healthy her program, where we're, like, taking a comprehensive approach and really healing you. But you want to start with some basics that you can do at home, because more times than not, that really is all you need. I see that where women will clean up their diet, they will add the fiber back into their diet, they will take some supplements to really support their body, and they can make that shift, you know, so it's not always just about doing an elimination diet and then going back to your old way of living. Like, that's not how it works. We need to eliminate some things, but we also need to heal and repair and replace and restore. So I would encourage you to start this work on your own. If you haven't, try to make some cleaner, you know, choices throughout your day. If you have done all of this, this is what I hear every time, you know, I see a new patient. I've done all the things, or what I used to do is no longer working for me. Yes. Then you should, you know, schedule a call with my team and consider the Healthy her program, because that means we actively need to kill something off or replace something that you're not aware of. You need to be evaluated. You need to have testing done and look at what's actually going on and not Guess so. I did want to do a shout out to Rebecca. She was someone who recently went through the Healthy her program and she said, oh, my gosh, this was. Let's see, two months into it, she. She texted me and said, I've already lost 18 pounds. I haven't felt this good in 13 years. You gave me my life back, exclamation point. I didn't know I could feel this good exclamation point. So that just fills my heart. I want you to know that there is a way to feel amazing and maybe you can do it on your own. And I encourage you to try things, especially podcast episode you're going to listen to today. Like, get that knowledge and start incorporating it into your life. And then if you're still having issues, then you come see me and we do a deep dive and we look at all the stuff. Or if you're like, man, it's way past my gut, it's now onto my hormones and my adrenals and my thyroid, all that kind of stuff, then yeah, we might need to do a program and really help you transform. But I just want to throw that out there. Like, so much of this is in your control. It's in your hands. It's in the daily decisions that you're making all day long. All those little tiny decisions of whether or not to eat this or that, whether or not to take a walk or sit at your desk during lunch, whether or not to exercise in the morning, whether or not to drink alcohol with dinner. Like, all of these little decisions really determine the bulk of your overall health because it all affects your gut. So that's what we're going to talk about today. So let's dive in and welcome Mark Washington and Dr. Chris Damon. All right, well, welcome Dr. Damon and Mark to the Gutsy Gynecologist Show.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us.

Oh, my gosh, this is so fun having two guests. I'm going to try and tackle this. I want to talk to you first, Mark, because you know, you have done some impressive stuff, right? You're running million and billion dollar companies, you're doing all these amazing things, and then you go off and you start this brand new company. And when I heard your story, it just, it really touched me. So I would love for you to share with me, my listeners, like, why is gut health so important to you? Why are you on this mission?

Yeah, yeah, no, thank. Thanks so much. You know, I've. I've always been passionate about helping people live healthier lives, broadly Speaking, I mean, I've, you know, spent my life and career in the space of health and wellness and fitness and nutrition and supplements and food and beverages. Just, it's just always has got me going. But it took another level when deciding to start this company. And I generally describe it as a head meets heart moment. Like there's the head part of it of being in the space, but also realizing there is such an unmet need in the marketplace around what I call truly functional food. So not just better for you, but functional foods that can fundamentally transform your health. And it was really honing in around the science of the gut microbiome where I saw that there was actually a pathway to, to make that a reality. Right. I mean, just the sciences come so pervasive and you know very well just how connected, you know, the gut and the gut microbiome is to governing so many different dimensions of, of health. So that was the head part. I was like, I knew there was a need and an opportunity. The heart part is really why I decided to, to start the company. And as you, you alluded to it, it's a personal story and it relates back to family. My sister Monica, who was an unbelievably vibrant and colorful, you know, personality, but she struggled with her health throughout most of her adult life. And just like, like so many, like, yeah, it was a lot of things surrounding her metabolic health, so she struggled with her weight, so she was clinically obese, she had diabetes, hypertension as well. And she got pregnant later on in her adult life. So it was a high risk pregnancy. And she, in addition to all of her existing health complications, she also developed preeclampsia during her pregnancy as well. And she tragically passed away during childbirth. And the baby didn't make it either. And it shook me to my core. This happened a few years ago. Just how tragic that this would happen in this day and age and just how it shouldn't have been. And how I always wish that Monica had better access to better tools, better things to give her control.

Right.

I mean, I'm really into this topic of control and empowerment. And she tried lots of things over the years and I would send her shakes and workout videos and she tried diets. She was on lots of medications, but nothing gave her control. That helped her kind of alter her path and that lit a fire in me. To take it to the next level is one of those, if not me, then who? If not now, then when. Moments of creating a business that could change the game, that could tap into sort of the science. Right. In a much deeper way than many food, beverages, supplements have in the past, in particular, surrounding the gut microbiome. And how do we tap into the science that can be transformative, that can empower others with better control of their health, and actually do it as an homage to my sister's legacy, by honoring her by helping others, empowering others with better control, with the type of solutions that I wish that Monica had. And that was the spirit upon which we. I founded Super Gut and sort of created this concept, this ethos of transforming people's health through the gut microbiome, but doing it not just with functional foods, but with, you know, foods that actually you enjoy that taste great, that aren't too difficult and challenging to make a routine and a habit. Because I think it's the combination of those two that we can actually have impact on people's health. And so that's the spirit behind and the motivation for. For starting this company.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you for sharing that. That's so awesome. I love when people take their pain and turn it into their purpose. I think that's what we're here to do. And that's so beautiful. And I mean, you hit on so many problems. Women really do need to take back control of their health, looking to the white coats for the solutions. And I keep telling people, I can't make you well, I can guide you, I can help you along the way, but it really is up to you to take back that control. And it's in your daily decisions that you make all day long, every single day. So I love that you found Chris, Dr. Damon, because I will just. Let's be honest. A lot of gastroenterologists in this country are still not talking about the gut microbiome. So when I heard him talking, I was like, amen. Someone knows what's up. And you have him on your team guiding, and he's in charge of all, you know, all of this medical information. I think that is what we need. This is the kind of change we need going forward, is we need to start acknowledging that all disease does begin in the gut. And it's very much stuff that we can't see necessarily what's going on. So I'm excited to hear from you, Dr. Damon, because I will tell you, a lot of your colleagues are just doing their colonoscopies and really making a lot of women frustrated and feeling dismissed and unheard and sending them kind of in a tailspin. That's what I see every day with my patients, is they've run the gamut. They've done all the tests, they've had all the procedures, and then they finally make their way to me. And so please redeem your colleagues right now.

Yeah, absolutely. Tabitha, you tap into something really fundamental in terms of the medical model and the lack of nutritional training that we get. And I think the experience that a lot of individuals have with, as you say, white coats or providers at large is really that lack of training. And that percolates down into the types of advice that are provided now that can all change. There are murmurings of change happening at the highest of levels. And so this is all very exciting. And there's certainly, you know, within gastroenterology, many folks that are very keyed into a microbiome beyond just kind of standard procedures and colonoscopies, et cetera, as you allude to. So I think it's a very much a growing movement. I love that you quoted, I think it was maybe Hippocrates that that has been credited with. The gut is the root of disease. I like to say the gut is the gateway of health. I like that.

Reframing.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's, you know, positive. And I think positive goes a long way, being an optimist. So, yeah, I think with optimism, with these both grassroots and very high level murmurings that are happening. More than murmurings at this point. I think there's great hope for as healthcare providers, as a profession, in a bigger way, embracing the importance of food. Food is medicine.

Yeah. And I would love to just touch on your background a little bit. I know that you have worked with the Gates foundation and you really were looking at malnutrition. And I remember being in medical school and just thinking, malnutrition are those kids that we used to see in the commercials in the 80s in Ethiopia with their big bellies. Right. And their scrawny little ribs sticking out. And now when I look at Americans, we are malnourished, but it's a different picture because we're obese, we're so overweight, but we are just as malnourished because of our standard American diet. So what did you learn through all of that research that you did?

Yeah, first of all, nice word picture. And it immediately brought to mind Suzanne Summers and you know, infomercials back as a kid. And it's. Yeah, it's a huge problem. I saw that all very much firsthand, you know, during trips to Sub Saharan Africa and South Asia. And it. It's a problem that we've made some incremental improvement on, but still so much to do. Now, are we malnourished here in the US as well? And in high income countries, the absolute answer is yes. It's a different type of malnourishment and.

You don't see it. Right. It doesn't look like you're malnourished in the historical definition, but it's not, it's not at all. It's the same.

Well, you know what, I think it's easy to get into the mentality of obesity is a disease of too much. And it kind of makes sense. Too much fat, too much consumption. But we're learning that that's not the complete truth. And there's truly deficits in things like fiber, polyphenols, those compounds that give plants their color, even just simple things like potassium. And I think when we start embracing the importance of bringing these key nutrients back into the diet, that will go a long way to addressing metabolic disease because they're also very important in satiety, how full we feel.

Right?

Yeah.

And it's truly a balance of the things that we historically have called bad salt, fat, sugar. They're not really bad. These are incredibly important.

It's just we get too much that stuff.

We need it. Yeah, we're just getting too much. And yeah, it's maybe it's bad because we get too much. And likewise the good things, they're not really good. It's just we don't get enough of them. And I think the future of food is medicine will be about balancing the, you know, too much and the too little and also understanding beyond just the standard fat, sugars, proteins and vitamins and minerals. What are those other things? What is that dark matter? The bioactives that are present in food.

Yeah, that's why I love this product that you guys have created because you are replenishing, you're repleting, you're giving back what is missing. And I love that concept of people just trying to realize that obesity is not necessarily about too much, it's also about what you're missing. So I think that's super important. Yeah. Let's talk about why you decided to do resistant starches. So, yeah, I would just want to tell you, like when I see patients all day, every day, I do stool tests on them. And the past couple of years I've consistently seen this insufficiency pattern. It's been so bad since the pandemic. And I think just, you know, all of the stress, the physical, mental, emotional stress. But we are in this situation where we're walking around with no beneficial bacteria, nothing protecting us. We have no mucosal barriers. We have. We can't absorb our foods, we can't digest them. And so your product really talks to that. And I would love for you to explain to listeners kind of what is resistant starch, you know, what is the basis of prebiotics, postbiotics, all of that, because I think people are confused in general. Right. So where do you love to start?

Yeah, I'll take the lead. And then, Chris, if you could chime in. I mean, it all starts with the foundation. What you talked about, what we reference, is the key to health, let alone disease prevention, being your gut and, you know, a healthy, balanced gut with a diverse set of bacteria, strong gut lining, et cetera. So that's, you know, let's all agree that that's the foundation for better health. Now, the second question is, what do you do about, like, how do I get and achieve and make maintain kind of a healthy gut? A lot of focus historically in the space has been on, well, I got to get probiotics in, so pills, and, you know, maybe I'll have a kombucha or what have you to get more probiotics. And there is studies, right, that show that some strains can be beneficial in certain circumstances. However, if you look at what's fundamentally missing and what's absolutely critical and that none of us are getting enough of is how do you feed the healthy microbes in your gut? They need to be nourished, regardless of whatever probiotics that you're getting, regardless of whatever you're doing, physical activity, et cetera, you still need to feed the healthy bugs in your gut. And the problem is none of us get enough.

Right.

And so what is it that feeds the healthy bugs in your gut? It's predominantly fiber, and in particular, it's prebiotic fiber. And so that's what we focused on when creating products for super gut is, okay, how do we effectively nourish the gut in a way that's going to orient you towards health and disease prevention? And that was, you know, prebiotics broadly as a category. And we specifically honed in on resistant starch as a category of prebiotics to find ones that are really highly effective at disproportionately feeding really important good bugs in your gut? All right, it's called resistant starch. First, let me just define what it is. So, obviously, prebiotics are the food for the good bugs, right? Resistant starch is a type of prebiotic that's really Effectively resistant to digestion, right? That's why it gets its name resistant starch. So, and that's a good thing. So resisting digestion through the traditional digestive process, through your stomach, through your small intestine, kind of getting into your large intestine, your colon, where it's feeding really important beneficial bugs that are important for keeping you healthy. And what we saw based on the research, and there's a ton of clinical evidence, resistant starch, it, there's some of the bugs that it feeds are responsible not just for digestion and gut health, but play a significant role in cardio metabolic health as well. Really tapping into systems that are responsible for, you know, managing your blood sugar levels and insulin sensitivity for appetite control, which obviously supports weight loss, for even cardiovascular health as well. Like really tapping into some fundamental cardiometabolic mechanisms, right, through these specific types of powerful prebiotic fibers. And so we decided we created our own proprietary blend of these prebiotic fibers, primarily featuring resistant starch. And so we actually get ours from unripened green bananas, which are very high in resistant starch. We also get them from potatoes as well. But we also combine it with other very complimentary and synergistic prebiotic fibers as well. We do believe in trying to provide a diverse, you know, sources of prebiotics to get into our products and to get into your diet. And so we also include beta glucan from oats, which has complimentary benefits relative to the resistant search. And that's what we created our own blend of these all natural prebiotic fiber sources. And then we're like, okay, let's put this into delicious foods, right? That's where it comes to making it accessible. And how do we create a habit? And so we put it into, you know, our blend into shakes, we also put it into bars. We also actually sell our prebiotic fiber resistant starch fiber blend as a standalone powder that you can just add to anything to turn it into a gut health superfood. And by putting it into these kind of really convenient and, dare I say, delicious products, that's the step that we're taking to try to reintroduce these nutrients, these missing nutrients into your diet in a way that's going to fundamentally improve not just your gut health, but your overall health as well.

Oh, my gosh, that's awesome. So everybody listening, you can get resistant starch in your diet. You can go out, you can eat green bananas, you can cook some rice, put it in the fridge and eat it, right? But it's not very good. Not Very good.

So this and the other thing, a lot of times it's hard to get much of it. Like even when you're intentional and trying to. Absolutely. It comes in starchy plant foods, beans, legumes, et cetera. And we always talk about, and Chris will chime in, we aren't trying to replace your diet, we're trying to complement your whole food plant forward diet, like with these sources. But even when you're being intentional about it, it's really, really hard to get called the recommended levels of fiber in just a traditional diet. And so we believe we can help fill that fiber gap, even when you're being intentional about it. You know, we have 20 grams of fiber in a shake, we have 10 grams of fiber in one of our bars. So it really is an effective way to, to close that fiber gap. That's hard diet alone.

Yeah, I think that's so important. Like we literally are not getting enough fiber in this country. I think we're averaging, I don't know, eight grams a day. And we need to be upwards of 40.

30.

Yeah.

30 plus 40.

Yeah. And we've also lowered the colonoscopy screening age now from age 50 to 45, because colon cancer continues to rise. So I would love for you to speak on that, Dr. Damon, because it's directly correlated with what we're eating and what we're not eating. Am I wrong?

I think that's a really powerful hypothesis that's worth looking into deeper. And there's certainly literature that supports that hypothesis. There's tons of epidemiological data that looks at risk factors for colon cancer. And for a long time we've known things like processed meats, red meats in particular are related to poor gut health and colon cancer in particular. There's also more recent data looking at this processed food classification system called NOVA that was developed out of Brazil. And it basically just ranks foods according to how much processing has been done into four different categories and found that the so called ultra processed foods within that ranking category system are truly associated with colon cancer, I think breast cancer as well, and a few other cancers. And beyond cancer, metabolic disease, et cetera, a lot of the modern scourges. So I think we're learning the answer is yes, very much so. It's not really a revelation to probably a lot of the public. Public's often keyed into things much before research catches up. But research is important for validating because there are, you know, many theories that don't bear out.

Right. So we're processing all these foods and we're removing all of the fiber. You know, like we drink our fruits, we drink orange juice, we drink apple juice, we remove all of the fibers. We're really just not getting it. And so here's an issue. I see a lot of women who have had this low fiber lifestyle for a while and they try to reintroduce it to help feed their good bacteria and get, you know, the gut health and shift things and they can't tolerate it. So explain a little bit of how resistant starches are better and easier to handle.

Yeah. First of all, it's a really tricky problem when the issue at large is a lack of diversity in the gut. Yeah. And the systemic solution to that is increasing the diversity. And yet a lot of the solutions in the short term that we're relying on is further entrenching that dysbiotic microbiome by eliminating the things that are causing the bloating, etc. Because we don't have the metabolic capacity in our microbiome to do that.

Yeah.

And it becomes a self reinforcing loop. But truly a lot of the validated diets, like a fodmaps diet, low fodmaps which eliminate certain carbohydrates, are elimination diets. But how do we get out of this vicious cycle? I think I see a number of different complementary approaches to doing that and one of them is reinvigorating the microbiome by actually providing some of those microbes. And I'm not talking about probiotics, I'm talking about more sophisticated approaches. And there's companies that are working on that and it looks promising and it's worked well for low hanging fruit like Clostridium difficile infections. The other approach, which I think will be impactful, maybe even more so at a public health level, is introducing foods that have those missing components like fibers and polyphenols. And there are, even though our microbiomes are depleted, oftentimes in individuals, there are pockets of the good bugs left. And so if you can tolerate a little bit of bloating and get over that hump, then things will rebalance, the ecosystem will come back into balance and that health will be restored. The last thing I'll say is there are, and I think this was the beginning of your question. There are some fibers that cause less bloating than others and it has to do with, with how equal opportunity they are in feeding the microbes in our gut and where those microbes live, the high fodmap fibers, which are the ones that are linked to irritable bowel syndrome and bloating and diarrhea. They're the ones that tend to feed bugs a little bit more indiscriminately. And in the upper gut, in the small intestine, low fodmap fibers are the ones that tend to be more specific to even single strains of bacteria present in the lower gut. That was a guiding light in choosing the fibers within. Supergut resistant starch is one of those low fodmap fibers. So is its friends. In the formulation, it's actually a mixture of different fibers. In the super gut formula, it's O beta glucan. That's also a low fodmap fiber. These tend to be fibers that people tolerate well. And that's what we saw borne out in our clinical study where we looked at a well validated measure of gut symptoms and people's bowel habits, their bloating overall improved on the product. It was validating to see that that was actually borne out in people's experiences and not just what was seen in the literature.

I was excited about that when I was reading your product. I was like, oh, this is going to be so much better tolerated. And we might have to start with a lower amount, but I can see you increasing it quicker.

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Just to chime in on Chris's point, I mean, the last part was all fiber's good. We all need to be getting more fiber in general. But not all fibers are created equal. Just like Chris talked about. We really focus on ones that are more easily tolerable and therefore not only can you consume them, but you actually can consume them at higher quantities over time as. As well. You know, there are types of fiber which are, you know, more difficult to tolerate. So things like inulin and chicory root. Right. I mean, those that are, you know, high fodmap and might, you know, so there's general. For most people, there's a limit as to how much of them you can get without some real gastrointestinal discomfort. And so we chose the lower fodmap types that are more easily tolerable even with that.

Right.

I mean, we still are conscious of the fact that most of us don't get that much fiber in our diet. And so there still is an on ramp even for, even for low fodmap fibers. And so we very proactive in communicating to folks. So when you first start trying our super gut products, ease into it. Right? I mean, so don't just Jump in, full board, have a full shake and a bar. It's a fiber mix all one day. Like that's going to be a bit much for your system, right? You do need time to adapt, but the human body is an amazing thing. Like Chris alluded, like, we can adapt over time, right? And as you start to build up, you know, that tolerance, you can increase kind of your consumption with less and less digestive, you know, symptoms or concerns. And frankly, like as we saw in a clinical study, it actually improves some of the digestive issues like IBS symptoms that many people do suffer from over time. But yes, you, it is smart to, to ramp up your consumption of fiber over time.

Oh my gosh, such an important point. So hopefully you guys caught that. Like we need fiber, but we just might need to start a little slower and choosing resistant starches and more low fodmap type starches are definitely going to be easier to digest. You're not going to have such upper GI issues like you would normally. It makes me think of the green banana versus the yellow banana. Like, what is the difference in that? I get a lot of people who are deathly afraid of bananas, you know, and so they won't even go near it. And, you know, I'm going to get that question. Well, it's got bananas in it, but it's different, right? Like the color makes a big difference.

Yeah, that's really indicative of what the bananas. 1 bananas are great for your overall health, right? I mean, in addition to the resistance starch, obviously Chris will talk a lot about potassium as well. Like they're really important. But the properties of banana change dramatically over time. It's just fundamental, just fascinating how nature works. So when the bananas are unripened and deep dark green, like not just the kind that you see in a grocery store, like on the tree, like Kermit the Frog type green. That is literally when they are highest in resistant starch. Right. In amylose, which is, you know, these very difficult to digest. It, you know, just so happens to be also when they're not at their tastiest, right. It's chalkier, it's harder to eat. Yeah, a little, A little chalky, but that's actually when they are high in resistant starch. But then over time as bananas ripen, they go from that deep dark green to lighter green, then obviously to yellow. And that's when they're delicious.

Right, but because there's more sugar, right?

That's exactly right. That resistant starch, it actually adjusts and transforms over time into Sugar. Right. And so very high ripe, yellow, even turning brown bananas. That resistant starch has turned into sugar over time. And so obviously, especially for someone that is watching their blood sugar levels, especially if you're pre diabetic or even diabetic, we obviously, you know, suggest caution when thinking about being bananas, ripened bananas, because they do contain a lot of sugar. But, you know, it evolves, you know, quite dramatically over time as bananas ripen.

Yeah. So you're getting all the health benefits, you know, when it's still green and it doesn't have to taste bad because it's in these shakes.

Exactly, exactly.

That's very cool. And I know my women are going to be asking me about carbohydrates because, you know, they're watching their weight, especially any kind of menopausal transition. Our metabolism does change. Everything kind of shifts. And I would love for you guys to explain the fact that you get to subtract the fiber. Right. Like that doesn't really count. And so you guys are kind of keto friendly, right?

Absolutely. Yeah. It takes a. It Actually there's a pretty significant amount of education that is required because the traditional guidance that you hear in the public lexicon, even from, you know, physicians, no carbs or, you know, low carbs, don't eat any carbs. And it kind of groups all carbs together. And while directionally accurate, it's not specifically accurate.

Right.

Fiber is a carb. We scream from the rooftops when someone looks at a product like ours. And if you just look at the total carbs number, it's high because it's got a ton of fiber in it. Right. And so we tried to preach. And the best indicator of this is more of a net carbs calculation. Right. I mean, looking at total carbs and subtracting out the non digestible carbs, the primary of which is fiber. And that's really to pay attention to when you're thinking of the carb impact on glycemic levels and blood sugar controls. It's more the net carbs you need to get this fiber in your diet. Fiber is a type of carb. So it always kills me when I hear people, no, I'm avoiding all carbs. That means that you are not getting what is fundamental and foundational to your gut health and frankly to blood sugar control. It's a type of carb.

Maybe I can add to that. I think where we've gotten things, one of the places where we've gotten things wrong within nutrition is in vilifying certain ingredients. So you know, we started with fat, fat's bad. Then we transitioned to sugar is bad. Now we're saying protein is bad, good. It's all a little bit off base. And what really matters is quality, carbohydrates, quality fats. And that quality is reflection of the balance of the different types of carbohydrates, the different types of fats. And categorically there are the digestible carbohydrates and the non digestible carbohydrates, otherwise known as fiber.

Right.

And whole foods come packaged part and parcel with both of them. It's nature's packaging. Like brown rice, whole wheat. That brand is there and we essentially take that out when the processing happens and we turn it into white rice and white wheat. What's fascinating is the fiber that's taken out is in some ways almost like instructions to the body on how to use those carbohydrates most efficiently.

Yes.

And it starts with, well, how do those carbohydrates get absorbed? But it goes all the way to the level of the little factories within our cells called mitochondria and how those mitochondria work to digest the carbohydrates. And I think the more we understand how fiber is playing a role there across that entire process, it'll shine a light on, gosh, we just, we need to bring these things back in. Food is meant to be whole. There's good reasons we processed it. It's helped solve, although not completely, food insecurity and feeding billions of people on the earth. But it's a double edged sword and comes with problems as well. One other thing I'll say is in a very real practical way, we can think about the digestible and the undigestible and subtracting those non digestible carbs out, and I think that's valuable. Another way of thinking about it though, is understanding the ratios and how that truly ameliorates the digestible carbs. In other words, if you have just a ton of sugar, for example, or Rice Krispies with rice milk, which is one of the worst things you can have for breakfast because of its glycemic index.

Yeah.

And it's almost, it's, it's as bad, if not worse than sugar, to be honest.

Yeah, just have the Fruit Loops.

Might as well just have the Fruit Loops.

Seriously. Yeah, because there's the hedonic factor there and they're not any better, worse than that.

Right, right.

But if you, if you look at how the blood sugar spikes after having those really high glycemic index foods, they go up, right. And they go up rapidly and it, it stimulates insulin and then there's a whole slew of effects of how the insulin affects the body. Even in folks that don't have diabetes. What we've learned is that fiber actually prevents that spike in a very real way. It brings it down 30 to 40%. And so you don't have that insulin spike and you don't have that whole cascade of metabolic events that in people that are predisposed will ultimately lead to metabolic disease and things like diabetes and obesity. So yeah, I, I think how the two come together, the fiber and the digestible carbohydrates and how it's not just about subtracting but about balancing them.

That's the thing.

Yeah, that, that can be a really huge unlock and aha. For people when it comes to their relationship with carbohydrates, which, you know, we're all maybe a little bit confused as to how carbohydrates should fit into our, our diet.

Yeah, without a doubt. I think that's so important. Like it's, it goes back to the apple or the apple juice. Like you have to have it paired. Nature knows what it's doing. It did those things for a reason. We're trying to mess it up and so you're just bringing it back in, you know, a higher dose, easier to get form by putting it in a shake in a bar.

And tasty.

Yeah, and tasty. So you're putting it together. I think that's really important. One thing, you know, we talked about the fact that the bacteria eat what we eat. So we eat sugar and high fructose corn syrup. You're going to feed those guys and the yeast and all that other stuff. You want to feed them the right things because they're making byproducts and those byproducts are keeping our gut healthy, like butyrate and stuff like that. I would love for you to touch on that a little bit because, you know, I think if women realize it's not just a selfish thing, I'm, you know, it's not just about what I want to eat or what weight I want to lose, but like it is impacting the other systems because of this health. Like I just don't think we get that.

I think just how powerful the microbiome is and the gut are to our overall health. It's a double edged sword. And on the one hand people can think, wow, it's incredibly powerful. I need to grow my microbial garden on the other hand, one could think, how could it possibly be associated with so many different things? I think it's easy to just turn a blind eye to it all. What helps in my mind, sharpen the focus is a molecule that you just mentioned. That's butyrate, and that's one of the star molecules that the microbiome makes. And one of the key ways that the microbiome connects to whole health. Yeah, it's a signaling molecule. It modulates our immune system in a very real way with very real science. It modulates our metabolism in a very real way, and it also modulates our brain and cognition in a very real way. There's both direct and indirect pathways by which this happens. This is the gutsy gynecologist show, I believe. Is that correct?

Yeah, because it's all about the gut in gynecology.

In gynecology. And so I'd love to kind of explore some of these connections to gynecology in particular, and polycystic ovarian syndrome and preterm birth, small for gestational age, gestational diabetes. There's very real connections between the gut, microbiome, butyrate, and each of these.

Oh, my gosh. I talk all about how, when I was a surgeon, you know, I loved being a surgeon. I would do robotic surgery. I would go in and do advanced endometriosis cases, fibroid removals, all of these difficult surgeries. And women didn't realize that their bowels literally lived with their uterus, tubes and ovaries. They lay on them, under them, around them, and they get stuck to them. And you have to separate all those adhesions because all of those chemicals are seeping through the gut into the pelvis, and they're affecting their gyne organs. And I think that's really surprising for a lot of women. You know, they would always freak out when I would show them their pictures from the or, and they would be like, why are my bowels there? And so people and doctors do it too.

Right.

You go to the gastroenterologist for your IBS and the gynecologist for your heavy periods, but nobody's talking to each other and putting the two together. And it's so important because it really is impacting everything else.

If I could put my finger on two things that white coats could do better. One would be nutrition. We've talked about that already. And more education. The other would be bringing our minds together in a better way. It's.

It's so fragmented, interdisciplinary.

Yes, yes. And. And what's really interesting is, I think nutrition can be the fulcrum around which that.

Yeah, the bridge.

Yeah, it's the bridge. Yeah. Yeah. So for sure, let's, let's. I'm curious to hear where you want to go, Mark.

The other thing that, to connect the dots here and just. But I think another example that's relatable just to reinforce just how foundational the gut is to overall health and metabolism. Like, I'm sure you and many of your clients are hearing about some of these breakthrough drugs, right, that are out there for diabetes, for weight loss. Yes, exactly. The Ozempic, the wegovis of the world breakthrough, right? I mean, unbelievable results. Obviously they were designed and clinically studied for those living with diabetes and obesity. So talk to your physician. Right. But here's the thing. Those are incretin based therapies. Those incretins are what is naturally produced and modulated by the gut. Right? And so think about that. Right? I mean, and so we know that when you're feeding your gut, you know, really healthy prebiotic fibers and producing things like butyrate. Butyrate also is a stimulant to manage and modify the production of these gut hormones, this GLP one that you'll, you'll hear, right? And so the body's a natural factory. Like when treated, when fed to do the things that it's supposed to, it actually is naturally producing these hormones, these gut hormones that have now been kind of, you know, synthesized and put into these injectables which are very powerful, very potent around weight loss and blood sugar control. Those are gut hormones. That's what your body's meant to do.

Right?

And so it's just another connection to, you know, connect the dots between. And you know, the fact your gut really is that pervasive in governing overall health and cardiometabolic health. Because, you know, these breakthrough drugs are based on this same science and technology that your gut is naturally inclined towards producing.

Oh my gosh, that's a great point. So, so important. And the drug companies are always one step ahead of us, you know, but they really are always taking it based off of what's happening naturally in our body. They're just using our physiology and our biochemistry. They're, you know, you know, making their products off of it. And we really can just go back to helping our body function and do all those processes. That's the problem is we're not supporting our body's natural physiology. I was also thinking about your sister having preeclampsia, you know, having those risk Factors preeclampsia. We don't talk about it enough, but it's definitely associated with gut health. We're just, we're not there in obstetrics, but we need to go there because that is where the answers are. And so I'm so glad that you're on this mission.

Work 100%. Thank you for. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it's almost like I wish I knew then how much I know now, at least in connect with Chris and others in the space like yourself, to have more informed perspective as to what's going on, that who knows what could have happened with, you know, my sister's outcome like that was, you know, we've learned so much more over the past five years that we just did not know before about the importance of gut health as foundational for overall health. Obviously, there's still a lot more to learn and it's still emerging, but we know a ton more now than we do then. And I personally know a lot more now that I knew, knew then. So let's, let's do something about it now.

Exactly. Like, when you know better, you do better. That's what I just like Maya Angelou. So what else do we want to talk about? I feel like we've covered so much good stuff. People just need to try super gut. I think you have such easy to ingest products and your recipes are so awesome. Like, I think that's the selling point right there. Like, people sometimes are like, I don't like shakes, I don't like powders, I don't know how to use them. But you're like, this is exactly how to use them. So very cool.

I think that's. I think you hit on an important point and we, we started on this is obviously you can tell we love talking about the science of the gut health. And you mentioned the word butyrate and Chris and I both smiled and lit up. We love getting into it.

I know we're all nerds at the.

End of the day, right? To really impact people, public health broadly. I do come back to keep it simple. It's food. We gotta love food. You know, let's make it accessible, convenient, like I said, you know, even craveable. And so that's what we spend a significant amount of time and attention on is how do we translate all this technical science in the microbiome, but let's put it into delicious, tasty food that you can absolutely enjoy on a day in and day out basis. And I believe we've done that. Most people really do enjoy the taste. Right. Of our shakes and the taste of the bars. And even if you're not a shake or a bar person, that's actually why we created our fiber mix as well, to create the versatility because maybe you have your own smoothie recipe. That's fine, that's great. Just make sure you're getting the fiber in there, right. So it's easy to add in or, you know, if you just want to have a coffee or what have you. So we've made it versatile as well, just different ways. At the end of the day, we literally are just trying to find ways to reintroduce these key nutrients back into your diet in as tasty and convenient ways as possible.

This is actually one of the key insights for why I joined Mark and team. And public health messaging is focused on whole foods for the last 20, 30 years. It's incredibly important. We should continue to do that. There's new, powerful ways through things like smartphone apps that we can do that. That said, as we process food and we take the whole food and we separate it into these two parts, sugar and fiber, for example, you can have your cake and eat it too. Essentially. It's a way of bringing them back together and allowing you to still enjoy and experience those foods that, that are, quite frankly, tasty and that the modern palate is adapted to. So I feel like this is a really important part of the overall public health solution. Whole foods, yes. 1, 2, 3. But also these new functional approaches to food that complements the ultra processed foods and that redesign them into functional foods is, is going to be a really important part of the solution moving forward.

I think so too. I mean, just our vegetables themselves have less nutritional, you know, amounts of magnesium that they used to because our soil is so depleted. Like just basically we're not getting enough even in a healthy diet. I see it every single day in my practice when I, you know, test women and they are struggling and they've done all the rights stuff.

Right.

Right here I'm doing all the right things, I'm eating all the right foods. So I love this idea that it's. In addition, you're adding to, you're making it complete, you're rounding it out. So thank you guys so much. This has been awesome. And it's super. Gut.com, right?

That's right.

Check it out. Give it a try. It's so good. So thank you guys.

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having us tappin.

Yeah, this has been great. Really appreciate it.

Awesome. Oh my gosh. I hope you got so much out of that. I know I did. I love talking about gut health because it really does determine everything that you're dealing with. And, you know, I was thinking about resistant starches as they were talking. And like, rice is a really common one. We. We tell you to make rice and put it in the fridge because the cooling process actually activates the starches. And I wonder if that is a key component of why Asians don't have the metabolic diseases that we do, because essentially they're eating more resistant starch than we are. They're feeding their good microbiome better than we are in America. I think that probably has a. Plays a big role in their overall health. So I love sushi. That just gives me another reason to eat it. Anyway, I hope you got lots of golden nuggets out of this. I hope that you, like, send this episode to your friends, to your mom, to your sister, to your daughter, and just share the knowledge, because we are here to support each other. It's a sisterhood, not a competition. We need to lift each other up. And I guarantee that, you know, somebody who is struggling with their gut, you know, we go out and have dinner as friends or we talk about stuff. And sometimes you'll notice, hey, your friend is avoiding this because of bloating or. Or she didn't go out because her stomach was a wreck. You know, we tend to talk a little bit less about our bowel movements and our poop and that kind of thing, but I would encourage you to talk to your girlfriends and all the women in your life about that, because it's another symptom of potentially what's going on. Your poop is telling you so, so much every day about your health. And it's either telling you something really good or it's a big warning sign, like, hey, you need to do something different if your poop is a mess, if it's not coming out, if it's hard and pebbly, if it's falling apart in the toilet, or it's very, you know, watery, or if it's foul smelling, or I'm uncomfortable, crampy, all of those things that should not really be happening. Your stools should be formed, easy to pass. You should feel completely evacuated after you have a bowel movement. You shouldn't feel like it's incomplete or you're still feeling pressure or discomfort. It shouldn't be tearing you up. It shouldn't be causing blood bleeding. You shouldn't see mucus in the stool. Like, all of those are little warning signs saying, you need to heal your gut. You need to heal your gut. So I want you to start paying attention to your body, just like I want you to pay attention to your periods. Because when your periods are off, that is also giving you information. So your poop is giving you so much information every single day. And that should be your gauge as to am I getting better? Am I getting worse? Is this helping? Is it not helping? Depending on how you feel when you eat, how your gut is working, and whether or not you're pooping.

Right.

So I hope that helps. We should put up the Bristol stool scale with this episode this week. I think that's really helpful. Like, know what your poop looks like, know it's supposed to look like and how to get it there. And I promise fiber is a key component of this. So fiber is going to bulk it up, but it's also going to clean it out. And so I hope you got a lot of good information from this. Not all fibers created equal. If you can't tolerate a big scoop of Metamucil, that's okay. You probably can tolerate resistant starches, or you can start in smaller doses. So cool. Let me know what you thought of this episode, and I'll see you here next week. Bye, ladies.