The Truth About Surgery, Informed Consent, and Taking Ownership of Your Health with Christine Garvin

Hi, I'm Dr. Tabitha, the gutsy gynecologist. I'm a triple board certified, OB GYN and Functional Medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey. And I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. After caring for thousands of women, I've come to realize that your gut health determines your gyne health and your overall health. And it's a super gutsy thing for me to go against conventional gynecology practice to bring you the truth. No more band aid medicine, ladies. We're talking root cause resolution on this show. So if you're struggling with hormone imbalance, weight gain, period issues, anxiety, insomnia, you name it, then you've come to the right place. And I want to be your gutsy gynecologist. So welcome. All right, ladies, I'm gonna extend extend the conversation on fibroids today because I did an episode talking about what fibroids are. You know, all the basic statistics and facts regarding fibroids. But I wanted you to hear from someone who actually went through conventional treatment for her fibroids. And you know, she had a pretty extreme complication, but, but from that she learned so much and now she's passing it on to you guys. So her passion is now helping women understand why fibroids are happening, what all of their options are, not just surgical options and how to really get control of your hormones, get your gut health in balance, all that good stuff that we always talk about. And I really loved my conversation with my guest today because it took a spiritual turn. We talked more about the mind, body, spirit, soul connection. And I think that we miss that piece a lot as women. And it's so foundational because we are more than just our body and we are connected to each other and to the earth and to a higher power and all of that stuff. And it's so important to acknowledge that and to work on that piece of it because sometimes we can't heal until we do that work. So I'm really excited for my guest today, but I just wanted to do a shout out to somebody who gave me an awesome review. Let me read. Says the only gyno who gets it. So woohoo. Love this show. Dr. Tabitha is the only OB GYN I've heard really talk about the gut reproductive health connection. Love her positivity and her depth. Thank you so much. A nspdx on Apple podcasts that fills my heart. It makes it all worthwhile that's why I do it, because I want you guys to know that there are other options besides what you're being told by your traditional doctor. I want you to stop and question. I want you to get in tune and listen to your body and really take ownership that you are in charge of your health. You are your own physician. You are your own CEO of your health. And your doctors should just be your guides. They should have the tools to help you along the way. They should educate you and give you all of the options. You know, it's so common, unfortunately, for you, to sign a consent form, say, for a surgical procedure, and it says right on there that the physician discussed the risk, benefits and alternatives with you. And unfortunately, a lot of the doctors don't know the alternatives. So the alternatives are not discussed as an option. And so I would argue that's not really informed consent. That's limited consent of what they can do for you. And do you accept that as an option? So I just want you to know that informed consent is a big deal to me. You know, when I was 17 years old and I found out I was pregnant, I had to go on Medicaid and food stamps, and I was assigned a doctor for my pregnancy. I didn't have a doctor. You know, my family didn't have insurance when I was young, and I couldn't go to my pediatrician because now I was pregnant. And so I needed a doctor. And I was assigned an old guy who was on the verge of retirement who took Medicaid. And he made it clear that he did not want to take me on as a patient and that I was a nuisance and a bother. And so it was a rough nine months, and it was a very traumatic delivery. And a lot of things were done to me that weren't explained. And looking back, I just go, oh, my gosh, I wish I would have known better. But I didn't. And I didn't know to ask. I didn't know to speak up. I was usually alone at my appointments. No one came to the doctors with me. My mom was busy with running her business, taking care of her kids. My friends were in school. My boyfriend was in college. So I didn't have a health advocate. I didn't have someone looking out for me as a person and giving me the knowledge and the information I needed to make the best choices for my life and for my health. And that actually is what drove me to becoming a physician, you know, so I've. I've gone through all of that, and it's really important to me that you have informed consent, that you know why things are being done to your body, why surgical procedures are being recommended and being performed on you, why organs are being removed, why you're giving this medication month after month and you just keep taking it. You need to know why. So if you are uncomfortable with any of that, you need to speak up. And I know it's hard because doctors have the white coat on, right? They know best. That is traditionally how it's been is you don't ask.

You.

You just take them as face value and you trust them. But unfortunately, doctors aren't trained to handle a lot of the new chronic illnesses that are associated with. With our environment and our lifestyle and our diets of all these franken foods made by the food industry and all the environmental toxins that we are burdened with every day. We're not trained how to deal with that as doctors. And so this is all new territory. Territory. And it's really important for you, if you're not comfortable with something to speak up. I can't just. I cannot stress that enough. Like, it's your body. You need to say something. And if you are the type of person that just is not comfortable with that kind of confrontation, especially with an authority figure like a doctor, find a friend who is or someone that can go to your appointments with you or find another provider. Sometimes, you know, we get go with the doctor that our insurance recommends or that our insurance covers or that's closest to our house that's down the street, or the doctor that's first available and easiest to get into. Like, we have all these reasons why we end up with the doctors that we end up with, and those might not be the right reasons. It might be time to reassess and say, you know what? I think it might be worth driving an hour to go sit see this doctor that I've heard about, or it might be worth trying doing telemedicine, or it might be worth going an alternative holistic route. There's a naturopath that I keep hearing about, like, consider going the alternative route if you are not getting the answers and you are not comfortable with what's being recommended to you. You know, I talk a lot about how conventional gynecology is failing women in so many ways. And there are other options and solutions out there. So I want you to be hopeful, but I also want you to be proactive and take back control of your health and your body and your life, because we cannot leave it in the hands of these white Coat doctors. It's just not how we're ever going to be healthy as a society. Medicine was born out of illness. You know, it was created when we learned about infections and antibiotics were created and we learned how to perform surgeries and remove organs. And so medicine was born out of a disease state. It was never designed or created with the thought of making someone healthy or keeping someone healthy. So you have to remember that. And I would just encourage you to keep listening to podcasts like this. And my guest today has an awesome podcast called Hormonally Speaking. I'm going to be on there very soon. And just keep educating yourself and don't be afraid to ask for support and take somebody with you if you need that as well. So I hope you needed to hear that message today. I think somebody did. And I just want you to understand why I do what I do. And it's because I've suffered. I've learned the hard way. I've struggled. I've been neglected. I've been almost abused in some situations. So I. I don't want you to go through all of that. I want you to have a better outcome. So thank you so much for trusting me and being here and listening and just enjoying the show and getting everything you can out of it. I do this for you. So just remember, you can always pause. You can can stop it and come back to a podcast. You can listen to it again. I would encourage you to go back and start at episode one. You know, your menstrual cycle as a vital sign and listen to all these episodes. So much amazing information. And you really do need all this information. That's why I bring it to you.

So.

And then pass it on to every lady that you know. Because we are a sisterhood, we need to rise up and support each other, and we are in this time together. Right? This is a judgment free zone. We don't compare. We just focus on doing what's best for us and our sisters. So I'm excited to introduce my guest because when I heard her, I was like, I love everything she's doing. We are on the same page. It's just beautiful and incredible. And so I know you're going to love her as well. Let me just sing her praises. Christine Garvin. She's a functional nutritionist based in Asheville, North Carolina. She weaves together her personal health journey, including a fibroid surgery that nearly killed her. With her training in functional health, nutrition, and hormones to help women heal their gut and achieve hormone balance, she's been Featured in health magazine, Shape, Parade magazine, and msn. She's the host of the podcast Hormonally Speaking Speaking, and she works with clients all over the world via Zoom, like I do. She offers group programs for gut healing and hormone health. So definitely check her out. The links are in the show notes. She's got a YouTube channel like I do, and I'm going to be on her podcast soon.

So.

So much good information. Let's get on with this conversation. It is awesome. Well, welcome, Christine, to the Gutsy Gynecologist show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and chatting with you.

Yes. I think that your story is going to be so compelling for my listeners to hear and they're going to connect with you because I keep hearing from women over and over again. What are my options? Surgery seems to be my only option. Why is this stuff happening to me? And they're just not getting answers from their conventional gynecologist. And your story is like the epitome of that problem. It just, you know, when I heard it, it just broke my heart because so much of that could have been avoided with some basic discussion and communication. I feel like, so 100%.

Yeah.

I'm so glad that you, like, took your pain, turned it into purpose. You're on this beautiful mission to help women, and I just appreciate it so much.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's. It was, you know, a lot of people said to me, wow, you really, you know, use this in a good way. But, you know, I have to believe that there was a purpose for it happening to me. And I'm definitely not one to sort of keep quiet. And I get, I understand some people aren't ready to sort of take that into the world after a big trauma happens. So, you know, nothing against anybody that's not ready to sort of talk about that and share that experience. But. Yeah, right.

And I think that's what you're for. You're for those types of people who really just need some guidance and some hope that there is life after, you know, complications and things that didn't. You didn't plan and they just happened. So tell us your story. Like, how did all of this come about? You were just living life and you got a diagnosis with a fibroid.

Yeah, well, so basically I was. I'm trying to remember. I think I was 39 at the time, but probably my period had started changing about a year before that. So in 38, you know, which, you know, your listeners probably know, like this is when hormonally, things start to shift for a lot of women. But we don't necessarily. We're not necessarily tuned into that because, you know, things may still be regular and that kind of thing. And my period had actually been very regular for a lot of years. And then suddenly I started having my period about, like, five days earlier each month, you know, so it kept going back five days early, and I started bleeding profusely. And so at the time, I was a dance instructor and performer and had a dance school and. But I had done, you know, training in my twenties around holistic health education, nutrition, and all those kinds of things. So I was tuned in enough to know, okay, so this is probably something perimenopausal related, you know, and so I just kind of thought, oh, things are starting to go wacky early for me. Finally, one day, I was actually getting ready to go to dance practice, and I was on my period and I put my diva cup in, and it did not actually go all the way in. And so I was like, what's going on in here? You know, something's off. So I did a little digging and I felt something that, you know, I knew hadn't been there before. And so, of course, you know, the first thing that you think is like, oh, my God, cancer, and, you know, you're freaking out. And, you know, I would say to women, just if that situation ever occurs to you, if you feel something, usually it's not cancer. Unfortunately, with cancer, we don't have a lot of indications until sort of further along in the game. So it's usually some kind of growth that's happening. So I ended up going. I couldn't get in with my regular doctor. I ended up going to another one who tried to convince me I felt my cervix. She's like, oh, I think this is your cervix. And I was like, it's not my cervix. Cervix. I know how things.

If it didn't feel like that last.

Exactly, exactly. I was like, it's been a few years, and that was not there. So finally, I think she found some indication of it and then sent me for an ultrasound. And that's when I learned I had a fibroid. And to be honest, I don't think I'd heard of fibroids before that, you know, And I find that's true with many women, that until you find out you have one, you don't know that you have one or you don't. You've never Heard of it before?

Yeah.

And so at that point, it was about 6 centimeters, which is about the size of a lemon is what they say. And, you know, I went to my gynecologist, who actually is a do, and she has some functional training, you know, and, you know, of course she told me sort of some of the options, which one of them, you know, being an estrogen blocker, that's what a lot of doctors will go to. I don't remember if we talked about birth control as an option, but I know a lot of doctors will say, you know, put you on a progestin. And, you know, we talked about sort of the different surgical options. And at that point, I was reading up and I was like, oh, a myomectomy, which is when they just go in and remove the fibroid and leave the uterus intact, sounded like the best option for me because I did recognize that it was sort of a little bit larger at that point, and it was causing. I had anemia at that point and actually was located where it pushed out my coccyx bone. So it was kind of a big joke when I was teaching dance and that I was growing a tail before we knew.

So it was so funny.

Right, right, right, exactly. You're like, okay, this, you know, it's. It's so funny to look back and think about what we thought. But, you know, at that point I was like, okay, I want it out. And I didn't know, obviously then what I know now in terms of where they stem from, how you can work with them, how things could have changed. Though I will say I did end up using bioidentical progesterone for the couple of months between finding out I had the fibroid and the surgery, and it did help to re regulate my cycle. So that's the good part. And then the other side of it, I have to be honest with people, was by the time I did get the fibroid out, it was larger. So I always give that caveat with women, that bioidentical progesterone is not always going to be the answer for fibroids, because I think that that is something that is kind of out there if you read around. But we do know that they can have progesterone receptors on the fibroid along with estrogen receptors. And I can talk more about that later. But, yeah, so basically I ended up deciding on the myomectomy because even though I will say this a little aside too, so many doctors will say hysterectomy, right if you don't want kids anymore. And I knew that I didn't want kids. And they're really pushed for that because they say, well, the fibroids will come back, you know, and this whole idea that we only need our uterus to produce children is just mind blowing to me. You know, it's. Yeah, it's just. And I'm sure that you've encountered this a lot with patients that come to you, but I really was like, you know, I want to. I believe that we get this thing out. I keep my uterus, everything's going to be good. And myomeectomy is supposed to be a relatively easy surgery. I had a laparoscopic one. It's supposed to be a little bit more complicated than a hysterectomy, you know, because obviously, like, they go and they cut the fibroid out of your uterus versus with hysterectomy, they just take the whole thing out. So, you know, versus. I think if I had done a hysterectomy, I would have just had a day surgery. But with a myomectomy, they did keep you, you know, kept me overnight. They said surgery went perfectly. Everything looked good. I will say I woke up the next morning and felt very off and felt like something was wrong, but I'd never had surgery before. And so you just sit there and you're like, oh, I'm in pain because I just had surgery. But looking back, there was some part of me that knew that something was wrong. Then we went into. I went home. And the thing is, I had the surgery done at a hospital that was about four hours away from my hometown because they were the premier center of laparoscopic gynecological surgeries in the Southeast. I won't name the name as I don't. But so the drive home, you know, I didn't feel good. The next few days, it was just like, okay, I'm trying to come back from the surgery. And that's normal, right? To not feel that great for the first couple days. But even though my stomach started to go down, you know, from the bloating from the surgery a bit, it still just. Things weren't working really well. And basically, fast forward to two whole weeks, right? And I kept telling myself, oh, I'm getting better, even though I wasn't. And this is another thing I point out to women. If you are still feeling bad three to four days after a surgery, go to the error. Do not pass. Just go to the er because sepsis is a real possibility. If a surgery went wrong. And that is exactly what happened to me. This is a pretty. I don't want to say common, but it is a known risk complication of the possibility of what they call nicking or cutting into a local organ, whether that be your colon or your bladder. And obviously, sepsis can really set in pretty fast for people and do some real damage pretty quickly. When I got to the ER and they determined that I had sepsis, they couldn't believe that I had gone two weeks since the surgery. They actually told me. I remember after I did my CT scan, a doctor came in and his face was white, which is obviously very scary. When the doctor comes in and he said, we can't actually believe that you are the same person that we're seeing on these test results. We can't believe that you actually walked in here because you shouldn't have been able to walk in here. And what.

People who have what you have are doubled over in pain. They're not standing upright. They're, you know, in complete miserable pain. Fevers, the whole works.

Yes, and I was definitely in pain. But it's crazy because I. Looking back, I understood that I had fevers during the, you know, two weeks, but I just didn't. I was so out of it, I didn't even really put it together. And so I was actually past the point. So my temperature was normal. My. What's the other thing that they always look for? There's temp. One other thing I can't think of. But then what signaled them was my heart rate. My resting heart rate was really crazy. And so at that point, I learned later, like, you're. I was very close to basically some of my organs shutting down, you know, because my body was just working so hard. And so, long story short, they had to roll me into emergency surgery. They. And that's when they figured out that I'd been burned in three places in my intestines during that surgery, obviously unknowingly, but they ended up having to cut out half of my colon because it couldn't be saved. The ER doc told me later that it was like trying to sew back together ground beef. So out comes half the colon. I lost about 8 inches of small intestine, my ileocecal valve, appendix, so lots of stuff in there. And they ended up giving me a temporary ileostomy. So for those that don't know what that is, basically, when you. If you've ever heard of somebody having a bag where your stool comes in, out into that bag on your stomach. So I Had that and mucous fistula and lots of other things going on. And that's basically. I had two emergency surgeries that weekend and had to fight for my life.

That's a huge deal. And I really want women to understand the gravity of when your surgeon or gynecologist says to you, you could have a bowel or bladder injury, you had a bowel injury. You had a thermal burn to your bowels. And the problem with thermal burns is that they continue after they've started. So if I have a hot instrument that I'm burning blood vessels with and cutting out that fibroid with, if I touch your bowel with that, it continues to burn in the. It spreads, and it takes a while for that damage to really progress into what ends up being a hole in your bowel. And then, like you said, your stool goes out into your abdomen and causes a major infection. And that's what, you know, ended up happening for you. And I. I love pointing out to women that there's no compartments in our abdomen. Our bowels live right on top of our pelvic organs. So anything can affect anything. The bowels lay right on the ovaries and the fallopian tubes and the uterus, and they are all free game to be injured and affected by infection and surgery and everything. So, unfortunately, your story isn't that uncommon. You know, you. You went to the extreme, I think, because you have such a high pain tolerance, somehow you lasted so long. Most people are in the ER a little bit sooner. But unfortunately, bowel and bladder injuries are really common with laparoscopic surgery. And I will say the more prominent the institution, the more likely are they are to be a teaching institution. Therefore, you have residents and medical students performing surgery, and so the complications are a little bit higher. So that is one point that I don't think a lot of women realize is, I'm going to the best place with the best people. Yeah, those best people are teaching other people. So that isn't, you know, another key point. But I just. I love that you fought your way through, you figured it all out, and then you're sharing this with women, because I think we are quick to just jump in and have our organs removed and have surgery for a fix. And, you know, I've heard you on other podcasts talking about, like, sometimes you do have to have surgery. You know, I was mentioning this in my fibroid episode. Like, sometimes they are too big to shrink on their own because you're losing blood and you're getting anemic and it's affecting work and life and. Or you're having bladder leakage and constipation because the fibroid is so big that it's blocking things. So we're not saying no surgery. Right. Like, we're just saying, like, be informed, understand the possible complications, and don't hesitate to reach out and say, something's wrong, something's going on here, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel like you just explained what happened to me in the most beautiful way that I've ever heard, because I don't. That like explaining how the thermal process works, you know, and that those burns. That's exactly really what happened to me. Right. Was a small burn that they didn't notice that over those two weeks, expanded. Right. And so who knows at what point things started dumping into my abdominal cavity. But I think a lot of people can't visualize. Exactly. So thank you for doing that, because I'm like, that's the best version I've ever heard explained to me about it.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think a lot of women understand laparoscopic surgery. We're putting instruments in your abdominal cavity that look like long tubes with the instrument on the very end, like little scissors, little burn instruments, scalpels, different things. And they're only 5 to 1 centimeter, so 5 millimeters to 1 centimeter long, so they're like the size of your fingernail. But you have energy going through there. You were using energy to burn things. And we didn't do that in traditional open surgery. It was a lot of cutting with cold scalpels and tying with suture knots and things like that. Whereas laparoscopic, we use a ton of thermal energy. So there's a lot of potential for burns. And I don't think that's really understood, you know, for most people and even some doctors, like, if you talk to a family practice doctor, I don't think they really understand, like, what's happening in the surgery. Only surgeons really can get that. So.

Right.

I think it's important for women to say, like, how is this surgery going to be done? You know, have some idea of going in, because we just take for granted, and we just sign up for whatever, you know.

Absolutely. Yeah. And the informed consent piece, I think, is missing a lot of the time. I mean, I've had people say to me, you know, and on social media, sometimes they're getting ready to go into a surgery. They're like, I'm sorry, what happened to you? But, like, this is not common at all. And I say, you know, if You've decided on surgery, like 100%. Go in with, you know, the best energy and intention around that. You know, most of them will be fine. But if you really want to know what's going on, you know, get in an ostomy support group. There are way too many women in there that have had a gynecological surgery, whether that be a hysterectomy or myomectomy or something else lead to having an ostomy. You know, so it is something that. And there is, you know, I've done some research and there are a few studies that show, you know, the rates. I feel like some of the studies aren't that recent, so I feel like they need to do some more. Especially as you're talking about laparoscopic being used more often and these thermal tools being used more often.

Yeah, exactly. You know, I think it's common for women to be told there's a possibility of a bladder injury because the bladder literally is connected to the uterus. It lays on the front of the uterus and has this fold that has to be separated off. So they are kind of connected in a more intimate way than the bowels. So surgeons are more apt to talk about bladder injuries. But bowel injuries are just as important. Well, I would say. I would argue they're more important because the effects of the complication of infection and sepsis are much bigger than injury. So bladder injuries we usually catch pretty quick. So.

Right. Actually, I just had a client who had to get a J pouch recreated and they actually nicked her bladder during surgery. But saw that. Right. And so they were able to fix it in that time. But it was a reminder how often these things do happen. And I saw, you know, CT scan or something later of picture of how close the colon is to the uterus. Right. Like, if you think, you know, in general, women's. I mean, it's just our bodies have to house a lot in a really small area down there, you know, so everything is really close and, you know, barely. Like there's barely any room in between them, you know, so it's like. Well, yeah, it makes sense. Especially if you're going in there with just cameras and everything and not seeing, you know, all of the little things that can happen.

Yeah, there's over 20ft of small intestines alone that have to be jam packed in there. And literally your colon and your intestines move. They peristals, they contract. So they are moving during surgery. And, you know, we try to get the bowels out of the way, but sometimes they like to be in the way.

Yep, absolutely.

Really common issue. So we probably taught everybody a lot of stuff today, hopefully more than they ever need to know. Hopefully no one else encounters this, but unfortunately, there will probably be a few women. So this is really helpful. And I just want to talk about, like, the amazing things you created out of this because you went on to say, women need to know what's going on with their bodies. And let's talk a little bit about the fact that you have this hormone imbalance that was driving your fibroid growth, right? So I think women want to understand that a little bit more. So let's unpack that.

Oh, you know, one of the biggest things that happened, after all I had, you know, I couldn't work for a year, so I really had some time to think about, well, what do I want to do next? Because it took my dance career away from me. Obviously, I couldn't dance, you know, with. I had a, as I mentioned, ostomy. I had a womb back for a couple of months, and so that was out the door. So, you know, when I went through this experience and thought, well, what do I want to do with it? Really, it came down to I want to know why I had the fibroid in the first place, right? And so I want to learn as much as I can about hormones because I understand that that is a hormonal imbalance, you know, and while it's certainly not simplistic at all, you know, and that I've worked with many women with fibroids now, and there's definitely a lot of angles that we need to come in, you know, so I'll kind of talk about, I feel like, what. What's the most important aspects? So first, estrogen, you know, and I say this was the caveat because I was in this mindset forever. Like, estrogen is bad, and it's like, no, we need estrogen, we love estrogen. Talk to a woman that has just hit menopause and has no estrogen. Like, it's so important for our brain health, our bone health, our heart health, so many things, right? Feeling vibrant, our skin looking good, etc. So it's not about estrogen. It's about how out of control estrogen has had a chance to become versus your progesterone levels. And in my experience, I mean, they're connected. They go hand in hand. But it's not even really just about your estrogen levels, but it's how your body is metabolizing the estrogen, right? Yeah, this is what I look to first and foremost. Because the thing is, once you start metabolizing your estrogen properly, your, your estrogen, your overall estrogen levels or your estradiol will usually level out on its own, right? It's because the metabolism is not happening in the way that it needs to be happening in your liver and your phase one and phase two detox and then in your gut, you know, what we call phase three. And so, you know, one of the things that I recognize pretty quickly in starting to do the Dutch test for those that don't know that's, you know, a hormone test, dried urine test, is seeing how my estrogen was metabolizing. And I definitely, I was actually struggling in both phases. You know, both phase one and phase two, I kind of ricochet back and forth between favoring what's called the 4oh pathway and then the 16oh pathway. So, you know, a lot of times people, or you'll read that you'll favor the 16OH pathway with fibroids and ovarian cysts and things that grow essentially. Right. Because that 16 oh is about sort of the growth factor. But honestly, I've seen just as many women favor that 4oh pathway with fibroids too. So, you know, that's the first thing that I look for at this point with women with fibroids. And then, you know, you want to. Often the goal is to push that estrogen down, the 2OH more protective pathway, away from that 4OH and 16OH pathways. But a lot of times women will maybe upregulate what we call that phase one, but don't do enough support of the phase two. Right. And we want to make sure, because phase one is really about taking, you know, whatever kind of toxin. And if estrogen hangs around in your body for too long, it's essentially a toxin, taking that toxin and making it a little less toxic in phase one. Right. But phase two is where we're getting into making it water soluble. So it's really, that's the place where things become the least toxic. And so you want to make sure both of those phases are working well. And then phase three too. You know, so, so often I think it's forgotten about that phase three, which, because once your liver has metabolized that estrogen and done all that hard work, it puts it in the bile, bile goes into your gut, you know, into your colon, and then you want, want all of that to go out of your body. Right. But unfortunately, if your microbiome is off, then of course that estrogen can end up recirculating in the system basically. And then your liver has to do all that hard work all over again, you know, so you can't just focus on the liver. You absolutely have to focus on, you know, your, your intestines, your colon too, and often start there. You want to make sure that's working.

You're speaking my language.

Yes.

That's why I call myself the guy Gutsy gynecologist. I just, I tried to just focus on hormones for so long because that's how I was trained, you know, and the band aid approach and nothing ever improves until you heal the gut is just 100% truth of it. Like.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Right.

Yep. It's like all of, you know, all of our, the toxic elements that we have to deal with need to get out via our bowels. Right. I mean that's really, they are there to just get all that stuff out. So if that's not working properly, then toxins are just going to be hanging out in your body and that's when they wreck havoc, you know, and your poor liver has to like work even harder. Yeah.

So we, we need to focus on the gut, we need to focus on the liver.

Yep.

What's the other thing driving fibroids and hormone imbalances that you see all the time?

Adrenals.

Yeah.

And this is, this is actually probably what I feel like was the biggest aspect for me. You know, certainly not to take away from gut and liver issues, even though my gut was actually pretty good at the time. But adrenal dysregulation is what we call it right now. We just call it adrenal fatigue. Even though I wasn't ever at the fatigued place, I was more at sort of that high cortisol output still. You know, eventually our body will downregulate and make it low, but I was definitely dysregulated and I had, you know, as I see many of my clients, you know, I had my own business. I was just overdoing it on all ends. I was actually just talking about this, this weekend. I didn't allow my emotional self to come out because I had to like hold it all together all the time. Right. So there was a lot of suppression of emotions going on at that time, which actually does impact our adrenals and lots of other parts of our body. But, you know, I also was an over giver and I think that's huge. Women across the board. You know, in my situation with my business, I was like over giving and over giving and felt you know, I had to do all these things all the time, and so my boundaries were essentially non existent. And this is one of the biggest things that I teach my clients and women in my programs now, like learning how to set boundaries and understanding what boundaries look like. Not just like. I think a lot of people say, oh, just say no. Just say no to things. And it's like, okay, let's break that down a little further because some, a lot of the times it's saying no to ourselves. You know, it's like, is setting these boundaries within ourselves, and that can be harder to parse out. So I think it's helpful to have either a therapist or in a program with other people to really get down to the nitty gritty of where you are boundaryless. Because if you think about that, it's like everything is just being sucked out of you and you're not getting anything in return. And those adrenals are just like running, running, running and trying to keep up, right? And eventually, as I mentioned, they're going to downregulate because the brain is smart, the body's smart, and it's like, this isn't working, so we're gonna stop doing that. And that's when you have women that struggle to get out of bed, you know, and often continue to push. And the body's like. And for me, I feel that that component just because there, you know, there's connections with cortisol and estrogen too, but I just felt like it really fed my fibroid on kind of an emotional soul level too, you know, so it's like, it's a little esoteric, but.

No, it's a total metaphor. Like the fact that fibroids don't respect the boundaries of the uterus muscle. They continue to grow beyond what they're supposed to grow because they don't have any boundaries. And it's, it, it's clear in the literature that fibroids and other pelvic conditions are associated with trauma earlier in life. And so if you have all these suppressed feelings, you're suppressing them in your pelvis and you don't have boundaries. Those things do grow. You get fibroids, you get endometriosis. We've seen it time and time again. The studies just pan out. And we don't have the good physiology to explain it as of yet, but it's there. And so we do need to acknowledge that, because that's how women heal, is they work on that piece of it, right?

Yes, 100%. And honestly, if you Don't. They'll keep growing. They'll keep being there. They'll come back. And I'm glad you brought up that trauma component, because it's not just about the everyday stress or boundaries setting in your life now. It is about processing trauma in whatever way that works for you. You know, so personally, I really like somatic therapy because I feel like the issues are in our tissues, you know, and really working with a skilled therapist who knows how to help you process it and so that you don't re. Traumatize, essentially. You know, there's different things that work for different people, but I'm a big proponent of that. I just don't. I think that the body will keep calling to you via the growth of these fibroids and other things. You know, a lot of times women ovarian cysts along with fibroids or fibrocystic breasts. And so it's. It's super important. And I will say that my. My biggest blog post is actually the spiritual aspect of fibroids, that I think women are on a deep level, know that that is a big part of it and know that there are some changes that need to be made.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad that you're tackling that issue and that women are seeking that out because, like, that piece for me makes so much sense. I just think we are mind, body, spirit, and so much of what's going on in our soul manifests physically. And we all have skeletons in our closet. We all have something that nags us in the back of our mind that we might not be thinking about outrightly, consciously on a daily basis, but our subconscious is stewing over that and creating toxic chemicals in our cells that cause our cells to go rogue and create tumors. And until you, like, process that crap and just actually deal with it, those diseases will continue to fester. And we just. We live in a society that we just want to pretend none of that exists. You know, that our soul is se separate from our body, that our brain is separate from our body, and it's all a bunch of crap. Like everything's interconnected. And it's so important to tackle those.

Pieces, you know, And I think, you know, what I said about going through suppressing my own emotions during that time of trying to build my business and all of that. I see that with women all the time. You know, they're like, I have to be strong because I am the caretaker, the breadwinner, the doing it all. This whole, like, hustle mentality that we got into. You know, I'd say, like, things have shifted since COVID although it's gotten worse for some women. But like pre, Pre Covid, right? There was this like five year period of like, what's your side hustle? Like, what's the. You know, and of course it's become harder because for survival for some people, they need multiple things that they're doing, you know, to bring in money and those kinds of things. But it's such a trap, right? It's such a trap. And, you know, I, I totally get it. I have women come to me and they're like, instead of what pill can I take, like, what supplement can I take? You know?

Right.

They're swapping it out. Right, Right. And I'm like, you know, you can take all the supplements you can eat, the perfect diet, quote, unquote, you can work out, which is what I see a lot of women do, right? They're like, okay, I'm doing all these things. And that's, that's part of the issue too, right? It's like you're trying to sort of keep this regimented thing and this is not really what your body is calling you to do, right?

It's.

It's calling for reconnection, really.

Exactly. I think we want to be in control of every aspect and we completely ignore that there's a higher power and a bigger reason for us being here. And we just want to, to make it simple, materialistic, like, yep, let's just enjoy life. And there's so much more to it. And if your soul doesn't feel like it's getting what it needs, if you're not feeding your soul, it's going to be sick. So.

Exactly. You know, and I have to be reminded this by other people all the time too. I just saw a practitioner last week where it kind of brought it back for me. Right. We're here to actually enjoy life and it doesn't feel like that a lot of the time. Right. Because we're just kind of slogging through our days. And this is not the purpose of any of us being here to like, slog through our days to get to this, like, place in the future. You know, it's like that's old programming, that's old ideas, you know, that keeps people stuck and keeps people sick.

Yeah, exactly. And you, you hit on the words have to, like, I have to have to do this. I hear so many of my patients telling me why they have to keep their job and not move on, why they have to stay in this broken relationship, like they have. We all have the excuses. I do the same thing.

100.

This is where you have to. You have to get mindful and aware of the words that you're using because they're so powerful in creating the actions that. That change your future. And so I would encourage women to, like, start doing some of this deeper work and not just Google, like, what do I physically need to do to fix my fibroids and my pelvic issues and my hormone imbalances? Like, what do I need to heal my spirit on a deeper level, you know, to get myself back into balance? Wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely, 100%. And I did an interview for my podcast last week that I thought was. Was so important and poignant to remember too, is that, you know, when our body does call to us, it is asking us to go on a journey of deep healing. Right. And that it's really scary because sometimes it does mean quitting your job. Sometimes it does mean leaving that partner. Sometimes it. You know, it's what seems like the hardest decision and the impossible decision, but when we make opens up a whole different world. And when you come out on the other side, you're just amazed by the life that you have now, you know, and so I know how hard that is when you're, like, sitting there and you're like, but I don't. I can't. I, like, I don't want to make these changes, you know, like, this is going to be horrendous. I've been there so many times, and I will say that again in my life, you know, but it's actually incredible when you do, I think, follow your body signals. And often it is those deep, scary changes that are going to take you to the best places.

Yeah. That is literally the only way I was able to heal was to give up my amazing job as an attending that took me so long to get and staff position and director of the department and, you know, give up, up the security of the salary and the 401k and all of that stuff. But, yeah, it was killing me. It was very toxic. And that was a super hard decision. And I will tell you, being on the other side, I wouldn't have it any other way. You know, I'm like, so happy I did it. And it was the scariest thing I've ever done because, yeah, I was the breadwinner. You know, I had to pay the bills, take care of my family. But. But if you have faith and you know that the world is there for your good and things are going to go in your favor, then you don't have to worry about it. Like, it will work out. That's. I truly believe that, so.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I do think we are at a time in history where this is coming up big time for women. Right. It is like the time where the universe, what have you, is calling us to really step into ourselves, step into what we want our lives to be, step into the future that we want to create, not just internally, but externally. Right. Because we all know that there's a lot of crap out there right now that things aren't going away that most people aren't happy with, you know, and so really connecting to what your body is telling you, you know, connecting to. I mean, in whatever way that. That works for you. You know, some people it's meditation. Some people it's visualization. Sometimes it's working with different practitioners that can kind of get you there, you know, like, I need help a lot of times to get to that spiritual side, even though I know it's a big part of me, you know? And so, like, working with a practitioner to help me get there is. Is such a big part. And I just always feel like, honestly, after, you know, those sessions, because it's. It brings me back to everything's connected, right? And nature, like, we've hurt nature so much, and we continue to sort of use and abuse nature. And it's like nature is us, you know, and we can't continue to do that and be healthy. And I feel like, for me, personally, I live in the. The Blue Ridge Mountains in North Carolina, and I feel so lucky because I go out there and I hike, and just getting out there and hiking is like. Like, worth 10 massages, you know, I mean, it's such a beautiful thing. And I know not everybody has that ability to go outside and have such, you know, beauty. And obviously it's very hot right now in lots of parts of the world, but finding time to really be in nature is so incredibly healing because we're. We're meant to be. We are nature, you know?

Exactly. I love that. I love that. For me, it's water. Like, I need to be Lake Michigan or some kind of body of water, Feel the sand, those types of things.

I still love that, too.

Yeah. You have to find what just feeds your soul and connects you back to the earth. I think that's so important.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

I hope that somebody out there listening today is just like, you know what? I do need to feed my inner child. I need to do that inner work. I need to figure out why I have, you know, dysfunction in my body. And maybe it's more than just the supplements I'm taking or not taking or the food I'm eating or not eating. So yeah. Oh my gosh. If women are feeling compelled and they want to work with you, let how can they find you?

So you can go to my website, which is Christine Garvin. And you know, I have options to work with me one on one. I also have some self guided programs, actually have a, you know, if you're just kind of learning, you have a fibroid or maybe you know somebody that has a fibroid and you're don't. You don't know enough about your options yet. I do have a Fibroids 101 course that covers all of the sort of, you know, surgical but natural approaches. And you know, I feel like my goal with that is to empower women, women to really understand all of their options and start doing stuff to support. And I definitely talk about the spiritual side in there. I talk about we didn't get into xenoestrogens, but you know, chemicals in our environment that also impact our estrogen levels and particularly, you know, plastic and things that we, you know, shampoos and things that we wash our face with and all those kinds of things. So I go over all of those. So that's a great place to start if you are interested. And then I also have another. I'll be doing my hormone breakthrough blueprint program again this fall, which is a 10 week program that kind of dives into all of the good stuff about getting your hormones in check. Sort of. Particularly. Yeah, particularly in that 30s and 40s range where things start going a little wacky. You know, there's so many foundations that we're missing out on and understanding more about our gut and our adrenals and liver. And we go into all of that. Awesome.

Okay, so all that's in the show notes. You guys need to check that out. That's amazing. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. You're doing amazing work and I hope everybody follows you on Instagram and checks you out because you're awesome.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was awesome talking to you.

Okay. I know you got something out of that, that episode that was so good. Oh my gosh. Send me a message. Let me know what you got out of it. I know there was some amazing golden nuggets that you're gonna take with you and start incorporating in your life. I know for me, I always need that reset button. I always need that reminder that, hey, you gotta do the inner work, you gotta look deeper, you have to reconnect with your higher power. You know, I go to church, I listen to the word, I read the living, breathing word of the Bible. Like that does it for me. That keeps me alive and keeps me grounded and focused on my bigger mission in life so that I don't get caught up in the day to day struggles and fears and worries of all this stuff that always balance out and works out. Like, I don't need to waste my time and energy on all of that stuff because I know at the core God's got this, God's got me. My life is, you know, planned out for me. Things are always in my best interest and if bad things come my way, that it will work out. Like that is just a core belief belief that I have, that is called faith, right? And that gets me through. And so you, if you haven't, I would encourage you to figure out what is your core belief about you on this earth at this time, right now in existence and how you're connected with being here in your higher power and why you're here and what it all means. And I know that sounds really deep, but at a basic level you should know, like, do you really think you're here for suffering and pain and struggle? Do you really think that you're here to repeat the same mistakes and, you know, not live an amazing, beautiful life? Like some people really feel cursed or they, they feel like they're supposed to struggle their entire life and never get ahead. And I just don't believe that. I believe that we are supposed to learn our lessons and move forward, but we also have to believe that there's better opportunities and that there is a better future and that there's not more of the same. Because think about it. Like when we wake up in the morning, our brain immediately starts thinking of all the things that we need to do, all the things that we didn't finish yesterday. Then we start having the feelings that we had yesterday and the day before and the day before. And literally the majority of people on this earth repeat the, the feelings and actions from the day before. And so literally we live in the past and we don't grow and move forward the majority of our life. That daily grind and routine is us living in our past, repeating our past because we're not stopping to be thoughtful enough to say, let's have a different thought process, process. Let's create different actions that lead to different behaviors that result in different outcomes. And so that is what I want to get you to do is I want you to start having an inkling of, huh, if I change the way I think as soon as I wake up in the morning, maybe I'll change my actions. Maybe my actions will turn into better, different habits that are healthier and more aligned with what I want as a person in this life and then that will change my future outcome. Okay, like this is some deep stuff. This is all Joe Dispenza. If you want to go and read and watch and study Joe Dispenza, I would encourage you to do that. Like it's life changing. To really delve into the idea that you have control of your future. You have control of what's happening. And this is my theme for this episode. You have control of what happens with your body. You have control of what people do to your body, what they don't do to your body. And if, and at the very least you have control of how you re respond to what things were done to your body. That's what I Learned as a 17 year old girl is okay. They irradiated my thyroid. I didn't understand what I was signing up for. I laid on the table, I got injected with stuff. They changed the course of my life because I didn't know any better to speak up. But I know how to act, act going forward. I know how to change things. I know how to respond to what was done to me. And if you can learn those lessons and shift and change and do something different next time or help other people do something different, that's what it's all about. So I know this is deep and I, I apologize. I don't apologize. I take that back. I do want you to do this work. It is a little bit uncomfortable and maybe you're driving with your kids in a car or maybe you thought you were just going for a light walk and listening to how to like take supplements for my fibroids. But I promise you, you need to think about this stuff. So if this isn't the time, come back and do it later, you know, or, or look at work of Jodas Spencer or open the Bible and start reading like how people are truly meant to live. And I, I think that you're going to be pleasantly surprised that once you are living in alignment with what your soul wants to do, your body starts to feel better and gets healthy because it is functioning. It's not, not fighting against all of that dysfunction and dis. Ease in your soul. So let me know what you think. I. I'm a work in progress, and I'm just sharing with you as I go and what I learned because I think it's so important. So I want to hear about you and what you're learning and what you're dealing with. And let me know if this is helpful to you. So I love you. Ladies. Ladies. And you got this.

All right?

Go. Having a kick ass week.