3 Traits that Negatively Affect Our Thoughts & How to Gradually Break Free from Your Limitations

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Hi besties and welcome to a brand new Almost Adulting the largest self love podcast and movement, your number one destination for personal growth and mental health. I'm your big sister and your host, Violeta. So our guest today is Jay Shetty. He is the number one New York Times bestselling author of the books Think Like a Monk and his newest one, which we'll discuss today, eight Rules of Love. He's also the host of the award winning podcast On Purpose and chief purpose officer of Calm. Welcome.

Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's so nice to be in your home. I appreciate it. Thank you for being so welcoming and gracious.

Yeah. And I also love that your eyes match your shirt. It looks really good.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Did you know only 2% of people in the world have green eyes?

I did not know that. Is that true?

Are you joking?

I genuinely did not know that.

Oh, I just assume anyone with green eyes were part of the 2%.

Yeah, my wife.

Oh, your wife. Okay.

Do you have green eyes too?

Thank God. Okay, then it would just seem like everyone has green eyes. That's so funny. How did you not know that? I feel like normally people with blue or green eyes were like, look at my eyes.

It's so funny. I feel like when you grow up with something, whether it's eyes or a skill or whatever it may be, you don't notice it. Like, you don't notice it as much when you have something. You notice it when you. When other people notice it because you kind of see it as normal.

Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. That's true. All right, so I'm just shallow?

No.

Cool.

Not at all. Not at all.

Okay, so before we dive into your book, which we have here, if you're watching the video, this is right here. It's an awesome book and I've been loving it. But before we dive into the book, I thought it'll be nice to kind of get to know you since on your show a lot of the time you dive into your guests. So I thought this was love that.

Let's do it.

Your journey has taken you from being a monk to becoming a popular motivational speaker, New York Times best selling author. And I was kind of wondering, how did you make that transition and what was the biggest challenge you would say that you faced during that process?

I mean, the transition is like you're looking at like 10 years, you know, of time in between. So I left the monastery exactly 10 years ago, right now. And so the journey you see is like, it looks quick online sometimes, but then the actual journey is so much more slower and harder. And I'd say the transition Happened in so many different phases. And that's kind of how I think a lot of our life transitions happen. So when I left the monastery, I ended up moving back in with my parents in London. And for, like, 12 months, I was just struggling to find work. No one wanted to hire someone who'd been a monk before. People were like, what are your transferable skills? Sitting still and being silent. Like, we don't need that.

Right.

And so I just spent a lot of time, like, trying to find myself again, reconnect again. I'd forgotten how to do small talk. This would have been really tough for me to do. Like, I would have. I didn't know who the Prime Minister of England was. I didn't know who won the World Cup. I didn't know what the latest movies were or music was. I had no idea. And so there was a whole period that was just reconnecting. And so the version of me you see today is like, going back to being myself and reconnected again. But at that time, there was this whole phase of just reintegration and reconnecting with society. Then after that, I went back into the world of work, which really helped me kind of get a sense of what was going on and how things were. And then after working in the corporate world for around two, three years, that's when I was like, I don't feel like this is my purpose. I don't feel like this is what I was meant to do. I feel like I had that experience because I wanted to share what I'd learned to help people. I've learned all these amazing techniques like meditation and mindfulness, and I've learned so many disciplines, and I've learned so much incredible wisdom from this experience. My goal myself must be to have to share it with people. And I was sharing it while I was working in the companies and everything. So the biggest challenge I'd say I've had, which I think hopefully will relate to the people that are watching and listening right now, is allowing yourself to change. Allowing yourself to say, I want to be more and it's okay to want to transform and change and grow. I don't have to stay stuck. I don't have to stay the same if I don't want to. And I think that's the greatest challenge that you go through, is allowing yourself, giving yourself the permission to be more of who you are.

Right. Because normally before you make that decision or say that to yourself, a lot of times people first look at that as failure. They think, oh, I failed.

Exactly.

Versus Saying, I'm allowed to change my mind anytime, or I'm allowed to wake up today and decide that this is not enough for me. So how do you kind of switch from feeling like a failure or not enough versus being like, no, this is just, you know, rock bottom and just only up from here?

Yeah. Well, I look at it as how much time we have. Right. Like, I think that a lot of us don't recognize a lot of us now today feel like, gosh, I'm getting old. And it's like, we're not even that old. Right.

That's so true.

Yeah. Like you're in your 30s or your 40s, or even your 50s, and if you're in your 20s, you're definitely, you know, definitely not. And if you're in your teens, you're definitely not. And it's like we start putting this timeline and deadline on where we're at. And I kind of look at life and go, there is no timeline or deadline. There is no schedule. And I think we think about life as a schedule because someone in our life told us, go to college, get a good job, get married, buy a house, like, whatever it is, right? There was this laid out plan, and we're measuring ourself according to that plan, as opposed to saying, wait a minute, there is no plan. I can only live my life. And so I think we have to disconnect from society's approach to what life should look like and recognize there is no should look like, there's only the life you want to live.

Yeah, I agree. Over the course of your career, of everything you've done, what would you say the worst advice you've ever gotten?

It's a good question. I'd actually say it applies to that. The worst advice I've ever got is, you're too old, you're too young, you're too early, you're too late.

Right.

You're too under qualified, you're too overqualified. I feel like we put these extremes on. We put these limits, boundaries, deadlines, schedules. And I think that's bad advice. The amount of people that have said to me, jay, I think you're too old to be doing this, or you're too young to be doing this, or, jay, you know what? You're just too under qualified for this role. Like, I think I've heard that so many times, and I think we start to internalize these statements, and then we give up on our dreams or the things that are important to us. And I think we live in a world right now Where I see, you know, you see 70 year old YouTubers, you see 10 year old YouTubers, YOU see people doing things as and when they want and can. And I think we've changed. I think the world has shifted and changed. Where like someone may say, well, I wanted to be an athlete and I'm too old to be a Premier League football player. Sure. But that doesn't mean you can't play football on the weekends or the evenings, or it doesn't stop you from doing what you want to do. And I think that's the worst advice that I've ever heard of. Like, it's not gonna work. That's not a good idea. It's only not a good idea if you don't try it out.

Yeah. I mean, my mom, whenever I'm afraid of doing anything, my mom always taught me that I'm only a loser because I always get scared of being a loser. If I fail people, everyone will know. But she said, you're only a loser if you don't try.

Yeah.

And I agree. Do you feel that sometimes when people give you that advice, you're too young or too old? This. And that is because they're projecting, because they're scared they can never do it.

Yeah. I think it comes, and I have compassion for that because I think we all project our limits onto other people and we all project our insecurities onto other people. It's like if your friend says to you, oh, I'm thinking about moving country, and you've thought about it before but you don't think it's a good idea or you're scared about it. Now when they say, you go, oh, no, no. But have you thought about this, this and this? And you, like, you give them your thought process and they're like, yeah, but those are not things I worry about. So I think a lot of us, when we're giving advice or receiving advice, need to recognize we need to not project our insecurities and our issues onto other people. And same when you hear advice from other people, make sure that you're not just adopting their insecurities and their issues. You have to filter that out for yourself.

Yeah, I agree. When my family and I won the green card lottery, all of our family members told us not to move. It would be so stupid for my father this age. He was in his 50s and thank God my dad didn't listen and he moved our family to the US and then everyone else wanted to follow our footsteps afterwards.

Yeah, exactly. And that's a great example. Right. And I think that happens with everything. It's like your friend says to you, you know what? I'm thinking of quitting my job and I want to start a podcast or I want to, you know, whatever it may be. Now, you've also got to understand that when your friend projects their issues and insecurities, we shouldn't be upset about that. It's just someone trying to care for you and they're trying to show you love or they're looking out for you. And often thinking it through is actually pretty helpful because I also think we live in a world that, you know, I feel like we. We also just take these big rush changes as well. Like, I think a lot of us are also living the other extreme, where it's like, oh, I'm just gonna do it anyway, it doesn't matter. And it's like, maybe the middle approach is better. Like, when I was trying to find my passion and my purpose, I was also working a day job that paid my bills. And I spend my evenings and weekends doing what I love. And I think that that transition's healthy because it provides safety, it provides support. Whereas if I would have just thrown everything away and made this jump, maybe it wouldn't have worked. Because you don't create great work out of scarcity. You don't create great work out of fear and insecurity.

Oh, I like that. That is a really good point. I also like the fact that you looked at the other perspective of the fact that your friends or your family, all that they're not coming from a bad place when they're giving you poor advice. They're actually coming because that's all they know and they're just trying to be helpful. That's a nice perspective to have.

I just want to live with no bitterness in my heart. You know, I made that commitment a long time ago. I was like, I don't want to live having bitter feelings or negative feelings towards any person or any group of people because it doesn't carry me well. Like, it doesn't make me feel good to walk around with a bitter heart.

I like that. And I know you focus a lot about that, and I've spoken about that on my podcast as well, that people don't understand how much negative emotions can actually affect your day to day life.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's three things that I talk about which I learned during my time in the monastery. It's in my first book, Think Like a Monk. Our teachers would call it the cancers of the mind. And so they said complaining Comparing and criticizing were the cancers of the mind. When we complain, reoccurringly, we lose control of the situation. When you're complaining, you're basically saying, I can't influence this. So when you lose influence, you lose your ability to transform your life. When you compare, you're setting yourself up for failure. Because here's the thing. If you feel ahead of other people, you will always feel behind other people in both ways. So if you're like, I'm now feeling ahead of the pack, that means one day you'll feel behind. If you're saying, now I'm number one, one day you'll feel like number two. And so when we place these comparisons, we think when we're at the top, it will feel amazing. It won't. Because if you lived your life on comparison, even if you're at the top, you're now insecure and unsettled because you're like, what if I lose this spot? And so comparing and then criticizing is probably the most obvious one out of all of them. Like, I remember when we were kids, we would watch people on tv, me and my friends, and we'd laugh at, like, how's that person on tv? They're not even talented. Like, who are they? Who do they think they are? But then what were we doing? We were just sitting on our couches. So I remember being that kid where we were just so critical of other people. And as time's gone on, I realized that. But that person tried. They put themselves out there. Yes, they maybe made mistakes. Yeah, they're probably not perfect, but at least they put themselves out there, whereas I'm just sitting on the couch, you know, criticizing. And so removing, complaining, comparing and criticizing. Now, that doesn't mean you can't open up to your friends. It doesn't mean you can't share how you feel.

Right.

Like, I'm not saying you can't do any of that stuff, but I'm just saying being mindful of that can help.

How do we then shift our mindset from being negative to weight? Because. Because it's easier said than done to be like, oh, today I'm happy and everything's gonna be good. And people, I think, put too much weight on emotions in general. They think being sad or angry or whatever it is is negative. It's bad, versus it's just passing emotion. So how do you kind of able to shift those feelings?

Yeah, so I feel like there's. There's four things that we're experiencing at any moment. Our thoughts, our actions, our feelings. And that inner sense of knowing that we all have. So you have your thinking, you're behaving, you're feeling and you're knowing. And what you just said is, and I agree with you, we place way too much emphasis on our feelings. And our feelings are, like you just said, they're near, they can move, they can pass, they're here, they're gone. They change. But the way you change your feelings is not with how you feel. The way you change your feelings is by how you think, how you act, and how you know. And so I spend more time trying to think, am I happy with the thoughts in my head? Not am I feeling happy?

Oh, I like that.

Right? Am I happy with what I do with my day? Not am I feeling happy? Because if I change my thoughts and I change my actions, I will change how I feel, but I'm not going to change my feelings by my feelings.

That's really interesting. That's a really good perspective.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I've been really spending a lot of time on that recently because I agree with you so much that I wake up feeling tired sometimes. I wake up feeling like, oh, I don't want to get up today. I have those feelings.

Jay Shetty has those feelings.

I have those feelings. Yeah, I genuinely do. And I realized, but that feeling, I can't do anything with it. Or all I can do is accept it. I'm not going to pretend it's not there. I'm not going to pretend to be positive. I'm not going to say, I'm Jay Shetty. I have to pretend to be positive. That's not going to help anyone. And I wouldn't say to anyone, hey, just say something positive to yourself. Be happy. That doesn't work. That's toxic positivity. And so what I would suggest is focus on, let me change my thoughts and let me change my actions. So if I now change my thought to be, I am tired, but I will sleep early tonight. Right. I am feeling a bit upset this morning. I'll reflect for a few minutes today and journal to figure out what's going on. All of a sudden, I've changed my thought from being I'm tired to I'm tired and I'll sleep early. And I've added a behavior which means my thoughts and behaviors will change how I feel.

I love that. Right. So ends as a solution, because I think a lot of times we don't realize that whatever we're feeling has to do with other things. Like, for the longest time, I Was I was anxious with driving. And I kept thinking it was because I was just scared of driving. And then I really sat and went backwards to figure out, why am I so scared of driving? And I realized, because when I get on the road, on the freeway specifically, I have no control over other people. And I was like, oh, it's my control issues. And then once I've processed, okay, I can. I cannot control other people. I can control myself in my car. So once I came to that process, I realized, I'm not scared of driving. I'm just a control freak, and I need to get over it.

That's such a great example. That's a great example. If you had to change your thoughts in order to change how you feel.

Yeah.

Because you can't just say, I'm going to be a good driver. I love driving. Everything's okay. Like, you can't just say that. It doesn't solve the problem. And so I love that example. That's a great example. Right.

But I don't think I always realize that that's how I think. So I love the. Everything that you said because it's a reminder for myself because a lot of times I can be in my feelings, and I. And I love. Yeah, I love the processing backwards. Okay, what can I do? What actions can I take to change? Yeah, this. I love that. So then what would you say in the course of your career, the best advice you've ever gotten? I mean, you have so many.

It's a good question. Best advice I've ever gotten. I want to give you something really special and thoughtful. So let me think.

By the way, we have the same editor, so he knows exactly how to cut everything.

Brad?

Yeah.

I love. No, you can leave this in there. I like the reality of me thinking about something because I really want to honor the. It's a great question, and I don't just want to say something. It's like, I'd rather give you something that I really, really feel is the best advice I've ever heard. I remember sitting with one of my mentors once. He passed away from stage four brain cancer around three years ago. And losing him was tough because he was the first person I'd call when something good happened, and he'd be the person I want to share it with. And I remember years before my external online journey happened, before people were aware of my work, I was sitting with him and I said to him, I said, I have so many ideas and I have so many things I want to do, and I don't know where to start. And I think this is a common thing that I hear a lot of people say to me today, where it's like, I could start a company, I could start this. I want to write a book, I want to do a podcast, I want to do social media, whatever it is that people have so many ideas. But it's like, where do I start, right? And he said to me, jay, he said. He said, start everything. He said, open every door. And he said, doors will naturally start to close or some won't open. Just keep walking through the ones that stay open. And if I look at the last five years of my life, seven years of my life that I've been doing this online, externally, I can honestly say that that's all I've done. I've knocked on every door. Some have opened, some haven't, and some have opened and then later closed, and I've just kept walking through the ones that stay open. And the reason why I think it's the best advice I ever received is we often paralyze ourselves with procrastination of choice of what do I do? Where do I start? What's the perfect route? What's the perfect path? What's the right thing for me to do? And it's like, you have no idea. You can only try everything and see what feels right and see what stays open. But it's not up to you to figure it out in your head what your purpose is. I think a lot of us are trying to figure out our passion, our purpose, our career path, our hobbies, everything in our head. And it's like, you're not going to figure out in your head. You're going to see it unfold in front of you. And so I'd say that was the best advice I ever heard.

That is actually beautiful, amazing advice. And I think it's always inspiring. I mean, you know, in the back of your head that every person they you look up to or every person that's out there that seems very successful, you know, in the back of your head, oh, they must have failed once or twice, but you forget.

Yeah.

So it's interesting whenever. When I hear you speak and then you mention, oh, a lot of doors have closed, and then I just keep going for the ones that open. You're like, right, of course. I forget that for a second.

Yeah. And that place, to everyone, I can honestly say, with every person I know, that is massively successful, and every person that I've worked with or coached or had on the podcast or whatever, it May be every single one of those people will say that they still have doors closed on them. So what I speak of myself, there are people who are far more prolific in their fields that still go through the same thing. And I think that that actually is the reminder. Like, to me, I love studying people's lives that I love, and I encourage everyone who admires anyone. Don't just watch that person's TV show and movie. Don't just listen to their music. Study their life. Right? Study their life. Actually look at how they live. So, for me, I grew up studying Steve Jobs, his life, because I was a big fan of Steve Jobs. And if you look at the amount of failure that guy has had is insane. Like, he got kicked out of his own company. Imagine building Apple and being kicked out of the company you build. I don't think there's a bigger failure than that or a bigger rejection than that. Then he went and built Pixar and then went back to Apple. Like, it's. It's an incredible story. And I think when you uncover that, you go, oh, well, if that happened to Steve Jobs, then it's okay if it happens to me. Right? And you get used to it.

I love that. Yeah, I love that. You forget, especially with social media now, a lot of times people just focus on everyone's highlight reels and they forget all the failures because no one's really gonna sit there like, hey, guys, today really sucks.

I'm too fresh.

I haven't showered in four days. Anyway, buy my book. Like, you're not gonna. You know, it's hard to always be that open.

Yeah. And also, I think, like. Like, stop just following people on Instagram. Stop just watching people's TV shows. Stop just watching people's movies and listening to people's music. Study the lives of the people you love and admire. Study their lives, and that will inform your life's path so much more genuinely and authentically. Instead of just watching and following people, let's start understanding them so that we can follow in their footsteps in our own way, in our own lives.

I like that. That's part of taking a chance on your own life versus just living through someone else's life.

Exactly.

I really like that. Okay, so then what's one advice that you've gone over the course of your career that you wish you would have listened to earlier?

Oh, great questions. All right. And I'm not pronouncing your name right. Violeta. Right?

Yeah, Violeta. Violet.

Violetta. Yeah. No, no, no. I like saying it. Right? Like, I Said, all I remember from my Russian class is.

That'S so good.

I remember. This is really embarrassing, but I was 15 years old, so I was 15 years old when we studied Russian in school. We learned how to speak and write. I could speak and write fluently for that year. And we went to Russia on a school trip. So I went to St. Petersburg in Moscow.

I'm from St. Petersburg.

No way. It's beautiful. Like, I loved. I literally fell in love with Russia when I visited.

I always say thank you, and people tell me where I'm from as beautiful as if, like, created it. I'm like, thank you so much. No, but it's your home.

It's your home. I get that. And, and this is the embarrassing part. I used to think I was really cool when I was 15 and, and walk around telling young girls that I saw that they were really beautiful in Russian and I thought they'd find me cute. But then I realized that the language I was using was more telling them that they look like a beautiful building. Like, it's more like it's the language. So I, I. You can translate this for me and say, if I'm saying it, I still remember. It's that strong. It's toy ochin cresivoy. Am I saying that? What am I actually saying?

No, you're saying it, but you're saying it to a boy, right?

Oh, wow, There we go. Even better. There we go. That's what I'm saying wrong.

You're saying it to a boy.

How do you actually say that?

And you said, yeah, that's like, you're either saying it to a boy or saying it to an object.

That's amazing. All right. Anyway, there's my embarrassing story from 50.

Do you still write in Russian?

No, I can't. I can't. I wish I could. I didn't have. Again, it comes down to any skill in the world. I didn't have Russian. Like, I didn't have any friends that spoke the language. I didn't, you know? But anyway, I digress. Your question was not, tell me embarrassing stories about yourself.

Actually, big secret. I can't write or read in Russian, but people always forget that. So they'll write to me, Listeners and things like that. Write to me in Russian, and then I ask my mom what it means, and then I respond to them in Russian. And my mom actually has been writing it for me because some people don't actually know that I can't read and write.

Amazing.

It's embarrassing.

No, no, I get that. I Get that.

Sorry, your question was what advice that.

I wish I practiced sooner.

Yeah.

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I like that. I think that is really good advice. We do forget to slow down. And, I mean, I think even when I'm asking you a question and you take a second to think it through, the atmosphere in the room, change it. Suddenly I slow down and then I wait for you to speak. So I just. It is interesting how slowing down in general is really good.

Yeah. And I think we think slowing down means achieving less.

Yeah.

And I don't think that's true. I think slowing down can actually make you more impactful if you look at some of the best. I'm a big fan of rap and hip hop music, or I was growing up, at least. Like, Kendrick Lamar takes like two to three years to create an album. Like, he slowed down.

Right.

But every time it comes out, everyone's really excited and they're pumped and the album's always dope. And everyone's like, wow, that's art. Or that's a masterpiece. And so not everyone's going to be okay with waiting three years for an album, but if that's what you're trying to create, then that's what it's going to take.

Yeah, I like that. And I think it's really important for anyone out there is the slowing down. And then I think also just that memory of the fact you kind of brush with it in the beginning about how, in a way, if someone's giving you advice and somebody you want to hear, it's. You may just be in the wrong room. I think a lot of people stop too fast. You know, they're just. Instead of slowing down, just being like, okay. And I've Done. I've done stand up a while back of one of my shows, and I kind of explained that, you know, if today no one laughed at my jokes, I'm not going to just give up. It just means I was in the wrong room, and I'm just going to keep going to the. Until I find the right people in the right room.

Yeah.

So. But I like that because I have to do with all the doors they close on you and open and you slowing down and finding correct team. So very Monk. I'm very bad at slowing down.

So am I. So am I. I think it's. It's the pace of the world we live in, right?

Yeah.

I think even you look at. Let's look at the creator world. Like you look at someone like Mr. Beast who shifted to being like, I'm only going to create a video every month. Most YouTubers up until now thought they had to create a YouTube video every day.

Right?

And here's, you know, the biggest guy on YouTube of all time going, I'm gonna create one video a month, and it's gonna be the best video ever.

Right.

But I'm gonna make one video a month or maybe two videos a month. But it was different because we grew up. Like, up until the last couple of years, YouTubers were making videos every day.

Well, it's always someone that starts it. Logan started it. Logan.

And he did a great job with it, too, when he did that.

And then he was over it. But then because he starts something, then everyone else thinks they have to catch up. That's. That's a comparison part.

Exactly.

I just have to keep up. I have to keep up. If people are going to forget about me versus I'm here to create art, and I need to slow down, and.

It may work for that person. Like, there are certain people who can make incredible things every day. I'm not saying there aren't people. I mean, there's TV shows, there's radio shows that make something amazing every day. I think it's about figuring out what you want to make and not comparing it. So if you know what you want to make, you're not trying to keep up to someone else's pace. And I think we're trying to keep up with someone else's speed rather than setting our own pace.

What's the biggest lie you've ever told yourself?

Oh, oh, this could go one of two ways. One is that I'm not good enough, and the other one is, I am good enough, and I'll explain. So when you tell Yourself, the lie, I'm not good enough. A lot of us get into that self sabotage, critical, judgmental behavior. We just talked about comparison, complaining and criticizing. Often we complain, compare, and criticize more about ourselves than we do anyone else. So we look in the mirror. I hate the way I look. We have a meeting with someone, oh, they're much smarter than I am. We are applying for a job or looking for an opportunity, and we think, I'm not good enough. And we lie to ourselves because we'd rather not put ourselves in the risky position of trying and accept failure before someone else rejects us. We often feel it's better to reject ourselves than for someone to reject us. And then that replays in our minds and we keep saying, I'm not good enough. And it's a lie, because you don't know. And when you try something, when you give it a go, when you take an opportunity, you often realize you're better at things than you imagined. You're better at things than you ever thought you could be because you tried. And I've had personal experience of that where, you know, I was a really shy kid growing up, and my parents forced me to go to public speaking school when I was 11 years old. And they forced me to go because they were scared that I wouldn't be confident as a speaker. And they were right, because before then, I used to get. When I was seven years old, I remember going on stage and the audience thought I was not great as a performer, as a speaker.

I mean. You were seven?

Yeah.

I mean, you think you would do better?

Well, let me tell you, Let me tell you what happened. Let me tell you the story about what happened. I was asked to speak at a school assembly. And I was asked to speak and sing from my culture, so from the Indian culture. And I was dressed in traditional Indian clothes. Now growing up, I was overweight and I was wearing these clothes and I didn't look so great in them, especially in front of my. The kids at my school. So I walked out and all the kids in the school started laughing. I then started singing. I do not have a good singing voice. I started singing this prayer in my, my language and from where my parents are from. And everyone started laughing more.

Jesus.

And then I started crying because I felt so embarrassed on stage, on stage. And then I forgot the words and I looked down and my tears had smudged the words, so I completely lost track. And then everyone's completely lost it. And then my teacher has to come on stage, put her arm around me, and walk me off, which is even more embarrassing as a seven year old. And so that was my first experience of public speaking. And so my parents really wanted me to go to public speaking school. But the point is I was nervous to go, but if I never went, I'd never be able to do what I do today. So you're not going to know until you go, right? That's one side. The other lie of why I am good enough is a lie I've told myself is I've applied for jobs that I don't have the qualifications for, I've had. And not. I've never lied about who I am, but I've applied for things that I'm not good enough for. I've reached out to try and make things possible. Because you have to, right? You're not just going to sit there and be like, I'm going to wait till I have it all together. And so I think it's important for people to recognize both of those ways where sometimes you don't have to pretend you're good enough. You have to be honest and say, hey, I'm not good enough. But I love this opportunity. And I send messages like that all the time. I always send people a message saying, hey, I know you could do something way bigger than this, but this is what my idea is. And I'm okay with that.

That actually reminds me when I was at university and we had some exam that I didn't study for and everyone else was studying right before the test and they're like, v, are you going to study? And I go, no, because you know why I have God. And I don't know why I said that in that moment. I said, I'll just say a little prayer and I'm going to say, score. I'm going to get an A. I was overly confident. And then I did my little prayer. Hey, God, if you're listening, this is your favorite Jew. Like, please give me an A. And everyone else studied. I took the test. Guess what happened? I failed. So I was like, okay, so that was a little too confident.

So that. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So, yeah, that's a wonderful. I mean, obviously I'm not saying it's great that you got bullied when you were seven, but what a wonderful experience that you were able to take something like that and now your whole career is speaking. Yeah, I always love hearing stories like that that somebody decided instead of caring about what everyone else thinks, you're like, okay, you know what? Watch me. And then you're like the Top motivational speaker.

Yeah. Not even, you know, like, not even to. I genuinely mean this again, like, I never do things with the intention of revenge or showing someone what I can do because that means I'm still giving them the power and saying that how they feel about me is still more important than how I feel about myself.

I like that. Can you kind of elaborate before we dive into your book right now? Can you kind of elaborate really quick about why it's so important to forgive people just in your heart, not in general, where you have to be around them again, but in your heart because it eats you up.

So, yeah, when you carry around unforgiveness in your heart, it's so heavy that it blocks energy from the things you really care about and want to do. Whereas when you choose to forgive, you're almost removing this massive boulder that's weighing on your heart, which then frees you up to love others and receive more love. And so if your hand is holding tightly onto something, there's no space to hold on to anything else. And if we're tightly holding on to revenge and bitterness and negativity towards someone, then there's no open palm for receiving love and connection and compassion from someone else. And so to me, forgiveness is not about forgetting and letting go of what the other person did or not setting boundaries. Forgiveness is saying, I want to make space for more love, not less love. Effy.

I like that. And. But do you think that some people, they may not realize this? Because I think I read this research a long time ago. Some speaker said this about how they think they don't want to be bitter. They think they don't want to be resentful or feel hate, but that's all they know. And sometimes it's scary to. If every day I wake up and I'm miserable, unhappy with my life or my purpose now just to hate someone else, it's scary then to wake up the following day and be like, you know what? Today I choose love. Because then you're like, what am I going to do with my life now if I. So much happiness to give instead of hating someone all day.

Yeah. I forget what book it is and I can't remember it. But there's a concept that talks about how having a common enemy is often a way to unite people.

Yeah, yeah.

And even unite with ourselves. And so that's what you're referring to. It's why so many.

It's a marketing strategy.

Yeah. Religions, philosophies, brands have a common evil so that we can get Excited about defeating someone and beating someone. And I agree. It's not like waking up. Exactly. It's not waking up and saying, I choose love, and that doesn't exist anymore. It's just saying I'm not living to prove or disprove anyone else, because the only approval that matters is my own.

Yeah.

So you're just saying I don't want to live to approve or disprove anyone else. I only want to live for my own approval. It's that decision. As opposed to choosing love, do you.

Kind of have some example, an idea of how you. Or a lesson in your time as a monk or after it, where something kind of shaped your perspective on love and relationships?

I'd say the biggest one was this idea that monks didn't wait to receive love. They chose to express love or kindness or compassion or joy in every meeting. So what I found is that monks lived a life of love not because people love them, but because they loved others. And I think we think about love as being something you get and receive and people give to you, as opposed to, I can feel love just by being nice and kind to someone else. And when I choose to do that, I am feeling love. And I think also the idea that in the monastery, I felt a lot of love from my teachers, I felt a lot of love from my peers, I felt a lot of love from the people we served. And I think modern society has created romantic love and put romantic love on a pedestal. So we think that if I have romantic love, then my life is perfect, and if I don't have romantic love, then I'm not worthy. And as a monk, you don't have romantic love. But I felt so much love, which made me realize that we shouldn't devalue other forms of love. Love for your parents, love for your children, love for your friends, love for your family. How can we say that there's a hierarchy of love? But I think subconsciously we do. I think somewhere in our hearts, we believe that the epitome of love is between two people who romantically love each other.

Right.

But I would disagree with that. I'd say that there are lots of different types of love, and none of them should be compared to the other.

I like that because in your book Eight Rules of Love, there's two of the rules. One of them, you discuss service, what you can do for others. Another one, you discuss unconditional love, which we're gonna dive into. Because for me, it's hard to see how unconditional love is possible. I think People want that. But me personally, from my own experience, when it comes to unconditional love is that love comes. Growing up, it felt like love comes with terms and conditions, and if I don't fulfill a certain term or people get everything they need from me, they leave. So is. Do you think unconditional love is actually realistic? I think of course you do.

Obviously, I think unconditional love is real. I just don't know if it's realistic for two people in a romantic relationship as quickly as people want it to be.

Okay, it's quickly. Yeah, I like that.

So I think that unconditional love is a tall order, and reciprocal love is more realistic. What you just described is transactional love. And below that is no love. So if you look at love as layers, when you meet someone new, you don't love them and they don't love you.

You don't know that. I'm kidding.

Yeah. Yeah. You don't know. What you just talked about is what I would call transactional love, where it's like, you give me what I want, I give you what you want, and then we're done with each other. Right. And that's. A lot of people experience that today. Sadly, a lot of people that I've been speaking to recently are experiencing that sense of immature. People who just want to use someone take. And they're in their own pain, but that doesn't give them an excuse to do that. Higher than that is reciprocal love. That means I do nice things for you, you do nice things for me, and we don't count, but we love each other. And then the highest is unconditional love, where I'm ready to do anything for you and I don't even care whether you don't do anything for me.

That's a parent love, and that's.

Yeah, exactly. And parent love. Right? Is that what you said? Yeah. Like, that's like how parents love their kids, for sure. And that's the kind of love that exists realistically with unconditional love. But romantic love has to go through these levels because you can't just skip to unconditional love. We think if you put the ring on the finger or you got married or you moved in, you automatically move into unconditional love. And that's just not true. And so I would want people to just pace themselves better. Don't fall in love too fast, because that's why it's called falling in love, because you're moving so fast that you can't even walk right. You're just falling over yourself. And I think if we move slower, maybe we could walk in love a bit longer and then maybe learn to run.

Yeah. So you can grow in love.

Exactly. That's the goal. Yeah.

Okay, so that unconditional love was your number four rule. But if you kind of go backwards really quick, because many of us grow feeling unloved or we feel like we don't actually understand what love is, many of us still don't know the definition of love because we think it's toxic or based on whatever our parents were. So in your first rule, it's in kind of the whole theme of. Around your book. It's the idea that love is not just an emotion, but a skill. And I like that because a skill gives me hope that I can. You know, the more you do a skill, the more you get to learn how to be better. So how can we kind of shift our mindset to see love in that way? And then what are some practical exercises we can do to develop our ability to love as a skill?

I love that. That shows me how thoughtfully you've read the book. Because that's such a nuanced point. Like, that's such a subtle point. But it's. It's so important because. So I love what you said, and you already took the words out my mouth, that love is a skill and a practice, which means you can learn to love, which means other people can learn to love, and which means you can build it as a foundation. If love is just a feeling or an emotion, then you're always trying to chase it and find it, and you don't know what it looks like. So here's a habit. Here's a couple of habits. Every day, find something you love about your body. And it could be. Often when people think of that, they think, I have to think of something aesthetic. And I'm like, go beyond. Think about your organs. Like, your heart is just working away every day with no love. When was the last time you showed love to your beating heart? And you think about how much love you think you give to others, and they don't give you it in return. That's your heart. Your heart is giving love to you every single day by keeping you alive. Yet we rarely think of our heart. Think about how easy it is to forget about the thing that keeps you beating, breathing, and alive.

Right?

Like, we just forget about it, and that translates into our relationships as well. And so the first thing is every day or every week, find one thing you love about your body, one thing you love about your Mind. And one thing you love about your heart. If you can start that practice, you are learning to build self love. That's a habit for self love. I'm not telling you to say it out loud. I'm not telling you to say it in the mirror. I'm just saying, can you acknowledge that there's so much good here and there's so much worthy of love. Now a habit to love someone else a great way is saying, I'm going to learn when this person needs attention and when they need space. I'm going to do a little experiment to say, do I actually know this person well enough to know whether they need space? Attention, awareness. That's love. And that's a habit and a skill. I can tell. And me and my wife do this with each other all the time. Like, I'm always trying to learn, does my wife need me to be a fixer or does she need me to be a listener? That's love. That's a skill. That's why love is a skill. I can learn to know that. And if I'm learning, I can ask her, do you want me to be a listener right now or do you want me to be a fixer? I love that, just asking that question. It's not complicated. And she could say, jay, I just want you to be a listener tonight, or, I need you to fix this for me right now. And yesterday she came up to me and she was like, I really need to talk to you about something. I want to figure this out. And I was like, great. So we're in fixer mode. Right? And then that helps her love you back. And the third thing is tell people how you want to be loved. I think so often we're scared because we think if we tell someone how to love us, it's a weakness. But actually, if you tell someone, this is how I feel loved. Now they get to choose whether they want to love you in that way or not.

Right.

Rather than expecting them to read your mind and figure who out who you are, tell them, share with them.

Right. Because you end up setting them up for failure. Oh, they don't care. And so on.

Yeah. And some people just. Most people have just not been trained to, like, notice these things. Like, people just not can't read between the lines.

Well, normally we assume people love the way we love.

Yes.

We don't realize there's so many different love languages. I mean, I grew up, up half of my life thinking my dad didn't love me. And my dad every day did his best to show me that he loved me by giving me something his father didn't give him, which was a roof over my head and supporting me financially. But I never got hugged by him when I never heard the words that he loved me. So I'm like, what does my dad hate me? When I got older, I realized that's all he knew. Like, he doesn't know how to show love. He did his best.

Yeah.

And we connected again. And I feel so always thankful that I was able to learn all these different love languages. I get got to learn and give my father and I another chance.

And I think that.

I think so many people in this life don't give other people a chance, and they just assume, oh, that person doesn't care about me.

That's so beautiful. That's an amazing reflection. I really appreciate. No, I genuinely do. That's. That's so great. Because, yeah, we want to be loved the way we give love. And we don't realize there are so many beautiful ways to show love to someone and receive love. And actually, if you tell someone, I only want to be loved this way, you miss out on the way they can love you too.

Aw, I like that a lot. I love that a lot. Okay, your third rule in your book, you wrote that it's about love is antidote to fear. And we earlier discussed fear. Can you kind of discuss how fear can really hold us back from experiencing a connection?

Fear is just an unformed boundary. So fear is a boundary in the making, but it isn't yet a boundary, and that's why it's still a fear. And so what we have to do is we have to take our fears and we have to turn them into principles, agreements, and boundaries. So if I have a fear that someone may leave me, instead of keeping it that way, I'm going to set a boundary saying, I'm not going to get too close too quick without the person showing me they're ready for commitment. Right. I'm not just going to make up in my head and pretend what I think this relationship should be. So I'm going to change my fear into a principle I can live. Right. As opposed to just saying, I'm just going to constantly be scared of this. For example, if I'm. If I'm scared that someone doesn't love me, I'm going to set an agreement with my partner to say, every week we do this, this, and this, because it makes us feel close together. And does that person want to commit to that? If they do, great, we now have an Agreement, which means we don't have to hold on to that fear. So we need to change our fears into boundaries, agreements, and commitments to each other so that both people are not walking around with insecurities.

Right, because people get scared to even communicate in that way. But at least then you would know if your partner is willing to go the extra mile with you or not. Versus just living in fear.

Exactly. Like I remember when I first met my wife, I was scared. I had a fear that the amount I care about my purpose could scare someone away. So that was my fear. My personal fear was, I am so committed to the life I want to create and build that it may scare someone away. So I said that to my wife when we were dating. I said to her, I said, my purpose is going to come first to me forever because I love it. It's my life and soul to help people. Is that okay with you? Is that something you're comfortable with? And then we looked at what that looks like on a practical level. And luckily I have a wife who understands that about me. And she said the same thing to me. She said, my number one priority is my family. And we had that open and honest conversation. And because of that, there hasn't been this weird feeling when I jump on a plane to do something that's my purpose. She's not going to me. Well, why are you going? Where are you going? And if she's saying, I need to be back with my family, I'm not there going, well, you've been there a lot this year. Like, because there's a respect and there's an understanding of that's what fuels you. So you can turn your fear into a conversation, a principle and a boundary and a commitment which frees you. Now, she could have said, no, Jay, I don't want you to live that way. And then we would have figured that path out and seen where that would have gone. But I think a lot of us are scared. And then what we don't realize is we end up living out our fears in the future.

Right? Yeah.

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Like literally, if you say, I'm just going to take a step back and just in case, if they want to leave me, then it won't be all in. And then because you're not all in, they're thinking, oh, the person's not interested.

Exactly, rather than you sharing it.

And then all your fears actually come true. I think a lot of the time that's what happens. Yes, I dated someone that kept getting scared that something was going to happen during our dating and then we would break up because of it and we in the end end up breaking up because of it.

Yeah, that's it, that's it.

Yeah.

Your fears become your future for sure.

I love how well you and your wife communicate. Like, I am honestly astonished by it. I mean everything that you're saying. There's so many things you're saying that my brain, I'm like, oh my God, I want to like, save it, Press save so I can remember. Such good advice for people out there who may not have the type of relationship that you have with your wife or with other partners or in general who are currently struggling with loneliness. And this book really helps, you know, to understand all the different types of love. What is your message to those that may be struggling with loneliness or heartbreak or lack of love in their lives?

Being alone is a great time to get to know yourself. Because when you get with someone else, you often start adopting their behaviors, their likes, their patterns. Nothing wrong with that. But if you don't know who you are in the first place, that's why so many people say, I lost myself in the relationship or I forgot who I was, but it's like you weren't really sure in the beginning. And so being alone after a heartbreak is such a great time to get awareness of who you are. And I think it's so important to go, well, what do I like and what do I not like? Like, what kind of life do I want to create and what kind of life do I want to build? What's important to me, what's a priority to me and what isn't? And when you start taking that interest in yourself, we most often we don't find ourselves interesting. That's why we want someone else in our life to make life interesting. But if you learn to become interested in yourself, I promise you life will become more interesting. And you like to take joy in your own company. And by the way, that applies even if you're in a relationship. Even if you're in a relationship. Spending time alone is so healthy for a sense of self esteem, for a sense of self awareness. And so this isn't just a skill that you have to practice when you're alone, it's a skill you have to practice when you're with someone. If you're constantly around someone, you are going to dissolve your identity into who they are and who you become in the relationship. And that's not bad per se, but it's not healthy for your own long term. That's why people have been married for three decades and one person says, I haven't achieved my goals, I don't know who I am. It's not because they didn't have a good relationship with that person. It's because you didn't have a good relationship with yourself. Often when people end up in breakups or divorce, it's not because they didn't have a great relationship. It's because they didn't have a good relationship with themselves. And they sacrificed or put aside parts of themselves thinking that that made the relationship better. Only years later to find, I wish I didn't do that. So I think those times are times to really get to know yourself. And the way you get to know yourself is doing things by yourself. Taking yourself out on dates, going out to dinner on your own, going out and finding the friends that you want to connect with, going and developing the habits and the disciplines and the routines that are fruitful for you. If you do that, you start to attract the right community around you as well.

I think a lot of people are afraid to take a look in the mirror or spend time with themselves because deep down they may not like who they are. And I think that's a lot of people's biggest fear, that what if I get to know myself and I don't like that person?

The best thing is you can change it and you're not that person. Like, you're not, you're not the person you Feel like right now you're something so much more powerful, beyond it, beneath it. And you can become anything you want to be like. You truly can. And I think we. If you do get to know yourself and you don't like yourself, I promise you another person will not solve that or Right. It just won't.

I like that. From your eight rules, what would you say has been over the course of your life, the hardest rule for you to follow?

I think the hardest one is always the rule that's win or lose together. So because your ego is a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly battle, and when your partner's being stubborn and you don't want to give in and you want to point them out or you want to trip them up or you want to call them out, we do that. And oftentimes I think that's what ruins relationships is our partner's trying and we want to act all hard to get. And then we try and then they're acting all hard to get, or we're trying to be nice, but they're not being sincerely nice. So we want to call that out. Like, I think we just call out our partners a lot in a way that we don't do to anyone else.

Right.

Like we, we pick their faults more, we pick out their insecurities more, we dig it, the more we know them better. So we know which buttons to push to get a reaction. And I think that's instead of just.

Saying, hey, when you're not around, it hurts my feelings totally.

We don't want it. We want to say it in a passive aggressive way.

Oh, you're with your friends tonight. Okay. I guess that's better for you than hang out with your wife.

Exactly, exactly. We want to say that rather than just saying, hey, this week should we plan which nights we're going to spend together?

Right.

It's the same thing. But. And I think that's why win or lose together, it's like, it's really interesting. I was thinking about this. We spend so much time trying to win someone over and then we want them to lose arguments. And it doesn't make any sense. Like, we spend all this time trying to win someone over to impress them, for them to love us, and then we want them to lose. And I wish we could just give ourselves and them more grace in relationships. Because if you win and they lose, you both lose. And if you lose and they win, you both lose. So you have two choices. You either win together or you lose together. But if you win and they lose, that's a Loss. Because you sleep in the same bed, you live in the same house, you wake up with that person. You're sharing energy now, and whether you like it or not, if you're trying to put them down or pick them apart, that is going to affect you every day. And you're setting yourself up. I don't want to live in a house where we hate each other or don't like each other or take shots at each other every day. I just don't want to live in that environment. Why would you put yourself through that? You might as well be alone.

Right? Right. Because sometimes you can focus so much on winning an argument and that that's how you lose versus we're arguing. But how can we win together by coming to an agreement?

We focus so much on winning an argument that we often lose the person because of it. And so often it's not about you losing the argument and them winning either. It's about saying, how do we win together because we're on the same team, Effy.

But how can you do that without accidentally giving too much of yourself? Because you know how everything you're saying is so peaceful and so wonderful, but then sometimes we forget that it takes two people to tango. You need your partner to be as understanding as yours. So what if every day I'm the one that's like, it's okay, don't worry about my feelings as long as we can win together?

That's the mistake. That's such a great question. And that's the mistake. I'm not saying you say my feelings don't matter. It doesn't matter. I'll give in. That's not what winning together looks like. Winning doesn't mean tolerance. Winning together doesn't mean, like, you're just tolerant of someone else's issues and things. It's creating agreements, commitments, and boundaries together. Us coming together and saying, okay, this is a weekly problem in this house, Right? How are we going to solve it? It's not me saying, you're the issue. You need to change this. You need to sort it out. It's saying, this is something we both disagree on. Right? How are we going to take care of it? I'll give a silly example. In my own house, the bed was never made. Right? The bed was never made. My wife wakes up earlier than me. So in her head, it was my job to make the bed. Right now, I wake up later, but I feel like I've got a million things to do. And so I'm thinking, well, she can take care of it. Later on. Now, if we never talk about it, this could be an issue that lasts for years. And all the studies show that most couples argue about the same things for long amounts of time. It's not that you have new fights. You have the same fights again and again. I'm taking a silly example just to help the situation. Now, the reason why I don't like doing the bed is because we have way too many cushions on that bed. I don't need bed pillows. I just need the pillow I sleep with and the duvet. She wants the decorative pillows on top. So we made an agreement and a commitment. We would limit the decorative pillows, and the last person to wake up would do the bed.

Oh.

And that agreement has solved that problem where five out of seven days, I'm the last person to get out of bed. And so I'll do it. I'm happy to do it. But we've also limited the amount of pillows so that I'm not having to, like, got it. Do all this decorative stuff that I'm not a huge fan of in the morning because it may not be, like, the right act for me. And so I've taken a very silly example. But the point is, that's what winning together looks like. Winning together doesn't look like her saying, oh, Jay, it's fine if you just want to.

And then she's growing resentment.

Exactly. Or it doesn't mean me saying, I'll do all this decorative stuff for you, honey, because I'm pretending you're growing resentment, but then I'm growing resentment. Why would we do that? Right. Like, it's not a compromise. It's trying to create a commitment and agreement together that we can both vibe with.

But it would have been funny if you're like, so now every morning I wake up at 4am yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to beat you. So you have to do it.

Yeah, I like that. It's a compromise. Okay. That is really good. You shared so many powerful lessons and insights in your book. Can you kind of share another lesson or piece of advice that you believe that has the power to truly transform someone's life beyond everything else? You already mentioned that I think could help anyone listening?

I think in love and relationships, we often ask the wrong questions.

I like that.

So we often ask questions like, are they the right person? Are they right for me? Is there someone else? And I think those questions have unlimited answers, and they're not the right questions because I don't think it's about whether someone's right for you. It's whether you both want to make it right. Like, there is no perfect person. There is no perfect partner. There's only the person that wants to make it work with you and the person you want to make it work with. And if someone doesn't want to make it work with you, it doesn't matter how perfect you think they are, it's not going to work. And we keep asking that question or we keep thinking when we break up with someone, but they were perfect. They were the one that was the person I wanted to be with. And that's real. Because the research shows in science that you're literally, when you break up with someone, you're detoxing from the relationship as if you're craving a drug. It's like detoxing from a drug. So you're craving that person, but you're craving the idea in your mind of what it looked like, not what it actually was. Because guess what? That person doesn't actually want to be there. And so I. The biggest advice I can give is stop living life in your head and how it looks and how you want it to look and start navigating the real world. Because I guarantee you, the real world has more beauty in its beauty and it has more signs in its reality. But the version you're living in your mind and your head is going to constantly keep perplexing you because you have a projector of your ideal life up here, and then you have the reality of your life down here. And they're never going to match. It's never going to match.

I like that about asking the wrong questions or just a thought. When you. When you keep telling yourself, but that person was perfect, if they were perfect for you, then they would want to be with you.

That's exactly the point. So they're not perfect. Yeah.

Yeah. I actually reminds me of a long time ago. My ex and I were together for eight years. And when we going through our one millionth breakup and I was sad about it and I was going through my love withdrawals, which are like a drug, heroin. And I kept remembering this one moment that we had the best time ever. And I was just giving my friend this advice because she's going through it right now. And I said, that day I had the best memory. We went to Malibu together, then we got massages together, and then we had dinner and we made love. It was the best day ever. And then finally I said, said, let's really go back. And I remember I was really thinking more logically now, and I went Back to that day. That was my best day of a relationship. And suddenly I got to see for what it was. When we're having lunch in Malibu, my boyfriend was on his phone, and he was like. And I was, like, smiling, so happy to be there with him. And you're just like, okay, are you almost done? Are you ready? Then we go get massages. He looks at me, he's like, you know, this was really expensive. Are you going to be thankful for this? And it's like all these little moments, which is fine. You know, I'm not in any way blaming him. I just mean we weren't a match. But it's the way I wanted to remember that day was as if we were perfect. It was beautiful. He was my person, when in reality, he. I don't think the guy even liked me, you know? Then dinner again on his phone. So it's not easy when you look at things realistically, but I think it is so helpful because I was so desperate to be loved that I didn't even notice that the person in front of me didn't love me.

Oh, that is so powerful. That is exactly it. We're so. You just. I'm going to repeat what you just said. We're so desperate to be loved that we often don't even realize that the person in front of us doesn't even love us. Like, you just said that. And that is so powerful, and it is so true that we're making up the story. And it's really interesting. The trick of the mind is when you're with someone, you pick at all the negatives. But when you break up with someone, all you do is remember the positives.

Yeah.

And our mind plays that trick on us. When you're with someone every day, you're like, oh, they're annoying and they're the worst, and they don't care about me. Me. And then when they break up, you're like, no, no, no. Because it turns into that craving. And so we have to remind ourselves of reality. Always focus on the facts if you want the truth. The truth is the facts of what was really happening. And if you look at the facts, chances are you don't want to be with that person.

Yeah. Or kind of what you said in the beginning with how when you're negative, our minds. We lie to ourselves. Our mind plays tricks on us. So if I have a completely wonderful relationship with you and then I fall into depression or. And I start lying to myself, thinking that I'm not worthy of love, I'm gonna Go back to our memories. I'm gonna remember. Suddenly you look at me weird or bad, I'm gonna think you don't love me. It's just. It's really interesting. Okay, so from your book 8 Rules of Love, what would you say? I mean, there's so many great pieces of advice, but what would you say? One of the best piece of advice that people can take from your book?

I think I would say overall, I think we've touched on some really beautiful points in the book. The biggest thing I'd say is the book's about every stage of love. How to find it, how to keep it, and how to let it go. And I think that I tried to write a book that was for everyone, at every stage of a relationship, almost like a map. And if someone wants to talk about and think about love in a more systematic, in a more scientific and in a more step by step way, then this book is great. If someone wants to talk about love in a more practical, real way, then this book is great for you. Because I'm not trying to talk about love with this ethereal concept or this fluffy woo woo thing. It's like I'm just laying it out as it is. And if someone wants to help going through a breakup, if someone wants help because they're just about to move in with someone, if someone wants to help figure out being alone. This book covers the best research, the best wisdom and the best ideas. Not just from me, but from. And this is what I keep reminding everyone when I'm putting a book together. I'm not just sharing things that I know that would be limited. I go out there and research and curate. So I find science, I find wisdom, I find real life stories, I interview people, I look at research and studies like it's. It's all curated to give you a really complete picture.

And I think one thing from this whole interview that I really liked when you're discussing you and your wife, is that it seems that you never stop learning about her. And I think that's one thing that people need to understand when it comes to love, that you're always, as long as you continue to be curious about your partner and how to grow, that's a successful partnership, right?

Love means to learn. Love means that I will. If you love something, it means you will never stop learning about it. When someone says, I love football or basketball, what does that mean? It means they're always learning about it. What happened this week?

Right?

What did the player do? That player got injured. This happened. That person Scored like it's. It's constant. Right. That's what love is. If you love your garden, you take care of it every day. If you love your home, you take care of every item every day. But with our partners, we say we love them, but we take care of them once a year.

Right.

And that doesn't make any sense. That's not love. That's ownership.

I like that analogy. And I like that comparison also then with yourself, because that's another thing. I love myself yesterday. How come I hate myself today?

Exactly.

Right?

Yeah.

One of the biggest things I struggle with is focusing on my progress over perfection, because I'm a perfectionist, which sets me up to failure, obviously. So how can we shift our mindset to embrace this philosophy? And what would you say, some practical steps we can take towards our goals with just, you know, not being a perfectionist?

Yeah, I just. I think we have to come. Come at it from the point of view that perfection doesn't exist. And I think the fact that we even think perfection exists is partly the problem, because it gives you something to work towards. But when you realize perfection doesn't exist. But there's a great book called Flow, and Flow State is all about when you feel like you're in the zone. So musicians or rappers or swimmers or singers, when they're, like, fully zoned in, like, if you watched Elvis or you watched Beyonce or you watch your favorite athlete, you can tell they're in the zone. That's called flow state. And they say flow state is when your challenge meets your skill. So when your skill and your challenge meet and are aligned, that's when you experience flow. But most of us experience one or the other. We experience our challenge above our skill. That's really depressing. It's disheartening. It makes us feel unworthy, or we experience our skill above our challenge, that makes us feel bored. It makes us feel lethargic. It makes us feel complacent. So what I say to people is, if you want to feel progress and not work on perfection, just focus on making your skill and your challenge align. And that will create such a powerful mode to help you focus on your skill and your challenge, not on perfection or progress. And it gives you something worthy to focus on. So that's what I always focus on. If I find something too easy, I'm like, like, what challenge do I need to take on? If I find something really hard, I'm like, what skill don't I have?

I like that.

So I'm not worried about perfection or Progress. I'm more worried about my skill and my challenge.

Okay. I have a question.

Yeah.

Is there something that I should be asking you that I haven't asked you?

No. I think you have asked brilliant questions. This has been such a fun conversation. I've answered so many questions that I've never been asked before. That's credit to you and your research and preparation. And I've had such a good time talking to you.

Oh, that's really nice.

Thank you.

Let's close this with your message of love and connection over the course of your career, over the course of this book. I think it's phenomenal and it's so powerful. So what advice, last advice do you have for those who may be struggling to cultivate meaningful connections in their lives? And what can they do to kind of deepen the connections they already have?

Connect with people who want to connect with you. I think most of our issues come when we're trying to connect with people who don't want to connect with us.

Right.

And we. I promise you, you may think you make effort with people who don't make effort with you. I promise you, there are people who make effort with you that you don't make effort with. I guarantee you there are people there that text you more than you text them. But you don't want to text with them. You want to text with someone else. And we live in this world where we are constantly chasing, pursuing, wanting to be around different people. But there are people who love you right now that you're disconnected from. And so connect with people who want to connect with you. Make an effort with people who make an effort with you. Sure. Make new efforts and try and connect with new people. But don't chase someone who's clearly showing you that they don't have space for you in their life. That doesn't make them a bad person. They just don't have time right now.

I like that. I agree. It's. It's kind of. It's your childhood trauma. You're chasing that love you didn't get as a child. And then it's talked about a long time ago where you spend your whole life thinking people don't love you. And then when you actually pay attention, you realize all these people around you do love you. They've been trying to show you love. And you said, you're like, why doesn't that person not love me?

Yes. That's often what our life is. That is exactly what it is. We're looking at the one person that we want love from as opposed to looking at the 10 people are showing us love.

How do we stop then and become aware? Because self awareness is not easy. How do you finally like, you know what? Enough. I don't want to chase this person anymore. They don't love me.

It will only happen the more you connect with the people who do love you. You'll naturally feel it. You'll feel less needy, you'll feel less fomo, you'll feel less disconnected. So it's not about. I think sometimes we think I have to disconnect first to connect somewhere else. It's the other way around. If I go and connect with the people I want to connect with will naturally disconnect from the people that I don't need.

Right. So you have to unlearn your old behavior in a way. Because if I keep thinking chasing someone, that's what love is, versus this person's sitting. If I'm so used to only chasing love, if you're sitting next to me and you're showing me love, I'm not going to understand. This is love that.

You've just hit the nail on the head. That's exactly it.

Well, it's all because of your book.

No, no, no. But that's exactly it that we have. That is so well said. We've conditioned ourselves to believe that love is chasing someone, which means even when the most loving person is sitting right next to us, or we've convinced ourselves that love means fixing someone and so we keep finding people to fix. Or we've convinced ourselves that love means saving someone. So we keep finding someone to save, and so we keep looking for someone to fix, someone to save, someone to chase, not realizing that love meant who's willing to sit with me right now and be present.

I agree. Because like I said in the past, when I grew up with my. My parents, we're still together. My mom showed me so much love. She's the most loving person I've ever met in my life. My dad didn't. And I chased that so much. When my mom would show me love, I thought, that's so weak. She cries so easily. She's overly loving. And my father forget what my birthday was. And I was like, that's my hero.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And we get trained. That's a perfect example.

Okay, so where can people find you?

You can find me in my new book, of course. It's a great place, which is 8rules oflove.com. you can find me on my podcast on purpose, which is across all platforms. And you can Find me on Instagram and TikTok @jshetty.

Okay, perfect. And then you're currently also your first ever world tour, Love Rules. So you guys can go to jshetytour.com for tickets and also be my description. And you can follow Jay on Instagram and subscribe to his podcast if you're already subscribed, which I will be surprised. His podcast is on purpose. If you have any questions, make sure to DM him and follow him. Is there anything else you want to add?

No, I just want to say thank you to you. Thank you so much for having such a genuine, thoughtful conversation and doing so much incredible preparation, asking such great questions. Such amazing. I was just saying to Violeta and for all of you that listen, Violeta is amazing host because when I said something today, I felt like she was internalizing it, reflecting it. And you could see her do what I hope everyone else is doing. And I think that makes you an amazing host to actually do that, live and in real time and apply it to your own life. And I think that's going to benefit your community. And obviously it is. That's why they follow you. But I just want everyone to know that that's a really special skill. So thank you so much for that.

Thank you so much for saying that.

Of course. I mean it.

Okay, bye. You guys have a beautiful day.

Thank you. I read something mind boggling recently. Most of the cells in our body completely renew themselves over our lifetimes. Some in just a few days. Make no bones about it. We're literally built for change, yet for some reason, we resist it. The next seven minutes are about you and how to change your attitude towards, well, change. I'm Jay Shetty. Welcome to the Daily J. Now let's get centered with three mindful breaths. Inhaling and exhaling, feeling the air flow in and feeling it flow out, bringing your attention to this moment and settling in to the here and now. There's an old story about a man who had been struggling with anxiety. He heard that meditation could support his mental and emotional health. So he went to a local mindfulness center and started taking classes on his own. He practiced diligently getting up every morning and meditating to begin the day. One night, a few weeks after starting his practice, the man stayed after class to talk with his teacher. I don't know what's wrong, he said. I'm doing everything you described. I'm sitting every day, I'm breathing, I'm noticing thoughts and trying to release them, but I just can't get My mind to calm down. It's not working. The teacher nodded and smiled. Its okay, she said. Keep meditating. It will change. The man was skeptical, but he kept meditating. A few months later, the man stayed after class again, this time with good news for his teacher. Everything's changed, just like you said. I'm finally feeling it all. The calm, the relaxation. I can easily clear my mind. It's wonderful. The teacher nodded and smiled. Keep meditating, she said. It will change. If only we could freeze those good feelings, those times in life when things are going our way. We had a great day at work or a fantastic date. We're feeling energized and healthy, and we think, finally it's all coming together. Then, when things shift as they inevitably do, we feel despondent, angry or frustrated. Today was a struggle at work. We're feeling misunderstood by our partner. We're feeling burned out and worn thin. In these moments, it feels like things will never change. But there is no feeling in the world that is eternal, and there is no feeling in the world that is eternally absent. Whatever you are experiencing, it will change on some level. We know this, and yet we either push back against it or we try and rush the change. But wishing your life would stop changing is like hoping that summer won't turn to autumn. And trying to rush change is like telling winter to hurry up and become spring. Just like in nature, life happens in seasons. And while it seems like some seasons are good and others are bad, attachment and aversion are really just different sides of the same coin. They can make change more difficult or painful than it needs to be. By labeling the shift as good or bad, we're judging the moment. We're resisting the flow of life. Instead, when we learn to accept change, we're able to embrace whatever life gives us. Then we'll be able to meet each moment with courage, clarity and composure. So today, good or bad, happy or sad, calm or stressed, just let it flow. And with that in mind, let's meditate and then reflect on your approach to change. So get comfortable wherever you are, giving yourself the permission to release a little tension. Closing your eyes if you feel like it will help you settle in. Feeling the natural rhythm of the breath in and out, observing how your body feels. You can rest your attention on any part of this moment and see if you can bring an attitude of acceptance to whatever you're experiencing. If something feels good, we're not trying to hold onto it. And if something feels challenging or uncomfortable, we're not trying to change it. We're just noticing what is and allowing ourselves to be okay with that. Breathing in and breathing out, stretching up and sinking down. And now let's open this up. Think about your relationship. Relationship with change. Are you familiar with attachment or aversion? Do you meet change with resistance? Can you let go of your grip on the good times? Relax your rush during tough times? I know this might be easier said than done, but remember, we're built for change. I'm so grateful to you for joining me today. I'll see you tomorrow.

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