3 Ways to Know if You are Being Codependent & Why We Should Practice Forgiveness

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Jetty, finally you're here.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you, Whitney. I'm grateful to be here.

The thing I really want to say start with to frame this conversation with you is that so much of what you talk about is about compassion and kindness and service. And on this podcast, all of you that know me know that I am in recovery for codependence. And a big part of codependence is you give too much of yourself, you become a doormat. You have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility. You martyr yourself for people you know. In codependence, we do the three M's. Martyr, micromanage, and mother. We rescue people. We self deprive, we give too much. Right. Codependence breeds resentment, perfectionism. We're the people that cook a full meal for our whole family but don't eat anything. And at the end, we're eating scraps over the kitchen sink. Right. So we are too nice sometimes. And so as I was reading your book, I found myself going, I hope in this conversation we can sort of talk about how to tell when your compassion and love and forgiveness and kindness, which you talk about so elegantly in your book, how we can develop the skill to delineate when it's codependence and when it's thinking like a monk.

I love that. I am totally with you on that. And that's such an important point because I think that's the difference that I think a lot of these words now have become buzzwords.

Yes.

And they fly around. And because of that, we have a really beginner's understanding of these deep essential qualities and values. And so we practice them at beginners level. And at that level, they're still based on wanting validation. They're still based on wanting to fit in. They're still based on wanting to be a part of being dependent or being codependent. They're not coming from a place of internal purification and greatness. So I'm totally with you on that. And I'm about motives.

It's really about motives. Like if you find yourself and if someone were to ask me, like, you know, because I love that you talk about service in this book. It's such a big part of. I think what is going to fix everything that's broken in our society is to be able to give. And I think people don't understand that giving is actually selfish. You know, I feel like I'm saying this in a way that's grosser, which is why my book probably wasn't the number one bestseller. And his was because I say I sound like a psychopath, which is like, when you give to others, it's selfish. You benefit. When you give, it's like everybody wins.

Absolutely.

It's like forgiveness. We forgive others not because they deserve. Deserve forgiveness, but because we deserve peace. Forgiveness is selfish, absolutely.

But the intention with which we give defines how deeply we feel it. So let's, let's take for example, two people who want to give in charity this year. One person wants to give it because they really believe that the kids deserve more food and better shelter and better support. The other person gives because they think it would be a good PR story or they think that it would look good for them to give.

Conservative activists.

Correct. There you go. So you got two people, let's say they both give a million dollars each. It's obvious who's going to feel more joy. Now, bear in mind, the kids benefit off the money either way, but the person giving only receives joy when they did it with the intention of actually serving. Yeah, and that's the missing link around giving. Because giving isn't just the act of time, money, it's the act of energy, presence and intention.

And also just taking your mind off yourself. I mean, in 12 step programs, the reason we do service, like honestly, is to take the focus off yourself. But because the more we. And it's tricky and I find myself struggling with the balance of this like self help, self, love and self, self, self, self, self, self, self. And when it becomes selfish and when it's selfless and you know, my brain, I just get so turned around in self care. All I do is think about myself and take care of myself and myself and it's just me, me, me, me, me, ultimately. And when does self care become selfish? And you do a really good job, I think for anyone that is confused, laying it out in a way that it's not like. And also for people that non Hollywood people, the people that are buying your book that we're actually, you know, talking to and not amongst, like who they're like, I have three jobs, all I do is serve.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I have four kids.

Exactly.

I actually need to do less service. I actually need to be less compassionate and take care of myself. Yeah, like finding that balance.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I loved about the monk path that I chose, that the morning was all about the self and then rest of the day was about service. And that gives you a really good blueprint around how that works in the sense of if you've not done something for yourself every day, if you've not taken your time to invest in yourself every day. And that isn't just a, you know, it comes so much from understanding yourself and understanding Yourself comes from the place of knowing yourself and getting to know yourself. And most of us spend so much time, codependency, trying to get to know someone else and what their needs are.

And anticipate their needs and then shape shift so that I can be what I think you want.

Totally evolve my 20s. Yeah, evolve and transmorph into this person. That will be the best for them. But what about if you did that for yourself to start with? And so most of us don't even know what we want to eat for dinner on a given day or, like, what our favorite movies are. We struggle. We sit there for, like, hours trying to figure out what to watch because we haven't really got to know ourselves. And so, to me, getting to know yourself is very basic. After you eat a meal, ask yourself, did I enjoy that? What did I like about it? Did I feel great? 24 hours after eating it, after watching a movie, what did I like about it? Why did I enjoy it? Those basic questions will give you a much deeper understanding of yourself.

God, it's so important, Jay. I can't believe, like, it took me so long. I just turned 38. You're September 6th. September 4th.

I know Beyonce and many others.

Virgo season, because I can't believe how much of my life I have spent doing things that I didn't even really want to do and that I didn't. I didn't even know. Someone would ask me to go for a hike, and I'd be like, sure. Like, I just thought friendships felt obligatory. I just felt they kind of felt like work. I just felt like you kind of had to agree with things that you didn't want to agree with. I just felt like you kind of had to laugh at jokes that weren't funny. Like, I just thought that's what friendship was. Like. I didn't know. Like, and reading this book, it really made me stop and go. Like, okay, I just hung out with that person. Did it fill me up? Do I feel depleted by that person? Do I. When they text me, do I get a pit in my stomach? Am I excited to respond? Or do I. Can I just respond whenever I want? Because I had all these friendships that were like, oh, God, she texted me. I need to text her back, or else she'll be mad that we're all about keeping score and that we're all about recreating my childhood circumstance of a borderline personality, narcissist mother. And, you know, and I think so few of us just stop and go, did I enjoy that meal yeah. Do I even like these movies? Do I even like this person that I'm hanging out with every day?

Yeah. And it all comes from confirmation bias. So we have this safety mechanism of it's more comfortable for the mind to feel we agree than create a moment of conflict. So the mind will continuously confirm and surround ourselves with people that confirm our biases, or we confirm theirs for the feeling of comfort. So we feel better when it's like, you tell me you like. Like that blood orange energy drink. So for me to feel like we fit in and we're gonna get along and we're gonna have a friendship for a long time, I would feel like if I confirm that bias, I've not tried it before, then I would feel like I fit in with you. And that's kind of how we were trained as kids.

We're wired to kind of. For harmony.

Correct. We're wired for harmony, but we look to harmonize over the wrong thing.

We harm. And then what happens? This isn't our case. But then you say you like this, and I'm like, great. And then I like. And now you just made a friend that you don't want.

Yeah, totally. And now every time I come here, you give me this drink.

Yes. And now you have to drink. And it's just sort. It's dishonest. And I think that that served us really well in tribal times when we needed safety from the tribes before alarm systems and locks on doors, because we needed safety from everyone. Right. But now these are these, like, obsolete tools that are, frankly, liabilities. Like, to me, I see an epidemic of just being too nice.

Yes.

Creating harmony with toxic people does not benefit you.

No. And over dishonest things, I think that's really important that you can connect. And also when you're looking at a thing or object or a like or a dislike to connect.

Yeah.

It's a pretty. It's pretty shallow ground to connect on because you may change your mind about that drink tomorrow. And now we're talking about drinks. But you may change your mind on a hobby, you may change your mind on an interest, you may change your mind on an activity. But usually people stay pretty grounded to values and qualities. And that's kind of. This confirmation bias has just created so many issues because we also go around and look for people who confirm our biases. So then we get into this bubble and this cloud of thinking that we can't break.

You're making me realize something. I think that is just. We all can look at. We are. We love black and white thinking, because humans love. We want an answer, even if it's the wrong answer.

Yeah. We just want so true.

So that we have some semblance of control. And I'm in this new relationship and I find myself wanting to. It's not a relationship. What am I saying? Black and white thinking it's somewhere in between. We're not dating and we're not together. I want so badly to feel safe. My inner child needs an answer so bad that I'm like, do you like to travel or do you not like to travel? And he'll be like, well, it depends on where I'm traveling. Well, what's the. You know? And so do you cheat or do you not cheat? And he's like, well, I've. It's different with me. None of these answers are going to apply to me. Cause this is a new situation. But it's made me realize how anxious, you know, preoccupied and how much I perseverate and how much my inner child panics when she doesn't have an answer.

Yes.

And I think if we just acknowledge, like you talk about in this book and are being so elegant about it now, if we just acknowledge our need for the polarity, we can then release it. It's just like even the awareness of knowing totally.

And we're all so much more proportions and percentages in different scenarios than we are one or the other. And it's the same thing I say to people when they're like, oh, Jay, you know, I don't know if my intention is completely pure or if it's material or spiritual. I'm like, we're both all of it. Like, it's all of it. Like, me too. Like we all are. Like, you're just. You're always trying to move in the right direction. The problem is we're addicted to a right decision. Right. And that's the problem. We're just trying to move into the right direction. We're just moving closer to that. And as long as you're moving closer in the right direction with someone, with yourself, with whatever it is that you're learning, don't give so much emphasis to the decision that the direct answer. Yeah, you know, the destination, all of that kind of. You're so right about what you just said about the child. And so many of us not having had clarity as young people about where we stood with our parents or where we stood with our partners. And now we demand what we did or didn't get from our parents in our relationships.

It's the unfinished Business. You know, it's sort of like it took me so long to stop recreating my childhood circumstances because I think we have this subconscious pull, obviously, to recreate the neurochemical cocktail that's comfortable for us. It's like when you see someone in a crazy relationship, you're like, how do they deal with that all day? They're in a cocoon. They are so comfortable doing it. That is all they know. It's like the devil you know? And I find myself recreating my childhood circumstances and, yes. Trying to basically just heal that wound. Heal that wound. Who's going to heal it? Who's going to fix it? And it's there. No one. You have to do it.

Yeah. There's a beautiful statement that you reminded me of by a monk named Thich Nhat Hanh. He's incredible. And he said that we choose familiar pain over unfamiliar pain every time we just repeat it, because that familiar pain gives us a feeling of safety, of security, of like, I know what pain I'm going to feel, and I'd rather keep repeating it than maybe venture out into this new land of unfamiliar pain, which I don't know what it feels like.

It's comfortable.

Yeah, it's comfortable.

It's like that pair of heels that always gives you a blister. I got the band aid. Like, it's amazing how. And I think that I'm glad that we're talking about this because we are so adaptable. Like, there's so many people that reach out to me, and they're like, is it too late for me to change? Is it too late for me to go to Al Anon meetings? Is it too late for me to stop being jealous and possessive and a love addict or a sex addict or whatever it is? And I'm like, dude, we think about how quickly you adjusted to those sandals that are giving you blisters. You were like, just put in a band aid, and I'm just going to take them off after an hour at the wedding. Like, we actually can adjust so quickly.

That is a great analogy. I'm going to. I'm going to share that now from now on. I love that one. I'm going to be like, yeah. Whitney and me were like, yeah, this was. That is a brilliant analogy. I love it.

I think you're going to talk about blisters.

I'm going to talk about blisters and heels.

Everyone's like, okay, I was checking on my shoes. When I wear heels, you'll really fit in in Hollywood. Okay. There's a Vedic personality test in your book. Will you tell me about it?

So when I lived as a monk and we studied the Vedas, I came across this incredible concept named Dharma. And Dharma is very difficult to translate into English. But when you do it, the closest things are eternal purpose and inherent nature or your natural inclination. And those are things. It's almost like, well, what is your natural, most effortless, flow filled state that you can live by that you feel fulfilled in? Right. And so when you break that down, you get Dharma basically equates to an equation which is passion plus strengths plus compassion. What is at the center of all of that? That is Dharma. And so the personality test that I give is to help people. And I've loved. So, first of all, there is no personality test or astrological chart that's going to give you the answer that you need. But they're good indicators and signals.

You're trying to say astrology is not a science, Jay.

It is a science.

Blasphemy.

But I'm not sure how many people can do it properly. But this personality test was put in there to help people get closer to the answer. And that's what I think all of these tools do. It's just about moving you in the right direction.

But you're making me realize, like, I want to do a couple of these.

Yeah, let's do it.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone given you the Vedic personality test?

I've done it on my own, but publicly. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, great. Oh, let's do it. Oh, great. Oh, great. Yeah, I love that.

I just love this book because it's like, it's real tools. I'm sorry, there's a lot of, like, buy a crystal water bottle and your life will get better. Like what? Charcoal toothpaste and you'll find your soulmate. Like, this is actual, like, how to rewire your brain. How to get to know yourself better with actual tools instead of just, like, random quotes that are always attributed to Oscar Wilde, even though he didn't say half that and we know it. Okay, you're going to answer these questions as who you believe you are at the core beyond what friends, family, or society have made you choose which of the following sounds. And I want you guys to follow along and take this quiz with us.

I like it.

Which of the following sounds most like what you're about. Values and wisdom, integrity and perfection. Work hard, play hard, or stability and balance.

Yeah. So, very important question. I'm going to add a caveat to help Everyone out as well. Seeing as this is the first time everyone's doing it publicly.

Everyone's follow along, get your pen and paper.

Is. Is. You're not trying to answer it as what your job's made you. You're not trying to answer as what you've become because of something. Like sometimes we become something because we had to become it to be more successful. You want to answer it at your core and the closer you get, and that's hard. I get that. That's, that's not easy to do. But the more you keep asking yourself the question, sometimes they say to this, like the first thing you think of is you. That's actually not true. It's, it's actually more stillness, silence and solitude and space to actually slow down a bit and go, well, what am I really? And it's also not your ideal self. So that's the other mistake. See extremes again. We oscillate between our society self and our ideal self. So then people answer it as like, oh yeah, that's the one I want to be. So let's be real. Your best days start the night before. Hatch believes small, intentional rituals at bedtime can completely change how you show up in life. Here's the thing. Self care doesn't start with doing more. It starts with resting. Better sleep is the foundation of emotional, mental and spiritual well being. That's why Hatch created Hatch Restore, a smart sleep clock designed to help you reclaim those moments around bedtime. It's all about removing distractions and creating calming routines. Think gentle audio, science backed sleep sounds and a sunrise wake up that makes mornings feel good. So if you're ready to unwind at night and wake up refreshed, head to Hatch Co and start your ritual today. When you have to go pick up meds, it can really dig into your downtime because you have to wait in traffic, wait to find parking, and then stand there waiting in the pharmacy line. Amazon Pharmacy delivers meds right to your door fast without ever having to get up and do anything. Your patience and your feet will thank you. Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy, healthcare just got less painful. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Every January, we hear the same message. New year, new you. But the older I get, the more I realize maybe the new year doesn't need a new you. Maybe it just needs a less burdened you. For me, one of the things I've been learning to let go of is pressure. The pressure to show up perfectly for everyone all the time. And the moment I started releasing that pressure, even little by little. It opened up space to actually understand what was going on beneath the surface. We all have blind spots, and sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes to help you see what's been draining you or where you could give yourself a little more compassion and clarity. BetterHelp has quality therapists who follow a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US and honestly, getting started is pretty straightforward. You answer a few quick questions about what you need and they handle the matching for you. They've been doing this for over 12 years, so they usually get the match right the first time. And if the first match doesn't feel like the best fit, you can switch anytime. Through their tailored suggestions, they've supported over 5 million people and work with more than 30,000 therapists. Live sessions average a 4.9 out of 5 rating from more than 1.7 million reviews, which says a lot. So if you're heading into the new year wanting to feel a little lighter and understand yourself a bit more, therapy can be a great place to start. Not to become a completely new version of you, but to feel more grounded in who you already are. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com Jaystop3 that's better. H E L P.com Jaystop3 it's not that either.

As I'm looking at this.

Woo.

I was like, well, this is what my dad would have wanted. My dad would have wanted work hard, play hard. And I was going to pick work hard, play hard. It should be work hard, cry hard.

That's a good one.

But I think I'm values and wisdom.

Yeah. And so I am too.

Oh, this is a good one. What role do you play in your friends circle and family? A I am comfortable dealing with conflict and helping people find middle ground. My role is the mediator. B I make sure everything and everyone is taken care of. My role is the protector. I feel like that might be me. I have. I help my family understand work ethic, hustle and the value of having resources. My role is material support. I think I'm that now hit my Venmo. D I focus on nurturing and wanting a healthy and content family. My role is emotional so I'll give it again.

Another another side note for everyone who's watching and listening. You probably do all four of these.

I was gonna say I'm so glad we're doing this together because I've picked five different ones and now that you're here.

Yeah we can talk about it. That's the whole point. So. So you're gonna feel. And especially when you read these, you're always going to feel like you're everything. And the reason for that is we've never really spent the time to think about who we really are.

And also, I shapeshift and based on who I'm with and who people want me to be.

Correct. And so you want to pull back again and go, I am all four, but in which order am I right? So you want to break it down and be like, well, which one do I prioritize? The first. So I'll give an example. It's almost like if you were put into a situation where you had to make a choice, which one do you say? This is the first thing I think about. Right. This is the first thing I think about when it comes to my family. So if you heard. If someone called you up and said, I want to tell you something about your family, which is the first thing that you think of that comes to your mind?

Would you mediate? Would you protect?

Would you.

Material support or emotional support?

Correct. Like, which one do you feel drawn to play as a role?

First and first.

Correct. First and most. Because you are all of them.

We all are, I think, protector.

Right.

I'm. I'm, like, vicious about that.

I'm the mediator.

Really?

Yeah. I'm the mediator. I have been since I was a kid.

You're Switzerland. You're neutral. Is that it? Like, you're kind of.

No, I wouldn't say I'm neutral. I would say that I'm. Yeah, maybe. I guess that's a definition of nonjudgmental. Yeah.

The one that can see all sides.

I try to. Yeah. I've always been that way. And that really annoys my family because people in my family will be like, well, why don't you see it from my side more than you see it from there?

Oh, you must be a nightmare. I am.

Let's not have a monk. Terrible to have a monk. Terrible to have a monk in the family.

There's no way you can ever be monk.

Yeah.

There's no way you can win a fight with a monk. What is most important to you in a partner number? A, literacy. A, honest and smart. B, strong presence and power. C, fun and dynamic. D, reliable and respectful.

E, all of the above. No, that's not good credit. Yeah, let's not. Neither of them are on that again. You want all four?

Yes, it's.

But again. And therefore, a lot of relationships come down into two areas where we get.

To the polygamy part of Jay's philosophy. That's.

That's chapter 13. Mormonism didn't make the book. That's important because the two sides of that are. In a relationship, you have priorities and preferences. Right. There are things that you will prioritize that you really want in someone, and then they have to be preferences where you're like, that's a bonus. I like that. But it's not all going to be there.

Would be nice.

Yeah, it would be nice. Exactly.

Would be nice. Not essential. I wanted to say a honest and smart.

Y.

And that is super important to me, but strong presence and power. I feel. I. I'm embarrassed to admit it, and I'm ashamed, but I do lose attraction to people if they're not powerful. Like I like to feel.

You shouldn't be ashamed of that.

Yeah.

You shouldn't be embarrassed about that at all.

Okay. Tall.

Yeah.

All I care about is tall. I'm sure.

But you should.

No, I need. I do need someone who feels powerful, who I feel protected by. I'm just looking for a father.

But that's. Yeah, but I get it. But. But you definitely shouldn't feel embarrassed about it. And I think that's partly what it is, is that when we do these activities, we kind of look for the one that makes us feel the most comfortable and happy, rather than the one that's actually true. And that's why we attract the wrong people into our life. And that's why we spend 10 years with someone and we're not sure they're the right person, but because they looked good on paper.

And just be honest with you, Tinder and all that stuff. As I'm taking this quiz, I'm trying to impress Jay with a good answer instead of saying the truth.

This is.

This is.

And the truth impresses me more than the impressive answer. Yeah, that's it.

People like you so much more. Like, when you're trying to get validation from people, the irony is trying to get it. And being unctuous is what's repellent.

Yeah.

So just being honest is what makes people like you and all. Take me so long to realize that.

And all of these ideas have been planted in our minds.

This is a good question that I struggled with answering. What do you watch most often on tv? A, documentaries, biographies, and human observations. B, entertainment, politics, current affairs. C, comedy, sport, drama, motivational stories. D, soap operas, reality tv, family gossip, daytime shows. And I'm curious if the motive matters, because I definitely watch Documentaries, biographies. But it's because I'm insecure about my intelligence. It's embarrassing to admit, but I watch TV as a way to try to get smarter, to try to get information, to try to be interesting and to try. Because my biggest fear in life is being boring.

Yeah.

In a conversation, or not knowing something that someone else knows and. Or like having the FOMO in a group where everyone's seen something and I haven't. So it's like if everyone's watching a documentary, I'm like, I have to watch it so that I'm not left out. So does it matter that that's why I pick a no?

Because it's mixed again. So what I heard in there is there was a lot of values and wisdom there. Like, you want to have more knowledge, you want to have more insight. Now, the reason you want to have it isn't perfect, but that's not bad. It's still a great. It's better to be informed than uninformed.

Yeah.

So you're winning already. But I think all of us have to move in our values. So I'll give you. This is going to sum it up really beautifully. In the Bhagavad Gita, there's three intentions behind everything, and they're either the mode of ignorance, the mode of passion, or the mode of goodness. So there are these three modes that any action, any habit, any intention can be done in. So the mode of ignorance is when you do things out of fear or anxiety. The mode of passion is when you do things for desire or result. And the mode of goodness is when you do things from love or compassion or curiosity, like that. They're kind of like love or thirst. And so in that most of us, including me, our state of being is very mode of ignorance. We do most of what we do out of fear and anxiety. And the problem with that is that when you do something out of fear and anxiety, it doesn't suddenly transform into love and compassion or joy or meaning or purpose. It stays that way and continues to perpetuate that cycle of needing to get more of that fear and anxiety. So that's something that we can push an upgrade from. So next time you want to do something and you're watching a documentary, be like, all right, right now, I'm starting this by doing it because I'm scared of not looking smart or not being conversationalist. But actually, you know what? This time I'm going to intentionally change my intention to be, because I'm going to do it because I just love Being informed. And I want to be informed so I can share this. And you literally do that intentionally. And you will see how your experience changes. It's that metaphysical, like, literally sitting there and just literally walking yourself through it and changing your mindset around something can change your experience of it. As soon as you feel guilty or judge yourself or criticize yourself, you actually start losing energy to that. And that's the same energy that's going to help you get out of that. And so as monks, it was almost like you would laugh when you'd catch yourself letting the monkey mind go loose. And so in the beginning of the book, I speak about the monkey mind and the monk mind. The monk mind almost laughs when it notices the monkey and goes, ah, okay, I saw you. I see you. I see you. My fear. I see ego. I see what you're trying to do there. And it's that kind of like, fun, playful spotting. It's almost like you just saw your dog running around outside and you're like, I see.

I can't stay mad at you, you silly goose.

Exactly.

I love that. And that's something we do in 12 step programs, is you befriend your character defects because they are trying to protect you. They're trying to help you. It's like when your dog goes out and barks at the mailman and you're like, you know, it's not a threat, but the dog is just trying to protect you, you know, and so.

And the off chance that the dog's right when it isn't the mailman, like.

Yes, because sometimes those. Those tools work and there were real threats back in the day. And those tools, weapons were very necessary, but they just, they're now obsolete. Like, the war is over, right? As we say in program, the war is over. You lost, like, just, you know, I love that. Like, just sort of having levity around your negative inner monologue or your negative thoughts. Like, you don't have to take them seriously. They don't have to. It's like watching Star wars. Or it's. It's. It's just a. It's just a science fiction movie.

Totally.

I'm not good enough. He doesn't like me. I suck. I'm gonna be alone forever like you. They. Those don't have to be true. It's like a. Oh, those are just crazy thought and they're silly. And yeah, I love that.

And.

Yeah. And what we do in, you know, program is if you have a character defect, sometimes you name them. Like your selfishness has a Name. And you're like, hey, Bill. Like, what are you doing here today? Oh, you want to come say hi? Like, I don't need you today. I'm good. You know, you can sit back on the bench. Like, don't need you in the game today.

You know, I love that. I love that. Yeah. And 12 step program is amazing. It's so well designed from a human psychology point of view. And it's just that naming people voices in your head is brilliant.

Yes.

It's so important. Making them characters because then otherwise you think they're you. That's the point. That's the whole point of it. Yeah.

Love you. What causes you the most pain? A, feeling like I don't live up to my own expectations. B, the state of the world. C, a sense of rejection. D, feeling disconnected from friends and family.

Yeah, that's a big one. Repeat the first one again.

Feeling like I don't live up to my own expectations.

Yeah. Is that the first one?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, that can be.

That's yours, you think?

Yeah, that's definitely mine.

What causes you the most pain? This is a tricky one. Being rejected by men. I don't even. Like.

Yeah, that one.

Feeling like I don't live up to my own expectations.

Yeah, that's definitely my one.

But. But my own expectations are outrageous. They're ridiculous.

But that's why we shouldn't feel that.

Yeah. And by the way, I've achieved most of them against all odds. I should just be like. Like, thinking I'm awesome.

You should.

And instead I'm like, I achieved that impossible thing, but I was wearing the wrong shirt.

Yeah.

And I had sweat stains.

You gave a terrible speech. Yes. Yeah. Gave a terrible speech.

You get. Or I'll go like. Like, you killed with that speech. And then I'll be like, oh, God, how much attention do you need? How desperate?

Like, oh, yeah, we do that, like, constantly. And it's just like.

It's just so roasting myself.

Roasting yourself. You've just reminded me of one of my favorite stories that. That actually I didn't put in the book. It's. It's a story told by the Buddha.

Feeling you'll get another offer for a. I have a feeling you'll have a sequel here.

It's a. It's a story that the Buddha used to tell. And in this story, it's like this person comes across a river, and it's a fast flowing river, and the person wants to get across to get to their destination, and so they're looking at it. And going, okay, well, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And they start noticing that there's some bamboo sticks around. There's. They can find some rope, they can find some things to make a little raft. So they start gathering all of this stuff, laying it on top of each other, trying to tie it all up together, and they finally create this raft. And then they create a little oar with a stick, and. And then they go onto the water and they get to the other side. And when they get to the other side, they go. This person says, oh, wow, this raft literally saved my life. Like, this raft is amazing. Without this raft, I would never have crossed this river. And so what they do is they strap the raft to their back because they're like, I have to take this raft with me because it's so important to me. And so they start walking, start walking, start walking. And now, as they walk away, they now come to one of the most wooded lands in the world. So all these trees are in front of the them, and they start trying to get through, and they realize that they can't get through because this raft is strapped to their back. And they're trying to, like, maneuver and swish through. And then they come to a realization. The person realizes that actually this raft that got them here is not going to help them go through this, and they have to let go of the raft. They have to let go of the thing that actually saved them in the past or helped them get through the past, because it's no longer relevant today. And the Buddha obviously goes on to tell us that that's our habits, that's our mindsets, that's even our skills and our strengths. We may have had something that saved us five years ago, 10 years ago, but don't hold on to it because you think it's still useful, because actually, it can make your life a living hell. Like, trying to get a raft through the wooded land would actually be a lot harder.

But what if there's another river?

Then you'll build another r. Then you build another raft. That's the point. You'll build that bridge. You'll figure out again because you know you've done it before, so that you can always go back to. But sometimes you have to leave behind the tools or at least put them back in the toolkit for now and learn another tool or learn another approach. And I think that's what 12 step is. That's what this is. That's. Everything we're discussing is just us going, oh, well, There may be a tool that I haven't yet got in my toolbox that's going to help me.

Which is why we say one day at a time. Because you go, not yesterday, not tomorrow. What about just now? Yeah, right. You know, so stop trying to solve problems or anticipate problems from five days from now.

Beautiful.

And you can't stay clean on the shower you took yesterday. What is your favorite way of working? A, alone, but with mentors and guides. B, in a team as a leader. C, independently, but with a strong network. D, in a team, as a member. See, I have this constitutional need to be special. And I'm like, none of these apply to me because I'm so special, which is me.

I'm glad you said that.

Which is important. It's a big part of the addictive personality to go. No one understands me. No one knows the kind of pain I'm in. I'm so unique. No one will ever get me. Which is why I need to do this addictive behavior. I'm different. So I had. I'm having a little bit of that.

That's good.

I'm having a little bit of it come up right now. I would. Well, because I'm like, I do this weird job where I do stand up and it's so. I would say it would be independently, but with a strong network, because I do what I do independently, but I couldn't do with it without the fans in the audience.

So, yeah, it's this. This question is all about the energy that you thrive in. So a lot of people, for example, feel the pressure today to be leaders or entrepreneurs or CEOs, because almost like there's this influx of, like, excitement in the industry today of more people be founders. And now everyone thinks they have to be a founder or everyone thinks they have to be a YouTuber because that's the cool thing. And so. So it's like everyone wants to be the front of house.

Interesting.

When actually a lot of us thrive being Steven Spielberg. Right. Or a lot of us thrive being the person behind the camera. A lot of us thrive being the two wonderful people that we have here.

Today who are recording like they're. So that's what we call. That's what my. My therapist always says. She's like, be a worker bee. You don't always see, I have my matchbox with bees. You don't always have to be. Be the face or the hero of everything. Sometimes you're not the best qualified. Everyone is sort of the queen bee of their. Of There's Everyone's a. What did you say? Everyone's the singer. Yeah, Just the band looks different, you know.

Yeah. That's interesting.

Like. Like my producer's a singer. Like, everyone's a singer. There's no background. It's just a different dynamic. Yeah.

And I definitely see total value in that mindset. And then you see it the way that people can apply it to their life. So there's this great conversation between Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs, and they acted out in the movie that they made. And so Steve Wozniak. And I'm a big Steve Jobs fan, and if you haven't read Walter Isaacson's book on him, it's amazing. And so Steve Wozniak is looking at Steve Jobs and having an argument, and he says to Steve Jobs, he goes, well, what do you even do? And imagine looking at Steve Jobs and going, what do you even do? And Steve Wozniak goes, you're not an engineer. You're not a coder, you're not an artist, you're not a marketer. Whatever he says, he says, what do you even do? And Steve Jobs says, musicians play their instruments. I play the orchestra. And it's that understanding of the unique strength of, like, there may be the best violin player or there may be the best string quartet there, but his role was not being good at any of those. He doesn't know how to play the violin or the viola or the. Whatever it is. He knows how to bring it together. And I think that's what we get confused by sometimes, is that we see the people on the front cover of magazines or the front of the show, and we think that's who I need to be to be happy or successful.

It takes 50 people to make them that person. And, you know, and it took me, you know, I made a movie. I kept thinking, I'm directing a movie, I'm directing a movie. I'm starring in the movie. And you think, I'm the most important person here. I have all this pressure on me. The most important person on a movie set is the sound engineer. Someone who. They will never know his or her name, necessarily. They are the most important person on a movie. You don't realize it till you get in post, you know, costume. Most important. So. So, you know, I think that we are. I'm so glad you brought that up, because we are in such, like, a me moment. I'm. Everyone can. It's becoming more democratic. The fame and wealth and rising to fame and. Yeah, everything's a Team. And you have to be able to play well with others and respect other people's.

Yeah. And actually, as talent, you'll respect your team more because you'll realize the value they bring when you know your Vedic personality type and your Dharma.

And by the way, we're seeing. Sorry. More and more the people who don't understand that are getting canceled.

Yeah.

It's like it's. The jig is up.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like the people who are. Now there's that human resources department really get you.

Yeah. I'm the top one again. In this.

You're alone, but with mentors and guides.

Correct. I. I function best when I have a lot of space, when I have a lot of stillness, when I'm alone, when I'm working with myself. And I can tap into, like, people who've really excelled in their fields. And by the way, for a long period of time, that was just books. Books. Like, I grew up reading biographies and autobiographies because that's all I had access to growing up. So I loved reading about MLK and Malcolm X and Steve Jobs and David Beckham, who was the first autobiography I read. And it was just. Yeah. And it's just, you know, I was. I was drawn towards real life stories because I couldn't ask them myself.

How would your ideal self spend spare time? A, reading and deep discussion and reflecting. B, learning about issues and. Or attending political events. Oh. C, there's no such thing as spare time. Networking, connecting, working. That's mine. D, enjoying time with family and friends. Mine would be, there's no such thing as spare time. Networking, connecting, working. That's fine. I have shame around it. But it's the truth.

But there's no shame in it.

Yes.

Yeah. There's no shame in it. It's fine.

Okay.

It's who you are.

You're right. You're right. The idea is to get to know your authentic self, not judge your authentic.

Self and then decide whether you want to.

Then I can actually address it.

Correct. Yeah.

Then.

Otherwise, what we do is we make our intentional ideal self feel like who we are. Right. So what we do is we go, okay, that's the one I feel embarrassed about being.

Yeah.

So I'm actually just going to say I'm my ideal self in my heart because that's what I'm really trying to be. So I'll give an example of what I mean by that. There's a. There's a really good study that I share in the book about the Good Samaritans So the Good Samaritans obviously trained to be good people and do good in the world and be kind to people. They're told that they have to give a speech on being a Good Samaritan, and they have to go from their classroom in Building A to the exam room in Building B where they'll be tested and have to give this speech. But they're told literally, like 15 minutes before they have to do it. So they're all stressing out. So they're stressing out. They're stressing out. They're stressing out. They run down the building, they're trying to run across to their exam room because they're told, you've got 15 minutes. You've got to give this speech. They're practicing on the way, and someone with a really hurt leg is lying on the floor. The decoy. It's not real. And there's someone with a hurt leg lying on the floor. And they found that. That over 50% of the good Samaritans ignored the person who was in pain on the floor to go and give a speech about being a Good Samaritan. So they didn't actually do the act of being a Good Samaritan. And that's what happens when our intention of being a higher self doesn't match with the action of being a higher self. And so when you address it and you say, actually, you know what? I should have stopped and taken care of that person and helped them up and been better to them, and, okay, well, then I can change to become that. But if you just ignore it and go, oh, yeah, but I know what the value is. I know what the higher value is. Does that make sense?

Yes, Total sense. No, I was just. My comedian brain kicked in.

Go on.

And I was just like, how good of an actor was the person pretending to be.

Oh, you're like, they were terrible actor. Yeah. Oh, true.

Like, what's that guy?

Oh, true. They were just. You know what? That is a really good point. I think. I think you should make sure that you go into these studies and make sure they pick good actors. If the casting was terrible.

My leg. And everyone's like, I have to go make his page. I'll come back later and do this weird improv with you.

That is brilliant. That is brilliant. I love that. That is brilliant. I never thought of that all along. It was the bad acting.

It's hard to pretend it was the bad acting when you're really in pain. You're just kind of quiet and sort.

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Would you describe yourself in three words? A. Idealistic, introverted, insightful B Driven, dedicated, determined C Passionate, motivated, friendly D Caring, loving, loyal. Yeah, I Have to be honest. I want to be passionate, motivated, and friendly. And I think I am those things. But if I'm gonna be honest, I'm be driven, dedicated and determined. I wake up like, me too. Gotta. Gotta achieve something. Gotta do it.

I'm with you on that.

Gotta be passionate, motivated and friendly and caring and loving and loyal. It's like I. You know, So I think it's C. In what type of environment do you work best? A, remote, still silent, natural. B, A meeting room or gathering place. C, Anywhere and everywhere. D, A specific. A space specific to my type of work. Home, office, laboratory. I think I work best in a meeting or gathering space. I do need to be accountable. I need. And I need to be a little bit competitive if I'm going to be honest. I need to see other people working, even if it's a. If they're not even working, even if they're secretly on Facebook and I pretend they're working. And I think I'm falling behind, and it motivates me to be harder.

See, the reason why, what you just did, and this is what I'm hoping everyone's going to do when they read this part, is it's so important to know that because now you actually have a pattern that you can repeat until it's not true. And so most of us wake up in the morning and we go, I'm not motivated to work today. I don't like what I'm going to do today. I'm not happy today, whatever it is. And it's like, well, have you created the right environments? Have you put yourself in the right.

Spaces, set yourself up to win?

Have you? Exactly. That's all it is. And the only way you'll know that is if you answer that question and have the reflection you did and go, okay, well, if I go to a gathering place today, or if I go to this place and I'm around other people, let me see how I do. And then you'll go and you'll test it out, and then you'll be like, okay, that didn't work. Let me try the other one. Right? And so if you're unsure, it's just about trying all of these options rather than just leaving it up.

And also just in just surrendering to something not working, going, I guess this is the way it's always going to be.

Exactly like, that's it.

Easy.

That's that one.

How do you prepare for a vacation? Oh, no. A. By picking my reading material. Be having a focus. Longest plan of key sites to visit. C, With a list of the best bars, clubs, and restaurants. D. With an easygoing attitude.

B. For me.

B. I'm. I mean, we're both Virgo. September 4th and 6th. Yeah. Having a focus plan of key sites to visit.

Yeah. That's.

So I don't always have to do it, though I am a person that I'll pre plan. Pre plan, pre plan, which I. I really encourage everyone to do this because I'm. I'm realizing that I need something to look forward to. Planning things to me, is almost as good as doing them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just having it in the calendar. So I'm that person that. And I drive my wife crazy. I'm like, I need a schedule for the day, to know what we want to achieve, to do the fact that.

Your wife has the one man that makes a schedule and doesn't appreciate it. Her and I will have words.

I'm like, I want to schedule. And even if we don't get to all of it, I'm okay with that. But I want to know that we made a plan and that we were trying to get to all of it.

Yes, we're signed. We need it.

I want to know what I'm going to experience today. But see, here's where. There we start thinking people don't care about us in the sense of. Because our answer is, B, we think that if someone cares about me, then they will make a plan. But what we don't realize is that that's not how they're wired. So for them, how they feel loved and show love is easygoing, number D letter D. And that's where it gets so fragmented in relationships, because we. So I would be like that with my wife. I'd be like, well, you. You obviously don't love me enough because you're not organized about the schedule of the day. And she was just like. But I just don't think like that. My parents never. My parents always did all the planning, and we just went along with what they did. And. Whereas my parents wanted me to plan and get involved. And so it's so interesting how we start looking at these things as gaps in our relationship, and that's not necessarily true.

How do you feel if you make a mistake? A, I feel guilty and ashamed. Yes. B, I have to tell everyone. C, I want to hide it. D, I reach out to someone supportive. I feel guilty and ashamed.

I feel guilty and ashamed first. And then I probably do. D, which is reach out to someone that can kind of give me some context on it. I kind of like reaching out to someone who I think holds me to higher standards and will be able to speak about it with me without judging me, because I need to not judge myself. And sometimes I feel like we need someone else in our life who doesn't judge us for a mistake. Then we go, oh, okay, I don't have to judge myself.

And you might realize you didn't even make one. Yeah, that's. It might just be your perfectionist.

Totally.

My therapist always says, she's like, I have good news and bad news. Nobody cares. Like this huge mistake. You think everyone's obsessing about like, you're not trending. No one cares.

Yeah, I love that one. And. And I think it's so important that people have different people, they call for different things. Because the mistake we make, again, again, the opposite, is that we tell one person everything.

Yep.

Or we tell everyone everything. And both of those don't work because that one person gets completely drained and distanced from us because they can't deal with that level of overwhelm. And then when you tell everyone everything, we all know what that goes like. So it's so much more important to be like, okay, when I have a career challenge, this the person I go to, when I have this, I go to this. And you may say, well, how do I start? It's important. Start building those relationships with people in your life that have different skills that they provide you, and you provide something back to them too.

And also don't go to the problem for the solution. And I think I tend to conflate that with, I need to be honest and authentic. So sometimes we conflate over sharing with, I'm gonna be authentic and I'm gonna set a boundary and I'm gonna tell them how I feel and I'm gonna be honest. That's not always healthy communication.

Agreed.

We say restraint of pen and tongue. Like, if you're my problem, I'm not gonna come to you and expect you to have the solution. You know, so I have a problem with my family. I might go to my friends or my program or my Jay Shetty book or whatever it is or my podcast to get a solution, and then I'll bring that solution to the relationship. And the solution might be to say nothing and to have just dealt with, to forgive or to turn it over or to go for a run or take a nap or, you know, join a 12 step program or something. Chances are the person you have a conflict can't solve the conflict for you.

Well said.

Because that's their issue in the first place.

Yeah, you solve the conflict with them, but they're not going to solve it for you. One of my favorite tools in the relationships chapter is something that we had to do a lot as monks, where you're very careful about the words you use because you realize how much, much power each word has. And so there's a great study by Harvard, which you can type in on Google. It's called the list of emotions, and I often refer to it as emotional vocabulary. So all of us have a very limited emotional vocabulary. We literally use five words. Okay, good, bad, fine. Hmm. Right. So it's like, how's your week going? Okay. How's your day been? Good. And so this list of emotions by Harvard goes through each keyword that we say most often and breaks it down into, like, seven other words that actually define what it means. So when you say you're sad, are you actually offended? Are you irritated? Are you upset? And it gives you all of these synonyms, but it's helping you diagnose and articulate how you actually feel. So when you do approach someone, you're actually coming from a place of giving them clarity, because half the time, you diagnose yourself wrong. It's like you see a little rash and you try and diagnose yourself on Google, and you got it.

Yeah, yeah.

And you get it all wrong. So it's the same thing. So it's so important to use words where you've got really close to what you actually feel. That's the only way someone can actually.

And it's not the other person's job to decipher it. It's your job to be clear. It's your job to say it. Right. It's not their job to be psychic and figure it out. And you're an adult. It's your responsibility to use the right words when you're in a conflict.

And the positive words, too. Like, it's defining also. Like, for example, when someone says, I love you, they might mean, I want to spend the night with you. And someone says, I love you. And they're like, I want to spend my life with you. Those are two very different. And so when you hear the word love, you're projecting your belief of the definition of the word love onto that person, saying. And you go, I love you too. And you've just.

We have not agreed on the definition of this.

And you've just projected your definition on what you said and they said, and you said that it met in your head.

Yes.

Because your word definition Was off. And I know that sounds crazy because when someone says I love you, you're not gonna be like, well, let's define what you mean.

I did a whole bit on I love you and what it means.

Oh, I love it.

We have to agree on a common definition of love. And I think my definition of love is being willing to die for someone that you yourself wanna kill. I think that's what it was. But it's also a lot of times I love you means shut up. Like, I love you, I love you. I mean, we use it to manipulate. We use it to tell someone to calm down. I love you, baby. I love you. Okay. I love you. Like, we use it a lot. It's thrown around a lot.

Yeah.

You know, you've totally desecrated.

I need to watch that.

If you can find it. Good luck. What do you do when you have to make a big decision? A, I reflect privately. B, I ask my mentors and guides. C, I weigh the pros and cons. D, I talk to family and friends. I'm really bad at making. Making big decisions. I get very overwhelmed. But I usually think if it's not a hell yes, it's a no. Like, it's. The answer's usually no for any decision. For me, it's usually no. But it also depends on who. If it's an authority figure I have to tell, I'll sort of get scared that they're going to be mad at me, and I have to sort of work through that. And then I'll ask mentors and guides, what do you think I should do? I'll outsource the decision to someone that's not emotional because I get too emotional.

Interesting. I go private. Mine's the first one.

I reflect privately.

Yeah, I need to. Like, I found that getting away from noise and everyone's opinions and expectations and messages, because then that starts messing with how I feel. And now what I feel is made up of everyone else's feelings, and I don't like that.

And then you've recruited a bunch of people, and now they're invested in you executing what, their advice.

Correct. And so I don't enjoy that at all. And so I'm like, I want to take all the. My own responsibility, but that requires me to get away and make my mind up about something. And then I come back with my version. And then I'll check in with mentors and guides.

Because sometimes when you ask too many people and they give you their advice, you're like, oh, I don't want to not take their advice.

Yeah, yeah.

And then be mad at me.

Now you're like, I can't message them again because I haven't taken their advice. They're gonna, like, judge me for, like.

I spent an hour of your time, and I'm not even taking. Totally.

And that's my worst nightmare. So I was like, no, definitely not doing that.

Oh, that's interesting. Okay, last one. Which best describes your daily routine. A, it changes moment to moment. Moment. B, it's very focused and organized. C, I follow the best opportunity that comes up. D, it's simple and scheduled. Oh, I mean, I'm a. D, you're a. D, you're at simple and scheduled. That's the healthiest, I would say. I. I'm going to be honest. I wish it was simple in schedule, but I do think it changes moment to moment because I'm so easily distracted and I can never figure out how to use Dropbox. So I. I think my day schedule, and then I spend half of it trying to download a video. Yeah. And then I'm like, I need to fire everyone. Yeah. I think it changes moment to moment. And I would like to work on that because I'm delusional. I tell myself it's simple and scheduled, but it's not.

Yeah, but that's great. So you accept, and then you go, okay, this is what I want. Let's pave a way, rather than being like, oh, yeah, it's simple and scheduled.

You know how, like, people tell themselves things to try to convince themselves? Like when people go, look, I'm not crazy, and you're like, that's literally what a crazy person says to try to prove to themselves that they're not crazy. And you just made me realize that. I say things about myself like, well, I'm just so organized and like, I run a ton tight ship. And it's like, I'm. I say that, but it's not necessarily true.

It's called. In Steve Jobs book, Walter Isaacson called it reality distortion field. And so you have the ability to distort reality based on how you want to see it. And so it can get as extreme as when it said that when Steve Jobs denied having a child, for example, it was referred to as that in the book. At least that's how far it can go. Where if you want to remove something out of your. Your memory or life, then you. You just block it out.

I do it with money, too.

I think we all do with every. Like, we all have it to some degree. We all practice it. All the time. And I think having people who can catch you on those blind spots or doing activities and exercises that make you aware of those blind spots is useful.

It's like people who are like, I hate drama. And you're like, you love drama. Oh, my God, you're obsessed with drama. You love it.

Well, attachment and aversion in the Bhagavad Gita, it says, are two sides of the same coin. So when you say I love something or I hate something, it's the same level of attachment. So in the sense of, like, we were always trained as monks. They're like being a monk. And. And a lot of people get it wrong. And obviously there are female monks too. But a lot of people think, oh, if you're monks, then maybe you just don't want to be with women or you don't like women. Actually, that cannot be a reason for being a monk. You can't dislike women to be a monk. Like, hate or lust are almost two sides of the same coin where it's still. That you're still completely wrapped up in it, because that's still all you think about.

Don't forget that, because I want to come back to that, but we should finish. What. Let's see, what. What did I win? What do I win for being so?

I don't know.

We need to count answ to tally your answers. Now, the most selected letter reflects your varna. Yeah, I think I was a maker. So you can be a guide, a leader, creator and maker. Can you just tell me what those mean real quick?

Yeah. So a guide is someone that is who absolutely loves dealing in thought, ideas, thinkers, ideators, people who are always like, basically on a very intellectual and mental level. Leaders are people who are always considering others, wanting to protect, wanting to provide. A good president would be a leader in. In terms of a personality trait. They have the ability to think beyond themselves. Creators are who just want to build, grow, make great entrepreneurs. Makers are talented people, artists, people who perform, people who also work great with their hands. They may even do arts and crafts, people who are fantastic at invention. So those are very quick versions of what they are. And there's deep ones in the book.

I love this. I think you should. I think this is something you should do, like, every couple months. Do you know what I mean, too? Yeah.

See how you evolve.

That's the other thing, because it's like, I think I'm big on growing and changing and. And like changing your mind and changing your opinions. And, you know, I think there's this like, thing now where people are like, I'm this type of person. It's like, why would you want to stay that way? You know, why would you want to get new information and keep your former opinion?

It's actually exhausting to try and stay the same because you're just constantly, like, trying to hold on to something that's trying to change.

What are you going to do? What's next? I have to let you go. You have 900 other podcasts today.

No, I don't.

Easily. Easily the hardest person to schedule. Well, no, I just mean, like. No, no, I don't mean that. I just mean you're. You're the man.

No, no, that's a good thing. No, I. This was so much fun. First of all, we're friends now. Yeah, I've been looking forward to this because I'm a huge fan and admirer, and I watch you all the time and think you're hilarious. And when I saw that you liked my work, I was like, what? I was so, like, when it comes to, like, my work, I just never imagined that you would even care what I did. And so then I was just like, oh, this is so cool. And. And the way this conversation has gone has shown me exactly why. Like, I really love how you went about this, and it excites me so much that I got to share what I do in a way that hopefully connects and resonates with everyone you connect and resonate with, and more importantly, that we've built a relationship through it. So when I saw you were looking at my work and stuff is I'd been just everyone, and you're friends with everyone else that I follow in love, and I was just like, no way. Like. And so anyway, I was very. I was very humbled and taken aback when you took an interest.

The universe has conspired to bring us together, and my goal was to be able to maybe do something different.

This was the most unique interview style. And doing that, that was genius. And I'm glad because I literally. I don't think I said anything in this interview that I've said anywhere else.

Anyway, you'd have to go on autopilot.

I'm so glad. Yeah.

Think like a monk. Anything else you want to? I end these very awkwardly. I.

Perfect.

Don't ride elephants, don't ride dolphins.

This is great. I love it. Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for listening to that episode. Make sure you tag me on Instagram when you share it and pass it along to a friend who's a Whitney Cummings. Fan or a fan of learning about themselves. Thank you so much for being here again today. And I'll see you again for another episode of On Purpose.

Hey, it's Joel and Matt from how to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right, yeah. Each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big deal. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley.

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Health Stuff is about learning, laughing, and.

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