Ep 38: Tony Robbins (Part 2) on Morning Routines, Peak Performance, and Mastering Money

Hey folks, Tim here. My bestselling card game, Coyote, which I made with the amazing team at Exploding Kittens, just won the Pop Insider Best geeky game of 2025 and also best stocking filler in the Made for Moms Toy Awards 2025. It is on sale everywhere. It's cheap, it's fast to learn, has 4.8 stars out of five. People are loving it. CoyoteGame.com will take you to all the retailers, but you can find it everywhere. It is a game of thinking fast and laughing faster. Think char meets hot potato meets a bunch of brain fun.

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Optimal Minimal at this altitude I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

Can I answer your personal question now with a semi perfect time?

What if I did the opposite?

I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over metal endoskeleton me. Tim Ferris show.

Well hello there my dear little munchkins. This is Tim Ferriss. I've had some caffeine since you last heard from me. What you're about to hear is part two of a multi part conversation with Tony Robbins. To put it briefly, Tony Robbins is a performance strategist with clients including presidents like Bill Clinton, Mother Teresa. Not making this up. Andre Agassi, Leonardo DiCaprio and Oprah Winfrey who calls him superhuman. This guy is a force of nature. If you didn't catch the first part, you might want to do that before venturing in. But really we jump around a lot, cover a lot of different topics. So if you don't mind your stories is more of a jigsaw puzzle, then by all means keep on listening from this point on. This episode is brought to you by 99designs.com, the largest marketplace of graphic designers in the world. Here's how it works. You go to 99designs.com I suggest Tim for reasons I'll explain and whether you need to create a logo, a website, a car Wrap a bumper sticker, whatever it might be, a T shirt. You can put up what you need, a description. Then designers around the world compete for your business by submitting ideas and designs and so on. And in less than a week you have an original design that you love or you get all your money back. And I have used 99 designs for years, including for some very big projects like the book cover or at least brainstorming book cover ideas for the Four Hour Body, which went on to become a number one New York Times bestseller and is in, I don't know, a dozen plus languages and has sold a gajillion copies. So I have used it when time and money has been of the essence. It is a fantastic tool. And if you go to 99designs.com Tim, you can actually see some of the campaigns, some of the competitions that I've run. So actual submissions for the book covers and things like that. You can also get a $99 upgrade for free, which gets you more submissions. So check it out. 99designs.com Tim. And now without further ado, please enjoy part two, the final part of the Tim Ferriss show with Tony Robbins. And to touch on a few things that you mentioned, for those people asking themselves, as I'm sure a lot of people would, how can I apply what these guys do to what I do? I think that you present a number of observations articulated very, very well that most people will never be exposed to. For instance, number one, asset allocation does not mean choosing if you are going to be a stock picker or invest in an index fund for the S&P 500 because you're in one bucket right now.

That's right.

You're in a correlated class.

That's right. There's no diversification in that.

Right.

There's more to.

Well, there's some. There's diversification. There may be more companies, but it's all within same asset class.

The other thing is that there are ways to look at the problem that are not obvious right off the bat. For instance, you mentioned something that's so simple but a lot of people miss. If you invest and you lose 50%, you have to now have 100% gain to get back to break even. Put another way, this is also straight from the book. If you, let's just say I think it was investing over either five or 10 years. The exact number is in the book. You'd invested in the stock market through a, let's just call it off the shelf, mutual fund that charges typical fees and the market moves up and down up and down, up and down. At the end of that period of time, you're back at the same market levels. You would think if you put in 100 grand, you'd have 100 grand at the end of that period of time, and it ends up that you're 47% down. Something obscene.

It's the idea of average rates of return. So if a lot of people look at their, what they've invested and their, their broker or their, whoever represents them will show them the portfolio and go, look, you know, you went up, you started here, you went up 50%, you went down 50, but you went up 50, you went down 50. So your average rate of return is zero. But when I put real dollars in there, $100,000, and you go up 50 or 150, you go down 50, you're at 75, you go up 50, oops. And then you go down and you end up at $37,000 instead of $100,000 because your principal is moving up and down. So there are all these ways we could do the biggest one, the biggest lie, you know, in the book, I walk you through seven steps. So one of those steps is, frankly, you got to do what most of us guys, probably people listening on your team already do, and that is you've got to become an investor. You got to be an owner, not a consumer, right? And the way to do that, frankly, we all know, but very few people do, and that's, you take a percentage, you lock it down it, you never see it, it's automated, and you put it aside for investment, and that just occurs. And I show the people some of the tools that Nobel Prize winners have come up with. So if you say, I have no money, you can invest more for tomorrow by committing when you get a raise or your company gets the next level, you automatically have that percentage go there. So it's money you've never seen, it's not taking away money from you. So you're willing to commit to it. Right?

And there are ways to automate that.

Totally automate, which is fantastic. So, you know, they took, they took a group of blue collar workers who couldn't save more than 3%. And they showed in 12 years they had them up to 16% with absolutely no sense of loss. Because, you know, once if I, they show this with example, Behaviorist showed me that if you give a monkey an apple, they go crazy. You give them two apples and they go crazy. And if you take one of the two apples back, they're angry as hell. They still have the same first apple. What happens is if you don't give them that second apple, but it gets invested for them, you know, that changes your world. You don't feel a sense of loss, there's no drop. And yet you set yourself up saving 15, 16, 70% at a totally different world than 3 or nothing, obviously. Second piece though, I got through that, brought this up for, is you gotta, it's great to get in the game, but oh my God, don't get in the game till you understand the rules, till you're an insider. And so I go through the nine biggest lies and they're investment lies, they're Wall street lies, however you want to call them, but they're marketed lies. There's a reason you believe them. Very heavily marketed, very heavily marketed to the advantage, right? And one of those is this idea that they're going to beat the market. And now here's the real facts. 96%, check it out. 96% of all mutual funds in a 10 year period will never even match the market. Now you're paying a premium. You could have owned an index that cost you 20 basis points, right, at Vanguard or 14 basis points, what index you're dealing with. Instead you're paying, they say, 1%. You ask people what, oh, it's just 1%. In reality, if you go through Forbes has shown the average mutual fund, when you put all fees in, if you read the prospectus and there's all these 21B trading, all these things that they don't call fees very often, but they're money out of your pocket. The average is 3.1%. Now when you do that, here's the problem, number one, only 4%. What's your chance of picking the 4% of mutual funds they're going to be succeed. If you go for Morningstar, you're screwed. Because I can show you statistically Morningstar's own statistics that Show In a 10 year period, out of 250 people that made it to Five Star Morningstar, four are left. It doesn't work that way, right? So if you could pick the 4%, if you were magically able to do that, you could do all white. But the 4% is always changing. So your chances of picking the right mutual fund are 96% against you. And the average person's 401k at work. They don't know how to evaluate this. They try and pick it. So they're screwed. And then you get poor performance and you pay somewhere between 10 and 30 times more for the same investment. You could have got for 30 times 10 to 30 times less. It's like the ultimate insert to injury. And go, why does that matter? Well, first let me give you this so people understand what 96% means or getting a 4% possible success rate. If you and I play blackjack, most people know how to play, right? 21, you get two face cards. That's worth 20 points. If your inner idiot says, hit me when you got two face cards, go 21, you have an 8% chance of success. You have a greater chance of success there than you did if you're trying to find the right mutual fund. Now what's your chance of success in getting financially free when here's what's unbelievable if, if I said to you, here's an investment, I want you to try, Tim, here's how it works. You put up all the money, you put up all the risk, and I will put up no money. And I put up no risk. And if you win, I get up to 60% of your entire growth of what you have over the lifetime of your investing. You put a bullet money, I take no risk, I put no money in. And if you lose, you lose. But I don't lose anything. That's a deal that most people said I'd never take in a million years. That's the average mutual fund because for every 1% you pay, it's 20% over the lifetime of your investments of growth. Because just like there's compounded growth, there's compounded fees, right? So vogel showed me 60%. I'm saying, Jack, how is this possible? How could people be doing this? Like he goes, Tony, it's a 13 trillion dollar lie. And it's called one thing. Marketing. Yeah, says marketing. So I've been In the business 64 years, it makes me crazy. And people still do it. The vast majority of people put their money in a mutual fund. They had an index fund. And now, now he's come to, you know, be the largest mutual fund in the world with an index fund now with 2.5 trillion. I mean, Jack has been modified. But most of the smart money is there. It's not the average person's money that's in the index today. So I go through these lies and what you don't know in the financial world will hurt you. And the one you're talking about is just the average rate of return. You want to be seduced. When you look at the rate of return. Bogle said to me, tony, whenever you see what the rate of return was, you're trying to evaluate that mutual fund based on its past performance. Just know that number is not accurate. Dalbar did an ingredable study, 20 year study. They found the average mutual fund owner over a 20 year period of time made 2.5% net. The market was 9.7%. That ought to give you a sense. So I went to go do this book and I won't mention the person's name. I got all these incredible endorsements from everybody. Nobel prize winners, self made billionaires, all these guys. There's a particular person I have a really good friend of. I won't mention the name, but it was ironic. He wrote me back and said, well my team's read it and they really don't think it's that, you know, that special. I thought, well I'm not insulted by that, but it doesn't make sense to me. And then I found out this person has six mutual funds. So it's like, okay, I get it.

Dude, don't ask a barber if you need a haircut.

That's my fault. I'm so sorry. Never should have asked that question on that one.

So I should point out to folks also that some people are very math phobic. Part of the reason I went Princeton and it's funny, I was reading Carl Icahn's story and how he was, he was just, he was told he would never get into any Ivy League schools and he chose Princeton. Same thing happened to me. I was told I would never get in to a whole host of schools because. And this is kind of like your mutual fund guy. Humans respond to incentives.

Yes.

And this particular guidance counselor is incentivized for what to optimize to be able to say X number X percentage of students got into their first choice school. So how do you do that? Most easily Lower their expectations. Lower their expectations. But I am intrinsically not someone with a lot of math background. Part of the reason I chose Princeton over other schools is because they didn't have a math requirement. And I think for a lot of people listening they may be like oh my God. Percentages and compounding. It's very overwhelming. And I think that part of the reason your book had to be as long as it is and a book should be as long as it needs to be is that if you were to try to compress it into 100 pages it would be like watching a three hour action movie but getting a frame every five minutes. It would be too much and too little space. But when people read the book, When I read the book, you're leading people in a logical progression from building block to building block to building block so that by the end, people are very, very savvy. And so people who might be thinking, oh my God, this is really a lot for me to absorb.

I'm probably talking 100 miles an hour in the book. I'm telling you stories too. And I think the stories take it away. So it's not numbered. You go, holy shit. If me and three of my friends all put aside the same amount of money and we both get a 7% return, but my buddy's getting fees of 3%, my other buddy's 2, and I'm 1, and we both put in, all three of us put a million bucks in, or a hundred thousand, however you want to do it. The person with 3% of fees ends up with 65% less money. And they got the same rate of return. They start with the same amount of money over the same period of time. I think when you see that with real people's lives, you start to go, I don't have to know the math. I just know one thing. Fees matter. And I'm going to cut those babies to the absolute base.

Definitely. And I'd love to talk. You brought it up a little earlier, Ray Dalio and asset allocation. Because this is something I've been thinking about a lot, considering that due to paper gains, I'd say I have very, very, very, very high double digits of my entire net worth in tech. It's hard, unfortunately, to reb when you have a lot of private stock that can't be traded, but you know how it is. But Dalio is someone I've been fascinated by for so long. Maybe you could talk about the all Seasons and some of the stuff that you chatted with him about as it relates to asset allocation.

It might be helpful for people to take a second and give people his background. I mean, Ray is not the guy you would think of as master of the universe. He comes from Queens. His dad was a jazz musician, his mom was a homemaker. Really lovely lady. He went from very lower middle class family and decided that he wanted to go work at a golf course. He bumped into one of the things I talk about is proximity affects your life, who you're in proximity with. And he's around proximity with the very wealthy people and they're talking about stocks. And he got fascinated by it and got hooked on the process and then got involved in the stock business. But he got involved in a time period when the world was incredibly volatile, the 1970s. We're all shaped by our time periods, right? And so if you can imagine, that's a time we have this massive inflation where Nixon goes on television and says we're going off the gold standard. That money as you know it called US$, we're not going to back up with anything. And he thought for sure the markets would just be destroyed, the American dollar is going to be worthless. And instead they had what was called the Nixon rally. And it's like it shook him to his core that as much as you think you know, you don't know. And it gave him a lifelong focus that says, I always want to be asking, what do I not know and how do I find, understand the system as a whole, not just my perspective on the system. So he started Bridgewater. And in fact, my friend Paul Tudor Jones gave him some of his initial capital to do this and is wishing he didn't loan it to him but would have kept it as an investment. I think at this stage because Bridgewater came so gigantic. But what happened was he's the guy the US government went to when they're trying to figure how to design tips. I mean, this is the level of design. He's the guy that when McDonald's is trying to come out with McNuggets and they're trying to figure out how can we make sure we have enough supply of chicken. And he's the one who figured out the math of futures and what to do. So McDonald's could even do that. That's the way this man's brain works. So over the years he built this Alpha fund and it's very intensive and he's lost money in 23 years, three times on that fund. And the fund has returned 21% compounded for 23 years, just mind boggling before fees and then turn around. And after all these years, he said, you know, everybody talks about, you know, at different stage, life, you want to protect yourself. So you do a balanced portfolio, 50%, 60% in stocks maybe, and 40 or 50%, you know, here in bonds because, you know, when the stocks are more volatile, the bonds are going to balance you out. And then he says, you know, but didn't look that way in 2000, didn't look that way, it went down 2008. So over the years he said, this is a story everybody buys, but it's not reality in whole segments of time. So he began to pursue what he said, what if I wasn't around? I need a passive, almost passive form of investment. I need something that wouldn't take 1500 people that my kids could use, that, you know, that would support all my philanthropic efforts if I wasn't here. And he questioned everything about asset allocation that everybody's ever been taught and came up with a different way of looking at it where he basically said there are four things that move the price of any investment. It's inflation and deflation and whether the economy is growing or shrinking. And that creates four different seasons in which every type of investment, stocks, commodities, gold, real estate, it has an ideal environment in which it grows and it has environments in which it will absolutely slam. And so he figured out what's the right combination of these things so that I can reduce the risk to the lowest level of loss possible. Which, you know, Warren Buffett's rules. Everybody talks about the rule, right? It isn't Warren Buffett's rule. It actually comes from his teacher, which was rule number one to investing, don't lose money. Rule number two. See rule number one, right? So how do I make that happen but also maximize the upside, as much upside as possible. He called it his all weather fund because it works in all weather. And he did all his own investing in for 10 years and he back tested it all the way to 1925 and said, oh my God, I have discovered something unbelievable. So the only people got to use this is he. And then finally his clients, the $5 billion net worth, the government, the pension funds. So I've read about it. You know, Ray does very few interviews, as I'm sure you know, he go online, won't find a whole lot, you know, in front of the Congress, you know, maybe at Davos, every now and then he kind of avoids any publicity and so forth. And I did all my homework on him. You know, Paul Tudor's one of his dearest friends, arranged to go see him, studied it all out and I was prepared. And then I go into this meeting and I start asking him, I asked him the question, I ask everybody, which was, if you can't, if you couldn't pass on any of your money or children, none, all you could pass on was a set of principles, an investment strategy and a portfolio. What would it be for your kids? They don't have your skill. Everybody made different answers, but his answer was, well, it would be my all, you know, all weather approach. So explain to me how it works. Explain at the end of it, just like me telling it to you right now real fast. People are probably going, I don't have a clue what he just said. It seems logical, but the one thing he said, is, Tony, is when people think they got a balanced portfolio, stocks are three times more volatile than bonds. So when you're 50, 50, you're really 90, 10, you really are massively at risk. And that's why when the markets go down, you get eaten alive. So he has this portfolio and describes principles. I said, you know what, Ray? I said, this is spectacular. I understand it. But he said, the only way you really get the result from this is if you know the exact percentages. It's like if you got a. You got somebody's recipe and you put in a gallon. When they put in a teaspoon of a particular ingredient, you're messed up. So I said, I need the secret sauce. And he looks at me and laughs. He goes, tony, that's my business. And that's when he gave me the whole $5 billion net worth. And, you know, gotta have 100 million. I said, yeah, Ray, but you just got done telling. You haven't taken anybody's money for 10 years. You're not gonna take anybody's money. He goes, yeah, but, you know, it's really complex. And I said, I know it is, but give me a simple version. He said, no, you know, it's always changing. I said, give me a version with no leverage that the average person can do. You just got done telling me they go into their broker, go into their wealth manager, and, you know, going there, mutual fund's not going to work. So help a little guy out. I know you care. And I started teasing him. I said, come on, you know, give me the juice. He started laughing. He goes, well, he said, I could give you something wouldn't be perfect. I said, I don't want perfect. Your worst design will be the best design anybody else will ever come up with, right? So I got him going. He said, well, we might do. And he lays out this simple strategy. And I was vibrating. I mean, I was, like, vibrating. I knew what his generosity level was. It was unbelievable. He's never revealed it to anyone in history. And I ran as fast as I could. I got in the helicopter, flew back, went to the guys at Hightower and went to the guys at two of the firms. And I said, I want you to run these numbers. Show me the modern period. Show me the last 30 years. What really happened with this formula? Every single year for 30 years. What's the overall for the 30 years? Because I look at 30 years. 1984. That's when we finally had cell phones even, right? That's when the world started shifting. Show me 40 years and show me 75 years. Take me back right before the depression even, right? And the guy texted me, I'm in the middle of the night, he never texted me. And he says have you seen the numbers? And so I'll never forget, I get up, I call him on the phone, I said, what? No, I haven't seen him. He emails them to me. And ray was right 85 to 86% of the time. Every time period we look at between 85 and 86, 30 years, 40 years, 75 years, what that means and by the way that's being Liberal because the 15% where he lost money, the most he ever lost is 3.95% in 75 years. And that was 2008 when the market was peak to trough was down 51%. The average loss including that was 1.9%. So like for example, you know one of his losses.03, I mean really it was break even but we called it a loss because it's technically it's a loss. If you could go to Vegas and you knew that for 75 years the strategy you used had been successful 85% of the time and that when you lost the most you lost was 1.9%, how much would you bet? How long would you continue to gamble? I mean it's not hard to figure it out. So I mean I mismatched, I took it to some very large institutions and they're like I've never seen anything like this. So a couple of people said to me, you know this, let's just don't put this in the book. This is a business man, this is a business. This will give you the lowest level of volatility, the highest level return, it averages just under 10% return. With that little volatility, it's mind boggling. So I said, you know what, that's not the spirit it was shared in. I said, you know, we can do this for people if they want to do it and you have that option. But I'm putting the book so anybody can do it and it's in the book right then and there and you know it's not the only one. There's strategies for everybody but it's one of the more exciting ones that you'll see.

Is there anything totally up to you but just is there anything you can share from what he told you about the all weather? Well and I will just say as a preface, look there's so much in this book, number one I've had also people say to me, for instance, I'm not going to name any of my close friends, but like, yeah, four Hour Body, blah, blah, blah, that's fine. Give me the index card.

I know, I know.

And I give them the index card and there's context missing.

Exactly.

And they also. It's not just because they can't in some cases do it because they're missing the detail. They won't do it. So get the book. Do yourself a favor.

I'm not holding back on that. I don't think I can make a damn book anyway. The reason I wouldn't share that is because it'll be out of context. But even in the book, I tell people the first chapter, I tell them this result, I give one example and I say, I know the first thing you want to do is turn back to that section of look. And I said, you can do it. But I caution you, there's a syntax, there's a sequence. The dog, the joint job of the dog. And if you will go through the sequence, it's going to be more. If you know that portfolio, but you don't know truthfully what your risk tolerance is, you don't know truly what your personal goals are, you don't know what you need to avoid on the fee structure and the tax structures, then that return won't be very great for you. And more importantly, you won't go through the psychology. It'll make you actually follow through for a while. But if people want to do it. By the way, I then went to Hightower, which is the 5th largest rest investment advisory in the United States. 30 billion in assets, 13th fastest growing Inc. Magazine company. Fastest growing company. Amazing. Elliot is the CEO blown away by this man. I did an interview with him and I left there going, this man is committed to total transparency. This man blows out all those fees, all the. To say it in this nicest way possible, screwing over that happens to most clients. He eliminates that. He's a former litigator. He's got a moral code that's pretty intense. I loved him. So I came back and I called him up and said, let's meet again. And met again. And I said, you know, I got a challenge for you. I said, how about you do this for everybody else? What are you talking about? I said, how about for the average man that really needs it? So what are you talking about? I said, bring that ultra wealthy advice to them. Show them on a small scale how they can do what your ultra wealthy client does. He goes, tony, you can't make money doing that. I said, you don't need to make money doing it. And I'm doing a book. I'm not making money doing it. I said, a part of our life has to be for something more. And I said, I know that's what you're about to do. I said, but I'm not talking about putting your business at risk. I said, let's use technology. Technology with live people, the balance. And so we built together a site. I put them together with this group called Stronghold, which is brilliant. They've been managing my money for me for plus seven years. AJ Gupta, he's actually the person that Charles Schwab put on the COVID of most magazines for the last year as kind of the face of the 10,000 registered investment advisory fiduciaries around the world and around the country. And the two of them got together, created a site. It's kind of like, check your broker. So now you can go online and you can put in all your accounts. It'll aggregate them. It's a patented technology. You get to see a what your real costs are on everything, all in one picture. So there's no BS versus what you could have the same investments for. It's like, why would I pay more? Second thing it does is it shows you what your real returns have been combined versus what you think they are. And third, it shows you what your volatility levels have been, the amount of risk you're taking. So you know. And then fourthly, it does a comparison to that versus other portfolios, including the one designed by Ray Dalio. And you can go, wow, do I want to do this? If you're a person, like half the US less than 25,000 of vessel assets, you get to do the whole thing for free. It's given to you. You go do it. If you are not, you have more money, you can still do it for free. You can do it yourself, or you can push a button and say, I'd like you to become my registered investment advisor and somebody can do it. So I got into it saying, most of these people you're never going to see anything from. But wealthy people started. Not wealthy, Right. And so it's really cool. It's one of those few, according to sounds, win wins. Right? These guys are adding value. I got them to do it and now they're proud of it and excited about it. So it's a cool thing.

So, URL.

The URL is. It's. What is it? Stronghold Financial dot com. I gotta double check, but I'm pretty.

Sure we'll double check that. And Also go in the show notes, guys.

You got it.

You were saying, to answer my question, I don't want to cut you off.

Oh, which one?

I got a lot of questions.

Which one?

You know. Well, let me highlight a couple things.

Oh, you answer your question. I said, I'm not going to. I don't want to come in here because even the book, I don't do it to get there. It won't mean anything to you. I'm not holding anything back. You go to the bookstore and open up and read it and not pay anything, I don't give a shit. But I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice. What you really want to do is take yourself to the process so that when you get to that point, you can decide, do I want that value to be 20% of what I do? 5%, 10%? None? 50. Because there are many different strategies in the book and including, as you said, David Swensen. David Swensen is the most successful institutional investor of all time. From Yale, he went from 1 billion, took their money from 1 billion to 23.9 billion, 24 billion. Now in two decades, he's a rock star, nicest human being you'll ever meet in your life, and doesn't get paid one tenth the rest of these guys. It's his dedication to Yale is why he's there. I mean, he could leave there and be at a totally different place. When he had cancer, the man said, listen, I'm not going anywhere. This is my bucket list is to be here and to continue to serve at Yale. A man of such unbelievable integrity. And he gave me his exact portfolio. It's in the book also. And he actually gets a higher return, to give you an idea, than Ray does. But you have to go through a hell of a lot more volatility, obviously. So that's why your risk, you see, why you got to know what your real. What you think your risk reward is in your mindset versus what it really is. You'll know when you go through the book.

If I can make a request, I would love for you to interview the guy who hired Swensen for Yale, because talk about the best hire of all time.

No kidding.

I mean, just the psychological profile on the guy is so unique. So a couple things I'd love to just underscore for folks. The first is, and again, this is pulling stuff from the book. I'm going to paraphrase some of it, but I think it was Dalio who said something along the lines of, like, Losers react, winners anticipate.

It's actually me, but that's okay, it's you. I'll give it to Rebelio.

As a compliment. No, but the point being that the, and I guess Mark Twainquote is also in there, which was what? History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

Yeah.

So there are going to be crashes, there are going to be black swan events, and. And you want to have a plan in place for when that happens. Exactly Right. The more you can automate many of your financial decisions, know when to hold them, know when to fold them, and actually have a plan going in. So if you buy something and have no plan for selling it, you're going to be subject to sort of impulse reactions that will cause you to do what the vast majority of people do. They buy high and they sell low.

So.

What we're talking about when we talk about asset allocation, among other things, just to try to distill it for people as a concept, is that you have uncorrelated or inversely correlated buckets, so that if one portion of your investments goes down because of inflation, deflation, fill in the blank, there are others that go up which mitigate your risk. That's correct. What you notice, and I live in Silicon Valley, I'm very involved with tech. That's been my sandbox for the last close to 10 years, I guess. And what you notice about the 95% to talk about venture capital is very similar to mutual funds. The vast majority are horrible. As a class, they're terrible. However, if you pick the unicorns and you use the same term, Reid Hoffman. Yeah, there are a handful who are very, very consistent. What I've tried to do, just like you did with a lot of these hedge fund managers, is look at what separates them. And what separates them is you have the vast majority of tech investors who think high risk, high return, I've got to swing for the fences. I'll be okay as long as a third of my startups lose money, a third break even and a third make money.

Wouldn't it be nice if life worked that way?

Yeah. Doesn't work that way. Whereas the guys who are really good realize that there's a power law distribution, one or two of their investments are going to make up for all of the losses. And the very top of the top, even though they don't talk about it publicly, if they have a lot of their personal money at play, have thought a lot about asset allocation, if they're heavily vested in tech and it might have an ipo, blah Blah, blah. They have an entire basket of shorts on the Nasdaq or whatever it might be. So that, by the way, it's not always high risk, high reward. If their tech goes to hell, they have enough money that is betting it's going to go to hell, that they don't lose a lot of money, if at all, or maybe they even make money.

That's absolutely true. A way of doing it that you mentioned. I think your brain may have been going this direction. Maybe I'm wrong, but Ray Dalio actually said something in there that stuck with me brutally. He said, I don't care what it is that you think you're great at investing in or you like. Most people invest in what they like real estate or stocks or bonds or what they think they're good at or what they've raised with. He said, whatever asset class you invest in, I promise you in your lifetime it will drop no less than 50 and more likely 70% at some point. And he said, that is why you absolutely must diversify. Because you're saying, but I can make so much more on this side. You know, I've had people throughout the years, I teach this bucket theory, this idea that if you want to do is make asset allocation simple. It sounds like such a big word. It's just buckets. Some of my money is going to go in a secure bucket. That bucket is like a church. People I'm going to. It's not going away. It's very secure type investments. Its upside is not gigantic in terms of speed, but you know what, the compounding process, if you give it enough time, those low returns are giant returns still, but you're not going to lose. And then there's this bucket called what most people call growth bucket. I call risk growth because it's really risk first. And on that I'm taking bigger risks for potentially greater rewards. And now the question is, how do I balance these? Am I 60, 40, 50, 50, 80, 20? And that's designed really by three things. Number one, what's your real risk tolerance? Not what you think it is.

Yeah. And they're never the same.

They're never the same. I do these wealth mastery programs in years and invariably I'll do some crazy thing like I'll say, every stand up, make change. They look at me and go, make change. And they start reaching their pockets and they can change. And so somebody will pull out 5 bucks and 10 bucks and somebody pull out $100 and they'll. Someone will come up and they'll take it and Give them five bucks. And they're like, you know, they don't know how to react. So this goes on for three or four minutes. The music's going on. I go, okay, stop, right? Sit down. And they go on like, I'm talking about something else. And, you know, invariably somebody's like, hey, wait a second. I want my hundred dollars back. So what are you talking about? They said, I want my hundred dollars back. The game's over. I said, what do you. What do you think the game was over? Do you think the game had ever gone over? Right. And who said it was your hundred dollars? And it's like, it takes a while where they finally get, you know, I'm stressed about $100. What do you think is going to happen when you lose a million or half a million or 100,000 or 10 grand? I mean, your risk tolerance is not what you think it is. So when you find out what your risk tolerance is, and we got great ways to do that in the book, and then you figure out, really, how much time do you have? If you're younger, you got more time to make mistakes, and so you can take bigger risks. You know, you got timeline on your part. And then another next piece is, how much is your cash flow? What's going to be the real flow? If you look at those three things now, you can decide how much goes in my secure bucket, how much goes my growth. And if you don't make that decision, it's the most important investment decision of your life, according to everybody I interviewed. Like, what percentage secure? What percentage growth and risk? Then when things come up, you're always going to go for the growth risk. So it looks so sexy and exciting, and I can't tell you how many people over the years have done this. They're telling me, why would I put money over here when I've got this real estate I'm making 120%. I have a friend that built some of the first big condos in Vegas back in the boom time. And he actually went through my programs, sold the business. He had made $200 million invested in these condos, started building the panorama towers and places of that nature, and he was up to like 3/4 of a billion. I kept saying to him, dude, take some of your growth money and put it in the secure bucket, right? How many times I told you this? He goes, tone, I love you. I made $200 million because you. But now I'm really like, what I touch goes to the gold. I'm listening to his ego And I'm going, I love you, brother. But I said, you know, many times I had this conversation. And then guess what happens in 2008. How much do you think he lost? He was worth three quarters of a billion dollars. He'd grown that rapidly in those short years. What do you think happened to his net worth?

Oh, I'm guessing it went down according to the Ray Dalio prediction.

How about minus 400 million? He didn't just lose what he had, he lost everything at and beyond. So then he's trying to negotiate.

So he was leveraged.

He was leveraged out, wiped himself out. So most people don't put enough in the security bucket. As the lesson, a guy like Dalio provides you a strategy that's got great sustainability. But there are many approaches in the book. But you do have to decide how much is secure, how much is growth. And I show you how to do that in the book.

I would emphasize, at least I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, Tony. But for me, it took me a long time to think, to realize what investing represents for me. And it's not maximizing return, it's maximizing quality of life. And there's a big difference.

Yes.

For me at least, I have a very kind of barbell strategy where I have super, super safe stuff and then the startup stuff. But I need to modify that. I want to modify that because it's not currently all seasons at all. So for people out there, I think who might say, I don't want to think about it, I would just emphasize that you're making decisions every day about where you allocate your time, your money, your resources. So whether or not you want to call yourself an investor, you are an investor.

Totally true.

If you make no decision, that's also a decision. It's important to become literate, I think with a lot of these basic concepts, which is not difficult.

One thing about that, people need to remember that everybody's a financial trader, but most people are making a bad trade because they're trading time for money. Worst trade of your life because you can't get more time. We all know it. So what this book will do, if you're willing to just give yourself a chapter a day for a month or go crazy on a weekend, you'll go from maybe not even knowing what these terms sound so complex, to being juiced because you'll be an insider, you will look at the world in a totally different way. You'll go, that is the biggest rip off on earth that'll ever happen to Me, that is where I want to go. And you'll make some decisions and then it's not an everyday thing. Literally, you might do rebalancing once a year for 15 minutes. I mean, unless you're going to be a trader every day, this shouldn't dominate your life. But when did you give yourself the initial education? About one of the most important areas of your life. There's only a few areas that really impact the quality of your life. Your body, your emotions, your relationships, your finances, your career, your business, the spiritual side of your life, how you use your time. About a half dozen or so, maybe seven areas that really affect you. But most people major in minor things. They know so much more about shit that doesn't matter. So I'm saying to people, give yourself the gift of just a short burst of time so that you can truly look at life and be good at this area. And if you want someone to do it for, you can. But at least then you lead them. You're not being led by them.

No, definitely. And I think that just like one of the things that sort of changed my world in startup investing was any company you invest in should be able to return the fund just as like a general the amount of money that you're investing over X number of years. And just like the sort of $1 to $5 principle with Tudor Jones. There are a couple of pithy heuristics, like rules of thumb that I think will change how you view not just money or stocks, but the world in general, such as assume in the Dalio case that your favorite area, your pet investment bucket, is going to decrease by at least 50% in the next X period.

50 to 70.

50 to 70. Even better.

70 will get your attention, that'll get.

You attention and plan accordingly. And I think that it's been a very, very fun process to read this and also to connect with you over it. Let me ask if I could, because I know you've got a lot planned and I also want to finish up the last few interviews in the book, reading the ones that you did. I'm curious if there are any particular funny stories or what was the funniest story or interaction you had while researching or writing this book that comes to mind?

Well, I think to share one of them already. I think it's funny now. It wasn't until Funny in the moment is walking at Carl Icahn's office, so excited, so prepared, ready to rip open. Because this guy, he's got the greatest returns of anybody out there and very Few people know that Kiplinger did the first review that really showed all the numbers. I mean, if you'd invested in him in 1968, you'd have a 31% compounded return within his firm versus at Buffett's firm, you'd have a 20% return. People think of Buffett as the ultimate guy. So I got these facts, figures. I'm excited. And to have him literally throwing my video crew out the door and then telling me no audio, and I'm like, how the hell am I gonna keep up with this guy? Capturing the nose. So that'd be one. A fun moment was introducing Carl Icahn to Jack Bogle. They didn't know each other and they're fans of each other. So it's like I came from being an outsider to now introducing them. But most of the time with these guys wasn't as much funny as it was fascinating. It was just seeing the level of the. They play the games, like with a great poker player, you know, they know the psychology, they know the numbers, they know the probability. And you just realize why most people are never going to win because you know, they're not going to win gold medals against these guys that are playing this game day and night, night and day, you know, so some of that isn't new to me just because Paul's been my dearest friend for, you know, 21 years now. But it's. It's fascinating to see that in every. In every industry, in every sport, there are a few players that play at the highest level. And they have one thing in common above all else. Hunger. But it's an unquenchable hunger. You have that hunger. I see that in you. That's why I'm a fan of your work. It's like you're gonna keep finding the answer. It doesn't matter what answer. You gotta want to know more. And every one of these people has that. And it's fun to be around them because there's energy in every one of these people. They have different styles, but there's an energy. And that energy is driven by that desire, that hunger to know more.

And the other observation that was reinforced by reading the book was that they also, they have principles, they have operating systems that they use. And whether you are trying to lose weight, trying to quit smoking, trying to improve your investment returns, you can insure against your lesser instincts by having a system and putting systems in place. So that when you have the impulses that are going to lead to your destruction or eating the cupcake when you shouldn't eat it, that you can mitigate against that. And it's possible you can set these things up in advance. I would love to. Before we wrap up, just ask a couple of rapid fire questions.

Sure, go for it.

Okay. When you think of the word successful, who's the first person who comes to mind?

Gosh, I like Richard Branson. I don't know why that's the first thing popped in my head when you said that. Only because I think he lives so passionately. He lives life on his terms. There's no bullshit with him. He's having a good time. He's close to his family, lives on an island like I do. I guess I like to. But he's extraordinary leverage and very conscious man about society and what to do, his elders program and things like that. He's very socially conscious and yet still has a great time. So he'll be one of the first people I think of probably.

What have you changed your mind about over the years? Any positions you've taken that you've. That you've reversed since you don't have.

To be perfect in everything you do, including not eating anything enjoyable. Be a big one. My wife would tell you. Gosh, you know, over the years there's. You're always updating. I mean, I don't look at it as changing as much as updating and informing myself. You know, if you thought of it as changing, I think you'd find resistance within your own consciousness or your own identity. And you know, identity plays such a strong wall. The need to be consistent with what you believe. And that's why the political system is so messed up. You know, somebody can actually grow and they're seen as inconsistent.

Yeah.

Oh, it's a mess. It makes the political system not grow. It makes the system locked in place. I don't look to think it comes to mind just real directly. But I think there's a constant upgrading and sometimes it's those two millimeter upgrades that provide the biggest impact.

Side note for folks, it's also common among the top venture capitalist investors. Marc Andreessen, who created the graphical web browser. One of his mottos for Andreessen Horowitz is strong opinions weakly held. He's ready to be corrected or update, as you mentioned. What would people be surprised to know about you?

Oh, gosh, you should ask my wife that question. I don't know. Some people would not be surprised at all. People in my events would not. I'm a love bug. I'm the kind of guy that I Can be brought to tears by seeing someone do the right thing. Just. And yet I'm, you know, I'll run through that wall, shake the building with 10,000 people in it. I'm a softie, really, truly underneath it all. That's what drives all this in me. I love to see people lit up. I love to see people happy. I love to see people freed.

So I'm going to ask an unusual one, given that answer. What's the first face that comes to mind when you think punchable?

Punchable? Oh, my gosh. Well, I had an interesting meeting with President Obama. It was actually interesting. I was invited by Marc Benioff to come. It was for, I don't know, 15 of billionaires there in Silicon Valley. I was in San Jose, and it was for the president. It was before the second election, his reelection, and I voted for the president. You know, so I've been a fan of the president, but I was getting more and more frustrated by watching the style of politics, which was, you know, creating greater and greater division. And there seemed to me a great level inaccuracy and the promises are being made that very hard not to see. And at that time, it was the whole thing, we're going to raise taxes on the rich, and that's going to balance the budget. And I've done the numbers. I did a whole video on it shows you can kill every rich person in the United States and take all their money and take all the corporations and all the advertising from the Super Bowl. I mean, I do this whole long gig that came from some statistics another man put together for me. But I did it together. And you can't cover the budget for one year, and then what do you do next year? Right? And so I said to Mark, I said, listen, I support the president, but I said, honestly, I don't know. I can support the other side, but I don't know that I'm a guy to be there. I don't know that I'm a fan. And Mark. And I said, mark, you and I are so aligned in so much. But. But the way in which, how Simpson Bowles was this close and he let it pass, we had both sides willing to make some tough decisions is beyond me. It lacks the leadership that fundamentally the president of the United States in my mind, has to have. That's my judgment. I'm just a person, but it's like, I don't understand. Taking the easy route is not something that's going to sustain or grow this economy long term. And I said, and using the political capital, even though I'm supportive of health care, using that health care, where half the country is upset about it and pushing it down their throat and trying to say it's gonna cost less money. I mean, it's just like there's certain things. So Mark says, I agree with you. I agree with you. And Mark is the second largest fundraiser for the president. So I said, well then how the hell do you raise all that money? He goes, well, cause I feel stronger about him than the other guy. And he said, and you and I are aligned with him on so many other things about the environment and people's right to marriage, regardless of their sexual preference. And I said, of course we are. So he said, come. Come and be there. I said, you know me, I'm totally respectful, but I'm honest. He goes, come. He said, I'll sit you right next to the president. He said, and we'll have a great conversation. So I went to this meeting and it was crazy. I mean, I've worked with so many presidents over the years, but I've not been with Obama. And it's downtown San Jose. They locked everybody in their buildings. And literally, you know, it looked like one of those movies, you know, when everybody's died and there's nothing left but the buildings. It was the wildest thing for several blocks. Took us up in this room. There's nobody else seeing. There's these 16 people, many of which, you know, from Silicon Valley. And I listened and President came in and was really wonderful. And he shared, you know, some comments and said, I'm not here to give a speech. I'm here. You guys have built the biggest companies in the world. And I'm thinking, not me, I don't fit that category. And so I wasn't going to say anything. He said, but I really want to hear from you guys. So Mark turns to him and says, well, are you ready for some real give and take, Mr. President? He said, yeah. And he goes, okay, who wants to go first? And he points straight at me. Friends are poor. So I said, Mr. President, I said, I've paused. I literally paused. I shouldn't do this. I'm not here. They both paid a quarter million bucks to be here. Actually, I'd never done this before. I went thousand, one thousand, trying to see if somebody else is going to say something. I said, okay. So Mr. President, I said, I really want you to know I voted for you. I know you're a man of tremendous integrity. I share the same values you do, I believe. But I said, I'm really confused about two things. Number one, how you think you'll be able to have a, you know, a second four year run and get anything done when you have taken the other side and demonized them to a point that they're never going to work with you. And my second question, if I ever get one, would be, why didn't you support Simpson Bowles? Right? I said it was right there, it needed to be done. And you know, he's long pause and he said, well, those are fair questions. And he said, first of all, I don't think I've ever demonized the other party ever. And I just sat there and I watched him say it and I was like, are you kidding me? I'm not a Republican. But come on both sides of demonizer. And he goes, and they've been really unfair to me. And he went through this piece And I said, Mr. President, that's happened with every president to be fair. That's what they both do. And it's gotten worse throughout the years for sure. I said, but what about Simpson Bowles? And he said, well, Tony. And everybody does a research about who's in the room. The President knew. He goes, well, Tony, your friends, your hedge fund friends, he said, you know, they wouldn't like it if we got rid of the 15% tax they could do and they wouldn't. And he goes in, most Americans wouldn't like it if they got rid of their mortgage deduction and all those things. And he said, I got a better plan. I said, the better plan is you're going to raise taxes back to Bush on the wealthy. And I said, it takes $4 billion a day to run this country. And you know as well as I do the estimates of all that money in won't even cover three months of this government spending. So it won't solve anything. You're going to have to raise taxes on everyone to cover this. And I said, so how do you deal with that? And so he and I went back and forth and to be fair, I'm telling my version of the story. I'm sure he'd give you a different version of the story. But there's a point where I felt I'm losing rapport with every person in this room. But I had to be honest. And finally at one point, the Secret Serviceman came over and grabbed my wrist. He said, I think that's enough. And the President's, I didn't raise my voice. President's, you know, to honor him. He said, no. Tony's created Some creative tension here. And he said, I'm not used to that in these rooms, but he said, it's fair question. I said, you know, Tristan, I just want to know because I voted for you and a lot of people I know that voted for you. I don't know if they will again. I don't know if they need to. You're going to win anyway. But I'd really love to know what to tell them about how you're going to govern with this level of division. And so at the end I just said, well, thank you for your time. And then everybody else got up and like, will you give a shout to the Jews and things like that? There's no hardballs in there at all, but you know, it's a political environment. So afterwards I thought, oh my God, everybody's gonna hate me. And then Reid Hoffman walks up to me from LinkedIn and says, I can't believe you asked him that question. I can't believe you asked him that. He said, I've been wanting to ask him that question forever. He said, that was good on you. And I go, people coming up to me give me a boo. And then the President came around and when he came back around, he went to shake everybody's hand, shakes my hand. I shook his hand and I grabbed him with both hands and I pulled him close to me. I said, Mr. President, I said, I'm not some stupid Republican who's just looking for some tax break. I said, you know, this week I fed a quarter million people in San Jose. I don't live here. I came here to do an event. This is what I do wherever I go. I came from nothing. And I don't forget where I've come from. I care as much as you care. But I said, I'm really concerned about your ability to get your agenda done in the next season of your career. If you don't find a way to bridge your communication style with these people. Intelligence is not enough. You've got to build relationship. And he stared at me and he said, how about you? We're into my chief of staff and you come visit me in the White House, you and I, one on one for an hour. I was like blown away. I thought, you know, I didn't reach him at all. It was mind boggling. So Mark was right. There he goes. That was unbelievable. That was. I love that, you know, Mark, love. I love seeing that, that energy back and forth and you can really help. So then about a week later, they were getting ready for these debates and the Other side called me and asked me if I would work with their particular candidate privately. And I'm not one side of the aisle. I want to see a debate that's real. I worked with Mr. Romney and that's the first debate they went in and he did pretty well. And my invitation was no longer extended. So I wouldn't say punch in the mouth, but I'd say frustrated because here's a man who has such integrity, President of the United States, and I think a classic human being who cares, deeply smart as a whip, but it's, you know, the failure to find a way to bridge compromise is both sides responsibility. But in my mind as a citizen, I think the president, United States has got to make that happen. And their presidents have done that and presidents that haven't. And I think it's not his fault, but we're at an impasse politically. That is not allowing us to do the things that I think are necessary for our, you know, put our house in order in this country and easy for an outsider to see it. But as a citizen, we all have a right to opinion. So I don't know if they punch, but I'd say shake him. Metaphorically shake it. That might be a better one.

Wow, that's a hell of a story. One last question, and I think people are really going to enjoy this. And I can't wait to see the comments and the questions.

Also.

I have my moments of doubt, dark moments. I don't know if you have those moments of doubt yourself anymore. Never. What do you do when you have those dips, when you have those down moments?

Those moments I've experienced primarily when I found an inner conflict that's hard to resolve and that has been in the past. When I'm traveling around the world, I feel like I'm made to do what I do as a human being. I'm certainly not the only human being can help people, but I'm able to help a lot of people. And I feel it's a privilege and it's a gift and something that's earned and something that is part of grace. And yet the greatest thing in my life outside of my work and my family is my wife. And ironically, when I met her, she had extreme motion sickness since birth. And I spent almost a decade going everywhere because she would throw up on we never want to be apart. And she would throw up on the flight up and on the flight down. And she literally lost. I don't know, it was 19 pounds, which she couldn't lose. She was a size 0. I took her to every type of physician. I took her to every kind of natural healer, acupuncturist. I took her to NASA. Tech expert there, nobody's able to help her. I took her to the guy who works the top gun pilots because if they lose their Venus stibular system, they're dead. So he had the system and he was the only one who could help her, like maybe 10% of the time, not throw up. But the process, she did this. Tightening her body created a constriction of lymph fluid and she developed a tumor. And so the darkest days are, you know, what I think I'm made here to do and is hurting the person I love most or I gotta be a part. And you know, corny as it sounds, I just believed that there was a larger lesson that I need to find a way to break through. And we finally did. And she no longer. She doesn't love motion, but she no longer throws up on any flight. It was, ironically, an experience in India, which sounds so bogus to me, but I experienced it. And she's never thrown up since that time. It's mind boggling. It's this man who's. He's not of any particular faith. It's called oneness. And he does this form of meditation work where it basically primes your brain to a certain way of being, and it balanced your body out. Just amazing. But the point of the matter is, I went through all this pain, all this questioning, all this doubt, but I kept asking what's right, what's real? And I trusted my gut, even when it was painful to trust my gut. And I found that that's probably the most useful thing. The other thing you got to do is. Sounds stupid. Hydrate your ass off. Make sure you rest. Because in a lowered state of energy, you'll doubt everything. And the worst thing can happen. If you are what I call energy rich, if you are physiologically at a peak, you can slam anything against you and you'll know. And so that's not to say you won't have those downs, but that's what I try to do. Put my body back in the strongest place. That'll put your mind back there. Your heart is always there. And then ask what's right and live it. And you're going to still make mistakes. And when you do, I think it's being forgiving yourself and learning from it and moving the hell on to what's next as quickly as you can so that that experience allows you to help other people. And for me, the worst events I've ever gone through in my life have always been the best events because I figured if I'm experiencing this, someone else is too. And if I figure it out, I can help millions of people. And that's given me sanity. So I'm not just dealing with my pain or bullshit or whatever the case may be. And that's a big part of my life is ending suffering, which is impossible, but ending it in areas of people's life is possible. And you know, as like I always say, it's corny, you know, you know, suffering is optional. Pain, pain, you know, everybody's got pain in their life, but suffering is optional. And I really believe I can help people get out of that. More importantly than get out of suffering is to give them an experience and more of the joy that's already inside them. And I live to see that light in their eyes. And I'm going to look forward to seeing you at some point at event because you'll have an experience of it and it won't be this discussion. Discussion's wonderful. Experience is 10 times better. I always tell people, you know, a belief is a poor substitute for an experience. Right? You can believe all you want about what you think something is or investing is or what China's like. We go to China, get an experience, go to the event, then you'll know. And I'm a big guy on put people in the experience as quick as they can and let their spirit and their heart and their soul kind of take over. And that's what my life's about.

It's a good mission. It's an amazing mission. Where can people learn more about the book, more about you? Where would you like them to visit you?

I'll give you an address, but they can go to tonyrobbins.com that's the easiest way. And the book again is called Master the Game the seven Simple Steps to Financial Freedom. And what I'll do is I'll give you a site and if people decide to do this and they go to Amazon, if they'll send me the receipt, I will give them something I did for people during the pre publication period, which is I made three videos that are kind of a fast track. So if somebody's going like 600 pages seems like a lot to me. Well, here's this will get you going. I think for a lot of people the audio video approach is a good approach to them and then it'll take them deeper in the book. But I do want you to know that Most people, I don't know if you're experiencing this. Most people read the book, are entertained, because it isn't just like some heavy factual piece. It takes you on a journey and it's a journey through financial world, which is wild, weird, crazy stuff happening. It's a journey into the lives of people that started with nothing, that are the wealth of healthiest people in the world, how they did it, and your own journey about where you're going to take yourself from this point on and how do you want to live that life and experiences that you want to not only have for yourself, but what you really want to give. And, and that's the greatest thing I, I look back and you think about money. Money is nothing but a tool that you either use for a life of service and a life, increase the quality of life for yourself and the people you love, or it's used on you as a weapon. And I'm big on saying time for it to no longer be a weapon used against you. And the only way to do that is educate yourself. And you can do it in a way that's really fun. And that's what this is.

Oh, absolutely. So, guys, check out the book. Check out Tony. Tony, you've had a huge impact on my life. And just to the entertainment aspect of the book. I have tons of books sent to me, I mean dozens a week, as I'm sure you do, Huge stack. A lot of the questions that I asked did not require me to read the book and I ended up pushing off probably a half dozen important projects of mine because I got pulled into the book. And I remember I emailed you and I said, you know, it's been 20 years, you still have it. Hot damn. Like I that feeling, the sort of the Tony Robbins response that I had reading your material back in high school and I remember you emailed me. You're like, high school? How old are you? It's a really fascinating read and I know some of you listening are my friends who are deep in the world of finance. You will find things, whether it's in the interviews at the back, the profile, some of the top performers over the last several decades or within. It's a really fascinating romp with lots of good stories. So, Tony, thank you so much for taking the time.

Thanks for coming down. Great to meet you in person finally.

Definitely hope it's not the last.

All right, well, thanks. Thank you.

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