https://www.listennotes.com/e/f12b896972954ed081ed2687dfc85872

Hi, I'm Natalie Bitature and I'm here with my dad, Patrick Biteture, and this is our podcast.

Why this generation, this new generation, whether it's X, Y or Z are so wobbly. You're so soft. You don't deal with the real issues.

You're always whining because the older generation thinks these guys can't handle it. They're too young. We don't respect young people culture. Boulder is always bitter. So there's a bit of a.

Your story will be different from mine, but for you, who I am isn't your life. When you say life, just superficial. Just because you said good morning to somebody, does that mean you are life?

You know, relationships is an important one, but you have to like balance all of them, is what I'm thinking.

What is life? And how do you first of all understand what life is and then say, because of work, it's a trade off. What did you have to do? Hello there, my name is Patrick, Patrick Vidaturi. And today during this episode, we're going to talk about work life balance. That's something that's a bit of a misnomer. Many people don't understand what work life balances because it's really hard to excel in one area of work and also excel in being a good father, a good husband in your personal life. So I'm fortunate to have with me my daughter, Natalie Bitature, who probably knows a bit about work life balance, more about life than and less about work. But let's see how this episode goes and I hope you'll enjoy it. Please give us feedback because it is interesting to know your perspective too. And I'd like to begin by asking Natalie, is it really true that you can get a fine balance between work and being a good person? Because most people think if you are rich or you are very successful, you must be a mean, evil person. Now getting it right to be a down to earth person, a good father, a good husband, a good neighbour, and yet you're successful in life, does that really ever exist?

Of course, I would say yes. It's something you have to aspire to be. I think no one is ever perfect, but you have to be intentional. It's something I've grown up around and I've noticed a lot of rich people are really mean, they're ruthless, they don't look people in the eye, they don't have time and working as much as I do. I can understand how that can happen because you just start doing things and you don't Care. I remember a point in my work career. I wouldn't say good morning to anyone. I would just, like, start, have you done this? Where is this? Have you got this? Because you're just going, going, going the whole day. And then I realized, these are human beings. These are people you work with. What's more important than the work is the relationship you have with each other. Because then you have better work. It's better for the company. Small things like saying please or thank you or good morning or how are you? You know, it. It slides things. And I had to be proactive about it because of time. But I think to be a good person, you have to think about what a good person is and what that means to you and what's important to you. I remember at my Forbes party that you gave me, I had to first thank everyone, but also apologize because I've missed so many weddings, birthdays, events. Your child did this just because I was always at work. And it made me realize, what is life if it's only work? Covid has really helped me with that, because all these other things in your life are also important. When my work was taken away for three months, oh, my God, it was the scariest, weirdest thing ever. But I was grateful I had some relationships that I had cultivated and kept. But you can't just assume people will always be there for you. If you don't check on them, if you don't take an interest, if you're not involved in their lives, then why should they be there for you? And then what is your own life? So I think to be a good person, it's about how you impact the people around you. Your community, your family, your friends, the relationships you have, your colleagues. And then be kind in your day, have compassion and be proactive about being that. Because otherwise your humanity can just be taken away. If all you're thinking about is work, deadlines, profits, your focus is on the wrong things. So I think because I swung so hard in the work side, I had to swing more to the life side. But it's always challenging to find a balance.

Now, for you people who are young, your story will be different for mine. But for you who are young, isn't your life, when you say life, just superficial? Just because you said, good morning, somebody, does that mean you are life? Is that life greeting the staff. Life has got to be a lot more than that. It's got to be deeper. The interactions of life, the new generation. You are so driven by the superficial. What you see on social media, how you are seeing what people think about you. The real you doesn't really come out the humane side. Many of you don't go to church. That's a spiritual life. Many of you don't do charitable work. You don't have time for people. I see people on the traffic lights when you come to traffic lights and people coming around for money. Yes. I'm not encouraging these young people come looking for money, but everybody's windows up and they're on their phone. What is life? And how do you first of all understand what life is and then say because of work, It's a trade off? I had to trade off. What did you have to trade off? What do you think you're going to trade off in the future? You see where you are now. You've not had time for, for settling down. You're not thinking about marriage. Most girls at the age of 20, they want to settle down. You've got to have a husband, you've got to have children. But you are just focusing on work, work, work and career. But at the end of the day, there are certain things you can't do backwards. So where does that leave you? What is your perspective?

I think you're right. There's a lot of sacrifice. I think you have to think about it as work should not be something that you're working for your life. So many people live for Friday or live for a holiday. They are just grinding through. They don't like it, but they have to do it because you need the money. And I understand that. I just think when you think of your whole career, it would be nice to also do things that have more impact in your work so that your work and your life are not so separate. So you're having life at work. Something as small as saying good morning to someone, you look at them, you see them, you notice. Are they in a good mood? Are they upset? Are they happy to see you? Are they worried? There's so much you can tell from that. And I think for me life is more about human connection and human interaction. And it's something that can easily be sacrificed. I remember when I called you and told you about the honorary PhD. That's the first thing you said. This is why you're not married. You're just working, working, working. More awards, more awards. And it was funny because you were happy for me. But you could see I kept going down this work path, which also sacrifices. But when I look back, I don't regret it because at my age I have so much responsibility. I've learned so much if I had stopped to have kids when I was 25. Kids take up a lot of your time and energy. It's wonderful and it's also life. But you have to understand the balance and where your energy is. As I'm getting older, I don't have as much energy for work. Work, work, work. So maybe I'll settle down soon so I can take a bit of a break. But you always have to trade off something. And I remember I listened to Shonda Rhimes TED Talk, and she said she has kids and she's like a very powerful producer. She writes, she does so much. She's the creator of Grey's Anatomy. And she said the problem is if she's winning at work and really killing it and doing so well, it means she hasn't seen her kids for a few days. It means she's sacrificed time with them. If she's her kids and they're playing and they're having fun and they've gone on holiday, it means she's not doing her best at work. It means she's neglecting that. And she got tired of feeling that pull and that push. So she actually wrote a book called the Year of Yes, where she said yes to everything. When the kid wants to play, you do it. When you need to walk, you do it. Just keep saying yes and see where you land. And I like that perspective because you go with the flow. You can't dictate. This is work. This is life. Life is messy. My life. Work never stops. My phone is never done. Whether it's night, whether it's morning, whether it's the weekend, I can't say no. And you are like that as well. So I grew up in a household of work and life together. Our family spends time talking about business at dinner on Sundays, we go to sites to see businesses. We're always in that mode of work and life together, but we're joking about it, we're talking about it, we're taking pictures of the places we're at. So we always find a way to, like, live that way, so I never really saw a problem. And because you and your wife work together, your kids work with you, your life and your work are so intertwined. So I just assumed my life would be that way as well, so I didn't have to be proactive and think, oh, I need to get married. Oh, I need to make time for my friends. It's only after I turned 30 and I started to see. See the gaps in my life or how much work had Taken up that I thought I need to be more intentional about these things.

Intentional. I have been to too many cohindas whose functions of giving away somebody's daughter. I've never had one in my home because they are chasing degrees and prior success, which is wrong. Now when you talk about me, I made time. I took almost a year off when I was quoting your mother to focus that am I choosing the right partner? Like how you choose a partner for business? I need to understand the person. I literally stopped working for one year. Courting her, be with her all the time. Morning, evening, what is she doing? Studying her. Take her around the world so that by the time you marry, you've chosen a partner for life. And that was taking time off because I was trying to find the right balance. Then I got the partner. There you are. Now I'm off to work. I started working. You deal with the children. I've got to work. By the time I was 40, I'd had the children and I thought, that's done. Now I've spent time, a bit of time I was trying to balance so that when the kids wake up in the night, you also wake up in the night. You have to look after the kids. Sometimes you do the night shift, you feed the kids, you put them to bed and you give her a chance to sleep. And it took its toll on my work. I felt I was losing out because we're like in a race to hit by 40, you've got to have made it. So by the time I hit 40, I was about there. But I felt no more time. Now the kids is really in your department. I've really got to consolidate on my business. I've got to travel the world, I've got to work a lot harder. Got to be in Kenya, build business in Tanzania, go to Nigeria. And I started working really hard. Then I realized many of my friends who are extremely wealthy and I'm not talking about people like Steve, Bill Gates, Sudangote out there, I'm talking in Uganda. They're very rich people. Nearly all of them have got health issues. At the age of 50, either had a heart attack, a stroke, a triple bypass. Their family is broken, they've had to divorce. There's a trade off and a very strong trade off so that the family life is broken because you wanted to succeed. So you can only keep balancing it to a certain level. To become extremely successful, you've got to trade off the other. And then you create a gap between you and your wife, you and your children. And you think throwing Money at them, do this, go and travel, go shopping, you solve the problem. And I saw this as a general trend all over the world. And it had come home to Uganda. Even the rich men were not so formal. The guys who owned the shopping malls, the guys in Chikubo, those who became extremely rich started having problems, either marital problems, family problems, fights within the family. They build shopping malls and they are competing. And their names, they become household names. The wife has run away to America. This one has done this. These are the issues that were happening then. I had to realize we've got to slow down. We all want success, but at what price? You don't want success at any price. You've got to take a step back and look for your partner and hold her hand and look for your children and be there for them and start doing things. Yes, it may mean less revenue delegate. Hire managers, get expatriates. If you don't have local managers to run your businesses so that you can spend time with your family. Now I thought I was getting it right to balance it. But even now, despite everything I've done, I feel that it's been a huge trade off. The family has suffered so much because I was chasing success, not just personal success. I wanted now to do things for my country, to contribute to the country. You become chairman of this, you become an advisor here you want to be in government, you want to be in different positions, playing a role at a national level. All those things take the toll on your family life because they take time away. We've only got 24 hours. 24 hours. You're going to sleep for eight hours. Eight hours is for your personal life, for exercise, for dinner, for lunch, for whatever you do, and only eight or ten hours for work. Now you can't do all the things you're trying to do and then also be able to be a good father, a good husband. So I don't believe that you can actually have true balance. There's got to be a trade off. When you enter a long term relationship, you've got to know that there's going to be a trade off. And you've got to choose how high you want to go. The higher you go, the bigger the trade off. Very few cases up there. Even our Mr. Geek, who we thought was Mr. Perfect, Bill Gates, eventually divorced Jeff Bezos, divorced Steve Jobs. Quirky life here in Uganda. I don't want to mention the names. Everybody seems to have a problem. So this thing of work, life, balance, that's why I called it a misnomer. It doesn't exist. It's a myth. It's really hard. But then it doesn't mean that there's no happiness when you're successful. Very many people can be truly happy and successful. And you've got to find your own happiness. And your own happiness must be the happiness of your children, the happiness of your family, the happiness of your extended family, your brothers and your sisters, your mother and your father. That is happiness. That is success. That is measured in a different, different currency, but it's a priceless currency. Money is one currency, but this other success is different. So when I take my extended family home, even if it's only once, twice, three times a year, to a place like Ibanga and we are together, that is priceless to me. That is happiness because we come together. There is love, there is unity. And that's a different currency. It's not the shillings and dollars and euros. It's a different currency. And you see, in Kenya, many of the very rich families are broken. In Tanzania, not as bad, but also they are there, and they are broken. In Nigeria, they are broken. Does the wealth have to divide every family? What is there? What kind of advice can I give you, the next generation, so that you don't come to this delicate life? Balance, work, balance, and don't get it right. What do you think you ought to do? Over to you?

I think for me, always being intentional makes a difference. Because first you have to be aware. A lot of the times you just keep going and you don't realize what's happening. And then it's good to also have mentors and see, like, how you started to notice the broken marriages around you. Right. So for me, I started seeing my friends getting married, and I started seeing how much time they spend with their kids and how much slower they became at work. They still have careers, most of them. Some of them are even trying to do more. They're doing different things. You're doing businesses because you also have more motivation and more pressure. But it changes how you are. It changes your perspective, it changes your priorities. And you have to learn what you want to sacrifice and where you're trying to go. Cause everything takes some sort of effort or some sort of plan and some sort of push. So I think when you start to take stock and look around and notice you have to have your own parameters of what you can manage. Because what someone can tolerate, what someone's goals are, what their dream is, or what their definition of success is, is not the same as yours. If we all try to chase the same exact balance. We won't be happy. You have to find the balance that works for you, a system that works for you and your life. When I was working 14 hours a day because I'm in a hotel all the time, and then I decided I need to also spend time with my friends and family, it started to take a toll on my health because I wasn't sleeping enough, I'm not eating on time. I'm just trying to do everything and be everywhere at the same time. So the balance is not only, like, the relationships in your life and the time you spend on work, you need to spend time on your health. You need to spend time on having fun, on reading books, on going to places and, you know, keeping that wonder and discovery alive in your life. Last year, one of my friends explained to me a concept he learned called the wheel of life. He's like, if you write down the top 10 things that are important to you as an individual and give yourself a score from 1 to 10 in each category, imagine they're all wages in a wheel. But if that wheel has, this one is 10, this one is 2, this one is 6, this one is 8, it can't roll, it can't move around. Would it you rather have things that are important to you, not someone else's standard? And then see, how do you put effort every day into those 10 categories in your life? And it's something that really touched me because I was always trying to compete or compare myself to other people. So I found myself. This one has three kids already, but this one, his business has already reached here. This one has this, but this one does that. So what is the actual success? And you kind of get pulled in different directions. So now I have that. My top 10 categories, it's on my notes, it's on my to do list, it's on my desk so that I see it every single day. And don't forget what's important to me. Not get caught up in a race with my friends or with this other company or. Or you're competing with this business, or you're feeling bad that, oh, I don't have three kids already, I have to see the things that are important to me and make sure every day, am I putting in that time? Am I ticking those boxes? Have I spent this whole week I've been at work, I have not called anyone, I've not said thank you to anyone. I've not spent any time out of that. Have I had enough sleep? Am I looking after my health? There are so many different things to balance. And it actually reminded me, remember once at a Thanksgiving mass for the family, you said there are, like five balls in life that you have to juggle. I can't remember what your five balls were, but it made me think of that. There are 10 things that I'm always having to, like, move around and juggle and play with to make sure I don't neglect one so much that I've become so unaware and I've worked too much, or I've spent so much time away from work because I was trying to, like, spend more time in relationships. I don't think I can take a year out of work to find a husband. I don't think I have that capacity or. But it's one of the balls I'm trying to juggle out of the 10. You know, relationships is an important one, but you have to, like, balance all of them, is what I'm thinking.

Some things you've got to do in the right time. That's why it's up to you. You've got to live your life. You've got to find your own happiness. You can't live my life, and I can't impose what makes me happy or you. You've got to live your life, and I've got to give you space to work things out on your own. I can give you guidance, I can give you support at the end of the day. Now, you talked about the five things, the five balls I talked about. I'm happy to share them because I asked my family, what are the five most important things in your life? Now, everybody begins with number one. God. God, God, everybody. Jesus. I love Jesus. Jesus was around 2,000 years ago. You never met him, you never saw him. And you all love Jesus, number one. And God is your first thing in life. I say to you, are you ready to forgo everything else so that God is number one in your life? The Pope does that. The Catholic priests do that. They choose not to have children, not to marry. And that's a very tall order. People think it's an ordinary thing, but from a science point of view, your primary reason on Earth is to procreate. Number one reason why you are on earth. You want to see an image of yourself in something else, in somebody else. That's why they say God made man in his own image. Even God made man in his own image. He had his son. So for someone to forgo not to have children because they are committed to God, they are very few, they are not many. But then nearly everybody says Number one for me is God. So I question that. And I said, maybe it is. And that's how you feel. And your title says so, but it's not a reality because you're not ready. Number two is family. When I say to me, mine is family, number one is family. Why? Because if your child doesn't have a kidney, are you ready to sacrifice your kidney? Yes, because you have another one. You take a chance and live off one kidney, but give your child a kidney because you are the right type. You sacrifice without too much hesitation as a parent for your own child, but you won't give it somebody else. That's why family is so important. If they wanted your right arm and that's what you used to work, and they'll cut it off to spare your child's life, would you sacrifice your arm? Yes, you would. Some people would, some wouldn't, but I would. That shows you that famine is important. That's how you choose your priorities. Now, would you sacrifice your hand because of the Bible? Someone has told you that, go and Jesus wants you to sacrifice your hand. I don't think many people do. Many people are told to tithe. They don't even give the tithe. They told, okay, make a small contribution. They put a coin. So these are some of the things that make you question humanity, especially the life of living. But nearly everybody asks, the most important thing to you is God. And we thank God first of all. But how did that. That's another question and I won't go into it. People are entitled to their opinions. Next is friends. People live without friends, some of them. But many people need friends because they create a support mechanism for you from childhood. You've got to have friends, friends that value you. These are people who are not born from your mother, but somehow you made a connection and you've gone through life together. And some friendships last for a lifetime. Some of my friends from primary school are my best friends still today. And that makes a difference. That's why you say you value friends. A friend is getting married, he's in Australia. You get on a plane and you find the money. You don't have that much, you save. You've got to be there to stand by this person from Australia because it matters to that person. A friend dies and I see many of us when someone dies, oh, I've got to go for the burial. Even sometimes you go for barrier of people who you don't know sometimes because that just shows. People just love this thing. Especially in Uganda culture. I don't want to make fun of it. But you've got to choose your priorities in life. That's why when I ask my family, what are the five things that matter? These are some of the things. Another one was health. If you don't have good health, you can't live a life. You can't succeed. You can't be prosperous. You can't do the things you've got to do. If somebody's got to amputate your leg so that somebody else can live, a member of your family, would you agree? Only for family? Maybe. But you'll not accept it. So you need to be healthy, and you do anything to be healthy. Because you can't be bedridden and live your life bedridden because of money or because of something else, because of work. So you've got to put these balls all in order of priority. Family comes first, maybe health comes second. And friends come here. Then maybe money. Because many people say the most important thing for me is money. Money is maybe a fifth or even a six.

Six.

Money is important because without money, it's very hard to make yourself happy and to make other people happy. Money gives you freedom. Money gives you independence. Money gives you ability to do things differently. Your perspective. You can call the shots. You can make donations. You can change a school, you can contribute to a church. When you've got money, that's the importance of money. Money is just a currency. But don't let it own you. You've got control. So money is right at the end. So when we talk about the important things, that's what I was talking about. And don't make money too important. But then money has destroyed too many lives. When you come to work, life, balance. How do we get it right so that you're not just driven by money? And you remember that in the first place you went out, you need to make money so that you can marry, so you can protect your children, so you can raise them, put them in good schools. But money is not everything. Money can destroy you. So getting the balance right where you are, a good father, a good husband, a good neighbor, a good member of your community, a good member in your country, getting that balance right is tricky. And some people have got to make a sacrifice. That was my perspective. But it's not about me. It's more about the next generation. Because the majority of people in Uganda are younger than me. They are your age and below. What do you think?

I like that you've explained it. Because I have grown up around this, so it makes sense to me. Because I understand your priorities and your values, and I also appreciate your integrity. Since I've started working, when I go places, no one has ever said something bad about you to me or I've never heard about it. Whether I'm filtering through the comments on your Facebook or if when I worked as an intern and I didn't know I was your daughter, people only say good things about you. No one has a story that he was terrible to me, he was mean, he screamed, he cheated, he lied. And that's something I really appreciate because I think it's really rare. Unfortunately, it makes me sad because life has become such a dog eat dog eat world. Like people are sharks, people are mean, people step on each other. Even to see among my own friends how we will compete and someone will say this or do this to get a contract over their friend, it shocks me because that's not how I was raised, and that's not the integrity I was raised with by seeing you do these kinds of things. But the more I grow up and the more I see that, I realize how you have to really try to be those things. So many people say, oh, I'm such a religious person, but if you see how they behave, it just doesn't add up. So I think that's why it's important to define your own measure of success. Be honest about it. Like, we do need money. For me, that's one of my 10 priorities. Because you I understand the value it brings and what doors it can unlock and what things it does for you. So there's no point in saying, oh, I'm not chasing after the money. I'm a good person. Be aware and be honest with yourself. Even if you never share your list or your five priorities or 10 priorities with someone, I think from the young, the younger you are, the sooner you think about it, the better for you. So that you know, this is what my success means to me. This is what balance and life is to me, and this is how I'm going to live it every day. When we were in Ibanda over Christmas, I was sitting with my cousins who are younger than us, and I was doing my reflections of the year and assessing what went well, what didn't go well, what do I need to do better next year? What am I grateful for? And one of them started flicking through my notebook. So I asked her, She's 16, have you thought about your funeral? And she looked at me like, what? But it's an exercise that I've done before with different coaches. And I told her, think about when you die, what do you want people to say about you? What kind of a person were you? What impact did you have in the world? And so the others who are even younger were like, that's so weird. I'm like, yeah, but think about it just for a minute. It's not some morbid exercise. But when you're not there, what do you want people to say? Was she kind? Was she fun? Did she make a lot of money? Did she build this? Did she do that? And they sat there and they had answers. And I was like, you see, the good thing is now you know that's what you're trying to achieve. So now in your everyday life, in your school and you. When you're choosing what to do at school for a degree, when you're meeting people, remember that that's what's important to you. You can't say, I want to be remembered as a kind person and you're mean to people every day. You can't say, I want to be remembered as a rich person. But you're not working hard in school. You're not trying to start a business. You're not understanding financial literacy now. So the two have to, like, add up and be in alignment so that you are moving in the direction that is speaking to you in your own purpose. Because we all get pulled in other directions comparing what this is, what success means to my parents. So I have to do this degree, I have to have this job. Your parents are not there with you when you're suffering through it. One day they'll be gone and you'll have this whole career that you didn't want. And you're not living in alignment. You're not living in alignment with who you are. So I think being authentic to yourself is also an important part of work life balance. Because it's too easy to say, this is what good work ethic is, or this is what good life balance is, or this person works too much. Look, they never do this. Are you that person? You have to decide for yourself rather than spend time judging others. And then make sure you're in alignment with yourself. So you're aware I'm working too much this week. I haven't seen my kids, or I've spent too much time at parties this week I've neglected work so that you keep yourself in check and you keep your own balance. So I always encourage women. You have to try and have it all. That's your burden to bear. You have to see, what can I live with. I remember reading the CEO Of Pepsi, her book. And she said once her kids told her, asked her why she never comes to school for the PTA things for events. Other mothers, the Indian lady. Yeah. Indra Nui, her kids were like, other mothers come to the school, they participate in things. And she's like, I am not other mothers. I made that choice. She had to explain it to her kids. I'm not going to pretend or lie to you that I'm going to start attending your school events. Mommy has to work. There are lots of people who rely on me at work and I need to be there so I can afford the school you're in and I can give you the life that you have. And. But she made that decision. She wasn't going to be made to feel bad by other mothers because she can't attend everything. She knew work was a priority. And you know, with Indian families, you live with your in laws, you live with your parents. So she had a support system looking after her kids. And I really respected that because that's the first time I wasn't feeling like it's a bad thing to work and like to put work ahead of your kids. So I think for women, you have to also know your sacrifice. Sometimes it will hurt you if you don't know your kid's favorite color this week or the nanny is the one telling you they don't want to eat this. But would you rather have the career and you're the one getting the promotion, or would you rather be at home and know everything about your kid and spend that time and it's okay when the man at your office gets the promotion? Because unfortunately, that's the reality we're still living in. There are some workplaces, some organizations now that are being more flexible. They have daycare at the office. Mothers can work from home. There's flexi time come in two days a week or they give you projects instead of this nine to five. So there are ways that we are trying to adapt, but I think the major problem is the men are not adapting. And that is the reason that the women have all this burden right now. If you read Sheryl Sandberg's book Lean in, she's the CEO of Facebook. She's one of like the pioneer women in Silicon Valley. She's led such big companies. And she said the most important choice you're going to make as a woman in your career is who your spouse is. Because you're either going to have a spouse who comes home after work with you and is asking, where is dinner? The kids haven't bathed. Where's this? The laundry. What's going on? Or you're going to come home after work and he's also going to be helping. He's going to be doing homework with the kids while you make dinner. Or he's going to be making dinner while you're looking after this or cleaning up. There's either or. And she said if you don't have a supportive spouse, you'd rather have no spouse because it's going to kill your career. If you're expected to burn on both ends, it's just not sustainable. I've seen so many people try to do this and it's just heartbreaking. They're trying to do everything for their kids and be there, cook dinner, look after the husband, look after the house, look after the kids. The kid is sick. You have to leave work now, you're in trouble at work, yet you're expected to work and contribute that salary to that same household. So I think the burden isn't with women. The problem isn't with women. The burden is with us. But the problem is with men. If you expect us to be in the workplace with you, doing things, helping you, achieving, being your bosses, then we expect you to do more in the home. We have to let go of this old patriarchal thing of I'm a man, I don't enter the kitchen, I don't do childcare, and that's your department. Because it's impossible. You're asking too much of us. The world has changed. A generation ago, women were not working. It's fine. We're at home all day. We can't complain. We're with kids, the house should be clean, you should always have food. No problem. But now, if you are a man who works and there's women in your office, think about what you are doing in the home. Are you doing as much as that woman in the office is doing? Because I bet you the answer is no. That's what has to change. That's what's holding society back. Because women have so much potential. We can do way more than raise kids. We have now shown there's scientists and astronauts and businesswomen and artists and philosophers. Our minds are very capable. At least now we've reached a level where we know women are not dumber than men. But the problem is society hasn't adapted. If women are doing more in the workplace, men need to do more in the home so that that balance can be achieved. Or at least we can be living a more fulfilled life where women are not Burnt out and drowning. Expectations, obligations, judgment from in laws. You have to be more reasonable. We have to adjust what men are doing. And the perspective of men.

Wow, that is very powerful. A generation ago, in the 50s, Europe was not ready. Europe had the same dilemma. Today they move forward. Are we going to follow that particular pattern? That route of Europe where easy come, easy go. They marry today and they divorce tomorrow. They are all equal rights. They have those challenges. That's the problem I'm seeing. Because we want to evolve, but we've got to evolve with a mold of our own. In Africa, where our culture fits in, our society embraces it. India is trying, it's beholden in some areas, but still you can see very many successful Indian women going to the top, but not enough. And scientists and doctors, especially in that area. In business again, it's the men that excel in the boardroom. It's the men that excel even in Europe and in America, it's still the men that dominate the boardroom space. So we are going to evolve in Africa slowly but surely. I'm worried that you are in a hurry to change the system quickly and embrace the western ways without seeing the downside of the western ways.

In Western countries they have two kids at most. These days, populations are on the decline. When you have so many kids, it takes a lot more work. You can't ask a mother of five to be working full time and looking after kids and being at home. It's just unreasonable.

Who's fault?

And they are trying and they're pushing. It's the culture and that's why the culture has to shift. And I agree, and that's my other point. I think we are a good example because I think you have done more in the home than the average African man. I remember my granddad would not enter the kitchen. If he needs something, he would stand at the door and say, I need a teaspoon. Because according to the culture he was raised in, men don't enter kitchens. It's a kataboo, you know, I've seen you make tea, I've seen you make eggs. Mom can leave us for months and you'll look after your four kids and we will all be alive on tea and eggs. But we'll survive. I would leave you with a baby and I'm not worried he's going to forget the baby or drop the baby or not know what to do with the baby, you know, And I've grown up around that. You're like that, your brothers are like that. And I think it's also what helped you treat me like a boy. That's why I can work the way I do. Other girls in their families are treated like girls. You should be at home, you should be washing clothes, you should be learning how to cook, you should be getting married. How many families were going to let me work the way I work and be unmarried at my old age? I think that comes from you. And I think we have a good step. You know, mom still does the majority of the household and you do the majority of the work. But I think we are a step ahead of the traditional African culture. So it's a good example to show it's possible and it's okay. You know, Bill Gates started picking up his kids from school and it changed the culture in their school because other mothers told their husbands, if Bill Gates who is making more money than you can take time to pick his kids and drop his kids, really, you should also be trying and it helps. That's why we need to see this. That's why when UN women asks you to be an ambassador, it's me pushing. Yes, yes, I know you believe in women. How many managers and CEOs in our companies are women? You value us and our minds so you understand. So other men need to see that if a whole man like Bitter Turek can allow women to do this or can look after his kids, really who are you not to do it?

But there are many examples. A man like Barack Obama is a model to look. So he was a total man. He was the first African president of the first world, not just the president of America. And he used to get up every morning at 7am he made it a routine. He'd have his, he'd do his exercise and then have his breakfast. And he set up a particular structure habits that he'd. A routine he'd work with every day before he goes to work. And before he goes to work, before he has his breakfast, he check on his daughters and that made him feel a father. And then he got very busy, especially when he was a president with what he was doing. So there are many examples of people who have excelled and they have formed a structure of some kind that I will do this and set aside time for my children, set aside time for my wife and then I've got to focus on my work. And when you are working you're single mindedly focused on the work. But when you're with your children, it is single minded focus with your children. You give them all. You're not there with the children while you're on the phone while you're talking to your friends, while you're trying to cup a deal. And that balance, getting that balance right. In Uganda today, some families I respect and I took a leave from them so that by 8 o' clock you do not answer your phone and people to ring you after eight. It's offensive. You are encroaching on your family time. Don't you have a wife to call? Spend your time with your wife, spend time with your children. Don't be calling people in the evening. That's family time. You've got the whole day to work and chase business. But come 7 o' clock if you're a businessman or 5 o' clock if you're working, that's time up. Your work should stop there and you spend time with your family. Get that balance right now. It takes discipline to be able to form these habits, to give these structures and you, the younger generation who are hooked on your mobile phones. I don't know if you have a life and live a quality life, but I think I'd like to ask you, what is your parting shot? What would you like to say about work life balance?

The work life balance is a huge myth. You have to be realistic and you have to be ambitious. At the same time, what are you striving to achieve? What do you want to achieve in your work, in your health, in your family? What are the things that are important to to you and how are you going to achieve those things? And be clear about it. Don't just say, oh, I'll have good relationships, oh, I'll have good health. How are you going to make sure every day or every week or every month, you're putting in time in the areas that are important to you so that at the end of the year, at the end of five years, of 10 years of your life, you can see the balance that you had. You can live without regret. I didn't take care of this. I didn't see this person enough. I didn't do this much at work. You need to be authentic and in alignment with what is really important with you and what your own definition of success or work life balance is so that you can achieve it or at least be striving to achieve it. Just to be on that journey and to be working towards it is a lot. It's more than enough because you keep evolving and you keep changing and you keep growing. But as long as you're being intentional about what are the different things that you want in your life that you're not looking over your shoulder. This one has a better house, this one has a better wife, this one has a better car. You have the things you want or you're working towards the things you want. I think that's how you have more fulfillment in what you do.

Nathalie Mituray, thank you very much. Work Life balance is a very personal decision. You've made your choices. I hope they are good. Hope they're the right ones for you. Good luck with them. All of you out there, make your choices. Work life balance is not easy. That's why it's called a balancing act. Getting it just right is not easy. It will always be hard. But I'm sure if you set your mind to it and set aside sometimes think about it, you will achieve it. Thank you very much and I hope this discussion has been useful to you.

Sam.