Joe Jonas ON: The Fear of Failing & How to Find Courage to Leave Your Comfort Zone

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I want you to write a letter to yourself as a kid and I want you to think of that age. And then I wrote a letter to myself like, oh yeah, you know, like it's okay to like be a weirdo. Like if you get picked on for that, that's cool. One day those guys are gonna come to your concert. And then I wrote a letter to myself as an adult, but as the eight year old self and I couldn't get through the letter. I mean I'm bawling, crying, ugh I have the letter framed in my house. It was just such a great reminder to be a kid at heart and not to be too hard on ourselves because we're all big kids at the end of the day trying to figure this crazy thing called life out.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, I know that you're listening because you want to be happy, you want to be healthy, and you want to be healed. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, eight Rules of Love, is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book. For you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to 8rules of love.com. it's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love rules. Go to jshetetour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. And it's not always that I get to do this, but I try and sit down with guests that I have really deep, meaningful relationships with. And I like to share that with you because I find that when these relationships develop organically offline, then when we bring them online, usually after a couple of years, you get to experience something special. You get to hear two friends talking. You get to hear people not scared of being interviewed. You get to hear me not being confused or flustered about where I want to go. And I really hope that this interview is going to do that for you. I'm speaking to someone who needs no introduction. I'm speaking to someone who I absolutely admire and respect on so many levels. You're going to see that throughout the interview. And I'm speaking to someone who became one of my dearest friends without meeting him during the pandemic. I'm speaking about the one, the only Joe Jonas. One of the kindest, sweetest, most down to earth humans I know. There is not a bad bone in this guy's body. He's given me memories that will last a lifetime. And so grateful that he's finally on on purpose. Joe, wow.

Thank you.

Welcome to this show.

What an intro.

It was from the high.

I need you to introduce every show from now on. I would say nicest person I know.

I'll do it. Let me be the voice of God at your events, please.

We have a show tomorrow. You can do it. I'm so thrilled to do this, honestly. Your podcast has been on my top listens every week. Life changing. And it's interesting how I've quite. I'm kind of late to the game. I discovered Jay Shetty a bit further along in my meditation journey than most. When we first met was via Zoom. Actually, the first time we met was in front of like thousands of people online. And then we didn't actually meet in person until probably a year and a half, two years later.

Yeah.

My brother met you twice before.

Yeah.

Nick met you twice.

Yeah.

So I was quite jealous and I was like, maybe he's not. Maybe he's not real. Maybe this is an AI version of this person that was created. But glad to say you're real. I'm glad that we've become so close and you've been so helpful for me on my personal walk with whether if it's the Brujonis brothers to personal things I'm going through that I've expressed with you. And on a bigger scale, just like the days that we live our lives for everyone else and how I'm able to function like a normal human being when I go home at the end of the day. So it's been really helpful. So thank you.

No, and I want to give you some credit for this because I think a lot of this stuff happens behind the scenes and people are unaware, especially with someone like you. You've been popular and famous for so much of your life and you know, there's so much written about people and so much you hear about people and there's so much you don't hear. And I think in my line of work where I get to see the behind the scenes of a lot of people, I like to be able to share that because I think it's important. So what Joe's talking about for anyone who's listening or watching back at home is what we did this charity event thanks to. And I wanna give a big shout out to David Johnson. Right. Cause David. Yeah, David Johnson. Yeah. Cause David knew that David felt that we would connect. And we did this event for we day and it was Joe, Lily Collins and myself, and Lily and Joe were hosting and I was asked to teach a meditation. And literally seconds after this meditation finishes live online to thousands of people. I get a message from Joe, like, probably literally in the next couple of hours, saying, hey, I'd love to do a meditation like that for my friends. And I'm like, cool, that sounds great. Let's do it. And I thought nothing of it. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. He obviously enjoyed it. That's great. Love that. And so we did it. So we set it up for that Sunday. I think it was Sunday.

Right.

And he set up a zoom link. He sent me a zoom link. And we started this thing. And, like, maybe. I can't remember how many people joined. The first one.

The first one was probably close to, like, six or seven people.

Oh, was it really? Okay, right?

It was pretty intimate.

Yeah.

If I'm. If I'm correct.

Yeah, yeah.

And then cut to, you know, after the first few weeks, more people started to join, and there was always the same 10, but for sure, sometimes it was like 30 people were on the zoom.

Yeah.

And all different walks of life, people from all over the world, obviously, when we're in proper lockdown and a lot of things were happening in the world, it was really the best thing to have at the end of your week or the beginning of your week to just get together and meditate with people and then have a discussion whether people. And you were so kind, and you've still. We still do this, so you're still so kind to take time out of your crazy schedule to answer any questions or even give advice. And sometimes it's just an open floor to talk and express how everybody's feeling. And it was so helpful for me. But it's also, I think, really been a wonderful experience to give back to all my friends and. Or at least to be able to present a comfortable place where they can just be themselves and talk about their emotions and not feel embarrassed about it. And it's been incredible.

Yeah. The impressive part to me, though, was. And obviously you gave me beautiful friends and family and people like Greg and, you know, Vanessa Hudgens been on the show. I met her through the Zen Zone. She talked about how she met Cole through the Zenza.

Cole, her boyfriend. Her now boyfriend, who played. Played for the Pittsburgh Pirates for years. And my good friend Christo invited him one day. Chris, of course. Of course.

Yeah.

So he invited him one day on the Zoom. And then. Yeah, then Vanessa met Cole through this zoom. So there's been, like, romance that's come from this, but it's really special, and I'm glad we kept it up. And obviously, everyone's Life kind of got back to normal, but we still wanted to do it. I saw a few people last week and they were like, when are we doing it again?

We have to do it again.

Obviously, it's become, like, a norm for us.

Well, that's what I was gonna. The impressive part. And now we'll put a bow on the bromance and start getting to an interview. Everyone who's been listening. But the most impressive part is that we did it for 75 weeks. Like, I think when I calculated, it was like 75, 85, maybe even did a few more. And I think it's that level of consistency that I admire in someone like you. You know, anyone can do one and anyone can be, like, inspired for a week, but to be inspired. And through our conversations, I've continued to see that. Like, to be inspired and consistent with something for that long, and then to inspire a. To do that, it requires someone really special. So I really am so impressed by that. And it became the model of how I work with so many people, where I realized that you taught me that you were like, hey, just don't make it a one on one. Like, bring people along for the journey. And so you. You really inspired me in that way. Thank you. And I. And anyone who ever asked for a meditation, I started saying to them, make sure you invite your friends, because Joe did this thing and it inspired me. And I genuinely think it's changed the model of how I work with people.

Well, I feel like, like, as well. You know, what I miss so dearly was just that connection of being around my friends, obviously everyone and family. And I was also getting tired of these zoom parties where you're playing games and you're like, all right, this is not happening. This is not working for me anymore. So the idea that you feel on an emotional level, you can connect with people. And also there's accountability of, like, you kept your camera on and your audio on, so everyone was able to be actually meditating with each other and feel that difference. Because we know how it usually goes when you're in a zoom meeting or party, like, half the time you're hitting the mute button and camera's off and you're doing something else, or you're on a bicycle while you're doing it. So it was nice to be present and do it.

Yeah, let's get into it, because I really want people to hear about your journey, especially your personal growth journey, the journey you've been through as an amazing husband, a father. Like, just, you know, this incredible growth journey you've been on. And I think for people who've known you for such a long time, I remember coming to your events last year, and you've got all these new young audiences. Then you've got audiences who've been with you for all these years. When did you start realizing you wanted to work on yourself? Like, when was that, like, a idea or a thought, a seed? When did it start?

There's been a few hurdles that I felt like I probably need to take care of myself physically, mentally. I think the biggest one that comes to mind, many years ago, I released a solo album, so I did a record alongside with my brothers. We kind of all started to feel like we had separate personal interests professionally. And I made an album that I'm really proud of. Now I like it even more than I used to. I think at the time, there was a lot of cooks in the kitchen, and when you're, like, performing at the level that the Jonas Brothers were back when. And, you know, it was just chaos and craziness and number one albums, and the song would break records on YouTube and things were happening in real time, you kind of think, like, all right, this is the norm. Like, this is gonna happen for me too. And I think that's, like, obviously a really bizarre thing to even think about. But that started to become, like, okay, anything we touch, I think it's gonna really take off. And I had kind of a wake up call when I released this album, and it didn't perform as well as, say, the brothers stuff. And also forgot that the years and years of hard work that we put into the brothers music to even get to a level where that many people are listening to our songs. I took it really hard, but I didn't realize how I actually felt in the moments. I figured, okay, well, I'll just get back on the road and start promoting this. And I had, like, a bit of, like, a lifespan with this album. I knew that the next brothers project was right around the corner. So I had about a year and a half to really focus in on this album called Fast Life. And I was here in New York after the album was out, and it didn't really do much and started reading reviews, started seeing the reactions, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I started feeling, like, physically ill. And I really told myself, and I believed that I was sick, so I would go to the doctor. I started going to the doctor, like, every other week. And then it became, like, every week, and it was almost like a joke with my friends. We're like, oh, Sunday Funday, Joe's going to the hospital again to get a checkup. And I would do like full body checkups and look at the doctor and be like, doc, you gotta like, all right. I would do ultrasounds on my stomach. I would. It became a thing where it was comical because I'm like, I'm a hypochondriac. I'm just overthinking these symptoms or creating this in my mind. And one doctor finally just said to me, they're like, have you thought or spoken to a therapist? And I was like, me?

No.

Why would I ever need therapy? Life is great. And it kind of just hit me after I left and I was like, oh my. Like, oh my God, maybe they're right. Like, the doctor's like, I have all of your results here from the last like three visits. And you have nothing wrong with you physically. Like, you're, you're in great health. But obviously there's something going on. And she's like, I'm. I would think I would. This is what I would suggest. So, sure enough, I started seeing somebody and I was like, oh, this is, this is why right before that window where I started speaking to somebody, I was here in New York and I'd go on these bike journeys and I would ride my bike from like 8 in the morning to 8 at night and stop along the way. But it was like an escape for me. And I wasn't able to look at my phone. I wasn't able to think about the album. I was just kind of checking out. So I was like, still running away, avoiding the problems. But I thought this was like, oh, this is what I needed. The minute I got off the bike, I'm feeling sick again. And so I started talking to therapists and really dove into all of that pain and trauma that I created for myself. And it was weird that it stemmed from something as simple as, like, oh, the album didn't do as well as I thought. Which you think, like, it's not the biggest deal in the world, but I think in my brain I was pushing myself so hard and I had these expectations really set high that brought me into the walk of therapy and then the walk of meditation with you. And I mean, that's years and years later, but that's how I started kind of saying, okay, I think I need to take care of myself. And I'm not this 15 year old kid anymore that can just run, run, run, run, run and be fine.

Yeah. And it's, it's amazing, actually. The other way around, too. I don't know if you've ever thought about it this way, but it's like you said, like, oh, I shouldn't have maybe felt that bad that this solo album didn't do so well. But it's like, how old were you when you did the solo album?

It's probably about 21, 22 years old. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like you're still a young adult. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Figuring it out, you know?

Exactly. And you're still. And that's what I wonder. It's almost like going away from something that was a surefire win to try something new and potentially out there and risky and moving away from like a, you know, tried and tested formula of the brothers actually requires a lot of courage. And most people try and hang on to what's tried and true and would be scared to do what you did. And so I think there's also a lot of, like, yeah, it took a long courage.

Come to that realization. Those, like, trend words flash in your brain. Like, I saw a headline like, ooh, failure. And I took that word, and that was my identity with that album. And years later, I was like, what? I wouldn't even listen to the songs as well. And years later, I started listening to them again and obviously going through the work and realizing that, like you said. Yeah. That journey, that leap of faith to actually do something else rather than just be pigeonholed to, like, this is the comfortable place. This is the breadwinner. I'm good here.

Yeah.

I was like, all right, I'm taking the leap of faith on my own. And that's a big enough. It doesn't matter how many people listen to it, if everybody loved it, hated it, whatever, doing it for me. And I lost touch with that. Yeah.

But that commitment as well, Even at that early age, when was it you started to see a therapist? It was around that same time, right? 21, 22. 21, 22, yeah. That commitment to that truly working on yourself in a reflective way, like, that's. That's a big deal. Even at. Even at that age, like, to accept that you need help, then to find help. What was that like for the rest of your family? Like, how was other people reacting to it? Because I feel like today, when people try to seek help, often it's in. And I met your parents. They're absolutely wonderful. I've met your brothers. They're wonderful. Like, you know, I've met all your partners. I don't think I met Kevin's wife that I've met. You know, both your partners. Yeah, yeah, I know the. I've interacted with the family, and so I'm like, I can imagine that they were positive towards you, but what was it like initially? Like, how does that feel like to your parents?

I think, you know, our dad has been the most incredible person to go to with pretty much anything. I mean, he was a minister for many years, then he was our manager for a good amount of years. Then around the same time, it became like, dad solely again, which was actually great because we had. I had, like, my dad to go to about stuff. But, you know, when you start that journey of, like, seeking outside help, it is. I think, as a parent, it'd be a little bit. It's gonna take a beat to realize, like, oh, you're not the only one that can give advice now. But also, I get it. I think my parents are really mature in that sense where they respect medical professionals. So I think if the person has the degree to be able to give that advice, then I think that they're gonna feel more comfortable. I mean, there's been people that I think I've gone to for advice that my dad was like, I'm raised my hand and say, this is my opinion. I don't know if this is the right person for you, but let's find somebody with, like, a couple doctorates.

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. That's good advice. Yeah, no, you bet. Your parents are so sweet when I.

Met them because it's so easy to, you know, find anybody.

Yeah.

Like, Google the closest therapist or person or life coach or whatever it may be. But to actually have somebody who knows is key.

Yeah. I love what you said, though, about how, like, you're, like, you know, I had to realize that the brothers had spent all these years building something, and then obviously, you were trying to do something on your own. Like, how has your personal creative process changed since then? Like, how have you adapted since the first round of the brothers to doing your own thing, to now doing. Yeah. Like, how have you changed that?

Well, it's changed quite a bit. I feel like with dnce, I had. And for those who are listening or watching, I'm in a band as well with my brothers called dnc. We have a song. Cake by the Ocean was our first song I wrote for the band with Justin Tranor.

And great song.

Thank you.

Great on stage.

And that song and the way it took off actually was the first bit of feeling of, okay. This other style of Music that I really love to create. I can also pursue and follow this butterfly and see where it takes me, because I can bring this back to the brothers. So I've been able to go on my own and I think grow as a writer and a producer and creator and have that time and then bring it back and it's really great. Now we have such respect for our individual ways of writing and producing. And when Nick and I wrote our most recent album, we had like two different rooms going. So Nick was writing something with somebody and I had another room going. And we kind of like brought the best of's and then came to the table and said, here's what I'm thinking, here's what I'm thinking. And then we like, kind of worked together. We used to just argue our way through songwriting sessions or everybody wants the chorus. You know, it's like, I want the chorus. My voice sounds great on this. And we're like, oh, I really want to sing this, because I kind of think it relates to something I'm going through more. And that was just like. Now it's quite nice that we're meeting each other really at the same place. You know, we're all fathers. We're all in this great place where, like, it's not like one brother's like, trying to find the next yacht party and one's like, tucking the kids into bed. It's like we're really actually living the same place in our lives. And that makes a huge difference when it comes to the music, I think.

Yeah. Yeah.

And the new music, it feels that lyrically and we can actually tell this grown up story and that's essential.

Yeah. That's so exciting to hear, actually. To hear about how if you're working in a team, when you're in a similar place in life, often there's a bit more empathy, there's a bit more understanding, there's a bit more.

I think it's. It's comparable to like any career path.

Yeah.

I mean, if. If you're writing a film with a good friend and one wants to write a love story, the other is like, no, I want to write a war film. And that's. That's. That there's going to be no love in it. It's like, definitely gonna be tough.

Yeah.

And so I think we felt that when we wrote songs, it'd be like, one person's going through a heartbreak and the other was like, well, I just started seeing somebody. It's like. And I know that's really on the Romance front, but those heads butted.

Yeah.

Also, I've gotten the opportunity in the last couple years to write music for film and tv. And I love putting a thinking cap on of somebody else. So playing it, I'm thinking, as the character.

Yeah.

What would they feel? And what. So everything. During the lockdown, I wrote a song for an animated film called Rumble about, like, wrestling monsters putting on a thinking cap of, like, all right, what would they sing about?

Yeah.

And then just recently wrote a song for the film I shot last year, Devotion. The director, about six months later, asked me if I would be interested in writing end credits songs. So I got to write with Ryan Tedder and Harv, who wrote. He Was Born with the writers on Peaches for Justin Bieber. And I got my buddy Khalid a part of the song. And that was a really special experience because I also got to think about what it was like for the main character in the film and his relationship and how it was comparison to my relationship. And people that are just away from their families and friends a lot and just that feeling of, you don't have to feel like you're alone. I'm always there for you. Whether if it's spiritual or mentally, it takes that mindset.

Yeah. I mean, that was a lot of the crew for Devotion. They were the ones that were part of our Zen zone. Right.

It was cool. It was really special. Yeah. I mean, actors. At least the actors I've run into. Meditation is so key on set. I mean, when you're having. Even if it's like a split second where you have to get into character and just take a second and get it and be like, all right, where am I? Where did I just come from? And it may sometimes be a little conversation in your own head. And I found it immensely helpful in scenes. Some of the tools you've given me that I keep in my back pocket and I use, whether if it's on stage or I'm about to hit a terrible golf shot, I can think about breathe in four times.

Golfers. Yeah. I can't improve anyone's golf game. I can't even improve my own. So that's. Yeah. My meditation doesn't. Someone told me meditation and golf were.

There's a book there.

Yeah. It doesn't work there. When I get good at God. With Masterclass, you can learn from the world's best minds anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. You can learn songwriting from John Legend, entrepreneurship from Richard Branson, or even learn the power of personal branding, from Kris Jenner with over 180 classes from a range of world class instructors. That thing you've always wanted to do is closer than you think. Each class is broken out into individual video lessons, usually around 10 minutes long. You can explore at your own pace and each class is supported by downloadable materials, class guides, recipes or more. Sessions a new product from Masterclass allow for a deeper dive into the lessons over a month long period. Sessions include projects to submit to a teaching assistant for feedback as well as the opportunity to learn alongside a community of peers. Masterclass is available on iOS, Android, desktop, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV and Roku. Now, I don't consider myself an artist, but I honestly find it fun and relaxing to learn new things. So I recently checked out Devon Rodriguez's class on how to draw and paint realistic portraits and I was blown away by the depth of knowledge I could get in less than 10 minutes. Seriously, how many different shades of colors are there? I highly recommend you check it out. This holiday, give one annual membership and get one free. Go to masterclass.comonpurpose today. That's masterclass.comonpurpose terms apply. But tell me about that transition because I think like, you know, I've seen you on stage, you're a natural performer. I always tell you, like I see these pictures come out and like dude, you just remind me of Freddie Mercury, who I love, right? Like who I love. Like Queen was my favorite band growing up and and so any footage I've ever seen of watching Freddie Mercury live is just unbelievable. And so that comes very naturally to you. You've done it for a long time. What was it that even gave that shift when I heard you were acting and because you'd just for everyone to realize too, you'd be on set like you'd be in all these random locations, then like logging into Zen Zone on your phone and like. But what brought that transition about? Like where did that impetus come from? Or like where did that excitement come? Sometimes you just need to go to your happy place. And there's no better happy place than celebrity cruises. They get you closer than close to the history, culture and flavors of Europe. And now they visit more of it than ever. Their elevated Caribbean escapes keep the island bliss going between islands. From quick three and four night getaways to week long journeys and longer, there's nothing more restorative than the wild wonders of Alaska. And celebrity ships are designed to make the most of every view. Celebrity doesn't just build ships, they build the vacations you'll always remember in the places you'll never forget. Book today and see why nothing comes close to celebrity cruises. Hey, friends, quick question. How do your nights feel? Hatch believes the way you wind down at night shapes how you show up the next day. Self care isn't about doing more. It starts with resting better. That's why Hatch created their Hatch Restore, a smart sleep clock that helps you reclaim your evenings, think calming sounds, gentle audio, and even a surprise wake up to start your day right. Check it out at Hatch Co. Because better nights lead to better days. Hey, everyone, Jay here. And as much as you listen to me, you ought to listen to your body. Little things like headaches, hair loss can be your body's way of telling you, hey, something's up. Do you hear me? I will not be ignored. Luckily, Amazon One Medical has 247 virtual care. So they're always there to listen to your body. Thanks to Amazon One Medical, Healthcare just got less painful.

Yeah, well, when I was much younger, I always wanted to act. I always wanted to, like, I always put on a show in our basement. I had the Joe show and it was like a talk show that I put on and imitated late night talk shows. And then there was a popular TV series on Nickelodeon called All that. That was like a kid's version of snl and I wanted to be a part of that show. I was like, these kids are allowed to be wacky and fun on tv. This is amazing. And then years later, you know, doing stuff with Disney, we did Camp Roc and we always like, dabbled in film and tv and I had opportunities along the way, but music was always my main focus. And that took up a lot of time and the limited amount of weeks or months of the year that I was making an album or it was a little bit quiet season. We're still like, we're still working. And not until really the lockdown, where I saw an opportunity of time and started auditioning and having conversations. I had a conversation with jd the director of Devotion, which I just straight up told him, like, look, I know I'm not the first choice. I get that simply because I don't have the credits to prove that I can do this. But I will work so hard for you. I will prove to you that I can do this. And I sent myself a tape in and it was a life changing experience. I mean, I'm lucky that I'm a part of a film like that. Or I should say, I'm very grateful that I'm a part of a film like that where I'm surrounded by such great Talent and just soaking it up. I knew day one, showing up on set. Jonathan Majors, who plays Jesse Brown, one of our leads of the film. I mean, he was in character at the table read in his flight suit. And I was like, oh, okay, this is. This is real. Yeah. And I just felt so excited to just learn. And it's a bit addictive because when you have somebody that is that in character all the time, it rubs off on you. So, like, all the other guys, we started dressing in 1950s clothes. And then we started, like, afterwards. I still was shaving every day. Like, they were in the Navy. I just, like. I loved that aspect of it where you really try to dive in.

Yeah. And you were working out a lot, too, right? Like, I swear during that movie, you're like, well, all these.

I'll tell you what I showed. I showed the day the fitting was. I showed up to set and I saw all these photos, mostly just, like, shirtless photos of these actors. And I was like, oh, I need to get. I need to get. Like, I thought my two days was enough. And he's like, I gotta. And they're, like, looking at their ages. And I was like, man, this guy's like six, seven years younger than me. I was like, all right, I gotta keep up with these kids. But, yeah, it inspired me to, like, work out. And we did a lot of military training where we were, like. We were doing group runs and, you know, just working out on set a lot because we're just sitting around. And I think that's why meditation really came in handy. Working out came in handy on set. What they don't tell you about being in these beautiful films is that there's a lot of downtime.

Yeah. A lot of waiting around. Yeah.

And if you're not number one or two on the call sheet, then you're probably just hanging out and waiting for them to be like, we need you in the background. So a lot of time spent. And I was just like, built a little workout. Yeah. I built a gym in the back of my car, essentially. And I just would. And I had a shower, so if I got sweaty, I would just shower in the trailer and then get ready again. And meditation. I mean, we do Zen zones on set. We would do these zooms where we did meditation on set, and it was really amazing.

Where did that work ethic come from for you? Because that's what I was talking about earlier. Right. Like, your discipline, your ability to apply your mind, your consistency. Like, those things are not always common because, you know, especially when you're being artistic and creative. Sometimes you need spontaneity, and you sometimes just have, like, an artistic moment, but you've been able to balance the two. Like, where did that work ethic develop? Like, how early was that? When did that. Was that from parenting? Was that from the brothers? Like, where did that come from?

You know, I. I chopped some of it up to my. My parents, they worked really hard. I mean, I watched it didn't really click. My dad, he was very much in debt, putting his energy, focus, money into the brothers. When we started, I mean, the guy was like, three, four jobs. He was driving every day from New Jersey. You drive us to the city to record a song, drive us back means like, an hour each way, if you're lucky, and there's no traffic. And then on weekends, he's a minister. It's just like, juggling a lot of hats and also catering to, like, an entire church and their stuff. So some of that. And also, I think just when it comes down to it, I just want to keep pushing myself. And I also am so grateful that I get to do what I love for a living. Every day I wake up and write a gratitude list. And on that list, it's usually one of the top four things is I'm grateful that I get to do what I love for a living every single day. Especially when there's so many people out there and there's so much music constantly coming out. And on the acting side, there's so many great actors out there that are constantly. You're seeing. And to be a part of a film like that, or to have music pop up on Spotify, New Music Friday, or wherever it may be, I'm like, I am so immensely grateful that I get to do this and continue to get to do this. And that makes me want to work even that much harder, because I don't want to just say, okay, you know what? The brothers are big enough. We're playing these big venues. We're like. It's like, great. This is a nice paycheck. You'll see me every year, guys. It's like, no, I want to. Like, how do we make this? Like, how do we make the music better? How do we make. Or bigger? Bigger, meaning, like, sonically. And how do we. How do we connect more with our fan base and where they're out in their life because they're growing up with us and they have. And it feels so great when we can listen to the music and say, I'm so proud of this because it connects on so many different points. And why being a part of a film like Devotion, emotionally, a beautiful true story and other things that I'm working on, just, I try to make sure that I'm really passionate about it.

Yeah. Yeah. And that comes across. And I love that point you made about your parents. I mean, I think about that often with my parents who were both immigrants. My mom moved to London when she was 16 years old, which I can't imagine what that feels like. You know, English is not their first language. And then you're starting out from scratch, like, nothing. And then when I was. She was, like, making us breakfast, me and my sister, dropping us to school, going to work, getting us picked up in the evening, making us dinner. Like, you know, just, like, taking care of us.

Like.

And I just. I always look at my mom's work ethic, and I think that's. I can. I feel that similarity where I'm like, I work this hard because I saw my mom work that hard. 100%.

Like, the humble beginnings. It really is. Like, I'm really glad the way we grew up. Like, I mean, there was a moment where all four boys are in one bedroom, and four boys, meaning our youngest at the time was the youngest brother was his baby. And we're like teenagers, and we're starting this band. We'd be playing these big stages and go back and sleep in the same bedroom. And at the time, I hated it because I was like, ugh. But it's also now I'm like, that's what made me me who I am today. And, yeah, I think if it was a different situation, I don't know if I would be in the same mindset.

Yeah. Speaking about that, though, like, one thing I've noticed with you, from the time we have spent together, and even with everyone else, whether it's online or offline, it's like, you're super grounded. You make everyone feel comfortable around you. Like, I remember when we were, like, hanging out last year in New York, and, you know, I'm always mindful. I'm like, are you sure you want to go there? Like, you know, is you going to be surrounded by people? And, like, you were so cool when people came up and, you know, we'd always bump into groups of people who were just happy to say hello to you. And you've always. You seem very comfortable with. Obviously you've done it for a long time, but you're very comfortable with people. You're very easy with people. You're very grounded. I don't notice Ego and arrogance. When I talk to you and I see how you deal with your team, your friends, everyone in your life, and it's really beautiful to watch.

Thank you.

And I really appreciate that because when I was in the monastery, it was like the most. We were trained to believe that the most admirable quality in someone was humility. Like, that was seen as, like the. The crown jewel of all qualities was if someone could be extremely accomplished but be humble. And that doesn't mean that they think they're worthless. It just means that they still treat everyone with respect. And I see that in you. And so I wonder, was arrogance and ego ever a challenge? Was that ever? Or was that just like, obviously we all have it when we're young and it goes away, or was it something that you got more used to with fame? Like, how did. I just want to hear your story with that, because I feel like, yeah, it's just special watching you where you are now and just how effortless it is.

It's. It's interesting because there's been definitely times I feel like I've been affected by the feeling of being on stage and feeling larger than life. At times. You're living this feeling is like. Only way to put it, is like the quarterback that wins the high school football game. Like, we're doing it every night on stage. That energy, people screaming your name. Yeah, it's just trippy, you know, and it definitely can affect you. I am really grateful that I had two guys to do this with. Brothers keep you pretty accountable and humble. And we slapped each other around a lot. I think that humble beginnings is also essential. Like, don't forget where you came from. And all those things are so easy to just forget to move to LA and get a big house and, like, you're retired, like, whatever. Don't talk to me. I'm hiding out. And to each their own. I just. I still don't know what the ingredient was, but I. The magic ingredient was. But I think it's a bunch of different things. And I think also just getting older and like, finding my own, like, happiness outside of the brothers, outside of music, outside of film or tv, just like, on my own personal front of being able to, you know, a bit of separate church and state in that sense, where it's. It's nice to just have something for myself and Sophie. And I am speaking to her, obviously. We. My wife, for those who don't know what to talk about or who I'm talking about, you know, we were very particular with, like, sharing our Relationship. So we. We didn't really post anything about our relationship till, like, we were engaged, like, and it was nice for the first time to actually just have something for us, for me, that I didn't feel like I needed to share with the world. And I think she also keeps me humble and accountable. And it's been amazing to have a partner like her.

I wind up my wife all the time because she does the same thing to me. My wife keeps me so humble and so grounded. And so I'll wind her up by saying really egotistic things around her all the time just to see how she reacts. And she never takes it as a joke. Like, to her, it's like you can't even joke about being arrogant.

I can't look in the mirror a certain way.

Yeah. I can't look in selfies a certain way. If I look at it, she's like, why are you doing that pout? Like, what is wrong with you? I mean, she.

Yeah, she'll. She'll tell me straight up. She'll be like, you're not gonna wear it with those shoes. Right.

Quote.

Like, yesterday I was like, well, planning on it, but. And there's, like, obviously a lot of great things that come from it.

Yeah.

I'm saying the funny things, but I think it's been really helpful to have, outside of brothers, even, like, accountability when it comes to fame. Having a partner who's, like, supportive and also trustworthy and, you know, has your back but also will keep your head on straight.

Yeah, definitely. I couldn't agree more. I think about that all the time that I can't imagine how hard it is to create. Then obviously, Sophie has an incredible career herself as well, so it makes it somewhat more understanding. But with my life, it's like I met Radhi before everything happened. And so it's been really wonderful to be understood in that way as well.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

There's like, a sense, and it's a challenge as well.

Yeah.

Like, as you're becoming this amazing, influential person and there's so much coming at you to have a support. And obviously, she also has an amazing career.

Yeah.

But it's also to see you both, like, do your thing and be supportive and, like, you know, the days you can of the week that you don't get to see your partner, it's just tough. And so now in my life, I just work really hard so I can be home more.

Yeah.

And that's been something I've learned, you know, that I. I enjoy time off because I used to just be like, I have a week off. Oh, what city am I going to? And now I'm like, I actually understand why it's nice to just chill.

Well, you've got adorable children, too.

Thank you. Just incredibly grateful to be a dad.

Yeah.

It's an amazing feeling.

Yeah. What do you think you've learned by. First, we'll start with being in a relationship. Like, what do you think you learned about yourself or something that you grew by being with Sophie that you didn't have before? Like, a skill, an ability, a mindset, an approach to life. What came through that relationship with Sophie?

That it's not some, like, cute relationship that you just. You have. I've had my fun. I've dated before, plenty. But what is just so different with Soph is that that blew me away. It's just like, the forgiveness, the partner, the friend that I have. We're each other's best friends, and we grow together. I mean, so many different, amazing experiences that we've had. And just five some years, it's just trippy to us. We're like, whoa. We really have lived a life. And it's just been amazing to, like, at times, save each other. You know, we've gone through so many heavy things together as a couple and individuals, and to know you have that support no matter what, it's just amazing.

Yeah. I love hearing that, man. It's beautiful. And, yeah, I agree with. There's so many things that you can go on and on about. But, yeah, I feel the same way. Like, when I met Radhi, it's like, I don't think I ever knew what a genuine, like, understanding relationship looked like. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, I feel understood.

Yeah. I remember there was a big moment in our relationship where we had a rocky phase, and I, like, called it off, and she was understanding, and that blew my mind.

Yeah.

That somebody could be.

You break up with someone and they.

Understand, and I panicked and got back with her, like, right away.

But it was the best.

Obviously the best decision ever. I was not the breakup part. That was the dumbest decision, but I realizing, like, the fact that she would be supportive. I realized that this person is. Loves me so much that they were willing to put aside their stuff for me. And I'm like, what the. Like, how. How could I ever lose that?

Yeah.

And that's special. Yeah, it's really special.

That's beautiful. What about. What about with the kids? Like, becoming a dad? Like, that's another. These are all major life transitions. Right. Like, going from being with the brothers to. Then doing your solo thing, then coming to therapy, figuring that out, then, you know, these were major life transitions. And I think I'm not a dad yet, so I'm always intrigued to get dad tips. And, I mean, Willa joined many, many meditations, many Zen Zens, which is very sweet, but. Yeah. What would you say have been the greatest lessons for you? The biggest. Yeah, the biggest.

The greatest. I mean, there's so many. I got amazing advice before I became a father, just before becoming a parent. I reached out to my favorite people that are parents and the ones I really respect, how they raise their kids. I had a lot of questions for them, but the biggest question was, like, if you can give me one big piece of advice. And almost all of them, and this sounds just kind of cliche, but they're just like, literally, enjoy every moment because it moves by so fast. And I think about my own father, and I'm thinking, like, you know, he blinks, and I'm like, his sons are in his 30s. He's like most of his sons. And it's just like. And I'm a big kid at heart, and I, like. I encourage other parents to just be a big kid. Another person mentioned, you know, they watched their son. They watched, like, somebody walk by with their child over a puddle. And that parent was like, no, no, we don't jump in puddles. And he was like, I never want to be that parent. I want to be the parent that, like, explores that. Because you know what? There's plenty of clothes at home you can change into. And, like, that imagination is so important for young kids, and I had that growing up, and I want to be like that now. I understand if you're on your way somewhere fancy, whatever. I get there. There's obviously times maybe jumping in the puddle is not always the best, but, like, the message there is. Imagination is so key. And if I was ever held back from, like, being wacky and silly and putting a show on for my family or friends in my basement, I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't love the music, if I wasn't allowed to listen to music that I listened to. And there's a lot of things. And I get it. That's a big question. I mean, it's a big comment. There are music. There are certain music. I didn't get to listen to it growing up, but I will say, like, it molded me to who I am today. And I think the imagination thing is so key.

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Oh yeah. I think one of the most amazing things I've done and I have it framed at home. This was one of my first experiences in therapy and this therapist asked me to write a letter to like, essentially they asked me to think about what I see when I'm like, when you say okay, and I'm no therapist, so excuse me for presenting this. You probably know this method. But I want you to write a letter to yourself as a kid and I want you to think of that age. So for me it was between ages like 7 and 10. I mean like, alright now like I want you to like look at it. There's an empty chair. Like I want you to look at the empty chair and really visualize yourself. Like visualize yourself. What are you wearing? How's your hair look? Are you, what are you playing with? Are you like sitting there? Are you, are you nervous? Are you distracted? I'm like, I can see myself essentially. And then I wrote a letter to myself and like to my younger self. Like, oh yeah, you know, like maybe don't date this person, whatever. Just like funny little things to even like personal things. Like it's okay to like be a weirdo. Like if you get picked on for that, that's cool. And one day these guys are gonna come to your concert. Like whatever. Like just funny things. And then I wrote a letter to myself as an adult, but as the eight year old self. And I couldn't get through the letter. I mean, I'm bawling, crying, trying to write this letter. And I wrote it with my, the hand. I'm not strong, I'm not very strong with. So I wrote with my left hand. So it's really squiggly. And I have the letter framed in my house. It was just such a great reminder to just to be a kid at heart and to like not be too hard on ourselves because we're all big kids at the end of the day trying to figure this crazy thing called life out.

Yeah, totally. I love that exercise. I think it's such an important one and it's like everyone should definitely do that.

It's amazing. I mean I found it to be an emotional thing. Some people find it to be a fun and game, but whatever it is, I loved it and I passed it on.

Yeah, no, I think it's so. I think it's so powerful. What are other things that like we've talked about meditation, of course. And I'd love to know more of your practice now as well. But what are some other habits that you've picked up along the way? It sounds like you're a collector of like.

Definitely.

Yeah, you know, like.

Yeah, I like to think I'm a collector.

The gratitude list you talked about, you talked about this letter to kids. We talked about meditation. What are some of the others?

All collections from other people.

That's good.

I think the most recent, the Director of Devotion JD Right above his monitors, he had, what do you want them to feel? And I just fell in love with that little quote. And I wrote it on a mirror in the dressing room that we traveled with. So it wasn't just writing on some.

Backstage, like, left it for everyone, some random bathroom mirror.

And that really helps me before I go on the stage. Like, what do I want them to feel? Especially after, like, a long day. Let's say your voice is tired, you're mentally drained, or you're like, all right, we're playing the same show. Like, gotta find. Like, what about. And then that always reminds me. I'm like, there's somebody out there. That's their favorite song. Or look for that person. Or if I'm tired. Like, these people spend all their day getting ready for today. Like, I want them to. Like, if I went to a concert and I. It takes me a lot to go see a show, because I'm like, all right, this has got to be somebody I really want to see. You want to see what you think is, like, you want to leave going, that was amazing. Like, how do I bring that for them? And same, like, what do you want them to feel? And it's really powerful. So I've taken that along the way. My morning routine is, I think, pretty locked in now. My streaks are pretty good on my meditation app, so I pretty much wake up, and the first thing I do is meditate. Sometimes it's like a moving meditation where I'm like, I can be brushing my teeth or doing something, but I'm in silence, and I'm just kind of walking through the steps. And then I write a gratitude list, and it's anywhere from, I'm grateful for the beautiful morning. I'm grateful for a cup of coffee. This can keep me going. Or to, like, a larger thing. I'm grateful for my health. Like, the fact that I get to be able to walk on two feet and do this. And obviously, the list goes on. And then I'm working on my Italian, so really don't quiz me, but I'm slowly, slowly working on that.

Why Italian? Specifically the movie?

We went to Italy on our honeymoon, and I just did not like that I had to, like, be. My hands were held by our translator the whole trip. So I'm on this romantic trip, and then I'm like, do you mind asking if they have any more? And I just was, like, embarrassed, but also, like, I took that and was like, I want to go back here on our own and, like, not have to have anybody helping Us out. It was like, that brought me. And then just. Italy's amazing.

Yeah, it is.

I'd love to learn more.

I love that. I. I love what you were saying earlier, because I think that mindset for anyone who's performing, anyone who's done this for a long time, like, you know, I think a lot of people. Most. Most people who don't know me well don't know that I started speaking on stages and at events when I was 18 years old. And so I'd done what I'd done for 10 years before anyone cared or knew what it was. And when I. When I hear what you're saying, it's like, when you've done it for that long. I became more grateful when people actually cared, because I was like, I've been doing this for 10 years, and, like, five people showed up. And so, you know, when you start doing it and more people care and more people are interested, you become more grateful. But there was something beautiful. There was an interview with Vanessa Bryant, Kobe's Brian's wife, after he passed away, and she was telling a story, actually, I think she was giving a speech, and she told this conversation that she had with Kobe, and she said that, you know, people always asked Kobe why he played when he was injured, or a lot of people didn't know that he played when he was injured. But every time I'd ask him why he played when he was injured, he'd said that I played because that person has saved up to come and watch one game, and they want me to play in that game. They came to watch me, and if I don't play, then they won't have got to see me, and they may not be able to afford to go to another game ever again. And so I'm gonna play even if I'm injured. And every time I think about that, and it's exactly what I heard in the essence of what you were saying, that it's like people have come here to see us. It's like, what do you want them to feel like when you live in that way? It's like every show becomes it's your first time, Right? It feels that way because it's that person's first time, even if it's not yours. And I think that mindset is so beautiful and so special, and you see it across all these amazing people who perform for a living who are doing this week in, week out. And the fact that you share that, it speaks volumes for anyone out there who's wanting a career in this light, whatever it may be any career that's on stage. You've got to have that in your heart because otherwise it gets really boring, really unfulfilling and really dry really quickly. So anyway, you reminded me of that.

That's a beautiful story.

Yeah. To share it.

What a legend. He had found strength even when he's injured. It's amazing.

Yeah, it's amazing. But. But I like that. What do you want to make people feel? I think that that's such a great way to live. Like you just given a mantra for life, like, even if you're not a performer.

No, I feel like it's just in general being more present with somebody. I mean, you know, there's. There's times feel like you can't really even bring a lot to the table, literally dinner table. Somebody calls you, say, hey, you want to get dinner tonight? And you've been running, running, running. You're like, I don't think I can give you 100% of myself mentally or physically even, like, just to be in your presence. Like, I just. It's okay to give you the rain check. Some passed on the rain check. Sometimes you're just like, I. I want you to be able to have my full attention. And I try to put that into play more often.

How have you managed to keep so many good relationships? Like, during this busy career, a hectic career, like, it's. Most people end up becoming lonely and successful. Right. And when we did Zen Zone, I got to meet all these wonderful human beings and it wasn't just people in the industry. Like, it wasn't like a. I just send a note out and whoever comes, it was like, these are people that know you and, you know, and like, when we would talk and, like, you know, there'd be banter back and forth and you could tell that there was a real relationship. Of course, there's bandmates there. There's people. But it's like, how have you managed? I'm intrigued by that idea because I think it's less common. And I think it's fascinating that it's not just the amount. First of all, you have a quantity of relationships as well, but they're also quality as well. Like, what did you do to do that?

I've had the same kind of friend crew for a long time. I think the older you get, your friends gets tighter. Some of which, like you said, I'm lucky that I get to work with some of my friends. I mean, that's sometimes a dangerous game. But I think we've worked long enough where We've like, we're still friends even if we've gone and done different career paths and come back together. But I think it's been essential just to get. I think I always need FaceTime. And I don't mean by FaceTime on the phone. I'm like, literally FaceTime with that person or people. And I think it's really important for the relationship and just checking in. You know, I think it's so interesting how somebody gave me this advice years ago. When we see our friends, like, going through something, we know they're going through a loss in the family or a situation that's pretty heavy. And we usually. You think, like, I don't want to bother them right now. And a lot of people are thinking that more than you would think. And how easy it is to pick up the phone or just shoot a text. I've been trying to implement. Implement that a little bit more. I'm still not great at it, but I definitely know that, like, it's something that I have felt on the other side when I'm going through something kind of heavy. And, like, people might go, like, I just want to give them space. Maybe they need. Maybe I shouldn't pretend like I know what it's like. It's somewhat nice to be reached out to or to reach out.

That's beautiful, man. And I know you do that. I think that's the thing. I'm sitting in this interview, and the whole time I've been thinking, like, this guy actually does everything he's saying he does, and I genuinely respect it. It's so hard to. To really walk your talk. It's so hard to like, really emphasize, you know, I remember even, you know, just when. When we were traveling together last year for that. For a couple of the shows, and it was just, you know, you were going through so many family things as well in between.

Yeah.

And it's like you were constantly there and available and trying to make sure, you know, trying to figure it out. And like, that was what you guys were talking about, like, you know, so you could tell just how much love and how much connection there was there with the. You know, with family. And when you look at family, family is obviously such a central pillar to your life, like, in every sense of the word. The brothers, your parents, your. Your wife, your kids. You know, like the fact that the crew family, the team family, like, if you had to give not advice, but your reflection on, like, what keeps family to get together despite so many differences, despite doing business together, like, what have you what have you come up with? Because there has to be something that keeps someone after all this time, like, inspired to keep family together when it. And it's not just business, right? It's more than that.

I think we learned a while back that if it's just business 24 7, which it was, like, it would implode, which it did. We broke up as a band, and we wanted pretty much nothing to do with each other for a while. And when we decided to get back together as a band, there was a lot of like, all right, we have a lot to work through. And we did. But once we stepped back into this crazy world of what we do, we made sure that we tried to take some time just for us as brothers, as a family, like, go on trips together. Like, let's not talk about work. And it's weird because work is also, like, what we love. So music does come up, but there are moments where we're like, let's just go ski together. Let's go play golf. I mean, golf is kind of our. It's the one thing I guess we all can relate on. I'm not. I mean, we just went play golf for Nick's birthday. I mean, this guy can plays, like, 36 holes in one day. And then he's like, all right, cool, we're gonna do that 7am tomorrow. I'm like, buddy, I need a break. So we have hobbies outside of.

Yeah, yeah, Work.

That. I think that's essential for us. And even, like, with my parents and stuff, like, just hanging out, you know, let's challenge each other without talking about business. Because we're still, like, in a business with our dad at times. We're in and out. Always like, it always. We can't help ourselves because we all love music. We all love what we do, we love supporting each other. But it is nice to say, you know what? Let's just not talk about. Let's just do something as a family or as friends, as brothers, and keep that relationship healthy as much as we can.

Yeah. Joe, you've been so generous with your time. I want everyone who's listening and watching to know that it's currently Friday night and it's 8:24pm Joe's had a busy day.

Best bar in town with Jay Shetty.

Tomorrow you're performing at Global Citizen.

Yeah, it's gonna be really exciting. Global Citizen at Central Park. I have never played the show, and I mean, quite the flex. I mean. I mean, what a great cause. And I'm getting texts like, you're playing in Central park tomorrow. I'm like, maybe. But I'm really excited to show the stage with some of these legendary acts. I can always say that I played a show with Metallica. Never thought I'd be saying that.

Yeah, it's awesome. But no, I'm so grateful for your time. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you really wanted to share or something that was on your heart or mind and you're like, I really want to talk about this, but I didn't. You didn't feel like you did it?

We kind of tapped into it a little bit on, like, the daily practices. But one thing I've recently done was I found I kind of stole from Greg over there, which has been helpful, actually. I, like, recently deleted social media off my phone. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. And I'll still, like, download Instagram occasionally just to check in on messages. Cause it's like literally a new email at this point. But it's been nice. Cause I just needed the break. And it's been really helpful to be present with my friends and family. And I know there's other ways of doing it. I'm not saying it's bad for you. I mean, there's other ways of setting the alarms and timers. But for me to not even have it on my phone. I'll tell you what. I'm just so much more aware and goes the full circle being present with my friends. I'm just way more in it, which has been really nice.

I love that man. And that's hard.

The only thing I miss is a couple funny memes my friends will send me. Other than that, I feel like I'm pretty aware, which is nice. Yeah.

Yeah. And I've been loving all this spontaneous TikTok. Oh, yeah.

I can't. I'll get back on there eventually. I love that I can showcase that, my wacky personality. Like, I got more people coming up to me on the street these days saying, I like your TikTok than your music. And I'm like, all right.

I was doing an interview the other.

Day, and I'm sat outside having coffee, and this young lady came up and she's like, excuse me. And I was like, this is perfect timing. I'm about to do an interview. And she's like, I love your TikTok. Not unexpected, but I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And then the guy was like, I guess I should ask about your TikTok.

That's awesome. I love that, man. No. And I'm Glad you shared that. I think it's so important to take these breaks, to disconnect, to be present. But we end every interview with the final five, and these are fast five, so one word to one sentence maximum. So you got to be on your toes, which you're very good at. So here are your final five. Joe Jonas. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever received?

There's a lot. I mean, I think this has been essential for growing up. Our dad always said, live like you're at the bottom, even if you're at the top. Not saying I'm at the top, and I never was, but I think I've gotten to a place where I could be feeling myself, and that's been that. Brought back to humble beginning conversation.

That's a great piece of advice. All right. We've never had that on the show. I love it. Question number two. What's the worst advice you've ever heard?

This isn't gonna hurt. And then I got my first tattoo.

That's true. Yeah, that was bad advice. I like that. All right, question number three. What's something you used to value that you don't value anymore?

And maybe it's just for the time being, but social media, I mean, taking this break, I realized it's really needed for my life.

Yeah. Yeah.

Taking a little time off and just nice to be aware and present. And so I thought that was, like, that's 40 minutes of my day in the day, just scrolling myself to bed, you know, to bed, being like, now I'm dreaming about goats laughing on a mountain. Why? Great dream. But, you know, it's like, I can just go to bed.

It's quite nice. No, it's huge. That's a huge one.

Or wake up and not feel, like, anxiety from seeing some craziness. It's just nice to be, like, present and aware or being, like, jealous. You're not somewhere in the world with these people that you. That you sometimes see. You're like, okay, I'm with myself or my friend, people that I love. It's quite nice.

That's a beautiful answer. Beautiful description. All right, question number four is, how would you define your current purpose?

I think to just be open to learning and growing. I think I realized that what I do is really incredible because I can make people feel a certain way and conduct a crowd, in a sense. And I'm one of many, but few that get that opportunity. And I know how great of an opportunity that is. And so, yeah, I think my purpose is to make people feel. Hopefully good. Definitely more emotional at times for the song.

Definitely good. Definitely good. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Be nicer to everyone. Be nicer to people.

Yeah, we definitely need that.

We do.

We definitely need that. Joe, you're the man. Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you so much for having me.

No, I'm so grateful you did this.

I know we could go on for.

I know we could talk for hours.

We have a lot we can. This is one of ten.

This is. This is the first time. This is just the first one. You'll come on anytime you want.

Yeah, I would love to. Yeah.

Yeah. You got to come on anytime. And I'm so grateful you came on. I wanted to document this chapter of our journey together, too, so that every time we can do it and look back.

Yeah. Watch the little screen and go, remember when. Yeah. Why was I wearing that?

Yeah, maybe I'll say that, but I love that. Thank you, man. Thank you so much, everyone who's been listening and watching back at home. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I think there were so many great insights, exercises, tips from Joe. I want to make sure that you. Joe's not on social media, but you can tag him anyway so that he knows when he comes back, somebody will show me.

Somebody will show me.

But please tag Joe and I on TikTok, on Instagram, on Twitter, whatever you're using so that we can see what you learned, what you took away, what you're practicing. I hope that you're going to put some of these great insights and tips into practice for yourself. And I hope you got to know Joe a little more deeply and a little more through my lens and through my eyes in the way that I've got to know him. So thank you so much for listening, listening and watching. Hope you shared this with a ton of friends and a big thank you to Joe and a big thank you to each and every one of you.

Hey, it's Joel and Matt from how to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Yeah. Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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