Rob Dial: How to Break the Cycle of Procrastination & 3 Ways to Change Your Repeated Thoughts

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I think if people are like I want to accomplish this goal. The very next question is why? And then go why, why, why, why?

Why?

If your why is so strong, how it's going to be done it we'll figure out. We've got a book out called Level Up. Rob Dial from the Mindset Mentor Podcast. Not everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault. But whatever it is that you have, it is your responsibility to work through. If I'm going to feel the feelings of fear, why don't I also just try feeling the feelings of success in getting there?

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The number one health and wellness podcast Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so glad that you decided to tune in to listen, learn and grow. Today's guest is a long time friend. When we tell you about how we met and how long ago it was, you'll get to hear this story in a few moments, but I'm really excited because this is his first time on the show. We're finally making it happen. His name is Rob Dyle, the host of the hugely popular podcast the Mindset Mentor Podcast. Rob simplifies neurology, psychology, and cognitive behavioral therapy to help people grasp how their brains and bodies function together. Rob's podcast is one of his biggest projects. If you're not subscribed yet, check it out. And Rob's also the author of Level Up. The book is out right now and it guides people to take action, overcome procrastination, and form lasting habits. Rob believes that when you master your mindset, you master your life. If you don't have this book already, go and order it now. Level up by Rob Dahl welcome to the show, Rob.

Dude, I'm so excited to be here.

Dude, I can't believe it's taken us this long. I know, but we're doing it.

Hey, I love it and I don't.

Come to Austin enough, so we haven't done that yet either. But I was saying to everyone, yeah, we met seven years ago. We were just talking about it in New York and I think we were both just starting out trying to figure it out, making content, figuring it out. And we'd connected because I think we had a similar set of values and beliefs around the kind of mindset. And you were always really curious about Eastern spirituality. And I felt like we just had great conversations. We went on a couple of walks, hung out, and I was just. We were just saying this offline. It was you who actually said to me back in 2017, you were like, dude, you should start a podcast. And I was like, I don't know if I have time. I don't know if I'm able to do it. I don't know what it would be. I don't know if you know. And you were like. I remember you literally saying, like, you should just record yourself walking around, like, just whatever.

You realize you just have so much wisdom. There's just. It needs to. People need to hear it.

No, but I'm grateful, man, for all those conversations and all the conversations in between and. Yeah, man, I remember when we were talking about this as well. It's beautiful.

Yeah, I. That book, actually, you helped me with that. Whereas, like, I felt like in 2020, I never wanted to write a book. And then in 2020, I was like, man, I'm kind of thinking about it, and I talked with. With one of my friends who was. Had written a book, and then I was like, I'm going to hit up Jay and see what he thinks. And so I called you up and I was like, hey, man, like, should I go traditional? Should I go, like, self publish? And you're like, well, traditional is good. You told me the reasons why. And it was like, I always say, like, in life, you never see the entire path, but you can look like in the headlights, where it's like, if you drive at night, don't see the entire path to where you're going, but you can see the next hundred feet in front of you. And, like, the first hundred feet was calling my friend. And I was like, hey, you have a successful book. What should I do? And then the next hundred feet was calling you up, and you're like, yeah, you should do this. And so then I talked to an agent, went a little bit further on, and took three years, but it eventually came out. But you were a part of it as well.

Man, I love it. It took you 30 seconds to start dropping hacks, habits and tools. I love it. I know the audience is gonna love this conversation because I know you all love mind. I know you all love habits. I know you love tools. This book is packed with them. And today we're going to extract it all out of Rob. So, Rob, I want to dive straight in because I think there's so many things we can talk about, and I love that this book has so much to do with focus, and we. I feel like that's a topic that's really important. We haven't had many guests that have shed a lot of light on it, so this is. This is perfect. Talk to me about why, because I know you love the neuroscience. Why is it that we all want something? We have goals, we have things that we believe are important, but we struggle to focus on them.

Yeah, well, there's a couple different things. I think the first thing is that we hold ourselves back from is we have a lot of fears and fears when you really start to dive into them, like you mentioned in the beginning of this, I started talking with you about the east, and you started. I remember you told me in 2017, like, you should read the Bhagavad Gita. So I literally wrote it. I got it, like, the next week and read it while we were traveling. And so there was that. And as I was writing, the book was like, what's the thing? Because the original title of the book was the Psychology of Taking Action. Because I was looking at the Mindset Mentor podcast. I have 1400 episodes. And I was like, it's just me speaking for almost every single one of them. And I was like, what do I teach? Like, what do people want from me? And I was like, it's almost all, like, tips and tricks to understand yourself, to take action. Because everybody who's listening to a podcast has the awareness of, I want to improve, I want to get better. I want something different, but how do I do it? And so I started saying, okay, if taking action is what the book's going to be about, like, why don't people take action in the first place? And one of the things that pops up for people is fear. Like, they're just. There's some sort of fear that pops up for them. And I had a conversation with one of my friends who went and lived in the tribe, with a tribe, a native Brazilian tribe in the middle of Brazil. And so he had to fly into a town. He had to hop on a boat and go for two days on a boat in the middle of nowhere. And he started talking to me about these things that he called primal fears and intellectual fears. So, like, a primal fear is pain or death is attached to it. And we don't really come up with too many primal fears in our life nowadays. Intellectual fear is like what we deal with all day long, which is, you know, the, the, the fear of rejection, the fear of failure, the fear of not being accepted, the fear of success. We have all these fears and, and all of these fears are made up in our minds. And so I was listening to, I'm pretty sure it was Sadhguru I was listening to. And I was like, I put on and I was driving around in Sedona as I was writing the book. I was there just to try to get my whole mind together by myself writing it. And I was like looking at fears and trying to figure them out. And one thing that he said that like really hit me more than anything else is, okay, I've identified my fears and the next thing is, well, how do I overcome these fears? And if it's an intellectual fear, the fears that exist in our minds is you can't overcome something that doesn't exist. And so we create, we basically wake up in the boogeyman. We wake up in the morning, we create the boogeyman, which is like the fear of success, the fear of failure, whatever it is. And instead of actually taking the action that we need to and focusing on what it is that we want, we take all of our focus and put it towards trying to overcome this fear, when in reality the fear doesn't even exist in the first place. And so I think the biggest thing for most people is like the fear is keeping you from focusing, but there's also like the identity of who you think you are. And one of my favorite things is challenging who I think I am all the time. Like, I love the story and I put in the book of Jim Carrey when he decided to be in man on the Moon. And it was the man on the Moon is a movie where he ended up playing Andy Kaufman. And there was a whole documentary that was done on this and they curbed it for like 20 years because it was so off the rails of how crazy he went. And what he did was he. It's a documentary called Jim and Andy that's on him playing the role on man on the Moon. So Andy Kaufman was a guy who was once alive. And the crazy part about Andy Kaufman is he also played other characters. So it was Jim Carrey playing Andy Kaufman who played like Tony Clifton and other characters. But the thing that happened with him was that he would never break character. So he was a method actor. So for four months he played as this real life person and even to the point where his driver that would pick him up in Hollywood and drive him to his house, said that whoever he was playing at the time that they stopped recording, whether it was Andy Kaufman, Tony Clifton, he would play that person the entire day when he. When he was driving him home that night, and he'd pick him up, and he was still the same person, not Jim Carrey anymore. And so what happened was he. He ended up, like. And it gets kind of crazy where he ends up doing therapy sessions with Andy Kaufman's real daughter and his family to, like, help them overcome his sudden death. And so what happens is they stop recording four months later, and he's like, I don't know who I am. And he lost who he was. And he's like, I don't know my beliefs. I don't know what makes me happy, what makes me sad, what pisses me off anymore. He's like, I've kind of just lost who Jim Carrey is. And that's kind of like his spiritual awakening that you've seen him go through over the past 20 years. And he realized, if I can lose Jim Carrey, then who the hell is Jim Carrey? And he realized that Jim Carrey is just basically a character that he's playing all the time that is completely somebody else, and he could just wake up another morning and act like he's somebody else. And so I think that two of the things that really keep us from focusing on stuff is we get really afraid and fearful of making change or judgment or failure and all that. And the other thing is, like, who we actually truly think we are will hold us back from taking either the action that we need to or, you know, staying in the exact same position that we're in.

I love that I want to go down both of those routes, because I find them both fascinating for different reasons. And I want to go down that more spiritual, ethereal journey as well. Let's do it. Because. Yeah, but. But before we do that, I want to make sure that. So if we talk about the fears that people are experiencing, as you said, a lot of the time it's an intellectual fear. It's not real, but it feels so real.

Feels real.

Yeah, Right. Like when someone says, like, oh, I'm really scared about what if I get rejected from the job, or I'm really scared that my partner's gonna leave me, or I'm really scared that I don't feel good enough or smart enough to make it in whatever field it is, those feel extremely real.

Yeah.

How do you process a feeling that feels real, even though it may be intellectual?

Yeah, well, so that's the beautiful thing about being a human. And I think it's. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's actually in the Bhagavad Gita, it gives an example of a L attacking you or tiger attacking you at night. And you know, one of the examples I give in the book is similar that, where it's like, if you think about it, if you. We've all had this. We have a really intense dream. Like you're walking in a forest, whatever it is, and you see a lion. It starts running after you. You know, you, you, you run from it. You turn, you look over your shoulder, it's getting closer, you're still running from it. You turn, look over your shoulder just as teeth are about to, to, to dig into you. And you wake up in the middle of the night and your body didn't move at all, but you're sweating, you're out of breath, your heart rate is intensely going. And the amazing thing about being a human, you know, they usually say in any case is what your biggest strength is, is also can be your biggest fault. The thing about humans is that we can project our minds into a future that doesn't exist yet. And so what we can do right now is we can sit here, you know, we're in the studio, everything is amazing. We have food, water, shelter, clothing, everything. But if I'm like, as a lot of people do, like, if I'm starting a business right, I can sit here and I can think, well, I really want to start this business. But then I start playing out all of the things that could go wrong, which is what we tend to do, not what goes right, but what could go wrong when I project my mind into that future. The crazy part is that my mind and my body are constantly connected. So my, my brain is sending neuropeptides to my body and creating hormones as if that moment is actually happening right now. And so what happens is we tend to as humans, as a protection mechanism, we tend to project ourself into a future that is fearful, that is scary. And that fearful, scary feeling usually keeps us in the exact same place. And so what I always say is, like, if I'm going to imagine the worst that could happen, why don't I at least try to see the best that could happen? And so if I'm going to notice myself, the awareness of, like, I'm really in a lot of fear right now with starting this business. And I'm going, man, what's the worst that could happen, well, then I might as well close my eyes and say, like, what's the best that could happen? And what would it feel like to start this business and to be able to crack a million dollars in a business? And how proud of myself would I be to break a million dollars in sales and to be able to build this and travel with my family and provide what I've always wanted to provide? And if I'm going to feel the feelings of fear, why don't I also just try on feeling the feelings of success and getting there? And so if we notice it's an intellectual fear, the first P that I always say is, there's. There's three pieces. There's the awareness of it. Okay, I'm aware that I'm in a state of fear. I need a practice to get myself out of that. Okay, if I notice myself in a state of fear, what's my practice to get myself out of it? Well, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to calm down and take six deep breaths, and I'm going to connect back to my heart, and I'm going to ask myself, like, what's the best thing that could happen? That's the practice to get myself out of it. And then the last piece is repetition. So it's awareness, it's practice, it's repetition. If I do it over and over and over again, eventually I start to rewire myself. So, like, one of the things that. That I found in myself years ago that I didn't like was, was that I judge people. And I didn't. I'm like, man, I love people. Like, I love. I try to do. I try to be of service as much as I can. But an immediate thought that will come in my head sometimes is like, judgment of somebody that I don't know, and I just judge them. And I was like, I don't like that pattern. I want to change this pattern within myself. It's awareness. I become aware of what I want to change. And the first time I really did it, I was at a grocery store, and this guy had this Bluetooth, the long Bluetooth, as if he was making cold calls at an office, but he was at the grocery store. And immediately the first thought in my head was judgment. And I always say, you can't change your first thought, but you could change your second thought. So I noticed the judgment as a first thought awareness. My practice that I decided for myself was I'm going to force myself in my head to say three things that I like about this guy. I paused myself in the moment. I found myself in a pattern that I don't want to be in anymore. What are three things that I like about this guy? And I said it and then I went on about my day and I started doing this over and over and over and over again. And one thing that I noticed is that my first thought started changing to less judgment and more acceptance. Because ultimately that's what I really want to work on is more acceptance and loving of people and of myself. And so I think it's becoming aware of it. Once you're aware of the things that you're trying the pattern you're trying to change, what's the practice that you're going to take yourself down and then noticing that you're just going to do it over and over and over again. But the one of the biggest keys is to give yourself grace as you're doing it. Because a lot of times we make, we become aware and then we judge ourselves and we beat ourself up for it. So I think it's giving yourself a lot of love and grace and going, hey, I've noticed this pattern. Don't worry, we're going to change it. Let's go on this practice and just continuing to do that.

Yeah, it's so well said. Hey everyone, it's Jay here. My wife and I have had so much fun creating our own sparkling tea. Joonie and I've got big news for you. It's at Target and we'd love your support if you can go out, grab a journey. You'll be adding adaptogens and nootropics into your life with mood boosting properties aimed at promoting a balanced and happy mind. Through our commitment to our wellness journey and striving to fuel our bodies and with the healthiest ingredients, it's been our purpose to make healthy choices accessible for all. Which is why Juni is now on shelves at Target. So head to our store locator@drinkjuni.com and find Juni at a Target near you. I think so often we get scared even of having the thought of what could be possible. Because we're scared that it can't be possible and we just find another thing to be fearful of. And I love this idea of what you're saying around transforming your thoughts because I've definitely the more and more I've studied books, the more and more I've read and I've thought I've discovered that all of our failure and success in life is based on our Most repeated thought. And one of my biggest questions to most people I meet now is, what is your most repeated thought? And most people don't know the answer because they're not aware in your words. And a lot of people who do know will say it something like, I'm not good enough. I don't like the way I look. I am ugly, whatever else it may be for them. Right. And so we're either aware and it's negative or we're unaware because it's so subconscious. And I've started to recognize that most of the thoughts we have are not that different. They're the same thought that comes in a different voice, a different tone, a different vocabulary, a different language, but it's the same repetition. And so I've started to really think. Think about what's my most repeated thought.

Yeah.

And how can I be more. As you are saying, how can I be more selective about it? And how can I choose it more effectively rather than just let it be something that's kind of just coming up?

Yeah. And it's. And it's like not. Don't identify with your thoughts. You know, like, one of the things that I don't remember where I heard it before, but the way I like to think about it. And, and I've heard you say before, even like a lot of people say, like, oh, I struggle with meditating. And I've heard you say before where it's not about mastering your thoughts, it's not about making your thoughts go away. It's just becoming aware of your thoughts a little bit more. Because when we close our eyes, you know, about 60% of our brain is visual for visual things to see. So when we close our eyes, it kind of turns off a lot of parts. And so thoughts usually come up and we become aware of those. Like, one of the things that I've been doing a lot recently is like, trying to be in as much silence as possible. Like, I'm just trying to be as much silence as I possibly can because I feel like that's where a lot of my awareness is and a lot of my answers come from. And so when you sit there and the analogy that I love when you start thinking of your thoughts is it's like sitting on the edge of a mountain, and down below there's just a road going that. That you're looking at. And sitting on the edge of the mountain is like meditating or just sitting in silence and just, you know, looking at your thoughts. And you can watch the cars go by. The thoughts that go by and not have to be attached to them. You don't find yourself getting sucked into the red car that just went by. You just watch the cars go by. And that's the way that I try to see my thoughts, which is, okay, I'm gonna watch them go by. I'm not gonna connect to them, but I can look at them and be like, is this thought, which, you know, about 90% of our thoughts are the same as yesterday. Is this thought helping me in trying to get to where I wanna be in life? Or is this thought holding me back from trying to get to where I wanna be in life? And if it's helping me, then I want to strengthen it. If it's not helping me, well, then, hey, as that guy on the podcast said, I can't control my first thought, but I control my second. So what would I prefer? My second thought.

Yeah, I think you just hit the nail on the head. Like, that's what it is for me. It's whether you've understood that you're not your thoughts or not, that can be quite hard for people, because I think we're so close to them. But even if you can practice distance through meditation or mindfulness, the real win is being able to look at a thought and say, is it good for me or is it not helpful, like you just said? Like, I think that is the wisdom of it, that can I evaluate everything that's repetitive in my mind and ask myself, is this useful? Is it helpful? Is it allowing me to move in the direction I want? Because chances are a lot of what we're saying is actually doing the complete opposite. And then you go, oh, wait a minute. Even though it's interesting and even though I could get lost in it, I don't want to waste time and therefore I'll move in the other direction. You talk about procrastination in this book. And that, again, going back to your earlier title, is A Block against the Psychology of Action. And we all have a friend, or maybe we are that friend that constantly puts things off. We postpone, we procrastinate. We say, I'll do it another year. I want to launch a podcast. Someone's been saying that for two years. There's someone listening right now who wants to start an Instagram page. They put it off for six months. There's someone listening who's like, oh, I missed out on the clubhouse thing, and then I missed out on the TikTok thing, and now I'm missing out on whatever the next thing is. And we procrastinate hoping that one day will come. What have you learned about procrastination through your research when you were writing the book that has helped people break that cycle because it seems to apply to so many of our lives.

I mean, the thing about it is this. If I've always. I always like to be, like, very extreme in examples, because if we can go extreme, then it makes a lot of sense. But I always tell people, like. And I always say it like, hey, I've given this. When I used to give a lot of speeches, I would be in front of people, I'd say, hey, what's the chance of you making a million dollars this year? Give me. Give me numbers. And everyone's like, 0%, 0%, 0%, 1%. There's always 1%. It's like 5. And that's like, the most it'll get to. And I said, okay, I'm gonna give you the most extreme example, but I just want to see what happens. Okay, what's the percentage chance of you making a million dollars this year legally? And if you don't, everyone that you love dies. And everyone's like, 100%, 100%, 1,000, a thousand percent. I said, what changed? The goal didn't change, the time frame didn't change, why you're doing it changed. Would you wake up in the morning if everyone that you love's life depended on it and be like, yeah, well, maybe I should scroll on TikTok for a little while. No, you'd be like, I'm gonna take action immediately. And so it doesn't need to be, like, a fear of losing everybody, but what's really behind that is, like, why. Like, why they're. They're doing it. Like, if I have a reflection of anyone who doesn't know Jay, like, you're one of the hardest working people I've ever met, but you have a really strong why, right? And that's, like, one of the best parts about it, where it's like, when I see Jay, I'm like, this guy has. He has this internal feeling of, like, I want to change the world. And you work so hard trying to do it. And that's one of the most beautiful things about you, is, like, you are wanting to change the world, and you have a really strong why to it. And I think that if most people could figure out, like, oh, yeah, well, I want to do this thing. Why do you want to do it? And my very first one on one, coach used to say to me, he would say, what's your why? What's your why? Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? You, like, hammer it home in my head. And I was like, why do you ask this so much? And he would always say, because if your why is strong enough, your how will reveal itself. If you know why you want to do something, how it's gonna be done, you'll figure out, it doesn't matter. Things are gonna get in your way. There's gonna be obstacles. There's always gonna be obstacles. There's always gonna be challenges. Always gonna be moments of like, I don't know if I can do this, but if your why is so strong, it's like, I don't care what comes up in front of me. I'm gonna get it done. Like most people, they want to be motivated. And I have come to. To hate the word motivation, because motivation's so fleeting. Like, we can wake up and we can listen to a podcast where we can get, you know, read something, and then something can happen to us, and it's gone. It just disappears. What I want to be is I want to be driven. Like, when you see a driven person, like, you see it in their eyes, like, yeah, they're not stopping. And the difference between a motivated person and a driven person is that the driven person has this why that they want to see have happen in the world or in their life or for their family. And so I think if people are like, I want to accomplish this goal, the very next question is, why? And then go, why, why, why, why, why? And go deeper into it. An example I give in the book is I had a coaching client years ago, like, eight, nine years ago. And he was like, rob, I want to make $100,000 this year. I've never made it. And I was like, why? And I took him through what's called seven levels of why. Just keep asking why, why, why, why, why? And it went from I want to make $100,000 a year because I've never done it before, to the eventual thing was he had just got into a divorce a couple years ago. Both of his young children lived in a bad part of town with his ex wife. He wanted to regain custody because he was afraid that both of his children would be killed in a drive by. And he was so terrified of it that that was his actual true why. And so it wasn't the motivation. I didn't have to talk to him and say, hey, you know how close you'd make $100,000 this year? I said, hey, how close are you to Provide more safety for your children this year because he wanted them to move in with him, and he wanted to be able to provide for them and to make sure that they were safe. And so I think that if we just ask ourselves, why do I truly want to accomplish this goal? It kind of reveals itself and it makes it a lot easier to take the action.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, you know, and I appreciate all the kind words, but I can definitely say the only thing that's kept me going is my why. Because I think there are so many things that either make you want to give up or slow down or become lazy or complacent. And when I look at it and someone asked me this, I was sitting with an. With another creator end of last year, and he was just like, to me, jay, why do you even do anything anymore? Like, what's the point? Like, it seems like you're good. Like, why do you need to do anything? And I was like, we've just got to the start of everything. Like, I just got to the beginning of where I need to be. I was like, we've just got to a point where we can connect with lots of people, but we need to give people the step by step process to transform their life. And now we can take them on the journey because people are listening, they're engaged. We have a community, we have a connection with people. But when I started out, we didn't have any of that. So I see as we just got to the star of where I want to be, because. And it was just interesting to me that so many people struggle to find their why. And I think it's because we don't. No one's. And you just said your coach helped you do it. It was same with me, my art teacher at. From age 11 to age 18, he was my art teacher at school. And every time I'd paint something or draw something or do a collage or a graph design and whatever I'd do, the first question he'd ask me is, why did you do it? And I'd be like, cause. My initial response is, cause it looks good like that. You know, I was a kid. What do I know? And he'd be like, every year, he'd be like, why did you do it? And I'd be like, oh, cause this color matches with this color. And then be like, why do you do it? And I'm like, oh, because it reveals the metaphor that I think this is about. And then he'd be like, why did you do it? And I'm like, because that's how I'm feeling right now. I'm trying to. And every year it would ask me. It would reveal more and more layers of my psyche in a similar way. And again, I've owed it to someone in my life who pushed me to ask the question why? Same as you. And so I think what we're both saying is, please ask that question to yourself. But what if someone asks that question and they feel stuck and they kind of go, I've asked it, but it's kind of just like, just want a nice house. Like, I just want a nice car. I just. I just kind of want to, you know, like, it's not that deep. And I think you're right. Like you said, we don't have a lot of primal fears. Like, some people are listening right now will have fears of survival, and that is driving them, and they are working hard and they are pushing. And at the same time, we'll have people who, like, driven, but they're like, I'm not driven enough because I haven't got anything to be that scared about or that worried about. How do that person discover their worth?

Yeah, I think for me, it's like my life was never terrible or, you know, like, when I. When I started the. Yeah, when I started the podcast, the Mindset Mentor, like, I was at a point in my life where I was making a whole bunch of money and I was 27 years old and I was making 250 grand a year, and I was working for, and everything was great, but I felt like I was slowly withering away and I could see what the future was going to be while I was there. And I said, okay, if I do this for another 5 years and I'm 32 years old and I'm still doing this, or I have my manager's job, is that going to fulfill me? And it actually gave me more anxiety to think about having my manager's job. And then I sat there and I thought, okay, well, like, I really want to do this podcasting thing. It seems to be going pretty well. I want to coach people, I want to help people. And I also, at the same time, was like, starting an Amazon business and trying to make money online and do that. And so I thought about it and I asked myself, okay, if I fast forward five years from today, do I want to be the person that's in sales management, like I'm doing now, and consulting? Do I want to be the guy that's selling stuff on Amazon and, you know, incredible Amazon business person or do I want to be the guy that's coaching people and helping people change their lives? And the immediate answer was very clear, coaching people and changing their lives. And I was like, okay, well, that feels like it's the path. And then immediately comes up is all kinds of fear because I don't know what I'm doing. Like, back in the day, 2015, nobody made any money in podcasts. I didn't have any idea of how to grow a business, any of that type of stuff. But what was important to me was, number one, when I fast forwarded into the future, the futures that I didn't want seemed way more painful than trying the unknown. And what could be if I did take the path? And so that was. That became more of a fear, like the fear of judgment, the fear of putting myself out there, other people's opinions. It was there, it's still there. And I don't know if you ever get past it, but you just kind of get more used to it. But the fear of being in the exact same position, working the same job, maybe making a little bit more money, doing this for every day until the day I die was terrifying. That was. That was a fear. And I was like, well, then this path of the unknown isn't as scary. And so I might as well take this path of the unknown. And I'll be fully transparent. There was. I shared this on, like, one other time. I think there was a moment in 2015 where I started the podcast. In August of 2015, November of 2015, I was feeling, like, a whole lot of fear. And I was like, I might have to go back and work for someone else again. And it was just fear was so in my head, and I was like, I gotta go back to making money. I got a new house, I got a mortgage. I don't know how I'm gonna do this. I'm not making any money doing this. My sister came out to me, and I believe, you know, if you're silent, the messages are always there. If you're looking, the messages are always there. My sister, I was at her house, and she goes, hey, have you ever seen this box of dad's stuff? And I was like, no. And she brought up, my father was an alcoholic. He passed away when I was 15 from his alcoholism. And she brought out this box, and it was his glasses, it was a T shirt of his, it was his watch. And the other things were a bunch of letters. My dad was in jail for a little while for multiple DUIs, and they put him in jail. And he would write letters to us. And he wrote a letter to my sister on her 19th birthday. And I was reading this, you know, 2015, so he would have wrote it to her in 1999. And the very last line was, I hope you live your life with courage, love, and laughter. And I read it, and it was like, the universe warped. And I was like, oh, he wrote this for me. Like, there was a moment where I was like, he wrote this to my sister, but the universe is giving this message through my dad because I need to hear this right now because I'm in so much fear. In the very first line is courage. Live your life with courage, love, and laughter. And I was like, I gotta commit. Like, I. This has to be the thing. I've gotta make a decision. And when you look at the root word of decision, it's dicadaria, which means to cut off. I'm going to cut off all other options. You know, I'd heard, like, Will Smith say, there's no reason to have plan B because it distracts from plan A. Like, it's gotta be the thing. And I was like, oh, my God, I got to commit to this thing. I can't have any more feelings of, like, I'm going to go back to working for someone else. Like, this is my life path. I'm either going to succeed at it. I'm going to die trying. And I was like, I don't know what to do. I was like, I'm going to get this tattoo to my arm. So I literally have you live your life with courage, love, and laughter Tattoo to my arm. My very first tattoo I ever got. But it was like, for me, people always think, like, when you make a decision, the fear disappears. Like, I wish that I could do these things, but it's like, it's always there. But you've got to learn that. Like, the fear is always going to be there. But my bigger fear is getting to the end of my life and having not done this, having not tried to help people. You know, like, being in the room with. With my father after he passed away when I was 15 years old and realizing, because he was the first person I ever met that passed away, I'm going to be there one day. And I saw it. I was like, oh, yeah, that's. I'm gonna. He. He was a dreamer, and he was an amazing person, but he didn't do what he wanted to do. I am not going to live that life. I'm going to create what I want to create. And now I have all of the other fears that everyone else has, but my biggest fear is getting to the end of my life and not having tried or not having at least gone for it.

Yeah, that's. I love hearing that. And you've reminded me of a great speech that Jim Carrey gave, funnily enough. And he talked about how his dad. I believe his dad and I could be getting this wrong, but he said that his dad was an accountant, and he did that to be safe. And he said that when he was young, his dad got made redundant from his safe job. Jim Carrey said that in life, you are probably gonna fail at something you don't love, so you might as well try something you do love.

Right.

Like this idea that I'm choosing the safe option, or I'm choosing something that my parents thought my family wanted, or I'm choosing something I think is secure, even that's unstable and uncertain. And so the uncertainty that you pursue actually is less fearful.

Yeah.

Because you're on top of it. You're aware. And I think that's. That's one of the biggest habits that I think has changed my life is that I stopped believing and accepting that I would get to a place where I no longer had to use my brain. Right. Like, I think we all believe subconsciously, somewhere that there's a paycheck, there's a bank balance, there's a home, there's a fashion, there's a partner. That means from that point on, I don't have to think about anything.

It's all good.

Everything's all good. And my. I'd say my best habit in life is recognizing that that is the biggest myth that we've been sold. And I just don't accept it. And I'm okay. That my life requires constant work ethic and effort and awareness and being astute and being conscious, because that is what's actually being demanded by this world. A uncertain world forces you to be conscious, but if you're unconscious in an uncertain world, that's leading to a really dangerous place.

Sure.

And. But I think we're waiting for that moment where we can just not be conscious because it's so much hard work. But to your point, it's way harder work being unconscious.

Oh, yeah.

Because the amount of unconscious issues that arise. Numerous.

I think there's, like, a lot of wisdom in what you said, because a lot of people would rather just be like, well, let me get to this destination. Once I'm there, everything becomes better.

Hey, I want that too.

I do, too. Right? And I thought that for a long time. And it's interesting, the journey that I've had is, you know, I always wanted to make money because I thought money was going to give me what I needed. It would give me that safety and security that I never felt as a child. And then I got to a goal that I wanted to get to and I realized I feel exactly the same as I've always felt. I don't feel any different, I don't feel any more secure, I don't feel any happier, I don't feel any more loved. And what I realized was I thought that the achievement, the recognition from other people, the money in my bank account, the buying cool stuff would fill what I actually thought was, and consciously now know is I thought that all of those things would fill a void that was inside of me. And what I realized is what I was searching for from the external world is actually what I was searching for for myself. And so the reason why I spend so much time in silence nowadays, I'll just go out of my porch and I'll just sit there for a couple hours is because I'm trying to fill the void that I have have created through life and through patterns and through heartbreaks and through all of the things that happened in my childhood. And I'm trying to be there as the 38 year old man for the 9 year old boy that's still healing. And what I've realized is that none of the material things, anything externally will ever give me what I was ever searching for, everything I've always searched for in the external was what I've been searching for for myself. And so I don't, I 100% agree with you. I don't think there's any destination we ever get to. I think I'm constantly going to overcome more things every single day. And you know, if I live to a hundred, I would be so lucky. And another 62 more years, I don't expect that I'm going to get to the end of my life and be like I figured it out. I think the beautiful thing part about it is I think that I was given this need for achievement to realize that it doesn't change anything. Because the path of wanting to achieve and doing it through business and doing it through growing and all that stuff has actually lit up inside of me. A spiritual journey that wouldn't have been there had I not wanted to go for those things.

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Next thing, what I've come to find. And I can speak within myself and just what I've seen from other people. But what I've seen within myself is that I've learned a lot of lessons from my dad, most of them after his death. And me processing things. My father was the way that he was and he became an alcoholic because he had things in his past that he hadn't worked through. And the thing that, that he hadn't worked through is when he was 12 years old, my father heard a gunshot. He walked into the room and his dad had just shot himself in the mouth. With a shotgun. And so my dad grew up in rural Tennessee. This is 19, you know, 60s when this happened. 1970. Yeah, 1960s when this happened. There wasn't a whole lot for him to understand. There weren't podcasts, there weren't books to read like we have nowadays. And so I. I always consciously knew that what was happening was that he had not healed his pain. And Gabor Mate says, don't ask why the trauma, Ask why the pain. And when I first heard Gabor Mate, I was like, oh, my God, someone's finally saying what I always thought with my father. And so, you know, we can look at him and say, oh, yeah, he's an alcoholic, and he didn't overcome his trauma. The trauma, the way it came up in my life is I became a workaholic. And so I didn't. You know, sometimes we could see someone and say, oh, they drink too much alcohol, they do too much drugs, they eat too much food. And we can say, oh, yeah, that's their addiction. The problem and the hard thing in our society is that my addiction of workaholic is rewarded, and people look up to it, and they're like, you're doing so great. You're making so much money. All of this is so good. And what I came to find is that. But my workaholism was just basically me trying to not feel my feelings and to not work through and process those things. You know, like scrolling on social media could be that way for somebody. It could be. Some people are addicted to working out. Some people are addicted to, you know, watching tv. And there's so many. Some people are addicted to shopping. There's so many different addictions that we have. And what I found is that the hardest thing for me was to stop and to just not have to. I was always trying to fill every single moment of my day, always try to be so busy when I didn't have something to do, I'd find something to do. In my business. Businesses, you can always work all day, every day. And so what I've tried to do and I've built in my business is a lot of systems and processes through my. My VP of operations has really helped me with this a ton. To be able to take a lot of stuff off my plate so that I have more time to just be. It's my personal belief that I think that God, the universe, life, whatever it is, speaks in silence. And so if I want those messages, I need to be silent. What I found for myself is when I would be silent a lot of anxiety would come up, and I'd be like, you got to go to the next thing. You got to go. The next thing. This is stupid. You should be doing something else. And then I just realized that what I was trying to do is achieve, to fill a void. But I could sit here, and there's been moments where I'll sit on my porch and. And I'll literally just start crying. And I'm like, sometimes it's gratitude. Oh, my God. I can't believe I've been given this life. I can't believe I've had these challenges. I can't believe that I've had this come up. I'm so grateful for every single aspect of it. And sometimes I just sit there and tear it up, and I'm like, I don't know what this is, but this is something my body's releasing, and I need to be okay with this releasing process. You know, there's. There's a really interesting thing that. That people could look at. There's two videos that are really interesting on. On YouTube. One of them is called Polar bear Trauma, where they show a video of a polar bear, and they. They shoot it with a tranquilizer gun from a helicopter to chase it down the helicopter. Really heightened experience. They shoot it with a tranquilizer gun so it's still awake, but it's not, you know, completely out. And it starts having a convulsion, start seizuring, and eventually after it, seizures. It's. What it's doing is it's releasing all of the cortisol, all of the adrenaline from its body so that there's no trauma that comes with it. And so then it goes, after it's shaken for a while, takes a really deep breath, and it just kind of calms down. Almost identical video of a impala that gets attacked by a jaguar. And the jaguar gets scared off, it starts to convulse, takes a deep breath, and then it moves it. And we're taught in our lives at some point in time not to remove this and to work through these traumas and these feelings. I think children naturally do it through, like, temper tantrums. They move it. And sometimes as adults, we either need to have, like, an adult temper tantrum in safety, where you just take a pillow and you can be angry, you could be mad, you could just scream, you can cuss, you can smash it against the bed, whatever it is, in safety by yourself, without other people around, so you don't scare them as well. And then sometimes it's also just like, sitting there in silence and realizing that what is coming is going. It's like when you squeeze an orange. What's inside of it? Orange juice. Because that's what's in it, right? When you sit there and you put pressure on yourself or you give yourself space, what's coming out is actually what's inside. And your body's natural intelligence is trying to let go of it. And so, for me, that's what I found, is that there's some moments where I'm just, like, incredibly grateful. There's some moments where I'm. I. By doing nothing, Jay, I get so much anxiety, and I'm like, what is this? Why? And instead of running from it, I get curious. And I think if we could just get more curious. Like, I've been reading a whole lot of Krishnamurti recently. I love Krishnamurti. And one thing he says is, don't know yourself, because knowing is based in the past, and past is based off of memories. Start learning yourself, which is in the present moment. So be present and be like, what comes up. How can I be curious about this anxious feeling or these tears or whatever it is, and just be in the space to just know yourself or get to know yourself a little bit better.

Yeah, it's so great. I mean, talking about that, that goes to me back to what we were talking about at the start of it. You were saying how this idea of, well, what if the worst thing happens? What if the best thing happens? And we're talking about this idea of Jim Carrey. And you were saying that there's this experience of, well, I lost who Jim Carrey was. And what we've both talked about is we are so much of what our thoughts are. And if you change the thoughts completely, you're almost a completely different human. So then who are we?

Right?

Comes back to this. Know thyself versus learning of thyself. Like, what has that spiritual journey taken you on to understanding identity.

I mean, God, Jay, that's, like, as deep as it could go that I am just a soul that chose this life. And one of the things that I like to do is I like to think that I chose this life. And that immediately takes me from being a victim in my life. Oh, woe was me. My father was this way. He did this to me. My mom did this to me, and my teachers acted this way versus me going, like, I think my soul chose this life because this is whatever is needed for this path that it's on for, you know, whether it's reincarnation or whether it's heaven or hell or whatever it is that comes after this, I don't know. But I do know, like, right now, I do have this life. As Rob Dial and as I get older, the thing I realize is that my body changes. I'm not as fast as I used to be. I'm a lot more sore than I used to be. Like, my body's changing, but my soul is this thing that is just always there. And so the thing that I've. That I've come to realize is that I want to. I don't know if it's going to sound weird, like I want to unattach myself from this body, from everything around me. And I want to try to connect back to what's internally inside of me. And the one thing that I find is that that never changes. Like, that there's, like, a truth that's behind that. And truth is the thing that never changes. If something changes or if something can be questioned, it's not true. But there's this feeling that feels like truth inside of me, at least. And everybody has their own truth. But for me, my truth is there's something that's behind all of it. And the more that I connect to it, the more peace that I have. Like, I listen to a lot of Ram Dass, and one of the things that he said, I was listening to him on the drive over here, and I listen to his meditation every day is the only work that you have to do is the connection to your own heart. And so I'm always constantly thinking, what's in the way of my own heart, what material possessions, what things that I want to get her in the way of that. And the reason why I think that it helps is, number one, I've had so much more peace from trying to connect to that. And my relationship with my wife has been so much better because of it. Because I'm not blocking her from letting her in. She's experiencing me fully. She starts to be able to open up even more in different ways. I'd be able to express, experience her more fully. And so for me, it's just like connecting to the thing that's behind it. That feels like the only thing that's truth. Now, mind you, if. If Rob 15 years ago had heard this, he would be like, what the hell is that guy talking about? It would make no sense. But on this journey, I've just. I've just kind of realized that there's something behind it all. And I want to try to connect to that something. Behind it all and see what it is. And so for me, it's like I, I, I like to use myself as a guinea pig. Everything I teach in the mindset, mentor and the podcast is all stuff that I'm trying within myself. And I, I use it as almost my own therapy sessions where I'm talking to everybody, but I'm talking to myself. I'm reminding myself of all these things. And what I realized is I realized that after 15, 19 years of personal development, it's like, you know, personal development's like this, this, this cup right here. And I feel like my cup in person was overflowing. And then I found spiritual development and I realized, oh, my God, it's a lot bigger cup and it's not even close to being full. Like it's a bucket and it needs, it's my next thing that I'm working on. So for me, it's like the mindset, the working through, like, I'm constantly working on this and trying to get better, but for me, it's like I want to connect to myself and see what else is in there.

Yeah, for sure. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, you made me remember a C.S. lewis statement that says, you don't have a soul. You are the soul and you have a body.

Yeah.

And I remember I used to have that written on a little post it note, and I used to look at it every day first thing in the morning, because I was thinking about this concept of identity that the first thing 99% of us do when we wake up first thing in the morning is we look in the mirror. Usually we say something like, oh, I look tired, or don't like that spot, or, God, I put on weight. God, whatever it is, right now, all of a sudden, we're already in the bodily concept of life, this bodily consciousness. And now you live your whole day thinking about the body. What does the body need? The body needs food, et cetera. And so, and that's natural. Like, that's not unnatural, that's normal. Like, I do that too. But then you're saying that at the same time, you've got to nurture and nourish and connect with this deeper sense. How do you balance the two in a real world where you have responsibilities, you have bills, you have things to do that are connected to the body. But then at the same time, we're like, but you're not this body, so how do you balance, how do you make sense of these two seemingly opposite pursuits?

Yeah, I mean, the thing that I think I would have thought five or 10 years ago was that the more that I get into spiritual development, the less motivated I'll become or the most, the less I will want to achieve. That hasn't gone away in any sort of way, but what I have found is that I achieve through a place of. Of. It's more like I'm not white knuckling my way through life anymore. I'm not. I can take action and not be so wrapped up in my fears and my limiting beliefs. And so it's not like you. I'm. I'm in the world and of the world the same time, where it's like the soul is here and I get. As I'm speaking to you, everything that I say is also something that I struggle with every single day. I have not mastered this process. There'll be times where I find myself just so in the world, and I'm just, like, stressed. There's things happening. There's this business where there's all of this. You know, we've got employees, we're hiring people. There's stuff happening. And then I just take a step back and I'm like. It's just. It's just like kind of like a game. Like, take a second. Like, that's. It's all real. That's. It's. I'm not saying that it's not true. It's not reality. It's not in front of you. It's all there. But behind it all, if I can connect to, like, a deeper sense that's within me and the soul that I feel is in there, I'm like, hey, man, chill out for a second. Like, it's really not that big of a deal, right? Most things, you know, there are definitely some things that are big deals in people's lives. And there's deaths and there's things that people have to, you know, be in control of and be able to pay bills and all that stuff, all of those are real and they're definitely necessary. But behind it all, you're still there. And there's this thing that if I can take myself back and kind of like, out of my own head and kind of into my heart, which has been a big journey for me because I was. I'm so analytical and was never really taught, like, feelings and how to feel and process emotions. But if I can take myself out of my head and into my heart, what I've always found is that my head is always projecting itself into the future or sometimes projecting itself into the past. But most, for me, like if I sit down and meditate sometimes it's like all of my to do list, all of the things that I have to do, and it's projecting itself into the future. So my brain is always somewhere else. My body, it's always here. And so when I notice myself get stressed, I notice myself get anxious, I notice myself, whatever feelings I might be feeling, if I can take a couple deep breaths and kind of get back into my body, I'm like, it's not that bad. Like, you'll fit you. You have overcome so many things in your life, you'll figure out a way to get through it. And so what I've found is that it's not that I don't take the action. It's not that I'm not wanting to achieve more and more things and be able to have more fun and have more do all of this stuff in the external world, but when I find myself kind of take a step back and kind of be in my heart is. It makes it a lot easier. I'm not like white knuckling and forcing my way through life. It's almost like I'm allowing life to happen through me. And I don't know how it works and I don't pretend to be smart enough, but things start happening around me that help me in the process of getting to wherever it is that I actually want to truly go.

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We won't be remembered in a thousand years.

And it's so. Okay. Yeah. And. But we take it so seriously. And if you only do one or the other, like, if I only see my life as extremely significant, everything's too high pressure.

Oh, yeah.

Oh my gosh. I would. It would hurt me and it would cause me pain. If I thought everything I did was of utmost significance and if I thought my life was insignificant, if I thought my life was irrelevant, that would be really bad for my self esteem.

I would do anything.

I wouldn't be able to function right. And so I think it's really interesting because the more and more I'm learning, I'm like, I have to learn how to hold these two seemingly opposite things. But actually they're so connected and symbiotic and they're so synchronous because they both have value. Going back to which thought has value. The. The collective thought of my life is significant and insignificant is the most helpful thought. Because thinking I'm significant, insignificant are both unhelpful thoughts.

Oh, my God. You actually just summarized perfectly what I feel like actually has been going through my head for years, which is what I do, I do believe is so important. And at the same time I'm like, none of it matters. Right? It's this weird duality that we live in.

So freeing.

But it's so freeing because it takes so much pressure off where it just becomes like fun. Like it's, it's. How can I bring more fun into life? Like, when did we lose the. The joy of life and the fun of life that we had as children? When was it programmed out of us? And how can I connect to that child and bring that spirit back in and be like, yeah, I'm going to do some amazing things in the world, but without it being stressful. Just with it being fun and with it being something that I can do and it effortlessly flows out of me. Like, I believe that every single person is incredibly creative and we are creators at the actual core of us. And a lot of us have lost it, and I lost it for years. And so what I think is how can I make the creativity flow out of me in some sort of way and just allow the stage space for it to happen. And one of the things that happens, and it's not necessarily my. My goal of it, but when I sit in silence, I get ideas that come through and I'm like, oh, man, I don't know how I didn't see this. And that's where they all are. So it's Like, a lot of times we're trying to force things to happen. We're trying to force creativity, trying to force ideas. But sometimes when I get there, I'm like, oh, man. Yeah, this is the thing I've been searching for. And it's just. I think every person just needs to give themselves just a little bit more space to not be on their phone, to not be constantly. You know, And a lot of people have children. Their children are up. Can you wake up a little bit earlier, not be on your phone and just sit in silence and see what comes up? And I think that it's really important for people because what you'll notice is exactly what you're saying, which is what we do. Like, this life is so important, but it is very insignificant. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. Like, I love watching videos on YouTube about how small the Earth is compared to the rest of the universe. And it stresses my wife out. She's like, I'm gonna have a panic attack. Why? Why do you watch this? Because I was like, I like to remind myself that even though it's all happening and I'm in it, none of it actually truly matters.

Yeah.

And that's okay.

Absolutely. And I think when I'm listening to you, there's this feeling that, you know, I feel like I agree with you. I think everyone is a creator. I do believe that creativity flows when we connect with that, but I think sometimes we feel so distracted from it.

Yeah.

And it's so much easier to pull out our phone. It's so much easier to put on a show in the background. It's so much easier to do all of these. It's so much easier to do all those things at the same time. Yeah. Like, now we're no longer ever with one person. We're with one person. We're both on our phones and we're watching a show at the same time. And we've got our laptops doing work. So you've literally got three screens in front of you, five screens in total. And there's. There's so much distraction. Right. We know that. How does a person possibly. And I say this out of, like, compassion and empathy, because it's like, it requires so much from us.

Right.

Because everything around us is built for distraction. The foods we're eating, the. The things we drink and consume, the. The stuff that's created around us, it's all to distract.

Yeah.

So you're fighting, like, almost what feels, to a lot of people like a losing battle.

Right.

What do you do to get. Pick yourself back up?

I mean, what's more. What's. What's more important than that? You know? Like, what's more important than connecting to your true self, to working on yourself? Like, I.

Why do I.

Like, why am I so hardcore in mindset? Because I know how many people are so wrapped up in their mindset and their thoughts and their beliefs and their patterns that they're stuck in. And what ultimately we all want, I think, is freedom. And the way to get through to that freedom is to work on yourself, whatever that looks like, for whatever stage someone is in, you know, And I can have empathy for every person at every stage because I've been through so many stages of my process, and I think that it comes back to, like, why are you doing it? What do you want? If you're trying to disconnect from your phone, why? You know, like, for me, like, I recently deleted Instagram from my phone. I did it last year for a month. Felt like it was amazing. The book came out, and I was like, I got to get back on. I got to promote. I got to make sure things are good. I recently just deleted it again. And now everything that I post, everything flows through my team. So it's not like it's just gone. It's just now I just happen to flow, everything flows through my team. Why did I do that, though? Was because I don't want to live my life on that phone. And one thing that I noticed is that Instagram was one of the things where I would pick it up and I would just somehow get to it. And I wasn't even thinking about getting to it. And I was like, my life is not this little tiny thing. My life is everything that's out here. And so why do I want to get. Why did I delete it? Was because I actually want to be in everything. I want to be present with my wife when we have children. I want to be present with our children. I want to be the most present version of myself as I possibly can. And I can't imagine that I'll get to the end of my life, be a hundred years old, and be like, I wish I would have spent more time on Instagram. I wish I would have spent more time watching Netflix, you know, And I have. I've. I've been addicted to all of those things. I'm not, you know, above any of this stuff. But I started looking at myself and saying, like, is this helping me get to where I want to be in life? Is it creating more peace in my life. For me, it was creating way more stress. So it's perpetuating these feelings that I'm trying to let go of and trying to work with. And so for me, I think what's important to people is, like, if you want to make a change, why do you want to make the change? And for me, looking at a screen is not as important as actually physically being in front of my wife and giving her what she actually truly deserves, which is 100% of my attention, because there's been times where I've not given her 100% of my attention. And as I. As we start to have kids and stuff, I don't want to be a distracted parent. I want to be with them. I'll never sit there and go, well, when my kids were kids, my kids were children. I wish I would have spent more time on Instagram. I wish I had spent more time watching Netflix. I just think for me, like, the. The. The level of the. The place I'm at in my life is I want to be as present as possible because I've worked for things, I've climbed ladders, I've gotten to different places. I've realized none of those things fulfilled me in any sort of way. And this journey I've been on in the past, you know, 10 years, seven years ago, and we started talking about the Bhagavad Gita, and I started meditating a whole lot more. And getting into is, I realized, oh, these things are bringing me peace. And the more peaceful I feel, the more that it becomes easy to actually achieve and create the stuff that I want to in life. And so for me, the presence in the peace, at this point in my life, things might change. I don't know what it's going to be in five years are actually the things that are the most important to me.

Yeah, it's so interesting. I think we feel like being anxious and being, you know, kind of, like, busy and stuff will actually create the most effectiveness.

Right.

But what you just said, this idea of if you start from a place of peace, and I think about. I completely agree with that. If you walk into something with stillness, it gives you clarity, gives you perspective. You can zoom out, you can zoom in. If you're buzzing around and moving around, you lose all of that. It's all blurry and fuzzy. And I want to ask you what's. What's a lesson you wish you learned earlier in life?

I think it's that what you're searching for externally, you're Actually searching for yourself. I think that's become very apparent to me in the past few years is, is I was always looking for somebody to give me love, somebody to give me acceptance to achieve so that I could be accepted. And what I actually truly think is what I was searching for from everyone else is what I was searching for from myself. So a lot of people that are like. A lot of people I know are people pleasers. They come to me, Rob, I'm a people pleaser. And it's like they'll change themselves to try to get love and acceptance from somebody else, but that's just feeling a. You know, it's like a hungry ghost. It just. The food just goes through the ghost. It doesn't go anywhere. And what we're actually searching for is what we're searching that. That love and acceptance for ourself. And one of the biggest things that I think I've learned in probably the past two years is I was always trying to grow and change myself because there were aspects of myself that I didn't like and I resented. And what I've changed it to in the past couple years is I'm going to love every aspect of myself. So there's some parts of Rob that are beautiful, that are amazing, that love people, that want to connect. There's some great parts of Rob. There's some parts of Rob also that are very selfish, that are very judgmental, that are a little bit short, not as present as he should be. Instead of trying to change those and hate those, I've actually just tried to love them and realized that the selfish Rob that exists was some sort of thing that he. That was a part of past conditioning that came up from needing to be selfish as a child for whatever it might have been, whatever reasons it might have been. And I can love that side of me. And what I realized is that if I try to change it, it gets stronger. If I love it and I accept it, it kind of chills out and it doesn't disappear. Like, I'm not like, yeah, these parts of me don't exist. It's me looking like. Internal Family Systems is a therapy where you look at all parts of you and who you are and you try to figure out a way to understand how the entire orchestra works together. You know, when I was. When I was writing my book, I was sitting there and I was. I was going so hardcore like you. And I come from the world of creating viral videos. I would spend so much time on every single line to make sure it was perfect. Right. Cause I wanted to make sure, like, I've only got 30 seconds or a minute to get the message to be as clear and concise as possible. Let me try to make as perfect as possible. And I used to do a lot of poetry. I used to do a lot of songwriting when I was younger. So I was used to making every line as potent as I could. As I was writing this book, I was like, 16 rounds of edits in, editing every single piece of it. And there was a part of me that said it, said, why are you doing this? Like, why are you doing this? And I was like, I want to write a book that helps people and changes people's lives. I want someone to not know what the Mindset Mentor podcast is, but they walk into Barnes and Noble, they see this book, and they're like, interesting. Let me read it. Let me pick it up. And they read it, and it changes their life. And then I played devil's advocate and I said, but you also want it to be successful, don't you? You also want it to be your New York Times bestseller, so you can have a little badge to put on yourself and say, new York Times bestseller. You want it to be this incredibly selling thing because you know if it takes off, you're gonna make great money for a very long time if it's a perennial seller. And I thought to myself, okay, can I use that egoic side of me to actually help me create a better book? And I could. And so what I realized is, instead of hating that aspect, it's like a tool in my tool belt. When I need to bring that side of me out, I can bring outside that side of me out and say, you know what? I'm gonna create the best freaking book that I can, or the best podcast that I can, or the best reel that I can to try to impact people. And so it's not about, like, trying to force change on myself. It's about loving every aspect of myself. The quote, unquote, good and bad, even though there is no good or bad, but every aspect of Rob. And if I need to use it, I can bring it up and say, hey, Rob, I need this version of you right now, but I'm not going to fight it anymore.

Yeah, yeah. In the monastery, we'd always talk about how the word is anartha, which means unwanted. Thing that seems unwanted actually needs to be engaged. Like, you need to engage it in the service of doing something higher, really, for it to be purified. That's like, you can't just cut it out. You can't just get rid of it. You can't just hate it to go away. You can't just shame it away. You can't just guilt it away. It has to be engaged in a higher service, I. E. Impacting others, helping others, improving your own life, improving the lives of others. Because when it's engaged, then it becomes purified. Because if you just ignore it, it will just stay there. And if you try and push it away, it's gonna push back and get stronger.

Yeah.

But if you engage and go, yeah, you know what? I do have that in me, but I'm going to use that tendency to try and help this person do this. That's the only way that it starts to be purified. And so that resonates very strongly. Great answer. The other one I wanted to ask you was, what's the lesson you had to learn the hard way?

Yeah. I think the one that's been the most potent for a long time is you can't do it all on your own. For me, I don't think I was able to trust people for a very long time. You know, I went to a therapist one time, and he had said, yeah, you've been neglected. And I was like, no, I haven't been neglected. Like, I had food, water, shelter, clothing, all these things. He's like, no, you were emotionally neglected from your father. And I was like, oh, my God. That really, like, rings true. But what happened was I had developed this feeling over my lifetime of, I've got to do it alone. I can't trust anybody. No one else can do it for me. You know, like, there were times when my dad would. Even though. And he was an amazing person. I always tell people, like, I was. I'm so grateful that I had the father that I had. He was. He never beat me, he never yelled at me. He never touched me inappropriately. He would just get drunk and fall asleep. And when he fell asleep, he'd forget about me in a lot of different ways. Right. So there was that neglect of, like, I might. He would say, hey, I'm going to come pick you up and we're going to go fishing. Because I lived in Florida and I, you know, would sit on the front porch for an hour, two hours of my fishing pole, and he would just never show up. Right. And so there were. There were aspects of that, and I think somewhere along the line, I developed this feeling of, like, no one's going to help me. I have to do it all on my own. Which there's a Piece of that, which there is some truth, right? Like, I do have to sometimes step forward and be the person to do it. But for the longest time, I never understood the phrase, no man is an island, because I was like, I have done everything by myself. And then I started looking around me, and I was like, no, I haven't. The universe has always been there, giving me everything that I need and every person to help me in some sort of way improve and get better. And, you know, as everything's grown, the podcast has grown, my. My company has grown, all this stuff. We have 30 people on the team. Like, I can't do it on my own. I can't help people on my own the way that I wish that I could if I was. I'm not 30 people. I don't have 30 days. You know, they can get done, and we can get done in one day that I could get done in entire month. And so what's been big for me is trusting people to be able to help me and to be able to ask for help, whether that be in a business, but also, like, going to my wife and be like, hey, I'm really struggling right now. Like, can you just talk to me for a few minutes? And knowing that she doesn't think like, oh, he's not man enough. Which is, you know, fear that I had, like, oh, if I go to her with my problems, she's going to be like, he's not man enough. But for her to be like, yeah, let me hold space for you. Let's talk it out. And so I think the biggest thing for me is, like, is learning that I can't do it all on my own. It's okay to. It's actually strength to ask for help. It's strong to ask for help, and that I need to be better at asking for help when I do need it.

That's a great one. That's a great one I can relate to in so many ways. And, yeah, it strikes a chord for sure. And I think so many of us, you know, both of those questions, think about it, you know, what's taken. What's the lesson you learned the hard way? And what's a lesson you wished you learned earlier? Yeah, and write them down because you might forget it.

Yeah.

And. And you kind of fall back in that cycle often. Rob, we end every on purpose episode with a final five.

Okay.

These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

Oh, my God. Okay. And so I'm so wordy. That's a. That's I'll do my best.

Rob, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

I'll give you the. I'll give you the sentence. And if you want me to explain it, I can. But everything is your fault.

Yeah, you can explain it.

Everything is your fault comes back to, like, you are the CEO of your life. My very first mentor that I had, I paid 500amonth to have my first coach when I was 19, about to turn 20, and we worked together for two years, and we had some great calls. I don't remember any of them. I remember one. And what it was, was I had made so many excuses as to why I was late to calls, why I didn't hit my assignments, why I didn't do what I needed to do. And he had this really tough conversation with me, and he said, rob, if a business succeeds, whose fault is it? And I was like, I mean, what do you mean? He's like, if a business succeeds, all 1,000 employees move into the direction they have a successful year, whose fault is it? That the person who orchestrated I was like, the CEO, he said, if a business fails, whose fault is it? And I said, the CEO, he said, rob, if you get to the end of your life and it's not what you wanted it to be, and you didn't create the life that you wanted to make, the money that you wanted to have, the success, the love, the happiness, travel, the places that you wanted to, whose fault would it be? And I said, it'd be my fault. And he said, if you did create the life that you wanted to, you had the love, the happiness, the abundance, everything that you wanted, whose fault would that be? And I said, it'd be my fault. And he said, the problem with you is you're treating this. Treating this life as if you're the victim. And what you need to realize that everything that happens to you is your fault and that your life won't change until you decide that you want to be the CEO of your life.

I don't know how that would have felt when you heard it at that point. Yeah, exactly. With that mindset, like. And I think a lot of people today would find that offensive. They might get hurt by it. They might. What? How did you transfer that energy to be like, no, this is actually helpful. It's not hurtful.

Yeah. I mean, I was a little bit hurt, but there's. I felt truth. I felt like, yeah, he's right. Because when I look at the path of where my life was going to go had I continued to blame everybody else, it wasn't going to be good. But when I looked at people who I knew who took full ownership of their life, one of my, probably my first mentor without even it being on purpose was my Uncle Dan, who was an incredibly successful guy, had a bunch of success, but also is incredibly giving, always so loving. And he never blamed anybody else for when his business failed and he brought it back from nothing and rebuilt it. He never blamed anybody else. He was always there for everyone else, but he always took everything as his responsibility. And it's like not everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault, but whatever it is that you have, it is your responsibility to work through. Will Smith also said this where it's like, it's not my fault that my father was an alcoholic, but it's my responsibility to do with what do with it. Because it's a reality that I have and I have to work through those things. And so for me it was like it rang really true where I was like, I was like, okay, it's right and if my life is going to change, I have to be the person to change it. And that's when it like clicked for me. That conversation, I could say is absolutely 100% the one conversation that changed my life completely.

Powerful. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever.

Heard or received fit in with everybody else?

Good question. Number three, what is your most repeated.

Thought as of recently is I'm proud of you. I try to tell myself that every single day. My mom told me that a lot as a kid. I'm trying to repeat it to myself.

I love that. That's a great. One question number four, the number one habit that changes your life, like a daily habit, like something that you practice.

Meditation and breath work. Finding space for myself.

Love it. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Take your time.

One law that everybody in the world has to follow to take five minutes every single day to practice self awareness. I think that every problem in this world could be solved if people were more self aware. I think that all of our problems come from lack of self awareness. And if people are more aware of our actions, you know, if politicians are more aware of their actions and how it's affecting the entire world and if parents were aware of how their actions are affecting their children and as you know, a son, if I'm aware of how my actions are affecting my mom, my sister, my wife, everybody around me. If we could take five minutes to practice being more self aware, I think that the entire world would be better.

I love that. Rob Dahl, everyone. The book is called Level up, How to get focused, stop procrastinating and upgrade your life. If you don't have a copy, go and grab it already. You'll be able to see my testimonial, right?

You're at the top on the back there.

Make sure you go and grab a copy and tag me and Rob on Instagram, on X, on TikTok with what resonated with you, what connected with you. I love seeing and I want Rob to see as well, what you're practicing, what you're trying to put into action in your life. And I can't wait for you to level up. Rob, thank you again. Thank you, man, for coming on and opening your heart and being so vulnerable and at the same time giving so many me practical insights of how people can move from where they are to where they really want to be and even deeper. So thank you so much, man.

I appreciate it. Well, thank you, Jay. Like, I've. I've known you for seven years now, and your inspiration for, like, doing good in the world, and, and I, I can see that the actions that you take are from your heart and from a place of purpose, and it's inspiring for me to always see that.

Thank you, man. I appreciate you.

Of course.

Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor, mate on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds. To start moving on from the past. Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it? It grows where it's soft and green and vulnerable.

Hey, it's Joel and Matt from how to Money. If your New year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right, yeah. Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all. I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, Anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley.

Of Despair is realizing this has happened.

And you have to make a choice.

Whether you're gonna stay in it or move forward.

Our two part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wali. And I'm Hari Kondabolu. It's a new year, and on the podcast Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health, which means being honest about what we know, what.

We don't know, and how messy it can all be.

I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? Health Stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.