Stories From Kick-A$$ Women Leading Gov Tech

All right, it's that time again. Welcome back to In Case You Missed It, but this time you're not going to be hearing from Joe and I directly. We have dedicated this episode to help start a conversation that needs to be had in the market, and to do that, we're bringing some kick-ass women leading GovTech to tell us all about it. Joe, what do we have in store for, uh, today's episode? Well, Dustin, first off, I completely agree with you. I mean, there's over $130 billion a year that's up for grabs in government IT spending, But only 8% of GovTech companies when working in this market are female-founded or female-led. So today we've got 4 women in GovTech that are going to share their best practices, insights, and actionable tips to inspire and mentor the next generation of female founders in GovTech. And here to moderate today's sessions, our CEO, Kathlea Robinette.

Hey, Joe. Hey, Dustin. Thank you so much. And, you know, I'm sorry I didn't— my sweatshirt, I forgot it today, Joe.

That's all right.

It's okay.

In case you missed it, it's a Friday afternoon, right? That's right.

I know, I didn't get the memo.

All right, we'll let you take it from here.

Okay, great. Well, let's, uh, bring on my panelists here. I'm super excited about bringing them on. Here we go. Catherine, Sophia, and Chelsea. So hello, kick-ass women. It is great to be with you here on a Friday afternoon. I'm in Sacramento. Let's see, I think we have Bay Area, Austin, and Catherine, are you in LA? Is that right?

Yes, Los Feliz.

Okay, so here we go. I want to do some quick intros. I mean, I'm Kathleen Robinette. I'm the President and CEO of eRepublic. I've been in GovTech for a very long time. I have my own crazy stories as a GovTech expert, as a woman. It was me And a bunch of white guys usually on panels my whole career. So to see the 3 of you is just so exciting. But enough of me. Catherine, just do a quick intro. How did you get to where you are? And what's a fun fact that we should know about you? Sure.

Maybe I'll start with a fun fact because one of the things that happens after you sell your company is you get to spend more time snowboarding. something that everyone can look forward to. One of the best weeks of my life in Mammoth last week, not gonna lie. I started working in and around GovTech actually from politics. So I had worked in national political tech for several election cycles, and then I helped a college buddy of mine named Eric Garcetti get elected here as mayor of Los Angeles. I was appointed as a commissioner of innovation for the city and actually saw how even a city with the incredible people and resources that Los Angeles has had really struggled and still struggles a lot with technology. Had started our chapter of Hack for LA, our Code for America brigade for National Day of Civic Hacking, and just got more and more interested in this cross between government and technology. And so when my former business partner, Steven, came to me with this little mini version -5 prototype that he had built to build a workflow tool for government, we decided to team up and start CityGrows, which we did in 2016, which we now— CityGrows is part of ClearGov as of last year.

I love that. Yeah, I heard Mammoth is supposed to be off the charts right now.

More snow than they've ever had. They had to dig out the lifts. Like, the lifts go through a trough in the snow. It's like nothing you've ever seen.

Wow.

Again, in our lifetime. So I encourage you to get up there.

That's so cool. So Chelsea, let's go to you next.

Yeah. So hi everyone. Very happy to be here and in this conversation. My name is Chelsea Collier. I'm the founder of Digi-City, the editor-at-large for Smart Cities Connect. And somewhat of a fun fact is I'm also in the first year of my doctoral program at the University of Texas at Austin, focused on ethical AI and public participation.

Wow, now that is the major of the moment. I mean, think about how prescient that was when you picked that with everything that's going on today. So thank you, welcome. Sophia, let's go to you.

Awesome. Thank you everybody for being here today. Really great to, to meet you all. My name is Sophia. I'm the founder and CEO of Blue Dot. We started Blue Dot actually as a 16-week partnership inside of City Hall, so we were their startup in residence. So that's how I got into startup and GovTech. And a fun fact about me, I've done a 900-kilometer mountain bike race in South Africa. That was, that was pretty fun.

Wow, that's great. So let's kick off here. We want to have a casual, fun, but informative conversation today that we can share with others who are listening. And I want to tackle this first notion with you, Kathryn. You know, I think the the 4 of us have talked about, you know, girls and women really aren't techie. And there's still that weird bias that exists out there. Can you talk about that a little bit as you were building and scaling, you know, CityGrows? You know, what strategies did you employ to overcome that?

Yeah, I think it's something that has been part of my career for a long time because I'm not a traditionally, you know, I don't have a CS background. I actually have a social work master's and an English undergrad. So I had to overcome that in myself to some extent to be like, oh no, I, I actually can write SQL queries and do the things that I've done throughout my career, right? Uh, I actually think in some ways there's— from the interaction with government side, government, um, information technology agencies or like government tech staff is actually probably more likely to be female than in the private sector in some ways. Like, I know that best for City of LA. It's a— it's quite a diverse diverse set of people who are in the information technology agency. So in some ways you see more women in positions to make buying decisions. And so in some ways it's a kind of a more welcoming place to be a woman in GovTech from a sales perspective, I think. Not necessarily from an investment perspective always, right?

Right.

So I just think like with everything in startups, you just do it, right? Like the best way to to, you know, address anybody's, like, unconscious bias is that you just start doing it. And there are so many amazing women in the space right now building incredible companies, as well as on the public sector side, like, you know, from the, from the customer side too.

Yeah, I mean, definitely in LA, having been in all— you know, I've visited all 50 states, fun, fun fact about me, and there's no place I really haven't been. LA is a little bit more progressive than most places when it comes to women in tech, I will tell you. So many other things.

Come on, guys.

There you go.

Uh, so Sophia, you know, you and I have talked a little bit more, um, over the year about everything that you're doing, but can you share a pivotal moment, um, or experience that really inspired you? I, I love your story of how you got into GovTech.

Yeah, for sure. And I think that is truly a pivotal moment for, for us as a company, but also for me as a personal journey. So we had a 16-week partnership inside the city hall, and that is when we really had a desk right front and center and working extremely closely with the economic development teams on the ground to really learn the day-to-day challenges, needs, what goals are important for them, and which one of those goals and challenges can we solve with technology. So that's one of the things that I really wanted to do more of before I got into the startup journey is being able to leverage technology to be able to make our work and our lives better in some ways. And I think there are parts of economic development that will never be replaced by technology. That's very human-centric. The relationship and the in-person touchpoints always matter extremely. So what we can say, you know, for technologies that let technology do what they do best and let us humans focus on what technology can't do. And that is, you know, the conversations and the meetings that happen so often in many areas throughout GovTech. And I think that is really inspiring to me, is to be able to see as a female founder the impact that we can create for our users in the government space And how hearing their successes and stories is what really keeps us going in the grind of the startup.

I love that, Sophia. Do you think though that that perspective as a woman-led company and founder of this company, that that perspective is unique to you because you're a woman?

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think what I would say to empower all the women and female founders out there is to really lean into your strengths, right? I think each of us have lots of strengths, whether it's on the product side or whether it's being very experienced in the government space or whatever the strengths are for each female founder. Really feel empowered to lean into it because I think at the end of the day, those strengths is going to be what leads them through all the difficult moments of their startup, which all the female founders are going to go through at one point or another, and all the impact that they create. in their users is what end up is going to make a difference.

I think there's also— there's some research, I believe it's out of HBS. I want to say it's from— I read it or heard it from the author of a book called The Founder's Dilemma, that women typically start businesses to solve a problem, just in what Sophia described. And it is more likely that that's why women create businesses. men have sort of slightly different value systems. I mean, not all, of course, like there's no— don't overgeneralize, right?

Yeah.

But, you know, like that's part of why we become entrepreneurs is because we see something that can be solved and we're often more motivated, I think, or equally motivated by impact and profit, not like a traditional social impact, but just actually solving whatever problem you see in the world. And I think that does make us slightly different as entrepreneurs and honestly better.

Yeah, a unique perspective. You know, so Chelsea, you know, you also as the founder, uh, you know, what are some key lessons that you have learned? And you've been in this GovTech space. What advice do you give for other aspiring women, right? We're trying to promote more women in technology, but specifically more women in GovTech. So Talk about that journey for you as a founder. What advice do you have for others?

Yeah, well, I feel like my experience is so mirrored in all of your comments. I feel like I'm just nodding up and down, up and down, which feels really nice. So I have what I describe as mountain disease, where I find a challenge that looks interesting or a problem I'd like to participate in the solution. And I run up that mountain and get to my version of the top of that mountain. I'm like, oof, But look at that mountain over there. So I've worked in communications, I've been a small business owner, I've worked in social impact, I've worked in state government, I've worked for nonprofits. Now here I am in academia. I've founded my own consulting company. I've done all of these really diverse things. And throughout that entire experience, I've learned that GovTech, CivTech, and smart cities, these platforms are all intersectional.

Mm-hmm.

So it feels like they are all a sector of sectors, meaning that there's so many different domains and each of those call for their own expertise. So you can pick whatever area, technology or improvement or procurement or policy, you know, there's nothing not to learn. And I mentioned that because the biggest lesson for me is that that process of constant learning can either be incredibly overwhelming or it can be really exciting. difference between those 2 choices is your attitude and your perspective. So there is definitely room for imposter syndrome feelings. I feel the feels. I've been there, I'll be there, I am there. That's real. But I've learned that you don't have to give in to that. And it's a choice. And instead of saying, I don't know enough, I don't belong, this isn't for me, you can say, wow, this is new and exciting. I'm surrounded by all of these experts, and I have something too important to contribute as well. So how can I best show up? What is needed and how can I support there? And I've found in that exploration, there's so much joy. And that was the whole incentive for me creating Digi-City is because those sectors sometimes have a hard time talking to each other— public sector, private sector, academia, and social and civic sector.

Wow.

So I decided to sit in the middle and connect all of those things. And not only is that a unique thing that I can bring. It's what's needed, and it's a lot of fun. So, uh, yeah, check, double-check.

Yeah, you know, I love that. You know, I had a wonderful program for women elected officials that I ran for 5 years, so 25 women went through. So 125 women now, some of them are in amazing spots around our country. Um, and what was interesting is almost all of them thought they weren't qualified for the job. somebody had to talk them into it, which they thought was the polar opposite of others who just assumed, yeah, of course I, I can do that. So I, I just found that fascinating. I would sit in these— this room of these amazing women. And, um, so those, you know, I appreciate those thoughts.

You know, um, some research on, um, on women in, uh, in like hiring, where if you put too many qualifications in your job description, women are less likely to apply. So there's an actionable But for the people listening, there's an actionable thing you can do to encourage more women in GovTech. Like, just like you write your specs for your product, write your specs for your job in a goal-oriented, not like feature-oriented way. Like, write them to encourage more women to apply for your jobs because 100%.

That is a great tip. That is— you're right about that. That is true. And staying with you, you know, you have had some amazing milestones. So let's talk about one milestone that you're most proud of. And then also kind of in that frame that we're talking about with all of this information, as a woman entrepreneur, how did your personal experience contribute to that milestone?

Well, I think, you know, kind of go like kind of continuing on this theme of like connecting and networking, right? Like, I think one thing that sometimes women do, like, you know, we're kind of charged with like being the emotional maintenance workers of the world, uh, sometimes fairly, sometimes not, uh, but that means we sort of maintain our relationships, right? So, uh, one of the things that I'm most proud of that we did at CityGrows was during the pandemic, we helped the City of LA and many other governments stand up sidewalk dining permits like instantly, like within a couple of days, right?

Wow.

So all of a sudden, thousands of restaurants were able to operate outdoors with a permit. Like I joked that the City of LA had never issued a permit in 20 minutes for anything ever before, but they could do that with our software. But part of the reason that happened was because I had maintained the relationships I had from being a commissioner, from being just kind of a civically engaged person in Los Angeles, so that there was a trust not only in the kind of validity of our software, but in us as people to, you know, provide this incredible and very important service for our city. So that's one of the things that I'm hands down going to be proudest of forever in terms of what we did at Zipfirs.

Yeah.

Thank you.

That sounds amazing. You know, for you, Sophia, you know, I think, can you share a key challenge that you faced during the development and growth? I mean, I think everyone who starts something, even though Dustin and I— Dustin always calls us a 40-year-old startup as a company because we have so much going on. And for me, I've started pretty much all the new things. So talk about some of those challenges and, you know, how you managed to navigate that and ultimately how did you overcome all of that?

Yeah, no, it's a great question. I can't begin to end the list of challenges that a startup faces ranging from fundraising to just the day-to-day operations to meeting the needs of customers to working with the product team. So I think what I would say is a key challenge that I wanna mention here is to actually to deal with all of those ups and downs that each of the women founders that might be on the line today will inevitably face and continue to face every day. I think startup journey has a really funny way of revealing to you all of your best strengths and all of your worst weaknesses. So in the end, it often comes down to a battle with yourself, all you see are all the things that are going wrong, and it gets really exhausting. So what I would say, and it's something that I continue to remind myself of, is to focus on, you know, the bigger picture and get my head out of the weeds once in a while and to celebrate the small wins. And also, for all the other female founders just to know that they are not alone. All the founders out there are literally experiencing the same thing. And let that be their guiding light and to just focus on all the successes and the impact that they're creating and all the challenges will be solved.

I love that. That's right. The challenges will be solved. So Chelsea, you and I talked earlier about the importance of mentoring and really helping other women. Can you talk about an experience where mentoring or networking was really helpful to you? And then actually the 4 of us are going to talk about this a little bit more because to me this is the number one issue, I think, for women.

Yeah, I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this. I've learned over my career that who you know and why you are connecting with that person or these people is as if, if not more important than what you know and how you implement that knowledge. Learning from other people, whether it's through mentorship or networking, has defined my career and my life. And, you know, just a note that mentorship happens in all ways. I've been inspired and influenced by people who are senior to me, who are at the same level of career as me, and for people who are young in their careers. So it's this kind of idea of co-mentorship that I think is really important. Everyone has something to learn and everyone has something to teach. A specific experience that I'd like to point to is just what has naturally evolved in the smart city space with a really amazing network of women. And we initially bonded, to be honest with you, over common experiences that weren't so pleasant at conferences where we were getting mansplained about the definition of a smart city by men, even though we were experts in our own right and in many ways pushing the boundary of how to define a smart city as being more people-centric. Or we'd comment about the prolific use of manels, panels with only white men on them. We are all familiar with that. And that's just a couple of examples. Very long list, and then again it comes down to a choice. So we could stay in that negative experience and be plenty justified for doing so, by the way, or we could decide to build upon and go beyond that and build something positive, build something supportive where we talk with each other constantly and we support each other. We advocate for each other. We open the door for opportunities, and those are compensated opportunities. We're not just favor. sharing, taking more time from each other. We are additive to each other's lives. And I think that we all have the capacity to do that. And we have the capacity to advocate for that for people who aren't used to that experience. So I saw a post on social media the other day from my friend Wolfstar in Columbus talking about their really cool entrepreneurial ecosystem. And he shared this photo and he said, everyone in this photo wants each other to succeed. And that struck me so deeply because I've been the benefit of that, and I hope that I can provide that benefit to other people. And that is a call to action for all of us to make sure that that's the case. So if you already are not a part of that community, make it your number one priority to go find it. And if after trying you can't find it, then it's clear it's your job to build it. And people So I guess the call to action there is get busy.

Yeah, I love that. You know, I had something interesting happen. We had an event last week in Los Angeles, so we had our leadership forum there for the IT community. And a friend of mine, she was there, and, you know, there was a woman kind of standing over there, and Amanda went over and talked to her. And she was, you know, kind of by herself and saying, oh yeah, sometimes I come to these things and You know, I don't really have anyone to talk to, so thanks for coming over and saying hi to me. How can we take— you know, I was thinking about that. How can we— what do we do about that? How can we leverage that? How can we as women, when we go to things and there's, you know, there's not a lot of us, how do we do that? I just want to open that up for a point of conversation because, you know, I've had that happen to me so many times. It used to be very lonely because also I did this a long time ago. Right. So, Catherine, Sophia, jump in here.

Yeah. I mean, I'm an extrovert, so I'm often the person that's like going up to talk to the person in the corner. Right. We all have to like know our own strengths and weaknesses. Like, I, I know that I'm going to go talk to strangers at a conference or try and bring someone into the conversation who's standing by themselves.

Yeah.

at the coffee table, right?

Right.

But not everybody is that, right? So, and that's okay, right? So I think when someone tries to bring you income, right? But also, yeah, I think there's so much we can— well, here's an example, right? I think one thing that's great about GovTech is that we're— there's so much opportunity in this space. There's like, there's just not enough companies and not enough— there's just like, there's so much room. for us all to grow, um, that I think we can be a little bit less competitive than some other. And, and governments are like that too, right? Governments compete with each other, right?

Yeah.

So we're in this context where there's more of an appetite for sharing of knowledge, sharing of expertise. Um, I think if you are the, like, instigator organizer like I am, then do more of that. Like, I started a Slack for GovTech founders a while ago I haven't been on it for a while, but it's still going. Like, start those kinds of things. And I think when you find them, participate in them, right? Because I think to Sophia's point, it's such a hard journey. It's a hard journey whether you're Series E or whether you're like pre-seed. It's just hard, right?

Yeah.

And so the more support we can give each other, The better. And there is someone in this network who's gone through what you are going through and is willing to talk to you. Like, I am talking to so many founders right now because we've sort of gone through the whole cycle. And, and I think it's— people were very transparent with me around what their journeys were like, and that was incredibly helpful to me. And so I'm trying to do that for other people too.

Yeah, I love that. And I— maybe there's more that we can do as a company here. We're starting this conversation today. It's extremely important to me helping other women leaders across the board. Sophia, what's your take on this?

I'm definitely on the other spectrum of not extrovert. I will often be the one standing by themselves in the corner. Please come and talk to me, Catherine.

Just kidding.

In any case, I really resonated with everything that you mentioned. And I think especially as an Asian female, often going to economic development conferences, there aren't many female founders on the floor, and forget Asian female founders on the floor. And I think we've had some great relationships and conversations with other founders that we often see each other in various shows and conferences that we go to. But another thing I want to add to that would be to uplift your customers who may be rising female leaders in the government space. We have seen some truly inspiring people that we've had the opportunity to work with, and we try to uplift them in whatever ways that we can to write case studies and write success stories and nominate for awards. And just ways that we can uplift those as well. And I think would be just the only other thing that would add to this topic.

Sophia, thank you. And too, I'm hardcore introvert, INTJ all the way. But I have learned how to suit up and demonstrate extroverted qualities. I've taught myself how to do it. And one of the tricks that I use is whether I'm going into a conference or a networking session, I look at who is there, what the topic of the convening is, and I come up with one question that would be really interesting if I could explore this question. And it helps me flip it from feeling like, oof, gosh, I don't belong here, I have to enter this room and it's going to feel awkward, to I'm really curious and people here know something and we can form a more kind of informed conversation about this. So that's just one of the tricks of the trade I've learned over time.

Yeah, thank you. That's a good one. So we're almost up. I knew this was going to happen to us because I knew time was going to fly today. So I told my husband this morning, like, this is going to be so much fun, but it's going to go by so fast. Quickly, I do want to talk about money. I think it's the number one issue that keeps women-led and women Founded govtech companies from being more so. So let's, uh, Catherine, I know you're passionate about this topic. I just want to do a quick round. Funding— what can we do to get more money for more women-led companies?

I was just reading this morning, there was PitchBook data that came out about 2022 that was once again not awesome for the female founder side. So Look, I think this is kind of an ecosystem thing, right? Like, we need to get to the point where we have more women LPs, more women, like, more women making investment decisions.

Totally.

Like, if you are in the position to be an LP and you're on this call, like, support some emerging managers, support women managers, support managers of color. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this is how we're going to change this problem is who's making those funding decisions. And then I would really, you know, In hindsight, we probably should have raised a lot more money than we did in some ways. We did what we did on a shoestring, partly because we are scrappy and partly because we had to. Like, women founders shouldn't have any implicit bias. Like, if you have the slightest sense that you are asking women different questions, harder questions, like, really interrogate yourself. if you're a funder in this space to make sure— there are some great funders, but like until we get to a representative sample of how much, like how many, like the percentage of women-founded companies is the same percentage as women getting funded, like we're not founding worse companies and, and like we're actually a better bet than male founders. So write some checks, write some checks.

You know, someone just asked a really good question and the 3 of you will be perfect talk about. She's saying that investors really are staying away from government, right? So the challenge there is that the gov sales cycle takes so long. What do you all have to say to that? I mean, I could say a lot to that because right now we're going to be one of the only recession-proof areas in the country. Honestly, government buys if it's good or if it's bad. It just does. So what do you have to say to that with Brooke's question here?

Yeah, I think if you're an investor looking for a short-term win, that answers itself. If you're willing to invest in a sector that will keep, to your point, Kathleen, go gangbusters over time, then this is the right sector.

I think you also shouldn't assume what anybody's sales cycle is. It depends on your kind of product and how you're selling, right? Like, our sales cycle was certainly Totally reasonable for any B2B SaaS product, right?

So Sophia's—

yeah, so like, I actually think that's less true than it used to be based on there are new kinds of technology products that can sell in a different way that don't require an RFP. Like, it really just depends on exactly— so like, there's— there is 100% that assumption from an investor, but it's not necessarily real.

Like, yeah, we gotta— we gotta debunk that. So quickly, last, um, One final piece of advice for everyone listening and joining us today. Sophia.

To all the female founders that might be listening out there, just start your company sooner than later. Don't, don't listen to all the questioning voices in your head. Don't worry about whether you are what a founder is supposed to look like. Just do it and start and follow the impact that you're creating in the market. And you will do great.

Well, thank you. Chelsea?

Yeah, as women, we are taken advantage of in terms of conveners and connectors. That is not free. Demand to be paid for the convening, connecting, and the powerful network you've built over your career. So no is a powerful answer, and no, but this is a consulting activity is also a really powerful answer. So stand up for yourself.

Thank you. Love that. And Catherine?

Yeah. So after you start your company and it's up and running, like, reach out to the other women in the space. Like, we are here and we will help you. Like, even when we are at our worst of, like, crazy pants, like, running a company. Like, I know I always did. I'm sure anybody on this call and anybody that I know who's a female founder in this space will make time for an earlier stage or later stage female founder. Like, absolutely, we will do that. So never hesitate, hesitate to ask for support or advice.

All right. Well, I love that. Well, thank you all for taking time out of your busy day. I love that I learned crazy pants. I like that. I like crazy pants. And I have never heard of manels before. So thank you. I've got some new terms to go into the weekend with. So thank you all very much. That is it for our show. This Friday. Everyone have a wonderful weekend, and we'll see you back next week. Thank you.