Rachel Parker: Family, Identity, and Resilience

Welcome back to Dot by Dot. And for our official episode 1, I am interviewing someone that I know quite a bit about, hopefully. My partner in life, in business, and otherwise for the last 18 years now, my beautiful wife, Rachel Parker. So the theme of Dot by Dot is to kind of just walk through people's lives and the journey that they took to get to where they are today. And I know half of that story and bits and pieces from the other half, of course. Why don't you start by telling us a little bit about your childhood? What was it like growing up as a 4, 5, 6, 7-year-old little Rachel?

Huh. I'm not sure what part of childhood to start at, but I'll start something that is kind of top of mind for me right now because my parents were about our age now when they made this choice is I had a great childhood. I'm the oldest in my family. Both my parents, my mom was mostly a stay-at-home mom. So I feel very fortunate to have had just a pretty stable, loving childhood. But around the time that my parents were in their mid-30s, about our age, they were just kind of itchy for a new adventure. And it's something that I think a lot about now. And they sold everything and moved us from Maryland, where we grew up kind of outside in the country outside of Baltimore, to Hawaii. And so that was a really interesting childhood experience because I went from, you know, suburbs of Maryland to being the minority on an island. And so it was, it was a cool experience. It was something that I kind of admire my parents for now because I think about how when you're in your 20s, you kind of feel like the future is wide open. You don't really know who you're going to marry, what your job is going to be, what the next 50 years of your life are going to look like. And that I think is really exciting. It's also scary. But as you get older and you start to get into your 30s, some of those big life decisions start to click into place. You know, you get married, you know who you're going to be with for the rest of your life. Hopefully. Hopefully, yes. Knock on wood if all goes well. You know, you start in a career path and and you know what you're probably going to be doing, or you can project forward at least what it would look like if you kept doing the same thing for years and years. And I can relate to that feeling of kind of restlessness that comes when there's not so much mystery in life. And for my parents, they took that on as an adventure and sold everything and moved to this tiny little island called Lanai, which most people who think of Hawaii probably don't even know where that is. It's like 17 miles in circumference, but it's really close to Maui. And it was so small that there was actually no grocery store on the island, so we would like hop on this ferry to go over to Maui to go grocery shopping and go to the Costco there because the only thing on the island was essentially like a convenience store level of a grocery store. But that is an experience that I'm really grateful for because I think it helped me as a kid to start to see the water that I was swimming in, if that makes sense. I think there's a— I think it's David Foster Wallace that has that quote about the young fish swimming and the old fish swims by and says like, "Hey, the water's really nice, isn't it?" And the fish are like, "What's water?" But starting to understand that there are people out there that live very differently than my family in Maryland did, my like Irish Catholic family, and seeing that, you know, there are different cultures, there are different races, there are different socioeconomic classes even. And so that was something in my childhood, again, that I was just really grateful for now that we're trying to recreate for our kids. So a long-winded answer, but I guess that's the part of my childhood that stands out the most.

Yeah, it's a great place to start. So when you went out to Hawaii, obviously being kind of a minority in a new place that was unfamiliar to you, and I'm sure there was lots of excitement around that kind of excursion that you had for a couple of years. But then at some point your parents decided to move back and they moved back not to a metropolitan area, but to the Eastern Shore of Maryland, which was kind of a different experience in and of itself. How does it feel or how did it feel as a little kid maybe to kind of reassimilate into a new culture, a new identity, and find your way at that point?

Yeah, it's funny because looking back, I don't remember any of it being scary or difficult. And I think, again, that's a testament to— I felt such a firm foundation with my parents and had a great secure base there that the rest of it all just kind of felt like a fun adventure that was going on. And so I'm very, again, grateful for that. But it really is amazing. I remember moving back to Maryland and people kind of making fun of the way I talked because there are just little things that people say in Hawaii, accents and things like that, and kids pick that stuff up so quickly. And so, like, one small example that I remember is in Hawaii, if you wanted something, if someone say had a snack and you wanted to try some, you would say, "I like, I like, I like." And so there are just things like that that I would say in 4th grade in Denton, Maryland, and people would be like, "What in the world is she talking about?" So it really was again like a different cultural shift, but it was simple and, you know, it's where I came from. And so it didn't take long. I think by the time we were a couple months in and just being immersed in that culture, it also felt like home, just like Hawaii did for a couple years.

Yeah, it's really fascinating. You're very modest, I think, and often don't brag on yourself, but I can as your husband because I know many of the details. And, uh, one of the things that was most, like, mind-blowing to me when we first met was that you had a full academic ride to the University of Delaware, and you were double major, honors program, DuPont Scholar, just about everything that you can imagine in terms of your academic achievements at that point. And I, I very much was not that. I was hoping to, to rub off a little bit of some of what you had around you, but that's a really impressive achievement. And for someone who kind of bounced around to a couple different schools, you know, as a young child, what do you think led to that outcome? Because obviously, you know, there's some, I think, genetics in terms of intelligence and things that go into it, but I think a lot of it is also the environment that you're raised in and maybe the expectations that were put in place for yourself or from your parents or others around you. And so what do you think led to that such high academic achievement that you had? Inside you?

Well, I mean, to some extent there's the, like, oldest daughter syndrome that people talk about. You know, I've always been very eager to please and get straight A's and all of that. And so I think that definitely created a work ethic in me around education. You know, when, when that was the scorecard for myself, I wanted to get a good scorecard. So there was that aspect. But I think larger than that, I've always just been a very curious person, and I've always loved reading and learning. I mean, when I was a kid, I remember sitting up in my bedroom on the weekends, and my grandmother gifted me her Nancy Drew collection. And I mean, I think there's dozens of those books and I would read 2 of them in a sitting because I just, I've always loved reading and learning. And I think just that interest in language and learning has always really helped me when I did go on to study in college. Languages was one of the things that I've had a love for because I love reading language in books and how authors use words to convey ideas and emotions and create imaginary worlds that you can just lose yourself in. It's just something that's always It's always drawn my curiosity and it's always made me want to keep going with it, learn more, do more. Um, and I just was fortunate that I had great teachers along the way and parents that were really supportive, and I just kept following my curiosity, I guess.

Yeah. Um, speaking of parents, what do you admire, or have you admired throughout your life most about each of your parents?

It's probably going to make me emotional just because of, um, recent stuff, but I think one of the things growing up is I've always known that my parents are incredibly good people. Um, good, honest people. And so anyone that I've known that's ever met my parents, they've never had a bad thing to say about them. And there's something that just feels really good as a kid to know that your parents are good through and through. And that sounds so simple, but I think a lot of people have to kind of make excuses for things that their parents do in their head and rationalize it and think, well, this is the person that's meant to guide me and protect me, but they have all these flaws and moral character traits that maybe they wouldn't be too proud of. And with both of my parents, I've just never had that sense. I've always known that even when no one's watching, they're both going to do the right thing. They care deeply about other people. They're not selfish. They're not materialistic. Because we always used to joke about my dad, like, his— he would wear these his holy wool socks with his Tevas. And my mom always says he never looked in the mirror once that she can remember. But both just really humble, good people. Yeah.

And how do you impart that upon our children today? You know, we've got a little 6-year-old boy and 10-year-old girl, and they're navigating through some of the same, you know, challenges and things as we did as children. And I think you and I both would, would agree that one of the most important things for our kids is, is that they're good people and that they do good things and that they're kind to others. And, uh, of course we can try to emulate that and, and be an example for them as they navigate through life's challenges. But is there any other wisdom that you can provide there in terms of how we can impart that upon our own kids? And, and I think that most people, um, would agree that our kids have a lot of that. And so there's something that they've, they've picked up on that seems to be working so far that that, you know, hopefully we can continue.

Yeah, I mean, I think some of that is just a gift from God to them directly, you know, that we can't even claim. And I always hesitate a bit because my mom will sometimes say like, oh, you've done such a good job raising your kids. And it's like, they're 6 and 10. So it's not like, whoop, job's done, they're good to go. And ultimately, you know, we won't know until they're adults and we see how they feel and reflect back to us. I hope that we live an example that is causing that and certainly try our best to. It makes me laugh because I think sometimes what I try to do is watch moments of interactions, watch things that they're seeing, and try to point out ways to interact or lessons maybe to take from the way other people act, helping them to kind of see the motivations behind other people's behavior and not just label people good or bad, but to really understand like why someone acts the way that they do. But it makes me laugh because I think sometimes with Avery, she's getting to the age where she's a little bit annoyed with that. The other day I think we were watching like King of Queens and something happened. And I tried to say something about how, well, no, he really shouldn't have done that. It's not very nice, blah, blah, blah. And Avery said, Mommy, everything doesn't have to be a life lesson. Can we just watch the TV show? So there's definitely a balance there.

Yeah, for sure. Thinking about kind of our journey as parents and, you know, we basically have been together almost every single day since I was 18 years old when we when we met. And that's led us to multiple careers, kids, all kinds of friendships and travel and interesting things that have happened in that period of time. But how would you say that marriage has changed over the course of that period of time and the relationship as a whole?

From my perspective, and you say this all the time, too, the person that you marry is one of the most important decisions that you'll make in your life. And you know, losing my dad recently and thinking about what that loss means to different people, I always think my mom is the one that's most affected because that's who she spent every day of her life with. And, you know, we have a lot of people around us, so we get to see their marriages at different stages when you're newlyweds and all of that. For me, I think in early marriage, we were both still trying to figure ourselves out a lot. I think there's a lot of excitement at that phase, but also fear, you know, you don't, even though you've made a commitment and you're married, it still feels like it's a bit tenuous, you know, I could do something wrong and mess this whole thing up. And I think for humans in general, when we're operating from a place of fear, that can, that can create some weird dynamics where like, in an attempt to protect something, you get really anxious and create conflict unnecessarily and things like that. And so to me, the earlier part of marriage was a bit more highs and lows. And I think as we get older, one of the things that I really treasure is after going through a lot of things with somebody, you start to really develop a stronger sense of trust and security that this is something that's going to persist, that I can be myself, my own imperfect self, and there's still some stability there. There's something sturdy. And I think that just frees up a lot of cognitive load that allows you to actually just enjoy the other person and enjoy life together. Not grip so tightly. And from my perspective, sitting here today at almost 40, is, I think that's where actual love starts, where you're not doing it from a self-protective place of what does it mean about me that you love me, but actually just caring about the other person and seeing that other person through highs and lows and seeing them suffer and seeing them, you know, accomplish things and grow and just really being able to feel like you're their cheerleader rather than just looking at it through what does this reflect back to me in the relationship, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I think that's true. And I think it's interesting. I think when you meet someone at such an early age that becomes your, your partner and spouse, you're still figuring out who you are yourself. And I think that you and I would probably agree that, that figuring out yourself journey is never really complete. You just kind of peel back layers of the onion each year that you go by, and especially if you're intentional about that journey. I think some people kind of find themselves on autopilot at different points in their lives, and maybe they miss, you know, a decade or two decades of personal development if they're not intentionally focused on it. But I think, you know, your marriage is kind of walking in parallel to that, and people kind of evolve and develop at different speeds at different times. Sometimes it's really fast, sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's all at once. And it's just interesting to kind of see how that interplay is connected to the marriage overall. And I think that, you know, in the 18 years that we've been together, I think that we've probably lived many different lives, you know, and we've had many incredible experiences and many highs and many lows. And I think that we always talk about how I don't think that the full picture of the marriage and kind of the— the beauty of it would, would ever fully come to fruition without the downs and the lows that are also part of that journey as well. And I think that when we go through those difficult times, whether it's, you know, loss or turmoil in the relationship or whatever it may be, there's often kind of a springtime after that where we uncover new things about our marriage, about ourselves, and about our direction moving forward. And it seems like, um, you know, over the past 2 or 3 or 4 years, you've kind of been tapping into some new interest as well. You know, we've spent the last 11 years really grinding it out in business and, and developing all of these companies and, you know, having a lot of highs and lows and fun and craziness in that world. Prior to that, we were both teachers together. Prior to that, we were both in politics together. And so we, uh, we've done a lot of crazy things together, but now you're kind of stepping out a little bit more into your own and you're exploring some new things. Um, tell me a little bit about that journey and, um, where you hope it goes.

Yeah, I think it, it sort of traces back to that oldest daughter syndrome initially. And I think a lot of women can relate to this of just building a lot of your identity when you're younger around being the good girl, getting the straight A's, helping people around you, being kind. And for me, you know, that's not the only story of my life at that phase. But there was a lot of me that was just tied up in that. And I became really fascinated with Carl Jung during this time phase, because, you know, there's a lifelong process that he calls individuation that happens. And for a lot of people, it really does reach kind of a climax point in your 30s. I think in your 20s, you're just kind of trying to fit in and trying to find a place where you're accepted, I think, trying to find a partner that's willing to, like, hitch their wagon to you for life and, and all of that. But for me, in my 30s, I kind of looked up and I knew who I was in relation to other people, but I felt like I had really lost touch with who I was as a person. And it was kind of a scary feeling, it kind of felt fragile, you know, if, if these external things would crumble like a house of cards, there's nothing in the middle, it's just all external, related to other people. And so I think my journey started small. I've always, as I mentioned before, loved writing stories. I would do it for fun as a kid. I've loved reading books as long as I knew how to read. I've loved to read. And I just started giving myself a little bit of time to dip into that. So I had been kind of working in fits and starts on a novel. I started taking that more seriously and started taking writing classes, which I really loved. And then that grew into taking other writing classes where I've met more friends who encouraged me to start publishing my writing online, diving deeper into my interest in psychology and learning about attachment and, you know, Jungian psychology and getting into Jungian analysis. And, and from there, just, you know, I still don't know really where it's going to lead. But it feels like it's kind of woken something up inside of me that I'm really excited about. And that I think about often when I'm spending time around women that are 10 years younger than me and just see how much of themselves they're pouring into other people, and want for them too to have this feeling of something that's sturdy and bright and energetic inside of themselves that— a famous Jungian analyst called— named James Hollis, who's amazing if anybody wants to look him up, but he always talks about Jung saying, "What supports you when nothing else supports you?" And to me, that's like that house of cards thing. What if God forbid, like, someone really close to you dies, your marriage falls apart, your business fails, you know, what's going to carry you through that hard time? You have to have something sturdy and something inside of you that's a sense of purpose or meaning. And I don't mean that in a pressure-filled, you know, if you don't have a grand purpose, you're not living. But I think we all do have those pieces inside of us if we're willing to go look for them. And for me, I just, I'm really excited about this phase of life because I feel like I'm starting to pick at that a little bit and kind of figure out maybe who I am and what small way my life could contribute.

So yeah, I think you and I both are big fans of Viktor Frankl as well, and the book Man's Search for Meaning, which I know is, you know, has been read by millions and millions of people at this point. But his concept of logotherapy, I think, is really kind of resonates as we explore what our own purpose, what our own meaning is, and how we can lean into the circumstances in our lives, regardless of what they are in that moment, to find particular meaning. And I think that you've, you've been pulled towards a direction that seems to be really kind of filling for you. And I think it's, it's especially difficult for a mom, a mom who, you know, they have mom guilt and, you know, they are the caretakers in a different way than the father is. I think that requires a little bit more emotional support and And it's two-way, you know, you have a little bit more emotional calling, I think, towards that role. You're also, you know, playing wife and doing a great job at that. And then we have, you know, businesses that we still collaborate on and work very hard in as well. And so I can imagine there's a tension and a pull in all these different directions. And how do you kind of reconcile all that? And I know that there's so many women in the world that share, you know, those same feelings. And many of them, I think, won't step out and take the risks and maybe at the fear of feeling self-indulgent to some extent to kind of walk down roads that actually are maybe their actual calling and their purpose and meaning. And so what advice might you have for people that are kind of navigating through those same journeys and thoughts?

I think the first thing that I would say is it's never perfect. And, you know, there's— something's always not being done or, you know, getting dropped or, you know, there's always a sense that I could be doing better in some aspect of life. And so I don't want to certainly make it seem like I have it figured out. Um, one thing kind of going back to the dot-by-dot experience that I've really appreciated about our lives is, you know, when you look back, you can't see how the things that you've learned in the past are going to help you in the future. But real estate is certainly never anything I would have imagined as a child that I would have gotten into, you know, and there are some ways in which it's so like antithetical to my personality of like, you know, learning sales and putting yourself out there and stuff like that. But I think it's been so good for me because a lot of times what holds us back is just a fear of rejection, a fear of people saying no to us or not connecting with us. And for anyone that's not in real estate, you get a lot of practice of people telling you no. You getting up in front of somebody, pitching to them why you're the best choice, why they should list their home with you or buy a home through you. And I mean, when leads come in, it's what, like a 4% conversion rate? So we talk to 100 people, 96 of them will likely say no. Some of them are gonna yell at you, some of them are gonna hang up the phone on you, some of them are just gonna ghost you. And so you start to get really comfortable with rejection. And I think that was a really important thing. And unfortunately, like a lot of things in life, that's not something you can just intellectualize yourself through. You have to get up and swing the bat and miss a bunch of times. It's like a muscle, and the more you do it, the more comfortable you get with it. And so I think in one sense that was really helpful to me because I'm not afraid to fail, you know, and I'm not afraid to be embarrassed that I'm writing and putting it out in the world. And I know that a lot of people aren't going to like it. I've, you know, been rejected trying to get things published nonstop. And I think one great thing for me is that that doesn't really scare me. It doesn't stop me because I've seen in the real estate realm how you just have to keep going. Like it's a numbers game and it's a resilience game. So I think that's one thing. And then the other thing, just as a mom and trying to balance everything, is I would say twofold there. One, a long time ago now, I don't even remember when, we heard Hal Elrod, I think it was, talk about the morning routine. I think his book is The Miracle Morning, but we just listened to a video, I want to say, of his. But it is so true that the way you start your day is so important. And so for me, what I've been doing for the past, I don't know, 5, 10 years now is waking up at 5 or 5:30 in the morning, an hour or two before anybody else gets up, and really using that as my time to work on writing, you know, meditate, do gratitude journaling, things of that nature. And, and always exercise. That's always been a really important one for me just to start my day off on the right foot. And when I, when I can fit those things in, in a time that really feels totally my own, you know, it's it's very quiet in the house. You're at the gym, usually the kids are asleep. And so I don't feel like I'm taking anything away from anyone else. And it also just kind of starts my day off in momentum. So I think that's been really helpful. And then the second thing I would say is really my focus for this year, but I think it, it helps a lot, is I tend to be very in my head and always have like 15 tabs open in the browser of my mind. And I'm really working hard on meditating and just trying to be more present in the moments that I'm in because with our kids, we can spend 3 hours with them but be on our phone the whole time, be distracted, not really be paying attention to them, and it might as well have been zero. Or we can spend 30 minutes with them, really focused, engaged, looking them in the eye, being fully present and embodied in the moment that we're in. And I can see the shift in them when I'm really giving them that quality of attention. And so I think making the most of the time that I have with the kids, with the people in front of me in general, I think it's better for relationships. It's makes me feel better, makes them feel better. And then also just being thoughtful about when I'm doing things that feel more like personal pursuits.

Yeah, I think that's great. If anyone wants practice in rejection specifically, I think sales and business and also politics are really, really great mediums for that. Because when you're, when you're selling anything, whether it's a candidate or a product or service, you know, you're going to be rejected a bunch of times. And I think the more comfortable we can get with rejection, the easier it becomes, but also I think the better we get. You know, we're learning each time that we get rejected and we're finding new strategies and new tools and tips to make that process a little bit better and smoother for the people that we're selling it to, essentially.

Yeah, and it does suck. It hurts. Like, it's not fun, but you have to go through it to get better.

Yeah, absolutely. And when we think about presence specifically, I'm glad you brought that up. I find that it is hard, I think, today in this society where we have this, like, doom scroll constantly in front of us calling at us to pick up our phones, to check the notifications, to do all these things. There's like endless options of entertainment around us, you know, where those things could be— we could be at the movies, we could be on our phones, we could be playing anything, you know, there's just endless options. And so beyond the meditation piece, which you mentioned, how can we maybe ground ourselves a little bit more and try to be present in those moments? Because I would also argue that there's some level of peace and like fleeting happiness in the moments that are purely present, where we're just kind of lost in that moment itself. And I think for most people, for me at least, I think they're really rare. I think that there's, there's times where we're maybe we're really focused on being present and we're like 80% of the way there, but there's still 20% of our brain that's problem solving or thinking about what's next or what happened in the past. And I think that those, like, those very short, fleeting moments of pure presence where we're just lost in the moment itself are some of, like, the happiest and maybe the most meaningful for, for us, but also the people that we're, we're in presence with. How can we get there?

I feel woefully unqualified to answer this, but I'll say what seems to be working for me, because I think the reason it's a focus for me is because I think I'm particularly bad at it. I love daydreaming. You know, I'm always writing the next thing in my head or thinking thinking or playing out imagined future scenarios or, you know, I'm really bad about this naturally and so I have to work on it. The one thing I would say first is that with meditation, what I think is the best about it is kind of similar to going through rejection. To me, it's like building a mental muscle and it's not something that only happens in a 10-minute meditation session, which is all that I've ever been able to do so far. But in that meditation session, what I'm doing constantly is is noticing when my thoughts wander and bringing myself back to the present moment, practicing tapping in. And a big one for me, which I think I've mentioned to you, is I'm a very visual person. So if I can stop and force myself to use my ears, use a different sense that's not quite as strongly developed, for me personally, I've found success in that. So just tuning into the background noise around me— is it birds chirping? Is it the HVAC system humming or something like that? That kind of starts to feel more embodied for me. There's this neuroscientist that uses a term called sense foraging, which is similar. You might have heard people say like, sit in the room that you're in and pick out 5 things that are green, or, you know, 2 things you can hear, 1 thing you can smell, things like that. But that's really helpful. But just catching myself as much as I can, I think that's what meditation has started to do for me is help me to catch myself when I'm not present and realize, you know, you're sitting in the car driving your kids and you're thinking about what you need to do at the office when you get there instead of actually enjoying the time that you're there. So for me, with meditation, that's been the biggest one is just catching myself when I'm not present. And I'm think— I'm hoping that where that's going to keep going is having more and more moments of connection. I think another one is just kids are really helpful for that. Kids are always living in the present moment. My dad used to say this all the time. It's like they are totally there, you know, they're, they're 100% in when they're telling you an exciting story. They're not also running their to-do list in their head. They're excited about the story that they're telling you. They're dancing around, they're uninhibited, and so learning from our kids has also been helpful for me.

Yeah, I find that really grounding too when I force myself to kind of stop and just look into their faces and see, you know, how they're experiencing the world around them. I think that it's also a reminder of how like fleeting that time is. You know, we get the memories in our social media where we can look back a year or two, 5 years ago, and it's always mind-blowing to me like how different they were at those time periods and how, how that time just like evaporated because, you know, we spend so much time with them, we see them every day that we don't notice the little changes that are happening, those micro changes that are happening every single day. But I think sometimes when we force ourselves to stop and like look and study their faces for a minute and realize that like this little tiny human being will not look like this for much longer. In fact, in 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 weeks from now, they will look different than they do today and they're changing so fast. And I think that that like reminder of like this like fleeting presence that we have around us, I think helps ground us a little bit and bring us back to those moments.

Yeah, for sure.

So as we think about some of the dots that we've had kind of in our lives that kind of build that story in reverse for us, obviously moving to Hawaii was a big one for you. You had then, you know, very successful academic career through high school and college. But you, I think for a period of time, maybe similar to me, were thinking that you were going to be a foreign diplomat or go into some international field maybe that you decided against. What originally led to that thought and why did you maybe shift the direction?

This is very embarrassing because I'm pretty sure that the thought almost solely came from Mary-Kate and Ashley's movie in the late '90s when their grandfather was the ambassador to France. And I already liked the French language. I just, I think that that little seed was like, wow, that would be so cool.

I don't think I knew that story.

Yeah. I mean, obviously as I got, got older, I had different reasons. I loved learning languages and traveling and all of that and had those kinds of experiences. But I think, I think this is similar for a lot of people where you romanticize what a job would be. I think this happens a lot of times with like attorneys or the best example to me is owning a coffee shop. I think there are a lot of people that think like, "Oh, it would be such a fun romantic thing to own a coffee shop because I would just like wear a cool beanie and read a fancy novel and sip on coffee all day." But really the things that you need to like in order to run a coffee shop are, do you like inventory, customer service, like stocking things? And that's not really what most people are envisioning in the day-to-day. And I think for me, the older that we get, my dad always used to say, "You have to figure out what you don't want to do to figure out what you do want to do with jobs." And I've never been great at like corporate political maneuvering in jobs. And I think I would imagine to get to the point of the ambassador to another country, you would have to be really good at that. And I just, I don't know, I think the older that I got, I saw the types of environments that I enjoyed working in, the types of tasks that I enjoyed doing. And it was never in an organization that large. It was never in having to be so strategic in what you say and how you say it and walk on eggshells politically. That's just, it's not something I'm very good at. As you know, I put my foot in my mouth all the time. And I just think there's a lot of reasons why it probably wasn't actually a very good fit for me. And it was more just the movie version of Mary-Kate and Ashley that looked good.

Yeah, I think it's, it's most people make those kind of mistakes maybe when they're early on in their careers and think that the title is what they were chasing, not necessarily the actual responsibilities of the job itself.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the other thing I should say is I did have a chance to work in politics and, um, you know, that's where you and I met. We were working on political campaigns. I worked for the Maryland governor's office for a long time. And I think a lot of really incredible people work in the public sector and are able to affect really awesome change in that way. And people, some people are just really gifted at being inspiring leaders in that way, at pushing forward objectives that matter to them through really large and inert organizations. I didn't love that for myself. I like to be closer to the work that I'm doing. I think I like to be more on the ground, seeing the person in front of me, seeing the impact that I'm having, and doing it in a smaller way where I have a little bit more, you know, creative control over what I do, and I'm not speaking for someone else.

So from going to, uh, going into politics, uh, and then, uh, we kind of landed in education, which would, would maybe be another dot from there. I always felt like when we were, when we were teachers, there was a part of you that kind of felt that as part of your calling, that it seemed like it was, it was something that came really natural to you. And I'm curious, is that something you think you would ever return to or a version of that at some point in the future?

Yeah, I could, I could see that. I, I have always had a really big soft spot in my heart for children. I just, when I see children suffer, that— it's gonna make me emotional right now, but I just— that's the, the thing that makes me the most angry and the most sad in the whole world is to see innocent children suffer. And so as a teacher, having the opportunity to interact with so many children, get them excited about learning, but also hopefully give them a little bit of a boost of self-worth and showing children that they have innate value, that there are people that care about them, um, is something that I was really passionate about and still am. What was hard for me about teaching, and I think as you get older and a little bit less self-conscious, it gets easier, but when you're a teacher, and I think again, this is something you might not really think about if you've never done it before, but you have to be on every day. You're essentially an actor on a stage, and you have, you know, 20, 30 little sets of eyes looking at you, mirroring your energy. You're directing their future in a small way every single day, and that is a lot of pressure. And for me, as someone that's more introverted, I think that was hard for me, especially in the first couple years of just learning what it meant to be a teacher, how to manage a classroom, and all of those things. So that aspect of it, I think, was more taxing than maybe it would be now as I'm a little bit older and just more comfortable with myself, and it wouldn't feel so self-conscious to be up in front of students every day. I think that part was a little bit tricky, but I definitely, especially after becoming a parent, I think that's only increased my passion to want to be more of a force for happiness for children in the world. And so I could see maybe going back to it at some point in the future, and I don't have any sense how that would fit into our lives, but it's something that I would like to keep on the table.

I'm going to end with, um, kind of just an observation that I've had, and I know that, um, external observations don't always necessarily match our internal perceptions of the world around us. But I think most people, especially people that know you really well, would say that you are generally a very happy person, a very content person, and that you can find yourself in a variety of situations that most people would consider really challenging or difficult and somehow still find peace and meaning and happiness in those moments. And, you know, again, while our internal stories are completely different than the way that the rest of the world observes us, I'm curious your thoughts on that and maybe what led to that, at least externally, perception that people have of you through challenging moments, because it's a unique skill, I think, that I many times envy, you know, when I, my mood swings foods and mental health can be a roller coaster ride at times. And it feels like when you're down, it's like impossible to get out of the down. And I'm mostly just curious, how do you see that and feel that and receive that? And what tips maybe do you have for others to find some of that?

Well, it's interesting because you don't know what anyone else's internal experience is besides your own. And so I certainly spend a lot of time rehashing mistakes that I made in my head or feeling anxious, less so now than I used to. But from a general standpoint, I do think I've always felt a sense of resilience that I will be okay. At this age, what I attribute that to is something that, you know, I'm passionate about is just attachment. I think for kids, when we are born, we have only one survival strategy. And that is that someone who is bigger and stronger than us loves us enough to take care of us. And it is a really deep-seated belief with me that when we don't get that, that's a hole that's really hard to go back and fill later. And so I think I was very blessed to have had a really loving relationship with my parents. And I think that creates a little bit of a foundation in me that was just purely luck of the draw, you know. That being said, I have really struggled with anxiety over the course of my life, you know, and as you know, to the point of panic attacks, and, and that being a real difficult situation for me. And I think one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about learning about psychology and neuroscience and all these things is because I really think when we can start to understand where this is coming from in us, that gives us better leverage points to try to start to fix these things. And And something I always say to people when they express that kind of stuff to me is the worst thing that we can do is beat ourselves up for feeling anxious. It's like you have this bodily emotion, and now you have a mental suffering on top of it, beating yourself up for something that you can't control. And so I think the biggest shift for me in my overall sense of calm and steadiness inside was when I started learning about the nervous system. And so for anyone that has this feeling of sometimes just being out of control of your anxiety or fear, things just kind of getting away from you. An amazing resource for this, her name is Deb Dana, and she is a clinical therapist, and she has translated this theory by Dr. Stephen Porges, who's a researcher, called polyvagal theory. But essentially, it just maps the three circuits of our nervous system. And the best place for us to be, and I think we all kind of like what you were saying, when we have these moments of presence that just feel really good, what they would call that is when you're in ventral vagal state. And that's a state where you don't feel fear, you don't feel threat in any way. And so your body is able to stay calm and collected and therefore connected to other people. You're warm, you're open because you feel safe being vulnerable. The next level up is sympathetic fight or flight, which is I think what most people think of when they think of like their nervous system. System. And that is like the scared animal in the corner that is just ready to attack if it needs to, ready to flee, but always feels a bit on edge. And then the hardest one is when that doesn't work for a long time, people go into what's called dorsal vagal shutdown. And that's when you kind of dissociate, depression, everything is meaningless. It's almost like your body can only maintain anxiety for so long before it flips into that. And so I realize that's all like a science lesson. But for me, starting to understand it from a nervous system lens, and not just a, I'm experiencing anxiety, and there's some cognitive thing that I should be thinking, but really noticing that this is in my body, I need to intervene in my body in order to fix it, was the best thing that I've ever done for myself in that way. And so I read the book Anchored by Deb Dana, which is written just for this purpose. And it really changed my life. And so I think, you know, even if previously I might have looked calm from the outside, I was feeling very anxious on the inside. Now most of the time I feel neutral to positive, and I really do credit it with starting with my nervous system.

That's great. If people want to continue following your writing and your journey, where can they find you?

Well, I, thanks to you, bought the domain of my name. So rachelparker.com is where I'm putting all my writing. And then every other week I'm writing essays about my favorite novels and looking at them through a neuroscience lens to kind of learn these lessons through another story. And that's on Substack and it's Fragments of Humanity. But yeah, that's where I'm putting all my stuff out into the world. Awesome.

Well, thank you for spending some time with us today and sharing your journey for the rest of the world to hear since I know so much of it. Continue to peel back the layers of the onion every day to the greatest extent that I can. But this episode is complete, and thank you again.

It was fun. Thanks.