Byte-Sized and Bossy featuring an energizing conversation with Dyan Khor, VP of Growth at Claim

Today's episode is sponsored by Claim. Before we get into it though, let's talk about how to grow revenue for a second. Everyone knows regulars are the lifeblood of your restaurants and they are the key to sales. You've built your whole loyalty and retention strategy around them, but how do you create new ones? Well, that's where our friends at Claim come in. Claim is a new one-of-a-kind performance marketing platform built for restaurants to win and grow sales. They're helping best-in-class brands like Blink Street and Sweetfin acquire regulars, and they're— they'll guarantee you at least $2 For every dollar you put in, and if you want to learn more, you just head over to claim.co/marketers and tell them we sent you, and they'll give you $500 off your first campaign with them.

Bite size and bossy rising up the ranks, handing out encouragement deposits in their banks. Inspiration coming at you like a river flowing. Women paving paths look at them going. Bite size and bossy rising up. All right.

Hello, I'm Erin, and I'm Tammy, and this is Bite-Sized and Bossy.

We're getting pretty good. Much better.

Yeah, we're getting better. A little bit.

Cut off a couple bars of that track though. It's just too long.

Oh, I mean, I like it. It's it's the jam.

Do it. It just takes it. We just gotta fix that.

I yeah, sorry. Well, we're excited for our guests today. Uh, Dyan Khor. She's the head of growth for Claim, and she's here to talk a little bit about that, a little bit about herself, and we'll see where the conversation goes. But welcome, Dyan.

Hi, so great to be here with you guys.

Oh my gosh, we're so excited to have you. So, uh, I've gotten to meet you before, and I love, uh, your energy. So for folks at home that don't, or listeners that don't know anything about you, if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Yeah. So as you mentioned, currently the head of VP of growth at Claim. Prior to that was the head of growth marketing at Cash App. Have spent my entire career in growth for mainly mobile apps on the consumer side, everything from gaming to restaurant tech to travel tech to fintech, and just love figuring out how we solve interesting problems, but also make really great products that people really want to use.

Well, so you're at Claim. What does Claim do? I'm new and I actually don't know what they do.

Yeah. So I'm pretty new to Claim too, but I started advising them earlier this year, met them through a wonderful VC friend and was just like, wow, this is all of my favorite things. So Claim works with restaurants who are looking to acquire customers. And imagine you're a restaurant owner and you have to put some marketing budget into something and people think about Facebook ads, things like that. If you run a Facebook ad, how are you supposed to know if someone came into the restaurant? That's incredibly hard to figure out. And we know restaurants are incredibly small margin businesses. And so every dollar counts, but the CACs get pretty high when you can't really optimize towards anything. And so what Claim does is they've created a marketplace where on the consumer side, they're acquiring customers who are interested in going to restaurants and they're giving them offers to these places. And we're able to, through the Plaid Link, show, hey, this customer actually went to your restaurant. And so—

Okay.

You have the impression through an offer, the customer gets to try a new place that they love. And The, the restaurant gets to know like, hey, Erin had never been to, uh, Five Guys before. Now she's been to Five Guys.

So the discount happens because you're connected to the bank through Plaid. So it works a little bit like, uh, Thanks, I would imagine.

Yeah, a little bit like that. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

Um, you're getting, you're acquiring new, yeah, yeah. New customers, right? Okay. Um, I got it. Also, Facebook used to have where you could like track foot traffic. They had, that was like one of the KPIs you could set up in Facebook and then they got rid of it. And it makes you question why they got rid of it, right?

But what about Google? Because Google's got Google Maps attached to it, so could you see traffic that way?

Um, sometimes, but also like with Google, then for paid search and everything, they went to PMax and then it became like behind a closed door. And like, they'd be like, we, we're gonna tell you it made you a lot of money. You may or may not ever believe us or know, and we're not gonna let you behind the door. So like, There's, it's interesting because you guys are literally showing people.

Yeah.

What happened?

Doesn't get any more real proof than saying like, hey, this person hadn't been here in the last 6 months. Now they have been here and it's shown on their credit card. Right. But attribution sucks for everyone, but it definitely sucks the most for restaurants. So, um, you know, I've been complaining about this for the last like 5 years since these iOS changes. And then I thought about it in the context of restaurants and it's like, yeah, I've had it pretty good, to be honest.

Wait, and honestly, so anything outside of restaurants would be having it much better because I think the statistic is something like 70 to 80% of customers are unknown or one-and-done guests. So how are you supposed to track, uh, anything, know who your customers are to remarket to them? Uh, it's a pain in the ass. And, uh, love to hear how marketers can learn to solve that problem.

Yeah.

So. When you think about, like you said, you worked at Cash App. I only know Cash App because people have been like, do you have Cash App? Like, you can send me cash. And I was like, I don't want to send you cash. I never want to send anyone cash.

What's your handle, Erin? Maybe someone will send you cash.

Because I'm like, I'm not sending you cash. It's not gonna happen. Like, I finally got over the hurdle of like getting Venmo because someone only took that as payment. And I was like, I still was at the, can I write you a check?

Was it on your OnlyFans account?

Yes, exactly. Just send— just if anyone wants to send me money though, that's Totally fine. But Cash App, like, what—

so what did growth—

what were you doing for Cash App?

Yeah, so I came into Cash App in 2020, and they actually didn't have a growth team yet. So I was the first to join, just come in, figure things out. And Cash App is like Venmo, so you're sending people or receiving money. Um, but that's, you know, it grows the way that, like, your, your audiences grow. So If I'm friends with you guys, I'm like, the only way I'm paying you back for lunch is if you download Cash App. Then you're like, okay, fine, I'll download Cash App. But that extends only from your network, right? And so as Cash App started to develop more products, we had a debit card, banking, investing, Bitcoin. There was a little bit more value there to be had besides just like, hey, your friend needs to pay you back.

Yeah.

So they were interested in like, okay, we're not exactly sure where the LTV is going to be for new customer acquisition. But do we think that we have enough to get the CAC and LTV to work out here? And so a lot of the first things that we tested were in paid marketing to just get beyond that initial network. Like, where do we need to go? Cash App was really strong in the South, but not as strong in the Northeast or like kind of like coastal elites, like people who went to college. Why?

Like, is it because Northeast people don't trust each other? Like, why? Why? I don't know. Like, I'm just, I'm guessing here.

It's funny because I live in the Northeast.

I was gonna say, wait a minute, you guys are much closer to that area.

Yeah, so, uh, it's actually just a nuance of how these platforms started. So like I was mentioning, like, people tend to join off of other people who joined.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Cash App did this like big kind of like cultural brand, uh, moment of just like thinking about, okay, uh, for these areas of people who are really sending a lot back and forth, a lot of them are paycheck to paycheck, things like that. And so they were going after a very different audience with the initial product and initial marketing and working with like podcasts and also with a lot of artists who really associated with that. And so you create a lot of density around one audience. What Venmo did was, what's another audience that really likes to send money back and forth and splits things a lot? And that was college students. And that was like around like 2010s.

That's fair.

And so they really took over colleges and it just split. So it was like Venmo owns like the kind of like middle market, like the, uh, coastal elites who are still developing their funds and still sending money back and forth, whereas Cash App was a little bit lower market. But that's also why like the banking and the cards were interesting. Not all these people can be Chase customers. There's minimums, things like that. So it was about figuring out kind of that product market fit and then being able to start to acquire more of those customers who wanted, uh, the total financial What are the limitations?

Like, why don't we see more adoption in restaurant of those payment solutions? Like, why? I would love to be able to go into, you know, McDonald's, Burger King, whatever, and be able to just pay by Venmo.

I Venmo the bartenders sometimes.

Well, that's, that's the topic for maybe editing out.

Yeah, so, um, there, there is actually like some movement towards this with different POS systems because The major difficulty is always just like getting a restaurant to integrate a new technology. If they've been using an existing provider, it's like, hey, like switch your provider to something that's going to use this and getting the restaurant POS systems to integrate with new payment systems can also be challenging, especially if it isn't the best thing for their margins. Right. And so it just depends on what they're doing.

Yeah, I guess that's kind of a question, right? So is it because when you do like the payment, I'm not an expert in payment processing, but when you do payment processing, obviously there's a fee. So, is there a fee on the back end? Because like as the consumer, we perceive this transfer from sort of phone to phone as being free. So, the restaurant is— are you saying that sometimes these sort of apps, they're maybe the reason it's slow to adopt is because the fees might be greater than processing on its own? Yeah.

I mean, I'm, I'm not sure of the exact breakdown. It depends on, you know, what your contract looks like for credit versus looking at something like Cash App or Venmo. Basically, the difference is transactions between people are okay to be free, but if you are a business, you have to document those transactions, and then there's also a cost associated with them. I don't think that it's actually usually higher than credit card processing fees, but figuring out like instead how to go through a POS system, because what you don't necessarily want to do is like if you're Burger King, you're not having like individual employees with their phones, right? Like, it has to be through like the POS where you're able to then account for, uh, your total sales and all that kind of stuff. So—

Or some of these kiosks, right? Like, they have scanners now in the kiosk. So what, couldn't I just take my Venmo app and—

Exactly. But those, uh, POS systems need to integrate. So you have things like Cash App Pay, um, and like things like that that are integrated sometimes. But a lot of it's in e-commerce or, for example, at Square terminals because Cash App is owned by Block, which is the same company as Square. And so gradually you can start to see that. But there's also a huge like adoption, like, you know, product marketing thing of like, hey, you have to tell consumers that they can go in and pay. And it's like, okay, at that point it's like, oh, we've heard a lot. We'd heard a lot of people say like, oh, the money in my Cash App's like my fun money. Like I don't really keep track of it. Like it's not real. It's kind of like girl math.

Girl dinner, girl math. We got our own language.

If you put it on your credit card, it's like, oh my God, this is Real, right? But then credit cards also come with points. So just like thinking about like what would motivate someone to pay with Cash App Pay versus—

yeah, what perks am I getting?

Yeah, it totally makes sense. I think for people who don't really optimize towards points or don't have credit cards and they have a balance, they're like, oh my God, amazing, someone just sent me this $100 that they owed me and now I can go like get my groceries, like, yeah, right? But that's a more specific use Gotcha.

Well, first of all, if anyone out there that's listening wants to Venmo me, they can find me. They can just like type my name, and I'm totally open to people sending me free money. I just felt like that needed to be said. But I also, like, in my natural stalking of you, Dyan, I found that you were a career— you were a career strategist. You worked with people on their careers. Tell me more on how you went from like growth, growth, growth, growth, growth, Now I'm giving career advice back to growth. Like, where did that happen? How and what were you helping? And maybe you could help me.

So I—

Let's start piece by piece.

Um, so I think like I've always been super interested in like, how do you grow yourself and your career? And I started doing like stuff in tech and stuff in, in marketing and analytics when I was 17.

Oh my gosh.

Just figuring out like, how do you get your first job? How do you start to level up and get a promotion? How do you negotiate an offer? Like, no one was teaching me this stuff because all my peers were, you know, 17, 19.

Yeah.

Things like that. They're just like, you know, trying to do fun stuff. And so I felt like I taught myself a lot of things along the way. And then I had a lot of people start to come to me and say like, hey, I would love to learn how you got here because I was accelerating my career pretty fast. And so just natural outreach from folks made me realize that, hey, like, there might be something here. And so originally I was doing this just completely for free. Like, what had originally happened was during COVID I'd gotten laid off from Hopper, and I very quickly found a new job because I had, you know, put so much effort into my network, my career, and I wrote a Medium post about it. And after I wrote that Medium post, I had just like hundreds of people reaching out to me being like, hey, could you look at my resume? Could I get some advice? And so For 2 years I was doing like, okay, every Friday for an hour or 2, I will meet with a woman, a person of color, someone who's in the growth field who feels like they could use a little bit of coaching and just like something completely pro bono. I realized it was a little bit hard to keep up with all of these people.

I can relate so much.

Yeah. Every single week, a new person. It's like, okay, I can answer like your questions for 15, 30 minutes, But I wanted to be able to make a deeper connection with people. And so a lot of my like kind of work friends had coached me into like, you know, like you're really good at this. You should just build a little bit of a business out of it. And like, if you wanna follow up with someone, but you're gonna dedicate like hours over weeks, over months to someone's job search or someone's coaching, it's fair that maybe you should get paid for that.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, let me think about it. And so I started to do that as well. And so, yeah, just like trying to figure out what the best path forward is. But, you know, as a person who has had a lot of career growth, also helped a lot of people grow their careers when they've been on my teams, it's just something that's mutually fulfilling, like love to help people out with stuff, but gives me a lot of gratification as well.

Yeah, I can absolutely relate to that because I feel like I'm one of those people that people call right away when they lose their job. And I always kind of know stuff that's happening and have such a this huge network that I'm able to sort of provide some quick knowledge. Um, but it does get overwhelming and it's really hard, uh, to dedicate that time. And I know personally I'm told time and again I should charge for it, but I always feel so bad because they're in like a bad position if they're looking for help. So, um, how do you market it? Like, how do you get people— how do you get people to pay you?

Honestly, a great question. Um, I definitely— I think that this is like such like honestly like a woman thing to like feel guilty for like charging people for something. Yes. just like, am I qualified to do this? But it was just like, okay, like dozens of people are asking me for this. So like, yeah, yeah, like the answer is probably yes. But then it's like, what is the right amount? Like, what's the right structure? All that kind of stuff.

You just hit the nail on the head.

What's your website so that if people are out there listening to you and like they want— they're like, oh my gosh, she speaks to me, I need her advice, I need help— how do they find you for that coaching?

Yeah, it's, um, you can find me on LinkedIn or my website's my name, dyankhor.com. Yeah. But yeah, the way that I started marketing it was honestly just like every so often posting a little bit of content. But I'm also on this platform called Intro, and a lot of people seem to be looking to find career advice on there as well. It's a mix of either people who want growth advice or people who want career advice. And a lot of them, they're booking like this platform takes fees. So it's like 15 minutes for—

Oh.

like a small amount of money. And my feedback to them is like, hey, like, I'm not sure that I can solve all of these problems in 15 minutes. Like, even like a resume review plus like a couple interview questions, like, yeah, can't really be done in 15 minutes. But, um, like, if we want to work together, like, I can do coaching off of that. And just like, I had, you know, maybe like 5, 10 people come in one month, like, trying to do these like 15, 30-minute one-time sessions. And About half of them were interested in something longer term.

And so that's awesome. That's great. Yeah.

And then like, I think there's definitely more that I could do in terms of like promoting that on LinkedIn and all that kind of stuff. But for me, it's just like a, especially if someone reaches out to me, um, on LinkedIn, I'm just like, yeah, like if I think that I can help, like definitely happy to figure out how to work something out with them.

But I think from like a female-male perspective, and not to make this a female-male thing, but like you hit the nail on the head when you said that it's kind of a woman thing to like, be like, how do I charge for this? Like, I wanna help. And we don't see the same thing happen. Like, I had— when I was looking for my first executive coach, um, there was plenty of men to choose from. Yeah, that I could find. And I was like, no, I really would like to work with a woman. And that was a little more challenging. And sitting down with a woman who knew her worth and could say like, here's what I charge, I was like very impressed by.

Yeah, I think that's exactly it, where the first couple of people who approached me were women and often women of color. And they were like, I just like looked all over LinkedIn to find someone who I felt had expertise in my field, but that I could relate to. And like, I think there are a lot of career coaches out there and like, absolutely no shade to these people, but that just haven't really been in the particular industry or are so far removed from the industry. And so.

Yeah.

A lot of the feedback was just like, I love that you're still doing growth work. I'm looking to grow my career in growth and I would love to understand how you think about it as a hiring manager, how you think about it as a leader, how I can develop my skillset. And so that really reinforced it to me of just like, yeah, there's unique value that I can add here. The same thing with writing content around growth where honestly every person that everyone recommends for subscribing to blogs is some guy who then becomes a VC or something, you know.

Well, that's exactly how we ended up here.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, and I, I respect a lot of those people. But, um, every time I put something out, people are like, oh, it's great to see a different perspective. And so, um, I think that there's a lot of value to add through representation.

Agreed. Um, you also mentioned your network, so it sounds like you might have an incredible network. So if you were giving people advice out there, um, like what's the value of a network, or what are some great tips on building that Authentically, not just growth, right? Like not just acquiring, but actually like building a network. So give some folks some of your tips.

Totally. So I think like a lot of people do the thing where they just like add a bunch of people on LinkedIn and send some kind of form message. And I find that super weird. I don't like accepting those unless it's like a very interesting company, but those are often the people who—

To be clear, I connected with you today. I connected with you today.

I know who you are, so that's okay. Hold on, I'm gonna do it right now. I think like the people who are like, you clearly added like 200 people today and are just hoping that like some will convert. Like, that's not networking. You know, I think like networking requires an individual connection. And even when people send messages, whether it's about like a job they want to apply to on my team or making a connection, like if you don't ask for something specific and have a conversation, that person isn't actually in your network. Like, it's like, cool.

Yeah.

You have this person's LinkedIn, but you don't really have anything else. And so Like, for example, when I was like 18, 19, like moving to San Francisco all the time to try to find these tech internships, a lot of it was just like knocking on doors.

Mm-hmm.

Not literally, but like sending cold emails, sending cold LinkedIn, and figuring out like, what's an interesting way to literally make a connection with this person? Like, what can I find on their website to be able to ask them about? And then what is the ask? It's like, I'll buy you coffee. I would love to understand like how growth product works at Pinterest. I noticed that you guys are building out this platform service or something like that. And that actually worked. Like, I got invited to Pinterest by their head of growth product when I was 18, and he was someone who ended up being like an incredible influence and just like fantastic writers, someone that I really enjoy their content. And just being able to learn from him for a little while was so useful. And so I think that's a huge one. Honestly, though, I think that like one of the really, really important ones for me was figuring out like the path from who are the coworkers that, you know, and then being able to move that forward and just like finding like generosity within people. Like, I think it's like a huge pay it forward on networking where I always encourage everyone that I know where I'm like, hey, if you're looking for a role and you are like looking through all these people on LinkedIn, you never know who your second connect is going to be. Like, you don't need to be connected with the person themselves. But if someone reaches out to me and says like, Hey, do you know Erin? Like, now I'd be like, oh, totally. Like, I think I could reach out to her over email. Like, what's the ask? Right? Ask makes sense. Like, I'll be like, okay. But if it's someone that I don't know, like I've never actually talked to, I'll be like, hey, sorry, I don't actually know this person.

Yeah.

But if that person didn't know Erin, like them reaching out to her cold versus me being like, yeah, I've had like some solid conversation with her, like totally makes a difference. And so I think it's always worth asking as long as you know what you're asking for.

And also who you're asking, right? Like, I have plenty of people who reach out to me who I haven't talked to in forever, right? Or maybe ever. And they're like, hey, do you know so-and-so? Can you introduce me?

Yeah.

I don't even know you.

Yeah, exactly. Like, we should probably build a relationship first before you ask me for all my introductions, right?

Yeah, exactly. So it's like your first connections, like making those really strong so that if there are things that you can do, but then the converse is also equally as important where if someone reaches out to me, I'm just like, okay, if there's something that I can do, I'll do it because I believe that one day that will pay it forward in someone willing to stick out on a limb for me. The way that I got my job at Cash App was definitely through me being the right person for the job. But I did get a referral from someone who I went to high school with. It was the most random thing ever. But Square's a gigantic company and I was just like, okay, who works at square, and referrals make a huge difference in getting your application read and getting your application read fast. And this hiring manager didn't know this person, but I was in, you know, a bunch of interview processes, and he was like, yeah, I wouldn't have seen your resume on time if it weren't for that referral. And I've gone back and thanked that person, and that person has since asked me for a referral to something else. And so, you know, it's just like networks are just like all the connections added together. Yeah.

I know what I love about LinkedIn. I mean, it has its flaws. It's becoming like riddled with sales crap. It all gets ruined by salespeople. Sorry, that's me. Um, but what I do like about it is it's like a record of where are people, where are they at now? Because like someone will ask me, hey, do you know someone at this company? And I honestly don't know because I can't track everybody's movement. So I just go like go onto LinkedIn and go, nope, I know this person, or oh, so-and-so's over there, let me ping them and see if I, you know, can start a conversation for you. But I have a little bit of a strategy too when it comes to LinkedIn. I will connect with anybody in our industry. So anybody on the operator side or vendor side that works in restaurants. But people that are not in restaurants or are trying to sell me things, I get it. I'm in sales. I still just, I don't connect. Sometimes I connect with people and then if the first thing they do is try to sell me something, I not only disconnect, I block them.

Oh my gosh.

Oh yeah, I know, it's terrible. But like, that's not— you're not building relationship. You're viewing me as a transaction. You don't care anything about me, so how am I supposed to care about you?

Yeah.

And I'll give an example, right? Like, I reached out to, um, a person at Wendy's. I really wanted to meet this person. I could see the work that they were doing, and I'm a vendor. And I reached out and said, I promise not trying to sell you something, but would love to connect. on an event and see if I can get you to come speak. I was shocked that he actually responded. Well, that ended up leading to that person making an appearance at our event. We've since built a relationship, which led to an introduction and led to them getting a new job.

Oh wow.

Right, just because they accepted a cold, you know, inquiry from a vendor, um, who genuinely wasn't trying to sell him anything. But, you know, if If I could down the line, I definitely would. Did you know that restaurants lose 50 to 80% of guests after their first visit? If you focus on growing incremental revenue this year and you're still relying on your CRM to tell you how often customers come back, you need to talk to our friends at Claim. In just 15 minutes with no integrations, Claim can automatically diagnose your guest churn and help you bring those ghosted guests back with personalized cash rewards. You can join operators like Sweetgreen, Honeygrow, Chip City, who use Claim to win and keep regulars. Head over to claim.co/marketers and tell them we sent you for $500 off your first campaign.

It'd be different if your email said, would you like to spend time with me? Book time here on my calendar.

Here's my widget.

And you're like, no, no, I don't want to. But no, that's absolutely amazing. Um, so when you think about like your career growth, is there anything you would have done differently?

Yeah, that's a great question.

You don't have to name companies. You can just talk about it.

Yeah, I never wanted to work there again.

No, I mean, I think it's, I think it's okay to name this one actually. So I think like very early in my career, I actually originally started out like, this is kind of a long story when I put it this way, but I thought I wanted to be an epidemiologist, which is like pretty far away from like marketing.

I don't know what that is.

Yeah.

Oh, so epidemiologists are like the people who work at the CDC. So it's like infectious disease. Oh yeah.

That's cool.

Data science smart.

Exactly.

And so it was just basically like applied data stuff. And I, I worked in a lab for a little while as like a teenager and then was just like, wow, this really sucks. It's like incredibly slow and like, um, just like not for me. Uh, you can probably tell by the way that I talk that like I like things fast.

You're super fast. Yep, I dig it.

And, uh, so it's just like, okay, but like what did I think that I liked about this? And what I liked was the, the data side of things and like data that impacts people. And so just kind of like thought about it for a while and I was like, well, this tech thing seems to be like really blowing up. Like, let me figure out what I can do in tech. So I thought I was gonna be a data scientist. Turns out no one really wants to hire an 18-year-old data science person who has like no PhD. And so they were like, yeah, we're doing this marketing stuff. Like, could you like figure out like if the marketing stuff is working? And so I started on the data side of that, just building out like LTV models and attribution and stuff like that. I think there was just so much I didn't know about growth when I joined and like, how does marketing interact with like the rest of the business? Because I just didn't know how businesses worked. And so I joined a few companies that didn't have product market fit. And I think that's super common in the tech side of things.

Especially early stage.

With startups. Yeah. And so I think especially earlier in your career as a marketer, you cannot market your way into product market fit. fit. That's just like not a thing that happens. And so I would join companies and sometimes feel like, wow, am I really bad at my job? Like I can't acquire customers at a reasonable price. Like we can't retain or engage them. But I was just choosing the wrong companies because I wasn't really educated enough to think about like, what do I need to expect from the product and eng teams? What do I need to expect from a design perspective? Is this the right timing in the market? And so just getting smarter about those things has been extremely important to being able to find the right opportunities over time, where I think the roles at some of these companies sounded really great. Like, it's like, oh, I wanna be able to work on acquisition, retention, engagement, data, all these things. But if you don't have product market fit, like, especially as an IC, you can't really fix those things.

Well, so talk to us about what is the difference between like marketing growth and like a chief Chief Growth Officer, Chief Revenue Officer, and Chief Marketing Officer. On the restaurant side of things, like on the operator side in our business, they don't, we don't see a lot of growth officers or sometimes maybe development will be positioned as that. So talk to us from the tech side, like what does growth entail?

Yeah.

So growth to me is the combination of marketing, product as it relates to growth and the data that connects those things together. And of course underlying marketing you have creative, like all the strategy, things like that. So there's a lot of like kind of subdivisions that you can get into different businesses. It makes sense to structure in different ways. I honestly think that a lot of it needs to be structured around the people that you have as well and your expectations of them. So if you have like a VP of growth, that is a little bit different than having like a head of growth marketing. So when I was at Cash App, for example, It's only working on growth marketing. So it was only the pieces that related to the overlap of growth and marketing, but not all growth is marketing and not all marketing is growth.

Right.

And so I'm like, make it easy for us.

Yeah. So it's just like, okay, like we have brand outside of that, right? Like product marketing outside of that. But then also on the growth side, we had growth product outside of that. So it was a little bit narrower scope. But if you were to look at like one of the next organizations I worked at, speak, I was leading all of growth there and similar here at Claim. And that's a little bit more like, okay, how do you take the overlap of not just marketing, but also product analytics into account, product marketing, but the pieces that you're maybe missing then by not having a CMO would be, do you need more on the brand side?

Yeah.

And like, how do you think about that? I think growth begets brand, brand begets growth. Like they're not things that always should exist in silos, but there's no like mutually exclusive, completely exhaustive combination of that. I think the revenue side of things, at least for tech, tends to be more a B2B option that also then is inclusive of sales. So it's like, how do you think about like demand gen into sales? But they're all just words. I think like at the end of the day—

I feel like she just said there is no right answer is what she just said in a lot of words. But like, I, okay, so I feel like I know the answer to this question. Because you are a phenomenal woman. But tell me about your personal life. I mean, we've talked about it before.

Married? Like kids, dogs? What you got?

Um, I have a cat. His name is Soba. He's staring at me right now. He loves video calls, but I kicked him off of me earlier because I didn't want to get like mauled in the middle of a podcast. Um, but no, I, I'm single. Um, like definitely over the last few years have been incredibly career focused, was traveling like 60% of the time for work at my last job. Um, but yeah, I've put a lot of priority on that.

Um, I was gonna say, how do you— how would you—

priority on that? How do you prioritize that? Are you on the apps? Are you on dating sites? What are you doing?

I bet I put a lot of priority on my career in the last year or two, but, uh, definitely I've been getting pressure from friends and family to get back to dating. I think, you know, earlier in my career things were definitely easier. easier in terms of both like the balance of like I had an IC role, like even if I wanted to work hard, it wasn't necessarily like this complete ownership thing. But I think, you know, at a senior level, it's like you're worried about your team, you're worried about the company, you're worried about like everything in between.

And you don't want to come home and worry about feeding like 3 little mouths or one other human that's also capable of cooking.

Welcome to my life.

Exactly. Exactly. And then just like setting those expectations with people, especially like, you know, when you're meeting someone new, I think it can be really hard where it's just Like, hey, like, is this— like, like, is this first date, like, more interesting than, like, this, like, pressure that I have to get this other thing done? Or, like, prioritizing that over spending it with, like, family or friends or, like, whatever else. So yeah, but I think dating in New York, I— that, that could be an entire podcast, probably.

Well, maybe you should start it.

Yeah, it could kill two birds with one stone. Highly encourage it. But that— no, that's amazing. And I could tell just talking to you, you are very career-focused. It makes total sense, right? On the flip side, what we're hearing out there for anyone listening is if you want to date Dyan, you're gonna have to work real hard because she may or may not prioritize you right out of the get-go. So like, really show her your worth right out of the gate.

Yeah, you have to be pretty interesting. It's just like, okay, that really struck me, like, let's, let's go.

Awesome.

Well, I think we have to move into some food for thought questions. So Tammy, you want to start? Sure.

I always like to ask people what their first— what their favorite restaurant is. It can be independent, a chain. It can be—

but you can't have workout answers.

Yeah, just give me one you.

Okay. Um, I like— one of the restaurants that I really like is actually in Boston. I used to live in Boston. Um, it's called Pammy's. It's like a little bit of like a, like, fusion-y moment where it's like bistro style. more Italian leaning, but there's random influences from just like all over the world, like a lot of Asian influence, a lot of, uh, Middle Eastern influence.

Cool.

But it doesn't feel like, hey, like this is fusion. It's just like we're cooking food and like we like good food and good flavors. Um, like excellent wine list, like really, really kind staff. Um, just like somewhere whenever I'm in Boston, I try to stop by.

Pammy's in Boston. Awesome.

All right, so when you're not working, which seems to be all the time, um, or dating, which we know you don't do right now, uh, then what are you doing? What's your chill thing?

Um, so my chill things are like— my friends make fun of me because it's like semi-productive chill things, but, uh, like other than like things that are truly not really hobbies at this point, like coaching or like advising startups and things like that, that's probably not fair to call a hobby. Um, I, I like to cook and I like to work out. So cooking-wise, I've been cooking since I was 6. I think like one day I would really love to open a restaurant or open—

No, don't, don't do it. Don't do it.

I've been told that I shouldn't. That's why I'm working at Flame, honestly, because I'm just like, I'd love to be near the food industry, but I've been told repeatedly that it's a bad idea. And so, uh, this is my happy medium.

It's a really hard business.

Yeah, totally, totally. And I'm like, I at least get to think about it every day, even if I'm not like doing it myself.

Yeah.

Um, but just love to, like, make interesting things for friends and family. Like, I'm— I do this thing where whenever we go to a restaurant, if someone, like, tells me that they really like a dish, the next time I have them over to my place, I remake the dish and see if they notice. It's just like my little, like, trick. And they're like, wait, isn't this the exact thing that we had? And I'm just like, yeah, I made it.

I did that once.

What's your workout?

What are we working out?

I like to lift, like, kind of like low-key powerlifting. I used to be really serious about it. Um, but now I'm not like, you know, I'm not counting macros. I'm not like, you know, like trying to, to show up to a meet or anything, but I like to lift heavy. And then other than that, just, you know, being around the city, you got a lot of cardio in walking around and stuff like that. So yeah, been thinking about picking up Pilates as like kind of a balance.

Do it. I love it. I do it all the time.

Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it.

5 days a week. I love it. I have gone and dropped like 6 dress sizes.

Wow.

Yeah. I'm like, I would show you my muscles, but, uh, I mean, you should, you should probably do that for sure.

Anyone who's listening now is going to jump over to the YouTube so they can see you flex.

Well, okay, so what's the, what's the favorite thing that you made from a restaurant, like a recipe? I, I, I was inspired when you were talking and I made Din Tai Fung's pork chop. Mmm, I got all the spices, everything. So what's like your favorite thing?

That's So good. Now I want to go to Din Tai Fung. The Din Tai Fung in New York is in Times Square, and I hate Times Square, so that'll be a little bit of a challenge for me.

But come to California, check it out here.

I know, I'm originally from California, and like, that's why I'm here.

Oh, what part?

I'm in Long Beach.

San Diego. Okay, cool. Yeah, some things that I've made. So there's this really, really cool restaurant that's like a Japanese-Italian fusion. Apparently I have a type that's in Vancouver, and they had this like Japanese curry bolognese that just like absolutely blew my mind. I was like, I never thought about these things together. I don't know why you thought about these things together, but it's really, really good. And so after going there, I made that. There's also like this like really good like tuna toast. Like it's like a, like, you know, like tuna tartare on like a garlic bread situation at this bar, like restaurant thing that my friends and I went to recently. And so when we had like a little bit of like a wine night, I was like, oh, let me remake those. And it had just like really interesting, like little flavors in it where like I had to find yuzu and I had to like go out and like figure out like, okay, what were the herbs that were in that? And just like all these little nuances and getting it like on the head was just like the funniest thing where people were like, did you go pick it up? And I was like, no, no, this is at home, guys. Yeah, it's just fun to really surprise people.

That's amazing. Well, we've loved having you, loved having you on the podcast, and you are amazing to talk to, and you talk just as fast as Tammy and I, so we love it. We covered a lot of ground. Our last question we always ask folks are, if you could nominate one woman or women that you would love to hear on the podcast, Who would you nominate?

I have a friend whose name is Julia Wu. She also is in the growth field, but she's super interested in food ecosystems, all this really fabulous stuff. She started raising quail, I think. And we just talked about quail the last time that we synced up for a solid 15, 20 minutes. I learned a bunch of things that like I really wouldn't have thought about otherwise.

Just to be clear, the animal, we're talking about like the bird. Yeah, like quailing.

Yeah, she's raising quail. She, she works at 10% Happier, which is like she just has all these like wonderful thoughts about like how to be more zen and more calm. And I'm just like, I need that in my life sometimes. So, uh, she's someone that I think is just like absolutely wonderful to talk to.

Cool.

That's amazing. Amazing. So when I, I'm Just based on you saying you go to restaurants and then you were like, you know what, I can make this dish. I feel like maybe she went somewhere, she saw a quail and she's like, you know what, I can raise them too. And like, that just like seems like the people you surround yourself with are people who are like, yeah, I can do it too.

Yeah, exactly. Women who just get stuff done. Uh, always, always great to me.

I love that. Well, we have loved having you. Um, thank you so much, Dyan from Claim, head of growth, who's had an amazing Track record in history, and thank you for sharing all of it with us at Bite Size and Bossy. If anyone's listening at home and they don't follow us, like us, want to review us, we would prefer only five-star reviews. Yes, only five stars. Yes, yes, we love them all. So on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, you can find us on LinkedIn as well, and we're glad you joined us today, Diane. Thank you for joining us, and thank you everyone for listening. Before you hit the next episode. Close your eyes for a minute. Imagine every customer who swipes their card at your restaurant today. Now imagine every swipe was tied to a guest you could track, measure, and bring back. Okay, open your eyes and check out Claim. Claim's dashboard gives you 100% attribution with no in-store training, guessing, or fuzzy math, powered by real-time purchase data and AI insights you can act on today. It's like having x-ray vision for your marketing dollars from the first bite to a longtime habit. Ready to trade impressions for proof? Visit clean.co/marketers, grab our $500 bite-size bonus, and start making every dollar and diner count.