One Hundred Percent Gut (ft. Sabré Cook)

How do you balance data versus guts?

So when you're in the car, it's 100% gut. Your conscious mind is never going to come to an answer or a conclusion as fast as your subconscious and as fast as you need to. I got, um, really injured in 2021, um, during my last year of W Series, and it was absolutely miserable. That for me was like a lesson that the universe was kind of like trying to teach me. You are valuable. You need to set boundaries for yourself, and you've got to like create space for you to be able to perform at your best. That was a lesson, a hard lesson to learn, but it was one that I definitely needed to learn. Welcome to Digital Voices, where healthcare and life science leaders explore the real work behind transformation. This podcast is about people, leadership, and the conversations that move healthcare forward. Now your host, Ed Marx.

Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. I like to change things up every once in a while, go outside of healthcare just a little bit. And I have with me as my guest this week, Sabra Cook. Sabra, welcome to Digital Voices.

Thanks so much for having me, Ed. I'm excited to chat with you.

No, this is gonna be great. Um, I, I got a chance to meet you. So we met, we were both speakers at an event around F1, and I, I thought you were like amazing, and I loved the insights you were bringing. You even talked about healthcare, and you were very specific in your messaging, which was cool. And I was like, man, I wanna have Sabra on my show. But Sabra, the most important question anyone has beyond racing is what songs are on your playlist? Like what kind of music do you like listening to?

Oh, it, it depends on my mood. I, I would say it varies. I, a new thing that I've been into lately is kind of manifestation music. So it's like positive mantras or manifestation, but in song form. And then I love like, I'm a, you know, like a punk kind of alternative rock girl for like, as a millennial, like Fall Out Boy, Pink, stuff like that is stuff that I really like. Paramore, that's what I grew up with.

Yeah.

Sum 41. But then, you know, I dally in all kinds of different things depending on my mood. I'm from Colorado, so, you know, sometimes you gotta throw in the country songs there, and, or sometimes you wanna get amped up for a race and you've got some, more like rock or rap. So I, I, I'm kind of all over the board, but, uh, but yeah, I would say at, at heart, more of the alternative, alternative rock.

Yeah. No, I recognize some of the, the bands you mentioned cuz I have a couple daughters and one of them's probably around your age and I, so whatever she was listening to, you know, I was listening to as well. So I recognize some of that. And what about when you, when you drive, you're probably not listening to music, but yeah. What, what do you have a pump-up song? Yeah.

I mean, well, when I, when I'm regular driving, I feel like I want to make sure I'm chilled out and I'm not trying to race around on the street.

Okay.

I actually really love to listen to podcasts when I'm driving on the street.

Oh, okay.

But for pre-race, every driver has, you know, their own pre-performance routine that they do. Part of mine is I do tend to listen to music while I'm doing a physical warmup. I have a couple playlists that's a mix, whether it's like kind of a zone playlist where it's like, it feels like it puts me in like that really specific, focused, positive Mindset. Or I do have a playlist called Kick Butt, but it's not butt.

Got it.

So, I play that when I need a little bit more amped up. Yeah.

No, I love it. And, I was sharing off the studio that I was recently going pretty fast on the Autobahn and I was listening to a song called Red Barchetta. Do you know Red Barchetta? If you don't—

I do not.

I'm going to send it to you. So, Red Barchetta, I think it's the ultimate racing Car song.

Okay, I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, when I was going super, super fast, that was the song playing in the background. So what about life message and mantra? Like, are there words that you live by or kind of guide you?

I would say the biggest things that I use kind of on a on a daily basis is something that came was very powerful for me, especially when I was like more earlier in my career, was to enjoy the process. And a big one I use a lot is so what now? Now what? So, always trying to be like, okay, this happened. We can't control that. You know, now, now what are we gonna actively do to move forward? I would say those are, those are probably the big ones. And then, I remember ever since I was a kid, so I was super lucky 'cause I had a really cool dad who used to race motocross and supercross professionally. And he passed along one of his old motocross posters to me, and I used to have it hanging up in my room. And it was like a, you know, motorcycle jumping over the mountains or something like that. And it was— The, the quote that was on it is like, if you've never, uh, if you never fail, you'll never succeed. So just kind of encouraging to go outta your comfort zone. Never, nothing's ever gonna be perfect. Um, but you learn the most from failure.

Yeah. That's, yeah, that's a great dad. That's a good, that's good work. You know, I just jumped right in expecting everyone would know exactly who you are. Uh, so as we get into kind of your life, tell, Tell us, this is a chance for you to just like tell us, like, I, I could tell, tell 'em, but I'd rather hear it from your voice. Like, you're this amazing race car driver, like one of the top women drivers on the circuit. Tell us a little bit about that.

So, I, as I mentioned, had a, had a very cool dad. And so, I was kind of born into a family that was acquainted with racing, but not car racing. And so, from a young age, my mom and dad were like, absolutely no motorcycles. So, they, they let me get into go-karts. Which was much safer, and I appreciate it now. I have much less broken bones than I would have if I would have gone on 2 wheels. So, we started doing that when I was just before I was 8 years old, and I started taking it a little bit more seriously around 10 years old. And then, I went on to win my first world championship when I was 13 in the junior category. And after that, I was like, this is what I wanna do for the rest of my life. And this is pretty cool. This is special. And from then on, I just worked my way up through the karting ranks. I have, I think, 14 championships in total from my years in karting. I don't think this is a secret, but not everybody maybe knows this about racing. It is incredibly expensive.

Sure.

It is not very accessible. And the problem is, is to go from go-karts to cars, it's a large jump in the amount of funding and resources that it takes to do that. So, I was Yeah. I was still racing karts for a lot longer than I intended to, but really struggled to get that budget to make that next jump in sponsorship dollars to make it into cars. But I finally did that in 2017, which directly aligned. I do have another side to my life where I am an engineer, and I, from a young age, really loved math and science, really loved like understanding how things worked, being able to build things, and like just understand it from A to Z, how things function together. So, it made it absolutely natural for me to go into engineering. I went to Colorado School of Mines in Golden, Colorado, and got my undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering from there, and graduated in 2017, the same year I raced a car for the first time. So, 2017 was a big year for me.

Yes.

And then, my racing career and my engineering career kind of went in tandem together from that point. In 2018, I moved into pro categories, in the car racing world. So, I raced on the Road to Indy, which is like the ladder to IndyCar. And then, I won the Infiniti Engineering Academy at the end of 2018, which then secured me a spot to go. I moved and worked in the UK as a vehicle test engineer for Infiniti and Nissan. And then, after that, I went to work for Renault F1, which everybody now knows as Alpine F1, in suspension composite design. And did that and worked on the 2020 car. And then, at the same time, I also qualified for W Series, which, and a lot of people maybe don't know what it is, but it was like the precursor to what F1 Academy is now. And for those of you that really don't know racing, racing is co-ed. So, I'm not racing against other women, I'm just racing against other drivers, period, whether they're men or women.

Yeah.

Yes, the majority is men, and most of the time, I am the only woman. But sometimes you can encounter where there is a couple other females on the grid. But W Series and F1 Academy are specifically only female. So, with W Series, you had to qualify to get into the series, and then you won prize money based on where you finished in the championship. So, I did that for 3 years, and then eventually moved back to the US, realized I couldn't work full-time in Formula 1 and race. It was a little bit too much, even for me who tries to be very efficient with my days. It was a little, it was a lot. And then, I raced anything and everything I had the opportunity to do. So, whether that was, I raced like an MX-5 race at Daytona, I've raced on the Nürburgring and won at the Nürburgring. I know that was a big story this year. A lot of more people were interested in the Nürburgring because Max Verstappen went and raced the 24-hour. And then, I raced like a touring car with Brian Herta. I raced more things on the road to Indy, F3, F4, and ultimately ended up— in the Porsche Carrera Cup North America starting in 2023 as the first female to do so. So, until that point, we unfortunately had no women in the series, and we did have a couple others join, but sadly, I'm the only one again this year, which is a bummer. But it's been a great journey with Porsche so far, and for the last 3 years, I've been a Porsche MIL1 Female Driver Development driver. So, it's been a really cool place to grow and grow my partnerships, and yeah, it's been a good place, and that's where I'm at right now.

Yeah, that's awesome. I'll say the word that you didn't say earlier. That's like badassery right there. Like, uh, you're a great—

I didn't know if I was allowed to say that word.

Yeah, it's, that's pretty good. Yeah, they'll probably stamp, uh, I don't know what, NC-17 or whatever. I don't know what they do with podcasts, but, um, but anyways, that's, that's, that's pretty cool. Yeah. So that kind of leads me to this question, like, how fast have you ever gone? Like, what's the highest speed?

So for like, that's always one of the first questions we get asked is like, how fast do you go? Um, and for us, We're not drag racers, so we don't really pay attention that much to top speed. I mean, yes, it does matter, but for us on road courses, we are mostly focused on average speed. My top speed that I've probably ever gone is like maybe 180 miles an hour. But where, like, cars that are racing on road courses, like, where the excitement and the thrill and, like, the real edge of performance is pushed, is in how fast the cars can actually go through the corners.

Right. Yeah. So, tell us a little bit more about, about yourself growing up, like outside of cars. So, like you grew up in Colorado?

Yes. I was super lucky that I, you know, grew up at a racetrack, at the go-kart track that was in Grand Junction. And I had no idea at the time that that wasn't a normal childhood, being able to like run around and like look, see how my dad was building things and get to like, you know, learn, see how heavy machinery was being run, like watch the tractors and the skid steers and just, like the ins and outs of that. And then also seeing like how a small business runs as well. Like, I, I think that is definitely carried over into, I, I kind of have an entrepreneurial journey in the middle of all this because as I mentioned, you, you know, it takes a lot of funding and resources to, to race cars. So, on the side, basically I am a small business that brings in sponsorship every year and makes the racing program happen. So, my entrepreneurial side got cultivated as well, thanks to both of my parents who are entrepreneurs. And so, I, I was just, yeah, super lucky to grow up in a, in a place where I could be outside and be building things and learning about business and racing and all of that all in one.

Yeah. And you already mentioned it, but like School of Mines, for those who don't know, that's like one of the top engineering schools in the country. I mean, it's, that's a great school. So that was—

They pride themselves on crushing your soul. They're like happy that they, I think they actually have like the You know how they do water tests, and I think Mines has the highest amount of antidepressants in the water, apparently.

What?

I mean, they seemed pretty proud about that, but they definitely— and I appreciate it now after post-grad, they push you incredibly hard, and they want you to really know your stuff. And Um, be pushed to a level so that way, like, you can really be reliable and dependable and, and work hard after you go out into the industry. So, uh, it definitely, it definitely wasn't easy, um, to make it through, but, uh, but we did do it.

And we'll put your website on the show notes, and that way if anyone's interested in sponsorship, right, they could, uh, make a connection with you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

We're hopefully having it. We have a new website look that is going to be launched actually later this week. So, there'll be tons of good information for everybody to go check out. And yeah, you can see all the different events that we get up to. There might be a photo or two from the Fuse event where we met and share a little bit about that event. So yeah, definitely go check it out. It's sabracookracing.com.

Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely post it. Encourage people to sponsor you. You're a great person, and I think a great example for many others. And we're going to keep chatting. A pivotal moment other than what you shared already, but was there a pivotal moment in your life that fundamentally changed your trajectory, like as a person or profession?

I would say there's, there's maybe 3 that kind of stand out for me. The first one I, I kind of already mentioned when I won my first karting world championship. It was a, it was a tough weekend. We had been dealing with a lot of like engine problems. We couldn't figure it out. And at the time, like my dad was my mechanic. So, it was like still like a very much like, you know, the kind of a grassroots feeling where it was me and my dad up against these big factory teams that like came down from Canada and like other parts of the US. And here was this little girl with her dad, you know? And we'd really struggled technically trying to figure out what was going on. And, you know, you start to doubt yourself like as a driver too. You're like, man, can I really do this? And turns out we had an issue with one of the carburetors. And my dad was like, you know, whatever, I'm just gonna put the old one back on, go with what I know, stop listening to these big factory teams, and we're just gonna run it. So, we did that, and then we ended up like qualifying on pole, and then like winning every single session on track from then on. And so, that was kind of a pivotal, that was like a, definitely a really like, I guess a pivotal, and also like it helped reinforce my, an identity for me of like, You know, my dad's behind me, he believes in me, we can do hard things together. And even though it starts out hard, we push through and we achieved this success together and, and ended up achieving what we wanted to achieve because, you know, we didn't give up and we just trusted ourselves and went with what we knew. So, that was definitely a moment for me. And then I would say after that, in 2012, I became the first female to win a pro shifter kart national championship. that had been done anywhere globally before. And at that moment, like, I, I never really, like, I had grown up being one of the, either the only girl or one of the only girls. And so, I didn't really understand until that point the impact that it can make. And, you know, the whatever glass ceiling existed, you know, at the end of the day, I was just focused on going fast and like winning races.

Right.

Seeing like the impact that that moment had and like the other girls in karting that were younger at the time that like, you know, they, they felt inspired because of it. And it just felt like that was kind of like a, almost a step forward to just say like, hey, we can compete in this space. And so I feel like at that moment, another thing got, you know, bred for me was like my passion for supporting maybe minorities in the space or other women in the space and realizing that, hey, it does matter how you show up and how you are You know, putting your best foot forward to inspire these other young women that are coming up behind you. So, that was, I would say, another one. And then, the next one isn't maybe what you think it is. It wasn't necessarily a positive experience. It was a terrible experience. But I got really injured in 2021 during my last year of W Series, and it was absolutely miserable. Like, I was in a ton of pain all year, 'cause I'd gotten injured at the first race of the season. And then, I raced the whole rest of the year with with the injury, and it was— It was not enjoyable. Wouldn't recommend it to anybody. But that challenge and that, you know, pain and frustration that I had to go through, had a terrible season, plus the injuries, that for me was like a lesson that the universe was kind of like trying to teach me again and again and again that like, hey, you are valuable. You need to set boundaries for yourself, and you've gotta like create space for you to be able to perform at your best. And like, what you need is valuable. 'Cause I'm, I'm definitely more of like a, you know, I don't wanna upset anybody. I wanna, don't wanna ruffle any feathers. Like, whatever it is, I'll just figure, you know, I'll figure it out my own way. And I, I don't need like to draw too much attention or make a big deal about things. And I had agreed to race the car with a seat insert that was, that was broken. And for those that don't know how a single-seater works. So like, that was a Formula 3 car, and any open-wheel formula car like that you see, whether that's F4 all the way to Formula 1 and IndyCar, the cars are just like a— it's just a tub. There's no like actual seat inside. So you have to make a seat insert that is made out of this foam that forms around your body and is like specifically custom to you that then sits inside of the, the shell of the tub, and that's what supports you. So mine had fallen apart, and they were like, "We're not going to make you a new one." And I was like, "If I say no, they're going to put another driver in." So it's like the typical problem. Like, "Well, I better take my opportunity." It's like, "Okay, I'll figure it out. No worries. Like, I got this." It was not a good idea because as soon as you get hit, if you don't have that support, that's what ended up injuring my back and my hip. And so that moment of like. The ultimate repercussions of not standing up for myself and saying no, like what, what I need, and I'm of value enough to like, to have these resources to be able to perform just like everybody else. That was a lesson, a hard lesson to learn, but it was one that I definitely needed to learn. In some ways I feel like I still end up having to learn it again. But it was a really, it was a pivotal moment for me. And I ended up having to take like a year a year or so off of racing to, you know, have surgery and rehab back. But the great thing is, is when I came back, that's what opened the door for me to pivot into sports cars full-time and start building the relationship with Porsche.

Yeah, that's very cool. So, what would be your ultimate driving goal today if you had all the sponsorship that you needed? What would be the ideal?

So, next phase of the plan is to go full-time into IMSA WeatherTech. So, right now, I'm in some of the support races for IMSA as well as Formula 1. And so, IMSA WeatherTech is the North American series that you hear races like 24 Hours of Daytona, Petit Le Mans, 6 Hours of the Glen, That's those like really big endurance races that you see and hear of in North America. So, in a perfect world, if I had all the funding, we would go full-time with a manufacturer in IMSA WeatherTech, as well as adding on, if we're shooting for the stars, adding on the 24 Hours of Nürburgring, as well as the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Like, that would be the perfect, the perfect scenario.

Yeah, well, I hope it, I hope it happens. For you. So, you also coach. So, tell us about that. What kind of coaching do you do?

So, I do driver coaching and sim coaching. So, you know, everything's online now. So, that was something that actually came out of the pandemic was, so there's, you know, there's driver coaches just like there's soccer coaches and basketball coaches. So, I will coach like either a group of students or in an individual basis at the track, whether you get to race seat with them, or you're coaching them with data and video trackside. And then also on the simulator, because there's platforms like iRacing, Assetto Corsa, where you can drive with each other online and coach very effectively in the virtual world. So, those are, those are the 2 ways usually that I coach. I do, I do sometimes like kind of consult or give advice. I guess this isn't as much an an official coaching capacity, but young drivers coming up that are still trying to figure out the sponsorship side of things, because it's incredibly difficult, and there's not a lot of, like, resources and, like, hey, this is how you do it, right? Like, you have to— the way I've figured it out is by doing it absolutely wrong and continuing to do it again and again and again until I figure out what works. And so, being able to just, like— I literally just before this, I did have a meeting with a young driver who's, like, not sure how to proceed forward with sponsorship. So, I do try to provide some mentorship in that space as well.

Yeah. Well, you mentioned a little bit about data. So, how do you balance, like, personally, data versus gut? So, when you're racing, I know you have all sorts of data and you're an engineer, like, how much of it is data at that point, or how much is gut?

So, when you're in the car, it's 100% gut. It has to be, because otherwise, you're never going, your conscious mind is never going to come to an answer or a conclusion as fast as your subconscious and as fast as you need So, like, there, yes, there is some thought process that goes through, like, consciously, right? Like, if you wanna try something different, you, like, you'll make a mental note, like, okay, let's try this technique next lap, or this setting of the car next lap. That goes into it. But when you're in the car, things are happening so quickly, you really just have to lot— rely on your experience, your gut feeling, and what you're feeling through your butt. Honestly, that's—

Yeah.

That's what you've gotta trust.

Now you also speak and you're a brand ambassador. Tell us a little bit about that. And, and I— and again, we'll post your website so people can find out more.

Yeah, I— well, I guess I, I wear many hats. Uh, whatever, whatever hat needs to be worn to be able to make the Roasting Program happen, I guess, is what we do. So, uh, for like the, the speaking side of things, um, I will do keynote speeches, speak on panels, um, Q&As, um, maybe Like hosting events. So I've, I've, I've gotten asked to do a variety of different things. And then I also commentate more recently for like the F1 Track TV stuff. So like the Mexico GP, Las Vegas GP, and Miami GP are ones that I've most recently worked at. I'm very introverted actually, naturally. So it's kind of funny. This is definitely not where my mom would've thought I end up in life is like speaking in front of people. But the, I guess the good news is it's, it's been a big growth and challenge area for me that, you know, it's not maybe not something that I'm necessarily like attracted to or inclined or like natural. Well, maybe I am natural at it, but it's definitely like a big, I've, you know, I, if I, if I could just stay quiet and go look at data and not talk to anybody, I would much more prefer that. But that's not the reality of like, being a successful driver, building a business, building a brand, um, and, and doing media for your partners. So it is, it is something that spawned out of necessity, but now I, I do really enjoy it and I love that it allows me to make a bigger impact and, uh, meet so many other people that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Well, you're, you're great at it. And, uh, and what I appreciated when I saw you, you customized everything to your, to your client, which is cool, right? A lot of times Most people just generically speak, say the same thing to everyone. But the fact that you took that time to really learn healthcare, that I was really impressed by that.

Well, I feel like there's so much more I need to learn. It's still like a space that I'm definitely no expert in. And I would love to learn more because it was very interesting. I loved listening to your panel, especially during the Fuse event. I thought I learned a lot from that.

Yeah. Well, and the other thing, I think you inspire a lot of people, not I think just, you know, the obvious thing would be women, but I think anyone, both men and women, and as you mentioned, minorities, and just the fact you're doing what you're doing and you're blazing new trail. Like you said, a lot of times you're the only female in the bunch. And so I think people really look up to that, can learn a lot from that. So that's pretty cool. Hey, what's one thing that your parents made you do? They sound like great people, but what's one thing they made you do? You rolled your eyes, you know, when you were a kid, but now you look back and you're like, hmm, kind of glad they did that.

I think my parents were great at holding me accountable to my level of capabilities so that they would definitely— I don't want to say put pressure, but kind of like put pressure that if they knew that I wasn't doing something to the best of my abilities, um, they would definitely be like, you know, is, is this your best? Is this like— and they would just kind of like, encourage me to lean into, like, my strengths and what I can truly achieve, and not let me just do things to check a box. And I think also my dad was very adamant about, like, you give your word for something and you do it. And if you give your word and say you're gonna do something, like, you do it. And if you aren't able to fulfill that, like, Communicating that and being really open and honest that like, hey, I'm, I'm actually not gonna be able to fulfill this. And this is why, just like, cuz I know a lot of us commit to a lot of things because we, you know, we want to, and we think we, we're like in our best idea, we're like, I can totally do all these things. But if you're gonna say you're gonna do something, you better do it. And if you can't do it, you need to, you need to just be open and honest.

Yeah. That, I, I love that. Sabra, we, we talked about a lot of things, talked a lot about music and then your life growing up and then all the different races that you, That you've won and all the different things that you've done. We talked some about your life mantras and, you know, never fail. If you don't fail, you know, you don't succeed. You gotta push the boundaries, gotta push the limits, enjoy the process. And then just the things that you talked about, like some of the lessons learned, like setting boundaries for yourself, you know, and the messaging to other girls, young people, women, that they can accomplish things even in male-dominated areas. And then I, I just picked up on things like your, the belief that your dad had in you and be able to do some cool things. And my parents just seem like great people. What did I miss? Or is there anything you wanna double down on? I'll give you the last word.

Oh, I mean, I think you summarized all that super well. And yeah, just wanna express that I'm super grateful for all the opportunities that I've been given and I've been able to be in the places that I am because I have amazing people supporting me and amazing partners behind me. So yeah, just, uh, just definitely if you, if you get a chance, go check out who my partners are. They are all incredible and amazing. And, uh, it allows me to be in rooms and places where I get to meet more cool people like Ed.

Yeah. Uh, you're so kind. Thank you for being our guest.

Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening to Digital Voices. We hope today's conversation sparked ideas, reflection, and connection. Subscribe on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify Podcasts so you don't miss an episode.