When the Old Life No Longer Fits: Reinvention, Burnout, and Spiritual Clarity

Mrs. Elizabeth, how are you doing, ma?

Yes, very well, very well. I mean, it's a— again, it's a pleasure to be with you today.

And also, thank you so much for the time and the opportunity. Firstly, you are an author. You are also a transpersonal coach. Can you please, Mrs. Elizabeth, discuss more about yourself And how you are doing currently now, Mrs. Elizabeth?

So yes, I am a transpersonal coach and I am an hypnotherapist. And I moved to the United States in the beginning, at the beginning of the year. And I am now living in Los Angeles. But before this, I worked for United Nations, European Commission, all around the world. So I made, I did a lot of missions, especially in finance and administration, working with different governments, especially in Africa, but also in Cambodia, in different parts of the world. And before, before, before, I was a CPA during around 20 years in France. So, and here I am. So the book is the result of all this long career and meeting different cultures, Meeting different people that I enjoy a lot. And I was coming from the world of finance, but I started to study again in psychology because I think human being, it's amazing, and we always have to learn about human psyche, I would say. So here I am.

Exactly. Here you are having a profound discussion that will actually impact people's lives out there. As a physiotherapist, as a transpersonal coach, you've actually impacted and actually done great work in your own expertise as well, which is why I would like to drive to your book, Awakening the Spiritual Mind. Can you please, Mrs. Elizabeth, discuss more on the book? And do you also plan to write more books in the coming future? This is Elizabeth.

Yes, thank you, Demitope. Thank you. So I, I, um, my books, uh, I wanted this book to be a guide. I mean, a guide when you have to take decisions. Sometimes you have to take in your life very difficult decisions, difficult, or you have from the outside some specific events. Could be the loss of something who is very close. It could be a loss of your job. It could be very difficult events, but also it can come from yourself. as it did for myself. I mean, sometimes you feel disconnected with your life. So what to do? I mean, it's not a— so in my book, it's about taking decisions which connect your mind, your body, and your heart. I mean, a decision which is your decision, not a decision which is imposed by your environment. And I know it's not always an easy way to do. So I developed a sort of— I developed a guide in 3 steps. First, knowing yourself and knowing your environment. I mean, this first step, it's about collecting information. You have to collect what— in what culture are you living? Who are you? What do you want? You need to know yourself first. This is the first step. Second step, and it's not easy during this time, I mean, because we are overrun by information. Second step is to withdraw. You need to withdraw from the noise around you. Take a step back, go somewhere, retreat. I mean, it's not about flying away from something, it's about reconnecting to yourself. Reconnect to yourself. So, It's a sort of alchemical process, I mean, because when you step back, all the information you collected before, they move, and something will emerge through intuition, through your nervous system even, because I have a whole chapter on the nervous system. So everything you collect is moving, is working inside of you, and something will emerge. And the first step, which is very important, and what I learned, do something, act. You need to act. A small, small step. I mean, it's not useful to change everything around you and to do a revolution. No, it's about do a sort of— start to implement your project. Start to show to people who you are. I mean, what is your project? So it exists. start to exist, your project will exist. So it's a 3-step guide, but you can find on my website also a guide journal that you can have on a daily basis. You can download this journal, I mean, just to go through each step. It will show you what to do each step and what questions to ask you to each step. Sorry.

Exactly. It's absolutely huge because as we humans that we actually understand in regards to the book, because your book actually connects the mind, it actually comes back to us, um, ourselves, and actually being in the position for us to actually have this 2-step that you've actually given recently, that is knowing ourselves, knowing our environment, and knowing when to also withdraw. when we can actually retreat and actually reflect on ourselves. All these features can actually help us in one way to actually connect back to ourselves and see how we can actually become more better and also do more greater things as well. Which is why I would like to drive to the point of listeners who they could be in the position whereby they are going through a career change. They could be going through relocation. They could be going through midlife transition or another major life shift. How do you think they can tell when their discomfort is asking for deeper reinvention rather than simply a quick external change, Mrs. Elizabeth?

Thank you for your question. I think really there is a very simple way to notice the difference. I mean, sometimes we change something on the outside. We say we change jobs, we move to another city— I did it— we leave a relationship and we start a new project. I mean, whatever it could be. And for a while, we feel better. But then, a few months later, the same feeling comes back. Maybe it looks a little different, but underneath, it is exactly the same restlessness, the same feeling that something is not quite right. And when that happens, it can be a sign that the problem was not really the job or the city, but something deeper is asking for attention. I have experience with myself. I think it was in 1998, I mean, and I left everything, as I told you, to work internationally. And in 2022, I did it again. I left again, and I started a new life, this time in the United States. So both times, there was a very strong external change. I left everything. So, but for me, it was not really about running away from something. It was about moving towards something which was meaningful for me. I mean, I was looking for my own truth. I mean, and this is important for people. They need to find their place. They need to find their truth. I mean, if not, it is very hard for them and just to try to, you know, to arrange everything around you. So it's very, very difficult. So I would invite people to ask them a question. So they should ask them. themselves. I am trying to escape a situation, or I am being invited to move towards something that matters for me. And sometimes, of course, you don't know the answers immediately. Of course, it will be too simple. You don't have to have a whole plan, but act, step. I mean, think about yourself. I mean, and so, and ask the question, who I am? What are my values? What do you want to do with my life? I mean, it's important to ask you the question sometimes. Why I am not comfortable when everything is perfect? I mean, what do I want to do? Perhaps a podcast. This is okay. I mean, helping people. I mean, why not?

Exactly. It's not about running away from a situation. It's about dealing with the situation. Because there is actually a saying, when we have challenges, when we have situations, it's actually bringing us to actually get to be in the position to actually observe our weakness, know ourselves better, and also fix some areas we need to adjust into. So we have to know how to actually face situations despite how tough it is and actually use those thoughts as a tool for development for ourselves. not running away from situation as usual. It's very easy. It's very easy to avoid situations, but it doesn't solve what we are intended to do within ourselves as humans. Mrs. Elizabeth, I would like to drive to the area where you also spend more than 2 decades advising governments and institutions through complex change. What do you think you learned about the inner human side of transformation That traditional leadership conversation often overlook along the way? Mrs. Elizabeth?

Yes, it's just a— this is an important question. I mean, because we have always— we have often this connection between institutions and people. I mean, I mean, it's, uh, we, we can see this very often. So then I think, uh, one thing I learned Through all my missions, it's very simple. I mean, people, they want to be heard. They want to be listened. I mean, this is important. You need to listen to people. I mean, just, they are not pieces in a big system. They are human beings. I mean, this is very important. So I worked with different people, different countries, different cultures, different institutions, professional environments. I mean, and of course, Yeah. There are big differences between people, but underneath all that, there is something which is very universal. People want to feel they matter, they exist. They want to be considered. They want to be respected. They want to feel that someone is really listening to them, rather than simply putting their concerns into a process or a system. So, and I work with very big institutions, and the problem is that when big organizations go through change, they often focus almost entirely on strategy. So when I say strategy, I talk about structure, timelines, objectives, inputs, outputs, performance indicators. When you say this, you say everything. So, but human people, I mean, How do you measure the motivation of people? It's not through indicators of performance. I mean, it's not possible. Of course, all of all those things are important, but they don't tell you what is actually happening inside the people. We we are we have to go through this change. I mean, so I've seen this again and again, and. And one of the most important questions is whether people's personal values are still compatible with the values of the organization. And sometimes it's not, because people, like organizations, are evolving. So it's very important to have this connection between the values of the individual and the values of the organization. When there is a strong gap, Between the two, people may continue doing their jobs. No problem. But sometimes, something starts to disappear. They become disengaged. They lose motivation. And here we can see in United States, we can see very, very often they leave because they have the possibility to leave. So they leave. So they have a huge turnover, and the turnover has a huge cost. For the organization. So, and sometimes people leave because they don't know even why, I mean, exactly why, but they are not comfortable because of this disconnection of values. So, and I would like also to say something else to the leaders, institutional language. And I worked again in United Nations, in this big organization. So, during periods of change, organization can produce a lot of beautiful words, So, no, we are together and so forth, a lot of beautiful political language. So, but, and sometimes the meaning is very, very poor, very little behind. I mean, this is only language, but people are very good at sensing that. They can tell when the words are not connected to real action or to real meaning. I mean, this is important. So, people are sensitive. I mean, So for me, real leadership starts with coherence. You need to align your language to exactly what you want to do, where you want to go, and why you want to go there. I mean, it's important for a leader and for an organization. Then the people will decide, they take it or not. So this is in accordance with their own project or not. If it's not in accordance, they will leave at one point. When we have the opportunity to do this. So what you say, what you do, and what you actually value should be connected and aligned. If not, we will have trouble at one point. So this is the art of my work, I mean, in transpersonal psychology and transpersonal leadership, I mean, alignment. This is an old story, by the way. This is not new.

It actually proved that we need to actually do things that align with our values. We need to do things that align with what we enjoy, because if we do not do things that align with our own, I would say, algorithm, then we get tired of it easily and we get to the point whereby we start to lose motivation. And we do not want to get to that certain stage. So when we actually see where we are actually finding joy, the value is connected through our own algorithm, then we can actually connect connect ourselves down to that place so that we can continue to keep the motivation going and also doing the great work out there as well. Which is why I would like to drive to the point of embodiment, because you speak about moving from burnout to embodiment. So what do you think embodiment means in practical terms, and how do you think people can try to reconnect with themselves? After years of living primarily through pressure, responsibility, and also achievement? Mrs. Elizabeth.

Yes, thank you for asking me. This is an important question because very often the body, we forget the body. Embodiment is important. I mean, burnout is a signal of the body that something is wrong. Something has been disconnected at one point. The body is speaking always, always sending you messages. For me, I think really, I believe that the body is not something which should be healed or something like this. It's also something which should be listened because it's sending messages. Stop something, you have an illness, or sometimes depending where you have the illness, I mean, it sends you a message, a strong message you should stop. Something has been disconnected, you need to reconnect. It's not only healing through medicine, it's also healing through understanding, I mean, what the body wants to tell you. So you need to come back to yourself. This is the main message, I think. You need to come back to yourself and to listen to yourself, not only your thoughts, because we all are— you are, we are, we always think. I mean, the thoughts never stop. I mean, But listen to your body, listen to what it is going to tell you. I mean, I have, for example, a friend which is— she is very young, she cannot work because she has pain in her foot. So it's fine, I mean, just— but the doctors don't find anything. So it's purely— but she is retired and it's very difficult for her to accept to be retired. So her foot doesn't work anymore. I mean, she say, you need to stop and to think. So, and for people, when you spend years living under pressure and taking responsibility, achieving things, and constantly responding to what other people needs from you, you can become very disconnected from your own experience. And it's very— so you know how to keep going, but you may no longer know what you actually need. And this is where the burnout started. So the first step is to stop for a moment and ask to yourself some basic questions. How am I really doing? What is giving me energy? So, what is draining me? Important to know what do I need right now and what I have been ignoring for a long time. Then I think it's important to look not only at yourself but also at your environment. And sometimes, I know it's not an easy environment. You have pressure, you have responsibilities, I mean, and All the problem is to find a balance between your responsibility and the realization of your soul, I would say, of yourself. I mean, and it's sometimes a difficult balance, especially when you are young. And I know this, I mean, because you have family, you have children, you have a lot of different responsibilities, but you need to be honest with yourself. who are you? And this is difficult to find sometimes. So, and also sometimes we try very hard to change ourselves when the real problem is that your way of living is no longer fitting with who you are, you have become. I mean, because we are evolving all the time. So maybe the job is wrong, but maybe the pace is wrong. Maybe the relationships around us are no longer— healthy for us. But maybe we are carrying too many responsibilities and that we no longer need to carry. I don't know. You have a lot of different things which can interfere with your own evolution. And there is the body. That body, as I told you, when you are living mainly through your head— so everybody is living through our head, too many thinkings, too many planning, solving problems, achieving. This is human being. I mean, this is their All the time. But the body can become something you only notice when it starts complaining. So the body says, okay, stop, stop. And also, you don't want to hear, so I become here. So now you hear me. So coming back to the body means learning to notice the simple things again, tiredness, tension, breathing. You need to breathe.

Breathe.

This is normal, this is natural. So stop, pause, breathe. I mean, need to rest, need for movement for some people. I mean, we are not all the same. Even the difference between feeling relaxed and feeling constantly on alert. So for me, moving from burnout to embodiment is really about becoming present in your own life again. I mean, it's about bringing your thoughts, your feelings, your body, and your choices back into the same direction. I mean, I told you this is a word I like, is aligned, to be aligned with yourself. If you cannot change your life because you have too many responsibilities, and this is important, be conscious of this, at least be aware of this. Okay, I cannot change my life because I have children, I have a family, I have— so, But at one point, I will change my life. Don't give up your dream. Don't give up yourself. I mean, so go on like this. Okay, face your responsibility because we have to. But at one point, don't lose yourself in too many responsibilities. Be honest with yourself. Don't wait until to be sick to think about yourself. I mean, so— And the burnout sometimes is interesting because it asks you to— it triggers some questions. What do I really want? What kind of life do I want to live now? What am I willing to change? And again, the change could be a small step, small, not throwing everything away, but a very small step. So you don't have to rebuild your whole life overnight. So again, no revolution, but you can start by listening to yourself again and then making one small choice that is more aligned with what you are discovering about yourself.

I'm so glad you actually brought light on what it is, you brought light on the details regarding it, and you brought light on the solution. What we can do. Our body is a very sensitive thing and it gives us signal when something is wrong. It's just like a machine. When the machine is developing problem, we notice because it could have a sound change, it could have some kind of tone that we do not usually observe. Sometimes our body does that for us. We observe all this thing comes around and it becomes A sign we need to recognize. Because if we try our best to be in the position to recognize all the small, small spots within ourselves, that is when we can now provide steps for us to actually resolve the situations. Because the issue is, if we do not resolve it early, it becomes something very, very, very difficult to resolve when it gets to a certain stage. It takes more time. It takes more energy and it takes more resources because it has been stored for a very long time. We do not want to get to that stage. So giving ourselves early recognition and getting the solution very quickly are very good source for us to become more better. Mrs. Elizabeth, there is also a question I normally ask during the end of the show. From our forefathers, from our ancestors, There are a lot of beautiful things that do exist during our forefathers' time that is missing in our time today. If there is anyone or anything you would like to bring back to our time today, what do you think that thing will be, Mrs. Elizabeth?

It's a very interesting question. I mean, because you're right, we are inherited from our ancestors, and sometimes As usual, young generations, they forget this heritage. I mean, and this is very important. Don't worry, every young generation, they are doing the same. They forget, they build again, and their children forget and they build again. I mean, this is the way it is since thousands of years. So it's amazing to see how we forget. However, I learn a lot. I mean, when I travel from different cultures, I told you, and in Africa, for example, they learn a lot. They respect a lot the ancestors and what they transmit from, and it's not written. It's— we say the words. I mean, they say they transmit this orally. So we need really to listen because if not, it would be forget. I mean, it will be lost. So they teach. They teach this wisdom generation after generation. And again, the young, they revolt and they are not agree, and they say no, they don't understand. And they say, okay, that's fine. This is the game. I mean, this is the way they need to also to try themselves and to know if it's true, the truth transmitted by the ancestors are right. But the ancestors transmit me A lot of, again, wisdom and things like this. So I had the opportunity during my study to go to do a journey under psilocybin. I don't know if you know this. It was very controlled. It was what we call the mushroom in Netherlands. I mean, it's about a substance you take under medical control.

Yeah.

You don't do this yourself. You need to be under medical control because don't know how people are going to react. And I saw my ancestors. I saw them. I saw them traveling all around and just moving and transmitting something. And the transmission of this was about 2 things, which is completely different. First, pain, because we are in a world which is suffering, I mean, a lot. I mean, To be a human being is not an easy thing. I mean, you have to suffer, you have to go through obstacles. To learn what you have to learn, you need to go through challenges, through different things, to realize your mission, to realize— and I saw this so vividly. But on the other hand, what is in the balance was love. I mean, it was so—

Love.

A lot of love. I mean, I saw this— I'm not talking about human love, it was above this, sort of like if your universe helps you in your path. I mean, it was amazing to see these 2 different situations. On one hand, the wars, the people suffering, losing a child, for example, which is the worst, one of the worst things which could happen for a woman, to a woman, for example, or to a parent. So in one hand, this pain, and you need to go through this to, again, to evolve. And the other hand, again, you are supported. You are supported because you are your thinking, you have your body, you have— you are— everything is at your disposal if you listen, if you want to change your life. So on a very large— and this is what the ancestors Teach us. I mean, okay, you have to fight. Okay, you have to fight and you have to discover yourself. And each generation you need to learn again. It will be like a wheel again. Life of cycle, life of generation. But we are here to support you. The universe is here to support you. You have a brain. You have thoughts. You have strength. You have a body, listen to your body. So you need to rediscover. What I put in my book is not new. I mean, I collected all this information to put it in my book, but this is coming from a long time ago. I mean, discovering yourself, it was more than 2,000 years ago, the Greeks say this. I mean, the philosophers say this. I mean, discover yourself. Who are you? What do you want to do in your life? I mean, what are your challenges? What are your resources? And you have a lot. You have a lot. So it's thanks to our ancestors. We need to thank them.

Absolutely. They've done great things. They've actually done a lot for us. For us is to carry it along. Which is why I'm also glad you actually make this source of inspiration, because our mind, this mind we are looking at, is just like another world entirely. And if we can actually get how it's been structured for us, it will help us in a very long way, which is why I'm so glad you made a very huge encouragement on love and other perspective that can actually help more, more in much to stay more Motivated and also have this sense of hope that no matter how their body works, no matter how their mind is actually creating this kind of uncomfortability or ups and downs, there is still hope and there are things that can be done to get them resolved. Mrs. Elizabeth, I do want to use this opportunity to thank you for the time and the opportunity for us to have this profound and insightful conversation today. Thank you so much, Mrs. Elizabeth.

Thank you a lot. Thanks to you.

Thank you, Elizabeth. Have a lovely day, Mrs. Elizabeth. Bye-bye.

Hi. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.