Dr. Ellen Langer on Mindfulness and the Healing Power of Thought

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Hello, sunshine! Today on The Bright Side, it's Wellness Wednesday. We're talking mindfulness and mindlessness with Harvard professor Dr. Ellen Langer. Her studies on decision-making, healing, and aging have taken over the internet. Let me ask you this: what if age was just a mindset? We'll find out if it is today. It's Wednesday, August 14th. I'm Danielle Robay.

And I'm Simone Boyce. And this is the Hello, I'm Ellen Langer. Welcome to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to share women's stories, laugh, learn, and brighten your day. Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coliguard. Danielle, today's show is all about mindfulness, and this topic reminds me of one of my most mindful periods of life. It's when I was at that retreat a few months ago in Nashville.

Oh my God, the life-changing retreat. I'll never forget it.

The life-changing retreat. I mean, I'll be honest, it's really easy to be mindful when you're on this beautiful campus in the middle of the countryside with no access to phones or screens.

So— Was it verdant?

It was very verdant. It was lush. It was verdant. Not bucolic though.

So what kind of mindful practices did you learn there? Like, what'd you do?

Well, we spent most of our time in therapy, so you have no choice but to be dialed in and present when you're in therapy. But there were some other mindfulness hacks that I picked up, just checking in with yourself. So acknowledging what is the time, the place that I'm in right now. It's a great way to center yourself. I also, I've also learned how to practice meditation in a way that looks easier for me. I'm never gonna be that girl that, like, wakes up every morning and is able to just meditate in complete silence. However, for me, I can do it through an instrumental track, through an orchestral track. I can do it through walking or even an ice bath. I don't know how regularly I'll do that, but that was fun.

How did that mindfulness shift things for you?

I've found that when I'm more mindful, I'm more open to my intuition. I'm more open to community, to conversation, to truth, serendipity, which is the most fun.

I really like that. I do a heart meditation in the morning. It's 10 minutes.

Mm-hmm.

I just do it in my bed. And when you like breathe light out from your heart, it makes you more open and does breathe into serendipity. I love that. Yeah, that sounded very woo-woo, but it's true. It does. And our guest today has done a ton of research on mindfulness. She's way less woo-woo than we sounded because she is an American professor of psychology at Harvard. And according to her research, mindfulness has shown to be literally and figuratively enlivening. I'm talking improved relationships, health, wellbeing, even aging. It affects our aging process.

I know, right? That's the crazy part. Dr. Langer has written over 200 research articles and 13 books, including her most recent book called The Mindful Body: Thinking Our Way to Chronic Health. And through all her research, Dr. Langer always demonstrates the power of our thoughts. So let's bring her in. Dr. Ellen Langer, welcome to the Bright Thank you for having me. Dr. Langer, you are a leading expert in mindfulness. You've conducted more than 90 studies in this field. So my first question is, how would you define mindfulness?

It's so simple, it almost defies belief. What many people think of as mindfulness is meditation, and meditation is nice, but it has nothing to do with mindfulness as I study it. Mindfulness, as we study it, is immediate. All you need to do is notice. So there are two ways of becoming mindful. One is bottom-up, which means the things you think you know, just notice new things about them, and you'll see you didn't know it as well as you thought you did, and your attention naturally goes there. When I started to paint, for instance, I thought leaves were green. But then I went outside and I started looking at the leaves, and there are hundreds and hundreds of different shades of green. And each of these change depending on where the sun is in the sky. So my mindless notion of green became a multitude of sensations. The other way to be there, which is top-down, is to appreciate that everything is always changing. Everything looks different from different perspectives. So when you realize you don't know, then you naturally pay attention. So if the two of you are going to come visit me in Massachusetts, you wouldn't have to practice anything. You'd walk in. Everything would be new to you. And you'd say, oh, did she do that painting? What books? What is that over there? You know, and you'd notice because it's new and it feels good. It's the essence of what we're doing when we're happy. So you actively notice the neurons are firing and the research shows that it's literally and figuratively enlivening.

In your most recent book, you write that, quote, we all already have a potent tool for improving our health and we may not even know it. That is so powerful. What do you mean by that?

So the title of the book is "The Mindful Body." The subtitle is "Thinking Our Way to Chronic Health." And so a lot of the book is about what I call mind-body unity. Now, people have a notion, you have a mind, you have a body. The problem with that is how do you get a thought, something immaterial, to affect the body, something material? I said, no, this is wrong. Let's just put the mind and body back together. If it's one thing, wherever you're putting the mind, you're necessarily putting the body. Wherever you're putting the body, you're necessarily putting the mind. The studies that I report in there, the examples I give from my own life, other people's lives, makes clear that we have enormous control over our health and well-being. We've barely even tapped the surface of what we're able to do. So we have lots and lots of studies where we put the mind in strange places and take the measurements from the body. So the first study in that series was the counterclockwise study. Now here we retrofitted a retreat to 20 years earlier, had old men live there as if they were their younger selves. So they spoke about past events as if they were just unfolding. And in a period of just a week, Their vision improved, their hearing improved, their strength, their memory, and they looked noticeably younger. All by changing their minds.

I have so many questions. What do you mean by changing their mind?

Let's take the second study in the series. We took chambermaids and we asked these chambermaids, how much exercise do you get? Well, they believe that they're not getting any exercise because the Surgeon General says exercise is what you do after work and they're just too tired. So all we did was change their minds and teach them that their work was exercise. Making a bed is like working at this machine at the gym. Dusting the windows is like working at this other machine, so on and so forth. So now we have two groups. One group whose mind has been changed, who believes their work is exercise. The other group who doesn't realize this.

Got it.

They're not eating any differently. They're not working any harder. All that's changed is that mindset. As a result, the group that now sees their work as exercise lost weight, There was a change in waist-to-hip ratio, body mass index, and their blood pressure came down just by changing their minds. Let's take the last study in the series. We inflict a wound. It was a minor wound, but still a wound. And so people are in front, individually, are in front of a clock. Unbeknownst to them, the clock is rigged. So for a third of the people, the clock is going twice as fast as real time. For a third of the people, it's going half as fast as real time. For a third of the people, it's real time. Now, most people would assume that stupid wound is gonna heal when that wound heals. What difference does it make what the clock says? But the clock is controlling our perceptions of time. And it turns out the wound heals based on clock time, perceived time. You sort of imagine now, you know, that you can control your healing, you can control your memory, your vision, I mean, we have, you know, so many different studies.

We have to take a quick break. Stick with us.

Picture this: me, Reese Witherspoon, in London, ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey Card. So I earn rewards wherever I book travel. 5x points with hotels, 4x with airlines, 3x on restaurants and other travel, and 1 point on other purchases. Imagine getting rewarded for eating a toad in the hole. Wait, what is a toad in a hole?

Visit wellsfargo.com/autographjourney.

Terms apply.

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Well, first of all, you're not there. Um, every time you're in a situation where there are new opportunities available to you, you're going to be blind to them because the past is dictating your present. All right. You're rule and routine bound. You're oblivious to alternative perspectives. In fact, in general, when we're learning anything, we should learn it in a conditional way, sort of, kind of this way, maybe this way, not absolute. Because when you're learning something absolutely, then you don't vary it by context. You don't vary it as a function of your age, your ability at the time and so on, or your difference from the person who wrote the rule in the first place. And the very important point that's hidden in here that I make clear in The Mindful Body, which is everything, everything that is, was at one point a decision. It wasn't handed down from the heavens that there should be 9 innings in a baseball game, cabinets should be of this height. All of these things were decisions, right? And so what that means is that everything is mutable. Everything can be changed. But it doesn't occur to us to change it. We just sort of accept what is as if that's the way it's supposed to be.

It's clear, Dr. Langer, that you question absolutely everything. And what I'm hearing you talk about is perspective and flexible thinking. And I learned through therapy that rigidity is actually protection. In many ways. So my question for you is, how did you become so flexible? Was it your upbringing? Was it your parents? Where does this mindset come from?

Yeah, I was very, very fortunate. My parents were extremely supportive and loving, and that gave me license to explore new things without having to worry about breaking the toy or showing up 10 minutes late or whatever else. And so even as a little girl, I remember people would be complaining about one thing, and I'd say, "Oh, why don't you look at it this other way?" And so I have a long life of doing this. And everything that I've written basically has been trying to share that with other people. I think people don't realize that events don't cause us stress. They don't cause us unhappiness. They don't cause anything. It's our views of the events that lead us to our feelings. And our views are Emotions are a function of our thoughts. We have control over them. So if you look at this in this awful way, of course you're not gonna feel good. If you look at it as an advantage, then you are going to feel good. People often ask me, how do you change from seeing negatively to seeing it positively? And, you know, I don't change. I just see it positively in the first place. But it is neither positive nor negative. It just is.

You do a lot of work on decision-making, One of the things that you actually named is the illusion of control. I'm fascinated by this. Is the illusion of control positive or negative for human beings?

I'll give people the bottom line. Rather than waste your time trying to make the right decision, I think people would be better off making the decision right.

Does that include spouses?

Yes.

Wait, this— my friend says this. She says, choose your choice. She says make a choice and then your behavior and actions are in validation of that choice. Choose your choice.

Yeah. Now, what's interesting is that when you make a decision, you're making the decision to take action. As soon as you take that action, you can't make a comparison anymore. If you say, should I have this pie or that pie? So you take the first pie. And you eat it. Now you want to say, "Oh, maybe I should have had the other pie." Well, your stomach is now full. The other pie is not going to taste the way it would have tasted if it were the first you ate. So we can never really compare. So you can't add them up to know what to do. Not only that, how much information should you gather? I have some friends who are so ambivalent because they think they should know. So they come up with this. "Yeah, but then I can go there, but then—" And they go back and forth and back and forth very, very creatively. And the mistake is thinking there's a right answer.

I love this thinking, and I particularly like not judging the decision as right or wrong or good or bad.

Let me throw something at you that I think is— it's funny because, you know, I've done so many studies, as you mentioned earlier, and have many, many studies where we're able to make people live longer and they're happier and everything is glorious. The one thing The thing that I came to in all of this time, over 45 years of thinking about these issues, that means more to me than anything else is the following: Behavior makes sense from the actor's perspective, or else he or she wouldn't have done it. And it's the same thing for yourself. If you did it, at the time there was a reason to do it, or else you wouldn't have done it. Now, the problem is, if we're not aware of why we did what we did, and we look back on it, We can see it from a different perspective, and then we take ourselves to task. So, for instance, I am extraordinarily gullible, very gullible. Now, I keep trying to change. I'm never going to be able to change. Why is that? Because going forward, I'm not intending to be gullible. I'm trusting. And as soon as I realize that the reason I did what I did was because I was trusting, I wouldn't change for a moment. Every single negative description of our own behavior or the behavior of others has an equally strong but oppositely balanced alternative. You don't like me because I'm impulsive. That's because I value being spontaneous. I can't stand you because you're so inconsistent. That's because you value being flexible. And so on.

We need to go to a quick break, but we'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.

Picture this: me, Reese Witherspoon, in London ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey Card so I earn rewards wherever I book travel. 5x points with hotels, 4x with airlines, 3x on restaurants and other travel, and 1x 1 point on other purchases. Imagine getting rewarded for eating a toad in the hole.

Wait, what is a toad in a hole? Visit wellsfargo.com/autographjourney.

Terms apply.

Okay, you've got a lot going on, and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to-do list. I get it. So let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number 1 women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women, to support the immune system, vaginal health, and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life Women's Once Daily Probiotic is the real deal, don't, okay? They are certified non-GMO and doctor-formulated for women's unique needs. Foods. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life Formulas for Feeling Alive, available on Amazon. Disclaimer: Number 1, based on Circana 52-week multi-outlet unit sales ending 11/30/25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

We're back with Dr. Ellen Langer. Ellen Langer, we are coming to you from Los Angeles. We are in the land of crystals and sunshine and sand and manifestation. Manifestation is, I think, something that comes to mind whenever we are trying to close the gap using our mind between where we are and where we aspire to be. Is mindfulness related to manifestation at all? And can you share how?

Yes and no. If I want to speak Greek and I don't speak Greek and I think about, wouldn't it be nice speaking Greek? And I get myself dressed as a Greek, I'm not gonna be able to speak Greek. You know, so it depends on the what we're talking about, the particular content. I think that if you say to yourself, you have cancer, but if you keep saying to yourself, I don't have cancer, I don't have cancer, you will still have cancer because the fact of saying that to yourself means that you believe you have cancer and you're trying to change it. All right, so there, there are clearly similarities, but it's very different. And the work that I talk about, especially the work I report in The Mindful Body, is all research-based. There's a great deal of science behind it. Dr.

Langer, I want to better understand what you mean by mindfulness when it comes to your work with healing, because What you just said to Simone was really interesting. I'm not gonna just visualize that I'm— I can speak Greek. But when your mother was 56 years old, she was diagnosed with cancer, and her breast cancer had metastasized and was in her pancreas, which oftentimes means it's terminal. But then something strange happened. I'm glad you pointed that out.

So, her cancer had metastasized to her pancreas, and then, Magically, it was gone, and the medical world couldn't explain it. The mind-body unity idea does explain it. So when you're feeling, you know, the game is over, and now you tune yourself out, the amount of mindlessness is increasing, you're not doing anything to support better health, you're helping to bring about your own demise. And a lot of that is what I object to. When doctors tell you things like you have 3 months to live, there's no way for them to know anything like that. And this is not magical thinking. This is research-based views that are based on an understanding that the medical world only gives us probabilities. And those probabilities then often become self-fulfilling when they don't need to. I am not suggesting we be positive. I'm not suggesting we be negative. What I'm suggesting is we remain uncertain. It's not a problem. It's not a solution. It's not positive or negative. It just is. And then we act on it to form our own experience of it.

We wanna end on a positive, practical takeaway for our Bright Side Besties. It's no secret that stress is a huge problem in this country. Some studies show that nearly half of Americans say that stress negatively impacts their behavior or their lives. Can you share one mindfulness practice that we can start using today to minimize our stress and establish that mind-body unity?

Yes, I write a lot about stress and mindfulness as I study it isn't a practice. It's a way of being that naturally results when we recognize we don't know. So then you naturally tune in. All right. Now, stress is not a function of events. It's a function of the view you take of events. If you take a single-minded negative view, you're going to experience stress. If you open up that view to see the many different things that might be good, bad, indifferent, you're going to feel differently. People need to realize is that most of the things we worry about never end up happening. You know, so that seems a total waste of time. Uh, one-liner for people that some of my friends have put on their refrigerators is, ask yourself, is it a tragedy or an inconvenience? It's almost always just an inconvenience. I bang the car, I miss the appointment, I rip the dress. I mean, whatever it is. And then take a deep breath. All right, now stress is purely psychological. And my own view is that stress is the major culprit in causing disease. All right, so that means if we took people who were diagnosed with dread diseases and we measured their stress, I personally believe that level of stress would determine the course of the disease over and above genetics, nutrition, and even treatment. That's how important I think stress is. But since stress is psychological, that means we can control it. And what we need to do is recognize that events are only what we make of them. You know, that if my internet goes out now, oh my God, no, it wouldn't be, oh my God. I'd go and I'd visit with a friend who's waiting for me inside. We tend not to realize that most of the things that happen are just not important. The older you get, the more you realize this. You know, you're 2 years old, and you banged your knee, and you're screaming bloody murder. You're 7 years old, and Johnny or Janie doesn't send you a Valentine, and, "Oh my God, your world's gonna end." Then at some point, you start to realize this is all kind of silly. Now, you two are young, and what I try to teach my students is, why wait until you're 40? This is something available to all of us right now, to recognize the control we have over our health and our well-being. And it's our thoughts that we can control that determine how we're going to experience the life that we lead. Right now, too many people are sealed in unlived lives. And I've taken it as my mission, essentially, to try to break that seal. Dr.

Langer, your advice about having an internal locus of control and being really in tune with that, I think that's everything. That's the key to happiness. Well said. Dr.

Langer, thank you for joining us today on The Bright Side.

Thank you so much, Dr. Langer.

This was fun. Be well.

Dr. Ellen Langer is a professor of psychology at Harvard University. She's written more than 200 research articles and 13 books. Including The Mindful Body: Thinking Our Way to Chronic Health.

That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, Emma Greed and Ashley Graham join us to talk about the season 2 premiere of Side Hustlers, which is out next week. Thank you to our partners at Cologuard, the one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer in the privacy and comfort of your own home. Talk to your doctor or healthcare provider, or go to cologuard.com/podcast to see if you're eligible to order online. If you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard. You can also request a Cologuard prescription today at cologuard.com/podcast.

Listen and follow The Bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Simone Boyce. You can find me at Simone Boyce.

I'm Danielle Robay on Instagram and TikTok.

That's R-O-B-A-Y. See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.

Picture this: me, Reese Witherspoon, in London, ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Card. Autograph Journey card so I earn rewards wherever I book travel. 5x points with hotels, 4x with airlines, 3x on restaurants and other travel, and 1 point on other purchases. Imagine getting rewarded for eating a toad in the hole. Wait, what is a toad in a hole?

Visit wellsfargo.com/autographjourney. Terms apply.

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