259: How a Dental Practice Owner Grew From 0 to 7 Offices and Gained Her Freedom

One of the things I've learned is learn what I suck at, hire right around that, and then have all these people so much wiser around me that we can tap into and instead of me building a system and plugging someone into it, say, man, you understand this so much better than me, why don't you build the system and allow me to support you? And that has been the greatest win in our company.

Hi, I'm Emmett Scott and just like you, I've had my ups and downs in the dental industry, but times are changing. The DEO has built a map of how to succeed in one of the most challenging industries to navigate. On this show, we talk to dental industry, solve problems and get you the answers you need to face these challenging times and thrive. Welcome to DEO's Growth Secrets podcast for dental Organizations. Now let's get started.

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Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of DEO Growth Secrets. I'm your fearless host Emmett Scott and tonight I'm so excited to be talking to Dr. Whitney Weiner. Dr. Whitney is a board certified periodontist, founder and CEO of Whole Dental Wellness and currently serves as Chief Growth Officer and Board member of Icon Dental Partners. Now I've Whitney for a long Time here in deo, Just talking. She's been in DEO for eight years now. Incredible business person, incredible mentor to so many people. And I think, Whitney, you're one of the ones that, as a leader, just really cares about the people and express your love for people through your business, which is awesome. So great to have you on this call and. Or I guess on the. On this podcast. And I'd love to just go back to your original story and then we can talk about your eventual partnership with Icon as well. So.

Well, thank you, Emmett. I really am honored to be here. I am a raving fan. I've listened to every episode of the show, so it really is an honor to be on the show. So thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, of course.

So you want me to take it back so I. I can rewind the script? So, periodontist by training, finished residency in Chicago in 2013. And, you know, my husband and I are big adventure seekers. We had an opportunity to move abroad and we seized it. And so straight out of residency, we moved to Australia. And I'm not an Aussie. I'm from Iowa. And so it was an adventure trying to get a license down under. You know, I. I appealed the Australian Dental Council. They said no, wouldn't give me a license because I never practiced as a general dentist. But then what happened is I found a loophole, got a license in New Zealand. New Zealand. And then via the Trans Tasmania Reciprocity, and we moved down under. So it was amazing. It was the first two years in my, you know, private practice experience, and we lived in a little surf town about 45 minutes south of Sydney. So I was the only periodontist for 45 minutes. And it was interesting, Emmett, because I couldn't advertise myself as a periodontist. I had to say I was a dentist who was a US trained periodontist. But it was incredible. And I found some mentors there in a group practice that really let me soar. So they said, go out and build it. I started with zero patients. I would drive up and down the coast with my little bag of macaroons. I built a website, called it WDW Implants and Periodontics. And it really started to grow. So it was a lot of fun. I worked really hard. I worked in three of their offices. I would drive up to an hour and a half. Um, but. But really built it out, and it was fun working in a split private public healthcare system.

Yeah. Interesting. So was this like your own practice or as part of a Group like you were doing the website and the advertising and I mean, you're like the ultimate associate.

Yeah, I was a grinder. I was a grinder. So, no, it was my dental team in Australia. I love those guys. Shout out to my dental team, and they were incredible. And so I built my brand within their brand and. And so I had my own little stickers and I would go out and I'd say, you know what? Let's grow together. And they had this entrepreneurial mindset mindset too. I mean, they're just absolutely killing it in Australia now. And so they allowed me to grow within their ecosystem and have my own identity, but learn from the power of team. So that was just a great foundation for the entrepreneurial journey.

Yeah. How cool, man. I can tell you right now, everyone wishes they could hire an associate like you, you know, go build out their own patient base and everything else. So it's awesome. Okay, so you did that for how long?

Almost two years. You know, Elliot, my husband and I were fortunate enough to get pregnant right when we started. And so I moved back to the U.S. 32 weeks and six days pregnant, which is the international deadline to fly. So we connected via Thailand. It was. It was a journey, you know, I had to waddle around the airport and then we came home and three weeks later I gave birth to our son Jake, who's about to be 11. So, you know, and, you know, when we were there, I mean, I always knew I wanted to own a practice. And so from Australia, I knew we were moving back to Metro Detroit. My husband has a family business that's centered here. I'm not from here, so I tried to network. I met every periodontist in town and said, you know what? I want to. I want to be a owner. I want to buy into a practice. But trying to figure out what that looked like with no network in Detroit, I was nervous just to buy a practice full out, you know, a hundred percent, because what's to say that those relationships are going to carry over, you know, especially to be honest, a lot of the practices were older white men. It's a lot of their golf buddies that are referring. How are they going to refer to this young female? They don't know. So I ended up taking an associateship with a partnership opportunity, again, starting with zero patients. But I'd done it before, you know, and so I went out. I went to 300 offices in the first three months. I built my own geo filters. I used MapQuest to try and figure out where to drive around it Built spreadsheets. This was before Monday. And so we did it, you know, and I grew the company and then it became time to execute. The partnership fell apart, Learned a ton and you know, it was probably the best thing that ever happened. Cause I took maybe five or six months off, started studying the market. I had no real business experience except for on the job training and decided I wanted to grow my own group. So that was where whole dental was born. If we were to rewind it, that's the real story.

Yeah. So I mean, two really aggressive associate partnerships that really allowed you to know what it was like to build a de novo practice. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

What a unique opportunity for others they would have shied away. For you, it became an entire platform of education. That helped you probably tremendously when you finally went out on your own.

Yeah, there's nothing like starting with zero twice. You know, it makes you be scrappy. You learn. I learned a lot. Learned what not to do and you learn kind of what to use as an accelerant from. I started a Seattle study club when I was there. I lectured for an implant company. So it was just all these different ways to get the message out there and try and build a brand.

What would you say though, to people? It feels like today there's so much urgency to move faster. I mean, we're so used to Google, you know, pay per click and just give me patience tomorrow. You played a longer game. You know, maybe not everyone can do that, but what's kind of. You're learning from that now looking backwards, do you feel like the market's different or do you still feel like it's built on relationships like that?

You know, I'm a firm believer in relationships. It's one of the reasons I became a periodontist, you know, versus an oral surgeon is I love that long term connection with people. You know, it is a periodontist, the ability to keep having those check ins and have generational relationships. And I think that's everything. Like if we were to really dig into our numbers, which we've done for new patients, we've spent so much money on Google Ads and click, click to pay. But when we looked at it last year, for example, 80% of our new patients came from our existing patients. And we said, wow, how do we hone in to that strategy and dig in there. So then we launched campaigns within our own offices thanking our patients, saying, hey, do you have any more patients like you? We love you. Can you send us more patients? And that has been one of our greatest Growth accelerants versus just the slower, I think, which has a faster evolving door because there's not that trust that's built. And so much of what we do is based on trust, right? It's the relationship, it's the long term and the real raving fans of the company, I think have been in there the longest. It's like all of our team members, our best team members have come from existing team members. I feel the same way about patience.

So what came next? Did you end up buying a practice? Did you start another one from scratch? Did you have another child? I mean, you're accomplishing so many things so quickly.

All of the above. It's a funny story. I bought the first practice in July of 2015. It was actually two general dental offices that I purchased and I also buy the real estate, so I bought the building. It was a space sharing agreement in two practices. I was seven months pregnant. There's a theme. I have three boys. It's always a big inflection point in business when I'm about to have a baby. But I'm done now, Emma, so. But yeah, so I was seven months pregnant, bought the first two GP practices, had no idea what I was doing. You know, can you imagine this pregnant lady coming into these offices and saying, hey, I'm here, I'm Whitney, you know, can't wait to work with you. I'm really excited. And they looked at me like, oh my gosh, what is happening to this company? But we did it, you know, we chipped away at those offices. We were weekend warriors. Cash was really tight, you know, everyone. I think looking back, I have so much pride in how hard it was, Emmett, you know, and at the time it was just like getting through it. But it was also so fun, you know, we were weekend warriors because we couldn't afford to shut down our operatories to remodel. The first office I built, bought, excuse me, had this beautiful long term patient following. But there were carpet in the operatories, there was wallpaper. We had to really get it brand consistent. And so we would have people come in every weekend. With my kids at the time I had a baby, we'd bring them in and we'd remodel one operatory at a time. So it was slow. You know, I learned a lot. But then kind of to fast forward over the last seven years, we purchased seven offices and consolidated them into three locations. And getting smarter every time, learning through failure.

If you were going to go back in time, you know, to Whitney, then from a leadership perspective, what's been some of your biggest takeaways? What did you believe then that now you just have more maturity and understanding around?

That's a great question, Emmett. I think that what I realize now is that I was the bottleneck. And what I've really spent a lot of time focusing on is I, instead of being involved in every micro decision, I've tried to transition myself into architecting the company. And so while I think that that was a great foundation, I mean, I used to take checks home at night and deposit them when my kids would go to bed, you know, learning every aspect of the business because I wanted to have that foundation. I was the stop neck in so much of our growth because I had to be at the helm. And so I think one of the things I've learned is learn what I suck at, hire at that, hire right around that. Right. And then have all these people so much wiser around me that we can tap into. And instead of me building a system and plugging someone into it, say, man, you understand this so much better than me. Why don't you build the system and allow me to support you? And that has been the greatest win in our company, is allowing people to have the opportunity to soar and shine in the areas that they're most passionate about.

How do you respond to someone says, you know, I've tried to hire people or I've tried to give them that and they didn't do as well as I could. So that's why I had to take it back. I can tell you I respond to, and I dated someone in junior high that didn't work out, but I still just kept figuring it out right until I got married. So it does seem sometimes people are a little bit one and done with people or two and done. But how have you solved for that? Because, you know, being a dentist, by nature you're a detailed individual. You can't just wing your work. But also, in order to scale and grow, there has to be room for development, learning and failures. So how have you navigated that personally?

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think, you know, so much of it has to do with ego. And I love looking myself in the mirror and saying how much of the growth that I'm looking for is ego talking and what is my real why? And looking at that, and my why is to uplift people. You know, I think that one of the interesting changes in my journey is if you asked me that, Emmett, 10 years ago, I'd say I want to be the best surgeon in metro Detroit. You know, I want to have the best clinical outcomes and be revered in that. In the last decade, it's shifted, and now I really just want to be an incredible leader who can provide opportunities for our team to take, to grow, to improve their lives, their family's lives, and also to help accelerate our company, because it's all because of that. You know, I, I, I find so much joy in having a team member celebrated even more than myself anymore. And so what I would say is, versus the one and done mentality. Listen, I've had dozens of necessary endings in our company. I'm not afraid of a hard conversation. And with that being said, I fail every day. You know, we teach our kids it's good to fail. We just fail faster. We make mistakes. And allowing everyone in the company to know, like, as the leader, I make mistakes. One of our core values is own it. You know, just today, I shouted out one of our team members who made a pretty major mistake, but she owned it. And I said, thank you so much for that. That's a core value. I love that. How are we going to improve that system so that doesn't happen again? And I think knowing that there's that safe space within our company where we don't celebrate mistakes, but we celebrate the opportunity to do better, and we celebrate the opportunity to invest in one becoming better. It's really that culture and that environment that says, you know what, if you're the right fit and you have our core values, I'll invest all day in you. But if you're not, and you're, you're not humble and you're not willing to lift up a team member, you want to kind of blow their light out. That's when I stop investing, if that makes sense. So it's more about the person and giving them ample opportunity to succeed.

I always see a common theme of growth. So in the beginning, it is around a lot of, like, personal skill development. And your, your customer is the pain client, right? In every industry, and for dentistry, that's our patient. And so being the best clinician really makes a lot of sense. And then the team kind of becomes this necessary evil to support you in your vision. And, and then there's this development I see where it's like, the team starts to become the customer, and you start to realize that the patient is the customer of the customer you're trying to support. But, but also. And I'm wondering how you overcame this, Whitney, when you do become really good at your trade, at your profession, you're now this a student, you're getting lots of accolades. It's very. It's very measurable. On your success, I produced 5,000 a day, 10,000 a day, 20,000, whatever it might be. I can look at a schedule I can check off, like the completion. I'm giving high fives to patients, whatever it might be. Then you move to the next level up, and it's like, so had a hard conversation. Susie didn't quit. Frank's not going to yell it, you know, Jane anymore, whatever it is, it's just not as measurable. And you're worse at it. Like, you're just not good at it in the beginning, especially. Right. You have the wrong conversations. You do those things. How did you give yourself, I guess, permission to do that? And how did you make that enjoyable? Right. For most people, they want to. Yeah, they want to run back to being a great clinician where they feel safe again, and then kind of make excuses like, well, there's just no good people to hide. Well, you just can't find associates these days, whatever it might be. But whenever you really get under the hood on that, it's really. I just have terrible skill sets and leading, and I don't want to spend the time to learn those when I could just be a great clinician and produce a bunch, you know?

You know, it's a great question, Emmett and I, to your first point, I learned from you, you know, that you're my team, is my customer, right. And if I do well with our team, then our team provide the best quality care for the people we serve and the communities we serve. So that's how I view our team. Like, my job is to do best by them so they can do best by our patients. Because I, you know, I stepped away from the chair about two years ago, and so now my role is 100% in leadership and business. And less the surgery, right. Less scalpel, less sutures, more wrap a bow on it. Cultural love, driving accountability and understanding of pnl. And so, you know, with that going back to what you said, I think the safety net is being the super producer and stepping back into that role. I mean, for years and years when we had cash flow issues and I was trying to take a step back because I knew that getting out of the chair was going to allow me to scale and grow our company because I needed to be that architect, not the firefighter. And when I would talk to our cfo, he'd say, well, Whitney, just go back a day, a week, and you can outproduce all of our cash problems. And I said, well, no, Scott, because that's a band Aid. And he's like, yeah, but we could use band Aid. I'm like, but I don't want to regress. And so I think it's so easy to slip back into that because it's comfortable and it does make your bank account look, wow, like, world of difference. But what's the end game and what's the long term goal? And are we committed to that? And that's what I would challenge myself on and say, okay, what is my why? And you know me, I mean, my why has never been the sexy number at the end. And so for me, it's less about packing that cash in the bank, is about trying to get to the ultimate goal, which is again, almost undefinable. It's just about growing with the right people. In my 40s now, I'm just about spending time. Like time is the one an honor. Noble KPI, Right? So who are we spending it with and who's your pack? And so I think that it's really what you're talking about, I believe is entrepreneur to executive. And you just wrote a beautiful article on that. I loved it. And so, you know, I continually oscillate between those two. The entrepreneur, all the sexy, shiny things. We go to the DEO course now. I want to implement these technologies. We have an AI answering the phones. Let's outsource this. The team doesn't love that part of me, but it's real because I love challenging and pushing boundaries. And now what I'm trying to do is, as the executives say, what's the ROI on that? I dope that. And then make sure that it's what's best for the company and not just a passion project that we're not going to follow through on. Because I have 10 of them. So I think it's that discipline to know, okay, what role am I? Am I the super producer, operator, surgeon? Not anymore. Am I the entrepreneur? Yes. Some days. Where am I trying to go? It's to be the disciplined executive. And so I feel like I still live between those boundaries. Boundaries. But my goal is to continue to be more disciplined and allow systems to run our business, not people. But then surround myself with the right people to continue to drive and to

do that while raising three boys is pretty impressive. You know, I think women are in an interesting spot. I don't know if it's a competitive advantage. Others might feel like, you know, it's something holding them back. But at the end of the day, for a lot of men, they can just kind of stay focused on one thing. They get a few more hours in the day, I think, than women do. But women really have to be able to manage, especially women with children. Multiple facets of this. Did you feel like that helped push you into. Like, I have to figure this out because you're defining success beyond just like, I want to have a bunch of practices or I want to have a bunch of revenue. Right.

Yeah. No, exactly. And, you know, my husband and I joke. We always say, if you want to get something done, give it to a busy person. And I believe in that wholeheartedly because, you know, when there's so much time. And I. I am. I'm very intentional with time. You know, especially like today, I had a block on my schedule to help my son with homework because he's in algebra, and it's really challenging. And so I want to schedule my day around that. And so because of that, if there's only so many hours of the day, Emmett, to your point, I'm going to be dialed on those calls that are all about business and whether it be, you know, today with Icon's operation team and then an HR concern issue, and then that mistake that I mentioned earlier and how do we handle that? With love. Right into algebra. And then my husband's putting the kids to bed. Hopefully they're not making noise above us right now, and then we'll do it all again tomorrow. And I'm honored that I can drop them off at school because I am so intentional about trying to be present in whatever space I'm in. And I fundamentally believe harmony and balance is kind of a fallacy. You know, I feel like I'm. If I'm not, I'm always failing at something. Right? Every yes is a no. But how are we intentional? How am I being intentional about being all in where I am? And so to answer your question, I. I do think being a mom is a superpower when it comes to that because we are so dialed and so intentional because we. For me, I want to be a poetry day, Thursday at 10am to celebrate my son Wes, which was last week. And thank goodness, now that I'm in that executive entrepreneurial role, I can do that, you know, And Emmett, I almost cry when I'm at those things now because for so long, I call it chained to the chair. I. I could never attend those things for my kids. And so I'm just proud of being a present mom and being able to be myself. And for Me growing a company is just such a part of who I am. I wouldn't be as good of a mom if I didn't have that piece of it. Really?

Yeah. I love that you called out that, you know, balance is a fallacy. You can just kind of focus your passion, and that corollary of every yes is a no. I think as entrepreneurs, this can mature us very quickly, which is, if we do want to do this idea, what are we saying no to? Because we often pretend that if we speak it, we have resources for it. Right. Like, I want to fix this. I want to do this. Wouldn't it be cool if. And then we look at our team who's trying to scramble to figure out what the heck is the priority. So it sounds like you've done a lot of work there to really understand how to. I dope things, how to prioritize for those who are looking to scale and grow. I'd love to hear your mistakes.

Oh, how long do we have them?

And buying a practice, maybe, specifically, what is like, one where you thought, this is going to go great and it did not go great? And what would be your takeaway from that that helped you see on the next one, maybe what to look for that you didn't think of the first time?

That's an excellent question. And I'm trying to be really reflective. You know, my mind goes to two things. One was, like, circumstantial timing. I bought our first specialty office at Perio practice two weeks before COVID shut down, and I was seven months pregnant again. So that was the most stressful time, but it was pandemic driven because I was trying to figure out. You help me with that so much. Right. What's a furlough? Triple P. When are we going to activate it? Will it be paid back? You know, all of those things. So I think that the circumstance made that the most intense time, and it was just correlated with the practice purchase. But outside of the pandemic, you know, I think being enticed by numbers over people, you know, and. And that really being a guardian of the culture, and you never really know. And what I mean by that is, so I've. I've acquired via acquisition. And so you meet with a doctor and you go through the numbers, the financials, but you're not allowed to meet the team, and you don't really know the culture. Right. And you're pulling char. Looking at chart audits and looking at quality of care and trying to do our best, even if it's a chart that's paper or an analog system and we know we're going to convert that and that's not a big deal. But I think that really, if I could rewind, it would be spending more time with the doctors that were acquiring or that are joining our company to make sure it's a core value fit. Because in the past I wasn't nearly as disciplined about that. I thought, okay, here's the practice that's referring everything out. We have all in house specialists. This is what the ROI is going to be. We can bolt on this many hundreds, thousands of dollars because we're not referring out. We're going to hone our systems going digital, you know, like all of the different things that bolt on. We're on a P and L. It looks so sexy because that profit number goes up so quickly. But if the foundation isn't there and if the core value set isn't there, it's not going to work long term. So I guess I would say move slow, to move fast and spend more time on that relationship with the doctor. If you're intending on having a transition that's more than a year.

Yeah, no, that's really powerful. I mean, this is such a people intense business.

Exactly.

And I think we try so many ways to make it not that, you

know, hard commoditize a patient industry, you know, and so that's the biggest thing.

Right. And, and for now we're very dependent upon how those relationships work, whether people feel inspired and productive. And we're in a tough industry. You know, I, I looked and we saw this really play out or post Covid as people could make similar dollars working at Home Depot and McDonald's. And one of the things I realized quickly was they could also feel successful in those models faster than with us. You know, I mean, it's one thing to be able to move french fries, it's another thing to do RCM collection process or insurance verification, like the learning curve is so much longer. And do we give room for that? Do we make it feel like they're progressing or do we make it feel like they're always failing? And I think when you look at turnover rates, you see it more amongst the entrepreneur dentists because they're always like, and then we're going to do this and we're going to do this thinking they're inspiring the team when mostly their team just feels like, I still haven't figured out the basics and I have no support and you're already moving on, et cetera. So anyway, I just heard all of that kind of in some of your statements, you can get. Get excited about the potential and forget that it's only as good as it's executed through the people. And it might expose that you're not that great with people yet. You know, exactly. What do you think was the. What do you think was one of the best things you did? And maybe it's. Maybe it's the inverse of that.

Right.

Like, did you just get better and better at. Like, this is going to be about the people. And if I take care of the people, the numbers tend to play out.

I really think that that's my North Star. You know, if I. I've spent a lot of time in the last year trying to get to the. Really just the ethos of the why and like, what is it and what is the success? And it's people. Right? It's all people. And when you have the right relationships. To your point, Emmett, we're rewarding people. And yes, you know, RCM is so complex in your example versus French fries. And it's sad. Wage inflation is so real and margin compression and all the things that we don't need to go into. But with that, it's. It's just, how do we continue to. To celebrate the team? And we work really hard on that, you know, and. And whether it be like our core value Awards we have every year we try and lift up and celebrate each team member. I think that that's just. It's just one of the things that we try and. And focus on.

Mm. Some people might be listening to you and feel like, I don't know, swing the pendulum too much. Right. Sometimes I get on with. With an owner and I'm like, yeah, you're a doormat. Right.

Like, I have been a doormat.

Okay.

I'm working on it.

How do you find that balance? I mean, I really like Kim Scott's structure with radical candor. Right. That there's a spectrum of caring deeply that you need to be on. And there's a spectrum of communicating clearly. Right. So if you care deeply, but you're not communicating clearly, then you fall into that. That quadrant that I've been in so many times, which is ruinous empathy. Right. And that. Yeah. And the team members actually prefer somebody who can communicate clearly, like a Steve Jobs, just because even if you didn't get along with him, you knew exactly where you st. But of course, the ultimate in culture, if you will, is when you're communicating clearly. This is working. This isn't. You need to step up Here. But also they feel like you care deeply. So a lot of what. What I've heard you say is about the caring part. How are you integrating as someone who does care deeply about people? How have you kind of grown into the communicate clearly part or setting boundaries, other might say, or, you know, I. At an event and someone, they asked everyone, how many of you have a high tolerance rate for risk, you know, and how many of you can. Are very flexible. And then, and then at the end he goes, okay, you're all the people that are terrible at setting boundaries and your standards aren't high enough, you know, or something like that, you know, it kind of caught you.

He shrinks down.

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, how did you find that balance? Because I bet we have some people listening in who are like, yeah, my turnover is really high because they're kind of jerks and they don't give people enough time to actually grow. And then you have some that's like, my turnover is not high, but like, my costs are through the roof and I'm not making any money. I'd be better off just being an associate, you know.

I hear you and it's such a great question. And it's been a big. It's been an evolution for me. And it's a weakness of mine. It really is. Holding people accountable is a weakness. And I've learned that. And so we've said, you know, high love, high accountability. And with that, Emmett, really what we've tried to do is get to the point where we have certain KPIs that everyone owns. And then it's very clear that those are the things that each team member is responsible for. So on our operations meeting, every practice manager goes through our scorecard. They have 10 things they're responsible for. I like colors. I'm visual. It's color coded. It's green or red. They're reported every week. Our doctors, they know exactly what they're responsible for auditing. At the end of the day, initials go in. If you have any questions, come talk to me, you know, And I think that for me, because I've been weak in the system before. In the last year, I've been trying to up level without giving people whiplash, to be honest. And I look myself in the mirror and I have some people at our company that I have gut checked me. My coach tribe, coach Michael Irving's one of them. I'm like, time for my therapy session. Shout out to the Eagle Tribe. But you know, with that being said, it's like, hey, am I Being too tough. And if I'm looking at myself in the near, the answer is always no from my friends, but feels like it to me. And so I think that it's really just helping people understand what the line is. And I'm failing them if they don't know. Right. Tell me what success looks like. What do you need to see for me to have success in my role? And then how do I raise my hand and say I need help? Because to me, someone saying they need help is the ultimate gift. It shows so much vulnerability, and I will invest all day. And so I think that really it's just drawing that line, understanding that two or three KPIs you're responsible for. This is how we expect them to be presented. Here's the lever we would like you to try and pull to help adjust if needed. And then beyond that, we're here for coaching. And so in the last six to nine months, we've been really intentional about setting that up because I have not been great at that at the past. And to be honest with you, people are loving it. I was nervous about it. And I've had so many. I mean, especially dental assistants that are like, thank you, thank you for holding everyone accountable. Thank you for saying, you know what, from the doctor to the front office to the assistant to the sterile tech to the surgeon, you know, we are all one team, one tribe. We've been saying this for so long, but now winery are actually, you're doing it. And so it's been challenging, but I think that it really is a gift.

Yeah. Do you know what kind of people like goals and accountability? A type people, you know, like any people want players. Exactly. And the ones who typically leave are the ones who are like, yeah, she's nice, but I'm looking to grow and develop. I've had a very similar experience. I remember it was actually right after I read Radical Candor, and I thought, I really need to step up and create more accountability. And I kind of like, you didn't want to give people whiplash. And I went to my assistant and said, I'm really going to work on this. I just want you to know. So if I come across too much and. And I don't want to make you cry or anything, you know, like, I did all of this stuff and. And then I just started leaning into it. And some people knew that I was trying to improve my leadership skills. We were probably at 30 million at the time or so forth. And then. And some people didn't. What I was shocked is like you within a few weeks, people said, I don't know what you're doing different, but your leadership has really improved. And I always think of all of us as kind of like broken Walmart carts where we all pull to one side or the other. And so you're constantly fighting it. And it feels really weird when you get a little bit more direct or you're a little more patient. Whichever side is harder for you, it feels like you're either being like, you know, way overly gracious or you're a total jerk. But to everyone else it feels fine. Like it's, it's just you improving and becoming better. So anyway, it's just interesting. The, the patterns are, are very similar. I also love that you called in the KPIs and the financials multiple times. I just, I think having that third party in the room for leadership is so important. We had a moment in dentistry where it became this anti dso and so everyone, I guess their response to that was we're not going to have any accountability for doctors, no standards of care. It was just this weird autonomy game. Right? Which I think a lot of doctors were actually turned off by, especially today. They want mentorship, they want to know, like, what is best practices, et cetera. So how have you kind of found that balance on the clinical side? Because I feel being the Chief Dental Officer is more important than being the CEO. Right. It sets the standard for how the business actually is going to run and how the CEO actually steps into this. So tell me a little bit about how you've had to develop into that CDO part. Because telling an office manager they need to improve is one thing. Telling a doctor, I mean, now you're talking religion and politics, you know, very challenging of it.

It's very challenging. You know, I think that that's, that's a conversation I struggle with as well too, because I never want to overstep. And all of our doctors are incredible and have their own autonomy and their own, you know, their own viewpoint. Like they always say, ask 20 dentists who get 20 different treatment plans. Right? But what is our North Star and what is our standards? So for example, when we have new general dentist associates come in, I've kind of been a psycho, but for three months I look at every single crown seed X ray, right? Thank goodness for AI. Now it makes it a heck of a lot easier, but those are some of the things that I used to do. And now it's more, you know, with our seasoned doctors just saying, how can I support you as a Periodontist. This is how I see things. I look at a global treatment plan. You know, how can I help make sure that we're not being myopic and looking at the cracked tooth and make sure that we're looking at the overall person. That's why we named the company Whole Dental. You know, I'm my. A lot of my research was in oral systemic link. I love how, you know, that's finally getting some light that it's deserved for decades. And so how are we making sure that the patient, not the mouth, is who we're serving? And so I think that it's just more high level conversations that I allow each of our associates to dig into the level that they want. You know, some are looking for mentorship, but I'm also not a general dentist. And I respect that. Right. Who am I to tell someone what bonding agent or what crown prep or whatever? But it's more. So how can I help you in the art of private practice? How can I support you in getting the education that you think would help, you know, up level you and your space? Because I'm not the guru in it, but I can help direct in an area where we can continue to up level and uplift you within our. Our ecosystem, essentially.

So tell us about this transition to ICON Dental Partners. Now you're part of that group. You went from associates to entrepreneur, growing into executive, and now you're part of a bigger DSO organization. Michael told me that one of the things you negotiated in that deal is that you get to continue to be in deo, which I think so cool.

Of course, I love deo, so didn't even have to negotiate icons pro D E O. So I think that, you know, the, the real answer there, Emmett, is, you know, it's interesting. It's when I was on the COVID of the magazine for DEO and I was so honored, right? And this article was coming out, it was like high love, high accountability. I'm from Iowa. She built it. And I remember I came up to you and I was like, emmett, you got to pull the COVID And you're like, what are you talking about? And I was like, we just had our worst financial quarter ever. I am a failure. Pull the COVID Get it off. And you looked at me and you said, whitney, everyone in this room, inside that moment, you're just the only one voicing it. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I was at a DEO meeting and this is the power of the deo. And I grabbed one of my friends Tanner Applegate there. And he's like, get your laptop. He's like, let's go, Weiner. And I was like, okay. So we went. We sat out for an hour and a half. He's like, you're running an incredible company. You're out over your skis a little bit because you overbuilt your resource center. And you probably made your building a little bit too cool because we had just expanded and added 1200 square feet, and I picked some really cool finishes that maybe was more about me than the company. And so he was like, you know what? This is just where we're going to reign it in. And so I think the humility in that moment and having these mentors around me and the deo, then I went back, we had some necessary endings. We got leaner, and we came out and crushed in Q1 of last year. And so the reason that I mentioned that is I think that that pivotal moment of being on that cover, having one of my great failures or one of the moments where I looked inward and evaluated my why, I said, okay, what is this? And for me, why? Why am I building? What am I building toward? And in our organization, we've always said our BHAG, you know, eight to 10 locations by 2030. Our entire team knows this, but who do I want to get there with and what brings me joy? And it was funny because I was at the Seattle. I'm on the board for Seattle Study Club. I also love Seattle Study Club. And I was at their symposium, and they invited me to go to a lunch with ICON Dental Partners. And I said, no. And, you know, because DEO members, we get calls all the time, right, from DSOs and private equity that wants to invest or family office. They're like, no, just go. It's like, okay, I'll go. So I go to the lunch, and I just loved the people. And you know me, I'm all about people, and I just loved them. And I loved what they were saying. And it was all about what you said. Autonomy. How do we build smarter together. It's Dr. Own, Dr. Led. And it resonated with me, but I didn't believe it, right? I was like, oh, that sounds great, but no, it's not. Can't be true. But I stayed in touch with them, and it just kept feeling right and right. And then eventually they asked me to send in my numbers. I sent in my numbers. We got to that point, and then I was like, okay, I really am interested. Hired attorneys, spent a lot of time betting it. It Was all true. Which, again, I'm a trust but verify kind of person, Emmett. You know, and so it was one of those things where it just felt right. And it was at a time in my life where I knew and my best friends in the industry, who are, you know, some of our titans in the industry, like you, and they're like, you know, Whitney, I don't know how long I wanted to be a lone wolf. And I say that because I used to find so much pride in that. And I was like, man, it's just me, you know, I got the first loan from the SBA, and my parents loaned me 10% to buy the first practice because every other bank told me no. And then because I buy the real estate and the practices are over 50%, I'm sole owner. Guess what? I got to put 0% down for the entire company. And finally, two years ago, three years ago, I had a local bank that said, you know what? You built it, you proved it here, we're going to wipe out all your personal guarantees. You don't need to have real estate stack like, we got you here, got standard of this debt service coverage. We got you. And so I was at a point where I didn't need any. I didn't need anyone, but why was I doing it? And so I spent a lot of time really thinking about that. And actually, I went to meet with two of my really good friends in the industry, and they're like, whitney, sign right now. You. These are your people. I was like, okay. And I did it. And, Emmett, what I would tell you is, in all transparency, like, I'm just lighter. It's interesting. I still own my company, I still run my company. There's not a lot of difference other than I am just surrounded by people smarter than me, which I've always believed in. Know what you suck at? High around it. You know, I remember Gary Vee saying that. I love that. And now it's 90 owned by doctors. I have all these partners that want to help. Help improve each other's practices. And it's not purely altruistic, right? We all stock in each other's company. I'm one of the lowest ebitdas in the platform, I'll say that honestly. And so, you know, one of our partners flew out three weeks ago, come. He came shadowed, helped me figure out some operational leaks. We ran a meeting with associates, and our associates are juiced to have other doctors that want to help them grow and mentor them. So I feel like for me, it was just time to experience Expand. And I've had these incredible rooms, like DEO where I go and see all my buddies that are killing it in business, and Seattle study club, where I go and I, like, get nerdy and treatment planning. And now I've got my squad that's building something better for dentistry by dentists. And that's, like. You can tell. I get excited. It's, like, juicing me. So I'm really pumped.

It's awesome. Okay. Somebody's listening to this. They're at. Back at the entrepreneurial stage. They've got a practice, maybe two. They're looking up to you. They're seeing kind of the journey you've been on. What would you tell them? What do they need to think about, focus on?

You know, I would say really dial into your why. What is your why? And there's not a right answer. And so I think that instead of it being performative and what you think you want to hear, what number you want to get to, what makes you happy, and. And run at that. Because if you can really get dialed with that, that is a superpower. Right. So is it more time with your family? Is it the ability to travel more? Is it financial? That's fine. That's not evil. But if you figure out what it is and run toward that, you'll build a heck of a better business plan and probably be a catalyst for your growth.

Yeah. One of my favorite sayings is, I can give a man anything he wants. The hard part is for him to figure out what he wants.

Exactly.

And I. I push that back on myself consistently, because the hardest thinking I do have is like, okay, what do I want to do now? And I think for a lot of us, we've actually climbed a lot of mountains that we thought, like, oh, if I could ever get there. And then we kind of move the goalposts constantly, always.

We have to take time to celebrate. That's what I try and do with all my friends, too. Right. They're like, oh, I just did this, like, milestone accomplishment. You're like, like, we're gonna pause. Here's some balloons. We're gonna celebrate this before you go crush the next thing, you know?

Yep. So it. It's. It's hard to do that. It's hard to also decide what is the right next thing. And as you mature, I think you realize, as you said at the beginning so wisely, there's opportunity costs, too. In the beginning, you don't think there's any opportunity cost. You're just like, I'm gonna do it.

All young and naive, and then you

realize there's some trade off. Whitney, this has been absolutely fabulous. I think it hits at the heart of dentistry and entrepreneurship and what so many people are trying to figure out. Of course, we can get into the tactical. You know, you talked about the compression that's happened in margins. We're about to walk into some really interesting times with AI and technology and all of those things. So there's plenty of exciting and challenging things ahead. But. But I think the part that's going to be eternal and universal that you've hit on is this will always be some form of a people business. Right. Even if we do figure out how to train optimists to help us on some things, there's still going to be a human on the other side that's going to want that touch and that feel. And I think there will be a competitive advantage that you've brought to the table. So thank you so much for sharing your story and being so authentic and honest and not pretending like it was just up and to the right.

No, there's a lot of foul balls, Emmett. There's a lot of foul balls. And just piggybacking on what you said, too. I think that that's everything, right? It's. People aren't the soft side of business, and I think that that's where a lot of it's going. But really, to me, people are the strategy.

It's awesome. Well, thank you so much. If you want to connect more with Whitney, you can always. Jo. We've got a fun event coming up here in April. You can go to deodentalgroup.com sign up to do one of our growth accelerator calls, and until next time, keep smiling. Thank you for listening to deo's Growth Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Continue the conversation on our Facebook group and meet other dental leaders. Get questions answered and the strategies you need to succeed. Plus, we have some free resources for you right there on the Facebook page. Remember, you're not alone. Let's do this together. Join DEO's Growth Secrets Group on Facebook, and until next time, keep smiling.