The CEO Shift: Moving from Functional Leadership to Enterprise Leadership #132

Welcome to the Proteus Leader Show, a podcast for forward-looking leaders driving transformation in their organizations, within their teams, or for themselves. Your host today is a senior leader at Proteus International, a firm that partners with companies around the world to make true transformation easier through change consulting, leadership development, and executive coaching. If you're looking for fresh perspectives and practical insights you can take back to work today, you're in the right place. Enjoy the episode.

When I moved from CFO to CEO, I quickly realized that the shift was not only about taking on more responsibility, it was about changing the way I saw the business, the team, and myself as a leader. Welcome to the Proteus Leader Show. Today, we're talking about one of the biggest shifts a leader can make, moving from functional leadership to enterprise leadership. My guest today, Andrew Kendall, has lived that shift in a very powerful way. Andrew is a former CEO of New York Interconnect. After a career spanning Google and Waze, NBCUniversal, the Olympics, NASCAR, IMG, and the NBA, he has led sales, partnerships, business development, and revenue organizations. And at Google, he built a relationship development center of excellence. that became a permanent division supporting more than 3,500 sellers. What I'm especially excited to explore with Andrew is not just what changed in his role, but what changed in him as a leader. How do you move from leading a function to leading the whole enterprise? What do you have to let go of? What do you have to learn? Andrew, welcome to the Proteus Leader Show.

Thanks, Marie, for having me. It's a privilege to be here. As I'm quite familiar with Proteus and the strong work you and your team do, so thrilled to have a conversation and it is a A fascinating topic that I went through myself and went through the struggles and hopefully some successes through. And I look forward to sharing our challenges through it and what we've learned.

So let's dive into it. When you moved into the CEO role at New York Interconnect, what felt most different from your previous leadership roles in sales, partnerships, and revenue?

So first of all, you spend 20, 25 years building to sell things, to lead a function, et cetera. But you always have a boss. There's always someone who's giving you direction, and your nature is to go back to your core skillset, which in my case was around revenue function. And all of a sudden you are thrust into a role where you have actually someone working for you who does that thing that you believe you're best at and have been successful at. And that's a bit scary because there's all of a sudden a lack of control. Then you have 5 to 7 other functional areas of a company where there are leaders running those functional areas. that you are expected to guide and provide vision to and know the answers around and be a final decision maker. And so that's incredibly challenging. You then have a board. So it's a boss but a non-boss. Sometimes boards are in unison with each other. Sometimes they disagree. Sometimes they're looking to you for answers. Sometimes they want to give you answers. And lastly, it's quite lonely when you are the last line of decisioning. You feel that everyone expects you to have the right answer and the right vision and be able to guide them correctly. And, you know, I'd be lying if I said it isn't scary. I think that was the initial emotion and feeling I faced in that moment. How about you?

Yeah, I feel the same fear. And especially as you described, you had a function. You were the experts, the go-to person for you as a CRO, for me as a CFO. And so, I think managing that function from higher up still feels okay. You just have to let go. But the other functions, suddenly you're like, oh, I've never been in charge of those functions, and now I need to guide them. That part of the unknown was the scariest for me.

Yeah, certainly. Imagine all of a sudden you have a CFO working for you, you have a COO, and you have Let's say an HR function leader, right? In that case, for me, I didn't have CFO experience, reading a balance sheet, understanding a P&L, certainly not people ops nor technical operations experience. The first thing that I felt necessary to do was, A, learn from them, right? You have to give yourself to people that work for you. And if you think you know more than them, you're a fool and you'll fail, right? But that's not what you're expected to do. So you have to learn from them. And frankly, understand the business holistically, which you didn't before. You understood a singular function. For you, CFO. For me, CRO, right? So you're learning all new parts of the business. You have tangential understanding of what's going on and how that works and what's profitable, et cetera. But still, you need to learn that. Next, you go into talent assessment mode, right? Who are these leaders? Are these people I believe in? Are these people competent? And what is the feedback they've received from their teams? What does the board think of them? What are their reputations in the marketplace, right? So you're sort of going through and understanding or a learning process about people, which I think is the most important in that moment, because you're certainly not gonna lean in and do their job, but you need to know that they can do their job successfully.

Yes.

So I think that was something I focused on first. Next is strategy and vision, right? When you are a functional leader, you know, whether it's revenue or finance, you have a vision for how you want to run that function. But when you move into a CEO seat, you have to provide That vision and that strategy for the entirety of the company.

Yes.

And, and find something that is salient, that everyone can coalesce around, that people believe in you, believe in what you're saying, and believe that you're gonna bring about some sort of incremental and positive change or support to them. And it's a lot. And I think people who try to go that moment alone without talking to advisors and peers and other people who have been in the role Most likely would be hard pressed to find success in it. And when we were speaking prior to this conversation, we were talking about being okay failing or being okay not knowing what you're doing. And giving yourself the space to know that it's going to take you some time to get to where you want in this role is okay. And you need to be clear with your team.

Yes.

You need to be clear with your board, and you need to be clear with the employees that there is a curve that you will be going through too in the first 3 to 6, 9 months, right? And I think being upfront and honest about that gives you the space to learn and allows you to ask the questions you need without feeling the insecurity of everyone expecting that you know the answer.

Yes, I love that, kind of managing expectations with the team. And in my case, when I became CEO, I went on this listening tour. So back to your point, really listening and at the same time evaluating your team and confirming or not that they're the right team to support you. I think another point that came to mind was getting help. In my case, 11 years ago, this was actually the first time I met Proteus because I was supposed to do the vision and strategy. And my team was quite resistant to change and we had to move into the digital kind of network. I was at NBCUniversal. To really build the digital vision and strategy, I need an external facilitator that's going to help me do that. I need to be part of the team, and I need everybody to feel they're contributing to that vision and strategy. I cannot just come and say, this is the answer, this is what everybody needs to do, because I wouldn't get the support from the team that was needed. And this is where I felt JUICE was a wonderful advisory firm that helped me be less lonely in those challenging moments.

So great point. I think when you look at your leadership team, when you start, you want to create a low ego, low competitive environment so that people can come together and have open dialogue where you're a member of the team when you're talking to them. You're not just leading them. And you need to be able to listen and have them feel that they are not being judged or auditioning for a role in the beginning of your tenure. That way, you can start to establish credibility and trust and understand them. And it's important to create an environment where they feel psychological safety and not, oh, there's a new leader who's going to exit me if I don't say the right thing. In unsavory fashion, you may decide after 6 to 12 months that certain leaders don't make sense for the team. But in the beginning, everyone needs to be able to be who they are so that you can understand who they are and they can feel that openness. If you don't do that, people would feel threatened immediately, and they wouldn't bring who they are to the table. And so there is an uncomfortable dynamic there, but that's important.

Yeah, it's really how you build trust and alignment by allowing them to be their authentic self. Now, if we go to the revenue function, That you used to manage, there's also a challenge there. I can remember when you have expertise, when you know how things can be done more quickly, better, there is a desire to jump in. And so what did you have to let go when you think about that function where you used to be in charge?

Yeah, that for me, that functional expertise and letting go in some capacity was certainly one of the hardest challenges. I remember when I became a director at Google. The functional lead of all of sales said, you can't be a super account executive or a super manager. Your job is to help people do their jobs better, not do their jobs for them and believe you can do their job better than they can. These are talented people, and the reason you're in this role is because you had people there already who are good, and we believe you can help make them better. So that's really hard. Now, I do think it's okay to keep your skills sharp. It is okay in a revenue function, even as a CEO, to still meet with your top customers. It is It's okay to have sales-oriented discussions with your leaders about what they're doing and be excited about that, but you're not owning it. And you have to believe that their style of a relationship and their style of how they approach customers is going to be successful, and that is the way they're going to do it. And all you can do is help them, not force them to use whatever worked for you for the majority of your career.

Yeah.

It's really a leap of faith. There's no way to know that's going to work. But what I can promise you is if you don't do that, your company will fail. They will not feel empowered, and you will fail as a leader. So if you don't take the leap, you're guaranteed to fail.

Yes. I think you're right. You have to give them a chance to do it their way and be there if they ask for help or advice. But Take that leap. I completely agree.

The great part is if you have good people working for you, even though you thought you were the best at what you did forever, you might actually look at them and say, wow, that person's really talented, and there's a reason they're here. And maybe I could have learned from them when I was also in a functional leadership role. And I'm glad to have that person, right? That's what you're hoping is the outcome of watching them and listening.

Yes. And I think you're describing indirectly one of the best qualities, I think, for CEOs is humility there, because then you need to listen, you need to trust your team, you need to be there to support them. But really, you need to let go of that ego that you'll do things better than them.

Yeah, it's funny. That's 100% true. And then the flip side of that is when you come into a CEO role, especially if you haven't already worked at the company, there are other people in the organization that maybe Different stakeholders, board, et cetera, that have preconceived opinions of people that work for you that you may not know, right? Or they tell you when you walk in the door, oh, Marie is the best, or Marie needs a lot of help.

Mm-hmm.

That may be true. It may not be true, but you have to create space for yourself to do your own evaluation process and not let the opinions of others color how you view functional leaders that work for you. If you don't, you'll just make other people's decisions. You might make the wrong decision. And that takes, you know, that does actually take a bit of ego to push back and say, hey, I hear your opinion on someone.

Yes.

But I need to evaluate them, and it's going to take 6 to 9 months. So even if this is someone who really shouldn't be in the company, Or this is someone who actually deserves a bigger role in the company. I'm gonna look at that, but I need the time to do that, and you need to give me the space to do that.

Yeah. So you need confidence in your judgment. And to your point, listening is not agreeing. Exactly.

Exactly.

You see what I mean? Yes.

I think what my wife would tell me, I neither listen nor agree. But yes, in a workplace environment, certainly.

Now, many CEOs, and you did that already, talk about the importance of having a trusted mirror. People who can challenge their thinking, help them clarify priorities, and support their growth. So what has been your experience in having trusted advisors and how have they helped you in your leadership journey?

Yeah, I love that you said a trusted mirror because when I was introduced as CEO, when I was talking about why I was excited for the role and what I expected of the team, The analogy I used was the mirror. That's the most important person in the room that you have as an employee at the bottom or at the top. So I, I love that analogy. But going to your point about advisory, there are certain functional things like 360 feedback, which can happen later, or what is the perception of you? But when you're talking to an advisor, you need to let your guard down and you need to tell them what you're insecure about, what your challenges are, how you view functions, and really You know, listen to their perspective because they've frankly worked with other CEOs 5, 10, 20 times over. So this may not be a person who is a CEO, but their job and a good advisor is to relate others' experiences to you and how they've helped them and mistakes they've seen them make. And you need to listen and understand how you best can go through that process and give yourself to that advice. And to those and to that shared wisdom, and that is such a valuable part of advisory. You know again, knowing that you don't know how to do it perfectly, and knowing that this person, while they may not understand your specific role, understands people who have been through the growth that you're going through, and that they can help you do that. And that I couldn't have done what I did without having someone to talk to on a regular basis about how I was feeling. And affirming that I was at least approaching my decision incorrectly, right? An advisor's not gonna tell you whether you're making the right decision for your business. They're gonna tell you how to approach making a decision about people and strategy. What are the things to consider and where you can get to the best evaluation point where you have to just say, okay, I'm gonna make this decision. That is incredibly valuable for me.

Yes. They will challenge your process, maybe not the outcome. They might. Push you to take another step, ask more questions. And as you said earlier, it's a very lonely job, and having someone you can talk to, be completely honest with, through ups and downs, is incredibly valuable. And they bring the stories of other people that have been in your shoes, probably different context, different situation. But it still helps, I think, people to normalize the experience they're going through.

Yeah. So one other thing that advisory really helped me understand was how deeply I needed to educate myself about each of my direct reports' functional areas, right? How much do you need to learn about the finance role? How deep do you need to go? In educating yourself so that you are able to make decisions and have a holistic view of the business, but not get stuck in the minutia and the weeds, or I'm never gonna learn cost accounting or how to onboard someone in HR, right? So what is the level down you want to go in learning about each of the areas that your leaders oversee? I had no idea how deep I should go or how shallow I should go, and I needed a lot of help. With a strategic plan on educating myself about each of their disciplines and those areas of the business.

Yes. Now, I bet that listeners are wondering, you know, how do you find those trusted advisors, those people you can talk to about everything and get the quality, also the confidentiality, that access? What was your process?

Yeah. So, First of all, my process has always cast a wide net, right? There are tons of different shapes and sizes of advisory, but I think first and foremost for me, it was about finding someone who didn't immediately start telling me what I needed to do, right? It was someone who asked me questions about my experience, about the company I was joining, about Where my concerns were, where my strengths were, what I wanted to accomplish, what were my initial feelings in the role. It was a getting-to-know-you process versus a let me tell you how you're going to do this. But that's what resonated with me. And there are a lot of people I talked to, I'm an expert at this, I can help you do this, I'll do X, Y, and Z. And I felt that just didn't resonate with me. What I felt was someone who was going to Understand me personally and understand my scenario and my situation and how I was coming about it, ask a lot of questions, and then slowly start to relate other experiences they had from an advisor— they delivered from an advisory perspective to see if we could gain a level of comfort and trust. You're effectively making a new friend and you're committing to this person for a long time. And as the CEO of a company, You're interviewing someone who you're going to share more with than anyone you work with or that works for you or that you work for at a board level. This is the person you have to feel safe and trusted with above all else. And there's risk in that too. It was first about finding someone who I felt cared about me, understood fit, low ego, and was there to help. And so that was the framework with which I approached the process of understanding advisory services.

No, I love your process because it's not just a science, but it's also that chemistry. You need to feel it because it's about building a friendship, a professional friendship, but that will matter a lot. That resonates with me. Having someone who asks questions, who gets to know you, who understands what your challenges are. So then when they share stories and what they learned from their experiences advising other people, it's Relevant to your situation. It's not just, hey, here's what you need to do. So that really resonates.

The best way advisory firms work is you may speak to someone at the firm. You and I might have a conversation about me being a CEO. You may be the sales lead trying to bring advisory services, but you might recognize in me that, you know what, Andrew's style might work for a different person at our firm, right? So it may not be the first person you talk to at a firm. That is ultimately who becomes your partner. And I think the good advisories understand that they have a, a bench of extremely talented folks, but they need to find you the best person, not just them because they're the one who was introduced to you first.

Yeah.

Or they might say, you know what, I would really like to work with you and I think we can do this, but I also want you to talk to another person and see how you feel that chemistry is or that fit is because it is a human element and deeply personal. And the good advisory firms drop their ego about being the sales lead on something, and they raise their game by finding you the best fit for you that will work with you.

Yes. You make me think about a big part of my job as a coaching practice director beyond being the CEO. The discovery process is critical. It's understanding, you know, the coachee and what would work for them on paper. And then you might have 3 to 4 people that Could be a good fit in terms of coaches, but then you need to have chemistry calls. And you need to make sure that, you know, the coachee picks the coach, the person they're going to work with. I think it's instrumental in the success of a coaching relationship.

Yeah, yeah. Some, some leaders are very analytical, and they're looking for structural help. I needed a sounding board. I needed a place to be insecure. I needed a place to be vulnerable. I needed validation of my process a lot more than I needed, here's a 30-60-90 strategy sheet. But other leaders are different, right? And they might need that, and they're very confident in there. So it's understanding what the person is asking for from a help perspective.

So for our listeners stepping into broader leadership roles that are going beyond one function, it could be CEO, it could be COO, what practical tips would you give them? Maybe for the first 90 days.

Yeah, certainly. So the first thing is trust the fact that you have been installed in this role because those around you believe you are capable and will further the business. They wouldn't have hired you if they didn't. You didn't luck into this role. You didn't fall into this role. Intelligent people whose own livelihoods depend on your success believe in you. So first, know that. Second, be immediately comfortable knowing that you don't know much of anything about the world you're about to step into. Be honest and open with your team, with your board, and with everyone around you that you too are going through a learning and evaluation process.

Mm-hmm.

Third, learn With low ego. Go ask questions, and it's fine as a CEO to say, I don't understand why that is or what that is or what you're doing. Please explain to me so I can learn. Right? That's critical. Fourth, don't be a super function of your own job. Don't micromanage the sales function or the finance function because that's where you know best. You're actually wasting everyone's time. If you just try to duplicate or add some minor incrementality to what someone who's already there is doing, it's a complete waste of your time and the company will suffer. Fifth, seek advisory. Find a trusted voice and take time doing that. It will be incredibly critical as you go through this process.

Sixth.

Don't fall victim to everyone's opinions of the company or the people or the customers or everything. Allow yourself to make your own opinions and give yourself the time to evaluate yourself. And lastly, however lonely it may be, believe in yourself. If you get decisions right 70% of the time as a CEO, you're probably the best CEO there is. And if you know that, that's really gonna help you. And even after all of that, even if you do all of those things perfectly, it still will be lonely. You're still never certain. You still might have to bring in new folks or understand that a customer relationship isn't working and you need to fire a customer or change the focus of the company or do something else. But believe in yourself because if you go through a process you trust and you do the things where you gave yourself the best chance to succeed and you looked in the mirror and you said, I believe in how I'm gonna approach this, that's all you can do. So that's my general 90-day advice on what that looks like.

Wow. I wish I had that list 11 years ago. And because the doubts and all of the things you go through, I'm really taking away the kind of the believe in yourself, believe in the people that put you in that seat, because there's a reason for that. But yes, such a rich list. Maybe one thing that is implicit, but I would add or build on is beyond the advisory support, I think build a support system. Like your family, your partner, because this is such an intense adventure for everybody involved that having the support at home is also critical. And that's—

100%. I'm blessed to have a spouse who is an extremely successful professional in her own regard, who was supportive and patient from the extra time I was putting in. You need to shore up what's at home. And I think maybe I took that for granted. But when I'm listening to you say that, not everyone has that, you know, kind of partnership or that kind of support at a personal level, but it's critical. So, yeah. One other thing I would say is find other leaders in, obviously, not a competitive space, but something analogous to what you're doing. Go have conversations about their struggles, et cetera. There's, there's paid advisory, but there's also peer advisory.

Peer advisory.

That was really helpful to me in terms of people that you could trust and work with.

Yes. Andrew, thank you so much for joining me today and for sharing such a thoughtful, honest perspective on the CEO transition.

Yeah, it was a privilege, a pleasure. Obviously, you know my appreciation for the work that you and your team do and for what it meant to me. So it's an honor to be here. And so thank you, Marie.

I appreciate that. Leadership can be energizing. We all felt that energy, but it can also be lonely. Everything you shared, I think it's really helping those new leaders to build the right system around them. You can learn more about Produce International and our work with leaders and organizations at proteus-international.com. Thank you all for tuning in. And until next time, here's to creating the enterprise leadership you truly want. Thanks again, Andrew. See you soon. Bye-bye.

Thank you, Marie.

Thanks for listening to the Proteus Leader Show. We hope you're leaving with ideas you can put to use on your team, in your organization, or in your own career. To learn more about how we support true transformation through change consulting, leadership development, and executive coaching, visit us at Proteus-International.com. Until next time.