Fernanda Torres | When Doctors Say, "We Don't Know" Podcast | Episode 209

Welcome to the show. My name is Eva Vennari, founder of the Elevate Institute, and I'll be your host for today's podcast, When Doctors Say We Don't Know. It's an inclusive conversation. So many are craving to share their stories and experiences. Today's guest is no exception. Today's honored guest is Fernanda Torres. She is an advanced practice registered nurse and experienced as a patient, seeing that we don't always know the connection that our thoughts and emotions have in health in general. She's here today to speak to her experience with depression and anxiety. Fernanda, welcome to the show.

Eva, thank you so much for the invite. It's my pleasure being here with you all today and sharing a little bit of what I know and have experienced as a provider and as a patient with you and the audience.

Oh my gosh. And as we were speaking before in our, in our conversation, there is so much to talk about because we want to put all of our pressure and expectations on the medical community to know everything that's going on with us. But there's— there are some things that we need to know as patients walking into a situation with a doctor, or even in your case, an advanced practice nurse, you know, practice registered nurse. Let me get that right. It's not a whole lot. There are some things, and I really want to unravel this conversation because I was so excited to have you on the show and learn more about it. So give, give us an idea for you. What is it like when, um, on both sides— and this is a two-sided question— have you ever been in the case where you've had to answer, we don't, we don't know? And have you received that answer for yourself?

Yes, yes, Eva, absolutely. Actually, both cases. So as a medical provider, I have found when that when we go to school and when we're getting our education in the traditional system right now, and I went the nursing route and I then got my bachelor's degree and then I went for my master's degree and I'm currently working on getting my doctorate degree in nursing. And also for those that have gone the medical route, so medical school, what I have found is that we are trained on finding diseases, we're trained on seeing people as a system, right? So what's going on the endocrine system or the cardiovascular system, or the nervous system, and then we are treating symptoms and we're treating systems. And that's how we're trained, right? However, what I have come to understand more and more based on my personal experience, and I will get to that a little bit more, is that If we're going to help someone reach a level of wellness, a level of health, and actually get better, then we can't see someone as a piece of a system, but as a whole. We are whole human beings, and when we're seeking care and when we're seeking to feel better in our health, then we have to be taken as a whole person and not as a system. Otherwise, we're literally just treating symptoms but not treating the person. And that, I think, has been the major disconnect that I found from what I got in school, what I actually got trained on and how I got trained on, and what I have come to find in my personal experience as well. So now looking at it from the other perspective, and everything kind of started for me when I was going through a very, very severe bout of depression and anxiety, and I started seeking help. in the medical community, and I, with my colleagues and friends and, you know, people that I would consider very, very highly trained on everything that they were doing. However, they were not necessarily seeing me for as a whole person. They were treating me for my symptoms. So they were treating my anxiety, they were treating my depression, but they were not helping me feel better as a whole. So I was taking medications. It got to a point where I was taking like 2 medications for my symptoms for anxiety and depression, and then I was taking one medication to counteract the side effects that the other 2 medications were giving me.

Oh boy.

And what I found is that I'm not getting better, right? I'm not feeling better. It's not getting better at all. So why am I not feeling better if I'm doing what I'm told? I was going to counseling. I was going to therapy. I was doing all of those things, and I'm not feeling better. And what I came to find out is that the key, a lot of it, and the major key is on us. It's on our thoughts and our emotions. And many times our thoughts and emotions are what gets us sick in the first place. And if we as providers are not looking at that as the main cause, as the root cause, then we're not necessarily accomplishing or helping people reach a level of wellness.

So you're doing all of the things— this really is, I heard this loud and clear— you're doing all of the things that you're told to do. This is what medicine as we know it, not just in the medical world of white lab coats, right, but also those who sit there across from the couch with their pen and paper. And how does that make you feel like both aspects of the mental health community and the medical community are both saying, these are the things that you should do. These are the things that we know help you get better, but you weren't getting better.

Exactly, exactly. And I was doing everything that I was told because I wanted to get better, right? I was, I was in a very down, deep state of depression and anxiety every single day from the moment I would wake up in bed, from the moment I would wait you know, go down and try to sleep and actually not being able to sleep because of those same anxiety, just, you know, doing, doing its thing every single night. So I was doing everything that I was being told. And I was actually doing everything that I was telling other patients to do, because at this point, I was already a provider.

Right.

And I'm thinking, well, how are my patients then coping with it, if they're literally following the same advice that I'm following, and I'm not getting better? So how can I expect my patients to actually do feel better?

And that's an excellent question. And I love questions like that because they always lead to great insight. So what did you find?

What I found is that a lot of it is actually our thoughts. So when we have a thought, and we have thoughts day in and day out, they never stop. We have thoughts from the moment we wake up in bed to the moment we literally go to sleep. We have about 40,000-50,000 thoughts every single day. And every single thought that we have literally has an attached emotion to it, whether it's a good thought with a positive emotion or a negative thought with a negative emotion. And a lot of it is that the sum total of those thoughts and emotions over time, repeated thoughts and emotions, positive or negative, eventually, of course, if they're negative, lead up to disease. So a lot of the conditions that we're seeing today, conditions like depression, conditions like hypertension, conditions like cancers, conditions like depression, And anxiety many, many, many times start with the thoughts that were happening in our head, and then those thoughts over and over and over again repeatedly have an emotional reaction. And these emotional reactions are sending a signal to our bodies, and then these signals to our bodies have hormones that the body starts kind of acting upon. And some of these hormones are hormone stresses, stress hormones like cortisol. So if I'm always stressed out because of work, because of my kids, because of a coffee stain in my shirt, because of traffic, then I'm sending these stress emotions and hormones to my body over and over and over again. And nobody can literally feel this way, or, you know, for a period of time and be healthy. It's impossible.

So it sounds to me that like, like the prescription of what it is, and I don't just mean by a drug, but I mean everything that you've been trained in your training and all the training of those who are helping you It wouldn't— it was being counter-seated, is that the right word? It was being, it was being, you know, counteracted by the thoughts that were being judged as they crossed the brain of what emotion then turned into and then created this ongoing environmental issue in the body that then slows down and becomes illness of some kind.

Absolutely. So if you take a medication, and I'm not saying— of course, I still do it as a provider, I still prescribe medications. And I think in many aspects, medications help us feel better. And they also help us get controlled in some aspects, correct?

Yeah.

However, if we don't go to the primary cause of the problem, then we're not going to see any permanent change.

Right. If we don't—

if we're not willing to treat the root cause of what's getting us sick, then all we can do is just take medications that is going— that they're going to hopefully keep us controlled, but they're not going to solve the problem. So that's why many times when we go to see our providers, our doctor, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, we get comments like, diabetes is not curable. Diabetes is treatable. It's certainly something that we can treat, but we can't cure. And they're not wrong in that sense, because if we're seeing medicine from that standpoint, then of course, a doctor is not going to be able to cure the way that you think and the way that you feel. So they can only treat it with medications. Many times, that's why when we go to look at— see our providers for care, we get comments like diabetes and blood pressure problems and even many, many other conditions are not curable, even a lot of autoimmune conditions. And the reason why is because you can't cure something if you're not treating something from the root. And that is common sense. So if we really, as patients, if we want to take accountability and we want to get to actually feel better, if we want to actually get to the bottom of the problem, get to the root of the problem, so we can eradicate the problem from, from the root, and we can actually eradicate so many diseases that are overcoming and are becoming pandemics nowadays, then we have to be able to look at the cause of the problem and realize that many, many, many of these conditions— autoimmune conditions, diabetes, a lot of cancers, and many, many other things in our health that are affecting us today— are starting actually in our minds, in our thoughts, and with our emotions.

It's— I find the same thing to be true. I think you're so right about that, is the emotional state of our body, it sets off a set of chemical responses, right? And so those chemicals, yes, and it's not just the cortisol release, but there are other things, and even joy experiencing the change. So tell us more about like what emotions, whether they're positive in nature or negative in nature, however we judge it, those, those can be just as stressful, can't they?

Absolutely. So let me share with you something really interesting that I have found since I started looking and going down this road, is that there was a study done in 2001 by HeartMath. And the study— I'm not going to go into the name or anything unless you want me to— but the study was literally 28 different human DNA placenta samples that were given to experimenters. And these people had been trained on feeling different emotions. And what they found was that when the researchers were finding— were feeling happy and joy and calmness and bliss, the DNA would relax and elongate. But when the researchers were angry or upset or frustrated or jealous or feeling any negative emotion, then the DNA would contract and it would turn off. And my thing is, and the major thing that I took from that study when I read it, is that that is not That wasn't their DNA, and it wasn't even inside of their bodies, yet the DNA was reacting to these emotions. So what do you think is happening every single time we feel a happy or a positive emotion or a negative emotion in our bodies? We're sending these signals over and over again to our DNA, and eventually over time the DNA starts— continues to be turned off, and that is the cause of disease.

So expand more on this idea, because I'm thinking I have a limited understanding of DNA, but I, as you know, listening for my audience too, it's like, why does that matter if DNA expands or contracts?

So when the DNA expands, literally what it means is that it's relaxed. So as we feel a positive emotion, and we send that signal to the body, and that's why when we're relaxed, we literally feel like our body's just floating basically because everything's relaxed. And that means that it's sending happy signals to the body, signals of being able to rejuvenate, being able to repair, being able to, to get healthier. And the immune system gets stronger and everything gets basically healthier. However, when we're sending negative emotions over and over again to our bodies, and then the DNA contracts, you can actually feel it in your body too. You feel like your muscles are tight and tense, and you feel like muscle tension around the shoulders. and even headaches and more symptoms, physical symptoms. But what's happening in your DNA is that over time, the DNA starts turning off over and over and over again. And a DNA that it's always turned off, it's unable to repair. And it's not getting any signals of getting healthier. As a matter of fact, it's getting signals of disease. And it's not going to happen over one— over a week or over a month. But if we're putting ourselves in situations that are stressful to us, and we're not managing that stress, then over time, this chronic turning off of the DNA is what ends up being all of these chronic medical conditions that we're seeing today. Basically, most of those conditions that we're seeing today start with the emotions that we're feeling in our bodies.

And what I'm hearing so very clearly here is that you mentioned several things that seem like they're What people ignore on a daily basis as being the beginning signals, the body communicating, saying, hey, there is something going on within you that is off, that's going to create disease. And it's meant to be— correct me if I'm wrong— a signal that says time to make a change. But it's so easy to ignore tense shoulders. It's so easy to ignore a little headache here and there. So easy to ignore, well, I'm tired, but I'm going to go get a coffee. I'm going to go stand in line at Starbucks, you know.

You got it. Starting with the muscle tension situation, we all get stressed and tense in our muscles. And then we're like, oh, we just had a rough day today. Well, it's not a rough day today. It's a rough day every day. A lot of people are having rough days every single day. And it couldn't— it doesn't have to be the entire day. But, you know, if you think about it, if you wake up and you're already running late, and you're struggling to get out of your house, and then you're stuck in traffic, and then you get to work and your coworker looks at you the wrong way. And then you didn't—

Yes.

Eat lunch, and then you're rushing to get home because the kids have homework and they haven't done it. And You know, that's, that's what I'm talking about. It's life.

Yeah.

And we all have to deal with life. But how we're quote unquote dealing with life is basically just keeping, keeping, keep pushing through how we're feeling and just saying, well, what can I do? I mean, it's my life, you know, I have responsibilities. But understanding that living like this over and over and over again over time will, will, and it's not a matter of is, If will cause disease.

Yeah, that's been my experience in my practice too. So I'm really curious now, so when you— you have your own practice, right?

Yes.

This is something that you and I spoke of just briefly when our first conversation about this beforehand is the distinct difference between how much time you can spend with a client or patient versus what a doctor can spend. Because of scheduling. So what typically people may experience less than 10 minutes with their provider?

Yes, yes. So and it goes all, all goes back to what I was explaining at the beginning. You know, when we are trained in school, we're not trained to deal with how people are thinking or how people are feeling or any of that. We are trained to see patients as a system. So what's going on today? Diabetes is bothering you? Oh, it's the glucose elevated, or it's your food getting numb, or— and then we're looking at the food like the food has no connection with anything else in the body, right?

Yes.

Someone who has gastritis, we're not asking what the stress level is, what's making them stressed, what kind of thoughts they're having, how they're sleeping at night. No, you're having gastritis, take some omeprazole. And so Deal again, dealing with these symptoms and taking those medications are some relief in your symptoms. So, and I think a lot of it too, it's the mentality of I don't have time to deal with this, I don't have time to deal with feeling this way, so I would much rather just take a medication and forget about the fact that I even feel bad to begin with. But again, taking a medication, it's never going to get us to feel Completely better, and it's not going to not even help us feel better, but help us deal with the problem from, from the root.

So it sounds like there's possibility here for what I call the two-pronged approach. You have a fire, you need to put it out. I mean, you don't, you don't call in the plumber to fix your pipes when you've got a fire in the house, you know, to, you know, take the hose and try to put it out. This is about calling, calling in the big guns. And, and why not? So I think here's, here's where I think many people get stuck is, no, I've got this medication, this is the end of the story. So for you, when you're talking about emotions and mental, where should a person— when should a person decide, okay, I need to go ahead and take this medication if I want to or not, and then seek further help to correct this and keep it from happening anymore?

I think the major thing, Eva, honestly, and that's the message that I am bringing across, and that's why I go on podcasts, and I have my own podcast, and I do speaking events and everything. It's— I think it's bringing the understanding to people that it starts with us. And if we're not willing to look at us as the cause of the problem, then nothing is going to get solved. And many of us are navigating in life in regards to health in the passenger seat. And we're allowing our doctors or nurses or providers to make the decisions for us. Oh, I got to take this medication. For the rest of my life, oh okay, I will do that. But how can I help myself? What can I do to feel better? See, if I didn't look at it that way, I would still be stuck taking three medications, and I would still not feel better. You know, because diabetes was not going to get cured. Anxiety wasn't going to get cured. And that was the realization. That was the aha moment for me that okay, if I'm going to literally fix this problem and be able to. get rid of depression and anxiety, I need to approach it from a different angle, from a different standpoint. And now, granted, I'm a very critical thinker in that sense, you know, and when I started looking into my thoughts and emotions, I was like, that's BS, honestly, because how, how can I? And then when the more you think about it, and the more you realize that in fact, you do have these thoughts, They never stop, and every thought makes you feel a certain way. Then you start putting two and two together and say, well, when I think these things, my anxiety or my depression gets worse. But then if I switch the thought— and understanding that we have the key to switch the thoughts that we think. Nobody else can do it for us. Your doctor can't switch your thoughts. You know, your, your kids or your spouse cannot switch those thoughts. Those thoughts are in our heads. So understanding that if we switch the thoughts, we switch the emotions, and as we switch the emotions, we start feeling better. It's like, oh, now I get it. Right now I understand that I'm doing a lot of it. And I'm not saying every single thing that happens to us in health specifically, it's our fault, but understanding that most of it is.

Yeah, taking some responsibility for yourself rather than putting it all, like I said in the beginning, all of the pressure on this, on the shoulders of a practitioner. So when somebody comes to you for help, you're spending more time with them and getting more involved in what's going on with their thoughts in addition to their chemistry. Is that right?

Absolutely. So, as I said before, I still treat patients with medications because if you are, if your diabetes is uncontrolled or you have severe pain that you're dealing with or your blood pressure is through the roof, I'm not gonna just tell you, think happy thoughts and expect your blood pressure to drop, right?

No, it's not gonna happen.

It doesn't work that way. However, if we're taking a medication that is going to help us keep that blood pressure under control, while we're looking at the main cause, at the root cause of the problem, and we're constantly working on the root cause of the problem, then little by little, you're gonna see that things start getting better, but not better in the sense of taking a medication and being controlled, but better in the sense of you get healthier, you sleep better, you feel better, you're happier, you're more fulfilled, you're going through life and you're like, okay, I can do these, right? So it's a different sense of wellness. It's a sense of well-being that we're not used to feeling like, unfortunately, and we can all get to that point in our lives.

I agree. As you're preaching on the same soapbox that I like to talk about too. So I understand. Yeah. And I really believe that, that all of that mindset is very important. And it's also about taking care of the physical body. So lovely. And as folks are listening to you, and they're shaking their head, yeah, I agree with that. I really want to know more. How best can they reach out to you and connect with you, Fernanda?

Yes, thank you for asking, Eva. I have a website. My website is www. Positiveblueprints.com. And then I also have a free ebook that can help navigate a little bit of these thoughts and emotions and everything that I'm talking about today. And that book can be downloaded at fernandacastaneda.com. And that is F-E-R-N-A-N-D-A-C-A-S-T-A-N-E-D-A.com. And then of course, I'm in Facebook and Instagram, and you guys can find me at positiveblueprints.com, which is the name of my podcast.

Beautiful. And we're going to have all of that information on the show notes just in case you're scrambling to find a pen and paper. Just, we'll have it there for you on the page where this podcast is. So thank you so much for sharing. And one final, one final question. And this is just to repeat because you've said it over and over again, but I think it's so important to say one more time. What do you feel is the most important thing to remember when searching for answers?

The most important thing to always keep in mind is that it is and it starts with us. So we're no longer thinking in— and honestly, there is no way that we can continue to think that we are our past medical history or that we are our family history that we're doomed to have diabetes because somebody else had it. They had it because their thoughts and their emotions led up to that. But if you change your thoughts today— and I— it happened to me. I dealt with anxiety and depression for years and years and years and years in a very bad shape. And the minute that I started turning inward and realizing that it was me, that it started with me, that it was my thoughts, that it was my emotions, that it was the way that my mind was going, and that I had no really— before I had no control over my mind, and my mind was causing chaos in me and my body. That's when things started to change for me. And understanding that the minute that you change your thoughts, just like that experiment with the DNA, the minute that you change your thoughts, you're immediately, immediately sending a different signal to your body, to your biology, to your cells, to your DNA. So if we— no matter where you are today, no matter how sick you are, no matter how many medications you're taking, no matter how much in pain you are, or how horrible you may feel, understand that if you start changing your thoughts and changing your emotions, you're going to start sending a different signal to your body. And eventually, over time— of course, it takes time because it took time to get to this point. But over time, if you continue doing that and overcoming your thoughts every single day, you will get to a point of wellness because you are getting to the root of the problem. And unless you do that, you will never be able to find a full sense of relief. All you're doing is basically putting a bandaid on your problems.

I love it. Becoming the driver in your own health story.

100%. Yes.

Yes. Well, thank you so much. I think that's a wonderful message of hope. I appreciate your time and being our guest today.

Thank you so much, Eva. It's been such a pleasure talking to you and spreading this message and Hopefully continuing to transform more and more lives with a message of wellness and understanding that it is within us.

Beautiful. That, that is why we're here. I was like, how come nobody's got a podcast about how doctors say all the time, we don't know? Because we needed to do it. So here we are.

There we go. That's amazing that you took that, that opportunity and you're spreading this message because We don't know what we don't know. Doctors don't know what we don't know. Nurse practitioners don't know what we don't know. And of course, patients don't know what we don't know.

Yep, I agree. And if we can share and make this an open conversation rather than pointing fingers, that's when it becomes powerful.

Yes, absolutely.

Beautiful. Well, that's all that we have for today. Our time is up. And I wanted to say thank you to all of you listening, for listening in with Fernanda Torres and myself on When Doctors Say We Don't Know. This has been another engaging conversation. And I'm hopeful that those of you listening will hear that message of hope so you too can turn your experience of pain into triumph. If you're driving and simply can't click on the links to the show notes right now, because we had some wonderful gifts today, remember you can always hop on to theelevateinstitute.com and follow the podcast links for today's show. And there's so much more to talk about. Tune in next week for another new episode of When Doctors Say We Don't Know. This is Eva Vennari reminding you to question everything.