Eternal Perspective - Men of Messiah 6.15.22

Can have the experience of entering into fellowship with you, into an eternal experience with you in relationship by simply believing in him for the free gift of eternal life. And that includes our illustrious president who is residing in the valley right now at this moment, who is still under your sovereignty. You take the minds, the plans, the devices, the schemes of the king's and.

You work them according to your own will.

They are never, ever escaping. Your sovereign, we love you. We thank you for being our heavenly Father. We so desperately want this hour to glorify and honor you, to bring recognition to your son. And that Rich and I will do our best to represent with clarity, with humility, with conciseness, the truth that you've given to us in your way. We love you. Happy Father's Day. In Christ's name, amen.

You know, Chuck, I was out pondering the full moon last night, Gorgeous desert evening as we want to have out here, right? And I was just overwhelmed with the. With this thought after listening to you on Friday morning at the Bible study for Mount Messiah. And that is that I'm so grateful that this is a free gift. Because if it wasn't a free gift.

If there was any kind of qualifications necessary, if any works were required, you know, I'd be out of life.

Not only you, every human being that's ever lived on this planet would be out of luck. To put it in the phraseology you just used.

This Rich.

Begs the question of what type of sacrifice did our creator require in order to satisfy his justice for the rebelliousness of man in the original sin of Adam and Eve.

He required a perfect, flawless sacrifice. And that means that none of us, no human being, could ever measure up to in his life. His motive. We're talking about motives too, not just good works. A lot of us do good works for bad motives. But a perfect, motivated lifestyle that is sinless than righteousness. And his son is the only one. And he sent his son to accomplish this for us so that he might give us eternal life as a free gift.

Anytime you combine rich works, obedience, man's efforts into a presentation of the answer to the question, what must I do to be saved? Or what must I do to get eternal life? You are, in biblical terms, anathema, accursed. God frowns on that. Significantly.

Well, we see it all the time, don't we? We see it all the time. I've done this, I've done that. A lot of people will say, well, I'm a nice person. And they may be, but they're not.

A perfectly nice person.

You'll hear from people when you approach them about this free gift.

They'll say, well.

I'm a nice person. All roads lead to the same end. So. So I think I'll be judged as being a nice person.

But the standard is sinless perfectionism in order to appease God's holiness and justice. And no man could do that. That's why God so loved the world, saved man in his condition. The dilemma was man could not get out of this on his own. How am I going to salvage my creation that I love so desperately? Guys like Rich and Chuck? How am I going to salvage? Well, I've got to satisfy my justice and holiness. I can't. I can't transgress that part of me. I've got to give a sacrifice, a blood sacrifice for that judicial requirement. And it was an incredible event over 2000 years ago that took place on this planet, in Israel, on this planet. The place where Jesus the Nazarene, the Christ gave his life is still there.

Today, standing right there to this very day. The ground is still there. Let's talk a little bit about Chuck, what it means to be a biblicist.

You say that.

I hear you say that a lot.

Tell us about what that actually means.

Well.

I had some in this regard, a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses. They regularly come to my door, as they may yours. And I try to treat them graciously, but with the understanding as the backdrop that the theology is very, very distorted and tainted in my opinion. And they asked me, well, you seem to be learned, because I can discourse with them and I can point to texts and I'll bring out my Greek text and say, wait a minute.

But anyway, they asked me, what are you, Protestant? I said, I'm a biblicist. I'm a Bible believing Christian. I'm a biblicist. A Biblicist, as I would define it myself, as a person who seeks to mold their personal life after the precepts and the principles taught by the Bible in its entirety without attempting to read back into those biblical principles and precepts, a preconceived theology. In other words, I let the Bible speak for itself. I take it literally. Even though the figurative language is figurative language. I take the figurative language and the metaphors literally. I take the Bible literally. And I believe and accept the ancient scriptures, the Judeo Christian scriptures as my final authority regarding all manners of life upon which it bears. And there's very few issues in life that it doesn't have something to Say significantly about. So that's kind of a technical, expanded definition of a Biblicist.

And that's, you know, it's not parsing words. It's, you know, not for me. No, it's a.

That's my heart and soul.

So you're not a Presbyterian or a Baptist or this or that. I mean, you know, it's not a matter of. A Biblicist is not a matter of.

Let me tell you what I am.

Not a matter of a denomination.

I'm a Biblicist disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So as a Biblicist, I.

Am empowered with the truth to follow Christ as the love of my life, as the captain of my faith, as the one that I have decided to follow and serve exclusively in this life. He has my sole allegiance. But I'm a biblical disciple. In other words, the will of God, the marching orders, what it means to be disciple, what he wants and expects of a disciple is all articulated for me in the scriptures. I'm a biblicist disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not a Baptist, Presbyterian, Charismatic, Pentecostal.

Wacko job or whatever. And if there's someone out there who's listening today for the first time and.

They'Re searching, they're trying to find a.

Church, maybe they're looking for a church.

What, you know, what should they look for? What questions should they ask of a standing pastor and should, you know, you know, you know, we want. I mean, I think people have a need to.

Not just socialize but to sit in congregation, let's say. And so what questions should they ask a pastor so that they would have an understanding that this would be a Bible belief?

It's a clear question, Rich, but it's a tough one for me to answer.

Because.

Each individual possesses a different level of genuine desire to get the most important questions of life answered.

So, you know, some people are going to try harder. They're going to seek more diligently to find truth and.

Get their questions. The most viable center questions of all of life. The core questions like to answer as a biblicist and as a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would have to answer that question this way. Minimasiah Ministry and we do have a website, by the way, @minimasiah.com or.org and we also meet on Friday mornings at 7am at Desert Island Country Club on.

For any of the men that like to attend and participate with us in search of the scriptures, I would say that the creed of our Christian faith Authored by Mennon Messiah Ministry primarily. My document.

Expounds in quite a bit of detail the doctrinal underpinnings of what it means to be a biblicist disciple or what a person should know in seeking out a group.

A congregation, a fellowship to pursue in satisfying their religious interests or answering these questions. And you can pull this creed of faith up on our website, it's in PDF format or there's a contact tab there if you'd like to contact me. I'll send you as many copies free. All of our documents are free of charge and you can take a look.

At.

One of the obligations. Richard we have as pastors and teachers, as leaders, head pastor, whatever you want, lead pastor, whatever you want to call yourself so called churches is we have a responsibility to have something clearly in writing.

That we can put into the hands of people that walk through our doors, who come through our church.

That will inform them.

Exactly what we believe, our belief system, our creed of faith. And I'm not talking about some generic sentence with regard to a statement. I'm talking about a detailed explanation that.

The person who receives it can read and understand. This is what Chuck Devoe believes. This is what minimum we have an obligation, I think just out of respect for a fellow man to produce this product. Honesty, integrity. Now they may not agree with it, they may not understand it and that would beckon further dialogue. But Rich, we have that responsibility. So I would encourage anybody that's listening that's interested in what men of Messiah believes in terms of the full orbed counsel of God and the doctrines of scripture as a bilibilist disciple to pull up the creed of faith, to read it thoroughly. If you have any questions, you can contact me, I'll be glad to chat with you or email with you and or I'll send you free booklets.

Well, let's talk a little bit about where the rubber meets the road on issues like that. For example, from a biblical perspective, what things in this world and earthly life that we're living right now have true eternal value?

That's a great question. From a biblical perspective, Rich is asking me what things in this world or earthly life, this temporal life and experience have true eternal value?

Let me answer that question by suggesting three particulars.

Okay.

First, again from a biblical perspective, from a scriptural perspective, as a biblicist disciple of Jesus Christ, we know that the Godhead is eternal. And by the Godhead we're talking about the doctrine of the Trinity, God the Father, who we're honoring today as our Father, God the Son in the person of Yeshua Hamashiach, Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ and the Holy Spirit.

So God, let's put it this way. Man's Creator is eternal. He's always been, always will be. He is eternal. Second.

Category.

That I would assign eternality to are all angels and human beings.

Now, the Bible leaves the door open for me, Rich, that there are other beings that God created which he refers to in some cases, I think distinct from angels as dominions, principalities, powers, that sort of thing. We don't know beyond angels and human beings what exists as a result of our Creator's creative hand. But we know angels, Angeloi and Anthropoi min. Human beings exist.

By the creative hand of God and are eternal. So angels are going to live forever. Angelic beings, both fallen, good and bad human beings will live and exist forever, whether it's in the presence of Christ, in His kingdom, or outside the new heavens and the new earth, in a place called the Second Death of the Lake, which brings up fire and brimstone.

You don't want to be there.

That's what we don't want to be there. We don't get up on that tangent. God is eternal people and angels. And then secondly, he says the word of God is eternal. Now here I'm suggesting that we should understand the word of God not as the living Word, Christ himself, but the expression of him as the way, truth and the life in the precepts and principles that we have written for us in Scripture. In other words, all truth rich that is manifested to us in principal precept form in the Scripture is eternal.

Those are the three primary categories that.

I would say, well, it seems like are eternal. Chuck, when you're talking to people.

Let.

Me say one thing before you go out. In other words, let's put all those three together. We got God, angels, human beings, and the Word of God. When there's a synergism, a working together of those three eternal, for lack of a better term, elements or variables, you have eternity at work, God working with human beings on the basis of his truth and all the truth that relates to both time as well as the eternal future. Okay, so you've got not just a static.

Presentation of eternal components, but you've got a dynamical working God the Father working with his creation on the basis of eternal truth. All right, go ahead.

Well, the question is, when this is presented to someone, you present it to, to a person, right? And you say, you know you're going to live forever, whether you like it or not.

And so you're going to be either.

Not in this present body, but.

Right, but you know, there's going to be. There is eternal life.

There is eternal life and you know, and eternal existence.

You're gonna, if you accept this gift, you're going to be over here. If you turn your back on a free gift, you're going to wind up in this, in this eternal lake of fire. Is that what you're saying?

That's what I'm saying. Let's look at the text. I alluded to it last week and I wrote a booklet on it. Is your name written in the book of life? But I was looking at it this morning, Rich, while you were messing around trying to get things going. That I think keys in relation to your question, it's found in Revelation chapter 20. Why don't you turn in your Bible there and let's look at from verse 11 on and then probe this a little bit together.

God is eternal. Angels and people are eternal. Revelation 20 beginning with verse 11 and the word of God, the principles, precepts, the truth of God's word is eternal. And that includes this passage.

This is.

Set in the context.

Of presenting a judgment that comes right after the nuclear war that will take place.

Between Satan and Jesus Christ at the end of the thousand year reign of our Lord.

That's when the elements disappear or burn down.

That's right after the thousand year reign of our Lord.

Because in verse 7 he says now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison. He goes out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth. Gog. And to gather them together to battle whose number is as the sand of the sea. We were talking about this the other day. So he's released one final time at the end of the thousand year incarceration that he's been experiencing in the Habasu in the center of the earth. And he fights against Christ. Okay, the war is over. Guess who wins again?

Our Lord.

Okay, then verse 11. I saw a great white throne and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. Man, that's a tremendous picture of power. The heaven and earth fled away from whose face? I mean this is just his presence, Rich.

And there was found no place for them, for the heaven and the earth, the present one. And I saw the dead. This is the vision of the judgment. Small and great.

Isn't that an amazing scene?

Small and great. In other words, the dead that are being raised are exemplifying they're reflecting smallness or greatness and a whole variety of.

Attributes that would distinguish them in terms of their earthly life. So for example, we honor greatness in this life.

Well, the president of the United States is only a few miles from us right now.

We have Air Force One. Just.

We went and looked at it. This is great. You know, a small part would be the poor derelict laying in the street in Coachella with a bottle of wine next to it. Okay, so you got the small and the great.

And.

And they're all going to be at the same place.

They're standing before God. And books were open, plural, and another book was open, which is the book of life. So you got this whole. You got the stack of books. Books are open, a lot of books. And you got this one that stands alone, and it's called the Book of Life. Now notice. And the dead were judged according to their works by the things which were written in the books. So the books on the one side of the judges bench.

Are a recording of all the works, the motives, the deeds of every human being that's ever lived that is accountable for their life. Okay, I don't want to read that. Wait a second. No, you're not in that book. Okay, hold on, Rich. It gets better. But that's the truth. This is the word of God. It's eternal. Okay? And God's got an accurate accounting. An accurate accounting, rich, of every deed that every human being has engaged in.

Every lie and the motives, every theft, every motive.

Okay? So here I am standing before the judge of all the earth. My life is examined.

Yes.

And I want to try to make an argument.

You're at the judge's throne because it's.

A fair and impartial hearing. There's no. We have no advocates there. Because, I mean, the people are standing there whose names are not written in the book of life. These are the people that are standing there. They want a fair judgment. And he's going to give that to them. And so he says they were judged according to their works. Now notice in verse 14, then death and Hades were cast in the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written what in the Book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Okay, let me capture this once again. We've got all these books.

What are those books?

Parchment. You know, I mean, probably, you know, since our Lord's mind is better than any mega computer.

Yes.

I mean, but if you want proof, he's going to be able to pull up and say on this day, in this time. You did this based upon this motive. I mean, this is how emphatically omniscient he is and wise. But we need a practical picture of how this is going to transpire. So John is told there are books. And in this book are recorded all the works, the motives of every human being that stand in this judgment, which is called the Great White Joget judgment. And they are judged according to their works. Well, their works, no matter how good. Remember they are great and small. Some people did better than others, no matter how good, were not good enough to get their name written in the book of life.

Because if their name was in the book of life, they would be standing in this judgment.

So how do you get your name in the book of Life?

Right, we'll paint the picture a little bit. There will be severe disappointment from a lot of people.

Well, I think these are human beings.

Unbelievably sad.

Absolutely.

Can I do. Is there something else I can do? I mean. Okay, I see what you're saying, you know. You know, I mean, it's going to be an amazing moment for every human being at that Great White.

Predicated upon the fact that people are eternal. This is an existence, a moment in their eternal existence that is unequivocally the purest form of judgment they've ever seen and experienced. And there's no way out. There's no rationalization, because the one who is sitting on the Great White Throne is the one before whose face the heavens and the earth fled the Lord Jesus Christ in his glorified state. I think we whose names are written in the book of life and our names are in the book of life because we simply believed in him for the free gift of eternal life. Whoever has the Son has life. Whoever does have the Son does not have life. We're going to be spectators of this judgment. We'll be in our glorified immortal resurrected bodies which are promised to us. Philippians 3:20 and 21, 1st Corinthians 15. And we are going to see this judgment. We're talking about billions of people. Now how is one person going to adjudicate such an accurate, precise, honest, authenticity judgment with all these things? Well, that's what sets him apart from you and me. Now where this judgment is going to take place, he doesn't say. But we know it's at the end of the thousand year reign of our Lord. We know it is after he has defeated Satan once and for all and cast Satan into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

The second death.

The second death. So, you know, this is.

This is what we know from Scripture. But you know where this judgment is going to take place and in fact, putting together a study on the biblical doctrine of hell for the fall. I don't know specific, I can speculate, but I don't know specifically where this lake, which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death, is going to be spatially. I have some conjecture on that, but this is the domain. This is the eternal domain of all people who do not have their names written in the Book of life. The point is this. If you're listening and you don't have eternal life, your name is not written in the Book of Life. I don't care how good you think your life is, as long as you've got life and breath. You can get your name inscribed in this. And once it's inscribed in the book, it's in it forever. How do I get my name in there? By believing in Jesus as the Christ who guarantees your eternal destiny by believing in him and faith alone.

You know, people listen to the radio all the time. In fact, there's a lot of people in our community that have every radio station in town on speed dial just in case there's a contest, you know, so they can win. They can win two tickets to, you know, see a concert or go to a pool party or whatever this show. We give you a free gift. You don't even have to call us for this free gift or go forward.

Or raise your hand.

You don't have to raise your hand.

Or repent of your life.

You don't have to. You don't, you know, sad. Not sad to say, but the truth be told, you don't have to be baptized. You don't have to. You don't have to stand.

Let me ask you a question.

Ask me a question.

You respond the question to me. Gil Gallon.

Yes.

Why are the people, the human beings who are standing in the Great White Throne Judgment going to spend eternity in a place called the Lake of Fire? Why, according to this text?

Look at it.

Give me an answer. What is the reason they're going to spend eternity in this place which is outside the Princess? It's a very simple reason.

They're not in the book.

Not because of their sin, not because they're not forgiven, not because they haven't, but because their name is not in the Book of Life. So that's the question. How do you get your name in this book? This is God's book.

Just say please. Put my name in that book.

I accept your free gift, like living water. I drink it once and I become yours. And he inscribes your name. Now, how can it be so simple and so free? We go over this over and over again.

Well, this is where the rubber meets the road in the world. This is the, this is the stumbling block right here. This is the, this is where people kick against the goats. These are the goats. It's a simple thing. It is a free gift. He's there. He, in fact, not only is it a free gift, he's not. He's standing by your door and knocking on the door, is he not? He wants you.

Don'T use that pass.

All right, all right.

Well, that's, that's why you're here.

Revolutionary. But it's not what I want to use the origin.

But you know, it's there, it's available and it can happen. Right now, it doesn't happen. You don't have to wait a month.

Let's stay with the Gospel of John, or let's stay with. Even in this book, since we're in the book of Revelation, which John wrote, by the way, as a human agent, we go to the last invitation to come to faith in Christ. For eternal life is given in this book. In verse 17, he says, in the spirit and the brethren, that's us, by the way. This is what we're saying. We're saying, come and let him who hears say, come and let him who thirsts, come, whoever desires, let him take the water of life without cost, without what? Freely.

Amazing.

You don't have to do anything. God doesn't need to be impressed. He was impressed with what his son did that impressed him to pay this price, Rich, the two flakes like you.

What we hear often, what we hear often is from the pulpit. We will hear something that goes like this. You know, it's a free gift, but.

You got to turn from your old ways.

But you know, if I don't see, if I don't see change in you, then I question whether or not you've actually received that free gift. Is it the proper role of a pastor to question that is my question to you.

Well, it's not the proper role of any man and I think especially a pastor or preacher to distort the word of God. That's just flat, not biblical. I've heard many times over the last years, well intended, sincere guys who are out of their element, by the way, who are outside their hot house or wheelhouse or whatever you want to call it telling people they've got to ask for forgiveness, they've got to confess their sins, they've got to repent, that you've got to stop living that type of lifestyle. I see no commands injunctions of that nature in the Bible. When it comes to receiving eternal life and getting saved from hell, God is requiring one thing, believe in my Son for the gift. Most assuredly I say to you, he who believes in me has everlasting life. So pastors or preachers or anybody, evangelists, they're adding and combining provisos, reading into the invitation to get saved, to receive eternal life. Any type of work. Any type of work.

Now.

Let'S make one point is that once you do receive Israel, when you receive this gift, when you ask for this gift and receive this gift of.

Eternal life, you don't need to ask for the gift. Let me make it.

I know, I know, I know.

That's believe in Him. He gives you the gift, you believe in him.

You don't have to ask for the.

Gift, you don't have to ask for.

Say I believe in you.

That's right. I believe in you as the giver of the gift of eternal life, and you receive it by faith.

Would you say this as a general rule or experience in your work over these years?

When someone does change is born again.

There generally is a change in that behavior outside of required, wouldn't you say?

Yeah, I would think so. Again, but to make that without focusing on the change, without making it mandatory or suggesting that it's inevitable that there will be behavioral change after you receive the free gift of eternal life, which involves regeneration and justification. Yes, I think there will be.

Let me use my own life as an example.

Excuse me for using a personal example, but it's real and it's mine. When I first came to faith in Christ for eternal life got justified by faith and faith alone in him, I was 27 years old. Now, I brought 27 years of baggage man, to that moment. But I'll tell you what, I was so excited about having an entering into a relationship with my Creator through His Son. And the little bit of knowledge that I had was just like a blooming flower within my heart. I was really excited. So there were some dramatic changes that took place. But at that moment, I was living with a woman that was not my wife, okay? And I wasn't about to give that up. Okay? I'm born again. I got eternal life. Okay, listen to me. Don't turn red on me. Zaragil Gallon Harrison turned his back on me on this one, you know, But I had no clue that that was not God's will, that that was not morally acceptable and endorsed by him. Well, in a very short period of time.

Through the scripture and through some wisdom granted to me by some godly older brothers, I was confronted with the fact that this is not acceptable. This is not good, this is not healthy. This is sin. And God wants you to move away from this and into a greater experience with him by repenting of this and getting out of it now. And I did. And my life took on some value and some joy that I wasn't having was in this situation. If somebody would have told me, chuck.

You need. Yes, to believe in Jesus Christ for the free gift of eternal life. Yes, it's free, but you got to quit living with this woman. I would have said, right, Take it. I'll see you later. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. Some people say that's a slam on God's face. No, it's not. No, it's not. It's actually honest and real.

It's like telling anybody they've got to alter their lifestyle in order to receive the gift of eternal life, their sexual orientation. You don't have to do that. I'm speaking the truth here. No matter what the Bible says about that orientation. And in my case, I was living in fornication, sexual immorality.

But in other cases, it may be other forms. The issue is, do I believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life? And then once you receive that gift, the process. Remember we talked about the event and the process of growing and developing into a character likeness of Jesus Christ? Happens. You know, people have accused me of being a cheap grace artist, easy believism. You know, a libertine, you know, a liberty. Oh, yeah, you're a libertine. Or antinomian. You're an antinomian. You're against law. No, I'm not. I live under the law of Christ, though, in the New Covenant.

I'm just not willing to play with the altar to in any way distort the simple, beautiful terms of receiving eternal life by suggesting that there should be any type of behavioral change or moral reversal in a person's life in order to receive eternal life and get saved. I know this is going to raise the ire of people. We should open up the lines and.

Let somebody say, well, it's not just Chuck Devoe that's saying that. It's the Apostle Paul.

It's the Bible. And believe me, there are brothers out here in this world, disciples who hold to this free grace theology as I do. And I'm not justifying sin. I mean, there are real consequences to our sin as believers. Rich, we were talking about it earlier.

And doesn't Paul say that, you know, does that mean we should sin freely? And then in the Greek. I'm not a Greek.

Well, no, yeah, I mean, God forbid. In Romans, he argues against antinomianism. I think he encountered some true antinomians, antinomas, which means against the law. And he deals with them in Romans, chapter two.

And he's saying, no, grace is not a license to sin. There are consequences, but one of which, let's say I would have continued to live with this woman for the next year. I would have been living in sin. My eternal life, my name written in the book of life, would have never got it erased. But my fellowship with God, the quality of my life with him, with this person, with others, would have been tarnished, significantly diffused because of living in sin. So I repented pretty quickly, got out of that situation. And I've repented a number of times over my life as a Christian. I've changed my behavior not in order to stay saved or to make sure I receive each other, but in order to have a better life, restore fellowship with God.

That's the difference. We were talking earlier, by the way, for those that are listening about being in the presence of the Lord mission. And I was looking at a passage from Revelation 21. And what I'm about to say really makes the distinction clear in my mind.

With regard to reaping what we sowed as Christians and the impact of a sin dominated life as a Christian in the future. All of us as believers are standing in the presence of the Lord and his kingdom. We are standing on the shores of eternity in our new glorified immortal bodies. And those that the Bible talks about as Christian overcomers, especially from the Book of Revelation, are going to be able to say, unlike those that are not overcoming Christians, victors, conquerors.

Not only am I here, but I own this. This is my inheritance.

And this is another area that you.

The rewards that you are separated.

You're separated from an awful lot of theologists out there that have never brought this at least to my attention.

Right. It's not taught as comprehensively rich as it should be. And I think the Lord, through faithful servants, will pervade the international landscape with these truths. And he's doing so well.

If you'll, if you'll allow me, we were in Revelations 21 there. If I could just Read Revelation.

There's only one revelation. Revelation. Okay, that's right.

21, verse three. I heard a loud voice from the throne. Look, God's dwelling is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people. God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will exist no longer. Grief, crying and pain will exist no longer because the previous things have passed away. Now, that's not something to look forward.

To in the new heaven and the new earth. Here's the picture. You know, we often think of, you know, when we die, are we as Christians, or when our life is over, going to live with God to heaven, Going to heaven. And there's a truth to that. But here we should think more in terms of God coming to live with us.

Now, what if. Perspective.

Want to talk about an eternal perspective? Coming to live with us.

That is a completely different perspective, is it not?

It's huge. For me, it is. And his presence and what he died to pay for means the preclusion of all the pain and suffering and crying and sin. I mean, Jeff's. Look, he's running his arm over there. It hurts. He's going to have a new arm. Yeah, yeah. Because his name is written in the book of life. Because he received the free gift of eternal life through faith in Christ alone.

His tabernacle, God himself, in the person of Jesus Christ is now permanently with men.

As the King.

Well, that's enough to sing songs about, if you ask me, which is why songs are sung about that, because, I mean, what a moment that would be. You know, it's a moment that we can all, all of us look forward.

To in the presence of the King. Absolutely. This is the grand future.

And that's part of that is why Paul struggled a little bit with did he want to live or did he want to die? I mean, there was some part in there where he would say, you know.

Well, for me, to live is Christ, to die is gain. There's the combination of the temporal and the eternal link. I'm living now bearing about my body and my ministry, the life and the pain of Jesus Christ. But if I die, I'm going into his presence. I'm going to be wonderfully adorned, at least in some intermediate body until the resurrection. And I'm going to shed this earthly tent or tabernacle, which is an albatross for me. Yeah, he's, you know, I'd rather be with the Lord. He says, yes, but that's God's call. And it is for you and me. Rich, you've had three heart attacks. You've had three. I mean, you're living, as they say in the world, in a borrowed time.

Well, you know, it's all gravy.

It's all gravy from here. The conservative voice of the desert is gone.

You know, it can happen anymore or.

I can happen to me or Jeff, you know, so this is, that's why these issues that we're raising and that we're, we're entertaining and that we're embracing passionately are issues and questions that man needs to really consider, if nothing else, because of the terminal nature of their life. We're all terminal, man. Physically.

We're all short times.

Physically, yes.

And you can tell that as you turn 60, you begin to feel the aches and pains just part of getting to that point in time.

Absolutely. And I think Paul was saying, you know, man, I've had enough. You know, I'm ready, but I'm willing to stay here and do what's necessary to glorify and honor your Lord and to proclaim your truth to a needy, wanting, hurting population.

The voice you hear is the voice of Chuck Devoe. I'm Rich Gilgalan. You're here listening to Newstalk 920K PSI. This is the eternal perspective brought to you by men of Messiah. And we're honored and thrilled to be here with you today as we continue to talk about the amazing word of God, Chuck the Boat. We talked about from a biblical perspective, what is.

In this world and earthly life have any value in eternity. And you addressed that, you addressed the Godhead, you addressed angels and all human beings being there.

Tell us a little bit more about.

About this angel thing. People say, people, you know, we were brought up being told we had a guardian angel when we were little kids. And you know, where is, where is, as a biblicist, where, where do these angels stand?

Well, in order, in order to do justice to that question, we need, we would need to embrace the whole study of biblical angelology. And it's a fascinating study. I'm not an expert by any means. The little bit of knowledge that I have, I can probably summarize in this sense that these are beings, although carrying some similar characteristics and qualities of human beings, are distinct in their ontology, in their makeup, and that.

They'Re going to exist forever.

They fall on one side or the other of the acceptable moral ledger of God, good or bad, good or evil.

And they are present right now in this room in invisible form right now. And some of them are named Guardian.

In Hebrews 1:14. Is interesting that the Lord Jesus Christ, from his position of sitting at the right hand of his Father right now, sends out angels that are serving him. Let's call them good angels, to minister to those who are going to inherit salvation, not to those who are just saved or possess eternal life, but to those who he is training to be future heirs with him in the kingdom. And I think there is a special protective ministry that the Lord Jesus Christ extends and mediates to his faithful disciples through angelic means that we're not even aware of, protecting us, preserving us, because he honors the loyalty and the fidelity of our hearts and love for him and our uncompromising spirit. So he's going to take care of us. And I think he uses angelic beings in one sense to do that. Ridge.

Well, that's another. This is another thing that people even, it seems to me, because I've had these conversations with people over the years, even people that don't believe in the Bible, have this fascination with angels. It's, you know, it's an interesting dichotomy.

Well, it's a. It's a general fascination with the supernatural. I mean, whether it's. There's nothing new.

There's nothing more supernatural than the gospel. I mean, this is what super. This transcends the supernatural, you know?

This morning I was thinking about the lyrics. I was reciting the lyrics from Helen Howarth Lemo, the Heavenly Vision. She was blind when she wrote these words. Oh, soul, are you weary and tired?

O soul, are you weary and tired? No light in the darkness I see yet there's life for one look at the Savior Life so abundant and free so turn your eyes upon Jesus she's blind physically. Look full in his wonderful face and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace I wish I could see.

My Savior Sung that song a million times, But I didn't realize that she was blind.

She was blind when she wrote that song. So she saw with the eyes of her heart the Savior. That's supernatural. We're all supernaturalists in one sense, whether it's postmodern New Age, Old Eastern mysticism, whether you believe in reincarnation, whatever. If there's a mysticism or a supernatural element to us, to me, it doesn't get any more supernatural and soothing and peaceful and yet intelligent and rational than an experience with Jesus Christ described by those lyrics through the word of God.

And actually, if you're, as I am, an observer of the culture as it relates to. To eternal life. You watch what the culture is watching on television. It's vampires, it's evil spirits, it's. It's, you know, I mean, some of the most bizarre, hokey stuff. Bizarre, hokey, Evil.

A lot of your Christian movies are hokey because they don't understand the.

Real value and artistic substance of the supernatural.

Should we try this?

We're going to try one.

I'm not sure how long it'll last.

All right, you're on the Eternal Perspective with Chuck Devoe and Rich Gilgamlon. Hi, Bob.

That's well said, Bob. We appreciate that very much.

Amen.

Amen.

He is the light.

He is the light out of the.

So far I've agreed with all of our colors.

That's right, our buddy Bob.

Appreciate him. We appreciate him tuning in. I love it.

Wow. And I didn't know you had the lines open. Well, the lines are always open. You know, we have just a few.

Minutes, so one of the things we're gonna. As the Lord, Terry's and wills and the show continues to go on, Rich, is we will open the lines up more and more, but we want to stay on point. We want to stay with what we discussed. In other words, if I'm talking about eternal life, don't ask me to explain the rapture in the book of Leviticus, you know.

Well, explain, Chuck.

Explain the book of Leviticus.

Let's stay with the subject.

Well, you put a lot of work into this, and this has been your whole life, Chuck. You're. You're, you know, you are a biblicist and this is your ministry. And it's just an honor for me just to sit here with you and be able to talk about this stuff and to present it to an audience in a terrestrial radio station along with an amazing website. We've tried in men of Messiah to take advantage of these gifts that God has presented us with, with reaching people. The opportunities.

To make known this free gift have never been greater for one person to be able to go into a camera broadcast all over the world. Didn't you tell us Algerians are tuning into us?

Yeah, we had some hits from Algeria.

Isn't that amazing?

The Berbers.

At least we're touching the Berbers on the.

The privilege, Rich, that we have.

Our Father and his son, our Lord Jesus, don't require much of us. Just a very simple honest humility and openness and a willingness to be schooled and to be taught by him.

And to do it to his honor and glory and that's what this is all about. If it doesn't do that, then it's, it's worthless. It has no eternal value.

Well, listen, give us wrap this up for us this week as far as how you feel.

The things we've talked about, the biblical perspective, the eternal issues that God had wrap up.

Well, as a biblicist and one who molds his life after a biblical principles and precepts and accepts the ancient scriptures as my final authority regarding all the matters of life upon which it bears, I would say this, that if you have even a smidgen or a semblance of interest in eternal matters, life after death, what's in store for you after your physical body expires because your spirit will live forever, then I encourage you again to read the Gospel of John and to embrace the message of the Gospel of John and that it's eternal.

Life, the life of God is to.

Be received freely by faith in Christ.

Well, it doesn't get any better than that, Chuck. That's exactly what we're rooting for here and what we're hoping will happen.

The angels rejoice the angels rejoice, Rejoice.

When we rejoice with the ages with one soul they rejoice every time one soul is saved.

So President Obama come to faith in Yeshua.

Wouldn't that be awesome? Let me just say if you're out there today, if you're out there and.

You'Re curious, we have a Bible study every Friday morning seven to eight at Desert Island Country. Desert Island Country Club. By the way, we're in the ladies locker room.

Yeah, the Lord has a sense of humor.

It's one of the few times you get to be in the inside.

I was walking up with the guy the other day and he started sweating. He says, are we actually going in there? I said, yes, we are. There are no ladies in there though, you know.

No, we're in there. And also I love it.

It's on the earth to do.

It's always important, I think for us when we finish to say, listen.

If you're alone.

And you're wondering.

You know, this includes you. You know, maybe, maybe you always felt like you've been left out of the, of the party.

Maybe you feel like that might work for everybody else, but there's no way it could possibly work for me. I've screwed up too much. You know, maybe you've been divorced three or four times.

Never too late, brother.

You know, there's. It's never too late to accept this free gift from eternal life.

Don't worry. Don't be concerned about correcting your behavior or your attitude. Be concerned and focused on the gift that was paid for by such an enormous, incomprehensible price. Focus on that.

Keep focused on that.

It's what it's about. All about.

Thank you, Chuck. Chuck DeVoe and Rich Gilgalan. Thanks to our good friends at Swingpoint Media TV for helping us broadcast this on the.

The Fugitive.

Yeah, the Fugitive.

With this one wing.

We'll be back next week. God bless you all. Thanks.

I took it right to the top without even realizing.