Measuring What Matters - LinkedIn Ads New Measurement Tools

All right, well, I'll kick it off. So, Joanna and Jay, thanks very much for coming on the LinkedIn ads radio podcast. If you want to start us from the top, can you tell us a little bit about yourselves, where you're based, and your roles at LinkedIn?

Sure. I'll start off. I'm Johanna on our product marketing team at LinkedIn. I'm based out of our South Bay office out of Mountain View.

Hey, guys, I'm Jay O. I'm also based out of the Mountain View office. My product team is currently the ones that in charge of measurement insights and data platform capabilities.

Awesome. Well, good to have both of you guys on the podcast. I was doing some research beforehand and reviewing your own LinkedIn profiles, and I see that you guys have both been there for quite a few years. So I think you guys will have great perspective of seeing both the pre, during and post Covid stages and then pre and post privacy changes that have happened over the last few years. So super excited to have you guys on the podcast today and dive a little bit further into those topics. So to start us off, I want to ask, what recent developments or initiatives in your work are you guys most excited about, particularly in terms of how they're enabling marketers to measure the impact of their efforts more effectively?

Yeah, I'm really excited about the work that we've been doing to help marketers get a little bit closer to actually measuring against revenue. So I think as marketers, we know that where we can make the biggest impact is getting as close as we can to the business metrics that actually drive the business forward. And so for us, that's as B2B marketers, it's revenue and sales. So how do we get closer to our sales counterparts and how do we get closer to the end outcomes, which is revenue? So I'm excited about the work that we've been doing there, both with reporting and also getting the right types of data signals in place to actually help. Make. Help make it possible for our marketers to be able to do that.

Sales is the gold star. The closer, the more that we more tracking we can get around that, the better our campaigns will perform as a whole. So that's awesome to hear.

We recognize that this is like the holy trinity of measurement when it comes to any sophisticated organization. You want real time metrics or campaign metrics that you can rely on that are good indicators for that kind of feature growth. You want the ability to measure for the long, you know, the longitudinal studies that tell you, yeah, this is proving out to be true. Whether it's mmm or some other like methodology. And then, you know, in between those two cycles of the day to day or the short short term versus the long term, you want validation and testing. Can I do a lift test to evaluate? This is true per platform and across platform. So you know the excitement that Joe is telling you about how we're trying to measure closer to revenue, we're trying to make that light up across all of them. And it might not be revenue, it might be lead or opportunity, but really it's a business metric. It's not just the marketing metrics that we've been used to for the past, I don't know how many years. So really exciting that we're diving more into that space. That's awesome.

And that's so important to break it down that there's like there are so many different facets of that tracking. And of course, you know, sales is usually the North Star, but along the way to sales, because it can take so long in B2B marketing, having these other tests that you can do out there is very important for helping you along the way before, you know, before you get that sales data. And as a marketer myself, I know, like in our work and then working with so many different teams on their LinkedIn ads and B2B marketing, that tracking and measurement is so important. So super excited that LinkedIn's prioritizing this and developing tools to help us. And in addition to your work at LinkedIn, which we're going to dive deeper into today, I know there's been some other third party tools that have popped up recently, so just wondering if you can comment on how those work with the LinkedIn API and maybe some pros and cons of them.

I'll start. So some third party measurement capabilities are a little bit closer to us. You might have heard about our beta with regards to doing a data partnership with Habu to present the clean room and advanced analytics, you know, giving our customers who are a little bit more sensitive to how their data is being transported or leveraged outside of their own tech stack, some tools to dive in really deeply and ask those really hard measurement questions. But beyond those, we obviously have partnerships you might have heard about most recently with like Dream Data and the like that specialize in that kind of B2B analytics. You know, it's great to have people that are, you know, validating our methodology that is actually catering to customers across channels to tell us, yes, this is the way that our customers want to measure. It's not Just with you. And it happens to line up with the way that we're evolving our platform today. Now, there's some pros and cons, as you alluded to. I think the pros is we have these tight partnerships alone very quickly. Not just whether or not our products are working or our approaches are working, but whether or not this speaks to where our customers needs are. Does it resonate with the way that they've been doing measurement to date? Maybe not natively in the platform, but on their own? Can we make that experience a little bit more connected when it comes to measuring across all channels? And certainly that's a huge pro. I think the con of some of these is, of course, it takes time for these things to become more standard in market, first and foremost. Secondly, when it comes to an API, there's a limit to what we can do directly through an API because we do have a very strong members first principle. We don't share that data, especially in light of the recent changes for privacy and regulatory changes. So there are those limitations. Now there, there are certain, I wouldn't say workarounds, but alternatives like I mentioned with regards to the clean room that allows us to have a little bit more freedom of how much data we work with at granularity while protecting our members and our businesses alike. But you know, those are just part and parcel to how we operate in this industry. And you know, certainly we want to stay away from those things that, you know, don't have longevity when it comes to individual level data that I think we've been very reliant on for a very long period of time as a whole.

I mean, I think, you know, Jay and I have been here for quite some time, so we've kind of seen the evolution of our products over time. And I think one of the biggest evolutions we've been through is really recognizing how interdependent YouTube is with the rest of the ecosystem and recognizing that we don't envision that a customer is only going to spend ever all their time on LinkedIn. We recognize that especially in B2B, their time is going to be spent elsewhere too. And that's where having third party partnerships are really key. And so I've been really happy and impressed with the progress that we've made in building some of that out, those relationships. Building some of those relationships out.

Yeah, yeah, A lot happens on LinkedIn, but then there's CRM data and like lots of other data sources out there. So I'm excited that LinkedIn's connecting to those to help us see that, that full picture. So as we dive further into our discussion today, I'd love to kind of set the stage for listeners and talk about the broader industry landscape of like, of tracking and privacy. I know it's kind of changed a little bit over the last few years, so I was hoping if you guys could kind of explain a little bit about what those changes are and then how they've impacted digital marketing.

Yeah, kind of a little bit, kind of a lot. We've seen so much change in the past few years in the privacy landscape. I think some of these changes have been more regulatory changes that we've seen that come more from the government level down. So things like ccpa, which is more California regulation, but also more things like gdpr, which kind of has global implications for us. We've also seen platforms even start to make some of these changes. Right. Google has changed with the deprecation of third party cookies. Apple has changed in the way that they allow tracking via the ATT framework. So we've seen a lot more of a focus on consumers privacy and how that's playing out within the digital ecosystem for us all. Now it's not all doom and gloom because I think people hear this and they're like it's the end of the world advertising. It is not. But we're seeing a little bit of a counterbalance as well. So we're seeing platforms also introduce new products that are really exciting as a result of these changes. Things like AI driven campaign optimization and automation which takes less data but is able to help you be able to understand where your dollar is going to be best spent. Even things that were in league a couple years ago.

I followed up and now they're coming back. Things like clean rooms. A lot of really focus on clean rooms itself because how do we actually get that data to a platform in.

A way that's going to be privacy safe? So we see a lot of changes happening in the digital ecosystem as a whole, but we also see a lot of new innovation coming up as a result of it all.

I think the doom and gloom comment is interesting because I remember like very specifically back in the day when iOS14 was about to come out and Apple was going to stop all tracking capabilities and dreading that moment. And then like it came and it passed and it was like wait, nothing, you know, everything, everything's still working. It was like, are my campaigns going to just like fail or stop working or like stop converting and you know, life, world, the world continues. So it's kind of Interesting to see that, that progress. And then as I talked to lots of other marketers out there, I definitely noticed that you know, maybe like Facebook was more impacted by some of these changes. Whereas LinkedIn, most of the data that we're using when we're targeting is like first party data that you guys have on platform. Whereas like Facebook does a lot, did a lot of its tracking based on user actions off platform. So when that tracking got restricted, that really impacted these other platforms ability to understand their user. But the benefit of LinkedIn is that that's all first party data you guys have that you didn't lose that. So seeing very little change in the, in the LinkedIn ecosystem. So. So kind of given all those changes, I'm curious what you guys see as like some of the biggest challenges that B2B marketers face today. Maybe thinking about like what are, what are the challenges that we have in B2B that maybe B2C doesn't face.

Yeah. So I think we all, we all know that the changes have impacted us in some way and B2B, I think it makes it even more complicated honestly for B2B because the journey is so long from the first touch all the way till the sale. There's so many different channels the consumer could be on right before they actually reach that sales that before that sale actually happens. And so there is a higher need to be able to look at the end result of the sale, to be able to be able to look at on target accuracy and reach of an audience and be able to do it in a way that actually looks at the whole buying committee. But that's not easy for B2B especially because there's less data at times to go off of.

The interesting thing is like the thing that we weren't doing, the high leverage of that third party data as a core offering before is actually becoming an amazing strength for us today. Because if you think about our story that we're trying to tell, how do we help you guide through measurement products that center revenue deal opportunity? This is not stuff that existed on the open web anyways. This is in our customers CRM systems, any kind of transactional layer that they already rely on to track the progress of the deal. And so you know, I think there's a lot of juice to be squeezed there that we're like leaning into as we stitch through these server to server integrations like Joanna alluded to earlier as well as these CRM platforms to say hey, how can we stitch that data from a B2B specific lens? You know the deal, the company, the lead that we haven't done before that others can't do because there's still a lot that we can do that has upside for our customers. We just haven't attempted to today. So I'd say like the actually silver lining was an upside for us. Like with the unique challenges B2B marketers are facing, there's a lot more innovation we're doing today because of the data we haven't really aggressively used and now are leaning into. Yeah, data can be spread out in.

A lot of different places. And it's like how do you, how do you connect all those dots both for marketers and stakeholders at companies who want to know those results? A couple others I'll add to the mix that I kind of see a lot day to day is a lot of times our marketing campaigns, they might reach stakeholder A at a company and then that person might either send that ad or copy paste a link to somebody else in their company and then that person goes to convert. So a lot of times stuff will get passed away and maybe somebody else converted. But that initial impression came off LinkedIn. That's very hard to track when you're sending like links between different people. So we see that happen. We see sometimes people will switch devices very common throughout the day. You might be on your mobile phone as you're kind of running between meetings, but then you get to your desktop and you go look up something that you just saw an ad for. But then also in B2B people will be using their work devices during the day but then hop on their personal device at night. So we see a lot of cross device stuff happening there. And then the last one I'll add in is just the long sales cycles can make it tough to track things of, you know, event A happened and then sometime later event B happened. Were those two connected?

So the long sales cycles to make it to often. But I know even when you know, cookies were around there was like an expiration limit on those cookies.

So a lot of that time based stuff can expire over time. So just some extra.

I'm so glad you mentioned these things because I think that's been the realization for us post launching some of the products, you know, late last year. Like our revenue attribution report, which we'll get into a little bit later is the fact that when we think about B2B measurement specifically like attribution, how do you know what's working? Who is it affecting? Our attribution window for how most of our customers operated with it was for B2B or sorry, B2C. Right. When it's for B2C, you care about that one person. You don't care about who they passed it to. You don't care about what they thought about 90 days ago, you care about what they thought about a week ago. And so by opening up how long our attribution window, who we should consider from these companies, in fact, it's actually more B2B and it's the right measurement for B2B because it's a long sales cycle. It's 8 to 12 people that partake in a buying decision. Why don't we think of it that way rather than using the methodology that only worked for B2C where it's I sell in a way bag and I'm going to go pick up a piece of luggage. Right. And so I think that's a strong learning for us. Like, how do we also reshape the way that our products default to the right norms that align with the way that the B2B marketing and sales cycle work? It's been really rewarding to see that. It's been showing really strong results for our customers with the early ones.

Yeah. And a lot of people often ask me, like, how long should my retargeting campaigns be?

Or how long should my email sequences be? And there's that one piece of data.

You guys have in the revenue attribution report, average days to close, which is like so insightful. So oftentimes I've screenshotted that so many times and shared that with people and be like, hey, this is what, based on the sales data we see as average days to close. You know, let's make sure that you're covering that time frame for all these prospects coming through. So that's been an awesome piece of data to have. And then maybe like thinking like high level, maybe strategy. How do you guys think about measurement at LinkedIn and why is it important?

I'll start. I mean, Joe alluded to it already. Like, I think the need for effective marketing measurement is to understand and optimize your investments for company growth. Really it's, it's measurement of business investments overall. Like we're not talking about at this point. All the things that we talked about in this, in this program to date has been about revenue, about deals, but about sales. It's not about how many members did you reach, how, how many impressions did you serve. And so when we think about measurement at LinkedIn, it aligns with the core of the company's Mission, how do we create? How do we deliver on economic opportunity for the global workforce? How can we help marketers also define their success around a company's growth? With the recent shifts in the macro, especially with the pandemic, you alluded to that at the top of the hour, you know, it's hard for marketers to defend budgets because you compete against other marketers that are not around the same objective. Or maybe the sales team who's demanding more money for new headcount. Aren't you guys doing the same thing? How can we make sure our measurement aligns with those? And to your point, like average days to sales close, the fact that we can do that in a marketing product using data came from your sales team, that's just, it's mind boggling how we're not operating that way. And so when you think about measurement on LinkedIn, it really is like, how do we help you measure as marketers for the business so you make the right choices that only not only deliver on the near term goals for you as a marketer, but but also on how does it influence your sales pipeline? And I think as we dive into fixing some of the broken attribution models where we are looking at clicks or swipes across multiple websites and really test out what's working to drive those outcomes, we're getting much closer to what serves our customers best and where we believe the industry needs to go.

I think LinkedIn's always had a good approach to it. Something that even as a user I've.

Appreciated is that LinkedIn's security and their privacy rules that they have, that you.

Guys have, and it actually makes me more comfortable to share my data with my, you know, on my LinkedIn profile and with my network there, knowing that LinkedIn has these privacy rules that they're going to protect that data. So that's kind of like an interesting corollary, I think, to like having good privacy rules is that the users are more comfortable to share their data with LinkedIn, with the network, and then that kind of helps the whole ecosystem. All right, so let's dive into some of the specific LinkedIn products that you guys have here. So of course you guys have a range of products and lots of features that enable digital marketers to track and measure their campaigns both on, on and off LinkedIn, which helps us optimize our performance and return on ad spend. So can you go into what some of these tools are and how they help marketers?

Yeah, so maybe I'll start off with the foundations of good measurement. So I think a lot of times when we think about measurement, we're thinking about roas, we're thinking about revenue. The output of it really is the report or the metric. But actually what's the foundation of it is the data that you have in place. It's the signals that we actually get to help us understand what's really happening with that buyer. What's the, what's the underpinning of it is good foundation. And for us that's good signals. It's making sure that we actually are able to understand what's happening with each buyer. So there's two products that I'll touch on really quickly. The first is the Conversions API. I think a lot of us are familiar with the Conversions API or capi, but the reason why it's coming up so much these days is because of the upcoming verification of their party cookies. Conversions API is a way to actually send a lot of the conversions that are happening or signals that are happening on the buyer directly from a server to LinkedIn in a very privacy safe way and in a way that's not reliant on cookies. So it's a nice way to establish that foundation. The other really cool thing I think about Kathy, is that anything that we get can be optimized again. So that means that if we understand that there are MQLs and SQLs and those are super valuable to a marketer, we can actually start to optimize to get more of those so that it's really that nice flywheel effect of what's happening with campaign optimization. What we've seen from our beta is that customers have seen a 31% increase in attributable conversions and then also a 20% decrease in cost per action. Again, because we're getting this rich data that goes far beyond what you may get just from an insight tag or an event that happens on site alone. So Kapi is super powerful and something that is now available for our advertisers. The second that I'll talk about is a product called Website Actions. So In February of 2022, LinkedIn actually acquired this company called Aribi. They actually specialize in marketing analytics. And now over time we've been able to bring the Aribi technology into the LinkedIn platform and it now powers a product called Website Action. What this does is for B2B's. We often know that some of those signals that have leading indicators before a sale happens are those that happen on site. It could be somebody downloading a white paper. It could be somebody signing up for A free trial or a demo. Website Actions captures all of that automatically for any customer that has the Insight tag already on their site, which is the majority of our customers, that then gives them a way to be able to retarget or they can actually measure who's actually taken those actions via conversions. So CAPI and Website Actions are really good combo together. Website Actions captures on site activity automatically. Copy helps a lot with redundancy to make sure that we're capturing all the signals, but also helps with that deeper optimization.

And as a marketer, I'll say we're so grateful for Website Actions because previously whenever I saw a form on a.

Website that didn't redirect to a thank you page, I was like, oh boy, this is going to be a lot.

Of work to do conversion tracking on this.

I'm going to have to involve a developer.

They're going to have to say on.

This button click, then do this event code. So we are very happy to have Website Actions. That's awesome to hear. I'll mention a couple other measurements products that we were really excited about and how they kind of work together. But before I do around the theme of how do we make our measurement products more actionable and how it connects to optimization, but just other ways to improve capping data. Another consideration I throw out there is we've seen strong results from customers using the data from our CAPI integration to even launch modeled audiences through our Predictive audiences program. And so doing more with the data we have not just to report, but to optimize, then fully scale and activate a new audience segment is really amazing. That we want to make sure we close these flywheels so you can see optimization wins on wins the more and more you connect our products together. So in that vein though, I draw your attention to Revenue Attribution Report. Great to see that you're seeing insights off of that. For the B2B marketer who has previously had some experience with ABM products, you know they, they shouldn't be unfamiliar with something like the company engagement report. And so if you see what's, what's happening with your pipeline and who is actually now engaging now, you can segment based on that so you can tier your marketing campaigns differently. Like these are a little trailing, let's put them in brand. These are other ones that are further down. Let's put them in our demand campaigns. And so I think our products working together is a huge focus for us as we deliver these new solutions because we want you to be able to work through multiple of them in a singular workflow. The only other one that I'd mention is what I spoke to earlier. I think we have really sophisticated measurement needs. The more you get comfortable with one measurement product or suite, the more you have an appetite for other ones that deliver more outsized impact. And so I alluded to the Advanced Insights or our data Clean room beta with HABU and that's been getting steady stream. So for customers that need custom analytics, deep insights or protected space to work with their sensor data, we give them this Advanced Insights beta product to allow them to do these deep dives, not just mirroring what we do in RER or but to customize it for their custom stack and the way that their ops work or our third party measurement partnerships. I think I talked about validating our results. We want you to, we absolutely want you to. And so our third party partnerships are really critical to defeating the truth of our platform. And so doing the lift test, doing the cross channel holdback studies, whatever that's necessary in order to give you that faith that yes, this is the right path forward. That these new metrics, these new reporting capabilities, where I anchor myself on business growth is the way that I want to evolve as a marketer. We want to support that and our partners are very critical in supporting that.

That's awesome. And for that, that company engagement report, I know I've sent that to lots of different teams and they'll often share that with their sales teams and be like, hey, this is, you can see here where if we're doing an ABM approach or you know, Dream 100 approach or even your opportunity list will be uploading, the sales team always wants to know how engaged are those accounts so that that company engagement report is like super useful to see. Okay. These companies have been engaging, you know, let's make sure sales is reaching out to them or these companies have not been engaging, that puts them at risk. And then just so that sales team knows that that's like such useful data for them to have. So yeah, those are all have been amazing tools. And then so you guys have an awesome tool set here. Are there any specific examples of either use, you know, customer examples using these or maybe success stories that you'd want to highlight maybe to give listeners a couple, a couple ideas how they might use these.

I'm looking at Joe. She's probably going through a repo of all the customer case studies we have.

You're actually right, I was actually doing that. You were, you were like a write on. I was doing that.

I know you Guys, I always see like new ones getting posted and I'm like, I'm always like, oh, I'm come back and read all these. But I like, I've skimmed through lots of them.

Yeah. So I think one example of a customer that I'll call out is we work with, I mean we work with customers from all different backgrounds and verticals. But one in particular I'll mention is a SaaS company that we've worked with. They were actually looking to grow their business, which is something we hear very often, which is why you advertise in the first place. But what they actually did is they used LinkedIn's native targeting to be able to target and tailor their campaign across the buying journey. But then they were able to use the Revenue Attribution report to look at how those campaigns actually translated down to sales and to outcomes. I love your call out and be able to use that as well to understand like time to close. I think that's a really important metric to be looking at too. But with this particular customer they were able to easily, easily sync their CRM data via Salesforce and then that helped them inform and justify back to the business the full funnel strategy that they were using on LinkedIn. One of the interesting things I think here is we're often hearing from advertisers, especially brand advertisers, that they're increasingly being asked to be able to show what brand dollars do to actually drive lower final outcomes. So this particular customer was able to use the Revenue Attribution Report to be able to make that connection.

Yeah. And I love, I love how the RAR can associate. You know, they have the different options for impressions, attributing impressions to impact and so many. I remember I was just talking to somebody last week and you know, the average click through rate is like 04. So that means 99.6 of impressions are not clicked on. So if you're just tracking based off click data, you're missing out on 99.6% of impressions that are happening. I remember we had a conversation last week with the client and they were just like, wow, that's like all of them.

It's true. I think it's natural you might discount them. When it comes to other places where you spend your money, we'll leave it at that. Where it's hard to be sure about the accuracy that you're reaching people that work at this company or that they are part of this buying group or buying committee. I think we take for granted as folks that work on products at LinkedIn. When you intend to reach people that are senior managers in marketing in the state of Georgia, Texas, Tennessee, that's who you're reaching. Exactly. But if you're buying ad impressions elsewhere, a lot of the justification comes down to scale and less the scrutiny on target. And so, you know, when you factor those kinds of things in to look at, you know, impressions, do they matter? Yes, they do matter, but it depends on who you serve them to. You know, I'll be honest, I love my mother, but if she got impressions for an ad that they something that I'm responsible for buying, I don't think it's going to make a difference. She won't tell me which CRM system to buy. So, you know, at the end of the day it's, you know, who you're connecting with that factors in deeply into what impressions matter. To your point, that engages the people before they go to a sale. Absolutely.

And then any, maybe tactical tips or tricks that you, you give to listeners who might be thinking about implementing these.

Tools, I'm going to steal from Jo. So she's going to be put on the spot for something harder. I think. You know, building a really strong data foundation is the first, first place. I mean, I'm not lucky enough to own one of those homes on Dana Point or you know, wherever it is off the coast. But first and foremost it is that. It doesn't mean getting any and all data that's available out there and buying through third party or the like. But you have really strong data assets that create outsized results using some of the solutions that are AI powered, like campaign optimization or activation or even just measurement solutions. So first and foremost, make sure your data is in a place to work for you. The second one is the holy tray I alluded to before. If the metrics you measure on day to day around the key results in ROI isn't indicating or directionally aligned with what you're doing from a longitudinal study, a measurement study, a cross channel holdback, something's off. Take a look at that. Why aren't these channels contributing the way that you expected them to? And then the third one is of course like validation, lift testing, third party measurement partnerships. You know, at some point when your measurement stack is matured to a state where this is core and critical to guiding your business deeply leverage them. It's worth doing on a regular basis because with less data, it doesn't mean that we can't do any of these things. It just means that the rigor for how we measure costs will be Just much more important and much higher than it was before.

The big one, I think I would.

Just mention is the measurement.

Sometimes it can honestly be really confusing, like, what do I use to measure the right thing that I'm trying to get at. Right. And I think it's the first part is just understanding, like, what are you trying to measure and then figuring out the right tool in your toolbox to be able to do that. Because even in our Portfolio we have 10 products at least, that could help you measure. So it's about figuring out where you are and what you're trying to measure and the outcomes you're trying to get at and then figuring out also where you want to go. Because we know that measurement is a journey. So really plotting out what the strategy is for you to measure over time to where you want to be with your business. Business. Our team recently created this index that we think can help advertisers as well. So if you have a LinkedIn rep, you can definitely talk with them and they can help you.

Can you tell me a little more about that index? What's that index?

So it's called the Measurement Maturity Index and it's created by our Customer Science organization. And what it does is marketers answer some questions and then as an output of their answers, they get a diagnostic that shows them where they are on a score from 0 to 100 in their measurement Maturity journey. And then it also gives them prescriptive recommendations about what products or what solutions they may want to look at that's going to be right for their business.

Gotcha. That does sound super interesting. And I imagine even just going through answering those questions, you're probably going to be like, oh, we're not tracking that, or we are tracking that, we're not tracking that other one, but we probably should be tracking that other one. So that sounds like a good questionnaire to go through. And then something else, Jay, you reminded me is that I feel like most people aren't even aware of the brand lift studies that LinkedIn offers. And I know I've run these for lots of, lots of clients, but most people aren't even aware that they're there. And you need a certain amount of data to run these brand lift tests. But if you're spending over like, I think it's like 30k a month in LinkedIn ads, then these are kind of free or like that's it's included. There's no extra cost for running those brand lift studies. And if you have that much data going through your account, you can then run one of those brand lift studies, is that right?

Largely? Yes, that's right. And so like, I think, you know, brand list studies are very sensitive measurement tools to get, you know, strong indicators for what's working and what's not. And I think we've invested a lot in terms of advancing our survey capabilities around that as well. And so if you're a brand marketer, highly, highly recommend, you know, evaluating that as an option to understand like what's working, what isn't.

All right, and maybe I'll kind of.

Summarize this section and I think you.

Guys both mentioned like, it kind of starts with like the strategy of going into measurement, knowing what do I want to measure, what is going to be my most important KPIs. If I try to measure everything, then I'm just going to have a lot more noise. And you know, conversion, tracking, measurement is all about finding that signal within the noise. So as you approach it, know, know what you want to track and then set up your conversion, tracking and measurement accordingly. And then I'll also add in, you know, getting started with the basics is, is you guys have made it very easy getting the insight tag in your website, setting up some website conversions with website actions, and then connecting the raw report. These are all just a couple clicks to do and you don't need to involve a developer for any of those. I guess getting the insight tag on your website, website, you might need that. But other than that, these are all kind of a couple clicks to get all set up and going and then you have a lot of measurement at your fingertips there. So as you approach it, know what you want to track, get the basics in place and then you have a good, good foundation there. So, all right, well, we've had a really good kind of state of measurement and privacy on LinkedIn. So to wrap us up here, could you guys provide any, any high level insights that you have on the future of privacy and B2B measurement and what's ahead on the LinkedIn roadmap?

Whether we call it privacy, whether we call it regulation tied to big tech, these kinds of changes, whether it's coming from the manufacturer or the government, they're here to stay. And that's because our data, us as consumers, is everywhere. And it's so vast and so deep and so largely this is the right thing for us as a larger ecosystem. Now how do we function within that space? It's absolutely important that we anchor on how do we provide marketers with value, measure against outcomes and as we talk through These solutions, they don't have to be in direct conflict with privacy. We understand that there's a place where you have consented data, where modeling fits into that. This data that takes a longer time scale to know that even the short form measurement that we do that is missing pieces is correct if you're modeling correctly against that long term data scale. And so I think when we think about our roadmap, it's very cognizant of the changes that are afoot and that there will be further changes on the horizon. And so the foundations approach that mentioned before, the interplay of all our products working together to make a simpler experience for you as a marketer who wants to do business, who wants to see that insight of roi. We are focusing on how we invest deeply in that space and so you don't need to go and hopefully hire this massive consulting agency with a superpowered like data tech stack to make things work. We want to make it easy for you to get clarity on what's working, what's not and find validity in that approach by working with our partners or ecosystem players to give you that independent insight on the things that we we bring to you at such like one or two clicks access.

Awesome. So basically there's lot there's there will always be privacy changes happening. LinkedIn's here to help you along the journey.

That's right.

Joanna, any, any others add in there?

The only thing I would add is embrace new ways of doing things so we see AI and like bringing so many new innovations to our space. And so this is an incredible opportunity to try things out, especially if you have rich first party data, if you don't invest there too. But once you have rich first party data it opens up so many options for you.

Awesome. Well thank you guys both for coming on the podcast today. We'll be sharing links to all this information on all these products in the show notes. And again as a marketer, thank you for your hard work and what you do over there helping us with tracking and measurement.