78 Year Old Endurance Athlete Training for Triathlons

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You are in for a treat. If you think you're too old, if you think it's too late, if you think something's too long, too high, or too hard— do I sound a little like Dr. Seuss? And I apologize for that, that role is taken. But this is your episode if you need a little shot of fitness motivation. You need a little belief in age not being a limiter, but being a reason. This is for you. My guest today is a prior guest on the Flipping 50 Podcast, and it is Dexter Yates. She's 78. She's been on a couple years ago, at least once, if not twice, and she is an inspiration. I'm going to read her quote-unquote bio she shared with me in her voice rather than what you usually hear me read is in third person talking about my guest. I'm going to read this as she wrote it just to honor her. Dexter is 78, but she says, I identify as a 79-year-old for racing, as it's her last year in the female 74 to 79 age group. I started doing triathlons back in the late '70s. My first triathlon, I was third female overall, but I was also dead last. We were not many females racing back then, and they didn't even have awards for the women. What they did is went to the local grocery store and got us each a single red rose. My first Ironman was Penticton, Canada in 1993, where I won my first age group, first female 45 to 49. I qualified for Kona, which is a big deal, you all. And there I placed 10th in the female 45 to 49 age group. And at that time, by the way, there were only 21 women in the 45 to 49 age group. By the way, That too is a big deal. Like, take that times thousands. Now, I raced in the Penticton Canada Ironman again in 1995. And then life happened. My time was limited, so swimming and cycling became harder to fit into my lifestyle, and I was drawn to ultra running. And for the next few years, I ran dozens of 50-mile trail runs. My career as a teamster truck driver limited the amount of training needed to race, and there were a few years there I didn't race at all. Once I retired in 2010, I moved just outside of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. There I found myself with a local Ironman race and a community of athletes. So at the age of 66, I came out of race retirement and started racing again. Since then, I've raced another 15 full Ironman races. We will define that for you, friends. For a total of 16 full Ironman finishes with 10 Ironman age group wins—Penticton, Coeur d'Alene, Boulder, and Cozumel—5 Kona finishes. There have been a few DNFs, which means did not finish, and those are painful along the way. Nobody said it was easy. That has not deterred me. I'll keep racing as long as it is fun. As for the half marathon distance, I've done a few of those and qualified for the Ironman 70.3 World Championships, Ironman 70.3 World Championship races in Australia, South Africa, and France. In 2018, racing in South Africa Debra Atkinson at the Ironman 70.3 World Championship. I won my age group, becoming the world champion in the female 70 to 74 age group. I do have a delightful sponsor, ASEA. They provide me with the Fountain of Youth products that keep me young, healthy, and able to recover and keep going. Listen, you all tune into this one. You're going to love this one. And if, again, if you're feeling, I'm too old, I'm getting older, fast forward. Imagine yourself at 78, 79, looking forward to the goals you will hear my guests say. But I need to recruit you as you listen. Take on this responsibility and request, please. I want you to focus on an ask. In the middle of this episode. Help us send some good energy out to the universe for Dexter's goal. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50. I started this podcast over a decade ago to answer questions about fitness in menopause and beyond before you knew to ask them. The goal: to help accelerate your results with science and the practical application of proven protocols while living your best life. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman. And it's not just about you, but the 3 generations that you influence. My unique 40-year career, including being a university senior lecturer in kinesiology, an industry subject matter expert, and an international speaker, to founder of the first and the only exclusively made-for-menopause and beyond fitness membership in the world. Every week I interview experts experts behind the scenes and the science of optimal hormone balancing, fitness, and longevity, and share answers to our community's questions so you can have the vitality and the energy that you want, need, and deserve. Dexter Yates, thank you so much for being here. It's so selfish of me, but I'm going to let everybody else just lean over our shoulder and watch our little catch-up. Thanks for being here.

Well, thank you for inviting me. I'm excited to chat with you.

Well, and knowing you, this might or might not have interrupted a training ride or something. I mean, what was— what did you do today, just to give us a clue into who we're talking to?

Well, today is a beautiful day, and I was Thinking about going out and doing a long bike ride. However, yesterday I spent 2 hours in the dentist chair and then this morning I lost a temporary crown, which I have to, as soon as we're done, go get replaced. Oh no. Oh my. But my training has been going well. I, about 6 or 7 days ago, I did my first 100-mile ride of the year. I saw it. Yes. With multiple hill repeats. And then day before yesterday, I went out and did 3 more. At the same things, but only did 76 miles. I was riding with a friend and we concluded that 76 miles was just fine for that day.

I love it. And okay, so we also— I asked you, are you training by the numbers? Are you strict with the numbers? And for everybody else here who is already blown away by this and just thinking, wait, did I hear this right? Am I hearing this right? You are hearing this right. Okay. And we will go back and start at the beginning in a minute. But selfishly, I'm going to dive in here because I asked Dexter, how are you training? Because I didn't actually know the answer to this question. I don't think we've ever dug deep into how do you train and do you test and are you using heart rate training? And I loved your answer. So go ahead and I'll let you share it with everyone listening, how do you decide how hard, how long?

Well, I'm a little bit old school. I started doing— well, my first Ironman was 1993. At that time, I think I was like 49 years old, and they didn't have all of the heart rate monitors, the— all of those numbers that everybody trains by. So At that point in time, I learned to listen to my body to get where I needed to be. I had also come from an equestrian background, and in training my horse, I followed how he was responding to training. The, you know, the communication between me and my horse was just visual and by feel. So I kind of trained that way myself, the same way that I trained my horses. By how I feel, listening to my body and just training. I feel if I need to do something, I get out and do it. If it's not a good day, then I don't do it. It's kind of hard to explain, really, but I kind of fly by the seat of my pants, just how I feel. So it's not very technical, that's for sure, but it's been working so far.

Oh, knock on wood. Yes, I'd say definitely so far. And I want to just restate what, what you said. So first of all, you're here and you're listening, you're thinking, oh my goodness, she's, you know, officially in the 79 age bracket, right? This year it'll be your last year doing that. Yes. And you are though 78 years old, am I right?

Yeah, I will be 79 in August. So, okay. Not quite there yet. Okay, okay.

And you may be dwelling on that fact, but she also said something very important for those of you who are here and you're in perimenopause. 49 was her first Ironman, right? Like, she didn't start this when she was 21, you know, she started later. So I want to ask you about that. And you have quite a history, actually. So you've been drawn to some things that maybe not every listener here has been drawn to. I mean, you, you're speaking to my hard for sure. So endurance and long distance and just the challenge of that. I love, you know, where you've come from and what you've done, but what got you started? What spoke to you about trying or attempting this in the first place?

Well, as you had mentioned, I did have a history of endurance. As when I was, I guess, 16, my mother and my sister actually did their first endurance horseback ride. And I went along and watched and wanted to do that too. Well, years later, I did. I did do my first endurance sport, and I loved it. I discovered I don't really feel that I have a lot of fast-twitch muscles, but I have the ability to keep going. The first endurance horse ride that I did was a 100-mile horse ride over the Sierra Mountains, and they allow you 24 hours to complete it in, one horse, one rider. And, uh, it took me 23 hours and 47 minutes to cover that 100 miles. Well, at the end of that 23 hours and 47 minutes, I had to take care of my horse. And before I got on him at the start of the— so I was up and active and completely participating and being going for, you know, probably as much as 30 hours. And I just realized that is my strength. I then went from doing that type of endurance riding to an event called ride and tie, and that is one horse and two people, which it's a multi-sport, a multi-activity sport where there's horseback riding and running. So one person starts on the horse and one person starts running, and you leapfrog between the distance of the course, the horse being tied The sit-up gets to rest, the runner gets to rest while ride— sort of rest while riding, and so on and so forth. Well, after doing one multisport activity that involved endurance, I borrowed my son's bike and learned to swim. Well, sort of learned to swim. I did the sidestroke. My first triathlon that I did, it was just a local sprint triathlon. And in that race, I was actually third woman overall. However, I was also dead last. There were not very many women participating in triathlons at that time. So it was kind of a unique experience for me. Um, but I just fell in love with it. I just said, I want to do more. And every time I saw a local triathlon, uh, it just rang out to me. I wanted to do that. And, uh, so I did and I still love it and I'll keep doing it as long as it's fun. I love that.

And I think you, you were saying that when we first met, which, gosh, at this point, I don't know if that was 5 or 6 years ago. The pandemic does strange things to time.

I know, I know. I think it had to have been— it had to have been before 2020. So, oh yeah, it definitely was.

Yeah. So, and I'm so looking forward to potentially seeing you again in Cozumel if it works out. Oh, definitely. And, and my listeners, I haven't really said this, so I guess I will let this be the first official announcement. So yeah, so many of my listeners, if you know, you've been here for a moment, you know that endurance exercise can be the nemesis of a woman who's going through perimenopause with some roller coaster things. And the last one I did in 2019, in fact, was Um, so it threw me under the bus pretty good. So I have not done one since. And I just got the call, you know, with my 60th birthday, like, if I'm going to do this, I kind of need to get back on the horse and I need to, I want to do this now and get started again and follow in your footsteps, hopefully. Awesome. Awesome. You have such big goals. It's hardly that, you know, a lot of people will say, you know, we're slowing down. And I want to come back to asking about any resistance that you've experienced. Experienced probably outside of triathlon community, but your goals this year, we talked in the green room. So I want you to share what it is you are thinking for this year and for next year already. You're not just thinking this year, you're really forward planning. What is it that we want?

Okay, here we go. It's big, it's bold, it's, you know, it's never been done before. But I am entered into 2 full Ironmans this year. Uh, I plan to do California Sacramento, which is in October, and then I plan to go and see you in Cozumel in November. And both of those races are qualifiers for the Kona Ironman World Championship for women in 2025. And In 2025, I will be racing as an 80-year-old. I will be breaking into the 80-84 age group, which is extremely exciting for me. And I want very much to qualify, go to Kona, and finish and be the first 80-year-old Ironman World Champion, female World Champ, and To me, it's, it's, I feel like I can get there. I feel like it's a possibility, but it does take a lot of work, and I am putting in that work now. It's like those goals start now, and we're reaching for them. My training is going very well so far. You know, 80-year-old female, because there have been men that have done it in their 80s and even 90s at this point, but That's my big goal.

That is a big goal. It is big. It is bold, and we love it. And so anybody who's listening right now who just heard that, I actually got chills when she said it. You know, somebody will do this for the first time. We wanted to be Dexter. So if you are on a hike right now and you're listening and we're in your earbuds, or you're on a commute or you're lifting weights and you're listening while you're doing that, we— I love those things, by the way. I want you to just look up and send some good power. The power of a collective thought sent out to the universe is so much better than just one of us all by themselves. So please do that. Yes. Yeah, we gotcha. And you do it, we all win. That's— there's nothing better than to say, let's raise the glass ceiling. We haven't thought this is possible. So I want to go backward a little bit and say, first of all, I want to call attention for everybody to what you said. You know, the work happens now, laying the foundation for the strength, which includes the doing the work and listening and knowing when this is actually a recovery day, needs to be in order to do the work again later. And I think we're all like that, you know, whether you're 45 or you're 55 or you're 65 or older, whether you have a smaller goal, it yet feels big to you. It is. We're putting the insurance in right now. We're putting everything in the bank for later so that we have it there. We have that reserve when we need it. Talk to me about resistance. Is there any resistance about what you're doing at your age? So I know you're probably very inspiring to anyone watching, but are you also, have you had to experience someone thinking maybe you shouldn't be doing that at your age, or, you know, is that safe, or wondering?

Well, my children, I have two adult children, obviously, and they're very supportive. There have been a few times I had a little setback last year. I had a situation with AFib and had to have a coronary ablation. And my daughter, who is a surgeon, she is in medical personnel, she said, "Mom, you know, what are you thinking?" And I told her what I wanted to do. She was very supportive. There wasn't really resistance, but we just had a talk about how much longer I wanted to do this and what I wanted to put my body through. And it just came to me that as long as it's fun, it's right to be doing it. My son is just, hey, go mom, go, you know, he's just cheerleader type and is great. But I really, from the outside world, haven't had that many negative responses. It seems as though more frequently than not I get, wow, you know, you really inspire me and That feels good. So maybe I don't listen to the negative ones when they come up. Maybe I just kind of go, oh, well, they're not talking about me. It must be somebody else around. I do tend to be a little bit zeroed in focus on where I want to go and what I want to do. And it's kind of easy for me to take negative words or negative thoughts and go and get them in my rearview mirror as quick as I can, you know, just get past them and go forward. Because there's no reason to dwell on negative thoughts. I feel—

how important do you think that attitude has been to your training? You know, because when you say, I'll keep doing this as long as it's fun, you know, I've been out there in the dark with you, you know, and there are moments when I think, you know, I signed up for this, you know, and I'm not sure my ankle or that blister really all that fun at this moment, you know, but we all have those things where you've got to go through that because the bigger picture is, yes, I do want to do that. I want what's at the other end of that. How important is that attitude, Ben, and how much do you have to call on that, like during a tough training ride or a tougher swim?

Yeah, it's— I don't know, I maybe there's a switch in my brain somewhere that just says if it's negative, just Just delete it. Just go on. Yeah, I've had some bad times. I've had some times I, and the last time I attempted to, to race in Kona was when I was having the AFib situation. And I had been put by a well-meaning physician, put me on a beta blocker. And my training went well. I felt pretty good, but I never had to push beyond that point of discomfort, if it started getting comfort, I just backed down and said, "Well, today isn't a good day to do that." However, in Kona, I had made it on the bike up to the turnaround point and had had a couple situations where I got really lightheaded as I was really working on some of the climbs. And during that, I thought, Am I just not able to do this? What's going on? And I didn't have time, or I didn't— my mind didn't think about the beta blockers that I was on. It was just that I'm really feeling lightheaded. It was scary. And if I pass out, I'm going to be on that hot blacktop. And it was just scary. Those were probably some of the darkest times I had. Once I kind of pulled off to the side and said, okay, this is not going to happen today. I'm going to have to just accept a non-finishing day at Kona. When I talked to some medical personnel that were giving me a ride back into town after I had dropped out of the race, we realized, or it dawned on me, that it's that darn beta blockers. My heart rate can't keep up with what I'm asking it to do. And then I went in and had the ablation. But there are very, very dark times. Everybody has them. It, it, they come and then you figure out why and get past it as, as best you can. And so now I have been, haven't had any more of those problems. So I'm feel like I'm good to go and not, not gonna focus on the negative. Just keep working towards the positive. Love that. Love that.

So talk to me a little bit about— obviously it's very much endurance. And we potentially, for anybody listening who does not know what an Ironman is, I apologize. Triathlon itself is 3 unique sports: swimming, biking, and running linked together. Traditionally, I know there's a lot of play on words today, and triathlon could mean something to somebody else, but that's traditionally what it means. There are all kinds of different distances. Dexter mentioned sprints, which Literally, the shorter, generally the faster it is. There's Olympic distance, there's half Ironman, and then full Ironman is 2.4-mile swim, often in open water. There is no line on the bottom of the pool to keep your eye on. You cannot stop and put your feet down. This is true for most cases. And then there's a 112-mile bike ride, and then there's a marathon, 26.2 miles on the other end. So The total is 142, isn't it? 42.6. 40.6. Thank you. Seems like 142. Okay. That's right. So, and probably I went the long way once or twice, but there's that. I think we all just to get the idea. And you mentioned in the horse ride, I think, you know, you finished with what, like 7 minutes to spare or so, I believe. Maybe 13. My math is not great, right? But I would have to say there have been many I AMs that I've done where I got my money's worth. Yeah, came awful close to passing that finish line or the time where they give you 17 hours, everyone. And sometimes you need them. And sometimes the things you don't expect to happen happen. And that's part of the race too, is figuring them out and still getting yourself to the finish line. Not maybe in the way that you thought it would look like with a PR, but crossing is still such a big deal. We believe you can look and feel as good or better as when you were younger, as long as you don't try to exercise the same way you did when you were younger to get there. We believe the science that there is saying there's no correlation between menopause and weight gain. We believe that our bodies are meant to move, and when you stop moving, you accelerate aging. Flipping 50 is for women who want to grow bolder, not older, who'd rather focus on lifting weight than losing weight, and requirement late instead of retirement. They are the most powerful health influencers in the world, and they're using science to gain muscle, bone, and improve brain health now, and that their 85-year-old selves will thank them for. The Flipping 50 Show features guests and topics that help you do just that. Hosted by me, Debra Atkinson, 40-year fitness professional, founder of Flipping 50, and currently flipping 60 right there with you. Has there ever been a finish line, Dexter, that you crossed and, and didn't get emotional? Do you still get emotional when you cross the finish line?

Oh yes. Yeah. It's one of those strange things that are just unbelievable. You'll be, say in Kona, you're out there in the, you know, with the lava fields and it's dark and you're all alone. And you know, you may see people passing you in the dark. It's a very eerie situation. You can really get into your head out there. But then as you get in closer to town and you start hearing the announcements on the speakers, you know, because they carry through the night air. And I'm usually one of the midnight hour finishers. And you start getting closer and Somewhere from some unknown source, you get this extra boost of energy. And I'm getting goosebumps just talking about it.

I am too. I am too.

When you turn to go down Ali'i Drive and there's lights and there's cheering and you just get this whole— it's like 5 o'clock in the morning and you're on the start line and you just have all of this energy and you come across the line and you just explode. Load with this wonderful feeling of joy. Um, 2 minutes later, you're kind of like, oh wow, I just did that. And that energy leaves you, but the glow sort of remains for, you know, hours until you finally get to sleep. Because you don't— as commonly expected, you don't just finish and go find a place and go to sleep. No, it takes a while to bring yourself down and get that last surge of energy through your, your being. You really do have an emotional situation there. I'm visualizing multiple finish lines and several of them have been not only in the midnight hour, but within the last 10 minutes before the end of the race, before they have the final cutoff. And those are so emotional. There's kind of a tradition at Ironman and the midnight hour usually brings out a big big festival party atmosphere. The winners have gone home, showered, and eaten and taken a nap or whatever, but they'll come back and greet you at the finish line. And it's a whole festival coming in the midnight hour. I would still like to come in earlier at some point. I don't know if that's ever going to be possible. Yeah, it's a very emotional time. Very emotional. Ditto.

Okay. So take us to the starting line. It's certainly different wired in adrenaline, but how do you generally feel at the beginning, right before a race begins?

I feel a lot of butterflies, a lot of nerves, a lot of nerves.

Even still with all those under your belt?

Yeah. Oh yeah. I get very nervous. And sometimes when I think back of how I felt or how I was reacting. I go, my gosh, you've done this enough, just relax. It's very hard to stay relaxed. And you know, when you speak of the 17 hours, much the same as when you speak of the 24 hours for the 100-mile horseback ride, there are hours before you actually are— have your toe on the line or step into the water. There are hours that happen before, and there are hours that happen after. You know, it's, well, what do you do in that time? You do a You make sure your equipment is, you know, your, all of your preparation, all of your equipment is in order. You have obvious restroom breaks and lines at the porta-potties or whatever's available. And there's just so much that goes on before you even start. And so it's a very, very long day. And then that surge of energy you get when you cross the finish line. Still takes a while to dissipate. And it is definitely an endurance sport.

So, and that said, so of course, to do well at an endurance sport, you need to go long and practice long. And as we age, we lose that. You mentioned fast twitch muscle fiber faster. Do you do fast twitch training to help gain power when you're out there, maybe on a hill or wanting to pass someone? Do you do any fast twitch work? Not that much.

I do try to do some sprints in my swim. When I'm doing my swim, a lot of times I will do 25-yard all out and then easy back, 25 out. And I'll do that in my swim. On my bike, I I kind of feel for me personally is doing hills. I just am such a big proponent of hills. The people I train with go, oh, you're gonna do hill. We don't wanna do hills again. No, let's do hills. Let's do hills.

Can't ride with you today. I'm so sorry.

And hills build strength and endurance. And, but for me, when you turn around and come down the hill, Oh yeah, yeah, I push it. I push it hard coming down, which is probably the same as doing sprint workout. Um, I, I do have this— I'm very fortunate to have the place to train where I do. It's actually about 70-some miles of rails to trails where there are very, very few street crossings and The area that I train on most frequently is about a 5.5 to 6-mile hill. It's not real steep. I think it's maybe like 3 or 4%, but it's long. And so I can go up that and, you know, really work on my strength and endurance. I try to get up it as fast as I can, but it's really not sprinting because you are climbing. But coming down, I can push it. I don't have to worry about any cars. I live in Idaho and maybe a moose or rooster. As long as you don't see any moose and deer coming down, you're good.

So good. And that said, not sprinting, but you are doing power. So, you know, as you're pushing hard going uphill, you are getting the power. So that's awesome. Yes. Very cool. I want to ask you too about exercise nutrition. So you've done this over a long period of time. Have you played or dabbled or changed your nutrition and what works best for you when you're on the bike and on the run particularly?

Well, when I first started doing it, I actually was a very strict vegetarian back in the '90s. Wow. Very strict. And I stayed pretty much vegetarian for 30 or 40 years. Then as I got older, I was actually kind of coerced into adding some meat products. At this point, I have added chicken, and some of the other meats just don't digest well. And it's, I think it's because I was vegetarian for so long, and I have been told that I could add them back slowly, but I'm content with just having chicken, which, you know, I, I don't really know the science of it all, but it's been working. So if it works, then go with it. I have gained weight, which I am trying very hard to lose. For an athlete that is doing endurance training, losing weight is an extremely fine line balance because you have to have the nutrition to fuel your body to do what you need to do. And then, so you can't just say, oh, I'm going to go on this diet or that diet it. You still have to feed your body. And, you know, after you do a 100-mile bike ride, you are hungry. There, there's no getting around it. Right.

Um, Jim said, are you measuring or tracking your lean muscle mass or body composition so that I do track it? You're sure you're losing fat versus muscle?

Yeah. Yes, I do have, well, I, I wear a, a Garmin watch and It's connected to my scales, so it tells me what I am losing and what, you know, what I'm not losing. And as hard as it is, and even though everybody says, oh, don't weigh every day, I do weigh every day. And I try to make sure that we're not getting out of balance or doing anything drastic. Yes, after I do— well, like I said, last week I did that, my first 100-mile ride, which before that I think I'd only gone like 50 miles. So it was a big jump. Pump, but I was determined to get it in and get going on it. And yeah, they were— my numbers were a little bit out of balance, but this is understandable because I probably got a little bit dehydrated and so on and so forth. But as time went on past then, they're back into their normal balance. So, you know, you do go through times that get a little bit off, But your body is, it's an amazing machine.

Isn't it? Well, and a lot of people watching would say, do you not have anything, no issues with your knees or your hips or your shoulders?

Well, yes, I did fracture my shoulder years and years and years ago. I'm actually in 1973. So, you know, it's a very old injury, but it has left me with a little bit of limited rotation for my swim. And sometimes after doing a long swim workout, especially if I'm doing a lot of pushing, it'll ache. But other than that, you know, I have an awkward, probably somewhat unbalanced stroke. If somebody watching me to critique my stroke may say, "You're a little bit lopsided." Well, yeah, I am. There's a reason for that. Knees and hips, you know, it's kind of one of these things. I just keep my fingers crossed and hope that they don't give out. They're They're still good, but I'm not going to mess with it. If it's good, don't break it. Just leave it.

You know, we don't fix it if it's not broken. That's right.

Exactly. Yeah.

Well, and one of the things that I personally love about triathlon so much is it does help you use the body in a balanced way. You know, you're not dwelling on the pounding every day. You're using power on the bike and not having to get the high impact. You're then switching that and getting the upper body involved and giving the lower body a break. And I, I, I love the rotation and the, the way it's strengthening, but I also have to say your attitude is probably a huge part of that. You know, positive attitude is everything.

Well, another thing that, that I have done, and I've done it for several years, is because running is probably the most injury-prone activity of the 3. I will do a lot of my workouts where I will run outdoors for an amount of time, which I'm getting the pounding. You need to have that to strengthen the impact or the cushioning or— but I also do a lot of training on what I have is a Zero Runner. And I'm able to run on that. And I love it because it tells me I'm going so much further, so much faster. But I am doing the motion. I am using those muscles, and I'm using them faster than I would outdoors because I don't have the weight, the impact. The Zero Runner is similar to an elliptical, but an elliptical, you're kind of just swishing back and forth. My Zero Runner is made in such a way that it has a hip joint and a knee joint, so you're actually lifting your feet up. You're not just swishing back and forth. And if I hook it up to my computer when I'm running, I can see how high I'm lifting my feet. I, I don't usually do that. I've had it for so many years, I'd rather just listen to an audiobook or something than to worry about it. I know what's happening. And so I use that a lot for a lot of my running. I I would probably say 50% of my training is done— running training is done on that, which helps to save the joints. Yeah, absolutely.

So smart, and I'm so glad you brought that up. I had watched you, I know, knew that you used that, but that combination, just in order to— now you're getting the volume and you're getting the training, but you're getting really the best of both worlds. So we've got some protection as, as well as you get closer to a race, do you spend any more time on your feet on the ground or not? Do you keep it in balance? So you're just, you're ready to go and to spend it on the course.

I pretty much try to keep it in balance just because it would be terrible to say, oh, I have to do a 20-mile run outdoors and end up getting hurt 2 weeks before your race. So no, I do try to keep it in balance. Yes, it's true. And I know you, like you said earlier, you've seen me out there on the last miles in the dark on a run. And my run after swimming and biking is not the same as what you would see if I was going out to run fresh. There's been a little bit of energy expended before I get to that part. Understood.

I remember distinctly after a couple bikes getting off and thinking, oh, I forgot how bad this feels. Oh my gosh, what was I thinking? There is a thing the brain does for you. It's not working against you. It was for you. Yeah.

Well, you know, it It, it is fun. It, it still is very fun, and it is exciting. And having goals, I think, really motivate you and keep you excited and happy about it. You know, you look forward to, to training, you look forward to going to the races and just seeing your friends. I mean, seeing you, and I have met some of the most amazing, wonderful people going to a race. It's like a big reunion, a big party, a big celebration. And in order to get to that party, you do the homework, and then you get to go to the party and have fun.

It is so true. It's, it's such a wonderful community. It's— I think if you're on the outside looking in, you effect that this is all just elite, svelte individuals, and it's just, it's just a potluck of people just like you who had this dream or a bucket list and wanted to do it and go for it. And not necessarily to stand on a podium, but to, to do it, to finish it, to, to know that they did or could. So many, so many things, but it is the people that continues to bring you back. And the bond that you have with someone that you had just met, but they know, even though maybe family and friends could look at you and wonder, why are you doing this? Why go to that trouble? And yet, if you're now with your people, they all understand it because they, they've got that bug too. There's Yes. Something about it. So, Daxter, thank you so much for being here. I'm gonna ask you one of the toughest questions of the entire day, and that is, is there a question I should have asked you but I didn't? Is there a question that you wish I would've asked you?

No, no, I think we covered it. I mean, we, we both have an understanding of what it's like to do this sport and what it means to us and just revisiting those emotions. I'm totally excited to I get out and do my good training ride tomorrow, and I am really excited to see you in Cozumel. Hopefully I already, I'll have my spot for Kona and we can celebrate that. If not, I'll try to get it there.

Yes. Yes. And inevitably we'll be in the van riding back together, celebrating even after.

Oh yes, definitely.

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