A New WeightLoss Mindset: From Ballerina to Dietitian

Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I have a little sleep secret I want to tell you about. Look, sleep is crucial for your fitness, but it's crucial for just plain old everyday life and function. And I find I sleep great unless I have a migraine. And I've had more than my fair share since perimenopause all the way through postmenopause. My secret weapon was Blue Sky CBD sleep gels. Each gel contains 25 milligrams of CBD and 25 milligrams CBN for deep restorative sleep. Something about it helps to reduce inflammation, which I believe for me was key in helping me get to sleep. But the biggest thing is so many of the over-the-counter solutions, whether for sleep or migraines, can ruin gut health, and liver health. Neither one of those did I want to be problematic for me. So this option is recommended by healthcare providers worldwide and backed by thousands of happy customers, many of whom come from our Flipping 50 community. There is zero THC, so it's non-habit-forming. 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As a professional ballerina, she herself had a very unique relationship with food, as you might guess, and it caused her to dive deep into this and go and get her PhD. As you'll find out, that's tied to the name of her business. But if you think you eat healthy and it's something else that's causing your weight or weight loss resistance, you might be surprised to find that that statement is a red flag for some of us. Hey, this is Debra Atkinson, and there is one thing you can't do in the gym at your age, and that's get all the protein that you need. You've got to do that in the kitchen. To make it easy for myself, not only to get the protein but the fiber, the fruits and vegetables I want daily, I started drinking a smoothie a day 30 years ago. But when I realized all the junk, the sugar, and the extras that you don't want, that I don't want, hiding in most protein powders, That's when I finally caved in after years of saying I will never ever ever sell supplements. Stop skipping, skimping, and sabotaging yourself in the morning after workouts by always being prepared. Look, yep, I agree, real food first, but it's just not convenient to carry a turkey sandwich. Sometimes the protein— and don't forget the fiber— They kill cravings and they boost satiety. And you've got to make it easy to do the right thing. You can use code PODCAST for 10% off your first order at Flipping50.com today. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50. I started this podcast over a decade ago to answer questions about fitness in menopause and beyond before you knew to ask them. The goal to help accelerate your results with science and the practical application of proven protocols while living your best life. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman. And it's not just about you, but the 3 generations that you influence. My unique 40-year career, including being a university senior lecturer in kinesiology, an industry subject matter expert, and an international speaker, to founder of the first and the only exclusively made for menopause and beyond fitness membership in the world. Every week I interview experts behind the scenes and the science of optimal hormone balancing, fitness, and longevity, and share answers to our community's questions so you can have the vitality and the energy that you want, need, and deserve. Hello, hello. You are in for a rock and roll show. So topic of weight loss is a hot topic, as you might guess, for any woman in midlife. And I would say any woman, period. And actually, it starts somewhere around 6 or 7 years old. We started talking about our thighs, which is sad, so we cannot go there. But my guest today is going to shed some light for all of us Dr. Ashley Lucas is the owner, founder, and advisory for PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. She has over 15 years of education in the field of nutrition and metabolism. In her mid-20s, she retired from her professional ballet career. She went on to earn her PhD in sports nutrition and chronic disease from Virginia Tech. She was awarded the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics scholarship and completed her dietetic internship at Ohio State University. She passed the national exam registering her as a dietitian offering expert food wellness and nutrition services. Dr. Lucas is a nationally renowned speaker, columnist, and leading expert in the field of weight management and behavior change. Through a scientific method that focuses not only on the metabolic consequences of fat gain, but also on the behavioral and psychological aspects, she created and continues to innovate the PhD approach, which has helped thousands of people nationwide achieve their peak wellness once and for all. Dr. Ashley Lucas, thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure.

Okay, so you piqued my curiosity ever since we booked this. We've had a recent conversation, so it's been a pleasure, and it's a pleasure to talk to you again. But I am really curious about PhD and how that comes into your title. So talk to me a little bit about the name game here. PhD, weight loss and nutrition— what does that mean to you? Does it stand for something? Tell me a little more about Yeah.

You know, it's a play on words. One, because I have my PhD in nutrition, and also it stands for P as performance, H for health, and D is for diet. And so a lot of my work, especially when I started PhD, we called ourselves PhD Advanced Nutrition, and no one could hear the ED on the end of advanced. And people can't spell— a lot of people can't spell nutrition. So I was like, I need to change this. And so now today we are PhD Weight Loss. But everything when I started PhD was about sports nutrition and optimizing body composition. And so that's why performance, health, diet all came into play and optimizing that.

Love it. And we kind of, from your bio, understand where you come from. And I have to guess that as a ballerina, that we know that, you know, of all sports, that is probably one of the most recognized as being the more lean you are, the more thin you are, the better you are. I mean, it's in all the movies even, right, on how critical a piece that is. So what was it like for you as you were a professional ballet— even retiring in your 20s seems like those words should not be strung in the same sentence together, but what was your relationship with food?

Yeah, it was tough. You know, I started in ballet when I was a very young girl. And my body naturally didn't do what the sport required. You know, my body just physically wouldn't do it. I was told that I was fat all the time. And so I only understood, well, I need to eat less and I need to exercise more. And so I did a lot of radical things to try to drop weight. We were never given good nutrition advice. And so I counted calories like an expert bookkeeper. I remember thinking that if I eat fat, I'm going to get fat. And so I would go through days counting the grams of fat that I would consume, and my target It was, I just picked a random number. I thought maybe less than 5 grams of fat would be something healthy. And we didn't have any kind of nutrition education and eating disorders were rampant in that school. And I remember just eating candy corn for a really long period of time because it was fat-free. And I would eat it to the point where it would just like burn my throat. And I thought, well, it's fat-free, it's okay to do. So it was definitely a skewed way of living and ballet dancers are athletes. When you look at the physical demands, it's equivalent to Olympic-level swimmers.

Yeah.

And here we're trying to exist on as few calories as possible and expect our body to perform like this. So the end of my dancing career actually ended when I was in my mid-20s. I had a really fairly successful career. I danced in the opening ceremonies of the Olympics. I performed in professional ballet companies across the world, and I was selected to perform in New York City. And I was so excited, you know, every dancer's dream. So I go up there thinking I'm going to be in these once-in-a-lifetime performances. And I landed in the ER.

Oh no.

I had no idea what was going on. I thought I was having a heart attack. And after a whole bunch of tests, the doctor said, you know, you're underfed, you're overexercised. And I, I didn't look significantly lean. I, I never really hit my target. I'm leaner now than I ever was then. And he's just like, you cannot keep doing this. I had stress fractures in my feet and my low back. I was a mess. And so that was a big deal for me. It was my identity. It was my life. It was like equivalent to Michael Phelps being pulled off at the Olympics. So that was a big deal for me. And that's what pushed me into learning about this. How do we drop weight in a healthy way? How do we not just wreck our metabolism in the process? And then mentally, how do we accept that we actually need more food and that we don't have to do the extreme to allow our body to actually hit an optimal place for wellness?

I love that. Okay. So I'm going to keep going down this personal path. I think this really helps our audience members, our listeners identify with where you're at because we can talk about something so vulnerable. And you are now, we talked about this before we hit record, you are now visiting your sister, your 5-year-old is with you. And so happens to be a girl, which I actually think is also a bigger deal. And I'm sure there's a piece of you now, I'm a role model and it's like, I don't want her, or I want her to have a great body esteem and, you know, value you something other than just aesthetics. What is it like for you now? Has it been hard or do you ever default? Because if you had thoughts and beliefs for a long period of time, and we can say this to women listening in their 40s, 50s, and 60s who this is definitely true for, a relationship about dieting, a relationship about if I want to lose weight, this is what I need to do. And those thoughts don't go away even if we provide logic and intelligence that everybody can nod their head to, they don't just disappear. Where are you with that?

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, number one, I think that ballet is great. It taught me discipline and it taught me respect of like my elders and others. It taught me so many amazing things. So I don't regret being in that field at all. But anything above that, I don't know. It's just not the healthiest place to be. And that might be changing. I'm not in it anymore, so I don't know that. But I think our environment is so strong and it plays such an important role in how we think of food and our bodies and our health. And I want her to be in the healthiest environment possible. So that's the first thing. The second thing is I will never say, you know, I don't like my body or I feel fat or talk in a degrading way about my body. I don't allow myself to do that anymore. And I definitely would never speak those words in front of her. I'm very cautious and aware of like speaking positivity and affirmations into her ear. So, you know, you are perfect just the way you are. You know, you're so strong, you're so fit, you're so capable. And she sees me and she sees my husband. We lift weights every day. We have a gym downstairs. And so she's in there lifting with me. She's doing pull-ups with me. She knows that strength is important. And she's aware of food. Her favorite game is like, you know, what food is the best for me? And we'll play a different game. Like, what food's the best for you, apple juice or an apple? And She'll say an apple. That's so easy, mom. Or what's the best food for you, steak or gummy bears? She's like steak, mom. That's just so easy, you know? And she knows that she needs to eat protein first and she knows where her protein comes from. So really we're just instilling, the goal is positive outlook on her body, that being strong as a woman is important. And what is a healthy way to look at food? She eats cookies, she eats treats. I don't want her to be friend's house and just go crazy and binge on these foods she's never seen.

And that is so great. And one of the things I want to point out to everybody listening, that I hope you were doing a little maybe introspect about, you know, if your kids are grown or currently, maybe for our demographic, let's face it, a woman at 50 could have a kindergartner or she could have grandchildren. But, you know, have you done the same? I think I can look back and say potentially, you know, I had a boy and I think whatever I said had a little less impact on him and his own physicality or, or body confidence because it is different. But I know there are things that I may wish that I had done differently and that as I've become more and more aware of it. And so being sure that it's very proactive when we're talking about why we want to work out, to gain strength, to be positively healthy in order to have kids and reasons to do things like that, as opposed to how you look. I think that's so important. So I'm glad you added that. Tell me a little bit about PhD and what would you say sets you apart? What do you do differently?

A few things. So I'd say the first thing is we don't look at all foods as equal. And I know that that is difficult for, for some people to think about, you know, not saying that there's good foods or bad foods, but that phrase, eat everything in moderation. I think—

has cancer, I think.

Yes, I think so. It's a huge issue understanding that foods are addictive. And a lot of us, I think from a weight loss perspective, a lot of it is an addiction recovery process. There are some people who are just really strongly addicted to sugar and saying, well, you should be able to eat that in moderation. I think even for some people, you know, just the sugar that comes from fruits can drive that sugar addiction where they can't say no to the other foods. So I'm not saying that we shouldn't eat fruit, but for some people who have type 2 diabetes and a lot of metabolic dysfunction, if they eat a diet really high in fruit, it's keeping their insulin levels elevated. And then it continues to drive the desire for sugar and ice cream and all of these things. So I think it's really taking a step back and looking at each person individually and what are these foods that you can tolerate and what are the foods that you just have to say no to. Yeah, I think that saying no to a food is not deprivation and it's not a form of restriction. I think that it's a form of self-respect, and I feel so much better and so much more in control if I just say no to that food. For me, if I have ice cream in the house, specifically cookie dough Häagen-Dazs, I will eat the whole thing. And I don't think I'm a failure. If you look at my life, I am disciplined, I am committed, I know how that food is reacting in my body, but I can't say no to it. And I think that's okay. And I know that if I want feel my best and feel in control, I'm not going to have that food in my house. So I think that's a big thing, is we look at food from a different way. We also understand that 80% of any change comes from the mind. And so I think a lot of weight loss programs look at what you're eating, when you're eating, the science behind it. And I think a lot of folks have the science wrong. And we do that. We look at what, when, how much to eat. We're very specific. We create customized meal plans, but If you don't let go of the emotions that are tied to the excess fat weight, then I find the weight comes right back on. I look at it that the two go hand in hand. You're dropping this weight. You've also got to drop the emotions that are tied to it. If you only drop the excess fat weight, but the emotions stay where they are, I find that the weight comes right back up and they meet right back together. Whereas if you can let go of the emotions that are tied to the excess fat weight, then you're going to have a much better chance of keeping that weight off for good. So that is another thing that we tackle is the mental, emotional, the habits, behaviors. And for a lot of people, there's a lot of deep work to be done, but it's so worth it.

That was so good. So I mean, the emotional toxins, and I think, you know, many of you who've listened before have heard, I mean, we've had a lot of discussions about toxins, detoxification, and why it can make at this time in our lives We've got a cumulative effect of— let's face it, we were the generation that microwaved everything in Tupperware. We microwaved things in Styrofoam, for crying out loud. You know, we did some awful things we didn't know were awful at the time. We've had more exposure to toxins than even our kids have. And because of that, they're going in. Your body removes them from circulation by placing them in fat where they're kind of in a bubble. But that makes fat hard to lose. Your body's reluctant and to let go of it. But what you're describing is like the emotional toxins, and those are there too, stored in tissues in our bodies. And so such a great analogy. I want to ask you this, just a little pun intended, so I'm teasing a little bit, but you mentioned the ice cream. What about candy corn? Can you have candy corn now?

My diet is full of healthy fats, just like I know you suggest— protein forward, healthy fats. I understand my carb tolerance level, I don't even want those foods anymore. I've successfully broken sugar addiction, so I can say I look at that candy corn and I'm like, oh, that stuff should not exist.

You know, my food— I think I've got two of them. Popcorn is one, you know, that's a really hard one because I don't want just a little bit of popcorn and then I'll be fine. No, I want the extra large and then I'll go back for a refill. That's what we used to do. And then the other one is black bean chips. I can't have just one. So, no, it's interesting.

Yeah, you know, it's funny you say that because for me it's ice cream. For my husband, it's tortilla chips and salsa. We all are so different in what those foods are.

Yeah. Okay, so let's just talk about this. I think we can probably cover these pretty quickly because the most common myths regarding weight loss— talk about what they are to a group of women who's 50 or 60. They could probably all raise their hands and tell you, well, here's what I always used to believe, but Clearly it's not true right now because it's not working, right?

Yeah. So I would say the first one is that exercise will allow for all the weight loss to happen. We've been told that you just need to move more and eat less, but, you know, to burn just 10 pounds of fat, you would have to cycle 1,000 miles or run 350 miles. Most of us just can't do that. If we actually did that, it would increase cortisol so much. I don't think our body would allow us to drop that weight.

That's exactly right.

You know, exercise, we follow this bell-shaped curve. Doing nothing is not good. I'm not saying that, but you can hit this peak amount that I know you are so good at figuring out what is that amount for each unique individual that allows them to reach the peak benefits. And then we do too much of it and oh my gosh, we're going to see negative ramifications. For me, when I stepped away from ballet, I was like, well, I have to exhaust my body somehow. And I got into road riding and I would ride 250 miles a week. And it was just so extreme. I had my cortisol so high, I had all this belly fat and I wasn't eating a ton and I was eating a super high carb diet to try to fuel all of the riding, but it wasn't working. So exercise is very important and done in the right way, like how you suggest, for stress and mood and sleep and muscle mass and all of these things. But we need to be aware of the type of exercise we're doing and know that genetically not all of us respond to exercise through dropping weight. And another myth is that we just need to eat less. But when we look at the literature of severely restricting calories, we find anxiety, depression increases. We're at significantly increased risk of all the weight just coming back. It's not very sustainable at all. We know we can drop our metabolism, so we can do damage to the metabolism by severely restricting calories, but you can indeed get it back. There is good news there. So I'd say that's a myth, eating everything in moderation. Whenever I ask people, you know, what is the best way to drop weight, they say eat everything in moderation. I'm like, err. And then I would say the other myth is that we just need more willpower. You know, we think it's my fault. I just don't have the willpower. I'm just not as committed or I'm just not as disciplined as my lean friend. And I say that's bogus. I look at weight gain as not being your fault. It's not a flaw in personality or a lack of discipline. It's a metabolic situation that we've been given that you can overcome.

So good. And I absolutely love that you pointed this out because I think we're on the same page here. And I think with women who are 50 and 60, certainly things that we've grown up learning, this is healthy. You know, we need to take a new look at now because hormones have changed, the gut health changes, our nutritional status of soil and the vegetables we buy in the store has changed.

And what worked in the past changes, right, as our hormones change. So it could have been a perfect picture for you in your 30s and 40s, and when you compare it to your husband or your partner, it could look a lot healthier than what they're doing. Many women come in and like, well, my husband just eats like crap. I eat so much healthier, and I'm just, you know, 30, 40, 50 pounds overweight. It's just not fair. And so I can see how it looks healthy, and it could be healthy for your neighbor, but it's just not what's going to work for you right now.

Yeah, amen. Okay, so I saved the best for last. So, Ashley, I want to ask you this because I know you've got 5 steps to reset the scale. So can you give us those?

Yes. Yeah. So the first one is making sure that when you are going through the process of dropping weight, that you go all the way. So what I mean by this is that we now understand that the belly fat, we call it visceral fat. The belly fat is actually an active type of fat. These fat cells are different than the fat cells throughout the rest of the body in that they're active and they secrete hormones that help to encourage you to grow fatter and fatter as fast as possible. These fat cells secrete a hormone, an inflammatory hormone called interleukin-6, and interleukin-6 is linked to a whole host of negative health consequences like cancer and type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure and more. They mess with your hunger and full hormones, so you're going to be hungrier and you're not going to be as full. They make you feel really lazy. You're not a couch potato, but this belly fat doesn't want you to go move and expend a ton of energy and calories, and then it slows your metabolism so you really don't have to eat that much food to experience continued weight gain. I see people a lot of time come in and tell me, gosh, I just don't eat a ton, and they really don't, but they've got 50, 60 pounds of excess fat weight just holding on their frame. And so what I've found is if you only drop a portion of this excess fat weight, then you're at a very high risk of it all coming back on again. It's like shaving the top off a weed and leaving the root. So what I really encourage people to do is to find out what is that sweet spot where your metabolism is going to work the most efficient, and you're going to have the greatest chance of maintaining the weight loss. So that's the first step. The second step that I find is important is eating the right fuel. And we talked about this a bit, finding your unique carbohydrate tolerance level. I think carbs can be important. They're not the devil like we've been told that they are, but they have the most profound stimulus on how we metabolize all other nutrients. So we just need to be aware of how many can we tolerate and when should we be eating them. When we time our food is important. I think that, you know, we've got 4 macronutrients, protein, fat, and carbs. And I think we've got a 4th one and that's nutrient timing. I think when we eat is just as important as what we eat. So we need to think about that. The third one is mindset, which we've talked about. We can't drop this weight and keep it off without really tackling why we eat the way we do, how we think about food, how we think about ourselves. And so going through the process and changing our mindset around food is going to be key. We talked about the fourth one a little bit, which is overcoming addiction. Understanding that for a lot of us, not everyone, but for a lot of us, weight loss is an addiction recovery process. And recognizing that there are likely foods that you're going to say no to that just don't serve you. It's about letting go of the foods you say you love that do not love you back and being aware of that process. And then the 5th step is making sure you have support in maintenance. It's one thing to drop the weight.

Yeah.

It's a whole different process to keep the weight off. And usually we don't have support during maintenance. We think, okay, let me get a coach or a program or something and it's weight loss, but then what happens afterwards? You know, you can't take your foot off the gas pedal. Mastery never ends. This is really where we do the work and we practice the skills. And so I just making sure that as you're going, if you're going through the process, you've got some plan for maintenance. I think anytime we're in a maintenance mode, we lead to destruction. I think we always need to be in a growth mode and something that's creative that gets us going, a goal, So if you've achieved your weight loss goals, then what's next for you? What's going to keep you moving along that positive trajectory to not maintain, but to continue to grow and create? So those are the primary 5 steps I've found that help to reset the scale successfully.

Those are so good. And they are so atypical. I think most of you might have been surprised. Like, I probably should have done this at first. So this is what— this one's on me, but I should have asked. Listeners. So if you could have rhetorically written, what do you think those 5 steps would have been? My guess is the majority weren't just that, because I think this was deep into mindset. You know, much of it was mindset, not just a tangible take action. You know, it comes back to what we originally talked about, the emotional toxicity of the whole thing, and I have a good friend who's a psychologist who says we get comfortable thinking about ourselves, you know, in the way we're comfortable with. And so if you think about yourself, or you have for a long time, as somebody who's a chronic dieter, who's always been overweight, you have to say goodbye to that person. And that's challenging.

Oh yeah, it's hard. We have clients who are working with us to drop, you know, 5, 8 pounds, 10 pounds, but also 100, 200-plus. And especially for the significant weight loss, people will go through and they still— I'll talk to them and they still imagine themselves as, and they will use this word, as fat. And it just takes a lot to get out of the mindset of that person. And so I actually think one of the first steps to successfully dropping weight is to create a new identity. A lot of us say, well, I'll be like this person when, instead of Let me be this person now and be in that identity now. And it allows us to open the door for our bodies to walk into it as if it's a reality. So we need to start there. I'm so glad you mentioned that, rather than end there and try to catch up.

Okay, I'm going to ask you something that if you hung in here, this is even better. And I may be putting you on the spot, so I'm going to apologize in advance if I am. But there's the elephant in the room when we talk about weight loss right now in 2024. What are your thoughts on Ozempic?

Yeah, I can say I probably have a biased opinion because I work with thousands of people who are able to drop the weight, keep it off without hunger, without cravings, without any kind of medication. We can do this without medication. We can. And it makes me sad because I think a lot of us have lost hope. We've tried all of these things in the past and it just comes back on and we think, this is my only option. And I just want people to know that there is another option. You can do this without it. If you feel like you need to use it as a tool and use it for a short time, but learn the lifestyle behind it so you can actually be sustainable and self-sufficient, because that's the goal. My mission is to empower people to step up, better their lives, and be self-sufficient. I think that's what it's all about. But I do want people to know they can do this without being dependent on anything.

So good, so well answered. And I think I do agree that there's, you know, a part of my heart wants to go out to those people who feel like they've lost all hope, maybe have tried and failed. And I'm guessing for the majority of people that's true. They've tried and failed and tried and failed, potentially because they didn't have what you've just talked about and unpacked— the mindset and the support for the mindset and not seeing a setback as a failure, but as data. How can I get curious about that? What happened about that? And a lot of times we don't give ourselves that grace, but it's like, what do we do with it? And I think part of it is the dosing and the way it's been used. You know, I think we're seeing ways where it has been a positive and it may work for some. There are some positive things. There's actually muscle protein synthesis seems to be in the literature actually benefiting from it. However, you know, if we're not also getting these people lifting weights and we're not also teaching you when you're not on it anymore, how will you live? How will you sustain this? And Ashley, I think you're going to have a lot of followers. There's a lot of, you know, just kind of logic here. There's a lot of this resonates with me. Where can listeners find you?

Yeah, well, the best place is to check out our website, which is myphdweightloss.com. We're also on Instagram and Facebook, PhD Weight Loss, or my page specifically, which is Dr. Dr. Ashley Lucas. I post a lot of great content there, and I've got a YouTube show, Dr. Ashley Lucas Podcast. So you'll see all of that there if you follow me on social media.

Fantastic. Ashley, thank you so much for being here.

My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Thank you for listening. To listen to a decade of episodes and to get the show notes, visit Flipping50.com where you'll be able to find all the previous episodes and I made it super easy to make the most of your listening time and get exactly what you want to listen to as top priority by getting the top 10 episodes in the areas you most care about, like how much protein do you need, weight loss, and other 3 ultra-important topics we've identified as our community's top 5. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than you, midlife woman. So go and listen right now. So there you have it. In this episode, we really talked about what are the common myths regarding weight loss. How many of those did you agree? Yes, yes. Been told that, been through that, survived that. No, that's also a myth. Not truth. And we talked about certain trigger foods personally, got those all in. We talked about 5 steps to reset the scale and the uniqueness of them all really being mindset methods much more than tangible actions. And last but not least, I surprised our guest with a question about Ozempic, and I'd love to ask you that rhetorical question as I hope this has been helpful. Don't forget to head on over to the show notes, and that'll be at flipping50.com/weightlossmindset. And what are you waiting for? Let's start flipping 50 today. Do you have a question for a podcast, a question you would love to ask or maybe a story you want to tell. Did you know we have a special group just for podcast question roundups and the answers? My community coaches and I provide answers daily inside of this group, but it's also where I go when I occasionally say, okay, open call for podcast questions, or tell your story, would you like to be a guest? So if you're looking for community of women who are also interested in optimizing their health, strengthening their mindset, and looking forward to every new year, join the Flipping 50 Insiders group. That's Flipping 5-0 Insiders on Facebook.