Behind the Scenes of the Forever Young Documentary

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It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at my favorites. What are you waiting for? Good night. Hey there. I have a very special treat for you. It's a treat for me. It was very much an anomaly from a usual podcast that we might be talking longevity on any given day. This one is really about the behind the scenes of a documentary on longevity, and I talk with the filmmaker. So, I can't wait to introduce you. You're in perimenopause, menopause, or postmenopause, and you're not slowing down, you're just getting started. But the old rules don't apply anymore. The workouts that worked before, they're working against you now. The advice you've been given, incomplete at best. I'm Debra Atkinson, and I'm the founder of Flipping 50. Pioneer in fitness for women in midlife for more than 40 years. I've been in the trenches with women just like you, and for the last 12, right here on this podcast, and, and the founder of Flipping 50: The Stronger Way app and membership. Welcome to Flipping 50: The Stronger Way, where science meets strength, where you'll find the tools, research, and real talk to build the body and the life you want in your second half. Each week, you'll get evidence-based exercise and nutrition strategies, conversations with leading experts, and honest answers to the questions your doctor didn't get answers to in medical school and doesn't have time to answer in an appointment. This is your show. Let's get stronger. Hey friends, welcome or welcome back. If you are the first-time listener here to Flipping 50 the Stronger Way, I so appreciate you tuning in. And if you are a longtime listener, thanks for coming back. Today is a special treat and a little bit different. So often we'll have a primary researcher or we we will have someone who's developed a program, and often those programs come out of a story of their own and birthed out of a need and a, I wish there was this for me when I needed it. But this is called the Forever Young documentary, and I am interviewing today David Donnelly. He's the American documentary filmmaker whose work spans classical music culture technology. His award-winning debut feature, Maestro, profiled leading artists including— I'm gonna mess all of these up— Paweł Jarvi. I'm sure I ruined that. Joshua Bell, Hilary Hahn, and Lang Lang. We know that one. And was broadcast internationally. He later directed Nordic Pulse and Forte, completing a trilogy that offers an inside view of the classical music world, including including stories tied to Estonia's singing revolution. Donnelly's films have been screened at venues including the Whitney Museum and the Kennedy Center. In 2021, he co-founded CultureNet and began a documentary trilogy exploring technology's cultural impact, including The Cost of Convenience and Forever Young, which is what we're talking about today. Although he may be asked to tap into The Cost of Convenience once or He's also a sought-after speaker who's interviewed global thought leaders across more than 30 countries. I think you're gonna love this and find it really interesting, but I think you also, as a spoiler alert, will want to go and watch the film Forever Young. So by the time this podcast episode airs, it may in fact be out, but if not, the trailer will be. There also happens to be a Substack, which is where you can go and stay tuned with future blogs and podcasts and content release. He mentions in our interview, as many of you know, I'm doing this intro after we've talked, that there were more than 100 hours of film broken into a documentary that ended up being less than 90 minutes. So go figure, there's probably a lot of good stuff on the editing room floor that you and I would like to see. And there is a way if you follow them on Substack. So if you like what you see, there's that. You can watch the trailer first and find out the answer to that question. But for now, let's dive in. David Donnelly, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Well, I— and we should just be transparent with everybody in the green room. I said, this is not my usual podcast. I'm actually really excited. So We are talking about longevity, but we're talking about it through a different lens. See what I did there? Okay. So seriously, you know, I don't get to talk to very many documentary producers, people who've done the things that you're doing and looking at it from the way you are. So I want to unpack that first and then really get into what did you learn while you were doing it and, and Then personally, we'll come back to that. What of what you learned are you implementing and are you going to take to heart yourself? And we'll follow suit. But how did you get into doing documentaries in the first place? Is that something that you grew up knowing? I want to do this. I want to be in film or create, or how did that land on you?

I'll give the, the abridged version. No, I was pre-med in school and then Organic chemistry kind of persuaded me not to become a doctor. I think a lot of people like that. And then I took a film production class, and then some screenwriting classes. And then I just kind of, you know, got the bug, moved to Los Angeles immediately after graduation, and then started to make some traction there. And then the recession hit. And the market kind of was going through some pretty dramatic changes. And it seemed like it was really hard to get anything off the ground. So a lot of the projects that I was working on just kind of dried up. And then I started to become passionate about educational films. And so I started doing a lot of short educational films. We had some success with that. And from there, I made my first feature-length documentary called Maestro, which came out in 2015. And I spent several years following around the world one of the top classical music conductors. And that was a pretty amazing experience. And after that, I did two more feature-length documentaries about the world of classical music, Nordic Pulse and forte. And after that, then I pivoted to what I was feeling like was a very urgent issue, which is the merger of technology and culture. And I directed a documentary called The Cost of Convenience, which is out across platforms, about how internet platforms are kind of, you know, manipulating our lives and impacting our mental health. And this was, in many ways, kind of a continuation of just that thought process. I think like a lot of people, I started to see a lot of stuff in my feed about longevity and I became curious like, "Okay, is this real? How much of this is fake? How much of this is BS?" And so, then the kind of the investigatory part of me took over and just decided, "Okay. Well, let's see what's there." And, we went into it, I had no idea what the result was going to be. So a lot of people, when they make a documentary, they might kind of reverse engineer it. There might be an existing story, and then they kind of want to lead you to a certain place. I went into it as a skeptic. I didn't have— this was independently financed, um, you know, we didn't have any kind of agenda going into it. Uh, the first shoot that we did was at the Buck Institute for the Research of Aging, research on aging, and, um, that blew my mind. And so after that first initial 3-day shoot, I walked out of there like a believer. I was like, okay, this is, this is a real revolution. It's happening. I met all of these scientists that just really inspired me. And not only just their pragmatic approach and explaining how the breakthroughs that they were making, you know, how different that is from a lot of what we click on, which is the obsession with lifespan or living forever or trying to live to 150. And that's a different, you know, that's a different problem that people are trying to solve. That's also important, but that's not where we, that's not, that was not our starting point. And, um, that kind of started this journey. And for 3 years we traveled around the world interviewing the top longevity scientists and experts. And, uh, that led to Forever Young.

Amazing. Okay. And I think we could probably have a whole conversation about cost of convenience too, but that's, I imagine will be woven in.

So.

Tell me a little bit about what you mean in terms of longevity and there kind of being two tracks, and one is just to live as long as you can. But I think probably the one we're all interested in is living better for as long as we do live. First and foremost, would you, in, in all of what you've seen and heard and you've absorbed, it's kind of like, do you feel this way from your story? You've kind of come full circle. I mean, because you're kind of back to medicine.

Well, yeah, maybe, maybe that kind of came out a little bit, or maybe it's a midlife crisis. I don't know. I think, I think it's important to distinguish between healthspan and lifespan. And we're not having a big enough conversation about that. I think as far as just that's not something that a lot of people still can understand that these are two different, two different things. Healthspan is pretty much just trying to live more years, quality years, functional years. With your loved ones to where, you know, you're mentally still in good shape, you're physically in good shape, you're still mobile, you're still independent. And because, I mean, if someone has dementia and they're living longer, that's not the same thing as not having that. Or if you're somehow immobilized because of injury, or if you're constantly dealing with, you know, these various forms of chronic illness. Lifespan is what we hear a lot about, and people get the clips of the, the people trying to live forever. And lifespan is really more of a species issue. A lot of the scientists feel like that the cap as a species that we currently know is 122 years-ish because of this French woman who was 122 years old. Um, we don't have kind of in modern history an example of somebody living longer than that. So that's kind of like the human species expiration date. So that's what a lot of people consider as lifespan. So, the people that are trying to push lifespan are trying to extend that. And that requires a lot more than just environmental interventions. That's when we start getting into gene editing, epigenetic reprogramming, when we're starting to talk about starting the singularity, which I'm sure we've heard about, the merger of digital technologies and our bodies because that requires kind of to redesign the machine that is our human bodies. And so, that's a different— that is a different conversation and it's also a different goal. What I find really inspiring is the healthspan because a lot of what we know are things that we can apply to our day-to-day lives. And also, a lot of the— what are becoming longevity drugs are drugs that already exist. So, there is so much progress that is happening on a daily basis fueled by AI, of course, because they can run virtual experiments that we couldn't have done before that would have taken years and years. But also because the fundamentals, the things that we've already known that are good for us— sleep, diet, exercise, social connectivity— now that we've got these biomarkers, which are ways to quantify and measure how our body is changing and aging, we can actually see the impact of these different interventions. And that is relatively new. And so, that to me is a huge breakthrough, just the biomarker revolution and what that led to because now we can measure all of this different stuff. And as a result of that, you're seeing kind of an explosion of concrete steps and things that we can do to increase our healthspan. And of course, on top of that, there's lots of growth and the new drugs that are coming out as well as treatments and everything else. So, it's— It is an overwhelming kind of information that's coming out on a regular basis. And that's why we wanted to make the film so we can kind of distill it down into 90 minutes. And then people can kind of start their own longevity journey. And hopefully it inspires some curiosity and lays down kind of, this is where we are, this thing is real. Here's where we are, here's where we might be, and here's what you can do about it. Um, and so that's, uh, that was kind of the starting point. Um, and we had more than 100 hours of footage. So what you see when you watch the film is only 88. So there's a lot more to the story than what's there.

Okay. So starting a documentary, and you start one, you know what you're doing. Is there a— here's our hope, a viewer will, somebody who watches this will, what's the end of that sentence? What do you want to happen?

Rethink what it means to be healthy. That's what I think the core thesis is, that every revolution changes what it means to be human in some way. Transportation— suddenly the world was smaller. You could fly to somebody and see different parts of the world. Internet— the world was digitally smaller. Now you can connect with people virtually. What's happening now is that we're really redefining what it— what health means. For example, if you get your blood work done, still the way that most people are interpreting that data is, you know, it's based upon a scale and an average. But especially in America, you know, normal blood work probably means sick. And we have this— so there's a whole new paradigm and a way of thinking when it comes to our longevity, which— and it's not just about living longer. It's also just about living better. And I think that was kind of the big shift, was understanding that we have to rethink everything as a result of this. We have to— and it's happening so fast, it's kind of hard to keep up. And that's why we really wanted to make the film, because there's a gap between the science and the public. And there's so much information that's out there that is transformative, that is the result of really heroic efforts by scientists that rarely get the kind of spotlight because they're not social media experts and influencers. They're, they're, they're digging in and just doing the work. And we wanted to shine a light on some of that amazing work. And there's a lack of trust too, especially because there's been some, a lot of mishaps in this space and a lot of Often people are jumping the gun a little bit and then they have to walk things back. And hopefully the film can reestablish some of that.

What's the climate? Do you have any idea? So I know you were talking to experts who are probably very excited about what they're doing because they spent so, so darn much time doing that, that small thing. But what about consumers? Do you have a sense of, do people still fear aging, or do they want to live longer? Why is it, you know, I think right now we're, we're chasing every pill, cream, you know, I would like to get rid of these crow's feet and these little here and there. I mean, we are, we do fight it, and we still, I think we claim that we're making progress. And, you know, I'll tell anybody how much I, my age is, but You know, when I see wrinkles on my face, I'm like, gosh, I wish my lighting was better. If you're supplementing to help your muscle, your strength, your aging— for decades, the gold standard supplements for muscle performance have been protein and creatine. But there's another piece of the puzzle most people overlook. A lot of people think, I can willpower and discipline and do the strength training, and that alone will help. But these things rest on a deeper biological foundation, which is your cellular energy system. And at the center of that are mitochondria. They're the tiny little energy factors inside of your cells. And muscle cells are especially energy demanding, and they contain thousands of mitochondria. But without energy, muscle can't perform. Here's the problem: as we age, this gets worse. Mitochondrial function naturally declines. That impedes the one thing most important for results in women over 40, and I believe that is recovery. Most women are willing to do the work. We're disciplined, we're motivated to get results, but we don't recover as well. You know the stats. Muscle loss begins for us at about 30. We lose 3 to 8% of muscle unless we're not— unless we're doing something to counteract it. But most people try to solve it with more, more workouts, more frequent, more longer, heavier. But truly supporting the cellular machinery underneath muscle and energy production is just as important. Introducing Mitopure. Timeline developed Mitopure, a supplement containing urolithin A. Urolithin A supports cellular process called mitophagy. Mitophagy helps the body remove damaged mitochondria. Recycle cellular components, and support healthier mitochondrial function. It helps your cells produce energy more efficiently. Yes, please. Look, in one study taking Mitopure, participants experienced 12% improvement in muscle strength in 4 months with no change in exercise. The Future of Health your muscle health, and your overall health and aging. It's not just building muscle, it's powering muscle at the cellular level. Higher quality muscle is the goal. Timeline's clinically proven formula is now available at a new lower price. Mitopure now starts at $99 with the exact same formula and science. And my listeners can still get 20% off when you go to timeline.com/Flipping50Show. What's the climate out there right now, do you think, about aging? Do we fear it? Do we welcome it?

What, uh, I was really surprised by the different kinds of people that have been showing up to our screenings. Um, that caught me off guard. We had two sold-out screenings for our premiere at the Mill Valley Film Festival, which we won Best Audience Award for Active Cinema, which was last October, and it was It was a lot of people with all the different questions that we were getting. I think that there's a curiosity that is definitely— that's there across the board. People are just curious about what's actually happening. You know, even if they're skeptical, if they're on the fence, they still kind of want to know, is this thing for real? I think that just kind of initial curiosity exists. I also think that, that there's an existential crisis that's occurring, and that's why there's so much mixed, mixed feelings and mixed emotions about all of this. And that is the fact that most people are very much just hungry for human connection. And that's also why in the film, that's a big part of it. Um, Dr. Sarah Centeno, who's in the film, is a psychiatrist, says that our relationships should be the fifth vital sign. Um, it has— it's just as important as blood pressure and heart rate and temperature and That's definitely something that people are more hungry for. And so, I think there's certainly people out there that are like, "Well, why would I want to live longer?" if they're not having the kind of life right now that they might want. And most of that has to do with connection. It's also why people that have connection, for example, in the Blue Zones, you see a lot of that does have to do with community. And so, this conversation has many layers. If we don't get to the core of why would we want to live longer, we have to ask other questions. You know, it's not just can we live forever or can we live another 20 years? The question has to all be, can we create a world where people do want to live forever? That's something that is not getting enough attention. You know, can we design communities where people want to live longer? Can we, can we reduce the anxiety and depression that is at historical highs? Because if we don't solve those problems, we're just going to have a bunch of miserable people who are living longer. So it's true. Yeah, and that's not, you know, that's not, that's not such an exciting thing to look for. And I think a lot of people do, they, they do have those thoughts and back and forth. And that's why we do have this, this, um, you know, kind of the core of the film is, well, what does it mean to be human and how this is redefining that and challenging those basic premise of, of, of what it does mean to be alive right now and finding hope and optimism and our current situation.

So what is longevity science getting right and where might pop culture and our Instagram timeline get it wrong?

I think longevity science is getting right the fun— the return to the fundamentals. I think they're getting that right. I mean, just the basics of diet, exercise, sleep, and social connectivity. Um, there we now know that, you know, your genes are not your destiny. That's a very important thing that I learned that I find incredibly inspiring. You know, your parents don't have great genes. It doesn't mean that you're screwed. You can still do all these things to still change your life no matter how old you are, to immediately to start taking action. It also, I think they have learned a lot and you do see at least a lot of the people that are in our film, they are publishing without overpromising. The problem is that when we say longevity, you know, a lot of the stuff that people are reading about aren't even from real, aren't from scientists per se. The, the, the science itself, the longevity science, um, I think often gets confused with social media influencers, you know, like I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist. I'm not gonna tell somebody if they should be taking peptides or not, you know? Yeah. But there are things that, you know, that, that we do know that are important, like getting your blood work done regularly and, you know, rethinking what those results mean. And, you know, and that a, a 30 minutes of walking a day reduces your chances of chronic illness like cancer by 30 to 40%. Those things anybody can, can talk about without having to be a medical professional. And I think that's that— I think what we're getting wrong is still the communication aspect of it. That's the hardest part because the science— if a lot of the breakthroughs that we talk about they're not just posting every time there's an advancement in that, you know. And so there's still all this pressure to get clicks because you have to get funding and you have to get press. And because of the kind of the digital environment that we live in, there's so much pressure for these scientists to kind of find ways to get attention because they need funding to do this work. Um, I think that still is, is a challenge. And as a result, I think that you see some people getting it wrong who are also, I would say, the pseudoscience, which still a lot of people doing great work in that space, but that are putting out a lot of information without having necessarily the ability to having done that research themselves, or maybe the misaligned incentives. I think that's probably the biggest I think what they're getting wrong is that if somebody is selling supplements, then, you know, maybe you shouldn't be listening about how great that supplement is if they're selling you that supplement. I guess— sorry, it took me a while to get to that, but I think that's, that's probably it. It's the— what they're getting wrong is the misaligned incentives. In order to regain the trust of the public, there— I think there has to be, you know, a better dialogue. And there's still, I think, a PR issue. And also the best A lot of these scientists, they, they simply aren't, um, you know, going to be in front of the camera all the time because they're doing the science, right? And, and so, um, I think that a lot of the people in the sector are going to have to have more media training and be more present, um, which isn't something that maybe they would have had to think about in the past or when they went into the field. Yeah, so that's— that is definitely a change, and I think that's probably the— a big challenge that that the field is facing. But I think they're rising to it. We already are starting to see, uh, a lot of names starting to do more appearances. Um, I think realizing how essential it is to, to develop this relationship with the public.

Yeah, I totally agree. And just to some of our listeners who are very familiar with, say, Dr. Stuart Phillips, who's talking constantly about longevity and muscle resistance training, protein, Dr. Abby Smith Ryan, I think they are really stepping up because in part, they don't like what they've seen from influencers saying things that potentially are misleading for people and taking them down a path that this hasn't been proven. Let's give people the facts at least and, and help it be as inclusive of getting active and started in the first place than, than exclusive and it being complicated. So just one example.

Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's exactly, uh, that— I think that's totally, totally accurate.

So let's talk about community again. I mean, this is a big one. I think we, we enjoy community. We've really started a membership, and part of it is so that you're in here, you're talking to people who are just like you, maybe about topics that you don't talk about with even your best friend necessarily, because it's not all that comfortable. Community is so big. And yet I think, again, coming back to maybe overlap with your, you know, economy of convenience and what is that costing us, we're so— I think we feel connected with social media and/or compulsive about it and obsessive about it. But it, it ends up for most people not making them feel better, feeling worse and comparing themselves and feeling behind somehow. Because we all know, I think down deep, social media is not necessarily real, or only— we're only seeing somebody's best day, their A-game. We're not seeing the rest. So talk about isolation, loneliness. Where does this come into play with longevity?

So, um, Dr. Thomas Lewis, who is in many ways kind of the heart of the film, who is a psychiatrist, um, and a neuroscientist— he's the also the author of a book called A General Theory of Love, which is amazing— um, he talks about a mechanism called limbic resonance. And limbic resonance, a biofeedback, uh, mechanisms in our bodies, it's an open loop. And when you're in an environment where you're looking at somebody in the eye, they're looking at you, and you're next to them, and there's a moment of vulnerability and exposure, this is an evolutionary mechanism to build trust. And it also, we now know, has all of these benefits to our, to our body. It reduces stress. It literally keeps our body in balance and in check. And so this idea of limbic resonance cannot be replicated digitally. So it is a— it's an exchange. It's a reaction that occurs between two humans, and in many ways it keeps us alive. And when we don't have that in our lives, and when we're trying to find it in different ways, that loop doesn't get, uh, closed. You know, I mean, the loop closes rather. And so we, we're not getting the benefits of having that interaction that, you know, our bodies have evolved to reward us by having, because you used to have to be able to trust people, uh, in order to survive. And so this is something that we're wired to have this human interaction. If we don't get that in our day-to-day lives, And we become isolated, as we learn in the film, that loneliness is the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes per day. Loneliness is literally killing people. It is costing lives. Uh, I believe it's the plague of our era, and that has to have, if not more, just as much attention as all these other issues and problems that we're trying to solve. And it's a really hard one. So, you know, it's not like we present some kind of brilliant solution to solve the crisis. But from a science perspective, from what we've learned, it, it is very much when you have a healthy relationship with others, not just intimate or with a partner, but also to just in your community, with family, with friends. It, it very much keeps us alive and it needs to be prioritized just as much as diet and exercise and everything else. And that's, that's one of these paradigm shifts that just has to somehow get into this common knowledge canon of, you know, of our day-to-day priorities. And we're not there yet. But I hope that people start to kind of wake up to this.

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Yeah, that's a really interesting question. And I do think about this a lot. And we have a lot more stuff that we recorded that didn't make it into the film on that topic. One of the greatest fears in countless surveys that people have in their older years is dying alone. So we know that what kind of death you have is not created equal. And how you project that experience. So if you're surrounded by loved ones, then you might not fear death as much as if you think that you're going to die alone, which is just so tragic that that is the number one of the number one things that people fear the most, more than anything else. Um, but death itself, um, I think You know, in the past, we've— there's been, you know, outlets to kind of answer those questions. But we also now have a decline in religion, and we have a decline in a lot of the humanities and philosophy and the arts where we would explore these kind of topics. And so I think people are very curious about it, as we've always been since the beginning of, you know, since the origin of our species. Um, but there's a death doula who we interviewed who's in the film. Um, she's in the UK, Katie Rose, and Um, I think that work she does is so inspiring. And, um, a lot of the exercises that we also now know, um, from Dr. Lewis, who's a neuroscientist, um, if you think about or imagine your death as part of a meditation, the benefits of doing that can actually be really good for, um, lowering stress and for your overall sense of happiness. Um, it sounds very morbid, a death meditation, but the concept is to pull back and to imagine yourself at this point. And instead of this thinking of this as the end, you realize that there's been, you know, billions of humans that have been born and died and that right now we're the small fraction of people, very, very small fraction in the pie chart of people that are alive right now. And if we think about it in that kind of perspective, then we realize that we're, we're a part of something bigger than ourselves. And that is so important to have that sense of purpose and meaning. And we can find that by having these deliberate attempts to change our perspective. And as a result of that, it also creates gratitude and creates a sense of peacefulness. Um, and it's something I've been trying to do, uh, a little bit, a little bit more. And, and it's, it sounds, I know, I know it's kind of a hard sell, but the, the, it is to have a philosophy and an understanding of, of, of this and an acknowledgement of it. Um, is something that, you know, everyone has to have their own philosophy on what life and death means. Whether that is found in science or religion or wherever it is. Um, I think that's gotta be part of people's journey to longevity is to establish the philosophy and, and find out for yourself. But it is pretty amazing when we start to imagine that we're living through this revolution in this period in human history. Um, and that despite all the chaos and the madness, that there's also so much beauty and hope and optimism that's out there. And I hope when people experience the film that they'll, they'll see a glimpse of that.

What have you done differently, or how have you been changed by all of those hours of interviewing people?

Oh, I've, I've done a, I'd say like a 180 in the last 2 years, I think, probably last year and a half.

Okay, spill it.

Yeah, well, I mean, just my health. I mean, I think being around all of these, I mean, I had the benefit of, you know, of getting to know a lot of the people that were involved in the film. And so as a result, I had access to them. And, you know, these aren't just people that are kind of telling you, you know, they're trying to just to get their name out there. These are people that really live and believe in the work that they're doing. And so, you know, I was kind of getting nudged, hey, like, you know, you need to, you know, you're still young, you need to get out there and get your bloodwork done. And, you know, you need to really take this seriously. There's this thing called the aging cliff that a couple times throughout our lives right now, it's around in your early 40s and also in your early 60s, your body disproportionately ages. And if you don't prepare for that, then you're going to be behind the game a little bit as you get older.. And so, a lot of people wait and, and it's too long and then they're, they're behind a little bit and they've gotta fight that onset of aging and the results that happen of inflammation and chronic illness. And so I got my blood work done and I'm like, I, I, you know, I was going to the gym and I was like, oh, you know, I'm fine. Then if you get it evaluated from a perspective of longevity instead of just what the results come up and looking at these boxes as normal, I realized that I was nowhere near what I should be for, you know, living a much better life. And so, I implemented a lot of what we talk about in the film and I started to take it more seriously. And since then, I mean, really noticed dramatic results and not just physically or, you know, blood work, but also too in just my mood and my outlook, I think. I also realized that my lifestyle traveling around the world for 15 years had really caught up to me. You know, I think I had done like 40 countries in 10 years and was really still living like I was 25. And I think my body was trying to tell me, "Hey, you need to— you probably need to slow it down a little bit and start to pay attention to me a little bit more." And so, I've made some pretty big changes in that side of things as well. But, Yeah. I mean, I, I've now, I'm now a believer that the stuff that the, as far as the hard science, um, is very revolutionary in its approach. Um, and that so much of this is about delaying the onset of aging. Um, you know, not just trying to live forever or live to 150, but there's so much great stuff out there now. That's just about, you know, how do you, delay that onset to where, you know, you're less likely to get sicker in your 60s, and maybe that happens now in your 80s, and that's time to spend with your loved ones. And, you know, obviously the younger that people start, I think the better chance that that'll happen, especially as the technology and the treatments and the drugs continue to advance. But I really was inspired by the people that I met along this journey. When you hang out with somebody like our film's producer, Dr. Johnson, who's a retired plastic surgeon, a biotech investor, who's in his late 70s. And, you know, I'm working out with him and he's in great shape. And, you know, he's doing a 3-minute plank, which you can see some of that in the movie. Um, it's, it's, it completely redefines what it, what it means to me to be aging, you know, that he's active and, you know, and he's traveling around with us and it's, and and has become someone who's a friend and someone I look forward to talking to and hanging out with. I couldn't have imagined that 5 years ago. I found it incredibly inspiring. Certainly, where I'm from, that's not how I imagined creeping up on 80 would look like. And so, to me, that kind of is a whole new world for, wow, that's actually kind of a— that makes a big difference on what a potential future could look like.

Yeah, yeah. I think we're living in a moment in time where there, there are all kinds of 50-year-olds, there's all kinds of 70-year-olds or 80-year-olds. Yeah. Do you want to pick the ones to be around as examples? For sure. Carefully, I want to come back to something you said, those two cliffs, you know, that happened. Is there an exact age? It's 30-something, like 34-ish, is that I think it's early '40s and early '60s. But can we make those cliffs little molehills, or are they going to happen?

This is like— this area needs a lot more research. You know, like I said, I'm not a scientist or a doctor, but there's been a lot of studies on it. If you just, you know, look up the Asian cliffs. But I think the concept is like there's some kind of like evolutionary reproductive, you know, things that are shifting. So that's also why as a male, like your testosterone drops so much as soon as you hit like your early 40s. If your body doesn't think that you're gonna be reproducing, then it starts to accelerate the aging process. But if you fight against it, then it's not gonna be as impactful than if, you know, you kind of face it unprepared. But something as simple as that, knowing that you're in your 40s, especially with other millennials that are out there, It's like, that's pretty— that's important information because I think a lot of people, regardless of their success, they're really not taking— they might not be taking their health as seriously until something— until they start getting the red flags because they think, "Oh, I don't gotta deal with it right now." And, had I not made the film, then I would be right there. And so, hopefully that we can start to— inspire some, inspire some change.

What do you think, based on what you've learned about some of the blood tests that'll come back and give you, here's your biological age, how accurate are those? Are those valuable?

Uh, I don't know, because the science on that is still— because there's their products, um, you know, I mean, what we do know is that Dr. Steve Horvath, who's in the film, Who is considered the godfather to biomarkers. He created what's called the Horvath clock, which is, uh, measures your DNA methylation. So what it does is it can change how your DNA is evolving over time. And so that's one method of measuring your age, but that's, that's unlikely to be what you're going to get just by one of these, um, by, by something that you're getting, you know, um, blood work in on, because that's a more kind of. It's more of an advanced test. I think there are ways to measure that, but there's the psychology of aging, there's lifestyle, sense of community. How do you measure all that? You know, I think there's a lot of things we still have no idea how to quantify.

So you're, you're a parent. So has anything that you've learned changed the way you're parenting?

Um, uh, my daughter is pretty healthy and her mom is incredibly healthy. So I think I was the one that's, uh, I think they're just pretty happy that I've maybe caught up to, you know, what they already knew. So, um, in that case, I think I was probably, uh, you know, the other way around on that one. But, um, I think something as simple as going for walks after dinner when we can is a nice habit to get into as a kid, because those kind of habits, when you establish— I mean, um, I think are important. That's not something that I think— it's a lot of this is so much as culture. Yeah, that, that impacts this. Um, uh, a striking statistic is that, um, in the United States, your zip code is one of the strongest indicators of your, of your life expectancy. So, um, if you're where the Buck Institute is, which is Marin County, which is one of the wealthiest per capita parts of the world, um, you know, you're living on average almost 10 years longer than if you're like 10 miles away. So pretty much from those kind of areas, as you get further away, Um, you know, your life expectancy is dropping and that's pretty wild. But, um, yes, of course it's wealth which is driving that, but it's the results of the wealth, which is how the communities are designed. There's healthy food stores everywhere. You see people on bikes, there's tennis courts. Um, the weather and the climate is year-round for outdoor activity. You know, it's like, so there's lots of more, it's, it's, it's, it's not just, it's the, uh, it's of course the wealth is, is, is the very much influences that. But like I said, it's the results of that, because a lot of the blue zones are not wealthy places. So there are ways to design these communities to where, um, a lot of it has to do with the, with culture and environment. But I think it's important that people are aware of those things. Um, and that's, that's something that all that also has to— we do bring some awareness to longevity and equity. Um, I do have a pretty strong philosophy on that now. Um, at first I was really thinking, okay, like we could have been a whole movie on, you know, are there going to be two separate species of humans in the near future? Some that are, you know, like, um, Elysium, the Matt Damon movie, to where it's like all these things that can save people's lives are on, you know, they live on, they live on the outskirts of Earth, and then pretty much everyone else is, is living in misery on, on the planet while the, the, the elite are getting the special treatment far above. But based upon what I've seen and also a lot of the data, the technology and the treatments that exist and the billions of dollars it takes to do a lot of this research, there is a period to where people are getting access to it earlier than other people. You know, you look at something like Prenuvo to where you can get a scan that doesn't cause any radiation or contrast dye, but it's several thousand dollars a pop, right? Yeah. Well, their whole point is to make as much money as possible. And so, the idea is that it's going to eventually get down to where more consumers can use it because that's how they scale. And that's not, you know, a moral or an ethical argument, but that is what we've seen time and time again. Everyone has cell phones, even if it's a burner phone or something else. Cell phones have become ubiquitous. And the hope is that we can democratize longevity in the same way. But we've got a long way to go for that as well.

Well, thank you so much for the work that you've done. Can you mention where can they— I know there's a trailer now. Where can they get their hands on the documentary and read the whole thing or watch the whole thing? Sure.

Yeah. People can go to foreveryoung.film. They can watch the trailer. They can also there sign up for our subscription Um, like I said, we had more than 100 hours of footage and a lot of people, when they watch the film, they just have a lot of questions. And so, um, we have the Forever Young Substack to where we are, uh, answering questions. We do all kinds of amazing interviews and we are dropping articles multiple times per week to let people continue their longevity journey wherever they may be.

And so based on this and the work that you've done most recently, what's next?

For you? Right now, I'm focused on trying to maximize the, the impact and get as many people as possible to know about the film because I really believe in it. Um, it's also very personal to me. You know, I come from a place that I feel like if they had access to this kind of information and knowledge and, um, what's possible with just these changes in lifestyle that it, it would, it could really change people's lives. And, um, that's what we're trying to do is to spread the word.

So good. So great to have you here. Thanks so much. Congrats on the documentary. Can't wait to watch it.

Thank you. And thank you so much for having me.

The information shared on Flipping 50: The Stronger Way is for educational and informational purposes Is only. only not intended as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult your physician or qualified healthcare provider before beginning any exercise program, making changes to your diet, or adjusting any medications or supplements. Individual results may vary. Debra Atkinson and Flipping 50 are not responsible for any injury or adverse outcomes resulting from information presented on this podcast.