Everything You Didn’t Know About Your Menopause Gut Health (and Need to)

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Holy gut health. Look, I've had gut health experts on. We've talked about a lot of things on gut health, microbiome, about coffee, about food sensitivities, about what you can do about inflammation. But we got really into the weeds in this one, but not in a way where you're going to be turned off by all the science. I think actually, in fact, you're going to be turned on by it. So I want you to join me here because there's some surprising things that we got into on this Everything You Didn't Know About Your Gut Health. Your menopause gut health is about to get a booster shot. This episode is ripe with information about probiotics, digestive enzymes, paraprobiotics, by the way, your immune system, food sensitivity, and so much more. You will want to hear what we have to say about dairy. It's geeky and really tells you nothing is without question. Question everything. Stay till the end and I'll share the digestive enzyme that I've been now using for exactly 3 months, and it's been 100% different than anything else I've ever used. In a good way, and I'll tell you why, or my guest will, because I've asked. You don't have to be sick frequently to want to buff up your immune system, though that's the obvious. My guest shares surprising signs that your immune system is in need of a better workout this year. What signs exist even if a woman isn't sick or says she doesn't catch colds or the flu and feels a little stoic that she never even gets a flu shot. The immune system isn't functioning as well as it needs to, potentially, and we share the science in this episode. This episode, by the way, is brought to you by the Flipping 50 Menopause Fitness Specialist and Fitness Marketing Academy, where we don't just have a course for health coaches and fitness trainers. It's a business. We show you how you too can go from zero to six-figure months, and I'll give you the code to get in even though we may be closed. So click the link in the show notes today and you'll learn more about that. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50. I started this podcast over a decade ago to answer questions about fitness in menopause and beyond before you knew to ask them. The goal: to help accelerate your results. With science and the practical application of proven protocols while living your best life. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman, and it's not just about you but the 3 generations that you influence. My unique 40-year career, including being a university Senior Lecturer in Kinesiology, an industry subject matter expert, and an international speaker, to founder of the first and the only exclusively made-for-menopause and beyond fitness membership in the world. Every week I interview experts behind the scenes and the science of optimal hormone-balancing fitness and longevity and share answers to to our community's questions so you can have the vitality and the energy that you want, need, and deserve. Stephen Wright is in the house. Thank you so much for joining me.

Yeah, thanks for having me, Debra. I'm excited.

All right, first of all, I, I have to tell everybody I love this title, Health Engineer. Which I think we should all kind of wear a suit of armor kind of around that for ourselves and be our own health engineer or advocate at the very least. But I'd love to know a little bit more background about you. How did you get here? Because so many times a practitioner who really is passionate in pursuing something got here because it's your own story. You solved some kind of problem for yourself or maybe for somebody that you love. What was it for you?

Yeah, it's, it's me. It's my journey started when I was a baby and, you know, there's, I had a, I was born with a hydrocele hernia. So my intestines were kind of already trapped and pinched when I was born and needed modern medicine to make it. And I almost didn't make it. And, you know, couple that when I grew up in the antibiotics for everyone generation. And so there's a lot of, you know, contributing factors to fast forward. I'm graduating from college and my family has nicknamed me the gas man. And that's when your aunts and uncles and your cousins have identified you as the stinky one. That's not good to start with because they probably have a family history of IBS as well. And then I'm working as a consultant at that point in time in Chicago in a high-rise. And if you've ever worked in that situation, usually there's only one bathroom. There's not a lot of places to go. You can't just run outside. And I was having visceral hypersensitivity IBS after every meal. And so basically my stomach would bloat up like you see on Instagram, those influencers. And I would—

a lot of women here will say, or like me right now. So yes.

Yeah. Yeah. It was real for me. And it didn't matter if I ate chicken salad or burgers and beers, because at the time I was like 240. I was solidly overweight. I was having panic attacks for the first time in my life, anxiety, depression, exercise-induced asthma. You know, I was a cluster of symptoms, but my pain point was every day I ate. And then I would bloop. And then the only way to get the pain to go away to be a fart, but then I'd be crop dusting my entire office and then they complained to my boss. So one day my boss and I had a little conversation.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. And there's all kinds of, you know, commuter bus, sad stories and having to clean my suit at work and accidents and all kinds of things. But that moment of being confronted with my job around my belly was like a big deal. And so that was, what drove me into action, I guess. And unfortunately, or fortunately at the time in Chicago, the 3 doctors I saw were like, yeah, you have family history of IBS. You're not that sick kid. Just suck it up. You can have all the antibiotics you want, which I was already anti-antibiotics because I had taken them for acne and I ended up in the hospital because I passed out at work from basically Bifidobacteria overgrew in my entire track because I was on back cramp DS for 4 years. So, you know, I have all these weird, crazy things that happened to my gut. And at this moment in time, the doctors are like, you should eat more whole grains. This is 2008, 2009. Take Metamucil and just suck it up, kid. And that didn't really work. And so my buddy from college had started a new diet. He was celiac, but he wasn't getting help from a gluten-free diet. And so he stumbled upon the specific carbohydrate diet and a naturopath, and they kind of coupled together to help him with his diarrhea.. And he was like, dude, you gotta just suck it up and do this. And I was really not a cooker back then. I could make, literally cook chicken breast and pizza and toast. That was pretty, that was like my baseline. And this specific carbohydrate diet, you're making everything from scratch, no processed food at all. You're not eating out. And so I was in enough pain that I started that, and within 7 days, probably 50% of my bloating pain was gone. And that was my awakening that I could have control. I could do something about this. And all that embarrassment, all that shame, all that anger was just focused in a new direction. And so then it became just a nonstop, just reading journals, reading books, ended up, you know, training with Kalish at the Functional Medicine Institute, having a clinic for a little while. And all along the way, it was just, you know, at the beginning, it was just, how do I get out of pain? How do I eat food again? Which meant I was on this elimination diet. I started supplements very early, like HCl, betaine HCl, and some enzymes and probiotics really early. They all helped. But then, it was quickly— I'm a hedonist at heart. And so, it was quickly like, "Wait, why can't I have dairy? Why does dairy swell my nasal passages up? When do I get to have fun again and eat sugar again? And why do I still have acne even though I'm doing this elimination diet and everyone says I shouldn't have it? And how come I still have these random episodes of visceral hypersensitivity pain?" And so, I'm of the weird ways in which I just can't stop trying to unravel these mysteries. And so that's, you know, going on 15 years now of trying to solve my own issues. And then when it makes sense to me with both clinical evidence, personal experience, and then there's science behind it, I like to tell the world about it. And so that's looked like articles, programs over the years, and then the last 5 years creating supplements that I need. Like, I mean, yeah, I, I hope to help the world, but also I just hope to be able to enjoy my life and my family's life and have the best health possible.

Wow, what a story. That was worth the bang for asking, for sure. Like, I, and I feel bad for you. That was a lot. That was so, so much. And I want to unpack a lot of this, you know, in terms of— love your questions. I love the challenging question that you're asking is Well, wait a minute, when do I get to eat dairy again? Because I think there's probably a lot of my listeners are here and they're like, but I like dairy. And, you know, and there's this, okay, but is it causing your joints to be achy and painful and you don't have to, or is it causing you to break out, or what is going on? I mean, so what is the bottom line on that? I mean, that's a big opening question right there. Talk to me about dairy.

I think dairy is significantly more possible for the majority of the population than, say, gluten. So I would say that dairy is simpler. You really only have to worry about casein, whey, and lactose, and you can solve those with supplements usually. And then of course you have your quality concerns, like are you getting a grass-fed dairy or are you just going to eat conventional dairy? But the, the underlying question is any food, including kale, including strawberries, including beef, can be inflammatory, toxic, and a burden on your body. And so dairy is just on that spectrum as well. It just— dairy tends to be more inflammatory than, say, blueberries, kale, and beef. And so the question is not, is the food right or wrong? The question is really, is your body capable or not capable? And if you can get your body capable through through functional medicine, through lifestyle choices, through supplementation. Like for me, I will never live a life without supplements. Like I passed on my days of being the idealistic granola hippie where I might be able to live in this world and not need quote unquote support. That ship has sailed for me and my understanding of our environment and the lifestyles we're choosing. But what opens on the, you know, when one door closes, another opens. What opens on the other side of that for me is this possibility that we can rebuild our paradigm of supplements and lifestyle factors to be with our food again and not necessarily have to be on these elimination diets forever. That's if your body can handle it.

Well, let me give you another specific example on dairy, and you did not know I was going to come at you with this, but you're just the perfect guy to talk to about this. And then I've got a whole list of other questions, but You know, when we talk dairy, number one, for a lot of the women who are eliminating it, we're also eliminating protein, and which is the catch-22, because one of the things we're trying to do is get them to make protein easy to put in their diet and eat as real food, whether rather than have to take supplements. And then if you do have to take a supplement, it would be so much better if it had a high amount of leucine in it, like a whey protein, which is the dairy. So it's like, well, is it worth doing that in order to get this, or, you know, where's my risk-reward ratio at for any given woman?

So, I mean, talk to me if you want to get real, real, like real, real.

Yeah, I do.

Yeah, let's, let's get all kinds of real, real. So I'm a hedonist. I love all foods. I definitely eat sugar and gluten during the holidays and wine and those things.

My audience just fell in love with you.

Yeah, and I supplement like crazy, so I spend a lot of money to try to offset all of those choices.

So you supplement a lot in order to have the lifestyle you want? Correct.

Okay, correct. So just know that about me. That's my frame, and I don't like to be told no.

Even if I do the same thing in that, say I go for a walk in order to have my caffeine in the morning because otherwise my blood sugar spikes.

Like, okay, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. So I'll take like, you know, 6 Holozymes if I'm gonna have some gluten or dairy or, you know, wine or something. If I know I'm going to compromise myself. I try to support myself. Got it. So that being said, I too am on the protein train. I too have carried some COVID weight and some stress weight. Like there's some intense stressors in my life right now that are personal. And that is, as much as I'd like to be this ripped six-pack influencer, that's not me. And so protein is high on my list.

I would take 4.

4 abs? Yeah. I've never even seen 4. I would like 2. So I introduced that high protein Greek yogurt, like, I don't know, 6 months ago, and I've been eating that for breakfast with like blueberries because I wanted to get a big protein hit, but I'm super lazy in the morning and I have so many other things I want to do in the morning. Cooking eggs or something is just not on my to-do list. But I've had— been having intermittent GI upset for a number of months, but I've been blaming it on the stress of this remodel, the stress of a some family issues, the stress of a business that takes a lot of my effort. And I don't know why it took even me so long to be like, wait a second, why it's so intermittent. Is that tied to the fact that some days you run out of yogurt and you don't have it and it takes your lazy butt a few days to order some. And sure enough, it's pretty tied. And guess what I did right after that? I bought this.

Wait a minute. You got to unpack this for me. So are you telling me that you are having the GI issues on the days you don't have the yogurt or when you do?

I'm telling you that I am eating all the cheese I want, no issues. I'm cooking with butter every day, cooking with ghee all the time, no GI upset. But what I've tracked it down to is the days in which I start my day with like the super high quality Greek yogurt, which is like the no fat kind that's like all protein. I have GI upset. That day, and I did supplement. And so here's dairy, right? We have cheese, I'm totally fine with butter, ghee, totally fine with yogurt. It's a no-go still for me, which is— I didn't even assume that was an issue, and it is.

Most people would think the opposite, like, okay, they've got the live cultures in here, this is going to be easier to digest. We all are making that assumption.

Wow. Correct. And guess the next assumption I said. Well, I'm lazy, so I will fall for anything, any marketing. If you're like, hey, this acai berry is going to like clear up your skin and give you a 4-pack. I'm like, send it to me. How much?

I've got a program for you.

Yes, I'm in. I will do it. So guess what I pulled out of the like labyrinth of products? I pulled out this cool new shake that someone had built that was like everything you need all in one shake, 40 grams of protein, which I was like, Finally, someone built one because I was going to build one, right? And so I start drinking it and I start having even worse GI upset and I flip it over and of course it's grass-fed whey. I'm like, ah, this is so frustrating. And so I can do a lot of different types of dairy, but I cannot and have not ever been able to do whey protein. And for whatever reason, yogurt is a no-go for me right now, even with all my supplements. And so. My point is that, one, nobody— no podcast, no influencer, no doctor— can tell you what is right or wrong for your body in this given moment. Two, it changes as you age, as you supplement, as you go through life. Perimenopause, menopause, that shit's gonna change. Yeah. And then three, it's not like good or bad or in or out. It's like there's a gradient here. Right, of dairy. Yeah, yeah. Like, I can do ice cream, I know that as well, but, you know, I— it's not— but I can't do whey protein and I cannot do yogurt.

Maddening. Those which would be the two golden ones that I would love to be able to do, right?

The actual healthy ones, right?

Yeah.

And I keep trying, I keep coming back to— we used to carry whey protein and such a small percent of our community would be able to use it, and then I started feeling like I really shouldn't encourage them to use it. So I'm going to get rid of it. And I ordered it again myself, just behind the scenes to try it. And I'm like, cause I keep thinking maybe I'll bring that back. Cause that loosening is just so attractive. And it's like, even I can't tolerate it. So it's like, ah, but that based on what you've said, I should not necessarily be making that decision for everyone.

No, I don't think so. And, but I also don't think a lot of people are paying this much attention to their GI. Well, I've focused on this for 15 years and I still was confusing myself for a number of months. It's not straightforward.

Yeah, and to a lot of our listeners, I would say you all are putting up with too much. Like, calling that your normal is not, not okay. Should be looking for clues to why is that true. I mean, which is what— where you started, and I love that. It's like Wait a minute, like, why is this happening to me if I'm otherwise living healthfully? I'm actually making the effort. Well, this shouldn't be happening. I love that. Okay, let's go off of Debra's agenda and now talk about a couple questions. This kind of brings us back. You said all of the supplements you take, and let's talk about vitamins and minerals. And again, I want to set the stage for you. You've worked with lots of people, and this is probably not new news, but for you and me and our listeners, we, many of us grew up up in this era where we went through this roller coaster of, you know, you have your vitamin, your Flintstone vitamin, and your breakfast, and that's just automatic. And then it was like the news came out and said, no, no, no, you're just flushing those down the toilet, you don't really need those. And so we all stopped doing it. And so I think we have this little incongruency, like taking extra vitamins and minerals, that's something that I shouldn't have to do because I want to do this all natural. Women say that, those words to me. Talk about vitamins and minerals. Number one, we're taking them to maybe optimize ourselves, but also we're taking them because we want to optimize our immune system, our immune health. And why is it that we're not always going to get the desired outcome for people who are taking that route to boost their immune system?

Yeah. So I mean, I remember those days, those studies, those news reports as well. I think what has been forever confused in health and wellness is that we study the level that you need to not have disease, but we don't study the level you need to be healthy, sexy, longevity, healthspan, whatever you're into. You're probably not really just concerned with how do I not have scurvy or how do I not have some vitamin A deficiency in my eyes or something. And so it's confusing. Vitamin and minerals are confusing. The soils are getting depleted. So there's a strong case that if you're listening to this show, I assume you're into health, you're into longevity, healthspan, that you should be taking at least for a number of months every year, maybe not every month all year, but like do booster rounds for 3 months, 6 months, whatever, some multi-mineral, multivitamin type supplementation., or if you have known issues, definitely supplement. But I think there's this prevailing idea that we just exited the pandemic and there's a lot of focus on the immune system right now. And there's a lot of, I think, myth really. There's an ideology that we have that if we just give vitamin C or zinc or something during flu season or cold season, that like, ah, we'll be fine. Or like we'll have less of an issue. And the best analogy I have for that being wrong is like, if you're like, hey, I would like to do a home remodel and the contractor's like, Great, I will stack all the lumber in your driveway, you know, and yeah, that sounds good. You still have to take the lumber and you have to do stuff with it. Your body still has to take in the vitamins and minerals and it still has to put it down a lot of different pathways. And you can get enticed by certain marketing, certain studies, certain ideas to like supersaturate yourself with these vitamins and minerals without really taking into account where do they get used, which pathways are they pushing on. And I think what we learned from the pandemic was you can get killed by a strong immune system. Too strong of an immune system is just as bad as a too weak of an immune system, because you actually— what you want is a balanced, smart immune system. You want something that, if it's going to use a hammer to get the job done, that's the appropriate tool. But sometimes it needs a feather, and it uses a feather. And sometimes it needs like a sledgehammer. That's the type of immune system you want, is this smart, adaptive immune system. You don't want an immune system that's always responding with this massive experience, and you don't necessarily always want to drive that through excessive supplementation with vitamin and minerals just during that time frame.

So smart. Okay, so what would be a sign that— so a listener is thinking, well, do I or don't I need supplements? I mean, when is it right? What are signs that my immune system might not be functioning optimally aside from I get the flu or I get colds easily or often?

Yeah, I think this is because the writing is in your history on this and it's in your family's history. Like if you say yes to the following things, which is going to sound like potentially a long list, but it is all indicative of immune system dysfunction. So if you have seasonal allergies, you have a history of them or your family does, and that means like hay fever season, That means like if you live in some valley, like valley fever, like wherever you live in the world, there's like a season of these things. If you wake up with gunky eyes, if you're taking Claritin, if you're taking Benadryl on the regular, or even just during that season, that's a really great sign that your immune system is not capable of being with the regular world because the regular world includes those, those pollens, those phytochemicals. And so if you are having to essentially block those effects with antihistamines or something, your immune system's not capable of regulating itself with the outside world. If you have excessive food symptoms, so like food intolerances, food sensitivities, histamine intolerance, these types of cluster of issues, again, your immune system's not capable of being with generalized food that we have in this world. Another sign that when your immune system gets attacked by something, its response is either going to be overactive or underactive or disrupted in some way. Oftentimes neuroinflammation that is like seemingly hard to figure out, like, so you've done a lot of functional medicine or you've done some other things and you're just having this generalized neuroinflammation that's usually coming from your gut up your vagal nerve into your brain. And it's coming from your immune pathways. Your immune system is, it almost has a memory, almost like you talk about a brain. So like, I think a lot of people are familiar with like brain, like you start driving one way to work and like you can just wake up on that route to work or the gym or something, and you're like, whoa, how did I get here? And like, it's kind of crazy, but your brain did it, your, your body did it. Your immune system develops memory and pathways as well. And so you don't necessarily want those pathways to always be working though if you've gone through a healing journey. And so things like rashes that are unexplainable, acne that's later in life, these food sensitivities, brain fog, these different types of things are all indications that your immune system isn't really at the balanced, flexible possible smart immune system that you'd want to have as you go through life.

So when you say that, so we've got those symptoms, maybe is that this is the way it's playing out? Instead of it putting you flat in bed or giving you the stomach flu, it's the immunity, the, the fight is showing up in these ways. Is that what you're saying? Or because those things are also present it's already a ding on your immune system.

Uh, yeah, I'm saying because those things are present, that's a ding on your immune system. Okay.

There's a lot who might be listening who say, you know, but I'm one of those, I wanna do it naturally. I don't want the extra stuff. I don't wanna, I don't like to take a lot of pills, they'll say. And there's a little attitude with that, by the way, I might add, you know, but it's like, won't exercise and living a low toxic lifestyle support my body and my immune system to just balance itself? That's question. Hey, this is Debra Atkinson, and there is one thing you can't do in the gym at your age, and that's get all the protein that you need. You've got to do that in the kitchen. To make it easy for myself, not only to get the protein but the fiber, the fruits and vegetables I want daily, I started drinking a smoothie. A day 30 years ago. But when I realized all the junk, the sugar, and the extras that you don't want, that I don't want, hiding in most protein powders, that's when I finally caved in after years of saying I will never ever ever sell supplements. Stop skipping, skimping, and sabotaging yourself in the morning after workouts by always being prepared. Look, yep, I agree, real food first, but it's just not convenient to carry a turkey sandwich. Sometimes the protein— and don't forget the fiber— they kill cravings and they boost satiety. And you've got to make it easy to do the right thing. You can use code PODCAST for 10% off your first order at Flipping50.com.

.com today. So the answer is maybe not anymore. Maybe not with all the antibiotic usage. Maybe not with the fact that we live in tight envelope homes. We don't spend that much time outside. We don't garden. We use too much antibiotic everything on our soaps and our bodies everywhere else. So there's a lot to say that our immune system was trained through an excessive amount of different inputs that helped it understand basically its relationship to the outside world. It kept it in check. But now that we live in this new world where we go to the gym and, you know, like you said, we have low-tox, low-stress lifestyle, but you don't really mix it up with barn animals. You don't mix it up with dogs and cats and children and the soil anymore. There's another path of thinking that you're not giving enough inputs to your immune system for it to be balanced enough to deal with the world. And so when it gets confronted with pollen season, it overreacts. It's hypervigilant, basically, to the outside world. And so again, I think maybe not forever, but I think it's worth mentioning that there are products and there's possibilities now where you can retrain those pathways, just like if you broke your arm or your shoulder or something else, you'd go to rehab for 8 to 12 weeks, you know, maybe longer to retrain neuronal activity and all the different pathways. There's so many different pathways that go into moving a shoulder, but we don't do that with the immune system. We just like have the flu and then it's gone. Or we have a parasite and it's gone. We do a mold detox and it's gone. We're like, oh, come on, immune system, like do your thing now. But we don't ever take time to say, Hey, immune system, this is how you do your thing. This is how I'd like you to operate in the world such that we don't have to take Claritin such that we don't have to do these other things.

I want to ask you a question as a little bit of side note, but I'm really curious about this. Is there, if you could, so I'm kind of asking you to look into your crystal ball, you know, or give your personal and professional, of course, opinion. And they're both tied. Who's worse off right now? Is it young kids who will be raised? In this world, or is it those of us who are middle and older adults? Who's more compromised?

Probably both in different ways.

That's depressing. You're a buzzkill.

I mean, I think the kids might have a better shot.

Well, I hope so.

I got— we'll have AI technology, we'll have a lot of new studies coming out in the next 10 years. They're already using antibiotics a lot less than they used to. They're already starting people on prebiotics, probiotics, butyrates at a way younger age. So I think they're going to be all right. I think those of us in the weird zone, you know, as we age right now, who are trying to figure out that we don't want to age like parents and our grandparents and go through what they went through. Yeah, but we're not, we're not young enough to just have all the sexy hormones anymore, you know, like it's— life is a little harder now. Like, we're in the— I think we're in the zone, the weird zone.

That's just great. Okay, I'm not gonna forget that. Do you mention just now, kind of lumped it all in together, and I don't want to let that go past me, but probiotics. I mean, you have an amazing product, and I— listeners, you know, I've talked about probiotics for almost a decade now with and it's like, if you're not digesting, you're bloated, you're gassy. First of all, stop accepting it. But here's why we're not breaking down proteins, number one. But you have something called— I think it's Holozyme. Tell me if I'm getting that wrong. But because I've tried so many, it really— I noticed a difference just after taking it for a couple of days. And I mean, that's a big deal to me. And, you know, I couldn't figure out because I've done so many things. I've done the Elimination Diet. I think that I'm— every once in a while I'll try something, but I, I'm not— I wouldn't call myself disciplined. It's just not hard to do the right thing if you're feeding yourself well. But talk about what's different about your product, and I want to ask you about a word that I am unsure of, and that is paraprobiotics. What is that?

Yeah, so, you know, we had this hope and dream— the whole industries did, I did, everybody from Western medicine to naturopathy Everybody believed that probiotics would change gut health forever. Like if we decoded this and we figured out the perfect probiotic to put someone on, it would be a miracle. And I would say largely that paradigm has kind of failed, almost like the DNA paradigm where we were so hopeful when we mapped the human genome that we would fix everything. And that sucks, but all is not lost. All is not lost. Probiotics are not bad, but they're not the panacea. And they're not the first line of defense that I would put anybody on at any stage of anything. Even a child, I would not start with probiotics. They're just not the powerful idea we thought they were. If they were, we wouldn't be taking exponentially more probiotics in the history of mankind, but yet still have the same amount of diseases and IBS and everything. Bingo. Yeah. So it's a bummer and they do have, I take them. I'm not saying don't take them, but I'm saying if you're limited in your knowledge and your money, there's a lot of other places to apply your your time and money. And one of those could be digestive enzymes, which is the Holozymes that you mentioned. You need enzymes to live, and enzymes are what break down your foods, all different food types. You have all kinds of enzymes in your body. We probably don't have enough time to go through them all, probably another show. But what I've come to realize is that in the probiotic revolution that we were hoping for, we kind of forgot the wisdom of the healers that came in the '70s and '80s. And a lot of those naturopaths and those alternative healers, they would start with enzymes. They would start with your stomach acid. And that really is kind of the foundation of your tolerance of all food, including dairy, which we talked about. So if someone was like, I'm having a dairy problem and I would like to eat cheese again, I would say holozymes is where you should start. Because if you can't break down the food, it doesn't matter if it's kale or blueberries or dairy, it's all going to upset you. And enzymes and stomach acid are where you start with that. That. Now, I said probiotics are not the end of— like, it wasn't just a waste. Just like the DNA, the human genome wasn't a waste. We learned a lot from the probiotic era. And as we're exiting the probiotic era, which I believe we are— this is my crystal ball, this is me looking into the future of the next 10 years— we are going to focus on more about, uh, what the probiotics do, like what they make, because the probiotics make things and we need them to live. And if our microbiome is not healthy and happy, we are not healthy and happy. It's a very symbiotic relationship. So that's where we're moving. And what we're learning in the process is that dead probiotics, which are paraprobiotics, so these are intentionally killed probiotics, actually have a ton of merit and a ton of value. Everyone was so obsessed with whether they're alive and if they're going to make it through your gut and how many trillions should you eat and all this stuff. Stuff, and we kind of stopped to look at, or we stopped to, or we didn't stop and realize like, what, what are the outcomes we're trying to achieve? And one, one of the things they realized is that the dead bugs are safer for the body and therefore the body interacts with them on a regular basis. So the immune system will actually go in and sample what's happening in your intestines all the time. And it doesn't want to pull in a live thing into the body, right? That's an infection risk. That's an issue, right? But it will grab dead bugs because they're not really that bad for you. They're just a piece of information. And so what's really cool in a ton of human data and a ton of mice and rat data is they give a live version of a probiotic and a dead version of a probiotic to the same amounts to these groups. And they find that they do completely different things. The live bugs do help with things around the gut. They do help with certain, you know, outcomes that they might be studied for. That dead bugs almost always exclusively modulate the immune system in a really cool way that I have— there's no other way that I know of to push these pathways. And this is like, basically, if you were to go out and say, I don't know, eat a bunch of dirt that had been purified and just the dead bacteria was left, like, it's literally like taking a capsule full of dead bugs from, you know, I don't know, maybe you microwaved your sauerkraut or something, like you're killing everything and saying it's inert. It's not going to live. You're eating it. And then your body's like, oh cool, that's safe. Let me play with that a little bit. And what it ends up doing is it really tailors the immune system so it's less reactive to the outside world.

Wow. That is very geeky and cool. So awesome. Okay. So if somebody were taking the Holozymes, the digestive enzymes, let's talk about that because you mentioned that'd be the first place that you send somebody to start to help breaking down the foods. And so can you go over for listeners the 3 kind of supportive enzymes breaking down carbs, protein, and fat, and what they're looking for in the bottle and the name that they're seeing? But I also wanna point out that the level of them in your Holozymes is much higher than I've seen on many of the other types that I've tried that were ineffective. Talk to me about that.

Yeah. So we have several groups of enzymes, pancreatic enzymes, brush border enzymes, and then specialty microbiome enzymes. And the pancreatic enzymes are the ones that get all the attention. This is lipase for fat, amylase for carbohydrates, and proteases for protein. And the traditional enzymes included a lot of those, but maybe they didn't include a lot of the brush border enzymes. The brush border enzymes are things like maltase, lactase, which is needed for lactose, which we've been talking about all the show today. But these brush border enzymes are extraordinarily important for people with gas, bloating, and food intolerances because they're kind of what helps break down the last remaining parts of the carbohydrate structure. And so some people have pancreatic issues, like, you know, here's something we don't always think about and it's a little more depressing, but I promise we'll finish on a high note here. It's not just our eyes that are aging. It's not just my testes or someone's ovaries. It's also your pancreas. It's also your GI tract. And so as you're getting less testosterone, less estrogen, less progesterone, you're also getting less enzymes as you age. And so if you've suddenly started picking up these food intolerances or these IBS episodes or something, as you've crossed over a certain age number, it shouldn't be surprising. It's frustrating, but it shouldn't be surprising. And so some people definitely need pancreatic support, enzyme support as they age. And even more people, I think, need brush border support because it's just so easy to damage the brush border with inflammation or something that you eat, something like that. And then we have these, if you don't have a really good microbiome, which most of us don't, I don't, I mean, I try hard, but I don't even have the best one. They make all these really cool specialty enzymes that help help break up the bits of food even further. And so if you have microbiome dysbiosis, you probably have like sort of a lacking in these other specialty enzymes that the, the bugs actually make. And so HoloZymes is different because we cover all 3 areas in a pretty stout way, like you said, with a lot of activity units. And then we have a patent that we license that's about, uh, cofactors. So enzymes love mineral cofactors to get electricity and turn on and do their work. Work. And so our patent basically that we're licensing is the coupling of mineral cofactors with these enzymes in order to make sure that every day when you take them, they are showing up to work like energized, pumped, ready to break down some food.

Very cool. Wow, that is comprehensive. So I mentioned I felt like I felt a difference pretty quickly. How— I mean, is that reasonable, or is that partially placebo effect? And by the way, I'm totally on board with placebo. I don't care why I feel better, I just want to. But how How fast or how quickly can somebody notice a change when taking enzymes?

Yeah, like literally the next day if you're taking the right dose. Yeah, if it's a good product in the right dose. So, you know, I think the other thing that people maybe mess up about enzymes and supplements in general is that the back of the bottle is legal language. It's not health advice and it's for the FDA. It's not for you. If you're a responsible company like we are, we try to put a reasonable dosage on the back of the bottle, but enzymes are taken in certain cancer therapies up to like 160 capsules a day.. So if you need 4 holozymes per meal to not be bloated, that is not scary, risky. It's, it's well within the zone of tolerance. These things have been used for 80 years. They're not risky, but people kind of don't forget to, or they sort of assume that they don't need to go beyond the bottle. But the answer is for certain bodies, and you don't know until you try, really, you don't. Some people need 2 per meal. Some people need 4, some people need 6. And this is true even with other brands, not just our brand.

Brand.

So if you have enzymes in your house and you're like, yeah, these things haven't been working, I don't even know what I take them for, try doubling or tripling the dose tomorrow and see if you notice anything.

So good. That was great advice. That in itself was like mic drop. Okay, first of all, I'm going to point everybody to it. So I know I've been talking about this. I love— if I were going to design a product for you that was not related to how do you gain lean muscle mass and stop losing it, it was about the gut it, this would be it. I mean, there's no need because he's got it, but I will give you a link to the one that I'm using, just kind of ranting and raving about here. So it'll be at flipping50.com/healthyget. And if you have a mind like a steel trap, there you go. But otherwise you can come over to the show notes and it'll be there for you so you can check it out. And again, I've tried, as you might imagine, a lot of them. A lot of people will send me theirs and ask me to try it. This one was different. And so I'm definitely going to share when I have that kind of experience. Stephen, before I let you go, is there a question, knowing we're talking to women 45 to 70 who really are making an effort to optimize the way they feel now, the way they feel today, and they're also conscious about their longevity? Is there a question that I should have asked you that I didn't?

I mean, I think you should ask me about immune and the brain.

Okay. Tell me about Holoimmune.

In the brain. So Holoimmune, I'm sorry for all the really complex naming conventions. I get way too nerdy, but Holoimmune is our paraprobiotic product and it's the only one in the world still that is a multistrain paraprobiotic product. And I built it for my wife. I was scared during the pandemic and I was worried about her health. I was also annoyed by her continual Claritin usage. So I'm thinking, okay, this might might help protect us during the pandemic. I can't get access to these studied ingredients out of Japan. I'll make a product. And then I know the research and the research shows better experience with hay fever, better rashes, better eczema, all these different human studies. Yeah, of course it helps shorten the duration of cold and flu, but that's, that outcome's not that hard to prove in literature. These other ones are much more interesting. Periodontal disease pockets, eye health, all kinds of crazy stuff. From dead probiotics. And so I'm like, if this doesn't work for the, for like, you know, cold and flu and the pandemic, maybe it'll work for her Claritin usage. And I, it did work, but that's not why she actually loves it. And it's her favorite product. And if you, you know, try to get your spouse to do anything, you know that it's never exactly what you want. So I'm trying to get her to try all these pills. She hates taking pills. And she finally takes Holoimmune. She's playing those word games. I don't know if you play those word games, but But she plays some of those word games on her phone. Do you play those? Okay. So I guess a lot of people do. I don't, I suck at words. So, but her scores were like doubling. And she was like, what is going on? Did you put something in this pill for my brain? And I'm like, no. And I was like, let me, let me look at it a little bit more. She's like, I feel like I got my 20-year-old brain back. And sure enough, you know, there's a bunch of studies that suggest the same pathways that help you with your hay fever. Or your rashes or whatever are being transmitted up the vagal nerve into the brain. And so, what we see now is this growing cohort of customers who are in that 45 to 70 range who almost feel like it's a nootropic for them taking 1 or 2 per day. I feel nothing. I'm a little bummed that I don't get this cool brain enhancement, but what I'm theorizing and what we hope to study in the coming years is that by taking these paraprobiotics you can actually change the way that your gut is driving some neuroinflammation on a daily basis and have a better brain.

Amazing.

Amazing.

That was a brilliant question I just asked. Thank you for giving it to me. Where can everybody chase you down? So I imagine you are also on social media. Where are you most often, most frequently?

You know, the, they post a lot on Instagram and I say they, it's because it's my team and I don't love social media, but Yeah, Healthy Gut Guy is typically my handle on TikTok and then Healthy Gut Co on Instagram. But the healthygut.com is, is the main thing, but everybody should use the Flippin 50 to get 15% off if you want to try either product. We are also a weird company. We give free health coaching, like one free session with every purchase. So if you're intimidated by what I was talking about, where you change the dosage yourself, that's what the coaching's there for. Is if you're wondering, would this help me? Am I taking the right dosage? We have an entire team of US-based, highly skilled, multiple credentialed people who are also trained by me on the phones. And like I said, you get a complimentary call to just help make sure you're getting the right product, the right dose for you.

That is so awesome and so generous. And I think for every listener here, just, you know, like the calm in the storm, not knowing quite what am I getting myself into. Here's my current experience, what I've tried, what I'm feeling, and getting some real advice based on you, not just off of the cardboard box or the label. So good. Stephen, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you for listening. To listen to a day decade of episodes and to get the show notes, visit flipping50.com where you'll be able to find all the previous episodes. And I made it super easy to make the most of your listening time and get exactly what you want to listen to as top priority by getting the top 10 episodes in the areas you most care about, like how much protein do you need, weight loss, and other 3 ultra important topics we've identified as our community's top 5. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than you, midlife woman. So go and listen right now. Do you have a question for a podcast? A question you'd love to ask, or maybe a story you want to tell? Did you know we have a special group just for podcast question roundups and the answers? My community coaches and I provide answers daily inside of this group, but it's also where I go when I occasionally say, okay, open call for podcast questions, or tell your story. Would you like to be a guest. So if you're looking for a community of women who are also interested in optimizing their health, strengthening their mindset, and looking forward to every new year, join the Flipping 50 Insiders group. That's Flipping 50 Insiders on Facebook.