Fitness Then and Now: A Look at Fitness Routines as You Age

Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I have a little sleep secret I want to tell you about. Look, sleep is crucial for your fitness, but it's crucial for just plain old everyday life and function. And I find I sleep great unless I have a migraine. And I've had more than my fair share since perimenopause all the way through postmenopause. My secret weapon was Blue Sky CBD sleep gels. Each gel contains 25mg of CBD and 25mg CBN for deep restorative sleep. Something about it helps to reduce inflammation, which I believe for me was key in helping me get to sleep. But the biggest thing is so many of the over-the-counter solutions, whether for sleep or migraines, can ruin gut health, and liver health. Neither one of those did I want to be problematic for me. So this option is recommended by healthcare providers worldwide and backed by thousands of happy customers, many of whom come from our Flipping 50 community. There is zero THC, so it's non-habit-forming. It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at My Favorites. What are you waiting for? Good night. If you were a cardio bunny back in the '80s, maybe you were flirting with an eating disorder, doing a lot of dieting, kind of recalling Twiggy from the '60s. And if you later got into strength training but also continued your cardio journey, you are probably going to love this episode. We're going to talk about back in the day, how we exercise through the years with my guest Linda Malone, who is 65. She's also a writer. She's been in the fitness industry as a personal trainer and fitness expert for a long time, but now flipped over. She's doing some marketing. She's great at it. She helps fitness and health pros actually develop their copy so they sound good, authentic, and you will want to read them. But that's not what we're talking about today. We're talking about her own personal experience. Because when you've been in the industry, working in it and around it for so long, you've seen a collective of many things come and go. And you were a part of it. And I think you're gonna love this over-the-fence chat we have today. My guest Linda Malone is the founder of The Copy Works, a copywriting business targeting health and fitness businesses. And if you think you're in the wrong place, stay with me. She's a seasoned copywriter, former personal trainer, and a fitness specialist for women over 50. She once ran an online fitness program for women over 50. She also hosts a podcast, B2B Marketing and Copywriting.

Writing.

Her byline appears in top publications including MSN Health, Oxygen, Time, Shape, Self, AARP, and the Huffington Post, among many others. She's kind of a big deal. She was also a ghostwriter for a high-profile television celebrity fitness expert, whom apparently she's not disclosing. So we know she can keep a secret, and she's she's not keeping any from us. So we really dished it out today together, talking about, you know, having seen over 4 decades of fitness, what's changed for her personally in her own workout routines now that she is— and she shared with me and with you— she's 65. What's different? How did she start? How did it go through the middle? And how is it working out now? We talked about all of it. And I think you're really going to love it. So join us, and here we go. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50. I started this podcast over a decade ago to answer questions about fitness in menopause and beyond before you knew to ask them. The goal to help accelerate your results with science and the practical application of proven protocols while living your best life. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman, and it's not just about you but the 3 generations that you influence. My unique 40-year career, including being a university senior lecturer in kinesiology, an industry subject matter expert, and an international speaker, to founder of the first and the only exclusively made-for-menopause and beyond fitness membership in the world. Every week I interview experts behind the scenes and the science of optimal hormone-balancing fitness and longevity and share answers to our community's questions so you can have the vitality and the energy that you want, need, and deserve. Linda, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me on, Debra.

And listen, everybody here who is a health coach or fitness professional, just a secret aside is we've already recorded a podcast, Linda and I, and that is on the She Means Fitness business podcast. So if you're looking for that, fitnessmarketingacademy.com is where you would go. And that's specifically for those of you— we're talking about copywriting, we're talking about how to get that right, the right messaging. And I know a lot of you are actually here, and you are not only here with interest for your own fitness, but you're here because you're helping other people with theirs. So I will put that out there. But we're old friends, that's what that means. So she's back, she's fun to hang out with, so So I brought her back. It's always, you know, a first date is one thing, but when you get a second date, it's good. You're in. You have been— and we talked about, you know, I think for you and for me, and, you know, there's influencers and then there's truly fitness experts who've been doing this and doing it for years for other people. But also it's the meta meta, I think. I host retreats, and so I see this all the time. People come over for retreats, and we sometimes cook together in my kitchen, but they'll all be like, can we open up your cupboards in your pantry? You know? So I feel like that's what we're doing, is letting people see behind the scenes of like, what do you do? What have you changed? So you've been an avid, serious fitness buff for over 4 decades.

Yeah.

Tell us a little bit about your own fitness history and how'd you get started?

Well, I'm 65 now. I started working out when I was 21. And I remember I went into this small gym. Nautilus was new at the time. And I hated it, to be honest. I was— I had an eating disorder, in full transparency. I was very thin, very weak. And I specifically remember doing one exercise where the trainer was putting me through— it was a leg curl machine. And she had pulled the pin out, meaning there was really no resistance or very little resistance, and I could barely move it. I remember looking up at her and she had some look on her face. And I said, "What was that for?" And she said, "You're just not a very strong girl." And so I could have taken that one of two ways. I could have really gotten angry, which at first I did. And then I thought— my second thought was, "I'm going to show her." And so I ended up really getting into it. Long story short, I got out of the eating disorder, but it took me a long time. And a big part of that was getting into weight training. And so over 40 years later, I've been through all the incarnations. I went through the Flashdance phase where I did 2 aerobic classes a day and I did spin when that was a thing. Then I joined a bike club. And these are all in different segments of like my workout journey. I was a pretty serious road biker for a while. I joined a club of cyclists and that was in my forties. And I've started noticing, like, I don't know if you probably saw the study that we have two times in our lives when we have a major shift in our body. Have you seen this study? It was pretty much all over the news, like when you hit 42 or 43 and at the age of 60. And this is when your body kind of takes an exponential leap in its aging process. And it, what's weird is I really felt it when I hit 60 and there was just things that started changing. I had to shift, change my workout. I did it gradually over time, and now I've just— I still, I will always do weight training, I do cardio, but I've just downsized everything, so to speak. So do you want specifics on that?

So yes, and I'm 60, by the way, so I hate that you said that. But anyway, because, you know, the brain kind of starts going, oh yeah, here it is, there it is, there it is. And I'm like, no, no, I'm not going there. I'm not available for that. That's my new phrase these days. Yeah, not available for that.

Well, it doesn't pertain to all of us, I'm sure.

Yeah. So you probably went through a total evolution. So you started out that way, not so well, you know, with the Nautilus experience. But then probably, would we fast forward you like 10 or 15 years, what did fitness look like then? And then what is it— what does it look like now?

Like, what's What happened is I got into fitness gradually. So at that point, and by the way, by the end of a year working with the same trainer, she said to me, "You have improved so much. Pound for pound, you're the strongest woman in this gym now." So she went from being, you know, you're super weak to now you're strong. I found I had a real knack. I'm very much built for strength training. And so I really got into that. And there was a time when I was doing— I was working out, believe it or not, with like professional wrestlers who were in the gym that I used to go to. And we used to train together. So I went real heavy for a while. And this was when I was in my 30s. And so I was pushing myself in everything, which I just— I hate to say I can't do it now. I don't do it now. I just don't— like, there's nothing that makes me feel good about doing that. But I was really going all out, like I said, taking 2 aerobic classes a day. I was working out with weights and really heavy. And I wasn't competing, but I was competing with other people in the gym kind of thing, just really going all in. And I just find that now I still work out with weights 5 days a week. I have— I do each body part twice a week. So I don't do a complete workout with weights because I do like to break it up a little bit. I do cardio the same, like 5 days a week. I have a bike at home, stationary bike, but I work out of the house. So I try to get out and just go to the gym, even if it's just to get out of the house to go to the gym.

I get it. Yep.

Yeah, but it's still— I love training with weights. I love the feeling of it. I love the results. And as someone with osteoporosis, I know that sometimes I think to myself, you know, because of the eating disorder I mentioned, my doctor tells me I never completely laid down. I never had maximum bone. Yeah, bone gain or bone growth.

You know what, I— this is such a good opportunity, so I'd like to just put an infomercial in here. Seems like recently we talked about this, but I feel like This is a great time for all of you listeners to be reminded we're influencing the younger generations. And many of you, I know, have children. You may have children young enough, but you also will, or do now, may be blessed to have grandchildren or young people in your lives that you influence. And the more we can get them running and jumping and doing things so that they are laying down that bone density and muscle, but bone density for sure, so they can reach their capacity. So at 25, we peak in muscle. At 30, we peak in bone. But peak means just as high as you get, doesn't mean you've gotten as high as you could have. And that's like the bank, you know, and the bank of bone starts withdraws, you know, at some point. The bank of muscle does the same. We have to fight hard to keep it in there. And so you want— we want those kids, and we want 20 to 30-somethings also, really firing that up. So the more active kids are, the favorable their experience, the more that happens. And that's— think about the gifts you give them. Think about, you know, how much would that impact their movement during a day, because you could make a real difference. So sorry about the infomercial there.

No, it's true. And the thing is, when you're at that age, like, so I had an eating disorder in my late teens. At that time, I'm not thinking about when I'm in my 40s, my 50s. It just seems like it's so far out there. But I am really paying a price. I just went for a bone scan. And I've had osteoporosis since— well, since the first time I had a test. And I still remember the technician's face because I went in there all cocky thinking I've been working out with weights, you know, and I'm just doing this just as a double check, you know, like I'm sure my bones are sturdy. And it was bad. I've been on medication. I'm about to get— I guess it's Prolia, an injection my doctor recommended because it's not— my doctor said, "You're never going to not have osteoporosis, but you can do things to prevent," which is what I'm doing with the weights. And so, you know, it's more important than ever for me to do weight training, which thankfully I like. So, but yeah, my joints, you know, have changed. And it's funny because when I started personal training, so I was in my 30s and most of my clients were in their 50s because that's the age when the kids were out of the house and it's like, okay, now it's me time. They would tell me things like, you know, how they just didn't care that they worked hard. And this was at the time when I was really taking every class and doing everything and, you know, competing with my friends. And I thought, why would you not want to work out really hard? And now that I'm this age, it's like, I, now I get it. And back then I didn't, you know, like it, it's just different. Your motivation changes. Like for me, it's just, I just want to make sure I keep my balance. I want to keep my strength. I want to keep my bones, you know, healthy, as healthy as I can. And just the whole shift in purpose of my workouts has changed. It's also a little bit of social, you know, just being in the gym with people.

Well, and I was going to ask you, what about stress? So I know that you said you work at home, you work out. It's so funny what people imagine in their heads when you say you work at home. I'm listing my house, and so the photographer was coming over today to take the professional pictures, and he was like, oh, I'll just be real quick. You just You can come step out of your office and, and that'll be 5 minutes. And you may work in the office, but I like, I work at the kitchen and I work at the dining room table. I work by the sunlight. I'm like, I'm gonna go outside. I'm like, oh, I suppose that, that is what you would think. I work in the office. Okay, whatever. But I need the— Debra needs to get out of the house away from Debra. Yeah, sometimes.

Yeah, you have to escape from yourself.

Do you find though, because there's a lot of research about creativity and productivity, do you find that, you know, in what you do, your copywriting, that great ideas will come to you? Like, not because you're thinking about them, but while you're working out, like a problem will suddenly kind of work itself out?

Oh, completely. I bring a little notepad with me. In fact, I have it with me all the time. And just this morning, so Thursday mornings I work out, out of the house. So I have— I mean, I work out at home. I have a bench, I have weights. That's from COVID days where we had to do what we could do. And so I had a little notebook there, and throughout my whole workout I found myself just jotting notes for, you know, just different ideas and for blog posts and for, you know, products. And just— yeah, it's, it's when you're not thinking about it. There's a book on that called The Creative Curve, I think.

Really? I'm gonna read it. Yeah. And I just recently did a presentation for a bunch of entrepreneurs, you know, and yeah, there's the— you're building this whole business, you know, to leave a legacy. And it's like, and then when you get done, you know, first of all, you can't build something really great if you're living in crap. I mean, that's— how's that gonna work for you? But then you're also, you know, potentially working yourself into the ground, and then you get there and you've got this thing and you can't enjoy it because you have no health. But it's the productivity and the creativity, I think, that is the hook. Because do you know what they say about all those entrepreneurs who— we spend less time with our friends and less time with our family because we're building this business, but they say like 89% of all entrepreneurs even with bad statistics like that, would do it again. We would still do it because there's something in our DNA that is just driven. We like it.

Yeah. So I've always been like that as a kid. Yeah. I was the one that had the— I didn't have a lemonade stand. I would sell other things because all the other kids were doing lemonade and I was selling at the time. There's something called creepy crawlers. There are these things, these bugs that you make with this stuff called goop. And it was such a weird kid. And so I sold those to the neighborhood kids instead of lemonade. But yeah, and it's, I probably could have made more money working for someone else, but I just, I'm not a good employee. Like I don't like taking orders. So yeah, so I would work for myself. But I think you mentioned something earlier about stress. Like I meditate every morning. I have a routine that I do and I find that there's a lot of great videos on YouTube that are meditation videos. I have two apps that I use. One is Brain.fm, if you've heard of that one. And the other is, I can't think what the other one is. One is just pure like tones that you listen to and it's for sleeping. It's not, it's called Brainwave. It's a little bit weird because some of it's just pure like, okay, I can't listen to this and work. But there are tones that are supposed to really work with, you know, binaural beats and that kind of thing. But yeah, it's super important to have a way to de-stress. And just the biggest difference that I've seen as my body's changed over the years is the fatigue factor. I didn't realize. How tired, like things that would not tire me out in the past. Like I could not do a 25-mile bike ride. Like there's just no way. And I just remember doing that, like, and then going to a class or something. It's just crazy. That's the biggest thing. So I just need more recovery time. And that's, you know, I've added an extra day.

Yeah. And I think for a lot of women, that is so true. And I'm so glad you said that because we end up, you know, have roughly right now, about 1,000 members. And I would say a fair percent of them push themselves through workouts because we still are operating on this 'we should,' like, 'I should, I should do this again. And if I'm tired, it just means I have to should myself through it and push it,' as opposed to resting, you know, and forgetting that, you know, if you come to the next workout fresh you're probably going to get more fit and more out of it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Do you— are you easier or more easily able to adopt that mindset now than maybe once? Do you think you look back and you say, no, I would have just pushed myself through that? Hey, this is Debra Atkinson. Debra Atkinson, and there is one thing you can't do in the gym at your age, and that's get all the protein that you need. You've got to do that in the kitchen. To make it easy for myself, not only to get the protein but the fiber, the fruits and vegetables I want daily, I started drinking a smoothie a day 30 years ago. But when I realized all the junk, the sugar the extras that you don't want, that I don't want, hiding in most protein powders. That's when I finally caved in after years of saying I will never ever ever sell supplements. Stop skipping, skimping, and sabotaging yourself in the morning after workouts by always being prepared. Look, yep, I agree, real food first, but it's just not convenient to carry a turkey sandwich. Sometimes the protein— and don't forget the fiber— they kill cravings and they boost satiety. And you've got to make it easy to do the right thing. You can use code PODCAST for 10% off your first order at Flipping50.com today.

Yeah, it's— I feel different than I thought I would at this age. You know, I thought I'd be frustrated, and I'm really not. I just feel like it's okay to take it easy, you know? And I'm not even taking it easy. I still lift heavy, and I still, you know, show up. And— but I don't compare my— I try not to anyway compare myself to other people or to my younger self, because it's just not It's not helpful. And so, yes, yeah, it has helped me understand, like, what I went through when I was working with my clients, you know, when I was in my 30s again. And it was like, I didn't understand, like, how— where they were coming from. This made me think to my, you know, myself, like, would I recommend somebody, a woman in their 50s, find a trainer in their 50s? I think if you could, it would be really helpful because there's just— there's so much that happens you have to experience. The menopause, the, you know, because I had someone recently ask me, well, what's the difference between 40, 50, and 60-year-old women as far as exercise? And can't somebody just market themselves if they're in business to all three? And I said it'd be really hard because you're talking perimenopause, menopause, and postmenopausal, and each decade has a different challenge or different challenges.

Yeah. So by the way, though, Flipping 50 Menopause Fitness Specialists is what we train them in. How do you know where a woman is and what she needs? And, you know, we train them not necessarily to— we don't go into lab space, you know, we're not necessarily ordering labs for people, but we're helping them understand what labs there are that they might want to be asking about and understanding the difference between norms and optimal. But we teach how do you recognize signs and symptoms and how is that the pivot the pivot point for what's going on in her exercise program. So you can be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem, right? Yeah. What advice would you give women who are your age, or even if we flip that back and say women 45 or women 55?

What kind of advice for exercise? Yeah.

Or I don't know, it doesn't have to be necessarily be exercise, but I think tie that to overall health if you want to broaden it.

Certainly can. I think one of the biggest bits of advice I could say is to give yourself more time. If you're tired, take the time off. And maybe, I think, as someone who was really aggressive about her workouts, it was really hard for me to take time off. But I think if you substitute it with something gentler, so maybe not, you know, you planned on doing weight training, but you're just super tired, just try like doing stretching or yoga or just go doing a light workout, maybe walking. You can substitute something. You don't have to just, like you said earlier, push yourself constantly because it's not going to do any good.

I love that. That is such a great example too of what you've just done. So for those of you out here who are listening and you're Type A's and you're already knowing yourself, and because I think even if you're a Type A at this point, you know, if you got through half a century on the planet, we know ourselves pretty well. We can nail ourselves. Doesn't mean we can fix the problem, but we know. But it's like a smoker, you give up cigarettes, you know, we put knitting needles or something in their hands. And so I find it's very helpful. You know, we don't just say, don't go do the workout today. We say, let's go do this, let's go do a certain walk, or let's go do yoga in that spot where it feels empty if you don't do anything. There's something, but it's just not going to throw you under the bus. All right, so, so good.

And the other thing is to pay attention to, like, joints. Is my joints are what stop me from doing certain exercises more so than my muscles. Like, if I'm doing a chest press with dumbbells and I feel a tweak in my shoulder I'll stop, put the weight down. Sometimes just stretching it out, I'll just rotate my arm around, and sometimes it's enough. Like, maybe there's something pinching in there. But like, never ignore that because it'll only get worse. It's not going to get better. But, you know, stretch it out maybe, but be very aware of your joints. And like, for me, it's my knee. I had cortisone injection. It's just from doing lunges my whole life. I wasn't even a runner, but just doing the weight and I have arthritis in it. And my doctor said, if you want to get those gel injections, we can do that. I'm like, all right, maybe. At least I know it's there. I really don't want to do it unless it really starts hurting. But she gave me cortisone and it helped a little bit. But just pay attention to how your joints are responding to your workout. Elbows, all those, all those things are just at risk more than any—

anything. What would you say to anybody listening? And I, I think we could have people listening who are on any range of the continuum, like those who— I'm listening because it's like at least one step closer to being active, even if I'm not very active. And we might also have those who are— I'm just trying to figure out how to age powerfully, you know, and do the best I can. Anywhere in between. But what would you say collectively are the biggest myths about exercise as we age that they still linger and maybe we need to eradicate?

Well, is muscle still a big issue with women in this age group? Because you talk to probably more women now than I do.

Like, like not getting bulky, that one.

Yeah. Like that would ever happen. I have to tell you a funny quick story. I was working with a woman and her husband. They were both in their 50s. And the woman was very afraid of gaining muscle. And she was kind of— she probably had, I don't know, 30 pounds to lose that she wanted to lose. And she was just built kind of stocky. So I was extra careful. I didn't— I think I gave her 5-pound dumbbell curls, which is really not enough, in my opinion, just wasn't enough really to challenge her muscles. But one morning I get to her house, it's her and her husband, and she's standing there and she said, "I told you." I didn't want to build muscle and you turned me into a bodybuilder. I'm like, what? And she holds up her arm. She makes a muscle, which really wasn't, but her arm was kind of big. And so she goes, look at my arms. And her husband says to her, I think you're confusing fat with muscle. So she's like, oh my gosh. She slaps him on the arm. She goes, I am not. Well, she was. And I was so grateful he said it and not me. Because I just did. But that was, that was so funny because you can pretty much talk yourself into anything. Like, if that's what you're afraid of and you are really afraid of it, I mean, what you can do is just take measurements and take photos beforehand, but you can't tone fat. I always tell my clients, you can only tone muscle. That muscle tone that you want, that's the only thing you're gonna, you know, that's what you're gonna see. So I mean, I think that's one. Is that still like a concern that you hear?

It still is.

Yeah.

And for— I don't think there's— it doesn't discriminate. That fear doesn't discriminate. It can happen with both smaller, more petite women who don't have any excess fat, but also don't have muscle, which concerns me because when I see a small and petite woman, I think you don't have any reserves, right? And, and what if you were at bed rest? We can't afford to lose any of this real estate at all. But also, I think larger size women, you know, who've got some padding in the cushions, they're also concerned about it and not making the connection that by increasing my strength and my lean muscle mass, I think number one, first you gain confidence in your body. You feel better in it, and you do begin increasing your metabolism, you know, and your safety. Your joints are more protected. But both— there's no discrimination. I think a lot of women still have that fear of getting bulky.

Yeah, and I've never met a woman who just did, you know, just weights that were enough to help her get stronger that all of a sudden she blossomed into you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I just—

it just doesn't happen. But, you know, I'm kind of surprised. I guess it's still out there. The other thing that I find is that a lot of women tend to avoid the things that— like, if they have a problem with balance, instead of challenging their balance in a safe way, they avoid anything that requires balance. And I think that— I mean, that only makes it worse. So I always do one, you know, I do exercises on one leg, but I'll be near something I can hold, you know, grab onto if I have to. But I would always train my clients with at least one exercise that you can just do while you're talking on the phone. Just stand up and stand on one leg. But to avoid it because you're afraid of it, or to avoid getting down on the floor because you're afraid you can't get up, we'll figure out what exercises you need to do so you have the strength to get up off the floor. There's just a lot of things that we have fears about that can be prevented if we just address them like that.

Yeah, I love that too. And, you know, I think we spend— so back to really full circle to talking about bone density and how that is an issue, and it is a fear. That's a fear too. I think as soon as we hear we have osteoporosis or osteopenia, women get scared. It's like somebody pulled the rug out from under them and they no longer feel stable or strong or somehow, you know. And I think we've got to stop for a minute and say, wait, the only difference between today and yesterday is, you know, right? And that's it. I mean, it was so, you know, we don't want to be reckless, but we also know in 2024, you know, we didn't know in 1995. We thought we should bubble wrap anybody who had osteoporosis then, and now we're seeing studies done that are fairly rigorous and vigorous and they're getting good results. And that's not for somebody who's high risk, for sure. You have to be very careful and progressive. But, you know, I think we have to deal with— there are things that we can do. And let's not just strengthen bones. Let's not fall, you know? So, you know, the balance piece is so very important in practicing agility and reaction skills so we don't lose that ability to— we're all going to slip or trip. I mean, that's almost inevitable, but what we don't have to do is go down, right?

Yeah. There was a patch of water in my kitchen the other day. I didn't see it, and I had flat shoes on. It's not like I was wearing heels. And I got so scared because I slipped. I grabbed myself on the counter though. Yeah. And so the fact that I was able to do that, yeah, you know, shows right there that how important that is. Yeah. And the other— I guess the third thing would be don't focus so much on cardio because I still see that at the gym. Yeah, women will be on there forever. Like, I'll go into the gym, I'll see a woman on a treadmill, I'll leave after an hour of doing my own workout, and she's still on there.

Oh my.

Okay, you can stop now. It's just, there's this point of no return, you know. If you're trying to burn off calories, I mean, you're more likely to get results from just cutting back on whatever it is you're eating.

Let's unpack that just for a minute or two. Because I often wonder about that. I mean, the logic has to have presented itself to any woman who might be listening. Who is that? Like, when do I do my cardio? I'll finish talking about how to plan the exercise that's going to help you get best results now and best for longevity, and then someone will inevitably say, but when do I do my cardio? And I'm like, were you not listening to me? Like, I— here's the important things, here's not the important things. And you know But we always come back to that because at a very impressionable time in our lives, that's what we learned was the key. But I also think that there's some degree of women still are getting maybe a little endorphin rush from that, and they're feeling good even if while they're doing it, even if they're tired when they get done with it, but they're wanting something back. That they had in their 30s, right? When we did do that, we were— I was reading magazines on Stairmasters, and that was like a delicious hour of my time, you know? And, and what I really want is to be back then when I thought I had problems and have those problems back for a minute, you know, because they're good ones. They were easy.

Yeah, things change, but I You know, the biggest thing for me was that I didn't— like, there is a woman who I had, she was my very first personal training client. And I'll never forget this. She was 55 at the time. And she's doing her treadmill warming up and talking to me and something had happened. I don't know what it was, but she was just in a vile mood. And she turned to me and she— again, I'm 35. She says, you just wait. She goes, there's going to be a time when men aren't going to look at you anymore. And you're not going to get able to get by on your looks. And I'm I'm like, I've never gotten by on my looks. But she was telling me then about her facelift when she turned 50. And she was a very attractive woman. And now it's funny because I think, you know, she's in her 80s now. She's still around. And I wonder how she's coping with that. But I thought it scared me. And I had other women saying, you just wait, you know, you're going to gain all this weight. I went into my 50s just scared to death. And, you know, like, oh my gosh, I gotta wake up, I'm gonna have all this weight. And I'm I weigh the same as I did in my 30s. I mean, I have to be more careful, and I've gained some and had to lose it, but I'm not as obsessed about it either. As long as I'm healthy, and again, with my bones, you know, but I will never forget that. And she just— and sometimes I think about it's like, well, I'm 65, and that is not my concern, is to be attractive to men. I mean, I'm happily married, but aside from that, it's like, I think, yeah, her husband was not very nice to her or something that day. I don't know. It's just so funny.

But I think you bring up such a good point because she said it, but you'd heard it more than that. I've heard women say that. I distinctly remember there was a woman who was probably 15 years my senior at least, and she was a member of a fitness center where I was personal training director, group fitness instructor, multiple things. And so I would see her, you know, she was a regular.. And I remember distinctly the day I saw— I was walking through the club and there she was walking on the treadmill. And I think I'd asked her because I'd just seen her earlier, or I'd seen her, you know, she was very consistent. And she's like, yeah, you just wait. Those words, I like— can we just all agree, let's not do that to younger women? All right, let's just make a pact right here. That really is not favorable for them.

It's not true either. That's the thing. It's not true.

I mean, well, let's play into that. Yeah. What was it like? I mean, what are your 60s like for you? Really? What did you think they were going to be like? And then what are they like?

I look at it like this. I mean, your soul doesn't age, you know, so you're gonna feel like I feel the same. I'm the same person. But I look in the mirror and I'm like, I don't know about this neck wrinkle. And I mean, there are things that I don't like, but I'm happier. And, you know, you hear this, but it's actually true. I'm happier than I've ever been. I'm very satisfied with, you know, my whole life. I'm happily married. I have a good life. I'm doing what I love to do. And I'm, I guess I'm happier than I thought. I have the aches and pains and stuff, but I, I expected to be frustrated at not being able to do as much as I did, but I'm really not. It's sort of nice. I just— the pressure's off. I don't care if the 30-year-old at the gym is looking at me. I'm there to just do my thing regardless of what my former client said. But it's sort of nice to not have that pressure of competing with everybody else who's around. Like, I'm done with all of it. Overall, I just— I feel great. I mean, I feel just like happy. It sounds corny, but it's true.

No, I think it's great. I think there is something more more in my 60s— I mean, I'm barely in, but more in my 60s— there's just something about it that wasn't the truth when I was 50. I think maybe at 50 I felt like I had something to prove, and here I'm just like, I don't really care. And it's like, you know, it— for me, we were just having this conversation in a WhatsApp group of women that we just network kind of in there and ask each other business and personal questions both. But we were just having a conversation conversation about like clothing, and somebody mentioned they felt like they didn't fit in because this is her style, you know, and it didn't feel like it was as up-level as someone else's, or, you know. And I'm— it was interesting just to realize, you know, just do you. I mean, just be comfortable. I mean, I've done the opposite for so long. I left the nice clothes in the closet 'cause I think I have this, like, people were gonna think, like, who do you think you are? And I'm like, I don't care. I'm wearing the fancy pants these days. I'm just, I'm gonna do it. So what am I waiting for? You know, I started to think, I don't really care what anybody, I have less time on this planet than some, so I'm doing it.

Yeah. Yesterday I got annoyed because I was on ChatGPT and I was asking a health question. Not that I use chat as my doctor, but I had like a general health question., and I included my age and said, what, you know, is this could be, you know, I forget what the question was, but it's some health thing. And ChatGPT referred to me as elderly. And I'm like, this AI is gonna have a little, I gotta have a little chat with this AI. Yeah. That's a word that no one ever wants. I, you know, I don't care if you're 100, 200.

What about this word? Senior. Are you a senior? Do you think of yourself as a senior?

Oh yeah, high school.

You know what, I was at, I was at Walgreens and this is okay. I was living in Colorado at the time, so I wanted— no, I was just in Phoenix. So it's within the last 5 years and somebody at Walgreens carded me and like, are you a senior? I looked at her and I said said, in high school? Excuse me? It's a good thing you don't have a job that gets tips because it's over for you.

Yeah, I was just like, really? Oh my gosh. Yeah, we just need to eliminate the whole category. Somebody else asked me about— oh, they said they were in a Sephora and they were looking for eye creams, and the salesperson said, oh, do you mean eye creams for mature? Skin? And she's like, no. And she's in her 40s. So she's like, you know, we just have to just get rid of all— just let's not talk about age. I mean, just none of it's good. Over 50, I think, is okay because it's just a fact. If you're over 50— I'm over 60— it's fine. But not, you know, yeah, put a label on it.

You know, it's funny that we're still doing that in the fitness industry. I mean, there's like still Senior Fitness Association senior fitness certifications. And I'm like, hmm, I can't see our generation ever flipping that switch, like, okay, now I'm a senior. I know my mom identified with it, she called herself a senior, but she's also dead, so I think we're not going to do that anymore.

We have to think of a better word. I don't know what it could be, you know, because there's nothing flattering about.

Yeah, it's true. It's very true. Linda, this has been delightful. Thank you. And if you're listening, by the way, I hope you felt like you were just like listening over the fence and we're having a chat on the patio. It was very good. But I'd love to know if we struck a nerve at all. If you call yourself a senior, think of yourself as senior, if you've had a moment at Walgreens like mine and you refrained from slapping somebody, then I want to I applaud you right now, by the way. And instead I would card you. I would absolutely card you. Linda, where can everybody find you?

Well, I'm at thecopyworks.com. So again, my main business is copywriting. Copyworks is W-O-R-X.com. If you are interested in some of the— I still have a fitness channel on YouTube. I don't do anything with it anymore, but it's been there for a while. And yeah, I mean, that's my website. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm very active on there, and, uh, I'm on Instagram for the copywriting and Facebook as well. And I have— I have a podcast for B2B marketers if anyone's interested in marketing.

Such a good point, glad you brought that up. So for all of you who are fitness pros, we'll link in the show notes to the She Means Fitness Business podcast, the episode that we did with Linda. So if you're interested, you do need to know copywriting, and we'd love to see you over there too.

Thank you again, Linda.

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