Gut Health and Migraines: Your Mother’s Migraines?

I was laying in my hotel room with my eye mask on, having gone to sleep or closed my eyes anyway by 7:00 PM, missing all the social functions. There I was in New York City in the dark with tears running down my cheeks. Literally, here I was, Dealing with another migraine. And yes, I was hydrated. And yes, I had so been looking forward to this event where I was actually presenting on a panel and was there seeing so many of my friends. And it's like coming home when I'm seeing all of my health coach functional medicine friends. It's fun. It's not stressful. And although it is a work-like function, It wasn't something that I looked at as stressful. Today's episode, we're talking all about migraines. It's not for the first time. My hope is for the last. And if you suffer from headaches or migraines, this will be a very insightful episode for you and for I. And stay to the end because we tackle a topic at the very end that we don't and you might be surprised to find what it is at the very, very end of this podcast. Since I was probably in my late 40s, I started having headaches, migraines. Some of you may have experienced this too. I was never someone who identified with having migraines, and it's taken until very, very recently that I actually talk about them as migraines. And yet I can't imagine them being worse. So surely this must be a migraine. And I have had periods of time where I've had like one a week for 7 or 8 weeks in a row. I mean, yeah, that frequently. And then I've had them when I've traveled like to events with friends where I'm going to like have a reunion, meet with friends at a resort somewhere I love. And I've had them going to host retreats. I've had them at two distinct retreats that I can think about. And that is one of my favorite things to do. And yet, yes, there's lots of details that I'm juggling, but that is, I'm in my element. Like literally, I mean, there is nothing better than bringing people into my world, thinking this, welcome to my dream. Thank you for coming with me. This is my ideal day in Boulder, Colorado, and how I lived for 6 and a half years and how I will forever think of this place, this magical bubble. Come, come play in all my favorite places. Similarly, hosting anywhere, you know, those days are designed to get people moving. They're not stressful days. And I'm answering questions and yes, leading a lot of details, but You get the idea. So there's not been a stress component, so to speak. I'm almost always really well hydrated, as you might guess. When we're outside playing at a retreat, my eyes are not on a screen. So it's not, you know, as many of us do, spend it in time. So I unpack all of this for you to say I've had little hints and little, you know, unpacking of all of the obvious things and then going the next level and going the next level. And I do suspect that for myself, there may be, um, food-related, like if I'm eating certain foods, if I'm triggering histamine, I've wondered about that. If I've gone through different programs where not taking things out, but I've added things to help rebalance the body. And honestly, I am still struggling. And this last weekend was no different. Here I was, and you heard the opening, and I won't go into it, but this is why it is such an important topic. So I met my guest today, Dr. Amelia Scott Barrett, at a recent conference for health and medical experts. And I said, okay, I need to have you on. She's got something very unique to share. So she's a neurologist. She's the founder of Migraine Relief Code. She developed the first genetic testing panel created specifically for people with headaches and migraine, giving patients unprecedented clarity about their genetic headache type, which unlocks customized protocol for recovery. This innovative approach offers a personalized, science-driven roadmap to recovery, combining medical interventions with nutrition, supplements, lifestyle, strategies to create the most direct path to lasting relief. She's also a TEDx speaker. She's author of an upcoming book called Align: Live the Way You're Wired to Relieve Headaches and Migraines for Good. Now, she's been featured in numerous prominent, prominent publications, but here's where she may also be featured. So she may or may not, and we can't promise yet, but as you know, I do a 1 to 3 to 4 different retreats for Flipping 50 during the year. They are between 10 and 20 people in attendance. We have an upcoming one in Boulder, and she lives in Denver, so she is also a yoga instructor, and I've asked her to attend, teach a little yoga, but also answer some Q&A because we know that as females, gut health and/or headaches and migraines. And we are talking about both in this episode. Spoiler alert will be very important. So if you are still interested, the spaces on site are taken, but spaces offsite are not. So you can still participate in all of the all-day activities. You just can't have the slumber party with us at night and maybe getting up early in the morning, you won't quite be there for the drama that might happen before I have my coffee if anybody makes noise. But you can get in on all of the rest, and that's just one of many special guests that may be in attendance. So you can reach out through the show notes or reach out to support@flipping50.com if you'd like to know more. But you have to hurry because we do a training and it begins very, very soon. So let's get this episode started. Stay to the very end in this one because it's going to feel potentially a little ironic. We did not lead with the most obvious cause of headaches and migraines. Here we go. Welcome to the show, Dr. Amelia Scott Barrett. Thanks so much for being here.

Well, thank you for having me. It's so good to see you today.

It is good to see you today, and I I would have had to say over the weekend, I really need to see you now.

Oh, what happened?

Exactly. I was traveling, and this is not an unusual circumstance, so this has happened multiple times. I'm traveling, and it is actually something I'm really looking forward to. People I'm gonna be around, it feels like coming home, not a tense situation. And I will get a migraine. And I'm like, are you kidding me?

Like, I really want to be here.

I want to be in this moment. It's not stressful. And, you know, so I was doing my research without knowing I wanted to do my research. So I've got lots of questions for you. And every time I have one, I am just optimistic enough to think, oh, this won't happen again. I'm now— I'm done now. Mm-hmm. And thank goodness I am, because if I knew another one was coming, you know, life would turn real dark real soon. But I would love to know why this, why you, and is it personal? I mean, did you have migraines as well? How did you get into this?

Uh, I do. So I have migraines. Both of my daughters get them. My mother used to get them, my aunt got them, so we have, quote, the migraine gene for sure. And so when I found myself a neurologist seeing patients in my practice, I think I was always really, really interested in the people who had migraines or chronic headaches, partly because I understand what they're going through, but also because I think having daughters with migraine, I don't want them to be stuck on medications for their whole life. If there's any way to help them truly find those root causes, fix them, and live a healthy, happy, beautiful life, of course, that's what I want to do as a mom. So when functional medicine started becoming more prominent, when genetic testing started to become a tool that we could use I jumped on that immediately. I really saw the potential to help people find that long-term solution that really everybody wants. I mean, sure, pills are great. I'm glad they exist. Believe me, they have saved me, you know, many afternoons. But I don't want to live that way. I would rather just be healthy if at all possible. So that's kind of how I ended up in the position I am of being really interested in providing people more of a long-term fix, more solutions to those underlying problems.

It's so interesting that you said that, so I want to pick up on that. You said, you know, want to be healthy. So is a migraine or getting frequent recurring migraines, is that an indication that something isn't healthy?

It is. And this, I think, is going to be a huge paradigm shift when this message filters out, but a couple of years ago, we got some very powerful genetic data, like trillions billions of bits of information about what's going on in the DNA of people with migraines. And it showed us that there are a couple systems that are not functioning according to factory specs when you pick up the hood and look at the engine and figure out what's going on in that body. So this is a pretty big shift in how we view migraine. We are coming to see it more as a symptom of an underlying problem rather than a disease all by itself that you can't do anything about. Right? And so this really comes into play, I think, because so many women are told, especially if they have hormonal migraines when they're younger, so many women are told, well, they'll go away after you get through menopause and those hormonal shifts stop. And when that doesn't happen, they are so mad. They have waited years for that magic moment when the hormone shifts go away and everything's going to be okay. And when it doesn't happen, they are so upset, not only because they're still happening, but because they waited all those years thinking that they just had to put in their time and the end would be in sight. And then when that doesn't happen, oh, those are not happy campers. So there are a lot of real shifts in how we view migraine within the neurological community that are happening as a result of this recent data.

So given that, if it's hormonal or it's not hormonal, what else comes into play? What other causes are there? I mean, there is the obvious, like everybody will say, well, are you hydrated? And I am like, come on, I'm the hydration queen. I— don't talk to me about that. And no, I'm not sleep deprived, you know, or I'm not staring at the screen so long. There are those little things, of course, but what else is there?

Um, you know, what surprises people is that those hormones are such the obvious trigger, but the hormones are actually acting through different systems in your body. So for example, in this huge set of genetic studies I was talking about, one of the things that we discovered is that brain chemistry is a player for so many people with migraines, serotonin in particular. And we know that estrogen is intimately linked with serotonin. When your estrogen starts to drop off, so does your serotonin. And serotonin is really important for migraine. So when those changes start to happen, that is actually the kind of the mechanism by which hormonal migraines happen. It's because of those links with serotonin signaling, also with vascular regulation, you know, how dilated or constricted your blood vessels are. That's actually linked to serotonin as well. And the vascular system is another one of those underlying systems that is a problem for people genetically with migraine. So that is sort of part of the hormonal connection. There are two other systems that are involved as well. One of those is inflammation. And of course, what does serotonin do for the gut? Well, it helps maintain your, your gut barrier. It helps prevent things like leaky gut. It helps maintain your microbiome. And so when your serotonin drops off, all of those things are going to change about your gut as well. I'm sorry, when your estrogen drops off, all of those things are going to change about your gut as well. And if you were a little compromised there to begin with, you're going to feel it a lot more now. And then the last system is mitochondrial energy production. Mitochondria are sort of the batteries inside the cells of our body, and so problems there can also result in migraine. This is a newer area of study in the migraine world. And I developed a quiz that people can take if they want to just get a sense of which system it might be for them and get connected to some free resources, ways to start sort of trying to untangle the things that are going on Under the Surface, and that is at theheadachequiz.com. Completely free, um, you know, short quiz. You just put in what you're experiencing and it'll kind of point you in the right direction so that you know what to focus on.

Beautiful.

I love that.

Oh gosh, there's so much there that I want to talk about. I want to ask you this. So quick fix, of course, you know, because when you have one, that's what you want. And I have been As you know, I have been in rooms with lots of functional doctors and functional medicine types of friends. And so, you know, when you mention you have a headache, you know, someone will say, oh, well, here, take these, you know, and take some GABA. You need some GABA, you know. So talk a little bit about that, and maybe we should explain what am I asking you, like, what is GABA to a listener? But does that help? Because of the connection with serotonin is— yeah.

Yeah, it really depends on how you're wired. Maybe you have trouble with your GABA circuits, maybe you don't. But I think the most important shift in our thinking is that temporary fixes are great, but there comes a point for so many people where that doesn't work anymore. So migraine is actually the leading cause of disability in women under 50, and it's because we have this paradigm of, pop a pill and power through. You know, you've got to get dinner on the table, you've got to get the kids to soccer, you do whatever you can to just make it through your day, right? And I get it, I've been there. But that's not a long-term fix. There comes a point where the medications stop working as well as they used to, where you start getting more headaches— not maybe not migraines, but headache days. And it's not exactly clear why. We call this chronification, um, and most people don't know that it can happen. They don't know that this pop a pill and power through thing that we do in mainstream neurology can put you in a very bad place where you're getting more and more headaches and your meds don't work anymore. So I actually did a TEDx talk about this just to kind of raise awareness so people know, hey, at some point you've got to figure out what's going on here and take the time to really untangle all the pieces if you want any kind of long-term well-being and health.

So you comment, it's kind of circling back to gut health especially, and maybe I'll pick up on this first. When you mentioned your own personal, you mentioned your daughters, you know, I think your mom and your aunt, all coincidentally or not female. Is it more common in females than it is in males overall anyway? And is this gene and genetic connection female only?

It is absolutely more common in women, 3 times more common in women than men. And the genetic connection is not just in women. Estrogen, of course, is more of a female thing, but all the rest of the gene— that's one gene out of all of the couple hundred genes that have been found to be linked to migraine. The estrogen receptor gene is one of them. All the other ones are there for men and for women. So, a lot of those factors apply equally to men as well as women, especially the issues related to inflammation, mitochondria, brain chemistry, etc.

Wow.

Okay.

So, could there be a connection? I mean, given mitochondria also, as we age, we kind of decrease our production of that. And, especially if you're not doing the right thing. And, if you're not doing the right thing, by the way, and you're listening to this podcast, I know somebody, so I'm going to see you after class. But in regard to, you know, overall, we still are fighting that battle and holding on to it. Is it possible that part of the reason we're— and I may be asking you to speculate, so I'll apologize in advance for that— but as we age, you know, and we think, okay, well, when my hormones stabilize, even if they're flatlining, I'll be better off and my migraine might go away. But then the gut health has declined even more and the mitochondria has gone down. Are those just compounding our— here we are again and we're staying in this sand pile?

Yeah, absolutely. Those are the underlying factors that are now surfacing. And they may not have been as bad when you were young. I mean, as you know, we can accumulate toxins in our body that impair our mitochondria's ability to function. That is acquired over time. Wasn't there when you were younger, now it is. And especially if your body has problems genetically clearing out those toxins, you're going to feel it. You're going to feel it in the form of low energy, maybe more nonspecific headaches. Maybe you've been diagnosed with new daily persistent headache. Maybe it's a worsening of your migraines. You know, it can come around. It can impact you in a lot of ways. But yeah, those underlying problems are definitely cumulative. Problems with gut health can be cumulative, right? We know that people with migraine are more likely to have problems with gluten, with dairy. And not only that, they are more likely to have problems with gut barrier integrity and their immune system. The inflammatory chemicals made by their immune cells are more likely to be a little over the top. They kind of fire way too much and cause too much inflammation in the body. And that's just how you're wired. So I think for so many people, the relief in knowing all this is in knowing that there's a personalized path to recovery based on how you're wired. You don't have to try every health hack out there and take handfuls of supplements. Like, your path is actually quite unique to you, um, and it involves more than just supplements. It affects which medications you take. You know, obviously that's genetic— what's going to work for you, what's not. What types of movement are going to be most beneficial for you? What should you eat and not eat? And, and no, you don't have to go on endless elimination diets to figure it out. Like, there's a simple yes or no answer to a lot of this genetically. So I think for a lot of people, obviously, when they're in chronic pain, they work so hard to get out of it and get very, very frustrated with any kind of lifestyle or supplement change. They're like, oh, that just doesn't work. But the reason it doesn't work is because they were— they might have been working really hard on something that they didn't need to do. Their body's doing that just fine. They're doing the wrong thing. So once people get guidance about what they have to do, it is like they are so relieved to just know, okay, here's my plan, rinse and repeat. It's like healing a broken leg. It's gonna take some time, but I know I'm gonna get there because I'm on the right path. I can see it in black and white. This is what my body needs. And they'll do it. They'll do anything to get better.

Yeah, yeah, very helpful. That's so true. So I want to ask, because you've said this a couple of times, so when you mention medication, what medication works? And so I guess my question is, will there always, for each instance of migraine, be a medication? And when you say that, are you referring to what over-the-counter or prescription medication might work? Before we get started, at this time of year, it is really even more important that we talk about the fact that hydration is important, but hydration isn't just about drinking water. Being optimally hydrated is about optimizing your body's fluid ratios. And this fluid balance depends on so many factors, including the intake and the excretion of electrolytes. But you don't need electrolytes just if you're working out or it's hot outside or you're a heavy sweater, though you may need more if those things are true for you. LMNT is one of my favorite ways to boost electrolytes and make drinking water in winter more attractive. And by the way, I add the chocolate LMNT to warm water or unsweetened almond milk for a little guilt-free hot chocolate and take in my electrolytes that way. The current science points to consuming 4 to 6 grams of sodium, 3.5 to 5 grams of potassium, and 400 to 600 milligrams of magnesium per day from diet and supplements for optimal health outcomes. Those are really key electrolytes. All electrolytes are best consumed from whole foods, no contest. Element can help fill in the gaps that we've got in our diet. In alignment with that, Element has a science-backed ratio of 100 milligrams sodium, 200 potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium. Now I know what you're thinking, 100 grams of sodium? I can hear it even on this side. You're wondering, isn't sodium bad for you? But here's the deal. The government recommends consuming fewer than 2.3 grams per— of sodium per day, ostensibly for heart health. But in 2011, a Journal of the American Medical Association study found that optimal health outcomes occur at 4 to 6 grams per day. Yeah, so what happens is if we cut out salt, you're thinking that you're being virtuous by eliminating salt. Oh no, I never salt my food. Because I know you, I've eaten dinner with you, by the way. That actually can cause more harm than good. Many healthy people need more sodium, not less. Symptoms of low blood sodium levels, it's called hyponatremia, by the way, they include headaches, fatigue, muscle cramps, and confusion. And in severe cases, not to sound alarmist, brain damage, seizures, and death. But I want you to listen to that list again: headaches, fatigue, muscle cramps, confusion. In other words, brain fog. Does that sound similar to symptoms of menopause? I say yes. So it could be that you're passing off some of your symptoms for what really is just hydration. Look, everyone from U.S. Olympic athletes to health experts like me and women just like you who want optimal energy and balance for health are using it. You can get your own. Get a free 8-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinkelement.com. Www.flipping50.com. Find your favorite Element flavor or share them with a friend. My favorites, by the way, Citrus Salt and Orange Salt. Real quick, I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm a homebody. In this past year, in every possible way, I moved home to be closer to my family and new grandson. I chose a home I knew I would love every day in, in every way I choose the kinds of things that surround me really carefully. My most recent home luxury, a much-needed new comforter from Cozy Earth, breathable temperature-regulating material with a cloud-like feel. And just for me, no-show essential socks. Cozy Earth creates essentials I love from sleeping to padding around my home office behind the scenes in a comforter comfortable socks. The right things elevate everyday experiences. What I love about shopping at Cozy Earth— they have a risk-free purchase, 100-night sleep trial. Try them for yourself. Every detail is designed to feel effortlessly comfortable. Returns are easy, but after feeling this level of comfort, you won't let them go. There's even a 10-year warranty. Built with care and precision because True comfort is meant to endure. Discover how care in every detail transforms simple routines into moments of true comfort and ease. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code FLIPPING50 for up to 20% off. And if you get a post-purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Experience the craft behind the comfort and make every day feel intentional.

Both. And I mean, I'm an MD, I'm a neurologist, I trained at Stanford. I mean, I, you know, I've learned— I handed out those drugs for 20 years. So, you know, those are definitely a good option. But a lot of people get to this chronification point that I was talking about before where they stop working. That's super frustrating. Yeah. Sometimes over-the-counters work for people, especially early on. So it can be that. It can be any kind of holistic solution either. And, you know, I think that the fundamental shift in thinking is just that is fine if your headaches don't impact your life very much. But if you're having more than 2 headache days a week, that qualifies as a lot. And I think so many women are just so focused on, oh my gosh, I just got to make it go away and get on with my to-do list, that they don't give themselves the permission to think, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, this This is 2, 3 days a week. That's actually a lot. You know what I mean? They tend to say more, it's okay, I got it, I'm strong, I can power through. But I would encourage women, like, just listen to your body, give yourself some grace. And if this is happening to you, know that there are answers available to you. You don't have to be suffering. You really shouldn't be just suffering at that point. That, that means that it's time to start looking for other answers. Otherwise, your brain is going to start changing. And it's going to be so much harder to get better.

It's— and on that note, is there any connection with chronic headache and migraine and dementia or Alzheimer's?

You know, there is a loose correlation. And this is, I think, most likely the research will show it's not great data yet, but it's through this vascular link. Right. So we know that that's one of the four main categories of genetic problems. That's going on under the surface. And what happens for people with migraines is that you get little white spots on your MRI. And most, you know, the party line in the neurology world is, oh, that's just from your migraine. It's no big deal. Don't worry about it. But what those little white spots mean is that there's a tiny little clogged vessel there. Now, part of the reason this happens is because people with migraines have kind of jumpy vessels. They'll get bigger, they get smaller, they get bigger, they get smaller. And so they're a little bit more prone to kind of sticking shut if there's any atherosclerosis on the inside or blood sugar problems causing inflammation, whatever it is. Then that shows up as a little white spot on MRI. This happens to so many people. And we are kind of told, no big deal, it's just your migraine doing that. It doesn't mean anything in the long term. But what does early cognitive impairment do? It, it starts causing little white spots on your MRI. It's the same thing. So if you get enough of them, yes, it can certainly cause cognitive impairment and, and progress to more severe forms of dementia, memory impairment. I'm not saying it's exclusively from migraine. I don't want there to be panic about this. It's not that at all. But there definitely is a link for a subset of the migraine population there, especially the ones that have that vascular component. So yeah, you're absolutely right.

Yeah, that's not, not good. Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. Let's circle back to gut health. Mm-hmm. And, and I think even, and I'd love if you wanna openly share your own, but I think definitely every time I have one, I notice, okay, my, my gut, my digestion or elimination has also changed. And I know there's got to be some kind of relationship there. I just don't know what it is, and it's just so frustrating to like know and not be able to, to actually touch it and grab it. But talk about— and of course we want the quick fix— is there something that we can do, listeners who are dealing with headaches, migraines in particular, can do to help themselves improve the gut and maybe therefore improve the migraine or reduce, or reduce either severity or frequency?

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad I get to talk about this. Thank you. Because there is so much conflicting advice out there in the world of what do I eat if I have migraines. And I just want to share what the DNA research has shown us. And most migraine diets are elimination diets, restricting various foods. And what I see is the other end of that when people have restricted so much that one of two things can happen. First of all, they can get an eating disorder. I mean, they're just trying so hard to make their migraines better that it taps into some psychological wiring and they end up in a really bad place with food restriction. That is heartbreaking. Second thing that happens is that people get nutrient deficiencies. I mean, I always like to say the migraine brain is kind of like a Ferrari. Like super amazing, but also very high maintenance. It needs a lot of nutrients.

I think we just described women.

Yes. And so if you're restricting your foods, you're not going to get all the nutrients you need, even simple things like iron or vitamin B12 or vitamin D that we know are linked with migraine So those are two ways that I think the general advice is failing people. So here's what I'm going to recommend. I want everybody to listen up. This is a really valuable takeaway. Eat more fiber. And I know that's a crazy recommendation and it sounds so simple, but it is so hard to do. But here's how it is helping. The fiber is a very important way to help your gut microbiome heal, to help restore gut barrier integrity, to help elimination. We get rid of toxins through our bowel movements. So you want to make sure that's happening every day. And fiber is a super easy way to make all of that happen. A lot of people get wrapped up in restricting, you know, tyramine or histamine. Well, maybe your pathways to degrade that stuff are totally fine. So I don't think that's good generic advice. A lot of people get wrapped up in no gluten, no dairy, and again, maybe you can digest those just fine. That may not be the answer for you. Um, and a lot of people think, oh, I need to help my gut. I'm gonna take a lot of, you know, high probiotic foods. Well, that can trigger histamine issues for people also. And if you're genetically wired that way, that's not gonna help you, but But everybody can benefit from having more fiber. And I would encourage you— here's my challenge to you if you're listening to this— Google literally how much is in what you're eating, or pull up ChatGPT and say, ChatGPT, I just ate 2 tacos with about a half a cup of beans and maybe a quarter of an avocado. How much fiber was in that? Let it give you your answer. You're going to be shocked at how little fiber it actually was. And then I want you to ramp it up until you're eating at least 25 grams of fiber a day. Go slow, let your system adjust. Um, but that is my challenge to every person out there with chronic headaches. It's the number one step you can take in terms of the gut to start healing.

I love that. And I want to say like twofold, let's just unpack this. And to every woman who's objecting a little bit, I, I'm going to ask on her behalf, but I think one of the biggest objections is, I'm already bloated, so I hate to have more more fiber, isn't that going to make it worse? Can you comment on that? Just respond.

Um, I think it depends on what kind of fiber you're using. So I think soluble fiber is an important one to emphasize. You can buy them like PHGG— partially hydrolyzed, I think is the word— guar gum. Um, you can use beans, you can use chickpeas, you can use green peas, you can use any kind of bean— black beans, navy beans, kidney beans. You can use And definitely start slow, but I would view it as no pain, no gain on a certain level, which I'm sure is not popular. But if you think about it, like if you break a leg, do you have to go get your cast on, get it set, maybe go through surgery? Yeah, of course you do. But it's a part of healing and it's an important part of healing. So I think you've just got to start low, go slow. And recognize that, you know, cavemen ate like 150 grams of fiber a day. We eat, what, 5 or 10 on average? So your body is wired to do this. It knows how to do this. Our genes have not changed that much since caveman days. And you'll get there. Don't give up on it. You're going to see benefits and just give yourself some patience and start low and go slow.

Yeah, I love that.

Love, love, love.

Talk about inflammation because that is like, I don't know, it's the word of 2024 and '25, and I still feel like it's almost mysterious. Like, because we can't see it or touch it or know that, oh, that causes my inflammation, I think it's still kind of— women don't know how to deal with that. How is inflammation related to migraine?

Yeah. Short story, there is essentially a thermometer in your brain, and it's called the trigeminal nerve, and it takes the temperature of your inflammation. And if it gets too hot, it triggers a migraine. It's a reflex. That's how we're wired. So I, you know, I think a lot of people get lost on like, what is inflammation? Like, really, what are we talking about? So So one way I think of it is that if there's anything going on in your body, whether that's in your gut because of leaky gut or a chronic infection or anything, your immune system comes in to protect you, to heal you. That's its job. And I imagine those immune cells like first responders at an accident. The very first people who get there, they kind of size up the situation and they'll make a call if anything else is needed, an ambulance, a tow truck, whatever. And that call, that's inflammation. There are chemicals in your bloodstream that have jobs, that do things, that call in different kinds of support. Now, that thermometer in your brain, that's what it's reading, the levels of those chemicals. Because of course, your brain is inside your body. That inflammation circulates throughout the brain, the whole body, everything. Systemic inflammation definitely gets picked up by that brain thermometer and triggers the whole headache or inflammation cycle. So I think sometimes it's just good to understand what that difference is between inflammation and your immune system. The trouble for people with migraine is that so many of us are wired to make sky-high levels of those inflammatory molecules, you know, those signals that the first responder immune cells are sending out. And that's where we get in trouble because then that's going to go trigger our brain thermometer. And there we are, stuck in our cycle of—

So we're really, we're really good at something we don't want to be good at.

You got it.

Yeah.

Okay. A-plus. Yeah, that's the migraine people.

Overachievers. All right.

Right.

Yeah. So that said, sometimes the first thing out of somebody's mouth is, you know, well, omega-3s, taking fish oil supplement. I mean, where does that come into play? Is that a good idea? Is that a generic recommendation, or where are you with that?

Yeah, I mean, it's a generic recommendation. Some people don't have problems with their inflammation system or gut health, so it's not going to help them. But, if you do, and an awful lot of people do, sure, fish oil can help. And, even fish can help. There was this fascinating study where they gave people— how much was it? 8 ounces of salmon a day and they swapped out their oils with a combination of olive oil and macadamia nut, macadamia nut just to make it so you can kind of fry with it. You know how you usually can't do that with olive oil because it gets smoky and it smokes up your kitchen and turns into carcinogens and it's not a good thing. So, they did just those 2 things, 3 months later, those people had cut their migraines in half.

Wow.

Isn't that crazy? Just from eating fish and a different kind of oil. That's it.

I could do that.

Yeah, me too. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. What question have I not asked you that I should, knowing our audience is primarily women between 45 and 70? And if you're an outlier, I see you. We're not ignoring who might very well be dealing with migraines themselves or, as you know, we're at home holding the bag and we're influencing somebody else in one of three generations. What should I ask you that I haven't?

Um, probably where to start. Um, let me think. Well, we did talk about that a little bit. We talked about that at aquiz.com. Um, what's another good one? You know, I think it's not so much a question, but I think the number one thing I always want people to know is don't ever give up. I talk to so many people who are just frustrated. They don't, they, they don't think that there's ever going to be a solution for them. They've tried everything. They spent countless hours, countless dollars, and people just get frustrated and give up and say, this is the way my life is going to be. I don't believe that. I don't believe her. There's nothing new. There's nothing that can help me. I have tried all the things. And I just want people to really, really hear that's not true anymore. That is not true anymore. The science has literally done giant leaps forward for humanity in the past couple of years, and not just in prescription medications, in other aspects of our understanding of migraine. And so I think honestly that's my number one message for people. Don't ever give up. There is an answer for you. Things have gotten much, much better. And don't ever give up on yourself. That life you want, it's there for you.

I love it. Okay. So challenge to all of you who are listening right now. If you or if somebody that you know and love suffers from migraine, whether frequent, occasional, a little bit of both. I'm going to be the first one to go over to headachequiz.com, and I have her right here, so I'm, I'm seeing this, hearing this before you all. So I'm first in line. But what I want you to do is, if you're already in a community or a group with a program, I want you to relay that you have taken it and what answer you got. And then for those of you who are podcast listeners, not in a group, and you're in the Insiders Group on Facebook, I want you to relay you've gone over there and you did it, and here's the you got. Because here's the other thing, I think that a lot of us don't share this. We're suffering behind the scenes, not realizing how many people actually also deal with this. And I think it helps to have the conversation with Dr. B here, and yet also speak with other women and share what they've tried, what you've tried, and how frequent. And I think just having it it may help you realize, oh my gosh, I'm having this much more frequently than I ever realized. And now you know there is a solution, but you've got to— I think we have to start talking about it in order to get there in the first place.

Yeah, I, I love it that you said that. Um, talk about it, don't hide it, don't feel like you have failed because you didn't avoid your triggers or anything like that, you ate something you shouldn't have, don't do that to yourself. Don't torture yourself that way. Talk about it, get solutions, get answers. This is not your fault. There are answers available for you. And I think we all heal in community, right?

Yeah.

You know, it's so important for us to know that we're not alone, that we're held by other people who can share solutions and mind-body healing with us.

I'm going to, at the risk of doing this, this is like the end of the book, I'm going to ask a new question. And I'm going to tease this in the intro, so if you're listening in reverse, know that I do the intro afterward. But I want everybody to realize we went through this entire episode, 30-minute conversation, not once did we talk about stress. And I think that's really something to pay attention to. There are so many other factors. Where does stress— and not one of us with a heartbeat is going to say, oh, I don't have any stress, you know. So where does that come into play?

You know, it really is related to the brain chemistry piece of the puzzle. So I find this fascinating. So it turns out that the way the genes that are related to stress, which are partly serotonin—serotonin calms us down—but it's also another category of genes called adrenergic genes. Think of adrenergic as adrenaline. So there are several of those that are linked with migraine as well, both the genes that rev you up and make you have more of a stress response and the brakes on that system that help you come back to normal. We know that Those are genetically linked with migraine as well. So I mean, on one level, I feel like I've never lived in another body, right? I mean, it feels the way it feels to me. And okay, so the way I'm wired means I have a bigger stress response than other people do. I have a harder time shutting it off than other people do. Okay, interesting fact. But, you know, and I think that we we just, we don't— I think we take blame on ourselves for that stress, or like, oh, I didn't do enough deep breathing or exercise or meditation or whatever. But I think it's also just, there's some relief in just knowing it's just how I'm wired. I know that my experience of the world is different than other people. Takeaway message: okay, you know what, if I need to go to a yoga class instead of a HIIT class, I, I— it's okay. I really should do that. I should give myself that permission. To address my nervous system and recognize that we are mind-body creatures. We don't heal purely at the level of the physical. We heal at the level of the mind with, you know, our, our brain chemicals, our stress chemicals, all the other things that kind of fall in that bucket that are, that are going on in our body. And I think that's an important part of recovery. I actually teach yoga and meditation-based strategies to my community every single week because that's how important I think it is. I think it's just as important as the genetics.

Yeah, so, so true. And I'm— I think it's really refreshing to realize, or to not automatically go there, because I think that's where many people do immediately. Oh, but you're— are you stressed? Or, or have you been staring at the screen for a long time? And, you know, to know it's probably tied to your hormones and there are genetics, and your gut health really matters. And so let's look at those things, and there may be some tipping point where also you get high stress levels and you're going to be more likely to get a headache or migraine than the next person. But thank you for explaining the relationship. And yeah, and it didn't fall short on me that you're a neurologist who also teaches yoga. So very, very cool. I do.

I think it's important. I mean, it's been so important for me. Um, I discovered after the birth of my first child what anxiety is like. Med school didn't faze me, but having a child, oh my goodness, the anxiety after that. So that's when I discovered yoga. So good, so good.

All right, well, thank you so much for being here. Okay everybody, so just reminder, the challenge is you're gonna go to theheadachequiz.com, you're gonna take it, and then you're gonna go into one of the groups where you're connected to us, and we're gonna start having a conversation about this if you're somebody who suffers. And if not for you, we know that you influence 3 generations, so share this with— particularly who I'm thinking of is, you know, daughters or your daughter-in-laws, you know, and helping them be wiser by the time they get to where we are in this moment in our lives, and hopefully fewer and less frequent and less intense migraines or headaches as well.

So beautifully said. I love how you talk about influencing the generations. That gives me goosebumps all over. I love it.

Thank you so much. All right, everybody, I'll see you on the flip side.