Harnessing Emotional Energy to Navigate Midlife Health & Hormonal Shifts

Welcome back, friends. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50. If you are a returning listener, thank you so much. We appreciate your loyalty and your listenership. And I would so love to ask you a favor right within 30 seconds of the opening. How rude. But if you would share this with a friend, you really help us all. You help you and me expand our reach so that all women have better information and better choices. And I think probably it's one of the things I hear most from women that I never knew that was an option for me when I went through it. No one told me. So let's just tell everybody they don't have to love every topic, everything, or every choice, but I think they do or will appreciate knowing it and appreciate knowing you shared it if they mean something to you. If you're brand new, welcome. We dive into all things about aging well through menopause with fitness wellness habits, how to build muscle, how to build bone density based on the science and based on proven frameworks that I've put into play for 12 years. I like to say on an everyday, all-day basis. Prior to that, for 30 years, I mainly trained midlife women, and I didn't know that I would be starting what has become Flipping 50, the first and only exclusively made-for-menopause fitness membership in the world. And I know you are going to hear somewhere, or are. There's no such thing as menopause fitness. And yet I think to the women who are doing all the things they were doing but not getting results, or who find they're feeling worse doing traditional fitness, we can't ignore that. And that's who I'm here for. And unfortunately, there's a lot of us. But there is a framework that actually helps you determine how do I get to the point where I can do what I want when I want and get the results that I want? So let's dive into that. In this episode, we're talking about how you can get better results with your muscle, your lean body mass, get better sleep, but do it with an intangible. And we're talking about another tracker, if you can believe that. But this is not your everyday tracker. And I, for one, I'm on the list to get one. My guest today is Harry Massey. He's a returning guest. It's been a long time. He's a quantum wellness visionary, bioenergetics pioneer— that took me a little to say that— and founder and CEO of Energy for Life. And after a catastrophic accident left him bedridden for nearly a decade, he discovered and developed cutting-edge physics-based -based solutions that helped him recover fully and now help thousands worldwide. We're going to get into that and his story. And we, folks, we go deep here discussing literally his why and how he ended up sick and in bed for 10 years. So stick around with this one. He is a young, um, handsome, athletic man. However, he has a lot to say and his tracking device, I think, will be of interest to many of you, and some will come to it slower than others. Have I piqued your interest? Exactly my goal. Let's get into this one. Harry Massey, welcome back.

Hi, Debra, how you doing?

I am doing great. We are gonna unpack it all today. But before we go too far, So we've just heard your bio, we heard all the wonderful things you're up to, but everybody listening first needs to know a little bit about what is emotional energy. And I want to distinguish that because not long ago, or maybe it was longer ago now, I'm showing my age, but emotional intelligence was all the rage. That was the term. But what is emotional energy or what does it mean to you?

You know, actually, I actually distinguish the two. So there's energy and there's emotions. And in short, if you're looking at how your body uses energy, your brain is using 20%, even though it has like 2% of the mass. Your muscles use up about another 20%. Your digestion uses like 10-ish%, or your other organs are using another— 20-ish percent. But what really matters is where you're leaking energy. And the two major, major leaks of energy are one, negative emotions, and we'll get into that in a minute. And then the second is pain. So for example, if you have pain and very, very tight muscles, your muscles use 3 to 5 times more ATP to basically hold that tense muscle. Whereas if you you can relax it, it's using up a lot less energy. And of course, going back to emotions, they have this huge cascade and you can get high cortisol. It can ramp up your nervous systems, your brain nervous system, use more energy. And it also affects your immune systems. Your immune system ends up using more energy. So yeah, for me, when you use that word emotional energy, But yes, it's really referring to how you're leaking energy through negative emotions. And just to make a point of that, of how significant that is. So there was a study done looking at adverse childhood events. And if you'd had more than 2 adverse childhood events, that basically later in life, give you all of these negative emotions, on average you have a 20-year reduction in lifespan. So to put that in context, you can do all the detoxification that you want, you can eat all the perfect diet, but if you're carrying all these very, very negative emotions, on average you're going to have a 20-year reduction in lifespan. And it's also in all of these other statistics of like you have much higher levels of diabetes, heart disease, et cetera, which is obviously what kills you and gives you the reduced level of lifespan. And do you like research? Do you want a research example?

Absolutely.

Yeah. Okay. So there was a study done by Yale University and they basically looked at smokers over a 10— no, sorry, not a 10-year period, it was over a 20-year period. And they looked at 10,000 smokers. And what they found, and they also measured their anger scores, they scored them like 0 to 10, and above 7, you're angry a lot of the time. 3, if you're around 3, you're sort of like the average person and you get an occasional anger flare, which is normal, but otherwise you're not angry. And they found that those who had an anger score of 7 or greater, they were the ones that all got lung cancer. And in the people who scored 3 and less, none of them got lung cancer. Now, honestly, that's very significant because we've all been led to disease that it's the smoke that is causing the cancer. Now, yes, it's the smoke that's making it be about the lungs. So it's lung cancer rather than breast cancer or if you're a male, prostate cancer, et cetera. But what it's saying basically, if you're in a negative emotional state, your cells aren't able to detox all of the toxins from the smoke. But actually, if you're in a relatively happy state, your body can handle the toxins and it can expel them so you never get cancer. So it's more like smoke plus negative emotions causes causes cancer. But literally, if you didn't have the very negative emotions, you don't get cancer.

That's pretty amazing. So would you go as far as saying that would likely carry over or be similar for somebody who had breast cancer risk or, you know, any other cancer?

Uh, yes. I mean, they're all generally related to, to different areas. I I don't know why they studied anger. I mean, from a Chinese medicine perspective, different organ systems are correlated to different emotions. Actually, normally liver's associated to frustration, anger, or actually lungs are associated with grief. Your spleen, pancreas are associated with anxiety. But yes, there's all of these associations with different organs and different emotional states from a Chinese perspective. And there's also more, there's different versions of that. It's called German New Medicine and they associate different traumas with different cancers in the body. And in his work, he scanned 50,000 CT scans of people with cancer and he found these calcified rings in different parts of the brain that would then relate to all of these different tissues in the body. But yeah, absolutely, there's all of these very, very strong mind-body correlations between different emotional states, different belief systems, different traumas, and where you end up with cancer and not just cancer, all sorts of all sorts of different diseases. Like people who are extremely pleasing, they're more likely to end up with Parkinson's and— sorry, not Parkinson's, ALS.

But yeah. Shocking. Okay. So for a lot of women going through menopause, there is such a wide range, a continuum of my experience. Like, maybe I go through and it's, it's fairly mellow, and I wonder, what is all this fuss about? Like, you know, until a certain point for some women, then they'll get hit with it and they're like, oh, now I get it. But some women do seemingly sail through it pretty unscathed, and others just begin very early and for a long time having a really harsh experience. Would you— and we've all been taught we need to, we need to get the labs, do the blood work, do the saliva testing, maybe dried urine, maybe wet urine. There's so many ways to test today. It's like, and but we need the data and then we can choose to do lifestyle change or we can choose hormone therapy. I'm gonna— I'm trying to leave out the word replacement because it's more like a supplement. But, you know, I think women feel, if I'm doing all the things, in fact, I'm on therapy, it's not working. Would you— is this something that you would unpack for them and say, have you looked at this? Have you looked at your energy, your emotions?

Um, yeah, it's incredibly important. I mean, the, the more that you have awareness of your emotional state, the more likely you can either have a positive impact with it and use it to your advantage, or if you're not aware and you're just continuing in these negative states, obviously the more likely you're going to have all of these symptoms. And there's such a direct correlation between, I mean, just take a very basic, this is a very basic analogy and it's a bit deeper than this, but when you're in a negative state, you're automatically producing more cortisol. When you have more cortisol in your blood, it's suppressing the other more beneficial hormones. That's just off the bat. You're also in a much more sympathetic nervous state. So that's the state when you're basically in this sort of alert, wired stress. Well, the healing state the one that basically helps fix everything and regenerates you, that's the parasympathetic state. So if that's been turned off and you're much more of the time in the sympathetic state, then it's going to be much harder to overcome those symptoms. Absolutely.

Yeah. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about your projects here, and I want to make sure that I understand them, but Oddly enough, as we're talking, I'm in the middle of a month-long— we do this regularly a few times a year because women need proof in order to make the changes that we know we should make anyway. Sometimes we just need to see it. We need to see the numbers. And if we can see, like, in real life, how did that breakfast affect me?

That's interesting. I thought that was a male thing. I thought women needed to experience and feel it. Like, if they experience it, then they're actually more likely to believe it. Whereas males are much more, I have to have the data.

Well, it depends. See, if it's something we don't want to do, or if it's, you know, right? So we need the motivation to put down the glass of wine. Maybe we need the motivation. If, if we really like that wine, we've got to say, oh my gosh, that was terrible. And now I can make that correlation between my blood sugar spiked and I can't get rid of the belly fat no matter what else I do. We have that immediate response in the CGM. And I am just like intuiting that this G.E.M. wearable, is that how you say it or do you say G.E.M.?

Yeah, G.E.M.

wearable. So the G.E.M. wearable, first of all, tell me what that is and how it works. But what I'm imagining is it's like proof that negative emotions or your stressors are actually what's getting in your way, which is kind of like it's the oatmeal at breakfast, guys.

Well, G.E.M.M. stands for Guided Energy Management, and it does a few things that are pretty new in the wearable world. But overall, it will basically detect, correct, and protect your energy and emotions. I'll start with the detect side. So in traditional Chinese medicine, if you've ever been to an acupuncturist, they'll put their fingers on your pulse and they'll basically start reading your pulse and they can identify 29 different pulses if they're good. Wow. And what we were able to do is basically using a PPG sensor and lots of data, which I know you love, but basically we're able to identify the 29 pulses that are going on in you, but we're doing it every 15 minutes. And obviously if you visited an acupuncturist, you're probably getting it once a month, if that. And we can correlate those TCM pulses to different emotional states. So for example, well, we mentioned frustration, anger at the beginning. So there's a pulse called a Wari pulse, pulse, and a Wari pulse in Chinese medicine is associated with blocked, restricted Qi going through the liver. Or there's a soggy, damp type pulse associated with the spleen and the pancreas that's associated with increased anxiety. So basically we can tell. Now you do have a dominant emotional characteristic, so you do have a bit of a dominant pulse, but we can tell when that pulse gets more extreme and also when it changes. And basically if you change emotional state, that pulse will change because of how the Chinese medicine works. So to begin with the wearable, it'll tell you what emotional state you're in. It'll also tell you your overall emotional resilience. So sort of give you an overall guidance if you're in a more positive place or a more negative place. And then plus it'll tell you the emotional characteristic or that word you used at the beginning, emotional energy. I couldn't explain emotional energy without explaining GEMS, so I had to wait. But now I can explain. But basically it'll tell you your emotional energy and then it will do all the normal things like look at heart rate variability, sleep, movement, all of those types of things. But that's not what we're so concerned of. It's what we're more concerned with is helping people transform that negative emotional energy to more positive emotional energy so you don't get that horrendous 20-year reduction in lifespan and you can get back to a more relaxed sympathetic state. And then there's some things you can do manually. Like if you know what that negative state is, we have a journal, you can journal about what that state is. Once a day and then reframe because we also put the positive. So frustration, the opposite of that is being decisive. Or if you're anxious, it's because you don't have faith in the future. So basically having faith in the future. And then we have exercises where we can help you journal of how you can transform to that more positive state. So that's that. Then we get onto the correct and protect part. The correct part. So I might have to wind back a while. So 20, well, 30 years ago, I was extremely sick. I was bedridden actually for 8 years, which is its own whole story in itself. Wow. Towards the end of that, I ended up meeting this scientist from Australia who'd been mapping out the energy and information of the human body, or what we would now call the body's energy control system. And just like you mentioned about all the biochemistry, well, yeah, biochemistry isn't the only thing that's going on in your body. There's also a field-based or an energy control system and all of your cells have receptors for this field information, which is really no different to a chemical. If you imagine you've got a cell and the chemical comes along, it basically gives a signal to a cell. The same thing can happen with a photon, basically a particle of light. It can happen with magnetism as well. It can happen with sound as well. But basically the cells do respond to that biological information that's transmitted through light. And anyway, so I met the scientists, spent another 10 years making this system that could basically both detect and correct what those energy fields were. And then much more recently, so maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I met Professor Hemal Patel at UCSD, and he's basically been for the last 4 years been doing research for us at the university.

Oh my gosh.

Where we've basically been able to prove out these effects. So we can basically take different cell cultures, transmit information via light to them. And for example, because the gem is about energy, we wanted to see if we could increase the energy efficiency and output of a cell, which, which we were able to do so we could increase how the efficiency of glycolysis basically means you put in the same amount of sugar to the cell or give the cells the same amount of sugar, but we could get another 25% of any more energy out than the normal. And we're able to increase mitochondrial density by 50%. And then we're also able to protect the cell from reactive oxygen species, which is a very technical term, but it basically means we were poisoning the cell with hydrogen peroxide and we were able to protect it by 67% compared to the control. So long story short, what we've been able to do in the lab, you can basically just wear on your wrist and get these corrective biosignatures that will obviously just improve your energy, your emotional state, your vitality. Now, we don't have 20 years of data, so I can't claim it will extend your life. I'm pretty sure it's going to help. The research would indicate that it's going to help. So that's the correct side. And then the protect side is pretty similar, but basically because we're always reading the state of your body because it's always reading your pulses, we can give you the right biosignature in real time. So we're basically correcting you every hour and it's looking back on the last hour's readings.

So yeah.

Amazing.

Okay. That's quite fast. You put these on real people, not in a lab, and you're not really looking at them under a microscope, but How long does it take for somebody to notice a change? Quick word from one of our sponsors. Can we just be honest about the holidays? Life does not slow down. We just add late nights, big meals, and extra stress on top. That's when sleep can take the hit. We're wired at night, drag in the morning, and feel it all the next day. This is why I use Magnesium Breakthrough? Well, one of the many reasons I use it, it has all 7 forms of magnesium our body needs, so it's easier to relax, fall asleep, most importantly for many of you, stay asleep, and wake up ready to take on the day. Now here's what you get as a listener. Go to bioptimizers.com/flipping. You'll see a limited time special on their best-selling Magnesium Breakthrough. This exclusive offer gets you 30% off Magnesium Breakthrough on your first subscription, a free 30-count bottle of MassZymes for digestive support. I promise you, you'll want it in your purse at your next cocktail party. The Sleep Guide Blueprint free. The regular price for this offer is $72, but for a limited time, you can get it for just $28. That's a total savings of over $44. When you use code FLIPPING50. If you're there during the 12 Days of Wellness Sale, you can also grab select deals on other products with savings up to 32% off while you shop. If the promo is passed, you're still covered by my exclusive code FLIPPING50 that always gets you at least 15% off. Lock in your sleep, support your body. Go to bioptimizers.com/flipping and get your Magnesium Breakthrough today. And the your limited time gifts.

So we've got data from the last 24 years where we've basically done it in a liquid form called an infusutical. This is the first time we've done it on your wrist, but it's very similar. So you'll notice an effect actually that day. So you'll feel more relaxed, more energy basically immediately. For the longer term, obviously the body doesn't change everything instantly. Obviously you have to restructure your physiology and organs so that can take months. And that obviously just depends how far sick you are. In general, obviously the more years you've been sick, the longer it'll take. But if I take my example, I was bedridden for 8 years and Infusuitica has got me out out of bed in 15 months or so.

And that's what I wanted to ask. So the further, I hate to say this, but the further gone you are, the more worse off you are, would you be more likely to see more rapid change than someone who is—

You actually get more significant responses the worse you are. That's absolutely true. But there are more physiological things that have to happen and it is like a reverse order. I mean, well, you would have heard of the Hering's Law of Cure, et cetera. But in that method, and I don't think it has to be as long, but in that method they generally say for every year you've been sick, it's like a month to reverse that particular symptom. So if it's 7 years, it might be 7 months. So that's if you're going about everything correctly, that would be a good approximation.

So talk a little bit about your GIST. Is that how you say it? GIST or gist? GIST. GIST. Okay. So the GIST process, it's gratitude, intention, surrender, trust. How does that work? And I'm guessing it is very compatible and synergy.

It does pair with Jamf very well. I mean, I built it for, like, I wrote that philosophy while I was making the Jamf for that reason. Because, well, if you don't have a philosophy to follow, honest, well, like, I'm just not a believer, having been extremely sick myself and got over it, there's an awful lot of, whether it's devices or supplements, like this pill will solve all your ills and that, that's not really true. You need an overall life philosophy that basically goes with these things. And GIST stands for gratitude, intention, surrender, and trust. The process is like a journal, but in short, if you write down what you're grateful for, it puts you in receivership for your intentions. And even if you don't believe in sort of the universe, higher powers, all of that stuff, just from a practical point of view, the more grateful you are just interacting with other people, they're more likely to help you, just from a very practical point of view. Now, it is deeper. The universe, spirit, however you want to call it, will actually deliver, is more likely to deliver you intentions when you're in that state. But if you don't believe that, it still practically works. Intention, basically, you write down your intentions for the day, but you do them in a very clear way that is generally bigger than you can imagine or easier than you can imagine. The trust bit, basically, if you then just— sorry, surrender comes next. You then surrender the how to how those intentions will come up. And that's the part where you're basically leaving life, universe, God, whatever your belief system is. It doesn't matter on your belief system. It works out. We'll basically deliver that and then trust as it's happening in your highest interests. Now, yes, if you've been in quite a negative spiral for a long time, trust is quite— trust can be hard for people, but it is actually extremely foundational. I really have been in those very, very dark places of being bedridden. I've had quite the business journey. I've Nearly lost my company twice in 24 years and turned it around from the brink. And in all of those moments, having trust and faith that actually it's the universe teaching me something, figuring out what it's teaching me, and it's really just reordering things and having faith in where I'm going and then just getting very focused. Again, it does all work out.

And Yeah. Of those 4, which would you say is the hardest for most people?

Well, I mean, it's going to be surrender or trust. I mean, writing an intention is the easiest. A lot of people forget to be grateful, but it's not too hard to do. But yeah, I'd say I do think it's trust actually in the end. It is trust. Because if people have had a lot of bad things happen and especially in their own bad spot or spiral going down to have that trust that they can get out of it, that is hard. But I do promise this type of process works. And then the other part of it is you want to balance that energy or that intention across 4 quadrants. You've got social, self, health and wealth, and social's all about relationships. And you basically want win-win-win relationships, which is a win for you, a win for the other party, a win for society. And then other people, life, the world around you is going to help you achieve those. A very simple example would be when I was super, super sick, I had no money, no business experience, sort of nothing really. But all I did have was a good idea that would help other people get their health back and help me get my health back. And so that was a win for the people I was talking to about it, for obviously other people, society, and for myself. And it ended up creating a wonderful company. But another way of putting it, honestly, sometimes the bigger the plan, the more your plan is to help more people, the easier it is. And that's a— I don't know why. Well, people don't think like that, but it's absolutely true. But the more you're in your own head just about your sickness, your own symptoms and all of that, the more self-obsessed you are, actually the less life helps you. And I know how hard that is because I've been in these terribly sick states and the only thing that's pulled me out of it is actually being more selfless and helping others. And that's actually what pulls you out. Well, yeah, you would know, Debra. I was like the walking dead when I met you in Leicestershire all those years ago.

It was a long time ago. Yeah. That sounds good. So pre-sickness to pre-sick Harry to sick Harry to then post-sick Harry, were you always interested in energetics and bioenergetics?

No, no, no, not at all. No, okay. No, I know, so I was at university, I did an economics and finance degree and I was a rock climber. I was a rock climber. So yeah, and I was also, yeah, basically, but the reason I got sick is because I came out as, well, I didn't come out as being gay. It was forced upon me by a semi-boyfriend turning up to my 21st with all my family, friends, godparents at home, uninvited, outed me. I had a difficult time with my family over it for a little while. Anyway, and I sort of got into a very hedonistic cycle of excess risk, rock climbing, falling off mountains and cliffs, fracturing my spine, taking drugs, all this kind of stuff just to escape the sort of rejection. And I ended up in a wheelchair and then I ended up bedridden for years. So no. Yes. No.

No.

I was going to be I was going to make some money in London and go and buy a chalet in the French Alps and teach climbing and skiing. That was my plan. And obviously life had a different plan. Wow.

Wow. What is your hope with this? So I'm guessing that you take your own medicine and your goal is to help a lot of people. I mean, what is your vision?

With the wearable? Well, if I roll back to that story, if I'd had more awareness and had some sort of philosophy at the time, I wouldn't have got into that complete mess I got into. So really, partly I've come out of it to heal that inner 30 years ago story so other people don't have to. Go through it. I mean, that's probably the main reason. But yeah, from a societal basis, if you're looking broader, obviously, I guess we're in this period— was it, I think Mars is in Aries for the next 20 years, which is very about— well, it's a bit fighting energy conflict, but it's also about people's individuality and all of that type of stuff.

When is your birthday?

July 29th. I'm a Leo. I'm almost Aries rising, but I'm actually Taurus rising. However, but yeah, the thing I'm trying to say is, yes, I see society is a little bit, well, it is sort of tearing itself apart or it has been, probably is going to continue, unfortunately. So I just think the more we can help people get more awareness of their emotional states, the more we can help them not react and just respond in a more logical way. A, it's going to help their health. B, I think it has a ripple effect across society. So that's our hope.

Amazing. I want to come back to, to all of the listeners who are thinking, and me, what about me, who might be saying, you know, how can I help? I, I think one of the things that gets hard for a lot of my listeners, they are also participating in a program or they're a member in addition, or they're seeking muscle on their own because muscle kind of gives its way to supporting bone health. And, and I think we place a little too much emphasis on bone health. Personally, I think it's better if we look at muscles. Let's not fall and test our bones. But there's that.

Um, but it does exercise a lot, your bones are— you're gonna get more bone density anyway, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but I think for a lot of women who are tracking, we've got everybody using a smart scale and measuring, and they're struggling to gain muscle even though they, they're checking the boxes, doing the things. So from your perspective, how would energy regulation influence strength strength, a woman's ability to recover so she can do it again, but do it building up, not breaking down, and her metabolism, which is also key for women in midlife.

Ultimately, it's about energy efficiency. So just imagine that the body is a little bit like a battery. And let's say your control system is just, well, let's say your battery is just leaking energy. So negative emotions are leaking pain and injuries and tight muscles are leaking it. Other, you know, just, you know, it can be viral immune stuff is leaking, is just leaking energy. The more we can get your overall energy control system to be efficient, the more energy you have available for recovery, regeneration, getting basically getting your health back. So yeah, it's just as simple as that.

Mm-hmm. Like you said, and I want to say this to, to my audience, and I'm not quite sure I'm going to say this very eloquently or articulately, but I must say it anyway. I think that sometimes women know down deep that there's something they need to deal with, and yet we're not actually in the habit of dealing with it. We circle around it and we We put the list of things that's tangible, that is so much easier to deal with that. Like, I can go to the gym and I can make sure that I eat the right thing at lunch or hit my protein quota, even in spite of— there's this background noise here in our head, like we haven't dealt with that, the emotion about something or, or whatever it might be. Talk about, for a woman who might be in that state, What would be a way that you might encourage her to flip the switch?

Well, it really does start with awareness. So if you don't know what that state is, that's a problem. And then most people don't know what to transform it to. It's like, okay, if you're impatient, what's the opposite of that? It's It's joy. What's the opposite of fear? It's connection, et cetera. Sorry, no, fear is courage. With connection, it's grief. But the opposite of grief is connection. If you've been in grief because maybe your husband died 2 years ago, the most important thing is actually to connect to other family members and and friends, that's how you're going to get over it. So I think awareness, which obviously the gem will help you get awareness, is the first. I think the second is when something happens and you give some little negative response to somebody, I think the next time something happens, just pause and try not to respond. Well, actually, instead of try, just don't. Just don't respond. Or don't react, don't react, wait, think about it. You can just come back to that person the next day. When you get good at it, you can do it in 2 minutes, but you won't be able to do it in 2 minutes straight away. It might take you a few hours or the next day and then just say, you know that thing you said to me? Well, I think my boundary might have been crossed. And I mean, just have a whatever. Obviously it depends what the situation is, but just have a discussion about it and you'll learn. And whatever that thing is, I'm sure it won't be the big thing you think it is and it'll get resolved much more easily. So I'd say that. And then the third, and you don't need our journal to do it, you can just use a blank piece of paper, but just journaling what happens on a day-to-day basis and putting your thoughts down on how you could improve whatever that is, it's incredibly helpful. Journaling, that's changed my life. I mean, I use it for business. People have business planners and to-do lists and goals. I don't. I just use my gist journal and I'm basically, I'm just reviewing what happened and then I'm sort of expanding and articulating my intentions in a better framework. And then I go out and speak to whoever it is the next day in that more thoughtful way. So that is what I would say.

I'm glad you said that because you've mentioned journaling and I was just about to say, yeah, you've anchored in that several times. I want to ask you something. We're in this era where I think everybody will say we're gonna all get stupid. We're not reading, we're not writing, and we ask ChatGPT things. But I think we're also keyboarding as opposed to like when you journal, is it like pen to paper? Is that how you're journaling?

That's how I'm doing it. I wish I had a journal to show you, but I don't.

I don't have one in this room.

That's how I'm doing it, yes. I think we will put it in the app that goes with the gem, because it's sort of tied in. But yeah, at the moment, it's manual. But honestly, I love the— I mean, I just— I do too. Whenever there's a bit of paper, like, I'm writing, like, look at this. I write everywhere, all the time.

I do too. I'm in the process of moving. You can all see my book are cleared off the shelf back here, but I had to part with like dozens of yellow legal pads that were written through. And the point isn't that I threw away notes, it's that I needed to write them down. It was the action of doing that. That was the value.

Like, I don't look at it generally. I write so much stuff down I never look at again. It's okay, it's done its job.

I'm so glad you said that. I love it. Okay. If there's one parting thought, I want to ask a question. One more. We want to give women something tangible. So women who are struggling with, say, just the overwhelm, I think, of being a woman in midlife, there's lots of things coming at them from both ends of family and the purpose that they have. It's, it's all big. Plus she's hot flashing at her desk, she may be sleep deprived, she's stressed, she's, you know, if she has the stress in her life, she's thinking about the stress, so she's amplifying a little more. What would be one immediate, you know, 2-minute quick energy shift that she could use to feel back in control?

Yeah, it's very boring, but breathwork. Well, actually that's one, that's a free one. If you have the gem, you can basically press either relax, energize, recharge, and it'll give you a biosignature to help it. And even better if you then do it while you're doing breathwork, but it works without. That is amazing. And then I say breathwork, but it's not complicated. I don't know, people go to all these breathwork coaches and they overcomplicate it so fancy. It's so simple. If you just slow down your breath you will basically just calm down your nervous system. It's that simple. You can do all these box breathings and long breaths out, but the simple principle is just to slow your breath down.

And maybe be aware of how shallow you'd been breathing all day long and take a deep breath. Yes. Okay. So is the gem available now? How do people get their hands on it if so?

It is. And it's basically on e4l.com/gem. And if you type in a code, Debra, you'll get 10% off.

Okay. Thank you so much. Great gift for yourself. But I'm also thinking this gift-giving season, that might be something that would be worth it.

I wouldn't object if you give it to your family members.

Yes. And thank you so much. Thanks for the raw honesty and integrity that you always bring. It's always so good to speak with you.

Thank you. Thank you. It's a great interview.