How Mold Toxicity Affects Hormonal Balance During Menopause And Effective Detox Strategies

Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I have a little sleep secret I want to tell you about. Look, sleep is crucial for your fitness, but it's crucial for just plain old everyday life and function. And I find I sleep great unless I have a migraine. And I've had more than my fair share since perimenopause all the way through postmenopause. My secret weapon was Blue Sky CBD sleep gels. Each gel contains 25mg of CBD and 25mg CBN for deep restorative sleep. Something about it helps to reduce inflammation, which I believe for me was key in helping me get to sleep. But the biggest thing is so many of the over-the-counter solutions, whether for sleep or migraines, can ruin gut health, and liver health. Neither one of those did I want to be problematic for me. So this option is recommended by healthcare providers worldwide and backed by thousands of happy customers, many of whom come from our Flipping 50 community. There is zero THC, so it's non-habit-forming. It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at My Favorites. What are you waiting for? Good night. You may be in menopause, you may not have been exposed to mold, or you may not know that you've been exposed to mold. So I wanna tell everybody that here's a challenge that we all are facing right now, and that is that many of the symptoms of menopause can also be associated with, associations with toxicity or exposure to mold or Lyme disease. And so if we just very quickly say, oh, fatigue, weight gain, bloat, sensitivity to foods, feeling headaches, migraines, and we just assume that that's menopause, we could be bypassing something that really needs our attention. So stay tuned to this episode. You'll learn a lot about what mold exposure can do, what it, might feel like and why you might simply mistake your symptoms as symptoms of menopause when they could be so much more. This is not to set off alarms or be dramatic, but it does bear the time and the energy to really take a close look at this in this episode. I think you'll love it. I'll introduce you to somebody who also you may wanna follow on Instagram. If social media sometimes can trigger you, his timeline will not.

I'm Debra Atkinson, and you're listening to Flipping 50. I started this podcast over a decade ago to answer questions about fitness and menopause and beyond before you know to ask them. The goal: to help accelerate your results with the science and the practical application of proven protocols while living your best life. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman.

It's not just you, but it's the 3 generations that you influence.

My unique 40-year career, including being a university senior lecturer in kinesiology, an industry subject matter expert, an international speaker, to founder of the first and the only exclusively made-for-menopause-and-beyond fitness membership in the world. Every week I interview experts behind the science of optimal hormone-balancing fitness longevity and share answers to our community's questions so you can have the vitality and the energy you want, need, and deserve.

This podcast is absolute serendipity, no accidents. I'm sure you've experienced this before. You've got a friend who suddenly is complaining about certain side effects, symptoms, or in my case, they were exposed to mold. And I have a little history with that, so I know some colleagues who are And then all of a sudden, my podcast interview today, I open it up to the show notes my team creates for me, by the way. So I don't always know exactly till the day of when I'm doing my prep. And I'm talking about mold toxicity. So here it is. You can bet that my friend gets the 411 right after this episode. And many of you know, I create the introduction after I've done the episode interview. And that is true in this case as well. I am interviewing Dr. Jaben Moore and he is somebody who I highly admire his posts on Instagram. It's just common sense. It's just good stuff. But the really interesting thing probably that caught my eye because we're all that jump on the bandwagon, like everybody's going in line over here, I should check out what that is. And I pay attention. When a lot of people are paying attention, I'll pay attention too. And what I find is there's a lot more kind of flamboyant, dynamic, like we're trying to get your attention, controversial content out there. And his is just stable, common sense basics that you can do and that don't trigger. There's nothing triggering about his posts. And we apparently like that. And you'll know why if you go and follow. So all of his links will be in the show notes, but I can't wait to give you this introduction. Back in 2019, I was living in a house that was exposed to mold. There was a mitigation, took a little bit longer because I was up in the mountains. It was the wintertime. The big trucks couldn't always get up when they were scheduled to get up. So the delay, delay, delay, it was 4 months before it was done, quote unquote, and then it wasn't really done because I kept getting sick and I don't get sick. So 4 illnesses in about 6 weeks. I said, something's wrong here. So I had it tested with my own dime, sent the results to my landlord and said, we haven't taken care of this mold. There's still mold here. And she said, I think I'm done. I've paid enough, not doing it anymore. You should probably move. So scramble. But I'd been exposed for about 5 months to mold unbeknownst to me until the very end. You know, in that year I also was training for an Ironman, the 8th of 8 of them that I've trained for, and I was struggling. I went for runs and instead of walking out the door and doing the 6 miles and coming back an hour later, I was running 15, 20 minutes and then needed to stop and take a break. I didn't have that and that endurance anymore. And I'd been an endurance girl, certainly not fast my whole life. So I am so wanting to draw this parallel for you that mold doesn't always look like you having asthma or you getting sick, but it may look like a simple symptom that might be mistaken for menopause, or as in my case, something mysterious. Like, why would this be happening to me? Right now. My guest today, Dr. Jaben Moore, is a doctor of chiropractic located in Kansas City who works virtually with clients through functional medicine to assist them in overcoming chronic health conditions. At age 25, he went from being an award-winning college athlete to not being able to get out of bed. He sought out countless doctors looking for answers, but doctors only gave him band-aid solutions. He was later diagnosed with Lyme disease. Once he overcame his complex infection, he dedicated his practice to helping clients discover the causes of their symptoms. Dr. Moore specializes in Lyme disease, PANS/PANDAS, autism, parasitic infections, and environmental toxicities. Dr. Moore and his team at the Redefining Wellness Center see clients virtually. Visit his website where you can access the education, live videos, and Programs, and you may have seen him if you spend any time on Instagram. His thread is amazing, an amazing source of common sense, super simple. And that is actually how I stumbled across him. It is like, why are not more of us saying this? Why are we just not keeping it simple? Because over and over it is the same down-to-earth, common sense, easy things that we should all be doing, starting with the basics, not making it complicated. I think you're going to love this episode whether or not you've had mold or Lyme or you're dealing with something really incestuous like an infection or something that is an environmental toxicity otherwise. I think that you will appreciate this discussion with Dr. Moore, so I hope you tune in. Dr. Jay Ben Moore, thanks so much for being here.

Oh, thanks for having me.

Well, I actually made you run some intervals and hurdles to get here. I think we've rescheduled this a couple of times, but I was really stalking you. Everybody heard me on the intro introduce you and then tell the story about needing to go and follow you on Instagram because you spew common sense day after day after day. And, you know, my question is always to myself, Why are we not all talking about this simplicity a little bit more often? Because frankly, you don't say anything that's rocket science, but it is like we're all trying to jump ahead and read encyclopedias before we even got the alphabet down. Tell me about your philosophy. I mean, is that just who you are at heart and how you operate?

I like to keep things simple. I like to make things palatable and understandable for the common man. My dad was a 40-year concrete construction guy. I was a personal trainer while going through school, and I just realized when you go through school to become a doctor, you learn to speak Latin and you confuse the crap out of everybody. And it's just, it's not an effective way to help people to be able to, you know, manage their own health, understand what they're doing, and be passionate about it. So yeah, my, my social media We can get into the deep ravines of health and talk about mold and radioactive elements in the water, and we can talk about genetics and all of these really interesting things, and I can go deep in labs, and I love to. I usually hold that back a little bit more for a podcast or for a conversation that's specific to a client because on social media, I'm like, you know, in reality, if you simply just Eat well, regulate your nervous system, make sure you're getting the appropriate nutrients in. You're probably going to feel pretty good when you're avoiding toxins on top of that. I mean, that's just the truth, and it can be simple. Unfortunately, most people that I work with, we gotta dig them out of a hole first, but then it's just like, let's just do the good things, let's enjoy life.

So true, love that. And your story really is quite intriguing. So College athlete. What sport?

I did track and field. I was a shot put thrower.

Wow.

Okay.

And then you go from that to not being able to get out of bed. What happened? How were you exposed to Lyme?

So interestingly enough, Lyme was my— let's call it my origin story for a number of years into this field. Right. We all have our origins. Or why are you doing what you're doing here? I thought I was going to be an athlete. And then I was like, I'm going to go to chiropractic school and I'm going to help other athletes. And then, I got sick and it led me down this path of functional medicine. Because when I was 25 years old, I had graduated from college, multiple-time All-American. So, I was okay, I was fit, I was athletic to some degree. I was a big boy, but I could move. And then, I lost all that weight, I got as fit as I could be, I had abs and I was like, "Yes, I look good." And I'm thinking, life is going to be good. And I crashed and burned. And I, you know, erectile dysfunction to pain to brain fog to fatigue. And it was, you know, Lyme that was the first thing that was found. But when I looked back in my history, I realized that the symptoms began when I was living in a basement in college that had mold 6 inches up a wall. And, I started to realize as I was on a podcast 2, 3 years ago, I was like, "So, the mold made me vulnerable." And then, I was outside all the time because I was in track. So, I was constantly walking through the grass picking up my discus or my hammer throw or my javelin. So, getting ticks was an inevitability. It wasn't like— it was all the time. So, it was just the fact that I had the perfect storm of living in mold while going through school that was stressful, while, um, you know, all that happened. So yeah, Lyme was my story for a long time. And that's as I've been learning more about mold over the last decade, I'm like, yep, that was probably a piece of the trigger.

Wow. Okay. So speaking of trigger, so we have this common denominator, uh, that we didn't need to have happen actually, but, uh, so in 2019, I was still living in the mountains in Boulder, Colorado, loving my life, loving the view out my window at 8,800 feet, not loving when it still snowed 2 feet in May. But you know, you take the good and bad. And the house I was renting at the time flooded, the basement septic tank backed up. And you know, it took about 4 or 5 months of mitigation. And then I realized when they were done, I was still getting sick and I never get sick. And so it you know, unraveled. Landlord finally was like, no, no, no, I'm not paying anymore. You should probably just move, you know. So like, okay, and fast, got to get out of here. So talk to me specifically if we can dig into this, because again, no, no accidents, but just had a friend say, bought a new house, garage flooded, I've been exposed to mold. Who knew? And What's the difference with mold exposure, or is there some, with women going through menopause at this peak of hormonal chaos?

Well, let's, let's just talk about what this is. Mold toxin. Your liver needs to be able to detoxify to get outta your body. It's immune and, and physiologically both inflammatory. So it can trigger an autoimmune reaction, but can also trigger just an inflammation reaction. Mold, you know, we're saying a singular word, but this is hundreds, if not thousands, of different types of molds and mycotoxin strains that you could potentially be exposed to. With each one, just like each chemical or each heavy metal, creates different symptoms. So I once had a woman come in, and I, I actually just ran into her again. I hadn't seen her in probably a year. She was chronic fatigue, She was menopausal. She was 50 years old. She didn't feel good in any way. She was not the weight she wanted to be and just, you know, hit 50 and the floor fell out, right? That's, that's what so many people say out there. And I don't believe that for one second. Here's why. Comes in the clinic, we do all of our testing, we check and see what's going on. We start detoxing. About 3 months in, she walks in, she's like, I got a bone to pick with you. And I'm like, what'd I do? I feel like my mom's in here mad at me. Um, at the time I think I was like 32 or something, you know, and she's like, I started menstruating again. She's like, I haven't menstruated in 3 years, but that'll do it. And I was just like, sorry. Um, I think I go, you wanted to feel younger. And so I saw her at a wedding just recently, and she immediately brought that up in the pool the moment that we were at this wedding. Um, and, and I just laughed because I was like, you know what, I'm still kind of proud about that. You got it back for a year or two. It was time of life where it was supposed to be fading. But that just showed that, like, when you remove stress— and in her case, mold was a piece of it, Epstein-Barr was another piece of it from the body, the body will actually start doing what it's supposed to be doing. So for all the women listening, if you have symptoms and let's say you're 35 to 55 of menopause fatigue, brain fog, inflammation, anxiety, depression, all of this, there's probably a cause for it. And it doesn't just mean it's a change of life. There can actually be a cause for it. Now, if you're 50 to 55, sure. That's when the change of life is starting to happen. But also, you know how many women I work with from around the world, like not United States based, but around the world that they're like, yeah, menopause isn't even a problem for us. Like I'll ask them the questions and they're just like, yeah, it's not really a thing here. I'm like, oh, interesting. So if we're not in a toxic soup and we're not stressed by mold and we're not stressed in our nervous systems where your adrenals can't kick up and start making hormones for you, Then it's not this huge big, like, 40 to 50, like, is the death of the woman, like, as far as, like, feeling well and happy and healthy. And they're like, no, you just lose the menstruation and keep on rolling. So yeah, I didn't hit on that too much. We can go way deeper.

No, and I do want to come back to that because I think that there are probably a lot of women who, who may have been exposed and don't know it. And so they're having some of these symptoms and amplified symptoms and can't figure out why are mine so much worse. And I think sometimes the default is, well, if it's not my obvious lifestyle choices, it's genetics. And so there's that, I'm just gonna blame it on that, right? But I also, I just wanna throw this in. So back in 2019, there was a study published by ACOG, American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, for listeners, on 1 million women in menopause. And of course it was globos worldwide. There was no correlation with weight, body fat changes, and menopause. And so, you know, we can't discount that somebody's listening and they went into perimenopause or postmenopause and gained weight, but we do have to look at that as, okay, this is empowering. There's a reason for it. So let's look for that, and we can get back into where we want to be, knowing there's somebody out there who's done it differently. A lot of somebodies if they studied a million women. So I super appreciate you saying that. What would be some common symptoms, and do they overlap menopause so much that we would just bypass them and right now say, oh well, that's what that is, because we all of a sudden have this heightened awareness because thank you, Oprah, you know, but everybody's aware of what are those symptoms and signs of perimenopause. I think it makes it easy for us to just say, oh, that's what that is.

Yeah. So if you want to get a list of the most common thought of symptoms, so let's just do that mainstream medicine, mainstream world. What is mold? It's asthma and allergies. It's breathing, coughing. That's what it is. What mold really is is a toxic product from— well, here, let's back up for a second. Mold is a fungus that grows on, say, your walls, your food, your flooring, whatever. And, there's many different types of mold. They produce spores and they produce mycotoxins. And, those go into the air and you breathe them or you eat them. And, And each type can do different things, but my average mold 45, 50-year-old female comes in my clinic where they feel a little burnt out and overwhelmed because mold is draining the energy from them because it's affecting their mitochondria. Their cortisol levels are usually elevated, which is stress hormones that can cause weight gain. It causes a little bit of bloating because it's dysregulating your immune system, allowing the GI tract to get out of balance. Mm-hmm. You are anxious because you feel unsafe. You're depressed because you have an inflamed brain, and it may not be heavy because you're getting in and out of it when you leave the house and come back. So, right, there's like times that are up and down. You're tired, you're fatigued, you're getting sick a little more often. You're a little irritable because you're stressed from the mold. Your sleep pattern is changing because that stress that created the cortisol is blocking melatonin. So you don't sleep as well. And mold doesn't just happen to every person where you walk into a house, you get a headache and you're done. Sometimes it's you move into a house that's not well and it takes 6 months or a year to finally break you down enough. So no longer do you think it's the mold or the house, because if you, if you moved in and immediately started getting migraines, you're like, something's wrong with the house. If it takes a year, then you've ruled that out. Out where I haven't ruled out just because of my experiences, or you get that new job or you have that new car or you had that hurricane in Florida and it went by and, you know, for the next 3 months things were fine until that mold grew and grew and grew and then off-gassed in your house. So it's sneaky like that. And it also allows for these other problems to happen. So it's recurrent infections. It's a recurrent UTI for some people because their immune system is weaker, recurrent SIBO or H. pylori. Or pinworms or itchiness. So those things can be the more immune side of it. But every type of mold affects your body a little differently. So therefore, if you have Stachybotrys, the really bad black mold that they all talk about, you're probably gonna have like all of that. But if it's Aspergillus penicilloides or, uh, Chaetonium, like it's— they're gonna have different stresses on your body. Based off of what they stress, but also based off of your genetic types. Because if you have MTHFR or COMT, which affects hormones a lot, or HLA-DR genetic types, you're going to be more vulnerable to toxins. So therefore you're going to have less of an ability to fight it. So if that's you and let's say your husband, children are fine, but you have a slow COMT gene, so MTHFR, then you can't tolerate the environment as well.

Got it. Okay, so unfortunately, a lot of those symptoms that you mentioned, women may just pass off, right? And so for years you may live with that, maybe until— Dr. Moore, is it going to get worse and worse? And so you reach a critical tipping point and you can't anymore pass this off as menopause, and you, you're so sick that you have to do something?

Yeah, I mean, eventually you're likely to continue to progress because it's basically the way I imagine this for me, and the way I give analogies to clients is just like, imagine putting a backpack on, and in that backpack, all the stress that you've had in your life that you're still carrying is in that backpack. If you've done a really good job at releasing stress and trauma and those sorts of things, then maybe you're not carrying much when you into this, let's say, this moldy house. And when I say moldy house, I mean that big, beautiful, brand new, 4-bed, 3-bath, 2-car garage, immaculately redone home that they didn't remove the mold from the studs on the inside of the wall so you can't see it. That house. Or the brand new lakefront, beachfront, or near beach house that has some leaks in the ceiling that leak in between the walls that you don't see ever. Or that brand new updated house with the top-of-the-line dishwasher and washer and dryer that's front load, that mold grows all over the inside of it on the ceiling, you can't see it. So those are the houses that we're talking about moving into, or the appliances you're bringing into your home. But the the, the symptoms will build because you move in and you just take, you just take this big 40-pound rock and you put in your backpack. And although most of the women I know, by the time they get to menopause, they've built some, some strong backs, they can carry a lot, that starts to weigh on you. And if you've got any genetic markers that are off, or if you have any post-trauma from life, or, you know, you, you really like doing your hair and your nails and wearing makeup that has some toxins in it that are estrogen blockers, or, you know, you, you work too much, like you got to provide for your family. Like, if any of these things— those are some more rocks that can go in there. The toxins from the hair or the products, or maybe you like your Botox. And hey, if you want to do that, that's fine, but we just know that it's a stress to your body. So the way that my brain says is, like, your backpack, you can carry, you can carry a limited amount of things. And then once mold goes in there with some of that other stuff, it starts getting real heavy. And as you— as that gets heavy, it suppresses your immune system. And then you start getting, in my case, Lyme disease, and other people's case, SIBO or H. pylori or Candida yeast. And they just start stacking. And eventually you can't get up and no longer can you blame menopause. And now you're chronically ill. You have chronic fatigue, you have fibromyalgia, you get diagnosed with IBS. And by the way, all those diagnoses I just said are you have a symptom, and nobody has an answer for you of what it is. So they gave you a title that gives you no path forward besides to accept what you have or it's in your head.

Mm-hmm. Agree. Not a good place to be. At what point should a woman, or would you recommend that a woman test to see if it's mold? Do you have a question for a podcast?

A question you'd love to ask, or maybe a story you want to tell. Did you know we have a special group just for podcast question roundups and the answers? My community coaches and I provide answers daily inside of this group, but it's also where I go when I occasionally say, okay, open call for podcast questions, or tell your story. Would you like to be a guest? So if you're looking for a community of women who are also interested in optimizing their health, strengthening their mindset and looking forward to every new year. Join the Flipping 50 Insiders group. That's Flipping 50 Insiders on Facebook.

If you're listening right now and I ask you these questions, I ask these questions all my clients. On a scale of 0 to 10, 10 would be in the hospital, 0 would be none at all. Would you say that your fatigue level is over a 3? On average, like for an average week, you know, not like one day because maybe you stayed up too late having fun with the girls or you, you know, had to stay up with your kid overnight because they're sick, something like that. Not that the average. Are you above a 3 on brain fog, fatigue, digestive issues, body pain? If you're over a 3, there needs to be a look. And the reason why I say 3 is we all have— we're all living life, right? Life is gonna have a little bit of symptom here and there. Although I would say I feel really great at 39, like I don't hurt most of the time, and where I do hurt or when I am tired, I usually know why. Like there's a reason, an explainable reason that's not I'm getting older. And I know I'm not old at 39, but I've got 50 and 60-year-old women that are like, I'm training for my marathon, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and they're not superwomen, they're average women. But we've looked at their labs, we've made sure their environment's clean, they, they eat mostly well, say 80% of time. They still go out and have a glass of wine with friends or something. I'm not asking people to be perfect. So if you're over a 3, consider looking at your health. Mold is a piece of it.

Okay.

So, and where would a woman best do that? Does she need to do that through a physician, or can she order a test, find out if she needs to pursue something greater with a doctor and a path.

If you have a consistent health problem, my, my opinion at this point is find a qualified health practitioner. Doesn't need to be an MD or, you know, a physician, but find somebody that knows what they're looking for, that knows how to read the labs and is interested in getting to the bottom of your situation. Because I've ran into a lot of DIYers and, and they're smart and they're educated and they did all the things, The difference of why I had success with them and they may not have is I don't treat myself. I go to my friends in the profession that aren't going to have a bias toward me, that are going to push me to do the hard things. And that's not saying that I wouldn't do them for myself. It's just I want to— I want somebody with a non-biased opinion to help. And the second part was I worked with like 7,000 people. So I get to see patterns, and patterns is, is half the battle. Those consistent patterns of if your mitochondrial panel on an organic acid test shows more than 2 markers, it doesn't mean you have mold, but it's most common with mold or radioactive elements in your body. And I, I've just seen this enough that for me, that's a ding, ding, ding, go look. Deeper at this other thing. If you have a B2 deficiency in your urine, I only see that with mold. Only. That's the only thing I see it with. So that doesn't mean you have mold, but it's highly correlative with the testing that I've ran. And that helps me to go, hmm, maybe I should go further into the mold realm. So working with somebody that has just been around the block a lot. I mean, they've just done it. You know, just like in one of my masterclasses, I put a picture of an electrician up and I'm like, who's here ready to go rewire their entire electrical box? Are you going to hire someone? What's more complicated, wiring an electrical box or rewiring the body? There's a lot more going on in the body than electrical box. I still not doing the box on my own. I'm still hiring for it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, totally. Okay. So I would ask you this next question. I'm gonna assume we can answer in part, like what do you recommend for detox strategies? We figure out we've got mold, it's an issue we need to tackle. You know, how do we get it out? How do we heal from it, detox from it? I would assume part of it is reducing our exposure. Like maybe we reduce the Botox, the nails, the coloring the hair, the chemicals in the makeup, clean our act up there. But are there things we put in or activities we do that also help to detox?

Absolutely. So I'm going to take you right down my, what I call my roadmap. And this is, this is what I do with every single person I see. We develop a roadmap based off of their labs. So we do the starter things like, are you deficient in nutrients? Many people dealing with mold, they'll over time start getting depleted in glutathione. Yeah, potassium, sodium, because their body's stressed. They start getting dysregulated autonomically if they've been there long enough. So they start having weakness and harder to breathe and lack of resilience and energy. Those sorts of things are like the extreme. It's been a long time. So if we find those depletions, we start to bring those back in because that starts to turn on the machinery of the body and get it going. Many of them are B12 deficient, so they don't methylate well because the mold has suppressed that. It doesn't have to be genetic. It can simply just be suppression. Then I, in my second place, is stress. That's the second portion. So it's the starters, those beginning things, and then it's the stressors. Stressors can be like, do you have childhood trauma that needs to be dealt with? We can get you into some limbic retraining. The second part is going to be organisms, and we go in an order. Now, you may not have all of these things, but the most common order I have seen, which works 70% of the time: parasite, bacteria, mold, mycoplasma, radioactive elements, environmental toxins, metals, viruses, and fungus, meaning like Candida. That is the order of which 70% of the time I will go, assuming if you had all of them, right? Most people don't have all of them, so we just run our labs, do our tests, figure out which ones we need to deal with. And so roadmap's built, we know what we're dealing with. Starting step 1 is strip your environment of retox, the things you mentioned. Get rid of the toxins in your environment: air, food, water, hygiene products, dental, and implants. Those are the 6 places I'm looking for the toxins. I'm just going to tap into the water one because that's one that doesn't get talked about nearly enough. Go to ewg.org, look up the water database for your local municipality. If you're on a well, still look it up for the ones closest to you. And if they see uranium, uranium, radium, cesium, or thallium, these are radioactive elements. Nothing but this day specifically, distiller will remove that. Distiller, only distiller, right? RO doesn't do it. Carbon doesn't do it. Ionization doesn't do it. None of that does it. Your tabletop thing doesn't do it. I've had lots of people claim that those things do it. We put those in. We retest the person afterward, still find it. Water testing companies I have not found to do a great job with uranium, unfortunately. So that's why I have such a strong opinion of just go to the distiller if it's in your water supply, because water testing is probably what is going to cost you to buy a distiller anyway when you get a really quality water test. So then we go into— after that section I call Safe Place. So making your environment clean and safe. We're stopping the retox. Okay. Now we go to the nervous system and we get the nervous system retrained. So if you feel like you're anxious, depressed, fight or flight, irritable, overwhelmed, we got to get some mindset work going. Some brain physical therapy is what I call it. I use Primal Trust. And then I get into the supplementation, which is what you asked about. And I, I took you on a journey around to get there. But my third piece that I'm going to be working with people on is actually the detox portion. So the first step was bringing the nutrients in we needed. The second part is opening up the drainage pathways, which means making sure your lymph is drained. So do you have rashes or itching or swelling in your lymph nodes? We got to work toward that. Some of the ways you can do that is dry brushing, castor oil pack. Other ways you can do it is a supplement like LymphActive, um, doing massage, lymph massage, Flowpresso is a machine you can use. So moving those paths so that you can get the toxins out. You have to poop every day. And then we got to support your liver with things like milk thistle, NAC. Tudca Max is a phenomenal liver product that I love. That is a newer product on the market for the liver. Once we have the drainage open, so replenish, open drainage, now we're going to detox. If you had the parasites or bacteria, we're going to work on those first. Since today we're talking mold, I'm just going to skip those two for the moment. We're going to go to mold. I use a number of different things. Oregano is great. I pair that with ileoceum, which is an herb. That's one of the different mold protocols I use. I have another one called AFNG from Byron White that I like to use as an antimicrobial. I just found a couple of more. So there's a homeopathic version, a little more gentle from DesBio. These are all three antimicrobials. So they're working on the fungus inside. But while you're doing that, you have to bind the toxin, which is the mycotoxin, the spores. You have to bind those up and move them out. So that's why it was so important to have drainage open. We use carboxy as a binder. Sometimes you can use like a pectisol or Takasumi. These are all different binders, and I rotate through those to help bind the actual toxin piece. And then we got to make sure your bowels are still moving, your lymph is still moving, your liver is still strong to get all of that out. But I just don't want people to lose the fact that when you have the full roadmap, if there's parasites, bacteria, metals, mold's a part of it. It's not the only part. So you got to have the full spectrum and you have to flush all of it. Even if mold was your trigger, sometimes to get your body back to balance, you're going to have to tackle some of those other pieces.

Hmm. So interesting. So are there biohacking tools? Do you like infrared sauna? Other things that— do they really help and are they it?

You know, we use a lot of different biohacks. I am probably not your standard, let me sit on here with my fun glasses and I have them. I do. Here's my Bon Charge glasses that I got, but I don't typically start the podcast out because everything looks orange. But if it was later at night, then we could do this to decrease the blue light coming in, right? But is it worth all the biohacks? When you're working with me, I'm going to give you a very particular set of ones that may work for you depending upon your situation. If you can get a sauna to 160 degrees, it will denature mold mycotoxins and actually help to get them out of your body. So that can be beneficial if you can tolerate that. If you're dysautonomic and you have low sodium potassium, we're not going to start there. Red light can increase mitochondrial function, which allows for you to detox better, have more energy, and recover faster. If you can tolerate the red light, which most people can. That's usually a very easily tolerated one. Is it necessary? Most of the time, neither are necessary for progress, but they can accelerate getting to well. You can do things like EBOO, which is something you got to go to an in-office clinic for. You hook up your body to an IV, you pump your blood through a machine that filters it and puts ozone into it. So it's cleaning your blood for you. So it's just accelerating that detox process. I don't use a lot of hyperbaric with mold, which is another big one. PEMF can help your body just with the electromagnetic pulses, which is what PEMF is, to detox out. So that can be a fun tool. Again, none of these I find to be typically necessary. I go back to the more simple ones like dry brushing and castor oil pack. Sometimes we'll get to a coffee enema on an occasion. They're— for most people, you don't have to go all out in the biohacking realm, but you, you can. And people ask me all the time, like, how do I accelerate this? Okay, let's do that. If you're really dysregulated, one of my favorites right now is called neural therapy. It's taking procaine, which is a more natural version of anesthetic, and it's injecting it around your autonomic nerves, which would be like your stellate ganglion, your vagus nerve, your cervical ganglia, your mesenteric ganglia in your abdomen, and you inject this. And it just, for a lack of a better way to explain it, it's a quick reset to your nervous system. So if you've moved out and you've gotten in your safe environment, your body can now recognize, oh, I'm safe, and stop acting like it's still in danger, because sometimes it gets stuck.

Interesting. Wow. Okay, so the, the million-dollar question right now is, how long does this take? Right. And I'm sure this is variable, but you know, which piece, right?

Like, I tend to do 3 to 4 months of mold-specific detox in my roadmap, but how many other steps am I working on with you? How sensitive are you? So are you one of those people where just a little bit of herb and you get a side effect? We're going to take a lot longer. Like, I work with a lot of those people. Those people are called mast cell SIRS, multiple chemical sensitivities. Like, they have those types of diagnoses. If you're like I can still drink a glass of wine and have no repercussions because it's a toxin, which means that you are probably still detoxing. You're not having a massive histamine reaction. That gives me a positive outlook of you being able to tolerate more. If you can take whatever supplement you're like, yeah, I never have a negative reaction, at least not that you notice, we're going to be able to move much quicker. So then I go into the testing. How many of those bullet points that I went through, the parasite, bacteria, mold, etc., do we have? And each bullet point for me is about 2 protocols, which could be a month-ish long if you're moving at full speed. So I've seen people recover in 6 months from being very ill, and I've seen people take 3 or 4 years that were extremely sensitive and very complex. Wow.

Let me ask you something that is not necessarily talked about. It's not necessarily a common symptom, but I have seen it enough in our menopause population, and I, I saw it not knowing, not putting this together until I saw it enough and then experienced it myself. So there's something called exercise intolerance. Oh yeah, are you— yeah, so I mean, it's related with people with congenital heart issues, but I've seen it happen in women in menopause who've never had like an asthma problem before, and all of a sudden they too maybe have great— been, been great athletes, super active I was training for an Ironman, and the 8th one, and I'm like, I can't run 15 or 20 minutes without needing to stop. Like, what is going on? Related, related to mold? What is that?

So that's just, uh, you know, go back to my backpack analogy. Yeah. How far are you gonna run with a full backpack of stones? Yeah, right. That backpack weighs 100 pounds. You're not going very far, right? So we need to start emptying those stones out. If mold's one of them, pluck that sucker out of there. Let's get rid of it. If all the, the— let's just call it, uh, beauty toxins are another one, like, are you willing to pull that one out, or do we need to pull everything else out and you want to keep that one? And that's okay if that's where you are, and, and you live your life, it's your body. And I'm just going to tell you the risk factors of these things. I've got women that I work with, they're like, look, I'm going to keep dyeing my hair. I am a news anchor. That's fine. I'm totally fine with that. But, you know, it's toxic. We're still going to have to work on these other things. So you're going to have to drink that clean water. And I just— I have in my memory there's a woman that came in. That was her. Her husband had been working with me. They'd already changed their water. She has a distiller, didn't like the distilled water because it didn't taste like the tap water, which was a little bit metally. I'm like, well, if you're going to keep doing your hair, then you've got to negotiate with me and go to the cleaner water. Right. And for her, she wasn't super ill. She was, she was 55 years old and, you know, just feeling what she said was 55. I'm like, I go, well, why don't we then get you back to like 30? Because your symptoms are way higher than they should be. You know, I had another woman come in. It was hilarious, actually. She was so awesome. She was so much fun to work with. And I remember we got all the way to the end of her protocol and she'd gone from wanting me to run hormone tests. And can we start with, for her, because of her history, Lyme and mold. We found Lyme mold. We dealt with those things. We get all the way to the end of like what I thought the care plan was and her fatigue was still rated like a 4. And I'm like, why are you like, what makes you a 4 still? She's like, well, I wake up at 4:00 AM and by 10:00 at night when I'm trying to you know, just spend time with my husband. I'm exhausted. I'm falling asleep. And I go, that's normal. Yeah, like, that's just normal. I'm like, you've been awake for 18 hours. Like, that's normal. She's like, huh? And I go, go ask all your friends and compare yourself to them. And she did. She came back, she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so much healthier than everyone else. And I was just like, yep. I go, yeah, I thought that might be what you found. I go, you need to give yourself more sleep because a woman typically based off hormonal needs needs not the 7 hours of sleep, but they need usually like the 8 to 10. Men can get away with a little bit less because we make hormones differently. We're just different organisms as far as hormones and sleep needs. And it was just funny. It was so funny. But Yeah, I think, I think that the moral of my story there is just like, you should feel good and you should not, should not let being 50 stop you from exercising. Exercise intolerance is just a full backpack.

That's what it is. Yeah. So good. That was so great.

Awesome.

Where can listeners follow you, catch up with you, and just pull in some of your great common sense advice.

I am posting every day. One of my missions— I was asked a while ago, what's my goal? And I didn't really know what like that big huge goal was. And then I just stepped back, I go, I remember when I was not feeling well, I just wanted somebody to give me an answer. Even if they couldn't solve it, just give me an answer. Just tell me what's going on so I can understand it. So my, my big goal is to give 1 billion people informed consent, meaning educate you on whatever the thing is. Let's call it mold. Let's call it hygiene products so that you can make the decision on your own of what you want to do. And that will allow you to know and decide and have control over your own health. So if you, if you want to work with me or learn more, just follow me by my name. It's D-R period J-A-B as in boy A-N Moore, Dr. Jaben Moore. We're on basically every social media at this point, launching a podcast here soon. And, uh, we have a website, all the same name.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time and for the goodness you put out. So if anybody's got some fatigue from social media, but you can't keep yourself from going, he's got some great common sense. It's not going to trigger you. I promise it's going to make you realize This is easier than I'm making it. There you go. Thanks again.

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