How Much Collagen Counts Toward Protein Needs?

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It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at My Favorites. What are you waiting for? Good night. Just how much collagen do you need? How much collagen counts toward your daily protein need? We're going to dive into that, and here's why that is an excellent question. It truly does matter. There are a couple things to keep in mind with protein, so let's look at the big view first. It's like a prescription med in that if you don't have enough of it, you don't get the benefit. Like, you would never take a prescription medication and just say, oh, you know, even though they said I should have one at breakfast, one at lunch, and one at dinner, I'm not just going to cut this one in half and have it throughout the morning. You would never do that. And likewise with protein, if you don't get enough for the muscle protein synthesis, that is the ability to boost an anabolic reaction in the muscle so you can preserve the muscle you have, meaning keep it, keep it, and/or gain more. You may support satiety, keep yourself full, and you may support your blood sugar level by having less than that muscle protein synthesis stimulus of protein, but you still wouldn't be gaining lean muscle mass or potentially positively affecting your body composition. So choose your goal, know what that is and what you need to do in order to achieve it. Second, the other concept I want you to think about is not all protein is created equal. And look, if this is news to you, you are not alone. Very recently someone said, well, what about the protein in vegetables? Does that count to our daily intake? And the answer to that is no. Unfortunately, yes, every food food we consume has small proteins in it. However, when we talk about food groups, we're talking about the carbs and the fat and the protein. We're talking about very specific protein sources that are highly concentrated in essential amino acids, and we're going to talk a lot about that today because this is the crucial part of knowing, do you have enough? Or do you have too much collagen and protein combined, and could it be a detriment? So animal protein per calorie has a far higher level of essential amino acid than does plant, a far higher quality level. All animal protein is not even the same. So if you recall, and you've been here for a minute, this was years ago. Potentially 5, maybe even longer. An early interview that I did with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, we talked about, and she, she listed this as this is a way to look at where's the highest quality of essential amino acids in animals. And if it runs, it's the highest. So we're talking, you know, cows and pigs and bison and elk. And then there's if it flies. So may not fly very well, but duck and turkey and chicken. And then there's, or if it swims. And although, yes, I love salmon, right? I love crab and I love scallops and halibut and cod and white ruffian, all the things. But comparing, if calorie per calorie you wanted to look at, how can I I eat the least amount of food, reducing my calories, and not necessarily is it the goal, but still get the highest quality of protein, you would choose beef or bison over crab and shrimp. And even though in taking the crab and the shrimp in, you're getting lower fat, that's not necessarily always the goal. Fat is good for satiety. We know But you and I may have a hard time adopting this thinking because we heard otherwise for so long. We now know saturated fat is not the evil culprit that it once was believed to be. And this was news about 20 years ago. We realized it wasn't the saturated fat. It was that we went through an era where we were taking in saturated fat and carbohydrates. And I'm not talking about our high-quality resistant starches that we speak so much of lately, like brown rice and, and sweet potatoes and quinoa and butternut squash— those kinds of high-quality sources. We were taking in carbs in terms of SnackWell's cookies and still consuming our saturated fats in our diet elsewhere. And that combination of carbohydrate and saturated And that is actually what we believe did the majority of the damage where we've got now obese children, more so than their parents, who may not, who may not outlive their parents. I mean, that's a terrible situation. But when we looked back at why, you know, and this was again back in the early 2000s when I was interviewing experts on this obesity epidemic that's come out in the last 25 years, this was one of the biggest pieces that we had to look at. So remember, not all animal protein is the same. You don't necessarily want to look at, you know, eliminating something simply because it has fat. You know, eggs, shrimp both have cortisol— or I'm sorry, not cortisol, a C word— cholesterol. Thank you. But that doesn't mean it gives you high cholesterol. It's— they're two different things. The highest quality micronutrients is in the egg yolk. So we really have to take a second look at our beliefs because of what we were once taught, and it— some of that stays with us even though science has disproven it. What we learned once, it's hard to shake. So I just want you to be open to the fact that let's just keep an open mind and learn what's true today, what we really know today. So collagen protein is animal, but it is a lower level essential amino acid profile than plant-based. For instance, high-quality plant-based like a pea-based protein. Not all collagen protein is complete essential amino acid offering source, but even so, even when it is, if you're thinking just because on the label it says contains all essential amino acids, that does not mean it's the same level of sitting down to a hamburger or a steak or, or a piece of salmon for that matter. It's deceptive unless you know how much to ask— how much of that essential amino acid is there. That's the important thing. If you're thinking adding that scoop of collagen to your coffee covers your protein needs for the morning, you'd be vastly mistaken. And you may wonder, why am I not seeing progress? So we're going to unpack this in today's episode and a lesser-known fact that a protein digestibility corrected amino acid score could also have an effect on your ability to use what you consume. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50, where I address your top struggles and concerns, but most of all, we hope to uplift you and open the door to a new way of thinking, a new way of therefore maybe sleeping, exercising, or eating that supports your lean muscle, your bone density, and your brain health so you have optimal energy. Not to quote-unquote exercise better, but to live better. If you exercise well, that's what it's all about, is the living of life, not getting better at the gym. Can we all agree on that? Thank you very much. Okay, so by the way, if you're not in a program and you need a little support, we happen to be open while I'm recording for the next enrollment for our 12 Weeks Stronger program. It's a bestseller. A lot of women finish that program saying, this is the first time I've stuck with it and did it to the very end. It's doable, it's realistic, and it is based on science, only featuring women in menopause. Let's dive in. First of all, unpacking all this about collagen and answering the question how much, let's talk a little bit about the ABCs. More than 20 strains of collagen have been identified. And these 5 that I'm going to cover for you are the most common in those that are sitting on the shelves that you may be staring at, whether it's literally or virtually. As we know, we order things that are delivered to our front door today so very much. But Type 1 collagen is present in our bones and our muscles. So if you are looking for, how do I keep my bones a little bit stronger, I want to benefit through muscle strength, resilience, recovery, that Type 1 is what you're looking for. Cartilage and bone, Type 2. And now a lot of collagen that has Type 1 is probably also going to have Type 1 and 2, knowing that's what people are looking for. And you also potentially want Type 5 if you can find it. Type 3 is blood vessels and other what we call hollow organs. So basically just the vessels, it's actually strengthening the walls of it. Type 4 is skin. And when we look at type 3, just backing up one minute, so vessels, you also might look at your gut health for that. Type 5, prime protein in skeletal muscle and corneal stroma. So looking at, um, what do you want specifically? Is this for your hair, skin, and nails? You know, then you probably are looking for something that's really focused on type 4. And if you're looking for bones and muscles, cartilage, bone resilience, repair, you know, there are, uh, individuals who will swear that I've been taking collagen, I, I broke a bone and I healed really quickly, surprising all my doctors. And, you know, I don't know if it was this or not, but I swear by it and I'm not going to stop taking it in regards to their collagen. So thinking about that, because we do lose our collagen production as we age. So it's vital. And when you start seeing that, a lot of times for women, when they really drop down and kind of fall off the edge in regard to their estrogen production, we're no longer doing that, we're no longer getting as much. There's a drastic change in our collagen at about that point. It's where you see this, the skin thinning Maybe it's around your eyes, your neck, your décolleté, or it also can be where you never used to see cellulite and now you do. And that is not that it never was there. Potentially you may be increasing in body fat or losing muscle. However, most of us have collagen from, from our 20s. We had collagen and it's normal, but a lot of us, we don't see that. It is what we call subcutaneous or just under the skin fat. And the reason we're seeing it as we age much more is because our skin is thinning and the elastic, basically fasteners from your fascia and muscle to the skin, are, you know, very visible. That's why it begins to look like a mattress, or some will say cottage cheese, right? I prefer mattress. I don't know, maybe it's a dairy thing, but it's why we see it. So collagen can be great for all of those things, the lining on your gut being one of those. So, so many reasons you can, can take it or benefit from it, but you may want to look very specifically at why am I doing it, why am I really wanting this? Not just should I be taking collagen, you know, but do I want that? And if I do, why do I want it? For my muscle, my bones, my cartilage? And if you're someone who's suffering from achy joints and you want a little bit more benefit, I would certainly say that's something I would look at. Type 1 in our bodies, what was present in your bones and your muscles, represents about 90% of the total collagen content of our body, just to give you an idea. So the distribution of type 2, 3, 4, and 5, and all of those 20 strange, is just a fraction of that. There is something in a term that I want you to understand. It is PDC-AAS. Now that looks better on paper than it sounds on an audio, but it stands for Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score. So as you hint in the term, protein digestibility corrected, right? Meaning how much are you consuming, so, of the amino acids that you actually are digesting and therefore absorbing. Collagen protein lacks one indispensable amino acid. It's tryptophan. And often, again, there are now collagen brands and products on the market that will say contains all of the essential amino acids, and therefore it's categorized— if it doesn't have that tryptophan in it, it would be categorized as incomplete. It would be categorized as complete if it does contain it. However, just go back to what I said earlier, is just because they're all in there doesn't mean they're as high as if you were having bison or steak or venison, if, if it's in a protein powder of some kind. So it's important for you to realize we're talking about the difference of a small town skyline versus a New York City skyline, okay? And in collagen, you really, if you're going to take it, you want a high skyline profile, particularly if you're doing it for muscle. But if you are doing this for muscle building, what I want you to really realize is we need to be going for a different kind of protein. So when you choose protein powders, you're going to see collagen right beside it on the shelf, and these are not one and the same. So it's important that you realize a collagen powder is not the same as a protein powder, where your protein powder might be a substitute for having a tuna sandwich or for having eggs or for having turkey sausage, but collagen will not fill that gap. So important for you to— hopefully that analogy helped a little bit. Collagen protein displays a low indispensable amino acid profile, and yet as a functional food, collagen is a source of physiologically active peptides and conditionally indispensable amino acids that have the potential to optimize health and address physiological needs posed by wear wait for it, aging, and by exercise. So remember that exercise is a breakdown activity. It breaks down muscle. We have to break it down before it ever gets built up. So quote unquote, from some of the research that I'm including references in this podcast, 36% of collagen peptides can be used as protein substitution in the daily diet while ensuring indispensable amino acid requirements are met. And basically that's saying your indispensable amino acid requirements is those that you have to get in your diet on a daily basis. And if you don't, you will not kind of reach the quota. And so what happens when you're working and you don't do that too often? You're fired, right? So it's not going to work. But we also have to be careful that requirements of indispensable amino acids also means not getting more. Now, if you made more than your quota, your boss would probably give you a raise, or he's just gonna love you. However, if we take in more indispensable amino acid than we're required, it may not work. You may not absorb what you're taking in. The study in question suggests that the effective amounts of functional collagen peptides are about 2.5 to 15 grams per day. Observed in the literature are below the maximum level of collagen that may be incorporated in the standard American diet. So let's just hope you don't have the standard American diet. Sad, right? I know that I'm preaching to the choir potentially, or you're just beginning to wake up about your need for protein because potentially you're exercising and maybe not getting results. It's how you landed here. And what you want to be sure of is that you're aware that just adding extra, extra, extra collagen to what you're doing may not actually do what you want it to do. We want to be in that sweet spot. We do want to be eating the protein and higher levels of it, most likely for most of us, than we've ever done before in our lives. So our body weight in pounds and grams of protein Another way to do it is to look at your fat-free mass, and that's a different calculation. It's not quite the same. It's taking that more times 2 or 3, particularly if you want to lose weight. You have to take in a higher amount of protein, especially if you're creating a caloric deficit. I'm going to go into that in the next, uh, podcast, doing a little series here on protein, so don't miss these. Let's talk a little bit about collagen benefits, and this may be backpedaling for some of you who are asking already how much collagen, but let's review why. Numerous studies have shown that collagen improves skin elasticity, so that may help you with the appearance of cellulite. Certainly eating better will, from the inside out, may support recovery of lost cartilage tissue. Those of you who have issues and aches and pains, your knees or your hips. Collagen may help you there. Reduced activity-related joint pain. So, um, those of you who've had a very fun life, who love to be active— and I'm talking to you, fellow runners, you know— or who've done higher impact sport, you know, again, may help you. Strengthens tendons and ligaments, connective tissue. Increases lean muscle or lean body mass in elderly men and pre— what, what you understand, it's pre, not peri or post, but premenopausal women. So this is women who stand the most to gain things before they enter perimenopause, but there is no association yet in that area with lean muscle mass for postmenopausal women. However, wait for it, because you're coming up, postmenopausal women— increased bone mineral density in postmenopausal women from consumption of collagen. And the same may be true for protein as well. Your bones are 70% protein. These studies have investigated supplementation with doses— collagen doses— of 2.5 to 15 grams of bioactive collagen peptides over periods of 3 to 18 months. So, you know, again, about a year and a half if you're on it. And, you know, we all want to be the lucky one that we see these benefits in 3 months, but consistency is your best friend. And I will say this just as a behavior change coach and exercise psychology major here, that consistency is one of the hardest things. You know, often when I'm following up with someone maybe who's not doing coaching, but I'm following up knowing the habits that they tried to begin and asking how that's going or if they noticed any benefit, the answer I often will receive is, you know, well, I really, you know, Sometimes when I remember to do it, I think it helped a little. I'll get an answer like that, which is very wishy-washy, and it's simply a yes or no. Did you do it regularly or not? And did it help when you did it regularly? Well, I can't really answer that question. That's really not what we want to hear. So honor yourself. If you're doing so much that you feel like you can't be consistent in any one thing, pack some of them away for later. Put them in the closet. You can always get them out. Keep them on a list where you don't have to remember them, but just start one thing and do that one simple thing until it becomes more of a habit and you've either decided this is helpful or this is not helpful. And sometimes there has to be a progression. You don't just start taking certain things and take it in a single dose, no matter who you are, how much you exercise, how much you weigh. You sometimes have to increase what you're doing and continue to test yourself to find the sweet spot. And that's true of several different things. Whether it might be that you're taking a digestive enzyme like that, or that you're taking certain micronutrients that are too tolerant, that are unique to you and not necessarily based on any guideline that is just a blanket for all of us. So the benefits have reported due to bioactive collagen peptides upregulate the synthesis of extracellular matrix proteins in various tissues via, uh, stimulatory cell effect while providing the specific amino acid building blocks for body collagens. So here's what we need to consider though. Again, you can take too much. I mean, that's the short Reader's Digest Cliff Notes version. Ideally, the essential acid or the amino acid scores of a protein or protein mixture shouldn't exceed 1.0, like fulfill 100% of the indispensable amino acid requirement while minimizing excess. So excess not necessarily good, and then that can default so that you're not absorbing even up to 100. So it's due to the fact that the body's metabolic needs include both indispensable and dispensable amino acids. And because of that, if one or more indispensable amino acids are present in excess of the requirement, the diet becomes limited in dispensable amino acids. Crazy, all right? That was a mouthful, I understand it. But unbalanced even though the score may receive or be at the same spot. So it is this indispensable amino acids if they're present in excess. So you want some but you don't want more. You don't want lots. If you're adding your collagen to everything— your coffee, your smoothie, and you're doing another smoothie and you're adding it there too, and you're putting bone broth here in your soup— you may be just getting a little bit too much of it. So consider, yes, do we want it? Yeah, okay, great. But do you want it in, you know, double doses? Because a little is good and more is better is sometimes the American way. You don't. So just regularly having a consistent amount is far better than overexceeding. So how much collagen based on that standard American diet? One thing I want you, if you're listening, to consider is I— again, I think I'm preaching to the choir. You're already in tune, you're already asking, you're already thinking, I know I need more protein. Even if you're struggling right now to get it, you're way ahead if your mind is open to the fact that you need it. So you wanna look at a level as high as 36% of collagen peptides can be used as protein substitution. So you can include that and count that. So in an example I've shared before, in the morning, generally it is, most often it's after my workout, but depending on my workflow, sometimes I will have a high protein smoothie or smoothie bowl. Prior to a workout if I've got a little time, so I'm gonna digest that easily before I go work out. And I put in Flipping 50 plant-based protein, so it's a pea-based protein. I'll put creatine in there. I'm not gonna go too far into that, will link to another podcast that talks about creatine. But I will also add collagen to it, collagen peptides to it. So I'm kind of doubling up and I'm boosting the essential amino acid profile of my, my shake. Now I'm not gonna do that again if I have a shake in the afternoon. I'm not gonna do that again. Once is enough. And then otherwise I'm eating high-quality protein throughout the day. Now you and I hopefully don't have that sad diet. We actually eat better than that and we're eating more animal protein, I'm hoping. And if you don't, you might want to look— and, and no judgment here, so I understand And it may be religious, it may be just personal belief, it may be a mindset. Maybe you're not open to it now, but would be later if the results you're getting indicate, "For my health, this— what I'm doing isn't working." But what I want you to do is to consider if you're going vegan completely or vegetarian and eating very little protein is, "Do I want to supplement with an essential amino acid?" supplement via powder or tablet, whichever is to your advantage. In my case, if I'm doing one of those to supplement, I'm gonna do a capsule simply because amino acid supplements do not taste good. It's, it's an amino acid after all. It's not, it's not a flavorful thing as much as we might mask it, you know. It's still through the berry taste, you know, it's, it's an essential amino acid. Thing. That's good for me. But you may want to go that route if you just are really adverse to capsules or pills. At least you have that option. So the PDCAAS calculation of the daily protein mixture containing 36% collagen peptides, 64% mixed proteins from the standard American diet works to equal 1.0 but not be too high. So if you're eating more mixed proteins, you're eating higher levels of protein, but you don't overdo collagen, you're still just doing it, you know, once in your smoothie, you're probably just fine. You may be able to do it, you know, in your coffee and a smoothie and still be okay. But you want to be sure that you're not just doing collagen, collagen, collagen, because it's not enough. And you want to be conscious of not overdoing because of that indispensable proteins that you've got, the indispensable amino acids. If they are in excess, you're not actually doing more good or benefit. So more collagen terms to consider, and I'm going to leave you with this, and this is the absolute worst thing to do at the end of a story, a presentation, right, is to open up a new loop. But I do want to put this in And then those of you who are curious, please ask questions. We'll do a follow-up. So there's more to consider, like peptides versus powders. What's the difference when we're talking about collagen? Because sitting there on the shelf, as you stare at the protein for muscle building benefit on one side and the collagen on another, within that collagen frame, there's also powders versus peptides. Consider the two Peptides are short strings of amino acids, just 2 or 3 amino acids joined together. And what's happening is it's making them even easier to digest and to absorb. So for regeneration of connective tissue in joints and ligaments and bone and skin or gut, collagen peptides are what you want. So I would opt to do it. If you're looking at price tags, most likely collagen peptides are going to be more expensive, but there is a reason. It's more digestible. You're actually absorbing more of it. So when you look at it that way, the cost may actually be a just a better investment. Without getting too much into other subjects, one more thing I'll throw you is that there is also creatine peptides. Those support muscle strength, recovery, short bursts of power, and support your ATP, which is adenosine triphosphate. Likewise, the reason for ATP, that's your energy central, your energy production. And when we talk conversations about mitochondria, that's where ATP production comes in. But the difference between creatine peptides is then we're really talking about muscle strength, recovery, short bursts of power, and that energy, whereas peptides are kind of doing the repair, regeneration of joints, connective tissue, bones, and ligaments and joints. Do you want both? I think probably you and I would both check the box. Yes, please. Right. But you wanna realize, you know, not which one should I take, but if you're prioritizing and maybe having to choose, choose the one that's most important to you. And I would suggest that collagen probably is first. Get to the building blocks, maybe those things that are obstacles to you getting the strength and the stimulus and the kinds of exercise you need. If you have any issues going on with joints or ligaments or aches or pains, gut issues, those are prohibitive for you actually doing the exercise. And then open yourself up to how am I doing, what results am I getting, and if I want to go a little bit further even though I'm already, dietarily-wise, getting in the protein, then I might want to look at creatine peptides and taking them as well.. And just for those of you who may ask, I do both. So there you have it. All right. I hope this is one, answered some questions and two, maybe stirred some up. So please share them if you're listening and you're communicating on Facebook, you're in our Instagram, or you're leaving questions on show notes. Can reach to us through our contact on the website, living50.com/howmuchcollagen, for today's show notes. And there we'll link to other shows that we've done fairly recently on collagen, on creatine, on protein, and the ability to look at when and which and here today, how much? What are you waiting for? Let's start Flipping 50 today.