How to Slow Aging and Feel Younger Fast with Epigenetics

Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I have a little sleep secret I want to tell you about. Look, sleep is crucial for your fitness, but it's crucial for just plain old everyday life and function. And I find I sleep great unless I have a migraine. And I've had more than my fair share since perimenopause all the way through postmenopause. My secret weapon was Blue Sky CBD sleep gels. Each gel contains 25mg of CBD and 25mg CBN for deep restorative sleep. Something about it helps to reduce inflammation, which I believe for me was key in helping me get to sleep. But the biggest thing is so many of the over-the-counter solutions, whether for sleep or migraines, can ruin gut health, and liver health. Neither one of those did I want to be problematic for me. So this option is recommended by healthcare providers worldwide and backed by thousands of happy customers, many of whom come from our Flipping 50 community. There is zero THC, so it's non-habit-forming. It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at My Favorites.

What are you waiting for?

Good night.

You either are her or you know her, the one in the crowd that looks younger than the rest of women her age.

You wonder, is it lighting?

Is it her skincare? Or has she had work done? What if is available to you too, starting today, and not from a needle or from a laser?

How can you slow aging? It's no longer a mystery. It's rooted in science and science of epigenetics.

Unlike genetics, epigenetics includes your lifestyle, your diet, your environment, and it reveals how these influence your biological age. Knowing your biological age compared to your chronological age, that's number of candles on a cake, can reveal powerful strategies to live longer and to feel younger. Consider this: you can reverse the effects of 179 genes associated with aging by strength training twice weekly for 6 months. And by the way, if you're not strength training, talk to me. Genetics are involved, but you get to decide if you turn them on or you turn them off. Today's discussion dives into the tools and the that make changing your biological age possible. If you're ready to unlock the simple secrets of how to slow aging and feel younger fast, this episode is for you. My guest, Hannah Wendt, has a lifelong passion for longevity and breakthrough disruptive technologies that drive radical improvement to the human condition. She attended the University of Kentucky and graduated with a degree in biology.

During that time, she had multiple research internships studying cell signaling and cell biology.

After graduation, she worked for the International Peptide Society as their director of research and content. Through work with the integrative medicine industry, Hannah saw an opportunity for methylation-based age diagnostics and started True Diagnostics in 2020. True Diagnostic is a company focusing on methylation array-based diagnostics for life extension and preventative healthcare serving functional medicine practitioners. TruDiagnostic has a commitment to research with over 30 approved clinical trials investigating the epigenetic methylation, changes of longevity, and health interventions. Since TruDiagnostic's inception, they've created one of the largest private epigenetic health databases in the world over 35,000 patients tested to date. Hannah has since created Everything Epigenetics, where she shares insights on how DNA regulation has an impact on your health in her podcast.

I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50. I started this podcast over a decade ago to answer questions about fitness in menopause and beyond before you knew to ask them. The goal: to help accelerate your results with science and the practical application of proven protocols while living your best life. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman. And it's not just about you, but the 3 generations that you influence. My unique 40-year career, including being a university senior lecturer in kinesiology, an industry subject matter expert, and an international speaker, to founder of the first and the only exclusively made for menopause and beyond fitness membership in the world. Every week I interview experts behind the scenes and the science of optimal hormone balancing, fitness, and longevity, and share answers to our community's questions so you can have the vitality and the energy that you want, need, and deserve.

Hannah Wendt, thank you so much for being here.

Thanks, Debra. I'm super excited to chat with you today.

We have spent some time together actually hanging out, you going over how do I go over and be more effective as a coach in kind of relaying results and data. And you just have a really geeky— I mean, you are this true science girl right here. So I love that about you. And I want to ask you this because I think this will take every listener back to— oh yeah, I know when I first heard about that, the inception of that, the real age test, right? It was first promoted by Oprah, by Dr. Oz. He was talking about it. And we've been aware that we can be younger or we can be a certain age, but actually, literally, our real age, quote unquote, is something else. Could be older, actually, also. So we should throw that out there. Let's hope that's not true. But let's talk about the evolution of testing, quote unquote, real age, or what we're doing now, which is testing biological age with a simple quiz versus using blood and data to really detect it. How far have we come?

Oh gosh, you set the stage perfectly. But yes, very, very far, especially within these past couple of years. I mean, I'm sure we'll get into the details as we continue on with this conversation, but I mean, to your point, just imagine just answering a couple questions online or taking a small little quiz based on maybe a couple lifestyle factors, right? Do you smoke? Do you drink? Do you work out? And they're just yes or no questions, all the way to using this advanced technology from just a couple drops of blood, looking at millions of markers, essentially your genetic expression levels, and being able to report, I mean, thousands of outcomes to pinpoint and tell you even why and how you're aging. I mean, it's just drastically different, right?

So much so, you know, and as you were talking, I'm imagining, I don't know if anybody else has listening and doing this, but thinking about like, when was the last time that I had a collection of people together that I hadn't seen in a while? Because I think this is when you start reviewing in your head, especially if you're over 40, right? Because it shows up all of a sudden. It's like, oh, you know, like, wow, I haven't seen you in a long time. And that's either a really good thing or it's a different kind of tone of voice. It's like, I wouldn't have even recognized them, you know. And so it's like class reunions, or interestingly enough, I mean, my son just got married, and unfortunately you have the whole gamut there. You have young people you haven't seen and older people you haven't seen. So it's not quite as collective, but it may be that it is the class reunions when it really shows up. It's like, wow, people have really aged differently. Like that, that really shows up. And then it makes you wonder You know, I mean, what would we learn from going through like a lifestyle collective of everybody's habits, you know, over time and associating that with, you know, what we think looks like aging forward or backward to either one of them? So let's, let's break this down. I mean, what makes us look older or younger than our true age? What is it?

Yeah, I mean, it's quite literally everything, right? It's, it's the definition of epigenetics or, or what we're looking at. I mean, it's quite literally how we're interacting with our environment from an emotional standpoint, physical, spiritual, and all the above. It's within our relationships with ourselves, with our friends, family members. It's truly comes down to the type of quality of life that, that we're having. And I think that's why it's, it's so funny. I love the example of like the class reunion, right? You're, you're the same exact age as everyone chronologically, that is. And then you come together and you're like, wait, are they the same age as me? They look a lot older. Or, you know, maybe it's the opposite. Wait, they look a lot younger. Tell me about your skincare routine. Or what are you doing, right?

Yeah, yeah, so true. And I have to ask you this because as you're talking about, you know, like our emotions and the way we interact with people, I just got back— as we're recording this, of course— I just got back from a week-long meditation retreat with Dr. Joe Dispenza. So most of our listeners are aware, but I also think, you know, when you do that, you come back, you come back looking refreshed. You know, you do look like you had a spa week or you had a vacation week because you have gone somewhere else. And at one point I would have said, okay, here's you, science girl, you're giving all the data and the lab stuff. And then there's meditation, which is woo-woo. But now there's so much science about what meditation actually has the power to do and changing the brain and changing the cells, reversing disease. It's just so, so very interesting that you bring that up. And I want anybody listening who thinks their eyes are rolling back because we're going to talk about blood and data and science, you know, it's everything. It's all of it. It's not just how much broccoli you eat or sugar or cigarettes. It's just, it's all things. So very interesting. I— so define epigenetics first of all, and we really want to maybe compare and contrast. So there's epigenetics, there's genetics. Let's just refresh everybody's memory. What are we talking about?

For sure. I know I mentioned the word without defining it quite yet. I'll give you a reason as to why I even did that too. So first and foremost, though, let's define those terms. Epi is just a Greek prefix. It means above or on top of. So we're quite literally looking on top of your genes. And as you mentioned, most people are probably a little bit more familiar with genetics. These— this is your genetic code. You get 50% from parent 1, 50% from parent 2. These genes don't change. They stay with you. They're the same throughout your entire life. And you can have certain genetic predispositions for disease, but the clinical utility there is so low because again, you can't change that. So I'll give you an example. For me, I have an APOE3/4 variant, meaning I have an increased risk for Alzheimer's. My grandmother had Alzheimer's. I know I'm at an increased risk to have it, number one, but number two, have it be diagnosed at a younger age as well. Now, coming back to the definition of epigenetics, how do they compare? Well, epigenetics are changeable, right? You are able to kind of change these genetic expression levels. And that is why it's so clinically important, because you have the power to change it. You're no longer a victim of that familiar or hereditary predisposition. So even though I have that APOE3/4 variant, there is research talking about interventions which you can do, one of them actually being estrogen supplementation and therapy to help mitigate that increased risk, increased genetic risk, I will say. So yeah, you know, it's definitely a balance. The reason I threw out epigenetics at the beginning too is because you see all these quotes on social media like, "You are what you eat," or, "Your DNA is not your destiny," or, "Food is medicine." That is literally defining epigenetics without saying it, which is what I meant when I said it's quite literally everything.

And this is really— gosh, so many things are going to come together potentially for our listeners because I think the other thing we hear, this word, and this is— I don't know, I think when I first started hearing it, biohacking, it was offensive. I don't like the word hack. And I think because it has always sounded like a shortcut or like a cheat. And something, you know, about anybody who's probably over 50 or 60, their parents said never cheat. Don't take any shortcuts, right? So there is all of this stuff going on in here. But now when I think about this, I think about this so differently, that biohacking is just, honestly, it may be tuning into what are the epigenetics that for you could change your genetic expression and either stifle things that are gonna age you faster or cause you to have disease or a greater risk for it, or that are going to help you express things that, that are on the positive side, helping you reverse aging of tissues and change things. And I love that. When you— when I say biohacking to you, what's your response? What do you say? Think about that.

I feel the same exact way as you, actually, Debra. I would just say I don't like the word in general, but now that I'm thinking about it a little bit more deeply, it is just the word hack. I think you're right, it makes it sound cheap, right? Easy, right? A shortcut to where you really want to be. So I've never been a huge fan, just personally. Now I think that's why, but I've also just haven't been able to come up with another word that kind of encompasses that. I don't know if you have any suggestions, but I've always struggled with that too. So again, you know, I'll always talk about it with you know, my— in my field and my job and conversations I have with people like you. I mean, it just seems like it can't not come up at some point.

Amen. Whoever's listening out there is really creative. Do some wordsmithing. Maybe there's a better one out there, or we need to bring this up to Sam Horn, who is the queen of wordsmithing, so we can come up with something we like a little bit better. So let's talk about biological age. Versus chronological age, so everybody kind of very clearly understands what we're talking about there.

Of course. Yeah. Chronological age. Let's define that, right? Most of us know that. Why you come to your reunions and again, you're the same age, right? You're born how many times you're traveling around the sun and blowing out those birthday candles every year. And what's really important about this is it's linear. It only ever increases over time or goes up, whereas we can be the same chronological age as a lot of people but also look differently and have different functions. And that is quite literally describing your biological age, which is by definition, or my definition of it, the aging at the cellular level, where again, each individual cell, I mean, millions and millions billions, even more, are going to have a different kind of clock compared to one another. And that's why you're going to get this different phenotypic outwards expression. Because it's again shaped by more of that nurture, right, rather than nature. Your genetics is more of your nature. But really, we're talking about your nurture here, how you're living your life, that's going to have the biggest impact on that biological age, which can increase or decrease over time.

Yeah, I love that. Okay, so while you were talking, something that comes up in another term that I think a lot of people are starting to see— senescence. So talk a little bit about senescence of the cells. And I, I feel like you were kind of alluding to it, really. So where does that fit in? And when someone hears that, senescence, I mean, obviously, I— it out of the word senility. You know, we all know we don't want to go there, right? We know somebody who did, and we certainly don't want that to be our path. But talk a little bit about senescence of cells. What actually is that? Do we want that? Do we want to prevent that?

Yeah, senescent cells— these are also referred to as zombie cells. I think that really explains it a little bit more clear. It's this idea that we're always creating new cells in our body, right? We're replicating. And when a cell becomes senescent or zombie-like, it kind of gets stuck in this cell cycle. And meaning that at the end of the cell cycle, you get the cell and then it kind of just doesn't do anything. It doesn't necessarily differentiate. It doesn't really go to become, you know, a nerve cell, an immune cell. It's a senescent cell, quite literally. And it's doing a couple things. Number one, it's causing buildup and junk around the body, meaning inflammation, first off, and then secondarily, oxidative stress. So, not good, right? Right. Usually, those senescent cells or zombie-like cells get a bad rap or have a bad connotation. However, we need a little bit of them. We need a kind of a small amount of them because if not, then we would just keep creating cells over and over and over and over again. We need a little bit of senescent cells to say, hey, we need to stop, we need to differentiate. So there's kind of a— oh, what's the word I'm looking for here? Like a fine medium, I guess, right? Where you want a little bit of senescent cells, but not too much to kind of tip over the iceberg. And there's therapies that you can take to kind of reduce what they call that senescent cell load, right? These are supplements, usually supplements, they can be medications as well, but they're called senolytics or senolytic therapy. And it's a lot of, you know, antioxidant-based formulations like your fisetin, quercetin, resveratrol, pterostilbene, things like that.

Super good. Okay. Also want to ask you to Talk about how biological age can be measured. And obviously, we, we can take the quiz. But if we go the lab route, how accurate is it? And what do we know about its accuracy?

Yeah, if you're taking a biological age test with True Diagnostic, I can speak for my company. We can't measure accuracy, right? We get this question all the time. So I think it's just important to define and clear the air on accuracy. Means, if you think of a dartboard, you know, you're hitting that bullseye, that known target. No one knows their biological age, right? We really, at any point, don't know how we're turning on and off certain genes and what that looks like on the cellular level. So instead of being accurate, Debra, we like to say, how precise are we, right? How reliable are we? If we take two samples at the same exact time, how closely are they correlated to one another? And this is measured with something called an intra-class correlation coefficient, or ICC value for short. Basically, it's a scale of 0 to 1, 1 being excellent. You want to be closer to that 1 marker. So at TruDiagnostic, we only use epigenetic biological age clocks. That have an ICC value above 0.99. So super, super replicable. So it's a different way to measure accuracy.

Yeah, that is very cool. I love that. Thanks for that explanation. Super helpful. Let me ask you this, because this is an audience of immediate gratification love. Okay, so we do a biological age test, we get back results where compared to my classmates, I may not be winning the race, and we want to. How soon can we see a change in biological age?

Yeah, you know, we can see it, to answer your question again directly, and I can always expand. We can start to see a change in as little as 8 weeks. So we published a pretty nice paper with Stanford on this called the Twin Study. It essentially looked at identical sets of twins. One was on a vegan diet, one was on an omnivore diet. You may have seen it in the Netflix special, You Are What You Eat. It got a lot of press as, as well. And that was just an 8-week trial, and we even saw differences within that time point.

But hold on, so go back. So it was, it was what? There was a carnivore diet and an omnivore diet?

Vegan versus omnivore.

Vegan. Okay. Okay. I would love for you to come back and do the carnivore one. Okay.

Yes, I know. I know. We should have done triplets and done the carnivore diet.

True, true. I love that.

Yeah. But, you know, to your point, what I would say is most reasonable probably in terms of using the testing, I would say if you're someone who you really want to dial this in and you want to figure out your biological age and you want to test a lot to see what's working and what's not, do it every 2 to 3 months. Really, really do it. But if you're someone who, you know, yourself a little bit more, you know, you're trusting your choices a little bit more, start to do it maybe every 6 months or so. And then the more frequent you test, the more you're going to know how your results may look, right? You can start to infer a little bit. I'd say at least you want to do it once a year if your main goal is increasing lifespan and healthspan.

Talk to me about this. So as a behavior change specialist, Right. I— one of the biggest pieces of, I think, leverage is we got to have a benchmark and we need to know where are we running to. So knowing what this is now and knowing in particular areas where you may score higher or lower allows you to kind of isolate some things or some habits and maybe say this is low-hanging fruit, these habits here. Would be really low-hanging fruit for us to look at. But everybody does better when there is a concrete start and a stop. And that's why it makes me nervous when you say test every year. I'm like, oh no, don't do that. Because every year older we are, those years get more and more precious. That real estate, we don't want to go away.

Yeah, I mean, again, in a perfect world, I think people need to be testing this every quarter, right? Yeah, I realize it can be a little bit expensive. We have a really nice subscription program where people can test every quarter if they want. And I think we've seen a really large increase in people doing that. So like, yeah, to your point, from like a behavioral standpoint, people want these results and they want to know how their daily choices and habits are affecting, again, your number one risk factor. Biological age is your number one risk factor for every, almost every single disease and death itself, which is huge, right? We do our lab results, our CBC, our hormones every 6 months. Why wouldn't you do that number one risk factor even more often? So, it's interesting.

Yeah.

In a perfect world, I would say every quarter. You're right. I think a year is too long. But, if you're going to stretch it out, if you think you know your body, if you're not changing too much, at least minimal once a year.

So I've heard said, and I'm sure many listeners have too, that your goal, or some kind of— is this an arbitrary goal? So, Tana, you tell me. No, biologically, 7 years younger than your chronological age. True, not true?

Used to be true. There's updated information. So one of the older algorithm— one of the older biological age clocks, I should say, we had, that is a true statistic for basically if you were younger biologically 7 years in our older, what we called intrinsic epigenetic age, you would— and everyone in the world did that— you would cut the incidence of disease in half overnight.

Wow.

Which again is super, super impressive. And I'm sure there's a statistic that we can extrapolate with our updated, you know, kind of better biological age clocks we have now, but I don't know what that exact number is. So yes, still true, but on an older version.

So good. And I think very recently— tell me about this because this was brand new news to me. So I'm a huge advocate. Many of our listeners know I've preached and preached and preached about every household should have a smart scale. Get rid of your dumb scale. We need to know how much skeletal muscle mass, what your body composition is, and then we know so much more already about aging and about health. But I think it is my son and daughter-in-law just got a new scale and it's telling them their biological age supposedly. How— talk to me about reliability about this. See what I did there? Okay.

I love it. We're learning together. So I do not know how they exactly calculate that biological age, right? I'm sure you can read about it and look at it. Here's my guess. They probably do some type of like variable 1, right, times this weight. Plus variable 2 times this weight plus variable 3 times this weight and so on and so forth. And they're taking muscle mass, fat mass, actual weight in terms of pounds and probably a couple other factors. But yeah, what's the science behind it, right? Are there reliability studies on it? And there's just not. That's, again, kind of a fun way to calculate biological age. But gee, to the benefit of that, it's gamifying it, right? You don't want to be older still. You still want to be younger, which is why you see a lot of companies adding that aging feature into their product.

So true. I love that. Okay, so I know you're really here and you're a science girl and you're able to talk about testing, but because of that, I also would guess— I'm going to intuit that your, your antenna is up about these things. So all these things where we know, or we hear, or there's proof that we can reverse aging in effort to slow aging. There are a lot of things going on right now, right? What would you say would be some mistakes that women might be making with their investment of, of money and/or time and energy when it comes to that?

Oh, what are women wasting on in terms of time and energy? Oh, I haven't— I don't think I've even said this, but I think this is just like my— one of my thoughts. I think red light therapy.

Really?

Say it. I don't know. I think it has its benefits. I definitely do. Absolutely. In terms of reducing biological age though, there's little to no data, right? So I'm always going to ride high on, on the science and try and follow the science as best as possible. And there just is none. I mean, if I would love, love, love, love to see a bunch of like N of 1 studies with, you know, comparing people who don't use the red light and their biological aging. So some controls, I guess, and, you know, people who are using the red light therapy, And then maybe like at different levels as well, right? Different frequencies and intensities. That would be super, super interesting to me because I don't have a machine. I want one, but I'm like, should I spend the money on it? Right? Is there some, some more peer-reviewed research-based published science on it? So I'm just saying that because yeah, it's, it's something I've been like hunting and wanting to buy, but just can't justify for myself quite yet.

Very cool.

Isn't there a—

there— it seems like there ought to be a partnership ready to be born right there with them approaching you to say, yeah, we totally believe in this, so here, study it.

I'll say, don't get me wrong, I don't want anyone to say, oh, what is she talking about? I love my red light machine. Yes, I, I think they're great. Again, they have their particular benefits, and a lot of the healthcare providers I work with have them in their clinic, right? Like, they're using this because they do see results in terms of— again, depending on the goal, is it reduction in inflammation? Is it increasing cellular activity and energy, etc.? But I would just love, love more data on that.

Yeah, I love that answer. And I also love— what do you think about placebo effects? So somebody's using their red light therapy, they swear it works because they think it works. And so if they think it works, could they be not reversing their biological tissue because they think it works?

Yeah, I mean, totally, right? Right. Yeah. And like, I want one of the, like, face ones, you know, you put on and you look like a Transformer and fine lines and wrinkles and things like that. And again, I know a lot of people who have them. I know a lot of people I trust who have them and love them, but I'm just like, I even want, like, before and afters there too, you know?

Truth. Yeah. Is there— I know you mentioned the twin study, so whether science or otherwise, you've probably seen a lot of pre- and post-testing, or, you know, before and after in the next test. Are there any dramatic stories of reversing age or bringing back maybe what was an accelerated age that you've seen over time?

I mean, even in my own personal results, we just did a webinar. I think it's, I think it's on our YouTube, on True Diagnostics YouTube, if anyone wants to check it out, where I talk about the boring stuff the first half, like the precision, you know, things we look at for clocks. And then Melissa, who's our board-certified geneticist, does a case study on my results. So it's really fun. You know, we go back and forth and I think we go over like 5 of my different time points. I've taken it more than that, but I mean, you can see a huge increase when I got COVID, which is again, no surprise. And I'm still actually trying to chop away at that increase. I mean, it's still, I, I got it what, 3 or 4 years ago now. And I mean, you can still see like things are, are elevated. They're not back to baseline where they were pre-COVID. And some other really funny correlations you can find, like in the summer when I'm vacationing, I took a long trip to Europe and Italy. I did a before and after test. My biological age went down afterwards. Stress levels were super low. I had also just gotten certified in Transcendental Meditation. So, I was practicing mindfulness, you know, moving my body, working out a little bit more too. So, again, like those habits stack up, right? Everything we do every day becomes our habits. Our habits become our life, right? You're going to see that. All of your test results, but especially your biological age results too. So, it's really fun. To your point, Debra, I love how you are so keen on this. Like, you need the longitudinal testing. I'm able to know my body because I've done that, and, and what really changes it. A lot of people do this as a one-and-done, and like, you're not going to reap a lot of benefits from it, to be honest.

Right.

Yeah, totally agree.

I love that.

And I I want to ask this too. I know in the past, and this is quite some time ago, I began first offering genetic testing, like look at what you're predisposed for so you can do something about it. And then this biological age and looking here at the epigenetics came out, and I'm like, I just had a coach the other day, we asked this question, can you tell me a little bit about what someone will learn from the genetics test and when you would recommend it? I said, At this point, I wouldn't. I think it's far more valuable to look at your epigenetics because you have control over that. I mean, you can do a one and done for genetics because it's not going to change, but the epigenetics will. And that empowers you to say, okay. And to the wrong person, I think potentially finding out about your genetics could go south.

Yeah, I think it's really funny when someone's like, oh, I'm nervous to test my epigenetics or know my biological age. And I'm like, well, have you gotten your genetics tested? Right? That's my first question to them. And almost, I would say like 8 out of 10 times, people are like, oh yeah, of course, I've tested my genetics. And I'm like, well, you can't change those. That should be really, really scary, right? Those are your genes that were passed down, you know, you're stuck with them. Where that's just not empowering, right? I mean, you have that, you're in control, you're in the driver's seat. And I think, you know, in a country where we've always, again, been taught to be the victim of our own health, now we know based on science that we are really in charge.

I love it. Absolutely love it. Okay. I want to ask you just one question. This is the hardest one of the whole episode, I'm going to tell you. So brace yourself. I'm glad you're sitting down. All right. And I rarely say that to anybody, but so you were talking to collectively— could be outliers here— but women 45 to 70. We care about aging. We're starting to care because maybe we've seen our parents age in a way that we don't want to, and/or we've lost them. They're gone. And now it's like we're it and we want to put the brakes on. Is there a question I should have asked you that I haven't yet?

Oh, is there a question that you should have asked me that you haven't yet? You know, maybe, yeah, from like a women's standpoint, like what can we do maybe a little bit further as well, right? Since you mentioned that particular age group. I mean, it's really hard. Again, lifestyle factors make a world of difference. I think a really interesting study, which or an area of study that your audience may be interested in too is just biological aging and menopause, right? Being able to delay menopause is actually really great for the biological aging process. There are a couple really good studies on that already. But I was just talking about this actually on a podcast I was recording on earlier today. There's little information on hormone replacement therapy and really the biological aging process. So I think we'll, we'll find more out about that. So just stay tuned, like, become curious and stay on the lookout, because I think that'll be a super cool area to dive into when it's ready.

Yeah, well, I think we are the generation that will prove or disprove what's going to happen. That's— that, I think, was the reason everybody was so nervous about should I or shouldn't I, you know. I think very slowly we're emerging into You know, the proof that is trickling out is supporting that it's helpful for muscle, it's helpful for bone, and it's helpful for brain health. But we won't know, we won't know until we cross the finish line. And so it's interesting, we're doing it though for our, for our daughters and our daughters-in-law and for somebody down the road to be able to have a very clear choice. So I love that.

Thank you so much.

Okay. To everybody listening, how do you decide? Get your hands on it. So there's a couple of ways you can proceed. I would have a link in the show notes so that if you want to just go right for testing, I will have a link for you. Flipping50.com/epigenetics. We'll put it at that link. That'll be in the show notes where you can actually go get testing and use my link to do so. If you want to also do testing with me as your coach, We work together pre and post, and you get a whole package of other things included with that, including membership for 3 years. You get, you know, access to a retreat with that. But we will work together on what are your habits now, what happened with that first testing, make some tweaks in those habits, and no, we have a finish line. We're going to retest again. And so we can set some goals, which is far more fun.. And if you've never wanted to do a, a 5K or a 10K or a marathon, we didn't have to train for that race. We could just train for the human race and you win. So we'll put all those links in the show notes. Hannah, thank you so much for being here. So insightful.

Thank you, Debra. I had fun.

Thank you for listening. To listen to a decade of episodes and to get the show notes, visit flipping50.com where you'll be able to find all the previous episodes. And I made it super easy to make the most of your listening time and get exactly what you want to listen to as top priority by getting the top 10 episodes in the areas you most care about, like how much protein do you need? Weight loss, and other 3 ultra-important topics we've identified as our community's top 5. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than you, midlife women.

So go and listen right now.

Do you have a question for a podcast? A question you'd love to ask, or maybe a story you want to tell? Did you know we have a special group just for podcast question roundups and the answers? My community coaches and I provide answers daily inside of this group, but it's also where I go when I occasionally say, okay, open call for podcast questions, or tell your story.

Would you like to be a guest.

So if you're looking for a community of women who are also interested in optimizing their health, strengthening their mindset, and looking forward to every new year, join the Flipping 50 Insiders group. That's Flipping 50 Insiders on Facebook.