Making Fasting a Tool and Sparing Muscle Loss During Fat Loss

I am so excited to dive into this topic today. So, so many times I have talked about fasting and my initial reaction and response to it, where it fits for women on a health and wellness journey, looking to reduce the symptoms of menopause and looking to increase positive influence of their health habits on their longevity. Where does fasting fit in with gaining muscle or maintaining it and gaining strength for longevity when we know of the autophagy and the benefits. This episode, we're going to dive right into it. This one I am so excited to do that I'm in snippets and I'm recording in little bits and pieces in little pieces or windows of time that I have. So I wanted to get started and begin to unpack it, and I'm going to be doing it. If you get to see the video side of bit. You're going to see me in different outfits along the way. So it's very bizarre, but now you know why. In this episode, what we're going to do is talk about these things. And it is my goal that by the end, you will kind of understand how to determine if fasting fits your needs right now. And of course, that means if it doesn't, and if yes to fasting, then when and when not to. Because there will be still both. And how autophagy happens— you've heard about autophagy if you've heard about fasting. You kind of understand this cellular cleanup that goes on with fasting, and it is touted as one of the greatest benefits. And I want to get real with you here that I think we have to admit, or be willing to admit it to ourselves, even if not out loud, that if autophagy autophagy was the promise and we all knew we had to gain weight in order to get the autophagy, I don't think many of us would do it. I still believe that the immediate sex appeal for all of us, set in just a marketing terminology, is that there is the promise of losing weight. We think of it as a diet. We still think of the diet as a means to weight loss and being thin and somehow feel we'll be happier when we're lighter, when we weigh less, when we fit into X, Y, and Z. If only. And I think we just have to get real with this. So we talk about autophagy and I know people who say, "Well, I'm doing it for the longevity benefits. And I'm like, "Yes, and? Come on, come on." I know there's more than that because the psychology of being smaller, being thinner, weighing less somehow is still there in all of our conditioning for decades. So listen with that for yourself. So I don't mean to be condescending or to have this feel like a lesson or lecture, But just give yourself the grace that we're always going to be drawn to that side and that benefit, even without realizing or potentially admitting it. So I'm going to talk here about how autophagy happens with or without fasting. The number one all-important question about appetite and what happens And I'm going to knock you over the head with this one because this is so important. Just because you're not eating because you don't have an appetite does not actually mean that you're fasting, so to speak, right? And we've got to figure that out. The answer to, "I'm just not hungry, so I fast until X, Y, and Z," does not necessarily mean you're fasting. Let's kind of find a better application. We're going to do a quick review of fasting continuum throughout an active woman's lens because the majority of you who are here and listening either are here because you want to and know you really ought to, by this point in time, be exercising for optimizing your mental, physical, and maybe beyond that also spiritual health, but for some reason you're holding back. It doesn't appeal to you. It's never been fun. It's never been something you felt successful or good at because we like to do things we're good at. And sometimes it's hard to do things for the first time and be good at them. So there are a lot of reasons why you're not, but I want to kind of admit to so many of you who are here and you're an active woman, that there may be plenty of times when fasting is not your best friend in midlife and beyond. And we'll talk a little bit about that. I'm going to explain why fasting windows, like the amount of time that you actually fast versus that window that you eat. We'll talk about your alternate-day fasting, meaning you eat regularly one day, you fast another, and you eat regularly and you fast another. That is an alternate-day plan. We'll talk about fasting-mimicking diets. And that being the term actually coined by Dr. Valter Longo and his team, published a book. I have a couple of them on the shelf. Um, and we'll talk about limiting protein and whether that's necessary because it certainly was when the fasting mimicking diet first came out. And I want to say that was back in about 2017 or '18 that I first began sharing that with my private clients. It's not something that you ever would have found on the website is something that I would give them the link for if I thought it was appropriate. And otherwise, you didn't see or hear much talk about it other than potentially on a podcast or on a blog. We'll talk about whether that low calorie and low protein are truly necessary to reach the autophagy benefits. We'll also hit on Will I get hungry? It's so often the question and the reason many of my clients who we may have tried this with are reluctant and then surprised. We'll talk about what ketones are, how they come into play during fasting. Protein-sparing modified fasting is something we're going to spend the majority of the time on, kind of unpacking the new revelation in a brand new 2025 study. So kind of fresh off the charts? And when you already don't have an appetite, what really should be your next step as opposed to fasting? And are you eating too little already for fasting to be of benefit to you? We're going to unpack all of those things in today's episode. So tune in, get ready, strap on your shoes, or be ready for a good lift because This one is going to be on the longer end and almost like a masterclass. Okay, there is a lot to unpack here, but I want to talk about one of the most misunderstood strategies in fat loss and why what you've been told about fasting may be leaving you results on the table as far as fat loss, weight loss, muscle gain, body recomposition, as we're talking about it today, especially if you're in perimenopause or postmenopause. Traditional intermittent fasting has been popular for years. We've talked about it multiple times, so we'll link to some of those prior episodes on this podcast in the show notes. But it's been popular for good reason. So it works for some people, right? But research from Trepanowski in 2017 in the Journal of American Medical Association Internal Medicine showed that alternate-day fasting wasn't actually superior to plain calorie restriction for fat loss or for cardiovascular benefits. So I mentioned specifically alternate-day fasting because there's been a lot of— there's a wide continuum, and I think we'll probably pause here to look at what is it, what, what is going on when we're talking about fasting and the wide continuum that we have to talk about. Because it's 12 hours overnight. If you do that and you just have 3 meals, no snacks, you've started intermittent fasting. Because most Americans eat around the clock. They eat late at night and they eat first thing in the morning. And so It may, may not even have been 8 hours overnight. And that doesn't give your body really time to rest and digest and break foods down really easily. But let's talk about what traditional fasting looks like, what all of the wide continuum of them looks like. And if you've been white-knuckling through fasting to get all the autophagy benefits, and we'll talk about that too. And it— what I want you to realize is that, you know, knuckling it is not necessarily superior to any other way that you might otherwise think that weight loss would occur. So the research suggests fasting itself may not be the magic, huh? The calorie deficit is. So there's that. I also want to remind you that if you have been in a calorie deficit since 1985, dropping your calories further may actually just be putting the brakes on your metabolism. This is where it gets interesting, it gets complicated, and yet the answer may be far more simple than we allow it to be. The question becomes, is there a smarter way to create that deficit without the hunger battle? And is, in fact, the calorie deficit what is ideal for you? Because when intermittent fasting was born, it was simply, "Don't change your calories, just shorten the window with which you eat them in." And we've turned it into this, "Well, I'm barely going to eat. I'm going to have a really short window of eating and I'm going to diet. So I'm barely going to eat when I do have a window." Interesting, right? We've turned it into 1970s, Let's become Twiggy, let's shrink, let's be super small, let's try not to eat because that's somehow virtuous. It's bizarre. So is there a smarter way to achieve the goals? Let's say that. This is where protein fasting comes in. So if you've never heard of it, here we go. It's specifically a tool called protein-sparing Modified Fasting. And that stands for, or creates the acronym, PSMF. Now, I don't know if you go drop that somewhere, anybody's going to recognize what it is, but there's that. So let's talk about what high protein actually means on a protein-sparing modified fast day. And let's say that you're doing it on a day Because I think this is also where a lot of people get confused. When we think intermittent fasting, a lot of people think, "Well, I intermittent fast." To them that means, and maybe to you as you're listening, "I do, you know, 16:8. I mean, I fast 16 hours, I eat 8." And a lot of times people think doing it every day is better, best, optimal. I disagree. I think you lose all metabolic flexibility when you do that. I think you have to have days when you're not, when you're kind of not, you're not eating within a window. It may naturally occur that way, but it's that you're eating a little bit higher calorie someday, a little bit lower calorie others, even that you're changing higher carbohydrate some days, lower carbohydrate other days. And that again, allows your system to say, "Oh, okay, well, I know what to do when I get those. I'll burn them." Or, "Okay, well, I can go into fat storage and get the fat to burn that. So I'm going to be fine on those days too, and I'm not going to be sluggish." And it can go up or down depending on your intake or outtake, and you're all good. And ideally, you are burning more fat for fuel regularly and you're not storing it. How can we help that happen if that's not where you are right now? That's really what this podcast is all about. So here's what people are getting confused about. High protein on what again is a protein fasting or protein sparing modified fasting day. It doesn't mean that you're necessarily eating more protein than usual because you're eating far more calories than usual. And when we say fasting, what I want you to understand is we're We're not talking about like a water fast, don't eat anything ever at all. What we're talking about more so is that you're going to eat far less. You're gonna have a very low calorie day. And yet instead of, you know, coasting on bone broth and, you know, things that are very low cal typically and being hungry and all you can think about is the other things that you want, We're going to keep you full and satisfied with protein. It is the micro or macronutrient that does that best, keeps you satisfied, sated, as it is. So a high-protein day doesn't mean you're eating more protein than usual necessarily. It means that protein makes up the majority of the calories for that day, and that by doing that, instead of you eating what we all know as rabbit food, right? Talking about, oh yes, you can have all the cucumbers and lettuce leaves that you want. Oh yum. Okay. Um, but when you say no, you can have shrimp or chicken, or you could have bison, or, you know, a burger if you want to, that all fits. So let's use a real example of what a high protein day might look like in this protein sparing modified fast. Say, yeah, 140 40-pound woman aiming for roughly 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. And that's really where you want to be when you're going through a weight loss program, particularly so that you do not lose lean muscle mass. It's also advised and recommended for women in sport. And I would say, if you're listening and you're like, I'm not in a sport, but I would say you are. You're in the sport of life if you are an intentionally active woman who is trying to achieve a certain outcome. You're trying to win the game, right? We're trying to win the game of longevity and life and play full out with energy. You know, we've all probably gone through some period of time where we've struggled, like, I'm not eating, I'm trying to diet, I'm fasting. And where you end up is on the couch. You have no energy to actually live your life. Who wants to live like that? Right now. I mean, I think every day, every week, every month, I feel like, what am I doing? Like, there is the bucket list, and like, right now, get in the bucket. Like, if you're not, right, what are we waiting for? Let's be thinking, let's do this. I really hope that you are not one of those individuals who is like, I can't wait till retirement. Why are you waiting to retirement to live your life? Right. Let's start now. What will it look like? Because if you are waiting and waiting and putting all of your energy out there instead of in the present moment, you're missing it. You are missing it. And there's a chance you're going to get there and it's not going to be what you thought it was. So let's start now. But I digress. So let's say you're a 140-pound woman aiming for roughly 1 gram of protein per body weight. Would eat about 140 grams of protein. Easy math, I like it. 4 calories per gram, that's what protein has. That's 560 calories from protein alone. Now, on a protein-sparing modified fast, generally, you're going to be between 500 and 800 calories a day. That's really low-cal. Now, you don't want to do this for very long. That's why I would recommend no more than one, or 2, and not necessarily consecutive days a week without medical supervision. And you need to know yourself. Do you have energy deficits? Do you have a special condition? Do you easily get winded? Are you fragile? Are you frail? Do you have blood sugar issues? This is not for you if that is the case. And if you also are under high stress loads, your adrenals are already shot, again, I would not recommend this. So speak to a physician if you need to first before you do this, there's almost no room left for fat or carbohydrates in that kind of a 500 to 800 calories. However, that's the point. You're not adding protein on top of your normal food. You're essentially replacing your normal food with more lean protein sources, removing the other nutrient-dense sources. Fat is hugely nutrient-dense, we can agree, and carbohydrate is, is after that with less micronutrient density in it for this moment that you're in. So that's why some of the protein-sparing modified fasting foods are things like egg whites. So the yolk has the fat in it. Yeah, definitely some micronutrients, but you want egg whites because you're going to eliminate the fat and you're going to get just the protein. So I want you to realize something. This may be the first time you've heard it. Eggs are high in fat. They're not really a high-protein food. They have protein in them. That doesn't make all foods high protein, right? So just because you see, oh, it's got protein in it, that doesn't make a food high protein. So keep that in mind. Okay, so egg whites, white fish, chicken breasts, fat-free Greek yogurt. Now, full-fat Greek yogurt actually changes the way it interacts with your body. Can be actually better for you and for your hormones. But while you're doing fasting or mimicking a fast in this way, you actually do wanna go with the low fat. So I don't want you to be sold on the idea low fat is always the better way to go. I don't believe that it is. I think going full fat can be more optimal. I personally would do dairy-free and I do goat or sheep, and sheep is much higher in fat than the goat is, but it's actually creamier because of that. So protein with virtually no accompanying fat, that's the ideal, but you're gonna get some fat. So if you were to choose, say, salmon, obviously you're gonna get a higher fat amount. That might not be what you'd choose on a fasting-mimicking kind of a day because your budget for calories is lower, right? So even a tablespoon of olive oil is 120 calories. That would blow your budget really fast. And that is not going to keep you as full as something that you can chew on, the texture. So when research describes protein-sparing modified fasting as high protein, what it really means is that protein represents about 70 to 90% of total caloric intake for the day. Not that you're eating a high absolute amount necessarily. Just kind of a normal amount really, on a protein-sparing modified fast, the same amount becomes an entire dietary strategy. Research on optimal protein intake during fat-loss phases from Hector and Phillips in 2018 and the International Society for Sports Nutrition position stand in 2017 points to a range roughly of 1.6 to 2.4 grams per kilogram of body weight to protect lean mass. You know, that sits right at about 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, in case you're not wanting to do the math. So there is a study by Lucy Burns, and that is fairly recent, why higher protein wins on low-calorie days. So for years, the conventional wisdom around fasting and cellular repair pointed toward low protein as the trigger for autophagy. So you might remember that I've talked about Dr. Valter Longo and his fasting mimicking diet. It comes in prepackaged kind of dried food, dried soups. It's all very plant-based. It's very low protein. Higher in carb actually makes my blood sugar spike when I've done it with a continuous glucose monitor. Not ideal. And I was completely hungry most of the time. So there's not a lot of food in it. You are around 800 to 900 calories after the first day or two. They wean you into it. That's kind of where you stay. But a 2025 randomized controlled study— these are the best, by the way— published in Clinical Nutrition by Lucy Burns and her colleagues at the University of Nottingham just upended that assumption that in order for the cellular cleanup, the autophagy, to happen, that you had to restrict protein to get those longevity and repair benefits. No, they disproved it, and it directly supports what we're doing with protein fasting. So here's what the study did. Researchers assigned participants to one of three groups for 7 days: a control group eating eating normally, a low-protein fasting-mimicking diet at 850 calories per day with 10% protein, 45% fat, and a high-protein fasting-mimicking diet also at 850 calories per day but with 30% protein, 25% fat. Both fasting groups were eating the same total calories. The only meaningful difference was the protein-to-fat ratio. Both groups triggered autophagy. So higher protein did not shut down cellular repair as previously assumed. But the high-protein group did something the low-protein group didn't. It specifically reduced visceral fat. Ah, here's where it gets interesting. The deep abdominal fat most associated with metabolic disease and hormone hormonal disruption in midlife is that visceral fat. The high protein group also showed improvements in heart rate variability. That is your recovery, your readiness for exercise. Again, gut microbiome diversity also improved, circulating triglycerides improved, and saturated fatty acids improved, none of which improved in the low protein group. Aha, right? So now there's interesting nuance worth noting. The low protein group actually produced more circulating BHB, more measurable ketones. Is that what that is in the blood? Because with higher fat intake, more fat was available for ketone conversion. High protein group produced fewer ketones by comparison. But it still triggered autophagy and it produced superior body composition outcomes. And this tells us that cellular cleanup is not solely dependent on ketone levels. It's driven by the caloric restriction itself, and protein content shapes what happens to your body during that restriction. That's probably worth listening to again. For women in perimenopause and postmenopause, this is really significant. Visceral fat is is specifically linked to estrogen decline. It's the fat that accumulates around the midsection as hormones shift, and it's the most metabolic damaging kind. The fat that has a higher protein, low calorie approach, preferentially targeted visceral fat, while still triggering autophagy and improving cardiovascular and gut markers, is a compelling argument for protein fasting over traditional low-protein fasting approaches. The bottom line from this study: you don't have to choose between cellular repair and muscle and body composition protection. With the right protein-to-calorie ratio, your low-calorie days, you can get both. I want to pause right here though, because this is where I think some extremists— not pointing any fingers could go off the deep end here and think, well, I'm going to just do low calorie and really high protein. And then you're skipping all the other micronutrients in all other foods that you really need to get. There is clear research. I'm not including it here, but I've shared this before, that older adults— and in most research studies, that means 65 and older— in order to gain lean muscle mass and strength, and we want both, you need to get both adequate protein and adequate micronutrient density. Now, you, you eat meat, you're going to benefit from that. Certainly, you're going to get micronutrient density in the amount of calories you're eating. However, you're going to get limited micronutrients. You need a colorful plate. You need all the vegetables. So you cannot only eat protein. You need to get those veggies and those fruits in as well. So I'm going to go into a bit about ketones and what that is. So for those of you who are doing keto diets and keto-friendly this and that, the other thing, you've heard a lot about it and maybe you're more an expert potentially than I, but remember back in the Atkins days, we started hearing about this, get into ketosis, this is all good. But I want to explain why there's a surprising phenomenon with intermittent fasting if you get into ketosis, and part of it is related to hunger, appetite, because it's always a shocker for somebody who fasts for the first time or thinks about doing it. One of the pieces of apprehension is, um, I don't want to be hungry. I don't like to be hungry, and it's so distracting. And ultimately you end up being less distracted because you're not focused on food. Like, what am I going to eat? What am I going to cook for dinner? What am I going to have for breakfast? It's just all done and taken care of because you're not eating or because you're having egg whites or you've got it all figured out if you're doing the fasting mimicking diet and it's a kit, it's in the kit. Whatever they tell you you're having for lunch, you're having for lunch and that's it. It's over and done. You don't think about it, it's kind of refreshing. But here's the part that actually makes this livable because I know what you're thinking—500 to 800 calories sounds miserable. And it can be if you don't understand what happens next. When you're in a very low-calorie state, a high-protein state, your body shifts toward fat oxidation and begins producing ketone ketone bodies. The longer you're in it, the more this is true. The one most associated with appetite suppression is called— and this is a ketone body that we're naming— beta-hydroxybutyrate. Yeah, and it's called BHB for a reason, okay? Research from Stubbs in 2018 in Obesity journal showed that elevated BHB levels directly suppress That's ghrelin. That's your primary hunger hormone. And Sumithran in 2013 in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition backed this up showing that ketosis after caloric restriction keeps hunger signaling hormones lower than you expect for how little you're eating. And in plain terms, the ketones themselves are doing hunger management work work for you. So Hunger Games, you're winning. And this is also why, referencing the Burns study mentioned a little bit earlier, the low-protein group produced more ketones because they were eating more fat. More dietary fat available means more raw material for ketone production. The high-protein group produced fewer ketones but still got the autophagy and the fat loss benefits. I don't know about you, but I like fat. I would— I feel better on a somewhat lower fat, higher protein diet, and I actually do better with probably more carbohydrates than some of you do. But I— we're not comparing that one here at the moment. But the high protein group produced those fewer ketones but still got the autophagy and fat loss benefits. Ketones are one piece of the puzzle. They're not the whole picture, but they're particularly good at suppressing hunger, which is exactly where they matter most on low-calorie days. Here's the practical problem though. On a protein-sparing modified fast day, it can take several hours for your body to shift into meaningful ketone production on its own, especially if you're not already fat adapted. And that transition window in the morning is often when people cave, right? Because you get up in the morning and then once you're active, you're hungry. And it's just like a gut response, like to— for me to have a cup of something, but then to eat shortly after that. And that's when people tend to give up. You don't have the appetite suppression yet, the benefit of the ketones. And so they give up before the hunger passes. And by the way, it will. If you've ever you know, had to go without food, you realize that you're really, really hungry for a bit, and then if you don't eat or can't for some reason, it passes. And it's like, huh, gosh, I'm okay now. So, but this gap is why— one of the reasons I designed Burn Boost. So it's one of our products at Flipping 50. It contains calcium beta-hydroxybutyrate and sodium beta-hydroxybutyrate. Those are exogenous ketone salts. That means BHB that's already formed and ready for your body to use. So it also contains a blend of branched-chain amino acids and essential amino acids. So all 9 of the things we have to eat on a regular basis. Branched-chain are 3 specifics related to muscle building to help protect your muscle during low-calorie periods. So by taking it in a fasted state, I take it first thing in the morning if I want to extend a fast. Now, I don't do that a lot where I'm just solely extending my fast and not having any calories first thing in the morning, but sometimes I'll do it because I know how good I feel if I have to go in for a blood test. And as a midlife woman, you probably know too, you've done more blood tests recently than you had in a long time. And it's like, why don't I do this more often? If I delay breakfast, I actually feel feel a little bit better, a little bit lighter than like having to consume calories right away. I realized that my blood sugar is probably better the rest of the day if I do it that way, but I cave in too. So by taking the Burn Boost in a fasted state the first thing in the morning or at the start of a low-calorie day, you deliver BHB to your system before your body has ramped up its own production. And the appetite suppression mechanism can kick in earlier. Makes the whole day dramatically easier to sustain. I will do it on my low calorie days and I will do it, say, before I'm going to go for a walk with the dog. And maybe it's a 45 to an hour walk. It's not high intensity. It's a dog stop, smell the fire hydrant kind of a walk. But that is perfect use of it. I have used it right before or somewhat before high-intensity interval training, short workouts, and then I eat right after I'm done with that. But generally it's lower-level activity days that I will do this for. Real quick, I want to answer a question I get so often. What supplements do I invest in? What's worth it? Well, here's something I've been doing for years. I keep these next to my coffee as a part of my morning routine and let me Let me tell you, nobody messes with my coffee. 2 longevity gummies, I think, is far easier than another pill. These longevity gummies are powered by Mitopure, the only clinically proven form of urolithin A shown in human studies to help renew mitochondrial function, a key driver in healthy aging. Look, midlife changes are not only hormonal. Cellular energy decline is a big part of how we feel as we age. And it plays a major part in gaining strength in our ability to have muscular function. In fact, Mitopure has been clinically shown to support muscle strength and function. In fact, it targets a key hallmark of aging, again, that mitochondrial decline. It helps you stay active, capable, and vibrant. And Mitopure is the number one doctor-recommended urolytic an A supplement. Are you a prove-it-to-me girl like me? Well, I love the fact that it's backed by more than 15 years of research in mitochondrial health. It's been studied in multiple human clinical trials, including on older adults, and it delivers a precise standardized dose, the one used in research. Timeline is a science-first longevity company. I like Support your cells and how you age with Mitopure gummies from Timeline. Visit timeline.com/Flipping50Show and save up to 39% off your Mitopure gummies. That's timeline.com/Flipping50Show. Okay, now here's the real thing. This is why this matters so much more during menopause, why we're talking about whether fasting fasting, number one, is or isn't the ideal thing for you to do during menopause is because so often you've heard me say this in a different way. And I say the exercise is not the problem. Often it's the recovery from the exercise that's a problem. So if we come back to the very basis of intermittent fasting, not eating for long periods of time might actually inhibit your recovery. And then, you know, if we are the women we are taking it to extremes potentially, and we're not only not eating within a large window of time, but we're also cutting down what we do eat. And so we're in a caloric deficit, or that's not necessarily a problem. It's a caloric deprivation plus a long window of time when we're not eating at all. And the intermittent fasting, by the way, is not the problem. We should have periods of time when we do and we don't eat. Snacking and grazing constantly is not okay unless you're a cow trying to get fat or you're a baby growing by leaps and bounds. I mean, the amount of growth that happens in a year is crazy, right? For that reason, they should eat. But why is this also relevant to women in midlife? It's because of our ability to, number one, physiologically and therefore psychologically feel safe. We have to nurture the body in order for it not to go into stress mode where it's going to, "I'm holding on to everything you give me, every little morsel, storing it right here, right here," right where we don't want it because I'm under duress. And that's what the body is going to say at menopause. And it will be worse if we offer these, what we know to be— this is a hormetic stressor. We are applying stress and we're doing it in a calculated way. And yet if we've stacked them all up on top of each other, it's not a great thing. So you want to do a multi-day event on a bicycle. You want to deprive yourself of calories, not eat before you get on that bike in the morning. Not really eat well when you come off of it, eat more quote-unquote junk food because you haven't eaten well, and then you're craving, and then your stress level is up, you're not sleeping because you're overtired and under-recovered. You know, that's just one example, but it's of, you know, someone I can think of who actually underwent this and didn't understand it, you know, until she started eating well. taking a nap in the middle of the day, snacking, timing the hydration and the food— that it worked. And so the answer I want to give you before you ask the question is, you know, intermittent fasting may work if you apply it in the right way. All of this is especially relevant to women in perimenopause and postmenopause. Declining estrogen directly impairs muscle protein synthesis So premenopause to perimenopause and beyond, boom, it's lower. And we are also getting older. It lowers over that time. That doesn't mean we can't do things to bump it back up, but eating less and less protein are not necessarily super conducive to helping you, okay? So that means you have to work harder to maintain the muscle you have. And at the same time, the hormonal shifts of this life stage make fat loss harder, not impossible, but harder, and they make hunger regulation less predictable. Cortisol sensitivity increases, your insulin sensitivity decreases, not a great combination. And the usual calorie restriction strategies tend to backfire by accelerating muscle loss. And that means short-term, by the weekend, you'll be like, "Yes, I lost a few pounds." By next year, you're going to be like, "Oh my gosh." My metabolism is slow, slow. I'm so tired. I'm weaker. It's because of this little short-term success we thought we had. So protein-sparing modified fasting used strategically 1 to 3 times a week, maybe, meaning say on Tuesday you do it and on Thursday you do it. Maybe Saturday you do or you don't do it. Maybe that's not appropriate for you. Doing it not every day threads a very specific needle, right? You create a meaningful caloric deficit and you can look at it on a big picture. So yes, during that day you're doing it, but also if you look at the overall week, you would take in X if you were eating normally every day, and you're going to take in less than that for the total week. And we can look at it this way too, so it gives you a different kind of perspective. You preserve your muscle because protein intake stays sufficient. And that's one of the most important things. If you'll remember, I've shared research from Dr. Abby Smith Ryan's research where it's unusual, it's not the first thing we think of, but eating before a workout, eating protein tends to, for women in menopause, spare muscle breakdown and tearing. And usually we think, oh, before a workout, I want some carbohydrates to fuel that workout. But when we are talking specifically you and me, sister, like, like the girlfriends in the room, we need to think about this. And maybe you do need a little bit of carbohydrate, but getting in protein before is kind of like prevent the breakdown from happening. So we're not just playing catch-up afterward, we're actually maybe bookending the workout with a pre-protein and then an after protein and carbohydrate meal that actually helps restore and replenish. So you preserve that protein because you get protein in when you're fasting in this way. Ketone production suppresses hunger, so the deficit becomes tolerable, right? So as Lucy Burns and her team showed us in the 2025 study, you may even trigger the cellular repair benefits associated with longer fasts fast without the prolonged muscle breakdown risk that makes extended fasting so problematic for women in midlife. This isn't about eating less and suffering through it. It's about using what we know from the science to make low-calorie days strategic, sustainable, and muscle protective. The research on alternate-day fasting told us that fasting alone is not superior. The research on protein intake told us that protecting muscle requires sufficient protein even in a deficit. I'm going to say those two things again. The research on alternate-day fasting told us fasting alone is not superior to lower-calorie diets. The research on protein intake tells us protecting muscle requires sufficient protein even in a deficit. It. And I would say prior guest Bill Campbell, PhD, also told us this. His research suggested we don't change calories. If we don't change calories but we increase the amount of those calories that come from protein, fat loss ensues and happens. So how much better would that be, right? We don't have to necessarily diet if you're already eating a low-calorie amount. You don't want to drop it even lower because we're putting the brake on the metabolism. We have to think about those long-term ramifications. I want you to think about another friend of ours who's been on the show as well. And if you think about McCall McPherson, who's an expert in thyroid function and thyroid health, you know, if you have a problem with the thyroid, you have hypoactive— that's slower lower, needing— you're probably on Synthroid or LP or something, NP, I'm sorry, thyroid to help kick it in. That means all automatically you have an adrenal problem. And I hesitated at problem, but your adrenals were stressed, and that's ultimately why it got to the point where the thyroid was next in line. So you have to nurture both. And I think sometimes this is where we come back to the real conclusion of this episode is still a question. Do you need to nurture and eat more and support your adrenals and your thyroid and your metabolism by feeding it more? And maybe intermittent fasting is not the way, except for at least 12 hours overnight between meals, no snacks, if you really have insufficient adrenals, right? You have adrenal insufficiency is literally the label. Regular snacks actually throughout the day can be very beneficial because blood sugar is wonky— very technical term, I know— but blood sugar control is supported by, say, regular movement throughout the day, regular eating throughout the day. And for any of the rest of us, I would say that's an absolute no, that's a hard stop. That small meals spread throughout the day was not an ideal recommendation, not unless you're a bodybuilder trying to gain weight, and yet specifically muscle weight. So let's come back. The BURN study told us higher protein fasting does not sacrifice cellular repair. Those of you that want autophagy, and truly that's the reason you're doing it, you do not have to starve or go into that diet mode. It just makes the outcome better for your body composition if you're doing it this way. So put it all together and what you have is a framework that works with your midlife and beyond biology in menopause rather than against it. It's— that's what protein fasting is. And so that's why I think that it's one of the most underutilized tools available to women in this stage. But yet, this is not necessarily for everybody. If you are tired all the time right now, you're really struggling and you're under a lot of siege from life stressors, as well as maybe a history of dieting, not eating enough, not sleeping well enough, trying to over-exercise, and right now nothing is working, I would say fasting is not the first step. Right now, fueling, sleeping, resting, looking at micronutrient sufficiency, because if you are struggling to lose weight Often we will go there even if we're really tired. We will go to deprivation. So I want you to realize this is not anything wrong with you. It's that you've been subject to the last 40 years of messaging from ads and the diet industry that wants you to believe that, yes, you need something, you need less food, or you need to be more perfect by losing weight. And that's not necessarily how you're going to get there. If you do have weight or fat to lose, there's a better way to do it. So number one, first determine, is it the right time for you? If it is and you want to try this, here's what I personally would try. And I would tell you, I haven't done this yet. I have a history. I've tried the fasting mimicking diet and I used it with a few select clients. You know, I no longer do. I don't love I don't love the packaged processed foods. I don't love the powdered foods. They actually spike my blood sugar, you know. And the value that I've gotten from fasting mimicking diet process myself is just the realization that when I'm done with those 5 days, how automatically you would just eat certain amounts of food because of the trigger of the time to do it or the social component of doing it. And that I eat generally more than I ever need to to actually just take off the edge of hunger. And so that was a real wake-up call. And you have that moment of realization that if I let the hunger and just roll with that, like you do an emotion that's unpleasant, it subsides and you're not as hungry. And you realize is nothing bad will happen if I don't eat right now. Like, I'm fine. So for those of us that don't have a true, real blood sugar problem, we're not going to crash and cause health problems, that's a good realization, I think. But what I want you to realize is if you're choosing it, I will try this and, you know, probably do one day a week because as you introduce anything, whether it's interval training, weight training, I would say we want two or more, but You start with the least amount and test it. Like, I don't have to commit, "I'm going to do 2 days a week." How about we just do the 1 and see how it goes, right? So it would be planning, like, what would my day look like? You know, so I might start with a, you know, if I wanted to do something with protein and, you know, say it was cold season, it's, it's still winter here. As I'm doing this, I might do like a warm porridge with protein powder in it, a little, little bit of sweetener. So I might do maple syrup. I like it because it gives it a little more edge. And I use riced cauliflower and cook it up and then make it creamy. It's like cream of wheat. And if it has a little lump in it, that's how my stepdad made it. So it's like going back in time. You know, so that might be one. So very low carb, very high protein. So cauliflower, by the way, is so much lower in calories even than broccoli. And if we're talking like, like twice as low, so it's worth it. Other option might be I could do egg whites, and I like to put on my egg whites salsa, you know, to give them some flavor. Or you could do like steamed or cooked vegetables like peppers don't have a lot of calories in them, and it's going to give it some color. And I might use coconut aminos to cook it in, so not using oil, and/or bone broth just to have a little liquid there that's got a little flavor in it. So egg whites and the veggies. So again, I want not just protein alone, you know, but I want to make sure I get those things. So very low-fat, low-carb, our high protein in both of those meals, right? And then, you know, looking at maybe I would do a burger, which is really easy if you just— any, any ground meat that you prefer. So I like bison personally. If I was gonna make it like literally a burger, I would use that and grill it, right? Because that's easy way to make it low-fat. You don't have to put it in the pan that the, you know, grease cooks off of it. And, you know, now you've got 3 high-protein meals. And I would go to my little Google or an app and say, okay, how many grams of protein, how many calories is that, where am I at? And, you know, there you have it. That might be an idea of, all right, let's try that. And, you know, maybe you do another small burger later in the day. Give yourself a good window of opportunity also, so you're doing The fasting— and it's not just the timing and the window, it's not just the, um, window alone or the low protein, it's the caloric deficit. And then you can combine it with a window that is reasonable for you. I actually sleep so much better when I am fasted. I like to finish my last meal of the day by like 4 or 5 5. And I know that seems early, but I do it sometimes when I've got a coaching call that starts at 4 and I know I might be on late answering questions until 5:30. And, you know, then I— that's a normal time to eat, but I like to get edgy and I go to bed fairly early. So if I finish by 4, and I have done experiments where I've like, okay, last meal of the day, I'm finishing by about 3. And then I'm going to bed maybe by 8:30, 9:00. I've had 6 hours. I get up the next day by 5 or 6 because of a dog. I could probably sleep easily till 6 if it was dark anyway. And then I've had 15 hours of fasting if that's true. And that's about as long as I want or need to go. I've sometimes extended it to 8 or to 9 in the morning and gotten a Okay, now I've done— if I ended at 3 and I wait till 9, that's an 18-hour fast, and that's as long as I'll do, maybe once a month. But I want you to think about the fact that is it a good idea for you right now? But now you may have other options other than just super deprivation. And going this route for midlife women in who really want to continue that fasting is a really great idea. So I personally am at a point where, you know, it's probably always that last 3 to 5 pounds. Like, yep, I wish I could just get that off and just get a little bit leaner, right? But for me, it is much more beneficial mentally to focus on gaining lean muscle I'm going to train a little differently, get more steps in, and that actually gets me as lean as doing any kind of dieting. Because I personally— and I want you to ask this rhetorical question of yourself— I personally notice when I'm eating less, I want to conserve. I'm not as likely to go for another walk in the afternoon, even if I have the time and the space to do that. And I like to be outside. And so that's not normal for me. And I'm, you know, not doing an extra set, I'm not doing an extra exercise, I'm just ready to go, right? Kind of short-sheeting. So I would rather go for a little bit higher activity level than go with lower or less food, because what you're doing is what I've called so many times couch compensating, not necessarily because of the couch, but because of the refrigerator in the cupboard. You're not eating as much, and so your body just says, "Well, okay, we're going to conserve here. I'm not really going to work very hard for you, and I'm not going to burn many calories." So you've got to figure, is what you're doing actually getting you the results you want? We all want a higher metabolism. And if you are shutting down your metabolism to do the thing you think is going to help you lose the weight, in the long run— and it's going to happen in a shorter and shorter time span the older we get— but in the long run, we are shooting ourselves in the metabolism. We're decreasing it by doing the things we're doing. If you're a woman who's, you know, I'm not very hungry, and so I'm just going to fast through the morning, morning. You're not really fasting if it's because you don't have an appetite. That begs unpacking. You need to unpack why would that be true? Why aren't you hungry? We should be hungry. And this is a really important thing to ask. Okay, thank you so much for listening. I know this has been a really long one and I hope it's been beneficial. I think it's also been a little bit of me meandering or wandering around of, you know, where can we go with this? Because I needed to unpack the whole landscape of intermittent fasting, really talk a little bit about what that is. There will be other prior episodes here in this show notes so that you can go to other things about intermittent fasting and look at, you know, I've always said exercise during your fed window, not your fasted. I don't love exercise fasted for most women in midlife and beyond, and I stood that solid ground and I always will. My friends who said, "No, exercise fasted, you'll burn more fat," have come full circle. Trusted experts that you and I follow, but they're good friends and they have come back around and It's because, you know, potentially seeing older adults or older parents suffer, getting really into the deeper literature about it, looking at what's happening with body composition and bone density when we skip or skimp on our micronutrients. You're not going to calcium away bone loss. You can't do that via supplement. You've got to eat all the rainbow. You've got to eat the foods. You've got to do the exercise. And your body will shut down and rob from wherever it needs to, to put it in the right place. So it's important that we are doing the right thing. We can't take the shortcuts anymore. The long way around is the shortcut. So here's a way for you to try intermittent fasting if you are doing it now and test it. So I plan to, so I will keep you posted. We're going to release this one in March of 2026. So feel free to ask me if you see me on Insta, which is where I open all the DMs myself, uh, how it's going or what I've noticed. And here's the big truth for all of us: we can't just keep cutting back, cutting back, cutting back, eating less, eating less, eating less. Fueling your body is actually the All right. I will see you all on the flip side. Thank you so much for being here. If this has been helpful, please share this with a friend.