Menopause Motivation and Mood Boost without Prescription (or Hangover Effect)

If you've never wanted to use CBD, stay tuned to this episode. Right, how's that for an opening and an invitation? This is for those of you that aren't sure what it is, how it works, might fear that you'd get hooked and don't wanna do that, don't wanna be reliant on anything for sleep. And actually we're not talking about sleep today, so tune in. And this is about motivation. It's about mood. It's about anxiety, about depression, about how we're affected and impacted, not just by this moment in time in our society, but by midlife hormonal shifts. You're in perimenopause, menopause, or postmenopause, and you're not slowing down. You're just getting started. But the old rules don't apply anymore. The workouts that worked before, they're working against you now. The advice you've been given, incomplete at best. I'm Debra Atkinson, and I'm the founder of Flipping 50, the pioneer in fitness for women in midlife. For more than 40 years, I've been in the trenches with women just like you, and for the last 12, right here on this podcast, and, and the founder of Flipping 50: The Stronger Way app and membership. Welcome to Flipping 50 the Stronger Way, where science meets strength, where you'll find the tools, research, and real talk to build the body and the life you want in your second half. Each week you'll get evidence-based exercise and nutrition strategies, conversations with leading experts, and honest answers to the questions your doctor didn't get answers to in medical school and doesn't have time to answer in an appointment. This is your show. Let's get stronger. Hey, I'm so excited to have you back. So welcome or welcome back to the show. And whether you've been around for a long time or this is your first time listening, I think you're in for a treat. So we're talking about something slightly off the beaten path from exercise, but then again, not really. This is all about the— how do we get there to the motivation and the feeling like exercising so that we can be compliant with it? Because there is a lot going on with women over 40 during menopause and post-menopause that has a lot to do with our serotonin or dopamine levels, those neurotransmitters that are related to mood and therefore to motivation. And we talk also about depression and anxiety, which impact more women over 50 than any other age and much more than men. So if those are things that even mildly you deal with, whether situational or otherwise, there is a reason why you may wanna consider CBD. And even if you're thinking, I don't wanna consider CBD, I'm not even interested in that, or don't know that it's safe or fear that it might be addictive, stay tuned to this episode because I think you'll learn a lot about mood, mood disorders, things that we all go through due to hormonal shifts and the climate of our current environment that makes it a little bit more difficult no matter who you are and what age you're in. My guest today is a returning guest, Dr. D, Dr. Eric Dorniger. He's a registered naturopathic doctor, licensed acupuncturist. He graduated from Bastyr University, the leading accredited university for science-based natural medicine. He founded Roots and Branches Integrative Healthcare. It's a clinic dedicated to mystery illnesses where he looks at solving the hard cases when nobody else can, essentially. And he lives near Boulder, Colorado, and I'm kicking myself for having recently been there and not been able to invite him in to speak to our group. But there just wasn't time. So if you're interested, by the way, in an upcoming retreat as we open up Boulder 2027, because we have a limited space, we're all staying in the same Airbnb and there are a limited number of bedrooms. Let me know. Go to the show notes in case we're ready. I think you're gonna pick up some really fun terms here. We have a great banter going back and forth, but we talk about things like how does CBD help regulate mood and anxiety daily and how we deal with the daily stressors and the lack of motivation for doing things that we, we really want, or we want at least the outcomes for them, but we sometimes struggle to get started. If that's you, stay tuned. You're going to learn a little bit more about some of the receptors and those responsible for getting us sharp, but also anti-anxiety. Yes, please, right? So there is no sedative effect of some CBDs, and that's where you need to know what to look for and ask. And actually, Dr. Dee relates to us how does somebody has never done it before get started safely and experiment with just the amount that they need and no more? We answer that question in this episode. Can't wait to dive in. Dr. D, you're back in the house. Thanks so much for being here.

Thanks for having me. Really looking forward to today's conversation.

So, you know, in the green room before we go on, everybody, that's where the good stuff happens. I'm so sorry. Next time we should just turn on the recording before we get started because it's always the good stuff. But we talked a little bit about a recent retreat we we just finished our annual Boulder in June, which is like just saying we went to heaven for a few days, and it's always perfect. But we often— we've got women gathering together, and we were in the same Airbnb, which can be wonderful and not so, depending on if you're used to certain noises or not. You're used to extreme quiet, you know. You've got all these women padding around at their own timing, you know, going to the bathroom, not going to the bathroom, whatever. But we gave them in their goodie bags, we gave them some sleep gels and from Blue Sky. And inevitably, one by one, like after the first night and the second night, I didn't sleep very well. I'm like, did you open your goodie bag? That's why we gave you those just in case. They're right there. By the end, almost everybody was trying either 1 or 2 a night to have a better night's sleep. And it is so crucial. And it's crucial to something we're talking about a little more today. Like, you don't sleep well, your motivation, coordination, number 1, can be issues for exercise, but your mood changes dramatically. Mine does, at least. I mean, don't look at me sideways. So talk a little bit about CBD related to mood, not necessarily tied to sleep, but how does that impact you and how do you avoid, you know, not getting sleepy? 'Cause now I've got all these women associating CBD with sleep and they're like, well, I don't wanna take that 'cause I don't want the sleep.

Mm-hmm. Well, maybe we'll even start even further back and say, where do mood disorders come from?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Whether it's anxiety, depression, OCD, intrusive thoughts, attention deficit, ADHD, and even on the most intense days, bipolar, schizophrenia. Every single mood disorder known to humans is based in higher levels of inflammatory cytokines. So when you look at every single thing I just said, major depressive disorder, anxiety, OCD, they all have higher levels of inflammation than healthy control groups who are not experiencing those moods. So someone who doesn't experience anxiety versus someone who does, the person who does has higher levels of inflammation.

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Well, that's where, you know, I run a, uh, my clinic Roots and Branches, um, runs a clinic dedicated to chronic complex mystery illness. So when people have been to 14 doctors and they're not figuring out why migraine or this crazy skin rash that only responds to steroids or doesn't even respond to steroids anymore. Our whole brand is going inflammation hunting, inflammation killing. So I'm going to say the inflammation has an origin story always. And one of those potential origin stories that we're going to get into today is endogenoid— endogenous cannabinoid deficiency. Which is where your self-made, God-given cannabinoids are getting consumed by inflammation and then opening the door to things like anxiety and depression.

I think you just surprised some listeners. Like, they had self-endogenous cannabinoids?

Yes.

Okay.

If you wanna— you were just talking about Boulder and, um, yes, and I taught at— I taught at I taught at Naropa University for 10 years, and I brought some basic sciences there. So these kids were going to be somatic psychologists, where it's like really incredible mental work, but, but partially by getting into your body, into your parasympathetic, or they were going to be yoga teachers, or they were going to be pre-med. And so I brought anatomy and nutrition to Naropa, and I actually started a cadaver lab for the undergrad students.

Wow.

Locally. Yeah. And it's like, how are you going to teach yoga if you don't really know your anatomy? And so on and so forth. And I remember one of my students who was like, God wants me to smoke weed. I have endogenous cannabinoid receptors. And I was like, you know what the word endogenous means, right? And he says, well, I don't know. It means self-made. So we make our own cannabinoids and it's a massive part of our anti-inflammatory immune modulation system. So endogenous self-made cannabinoids help our neuroendocrine immune, our brain, um, endocrine gland immune system triangle relationship stay in harmony. And when you have something super inflammatory like concussion or, um, you went down to Nicaragua for a surf trip and you're feeling great and then you get E. coli and you rip open your gut and now you have leaky gut or you get into water damage building, moldy buildings known as chronic inflammatory response syndrome or you took a whole bunch of antibiotics for your earaches and threw off your good gut bacteria and now you're inflammatory from that, postmenopausal losing your massive heroic anti-inflammatory, immune-modulating, anabolic estrogen and progesterone. All those things are inflammatory. And then you start consuming your self-made endogenous cannabinoids, your internal firefighters, who are also like the peacemakers. Like, endogenous cannabinoids just tell everybody, hey man, let's all get along and let's function well today without panic. And anxiety and depression and joint pain and headaches and irritable bowel symptoms. So endogenous cannabinoids are made predominantly from eating healthy fats. Fish oil downstreams into endogenous cannabinoids. Um, olive oil downstreams into self-made endogenous cannabinoids. One of the most potent endogenous cannabinoids is called anandamide. Which in Sanskrit means bliss molecule. So yes, please. Yeah. And when you're having your, your good healthy diet and your inflammatory states are low and you don't have untreated apnea and a tooth abscess and concussion history and you're eating pub grub and drinking too much on Wall Street and sitting there with, you know, 14 rounds of antibiotics that took out your good gut biome. They actually— and you're, and you're bringing those healthy fats and you move your body, you actually do a pretty good job, um, creating and recycling your endogenous cannabinoids. And there's two real fun studies, um, I have three studies I really want to make sure your listeners get, but here's two of them. And they, they pull blood of endogenous cannabinoids and then put people in on spin bikes And they did basically a spin class and the endogenous cannabinoids went up 20%. So we know— yes, I was in the green room. We were talking about— I just love your resistance training videos because even though we hit the drum so hard, I still don't think there's enough leadership and enough support to get women, but particularly 40 and older and then postmenopausal, resistance training. And it is like a miracle drug for, for women and the guys. It's a lot more in the bro sphere. Right. And, and, you know, my boys are 19 and 17 and they want to make gains and it's just like in their world. Right. And, and, and postmenopausal women, when they go hit their workouts, they're getting a 20% increase in endogenous cannabinoids. Now you pump them full of healthy fat.

Okay, hold on a second. I got to ask this. So what about those women who really drag their feet and really every other part of their body and just say, I hate weight training, I don't want to weight train. Are they still getting this HIIT in spite of—

Yeah. So it's— you really want to mix up that cardio. With the, um, with the resistance training. And as a guy who trained as an acupuncturist too, so I'm a doctor of naturopathic medicine from Bastyr Naturopathic Medical School, and then I also did my master of science in acupuncture. And what you get out of acupuncture and Ayurvedic medicine, traditional India medicine, is body typing knowledge. In the Western biochemistry, it's called mesomorph, ectomorph, endomorph. And and you learn very quickly we all have athletic narcissism. And athletic narcissism is, I like to do what I'm organically God-given good at. And that's it. We were talking about our friend.

Wait a minute. I have never heard that term. Did you make that up?

I did.

Say that term again.

It's athletic narcissism. And if I'm a big husky guy, that's my older brother. He came out of the womb with the God-given ability to lift the car off the baby, right? He's just— he doesn't even need to ever see no weight bench. He just— right? And I came out of the womb a little more Bruce Lee. So I want to be on the soccer field juking you or going to the open space. Wayne Gretzky, right? Go to the open space quick. Right? Is Wayne Gretzky a brawler? No, he's a speed guy. Right? So the thin lankies love their cardio, and they really need to lift and put on substance because they're going to run out of bone and lean muscle in their older decades. And the huskies love to just go in and show you how I can 600-pound deadlift a hex bar, right? And they really need cardio. So we used to tease my brother and call him Frogman growing up, and I don't know why, but that made him bananas. And if he grabbed you with that ox strength, he could rip your head off like, you know, popping a cap off of a cold brew on a summer afternoon. But, I was too quick. So, the best martial art for the thin lanky is parkour and I'd be out of there, right? So, it took me a long time to realize I need to work on maintaining muscle mass as a thin lanky and he needed to work on tearing bringing substance down with cardio. Right. So it's almost like he makes the best triathlete because he has the substance to burn into being running for 26.2 miles, being on the bike for 100 miles. Right. Whereas I need to get my butt in the gym and maintain bone and lean muscle. So, yeah. So, so the first thing I'll say is, yeah, know your healthcare narcissist. And do the thing that you know that— do the thing that you hate doing on the front end. But I will, I promise you all, um, tagging along with my wife, um, uh, and, and her lifting classes, like, it took me a hot minute, but then I fell in love, you know. So you, you— there's falling in love with things that are easy Mm-hmm. Right. And then there's a different kind of love, almost like parenting, where you fall in love with the effort and the sacrifice and pouring your soul into something. And that's kind of like a skinny person learning how to lift. And it's kind of like a more heavyset person learning how to run. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So true. Yeah. Favorite quote ever, probably from somebody, was you know, they were really resistant to doing the exercise, that what they wanted was to lose weight. But it's like, you know, I did this, I started this to lose weight, but I got my life back. You know, it's the intangible thing that they get from it that's as valuable as the tangible. I love that you said that. Yes, so good. Okay, so I interrupted you. So yeah, so now So they got these people on the bike, right?

And for 20 minutes they, uh, and a real quick check-in, do I need to click my record too?

No.

Okay, good.

We're recording you even against your will. So we got it. Yes.

What else is new? So, so they had a 20% increase on, uh, endogenous cannabinoids, self-made cannabinoids. And that is totally part of the runner's high. That is totally part of the weightlifter's high, is you get endogenous cannabinoids And you're like, man, I came in kind of depressed and anxious and now I'm high on anandamide. I'm high on oleoethylamide, the endogenous cannabinoid that comes off olive oil. I'm high on PEA, palmitoethylamide. And you're supposed to get those from moving, right? And why do we stop after high school soccer? What, you know, maybe if you're lucky, you're hanging out in college with friends who do flag football. Football or, or, or intramural soccer, or you play racquetball with a buddy or pickleball. And sometimes you just start studying and getting hemorrhoids, right? So then after college, for sure, most of us become desk jockeys. And then you're just— you, you just lose your playful movement that was establishing you. I did marching band and skateboarded and played soccer, so I kind of got the team sports, the extreme but also just like marching band was good work.

You're a band geek. Wow.

I'm a total band geek. Yeah. Bass, trombone. And it actually, I'll tell you, it helps in kickboxing because you learn how to do rhythms, right? One, one, one, two, one, two, three. Right. And it's just, it's just we forget how much joy that brings. But a big part of that biochemically is you're releasing the hounds of endogenous cannabinoids. And if you bring in those healthy fats— as a child of the '80s, I always say healthy fats make me skinny, healthy fats make me skinny. Do the exact opposite of everything public health taught me in the '80s and I will live long and prosper. Don't fear the fat. Cholesterol does not predict who's going to heart attack or stroke. Salt is not Satan, eggs are not the devil, and nerves do regrow.

Probably right there was just the mic drop in case you all missed it. Stop, rewind, play it again. Yeah.

Yeah. There was one thing they got right in the '80s. I don't know if you remember this one, but it was Eat the Rainbow, right? Purple cabbage and blue blueberries and red beets and green—

But somebody ran away and thought that meant Skittles.

So, so the other study I wanted to bring on endogenous cannabinoids is So then they take these 9 choir members in the UK and they pull their endogenous cannabinoids before and after choir practice. They had a 42% increase in their endogenous cannabinoids. Wow.

So do we think that's from the music alone because they loved it?

Because there's, there's 2 variables there, right? There's 9 people who know each other and congregate and we know that there's another study that shows isolation and loneliness is literally inflammatory. So when we're doing whole health and we're looking at that body, mind, and spirit on that chronic complex mystery illness patient, a huge source of inflammation sometimes is isolation and loneliness, right? They have to cancel the camping trip. They don't have their friends at the gym anymore because they're not as nimble. And part of my whole thing is getting them back into community. I could feel a little verklempt because I'm thinking of a patient. And one of the ways you can do that, and I was inspired by this study, is make music if you can't make movement yet, and then maybe make time for both. Right. But even if you're nursing a knee replacement, right. We have the Mako knee replacement now here. They're 3D printing knee replacements in Boulder, and you're walking that same day.

Okay. Yeah. Well, now I know where I'm coming when I start falling apart. Okay.

When I— when I— when I'm— I think I'm probably 10, 15 years out on my right knee, and I'm thinking if they're doing this today, they do this high-resolution CT of your actual knee and then they 3D print. The appliance that they're going to install, and people in their 80s are standing and walking that same day.

Amazing.

Amazing, right? And this is why. But who cares if you don't have the lean muscle to go with it and you're anxious and depressed all day and they didn't treat your apnea, right? Or you didn't learn how to lift, right? And I tell people all the time, it's never too late. But sometimes someone's coming off rehab or they're going through multiple sclerosis get in a choir. You know, if your arms are working, pick up a fiddle, right? If you like music, go out and make sure you see your favorite band when they're in town, right? Stay engaged, right? Make music metaphorically and literally. So those are two like, wow, our body is supposed to move. Our body is supposed to sit around the fire and play a drum and sing. Right. Our body's supposed to congregate in community and all those things are anti-inflammatory and pop our endogenous cannabinoids or self-made cannabinoids.

So cool. And I think this is so refreshing because I think we're used to having conversations about how do you inspire serotonin or dopamine or oxytocin? Tell me how that's— this is related versus different. Hey, real quick before we get started, did you know 3 out of 4 US homes have toxic chemicals in their tap water? Even though contaminated water looks clear, it could put you at risk for devastating health concerns including fatigue, hormone disruption, cognitive decline, even cancer. Surprisingly, standard fridge and pitcher filters do little to remove most contaminants, and bottled water contains microplastic. So what's the solution? Introducing AquaTru, the countertop water purifier tested and certified to remove 84 contaminants including chlorine, lead, forever chemicals, and microplastics. Its patented 4-stage reverse osmosis system goes way beyond ordinary filters for pure, healthy water you can trust. No plumbing, no installation. AquaTru has been featured in Business Insider, Popular Science, and named best countertop water filter by Good Housekeeping. Join 98% of customers who say their drinking water is cleaner, safer, and healthier. Go to aquatru.com for 20% off your purifier using promo code FLIPPING50. AquaTru even comes with a 30-day best-tasting water guarantee. That's aquatru.com. A-Q-U www.atru.com, promo code FLIPPING50.

It's a great question. So you know that I do research and development for Blue Sky CBD, and I was— I think I might have told your listeners, John, but long story short, one of the founders, one of the original members used to come to my office and sell heart disease labs. And the most important thing to make sure you have heart disease or not is a heart scan, calcium score, and a carotid ultrasound. That's the test to say yes, you is, or no, you isn't. It's kind of the mammogram of the heart, so to speak, right? And I would say, no, that's BS, and I don't need that, and that's a waste of insurance money, and this is a waste of my patient's money. And he said, we like the way you think, why don't you do research and development? So I took the job because patients were coming to my office and telling me glory stories about hemp and CBD and all this stuff. And when I would ask them, well, what dosage are you using? Or how do you apply it? Or are you taking it orally or taking it topically? It was all over the map. And what I like to do is get reproducible results, whether Susie or Tommy or Timmy walks into my office. I want everyone's migraine to go away. And everyone's migraine's a little different. Every treatment's a little bit different, but you learn as much from your patients as they learn from you if, if you're paying attention. And so I sat down and I went through all the peer-reviewed literature that's available on cannabidiol in the medical research. And it was 90 hours. And that's where I put together my first slide deck for, for Blue Sky on here's all the mechanism of action. Here's all the studies. Here's all the research on cannabidiol. And what I was surprised to see is there's minimal research on hemp, full spectrum hemp. There's maximal research on pure cannabidiol isolate. So all the proven stuff is on the CBD isolate, whether it's Parkinson's or MS or anxiety or depression. Or alcohol cessation or quitting smoking. Some of the breast cancer cell line studies is all on pure cannabidiol isolate. And what I— how it works is pure cannabidiol increases 5-HT1A binding, which is the serotonin receptor. It's the most ubiquitous serotonin receptor. It increases for enthusiasm. So anxiety and depression are the opposite of enthusiasm, right? So depression is, I don't know, you go out to the potluck maybe next year, right? And enthusiasm is such an underrated brain experience because if you're talking to me about the importance of resistance training, and my serotonin's up, it might be the day I get off the couch and go. I'm gonna start small, but I think I can get this spark to turn into a bonfire. Right? And that's 5-HT1A. Dopamine 2, cannabidiol enhances D2 binding, and dopamine is ambition and drive, feelings of self-worth, hopefulness, decisiveness, courage. And the ability to finish tasks. Dopamine. So people talk about GABA all day for anxiety, and we're going to talk about that next because cannabidiol actually hits the GABA-A receptor too. But the true antidote for anxiety is courage, right? So if we're in the Lord of the Rings together and there are orcs coming over the hill and my dopamine 2 receptors aren't binding, I'm going to say, You go and fight those orcs, right? I don't— they're orcs and there's a lot of them, right? If my dopamine too is up, which is how you feel after a workout, workouts also increase dopamine in the brain. You're like, let's fight orcs, right? And in this crazy world where every week is a new stock market roll and gas prices are up, no, they're down. Oh, interest rates are coming down. We should get in the housing market. No, they went up. The AI is going to steal my job. If you don't have dopamine, you are toast. Right. Ambition and drive, feelings of self-worth, hopefulness, decisiveness, courage, and the ability to finish tasks. Right.

Wow.

Yeah. So one of the antidotes to anxiety is dopamine. And sleep apnea crashes dopamine. Blood sugar problems and hypoglycemia crash dopamine. Sedentary lifestyle crashes dopamine. Low iron crashes dopamine. So if you're— yeah, if you're this awesome volleyballer at 13 and you're just this badass killer and everyone's like, wow, can't wait till she gets to high school, and then you get heavy bleeds from estrogen dominance, and now you not only go into anemia where you're not carrying oxygen to your cells, but you also don't have a ferritin in the 60s to 80s to evidence I have enough iron to make dopamine, you're going to crash, you know. And while we're here, vitamin D does a similar thing for serotonin. And that's why we call vitamin D nature's Prozac.

Right.

And I know because I went to Bastyr in Seattle, Washington. And I know why all that heavy-duty, awesome, dark grunge music came out of Seattle because when you don't see the sun for 90 days, you want to drink Starbucks and shoot heroin and write heavy-duty, crazy lyrics, right? And when we think about it, Eddie Vedder's the last one left, right? Chris Cornell and Kurt Cobain, Right there. There's so much heaviness when you don't get sunlight hitting your photoreceptors, making vitamin D in your brain. Doesn't even show up in the bloodstream. It's up here. Right. So we know exercise is great. We know green exercise is even better.

Green exercise.

Green exercise. Like, it's awesome going to your gym. But when you do a boot camp and the base of Chautauqua in Boulder in the sunlight staring at the mountains and the little squirrel jumps by you as you're doing some burpees, it's like, you know, natural high on natural high on natural high.

Right. Yeah.

Right. So we'll finish that circle real quick on the Cannabidiol also enhances GABA-A, which is your cool, calm, collected, incapable. And, and GABA gets enough play for anxiety. It doesn't get enough play for attention deficit disorder. So when you're going squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, anxiety and ADHD are two sides of the same coin.

Really?

And they're missing the right amount of dopamine with the right amount of GABA. Right. And it's, and it's GABA's a brake pedal to say, Sit still and stay engaged with what she's saying right now. Don't interrupt, don't go squirrel, don't go bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop, right? So it's anxiety and ADD are in bed together.

Okay, so are we causing that with this thing? I mean, in our society, you know, I watch— I try to— I watch other people and then I kind I kind of check in like, do I do that? You know, and I know I do because if I walk into a room and I'm like, where did I put my phone? Where did I put my phone? Like I'm the only human in this house. Who did it? You know, it's like alarming. I can't find it.

Yeah. Well, what I think is like you're one of my heroes for living a full throttle lifestyle, you know, but you do a lot of things for a lot of people, right? You're a support system for a lot of people. You do podcasts, you teach us better ways of training, you teach us about nutrition. You're putting life in fifth gear often. And when you do that, that's yang, and it's an important part of life. But when it's too much, I mean, we're kindred spirits on this. There's a level of too many people needing you, asking questions, responding, where you're going to trigger. Attention deficit. And that predates the cell phone. The cell phone is just an accelerator, right, to that. Now, I will say the scariest thing about, um, my friend Michael Vladek, another Boulderite and an old CU buddy of mine, he does a lot on teens and tech. Um, we had him on our podcast. He's so good with it. And we were on the chairlift at Eldora when I was getting ready to give my older son his first phone. And I said, all right, bro, give me the facts, Jack. What's going on here? And he looks at me, goes, you're handing your son the devil. Are you ready to give your son the devil? And he calls the cell phone the devil stick, right? And he's not like some kind of hyper-religious guy. He's like, that is the devil. And you're giving it to a teenager or a 12-year-old. Right. And the scariest thing we know about cell phones is that your brain doesn't fully grow and your nerve cells get pruned when you're growing up with that distractibility. So, so you and I are lucky. What's different about you and I than my kids?

Yeah. Yeah.

We grew up developing our brains without the phone. We got like the best.

Right?

Because we went down those metal slides that burned our butt cheeks and drank out of rusty hoses. Drank out of rusty hoses and did keg stands and, you know, would powder ski under the moonlight. And then we got phones, right?

Yeah.

And then we got phones. And so the biggest scary thing is in brain development. It literally prunes brains. So what we're saying is our children will have less brain volume, less brain mass at 25 years old than we all did. Right.

That is a scary thing. Yeah.

Yes. So let's talk about AI while we're there. There's so many pros and cons to AI, and I would say it's like 90/10. Cons to 10% pros, right? But being able to put in scientific algorithms—

I think maybe you should say that again.

Yeah, yeah. So there's about 10% pros to AI, and that's what everyone celebrates, and there's about 90% con. And the 10% pro, like a real example, is you can run an AI to run to like repurpose chemo drugs to fit a cancer better with less side effects or create a new chemo drug at a pace that we would never do in 1 to 2 years. It'll take us 20 to 30 years to come up with the right idea. And the supercomputing can do that quicker. That's a pro, right? One of my biggest cons is you get high off creation. So when you write a song on a guitar, when you finish your taxes.

Yeah.

When you figure out how to do a proper hip hinge, those create endorphins, right? When you help someone at the DMV get their first driver's license, you get high off that whether you realize it or not. Right. And in the data on professionalism, the number one data point for job satisfaction is you're good at your job. It is more important than you believe in the work, you got a great boss, you like your coworkers, all those matter too. But if we start giving the bots all of the creation, all the fiddling, all the fuddling, all the creation of that slide deck, that I'm going to present to doctors, right? If I'm not doing that anymore, I'm losing endorphins.

Yeah. Wow.

So Elon and all the tech guys talk about, like, well, there will be this wonderful place where we get universal income and are we all just painting canvases and writing kumbaya songs and lifting together all day long? Like, maybe, right? But as much as I don't like to admit it, I get high off the riddle of figuring out a chronic complex mystery illness. And even though I'd rather chew broken glass and watch Netflix than read one more medical paper at midnight, when that medical paper unlocks a secret that I can now help someone solve, resolve, and graduate a healthcare issue. It's very anti-anxiety. It's very anti-depressing, right? When you watch somebody who's 56 years old and she's never lifted weights a day in her life, and 3 months later, they do the perfect deadlift. And they go, how did I not know about this in college when I was studying engineering in a dark room? For 18 hours a day, you know, and now they know how to move their body. It's, it's joy, right?

I gotta tell you though, hold on, time out. So I don't think any, any woman at 56 here is gonna say, how did I not know about this deadlift? But she might say, I am so grateful I can reach over the side of that crib and pick up that 25-pound one-year-old, and I didn't think I'd ever be able to do that. That's where it shows up.

That's right.

Yeah, that's—

and I think that's what you're one of the queens of, is functional fitness. Why are we doing this?

Yeah, right.

And again, going to kickboxing tonight, I'll enjoy the first month. It's like intimidating. You're like, wow. And then you get a combination right. And then someone invites you over for a barbecue. And then I didn't think I'd be making new friends in my 50s, you know? And then so the whole thing has so many tentacles of life improvement, right? And, and so with the, with today's topic, with mood and anxiety, right, if someone has been sidelined for a while, right, they have fibro or they're just out of shape or, you know, maybe they're a single mom of 3 kids. They got those people off and now they got grandbabies that need help and they always come last. Their workouts come last, their meal prep comes last, their sleep comes last.

Right.

And they're just jacked up on 2 liters of Mountain Dew and whatever's in the fridge. Right. You know, it's going to— they're going to implode in their biochemistry and their brain chemistry. They're going to— those endorphins are going to start to go down. Right? This is one of the places we're going to kick off with Cannabidiol for things like anxiety and depression. It's going to enhance your 5-HT1 serotonin binding for enthusiasm, your dopamine 2 for ambition and drive, but also hopefulness. The number one theme in a suicide note is hopelessness, right? When you start vibing a friend or a family member who has that chronic hopelessness, you need to intervene. You need to say, hey, we got to go out for dinner and just talk about where you're at. I love you with all my heart, and I'm just nervous. Let's, let's go for an evening walk together. This is where the number one, the number one best therapy for trauma in all the literature. It's all great. Grief counseling, EMDR, grief groups, DNRS. Primal Trust are all great, is a dog.

Hmm. Really?

Number one. Number one. And you got to think about how many things you got to take care of something else and get out of your grief. You got to go for walkies. You have unconditional love sitting on your lap and staring you in the eyes. Right. And on and on and on. So then the third one is the GABA-A, right? That is the literal cool, calm, and collected molecule. But then cannabidiol recycles OEA and PEA, those fat-derived endogenous cannabinoids. So you got to clean up your diet, get the seed oils out, get the healthy oils in. But you'll, you'll start making some endogenous cannabinoids off those fats. But then you'll recycle those endogenous cannabinoids with cannabidiol. And then you also recycle anandamide, the bliss molecule. So, so when it comes to are you getting your ass kicked by life right now? Are you getting steamrolled? Are you a shell of yourself and feeling just depressed and anxious and you're just paralyzed by overwhelm, right? That's where I bring in Cannabidiol, pure CBD isolate. And this happened to me unknowingly with COVID So during COVID nobody had testing yet. Boulder Community Hospital didn't have it yet. So Blanchette at Boulder Internal Medicine, my friend who taught me everything about heart scanning and preventing heart attack and stroke, he put up $10K to get some testing. I put up my own $10K to get a different testing. He got the nasal for gene. I got the antibody test for finger stick antibodies, and we validated off each other's. He had a positive, and I confirmed with my test, and we started doing parking lot testing. My, my practice partner of 10 years, Genevieve, and I were in Tyvek suits with, um, 3M cartridge masks with patients driving through the parking lot like a McDonald's drive-through.

Oh my gosh.

Testing them to see if they had COVID or not. The point being, I was reading 10 medical papers a night trying to figure out, is this the new HIV, or is this just a really stiff virus that is, that is killing people through self-made nonsensical inflammation? And, and what I mean by that is COVID is a gnarly virus, but COVID doesn't kill people. The self-made exaggerated inflammatory responses to the COVID kills you, right? And this is why you could have Uncle Frank who's smoking eating 2 packs of Marlboro Reds and drinking a 6-pack of PBR, being like, why are you all shutting down the economy and wearing masks? It's a baby virus. And then a 40-year-old CrossFitter in Boulder that spends all their money at Whole Foods and at their physical therapist is on a ventilator at BCH. It's the exact same virus, 2 wildly different immune responses. Right. So early, we had 3,000 patient contacts in zero COVID death during COVID And we're freaking proud of that. America has 6% of the world's— 4% to 6% of the world's population, 16% of the COVID death. And it's because we're an inflamed bunch. We have untreated apnea. We have standard American diet. We have living in shoddy construction practices. We're sedentary. We don't get enough sunlight. We don't get enough community, you know, and on and on. And we take just antibiotics for everything without reestablishing our good gut biome, blah blah blah, right? So we just popped off with this virus, but the virus is stealth and just wants to replicate itself and then jump to the next host. It's the overzealous exaggerated immune responses that create pulmonary fibrosis, clot blood, stroke people out. So if you control the inflammation, no one dies, right? And that's what ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and steroids were doing in the conventional model. In our world, it was glutathione and cannabidiol and resveratrol, treat the apnea and work out moderately, vitamin D3, zinc, vitamin C to correction, and so on and so forth, you know. But the point being is We're an inflamed bunch. We need to go inflammation hunting, inflammation killing. You need to remove those things we've talked about, like get your overnight oximeter to see if you're apneic or not. Straighten out your blood sugar. Get the seed oils out of your cupboards and your salad dressing. Get the olive oil in. Get the wild salmon in. Get your body moving, right? But during— if, if, if 2026 Eric could tell 20, uh, 20, Eric, it's going to be okay. Just manage the inflammation like you do every other time and no one will die. I wouldn't have been so overwhelmed. So I started taking 2 dropperfuls of the Blue Sky Original. That's the CBD isolate, morning and evening. It's 150 milligrams twice a day. And that's my high dose for anxiety. It's my highest dose for anxiety. And I got that idea off this human study where they put, uh, two people who hate to public speak into public speaking situation, and they gave one the, uh, cannabidiol oil and the other the dummy oil, and they didn't know which they were taking. And the people who were on the CBD at 300 milligrams, the 150 twice a day, had statistically significant reduction anxiety and delivered their speech better. Not only were they less anxious, but they were a better orator. Right. And they could—

So we can decrease the anxiety but still keep the sharpness.

That's right. And that's where hemp, whole spectrum hemp, is sedating. It has terpenes in there, a similar medicinal constituent like lavender, and it can sedate you. And sometimes that's That's— I'm so glad you said that, because sometimes that's a good thing, right? You're looking for sedation. I'm looking for an uplifting productivity molecule.

Exactly. Yeah.

That, that, that, that reduces my anxiety. Right. And then, and, and, and that's what I was doing. So in the middle of COVID this study comes out on these Brazilian frontline workers who are in there with the patients dying in the ICU, and it was nurses and doctors, and they were given an exercise DVD and therapy. Yes, I said DVD. This is Brazil in 2022. Or they got the exercise DVD therapy and 300mg of cannabidiol isolate. Now, I was doing this as a healthcare worker trying to figure out how to make sure my complex chronic mystery illness patients who already are lupus patients and SIRS patients and concussion patients, they're already inflamed, right? How do we make sure they don't die, right? So they give these frontline workers the 300 milligrams of CBD, and they have a statistically significant decrease in depression, anxiety, emotional exhaustion, and worker burnout.

Wow, huge, huge.

So, you know, we'll do, um, high-dose cannabidiol for a mom who has 3 kids under the age of 7, right? Um, we're not sure on cannabidiol and breastfeeding yet. I cannot make a case to say it's dangerous, but you just don't play with pregnancy and breastfeeding unless you have a good clinical trial. But let's say she's got 3 kids, 7, 5, and 2, right? And she just whooped, and she doesn't get her sleep, and this one gets the earache, and then the next one uric and the next one gets uric. This is the time to apply higher dosing of CBD isolate. Sweet.

Okay, so talk to me about— you got somebody listening who's now like, okay, I've identified with something you've said here. So in the few minutes that we have left, I don't want to leave somebody hanging if they— because I think that's where someone will stall. Like, yeah, this, this sounds good, but I don't know where do I begin? Like, what exactly, what do I want to look at and do first and how much or how often?

Yep. Yeah, that's great. So first of all, concomitantly look at the basics. Be like, oh, I'm drinking 4 quad shot lattes a day. Okay, let's do the 50% rule. And cut that in half to start. I'm drinking 3 glasses of wine tonight. Let's do 1.5 to start. Just, just 50% rule, right? Then, um, Blue Sky has the Sky gels, which you can get sample packs of, and they're 30 milligrams of CBD per gel cap. Um, you would take, uh, you would literally chew up 2 of those, and I call that the, the original SkyGel challenge. And you just chew up and you wait 5 to 10 minutes, and if you feel this kind of locked-in calm, okay, let's get those tax papers done. Um, that's your dose. If you don't feel much about 10 minutes later, you go up to chew up 2 more, and that's 120 milligrams of cannabidiol.. And if you don't, that is usually where people are going to feel something, right? If you don't feel that, you can go all the way up to 2 more, but you start getting into the 150 to 200 milligrams of cannabidiol and not feel anything, it's not your, it's not your jam. About 9 out of 10 people are going to feel a noticeable shift in attitude that goes to capability. Gratitude, cool, calm, collected, lighthearted, and capable. Right. And we had this woman who was in a real grumpy mood when I was first doing the research, and she was like, blah, this sucks and that sucks. I said, try 2 of these. And she's like the biggest cynic. That's what you want. You want to test your product on the biggest cynic, the biggest naysayer. Right. And I was doing a joint visit with Genevieve, and I gave her 2 capsules. And then literally 7 minutes later, she interrupts herself. She goes, can that work that quickly? Right? This is the cynic, right? This isn't like the person that's very easily inspired, right, by placebo. And, and yes, Cannabidiol should work that quickly. It should work within minutes to hours.

Okay.

So that's the SkyGel challenge. It's much more cost effective. Cost-effective to get the tincture because you don't have to pay for encapsulation. So if your, um, your dose is 2 Sky Gels, which is 60 milligrams in the morning— it's not, it's not a sedative, it's an uplifting, calming productivity molecule— then you would do 1 dropper full of the CBD isolate.

Okay.

Um, in the morning. And then if you're feeling a little flat in the afternoon, you do one more dropperful in the afternoon. So the dose is about 1 to 2 SkyGels, or one dropperful in the morning, 1 to 2 SkyGels in the afternoon. If you already feel great and you just want to feel a little bit more as you're going off to CrossFit, um, one SkyGel, and it has some anti-inflammatory as part of a pre-workout.

Cool, very cool. Yeah, that was super helpful. Amazing. And I think there's just so much going on in the world. I mean, first of all, you layer in— you're female, your brain thinks about 14 things at the same time all day, whether you try it or not. And then you're going through hormonal changes and menopause, and there's a lot coming out of midlife woman. But then we're— there's this society that's going on right there. There's a lot of stuff, you know, to deal with. And I think, you know, everybody's looking for a little like, how do I feel better? But we're looking for an escape. And I think sometimes we land not quite in the right space when we're seeking that escape, and it ends up making us feel worse, not better, unknowingly. I mean, we're, we're of course not trying to do that.

So I want to say two things about that. When I take Cannabidiol, my version of anti-anxiety is my brain goes, it's going to be okay. I can't explain it. Like, I come out of this wind-up panicky into a capable. It doesn't mean that the problem went away. It means that it's going to be okay. And I think whether you have kids or not, when you're female, right? And I see this with my wife, you give a shit about the world. You care about things, right? Who takes care of the aging parents? 75% of the time it's daughters. Right? Then one quarter of the time, Booby shows up and fixes an alarm clock and he's the hero for 3 months, right? It's like my mom took care of my oma. My uncle was nice, but he would show up once a month and then he was like the hero, right? No, as a generalization, women care about the world. And when everything's in chaos and our kids are getting addicted to phones, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Ah, it's okay. And it puts you in a space and a pace where now you can start moving through what needs to be done with your day. Right. And then for some people, men and women, it opens up the door for maybe I could check out that kickboxing class. Maybe I could be athletic someday. Maybe I should start playing the flute. I've been thinking about playing the flute flute for 20 years. I'm just going to say, screw it, I'm going to get a flute lesson. Right. And you just don't care as much about the outcome. You care about the capacity to try something, to go for it and not talk yourself out of or talk yourself into all that is wrong in the world. Right. It is an intense time, but it's still safest time to be alive on this warring earth that we call life, you know. And we don't want to wake up one day and go, I spent my whole life being anxious instead of being present.

Absolutely. Such a strong ending. Dr. D, thank you so much for being here. This was a fantastic conversation.

It's truly my honor. Always. Thank you.

The information shared on Flipping 50 the Stronger Way is for educational and informational purposes only and not intended as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult your physician or qualified healthcare provider before beginning any exercise program, making changes to your diet, or adjusting any medications or supplements. Individual results may vary. Debra Atkinson and Flipping 50 are not responsible for any injury or adverse outcomes resulting from information presented on this podcast.