Mothers and Daughters Hormones and Health Literacy

Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I have a little sleep secret I want to tell you about. Look, sleep is crucial for your fitness, but it's crucial for just plain old everyday life and function. And I find I sleep great unless I have a migraine. And I've had more than my fair share since perimenopause all the way through postmenopause. My secret weapon was Blue Sky CBD sleep gels. Each gel contains 25mg of CBD and 25mg CBN for deep restorative sleep. Something about it helps to reduce inflammation, which I believe for me was key in helping me get to sleep. But the biggest thing is so many of the over-the-counter solutions, whether for sleep or migraines, can ruin gut health, and liver health. Neither one of those did I want to be problematic for me. So this option is recommended by healthcare providers worldwide and backed by thousands of happy customers, many of whom come from our Flipping 50 community. There is zero THC, so it's non-habit-forming. It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at My Favorites. What are you waiting for? Good night. This episode is for mothers and their daughters, so it's definitely not one to keep to yourself. How rude. There are numerous resources mentioned within this episode as well. Those include references to Judy Blume's "Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret," Flow, that is the wisdom of my What, When, and Why to Exercise for Women 40 and Over guest expert, Alissa Vitti, and several other books are mentioned and dropped throughout this episode that both you and/or your daughter will appreciate. And for some of you, this also may be teen granddaughters, so you're going to be prepared. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50, where I address your top struggles and concerns, and I share what to eat, how to move, and how to change your mindset sometimes about what to eat and how to move so you can have the energy and the vitality that you want, need, and deserve in this second and better half. So my guests today literally are mother-daughter duo Candice Birch and her daughter Jess Sushin. And you know what, I should have asked on the pronunciation of that before I let them go. Candice Burt is a hormone health educator with a master's in health education and over 30 years of experience in the field. So she is a pioneer. In 2017, she founded Your Hormone Balance as a consulting practice and was later joined by her younger daughter, Ryan Burt, to expand Your Hormone Balance reach to women and men around the world. Candice's background includes working as a health ed— or sorry, health editor, writer, and investigative journalist in London, leading educational patient and provider initiatives for ZRT Hormone Laboratory as their director of education for 12 years, as well as spearheading Body in Balance, a hormone testing and rebalancing weight loss program at Metabolic Research Center, which is a nationwide weight loss company. She also hosts the Women Talking Frankly podcast with her friend, naturalistic practitioner Kyle McEvoy. But I have to tell you, I'm so distracted because if you think like I think, well, probably we're both in trouble. But women talking frankly, the abbreviation is WTF. I don't know, but I think that's so funny. Do you think that's funny? All right. Her daughter Jess is a board-certified holistic health coach via the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and she takes a 360 approach to wellness, supporting clients in sustainable weight loss strategies, mindset tools, and symptom relief via cycle syncing, lifestyle strategies, and smart supplementation. As a recovered yo-yo dieting expert with her own 45-pound weight loss story, she understands the importance of a balanced approach free from restriction and fad diets. She's been coaching clients in partnership with Your Hormone Balance for the last 5 years and also offers one-on-one coaching through her custom app. She hosts the Solo 2.0 podcast alongside her sister your Hormone Balance co-founder Ryan Birch. This is really a family affair, and I think you're gonna love it, especially if you want to dig into the nuances of how do you talk to daughters about hormones, what you're experiencing, what they may be experiencing, how everyone is affected, and how everyone could be better supported once there's more understanding. Let's dive in. Candice and Jess, thank you so much for both being here.

Oh, happy to be here. Yeah, we're excited.

I believe in 11 years and 2 podcasts and lots and lots of interviews, this is the first time I've ever interviewed a mother-daughter duo. So, oh yeah, so this will be super fun. All right, so first of all, I would love to just dive into number 1, um, How is it that you both landed in being a hormone health educator and holistic health coach? And Candice, I'll have you go first, given your mom— you led the way potentially. She, she saw what you were doing or something about it appealed. But tell me, tell me how you got here instead of doing any number of things you could have chosen as a career.

Mm-hmm. I mean, as well, again, thanks for having me and my— and, and Jess on together, because I think We are sort of the dynamic duo, and I, I really find that being on podcasts together, we've learned, we've learned something about each other and things that we have, have thought and done in life that maybe we hadn't actually shared until it came up on a podcast. That's happened.

So interesting.

Yeah, it is, you know, sort of, it's sort of fun in that way. It's a revelation. But for me, the getting into the hormone specializing in hormone testing and helping women rebalance was a journey that started with my own perimenopause. And, you know, as we've discussed prior to this recording, you know that I had my— I'm one of those baby boomer people that waited quite a while before I had children. I was so hesitant. And then there was a point at which I started feeling like my life was somehow empty and I needed something. And I realized I was feeling what they call broody in England, and that was around age 37 or 36. And, and so I became pregnant and had Jessie at 37, and then I had my second daughter at the age of 41. So I waited quite a while to become a mom, and I think what propelled me into this world of hormone hormonal balance and, and longevity and all of that was that when I went into the perimenopause, I had two young girls. I had two young daughters. In fact, Ryan, my little one, was about 3 or 4 when I first started having the worst of my mood swings and, and the hot flashes. So I would say I had a hot flash, it seemed like, every 20 minutes and a mood swing in between. And there was that day that Bryan was looking at me, this little girl with big blue eyes and tears standing in her eyes. And she was just, I could see that she was frightened of me and that she was almost like she didn't recognize me. I was the mean mommy. And I realized with the start that this was a hormonal thing that was going on. I could not nurse it with more caffeine. And yelling at everybody to, if they were cold, to, you know, just put on a sweater because I was hot and all the windows were going to be open even if it was the dead of winter. You know, I was just kind of inflicting my, my Jekyll and Hyde personality on everybody, not knowing, you know, what to do about it. And then I sort of sat up and took notice and thought, hey, you're a health educator, do the research. This is obviously hormones. So that started a whole fascination with how do I turn my health education work, which was primarily, you know, for 20 years I'd been writing, I was a journalist, I've been working in the field of let's stay healthy. How do we maintain health and prevent disease? Here, all of a sudden we're talking about 150 different symptoms that all deal— have to do with hormonal changes. And I was right smack in the middle of it. So I took action. I wrote to the author of one of the first books on menopause that was out there, by Dr. John R. Lee, called "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause." I actually wrote to him and said, "I'm a health educator, I'm 48 years old, I'm scaring my children, I need help. I need to sit with someone and learn what's going on with the hormones. Please, can I sit at your knee?" And he wrote back and said, that he actually wasn't training anyone, but that there was a very prestigious lab, laboratory testing hormones in saliva in Portland, Oregon, where I lived, and that I should call this breast cancer researcher biochemist that was heading up this business, this, you know, making waves in the industry and making change in the world of women's reproductive health, and I should call him up. Talk to him. And that's what I did, Dr. David Zava. And I was hired on the spot to become his director of education because I had a lot of experience in the world of, you know, health, health and wellness. But now it was my chance when he hired me to turn this around and, you know, and focus on health, wellness and longevity in relation to hormones. So he was testing thousands of people already at this point in time, 20 years later. His lab has tested millions of people around the world, actually. But that catapulted me, that drive to find out what was going on with me and to find answers helped me realize that there was such a thing as a hormone imbalance, that you could test your hormone levels, and that you could take action to turn things around and to rebalance and relieve symptoms, but also prevent provide yourself with the protection, the protective benefits that hormones have to offer. So that's become my focus and I'm still doing it. I'm not an executive in a hormone testing lab anymore. I now have founded Your Hormone Balance and the daughters and I, and Jess can talk about that evolution 'cause I can assure you they used to run screaming from the room every time the word hormones came up. So, so there's, there is a story there, but we, we are now, you know, this is a one-on-one, very, very personalized, individualized service that we offer women who need to talk, who need to, you know, understand what's going on. So we are educators, we're educators, we're counselors, we're coaches, and we're trying to make a difference in, in women's lives. Especially women in, well, in all stages, you know, pre, peri, and post-menopause.

Very cool. So let me ask you this. So generally, when somebody is going to test their hormones, I, I always ask this question first. Let's talk about what you're going to do with those results. So the presumption is if they're going to test, they want to or are interested in replacement. So am I guessing that you were, you were absolutely like, ready, I'm Uncle, tell me what to do? I'm testing so that I can replace?

Um, in many cases, yes, especially if women are menopausal and/or have had a hysterectomy or have a pronounced imbalance because, let's say, they've been on birth control for years and years and years and can't get their periods back, and now they are wanting to, to have a child after, you know, maybe 15 years on the pill. There are all kinds of women that do need to use a bit of hormone replacement, or as I like to say, replenishment. But of course, we don't prescribe. We, we put people in the direction of bioidentical plant-based hormones that, that we have, um, we have identified as the safest solution. And we've got the science— the science is on our side that plant-based is the way to go. That's the whole focus functional medicine now, right? And testing is key because whether it's bioidentical or any hormone, one needs to test to find out how that's affecting, um, you know, our, our endocrine system, right?

So you, you test a wide gamut. So our audience here is on average, and there are outliers, but 45 to 70-ish. But you're actually working with young women who may want to and can't get pregnant as well.

Yeah.

Got it. Okay. That helps. Okay.

And that's thanks to Jess and Ryan. And that sort of is an entree for Jess to tell you how they got involved. But they realized very wisely, "Mom, it's not just about menopause. What about us? You know, what about the younger women that have menopause?" Absolutely. So therein lies their entree into something that I thought they would never want to do. Never ever. Yeah.

And, and so at what point did you— do you think anyway, because obviously the experience you have in the looking glass is from your lens and that's the only experience you've ever had as mom talking to daughters— do you think though, relatively, were you more open, more forthcoming you spoke about it much more, do you think, than compared to friends, moms and daughters in that relationship? So they knew what to expect, say, getting their period?

I hope so. I mean, I always say, I mean, I think that I was pretty well steeped in it by the time Jessie, I remember when she turned 13. No, I turned 50. The day I had my 50th birthday, Jessie got her period. And she was— how old were you then? You were 13.

Wasn't that in Hawaii? I remember being in Hawaii.

Wherever it was, I just remember the symbolism of it. Here I am turning 50, the classic average age that women move into menopause.

I was 12. Yeah. I think I was 12.

So I'm sure we had quite, you know, several conversations and I was always talking about hormones anyway because every day, but I mean, how do you remember it, Jess? I do remember that I had, as a parent, I had taken a course when we lived in England called Parent Link. And one of the aspects of Parent Link was about helping your children or how did they put it, becoming known to your children. Like waiting for the teachable moment when things are relevant and it's all happening to them and then you can share how it went with you. And I remember that was sort of my approach to my daughters. When it all became very relevant and it made sense, then we had the conversation. But I think, I'm sure we talked about, you know, the fact that you were gonna get a period and all of that. It wasn't like one day they went to school and had, had an accident and didn't know what was happening.

No, I remember that we were in Hawaii and I remember that 'cause we were on a family vacation and I remember I got my period in the bathroom at this resort that we were looking at and I was like, "Oh my gosh, Mom," 'cause you were in the bathroom as well. And I was like, "I got my period." And I asked you to come in and help me 'cause I didn't know what to do. And I just remember not, I definitely felt a little bit embarrassed that it happened while I was in my bathing suit on vacation, but I do remember not being nervous to ask you for help and wanting you to actually come in the stall with me. And I remember that you were really comforting and helped me just put my mind at ease and know what to do. And I never, I don't know, I think a lot of, of unfortunately young girls are kind of afraid of their period. And, you know, it's almost this shameful thing when you get your period that, you know, you should hide it from people. And even just memories of, you know, having a tampon when you're in class and you have to go use the restroom to change your tampon and like kind of hiding it. And it would be like the worst possible thing if it fell and someone saw it. And so I think just kind of, it is important to change the narrative around it of making it this empowering kind of rite of passage that you go through as a woman versus this thing to be dreaded or that's embarrassing or gross. And I just know that, Mom, you made us not feel like it was embarrassing or gross and that it was okay to talk about and to ask questions. And I actually remember at a very young age, somehow me walking in and seeing that you had a period and I was like, oh my God, what is this? And you got very upset. Are you okay?

Blood. Oh my God.

And yeah, I don't know how old I was. I remember I was very young, though. I still remember that. And you were like, it's okay, it's very normal. And you were explaining to me what was happening. And I still have that memory because I remember being so shocked and afraid. But you really putting our minds at ease. And we've always been a very open family. Talk about everything.

And, um, you know, and we lived in a very small house with one bathroom, so yeah, it wasn't much of hiding anything, so that helped actually.

I say, oh wow, and I realized, gosh, we did too.

So, oh yeah, yeah, a lot of people did.

I think I spent so much time in there as a teenager, I wonder how anybody else ever, ever got in, right?

Yeah, yeah, that was, that was like the one thing we had a lot of fights about was who was using the bathroom for too long.

Okay, so got a question. This is just humorous, I think, but in this conversation, when I hear about girls getting their periods and recalling what it was like in that moment, because I think every woman recalls it exactly where it is. So Candace, did you read Judy Blume books like Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret? Of course, it just came out as a movie. And then Jess, I'm going to ask you the same thing. Is that book still floating around and is it still relative, or was it?

I've never heard of it.

Really? Okay. Oh my gosh, you think that's terrible.

I shouldn't say that.

Oh no.

Okay. Yeah, I'll look into it right away.

No, you know, I think I have to say part of the reason might be that we had been living in England for— the girls were born in England and we were there till Jessie was about 10. And it wasn't a book that I recall coming across as a mom with young girls. I don't know how that was a major missing, but I'm afraid I can't. But tell us more. I know that it just was a pivotal, probably one of the first books ever that discussed that and made it, helped moms and daughters have that discussion.

Yes. And it opened it up. So Candace, you as a child, you as a young girl didn't read it?

No.

Oh, okay.

No.

Okay.

Well, how long has it been around? I mean, I think Judy Blume is probably— Forever.

Yeah, so I'm 59. It was already out there before I was of age to get mine, you know, so we were reading it feeling like it was really a dirty book, you know, I'm sure. Like we weren't supposed to read it yet because it was like, can you believe this, you know, kind of thing.

What was the premise of it? Was it teaching?

Literally, she is, uh, I think in 7th grade or whatever. She's moved to a new place. So she's the outlier, and, you know, the other girls are getting their training bras and getting their periods, and she's like the last one, but she's praying out loud. And it's, 'Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret.' And so it's kind of a conversation with her, with her praying out loud and asking, 'Could you please make it happen?' You know, 'Could you just hurry this up? Could you please make it happen?' And Judy Blume covered a lot of topics like that in her books and even did some for adult women, actually, later, wifey, you know. And she really— subjects that were taboo, she tackled.

So one of the first to tackle them. So she joins the pantheon of— I mean, there were only a few. There was Gail Sheehy, who, who wrote— who started talking about menopause in her book The Silent The Silent Passage. And then who was the— and I'm just thinking, I just went out of my head who was the other. Oh, there's a great book out now that I recommend, and I'm happy to know about Judy Blume finally getting a film out and, you know, having this be up front and center, this conversation, which is not as taboo thanks to her. But there's a book out called The Teenage Hormone Takeover: A Mom's Guide. So that's written by Nisha Jackson. And I think as much as girls who are about to— who need to know what to expect in terms of periods and the whole premenopause kicking in, just as much, just as crucial is the need of moms to understand how to communicate with their daughters as this happens. You know, that little girl that was holding your hand and just wanted to be around mommy and is now slamming the bedroom door in your face when she, you know, it can be. Funny games, yeah. Yeah, and refusing to eat at the dinner table and, you know, having all kinds of yo-yo diets going on behind your back that you can't control. So, and so much more. I mean, there are many mothers that are really concerned about their daughters who aren't getting their periods or who have horrible periods or terrible mood swings or PCOS. So yeah, anything that illuminates the conversation and helps us all understand as moms and daughters what's going on is welcome. And I'm embarrassed that we didn't know about Judy Blume. We'll have to read her now, Jess.

There is another book, and I'll probably say position-wise, this one is more, I think it's dedicated toward the woman or the young girl, either way. It's called Beautiful You. It's by Nat Kringoudis. She's out of Australia. She's a health functional doctor. I'm actually a friend of mine, but she wrote this and she also recommends— she said, I, I serve adult women and many of them could benefit from knowing a little bit more about their bodies.

So, oh God, yes.

It's like I recommend it to everyone, but it would be great for— I think she wrote it thinking that this will help a young woman what's, what's happening with all the changes going on.

Sounds like a fantastic resource.

Yeah, yeah. That's why I love— like, I work one-on-one with clients and I help a lot of them to rebalance their hormones naturally. And I have a— I work with primarily moms, and it's really cool because I've guided a lot of them in learning about Cycle Syncing, which is another great book by Elisa Vitti, and The Flow.

Yes.

Yes.

Which teaches all about the 4 phases of the menstrual cycle and understanding how your hormone levels change throughout the month. And it really—

taking that conversation to a whole new level—

gets you so much more in tune with what's actually happening and sort of how to align and adjust your life with those changes. And as I'm sort of coaching my clients who are interested in learning more about it through cycle syncing and sort of incorporating it in their own lives, it's not only giving them more understanding for their body, but it's giving them more grace for, you know, maybe when they snap at their, their kid and they're like, oh my gosh, like my mom was saying, who is this? You know, I just snapped at my kid and they didn't really do anything wrong. And, you know, I'm just— they're kind of like blaming themselves and feeling like a horrible parent. And once they start to realize there's something going on with your hormones, with my hormones, and, you know, potentially I'm in the premenstrual week and my hormone levels are dropping, but I also am dealing with a hormonal imbalance. So the swings are much more intense and severe than maybe they should be. And once they start to sync with the 4 phases of their cycle and they start to incorporate in blood sugar balancing and nutrition support and smart supplementation and potentially change their exercise, changing their exercise, their exercise.

Yep, absolutely critical.

They start to feel so much better. And several of them now have told me that they're having conversations with their daughters and even with their sons about like, hey, Mommy did not mean to snap at you. I am about to get my period, which means that Sometimes my mood is a little bit all over the place. And, you know, it's just something that, you know, I'm going through right now. And, you know, this is how you can support me kind of thing. And how can I support you? And they're having more conversations with their children, which allows their children to have a better understanding, give their parent more grace. And then also, you know, when they get to the point where they get their period, then, you know, they won't be so surprised and they'll have the tools If I may interject, I remember when I first was having those terrible hot flashes and night sweats.

So hot flashes during the day, in the middle of the meeting, in the middle of whatever's going on, and then hot night sweats at night, which keep you awake. So you are really, you know, the Wicked Witch of the West. And I was— I can talk about this later, but having, you know, I found the hormone test, I identified the imbalance of hormones that was estrogen and progesterone. I started using a topical progesterone cream during the luteal second half of my cycle, because as women get into perimenopause and ovulation becomes erratic, then we start to lose out on progesterone production, because progesterone's only made upon ovulation. Without progesterone, things go haywire.

Nothing good happens.

Estrogen gets too high, progesterone's not there to calm things down, to help you sleep, to balance estrogen, to help you get pregnant. Progesterone's like too often the forgotten hormone, is so crucial. Anyway, I started using that, just a little Goldilocks dose of progesterone to bring my levels up to, you know, physiologic range so that I could function. And Mommy became Mommy again, right? I was more normal. I was not, you know, shrieking. And it's not just snapping, I'd say shrieking.

Oh yeah, shrieks.

You know, we're not talking just, "I snapped at you." And meltdowns, like extreme meltdowns. Well, you're talking about the restaurant event?

Well, there were several of them.

There's an event?

There were several, yeah.

Okay.

While we're recording, Jess, I just wanna remind you Christmas is coming.

Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah, right.

Yeah, watch what you say. No, but I honestly, it's, you know, when you're just getting, I'm sure many mothers will relate to this or women. So you're entering your perimenopause where your hormones are like a roller coaster and your moods are following the same route and you're gaining weight and you can't sleep and you're just out of sorts and you can't remember why you walked into this room and your two tweenagers are rolling their eyes at you when you say something, that occasioned a few meltdowns. Yeah.

Totally.

The rolling the eyes. I remember bashing my glass down on the table in some restaurant and walking out of the restaurant and marching home.

And you both, you all were yelling at me down the street, "Mom, where are you going?" Well, you said that you were going to divorce dad and you were going to move out of the house and get your own apartment.

Oh, good.

And we were like, oh my gosh, you relate, ladies.

Can you relate?

Yeah. And it's funny because she and my dad have been together— gosh, how many years have you guys been together now?

Oh, about 100. 40, 40, 42, I think.

Yeah.

So speak to that too, because you are both so open, obviously, with yourself. So where did that come in? Where did Dad— like, the, the one man in the house— how did he cope and survive?

I remember, I remember the day that that happened where I marched out of the restaurant and probably said all those things Jesse said I'm saying, that he was yelling down the street at me, maybe you better get your hormones balanced before you try to help other women.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, well, we have a very patient father. She has a very patient husband, um, who's lived with wall-to-wall hormones. I mean, 3 women Yeah, but he is very, very patient, and he's also just a very loving person. I mean, I feel like he's always— he's just very thoughtful. He's always picked my mom fresh flowers on Mother's Day, made homemade cards for us. Like, he's just, you know, he's Mr. Fix-It. Yeah, he's Mr. Fix-It. He's been the handyman our whole lives. Fixing everything and anything that could go wrong. And he is just— I mean, I've heard the man raise his voice, I don't know, 2 or 3 times my whole life. He's very— he's just a very good person. And of course, he has gotten annoyed by it. And we've had to set boundaries, especially now that I am our in-house holistic health coach for our family business and my sister is our CEO. We work so closely. And now that my sister and I are actually passionate about this topic and not rolling our eyes when my mom brings it up, right, when we're around, you know, it's the 4 of us with my dad, we just naturally talk about hormones all the time because we're so passionate. We have this business together. We also obviously have gone through our own hormonal fluctuations and are constantly helping each other get to the root of different things that happen in our lives. So I feel like we are just always talking about it, and it's not boring to us. We really enjoy it. But we have to set boundaries because, A, it can't be the only thing we talk about. There's obviously other amazing things going on in our life and other struggles that we need to address. But B, my dad cannot be constantly listening to us talk about hormones. And so I think he has his own hormonal problems, right? Yeah, which he loves talking about too. So now he's in on the conversation. But we definitely have done in recent years, I would say, a much better job of when we get together. They actually live in England right now for part of the year. And so we were just there visiting, but we'll get together. We do a much better job talking about other things and kind of almost setting aside dedicated time to talk about business stuff.

But, you know, I have to say, though, that Dave has a very deep fundamental understanding of hormonal the real— the relation between hormones and our mental, physical, emotional health. I mean, he's seen what happens when you're not in balance. He has experienced his own hormonal issues because obvious— and, and we talked with men too, because men, although they, they think that they are trying to help their, their, their wives as they get— or their partners as they go into hormonal transitions. Men also have their very own andropause, and, you know, their hormones don't as dramatically drop, but they definitely sort of go through a slow slide. And there's a definite downswing or a downsizing of enthusiasm and energy and strength and libido and all those, those same things that women experience, men experience at a different, you know, to a different degree because we, you know, we sexes share all the same hormones but in different amounts. So, you know, at this point, he, like many men who are symptomatic but want to ignore it, he's much more aware that these are symptoms of imbalance. They're not just me getting old, you know. Yeah, he understands that.

And also, it's really cool that you guys— I feel like you guys have always had such open, honest conversations about everything, and I don't think that he's ever thought that a conversation around hormones was like, oh, you're, you know, I don't know. I think there is, there's this stigma. And I do hear a lot of men still saying like, oh, are you PMSing? Or like, oh, she's in, you know, my wife is in menopause. And it's like, get me out of here, that kind of thing. And I feel like he's just always been very understanding. And I mean, I don't think a lot of daughters can say that they just like freely talk about periods and hormones in front of their dad. And he's actually interested.

I think he's understanding because he understands. And that's back to the importance of education. This is not, this conversation about hormones and the mood swings and the, PMS has 150 different symptoms that range from mood swings to severe migraines and infertility and everything in between. This is serious business and understanding and becoming aware and having the knowledge is a real gift so that we can help each other. Through this, through these different stages. And men are certainly part of that partnership. I remember when I used to be doing a lot of lecturing around the country, these men would come with their partners to lectures thinking that they were there to help her. But I had a few slides for them just to talk about what was going on with them. And they would often seem, you know, rather startled about the fact that Guess what? You guys have— you experience hormonal changes too. And especially with partners, like my husband and I are the same age. We're just a year apart. So we've been going through this together. It's all part of the aging process. Anyway, that's, you know, it's a broad conversation.

Well, I also think— sorry, I just— one other thing I wanted to say about that is I am trying to change the conversation 2, and I need to do a better job about circling back to this on Instagram because I used to talk about it a lot on Instagram, but is educating the men in our lives. I mean, I'm in the reproductive years still, so I talk a lot about, like I said, cycle syncing, but having the men in your life, your boyfriend, your husband, whoever, understand also the different phases of the menstrual cycle. I've quizzed my husband on it. I'm like, okay, what is going— what is the phase the only phase that I can get pregnant? And he's like, ovulatory. And I'm like, okay, great. What's the phase where, you know, I'm slowing down a little bit and high-intensity exercise isn't as conducive? He's like, luteal phase. And so, you know, I've taught him and I've also made it fun in the sense that we'll do things like if we're planning, I don't know, like a wine tasting trip or something like that, we'll actually look at the calendar and try to align it with a phase of my cycle that's more conducive to, yeah, being— having a little bit more wine, which is, you know, not obviously hormonally supportive. But there's certain phases of the cycle where it's going to be, you know, better. Your body can handle that stress a little bit better than other times. There's also, you know, phases like the follicular and the ovulatory phase. You're more resilient to stress. And so you know, maybe not getting as much sleep, having a little bit of alcohol, those kind of things your body can bounce back from quicker. Versus if I were to travel in my premenstrual week and maybe I went out of the country, those time changes, that traveling, that eating more sugar, having more alcohol is going to affect me a lot more than it would if I planned a trip during the follicular ovulatory phases. So we'll do stuff like that. Or, you know, I can now say to him like, babe, I'm you know, I'm having a really bad headache, I'm about to get my period, like, I just really am not up for a date night out. And he'll be like, oh, okay, yeah, totally, we can, you know, do something at home. So I think it gives not only me a better understanding for my own body and to be able to tune in better with my unique needs, but also gives him an idea for how he can not only support me, but if he understands what I'm going through, then we just have a deeper connection and it benefits him in turn as well.

Very cool. And when was it, Jess? I mean, did you always know growing up this was your career direction, or did this evolve?

Oh my gosh, no. So like my mom said, we used to always roll our eyes and, you know, she talked about hormones a lot. And so especially when we were when I was a teenager and I definitely went through that phase of, like she said, not wanting to be like texting under the table at dinner, not wanting to be home, wanting to be out. I was a little bit boy crazy. And, you know, I would have these mood swings and she would try to bring it back to hormones like, oh, you know, sounds like your hormones are, you know, maybe are you about to get your period or, you know, are your vitamin D levels low because that can impact your mood and not in a, in a condescending way, but in a way where she was always just trying to help. And I just found it uninteresting and I didn't want to talk about it. And so that this definitely wasn't a career path that I thought about. I was actually really passionate about event planning and I've always been a planner. So my dream was to become like a big, big event planner. And I did go into that industry for some time and then I worked in marketing. And it actually was as a result of having these extremely stressful jobs coupled with 12 years of yo-yo dieting and orthorexic behavior that I almost just— I hit this low point of— I— my hormones were all out of whack. I got on hormonal birth control and was really afraid to come off of it, even though my mom was urging me to find a non-hormonal alternative. So I stayed on it for years. As a result, I wasn't— I didn't have a natural cycle anymore. I had really low energy levels. I started developing severe debilitating migraine headaches. I was always on or off some fad diet, and I really struggled maintaining weight loss no matter what I tried. I lost and gained 45 pounds multiple times. I've since maintained that 45-pound weight loss for 7 years, but I really just hit this low point and I kind of just channeled my mom and, you know, I tried all these different things to try to get relief and none of it was working. So I said, you know what, I just need to go back to my roots. I need to ask my mom for help and I need to try transitioning off hormonal birth control. And so she was working for ZRT, which is the hormone testing lab that we use for our, our saliva testing now. And she was like, okay, great, let's test your hormone levels. So we tested my hormone levels in saliva. We uncovered estrogen dominance and cortisol imbalances, adrenal imbalances, low testosterone. And so I, you know, she helped me kind of come off the pill. And when I came off of it, we started to add in a bunch of vitamins and minerals that get depleted when you're on the pill. We added in some bioidentical progesterone cream because my progesterone levels were really low. I had to dial back on all of the intense exercise I was doing. I was doing like 6 days a week of of basically HIIT training. I was drinking too much alcohol. I was restricting myself. So I started to add back in carbohydrates, which I feared, and I did a bunch of other things and I got my period back and my headaches started getting better and I started just feeling more energy throughout the whole day. And I just had this epiphany of I need to help other women do the same thing. And so I went back to school, got my degree at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition to become a holistic health coach. I quit my job because it was extremely stressful. I started waiting tables on the side in LA. Um, I also was writing for a blog. I was doing social media stuff on the side. I was really hustling. And flash forward, so my sister was working in new business development for this catering company, um, at the time, and my mom had just left her job as the director of education at ZRT. She wanted to start her own consulting business helping women to rebalance and testing their hormones. And so my sister came on board to help her grow the business. And I, at the same time, was graduating from IIN. So I came on board to be our in-house holistic health coach, to speak to our clients that wanted support with their nutrition and self-care and exercise and just forming a better relationship with food. So that's how we got into it. And my sister also experienced her her own hormone imbalance journey too. And through our process of testing and rebalancing naturally, she also experienced huge relief. So we come, we come by it honestly because we had all— my mom, my sister and I, we all had severe hormone imbalances. We were all able to rebalance using these natural approaches and testing. And then, of course, that makes you so passionate. And so now for the last 7 years, we've been working together as a family business.

That is just amazing. I so love this story and I love—

I mean, all of it.

If you weren't related, it would be a great story, but I think it's just that much more so, you know. And I think, you know, listeners, we say this all the time. So the hub of what we do at Flipping 50 is we believe there's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman. Who's got at least 3, 3 generations looking at her. And, you know, nobody else has that. No politician has that. So if we can, we can influence her health like you, Candice, influenced your own. I mean, the ripple effect, you know, on your own family is right here. And then, and then it's bigger for you because of course you're literally doing it But every woman listening has the power to do that, and I think you just kind of cemented that for them. So for listeners who want to probably stalk you, either one of you, or share you just with their daughters, where can they find you? Where's the best place or places?

Okay, I'll take this on, Mom.

I can battle it off. I, I just, I just wanted to say one thing though, that so much of what has evolved, what we've been describing came from my very propitious and fortuitous liaison with the, uh, Dr. Zava, the cancer research specialist who ran— who started ZRT, because he bravely started saying women are missing out. They need to understand that they can test their hormones, that there's such a thing as imbalance that we can rebalance with natural substances. And so I actually had the opportunity over 12 years to meet with the whole world of thought leaders and pioneers in this movement towards functional medicine and, you know, tailoring and individualizing what we need to do, which includes— which is so holistic. So it's really based on science, evidence-based medicine, experience, observation, and, you know, and then passing it on to other women who now we've tested through your Hormone Balance, thousands of women, and the experiences, I would say 98% of the time, people start to feel like they had forgotten how good they used to feel and how much better they can feel when this process ensues, this journey of rebalancing.

Great point.

Yeah.

Great point.

Yes, I love that. So yeah, no, this has been so fun. I feel like we could talk forever, but And our— yeah, we literally could. Our websites are yourhormonebalance.com and bodyblissbyjess.com. And yourhormonebalance.com is where you can find our testing. So if you're interested in getting your hormones tested and taking the steps to rebalance naturally, we actually created a code for your listeners. So if they're interested in doing that, they can use the code FLIPPING50 for $50 off our new and improved Rebalance Rescue Test Kit, which essentially includes a saliva test which tests for estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, and cortisol 4 times throughout the day. And you also get a recap of hormone test results with education to help you understand your next results. So the root causes and how those symptoms connect to your levels, and then the best natural rebalancing next steps.. And then from there, you can choose to add on a custom guide, which does an even deeper dive into your results, or you can book a one-on-one consultation with my mom, who, as you can tell, is a wealth of knowledge, and she'll review your results in depth over the phone. So that's how to work with us. And then on Instagram, it's Your Hormone Balance and Body Bliss by Jess. And we're very education-based, and our goal is to just empower and educate and open up the dialogue around, you know, all the different phases of life that we go through as women, and to just feel good about aging and to feel like you can also open up these conversations with your loved ones, with your kids, with your friends. And yeah, just step into that 2.0 version of yourself. Yeah.

And I have to say, having had my children late, I'm sitting here now at 75 years old. And I feel pretty darn good. I've been practicing hormone balance and, you know, helping other women do the same and teaching my daughters, and they're teaching others, and it's just all a very self-fulfilling, really wonderful experience. It's, you know, getting, getting happy with the whole aging process, and, and that menopause is such a freeing, liberating thing. And I thank you, Debra, for what you're doing that, you know, promoting that philosophy that, hey, this is— this can be the good menopause. This is a good time when we get to put time into ourselves and what we really want and need from life. Awareness is all, and we need— women are notorious for taking care of everyone but themselves. Well, now when you move into perimenopause and hormonal imbalances, you need extra tender, loving care, and that's what we want to help you We want to help women get there and, and take that time.

Fantastic. It's been delightful to talk to the both of you and to get a little insight into your family life as well. So listeners, now it's your turn. We've seen behind the scenes. I asked as good a questions as I could, and I think Jess and Candice covered a lot of ground here. And if you are interested interested in connecting, we've got links to both of them and more information all in the show notes. So there's a lot of wealth and gold here, so you're going to want to come to flipping50.com/mothersanddaughters. And what are you waiting for? Let's start flipping 50 today.