What Accelerates Aging and How to Reverse Aging

Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I have a little sleep secret I want to tell you about. Look, sleep is crucial for your fitness, but it's crucial for just plain old everyday life and function. And I find I sleep great unless I have a migraine. And I've had more than my fair share since perimenopause all the way through postmenopause. My secret weapon was Blue Sky CBD sleep gels. Each gel contains 25 milligrams of CBD and 25 milligrams CBN for deep restorative sleep. Something about it helps to reduce inflammation, which I believe for me was key in helping me get to sleep. But the biggest thing is so many of the over-the-counter solutions, whether for sleep or migraines, can ruin gut health, and liver health. Neither one of those did I want to be problematic for me. So this option is recommended by healthcare providers worldwide and backed by thousands of happy customers, many of whom come from our Flipping 50 community. There is zero THC, so it's non-habit-forming. It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at My Favorites. What are you waiting for? Good night. Are your habits accelerating aging? It's well known that oxidation accelerates aging, and yet the question could be, if we know what accelerates aging, don't we also know then how to reverse aging? I have a controversial guest on the show today. You know, if you're here and you've been here at Flipping 50 for a minute, that I'm an advocate for all exercise and agree with much of what we share today. However, I would, and I do express during the episode, that strength training is probably the pivotal piece in order to enable the aerobic, the balance, and the mobility exercise that you want for longevity purposes. So if you are prioritizing something in your schedule, I do believe that it needs to be strength training. And yet we want to strength train with full range of motion that brings in the mobility. We want to warm up and cool down where we get mobility in every workout. We want to actually incorporate balance when we're using strength training, and that strength and the mobility that we have allows a better gait, moving safer and more comfortably so we can do the aerobic activity. It all is integrated and important. It's just in for you at the moment you're in, in life, and in this case, midlife and in menopause, What is the most effective way for you to exercise to offset the status of your hormones as they're affecting your age? So I do believe and witness the higher levels of protein for midlife women, and that micronutrient insufficiencies, in large part as a result of gut issues occurring in midlife, they do exist. And measuring micronutrients can be a wise investment if you're not feeling well. And by that, I don't mean not sick. I mean really well, 100% you. So that said, much of my guest's information on longevity and why certain measures of strength for longevity still exist, they may be a little outdated. Even so, we talked about them and addressed them. You know, we can't share here at Flipping 50, we can't share an isolated silo view of aging that is mine and only mine. So I'm bringing you this guest And I do think that there's one thing to consider in an overarching way. The current evidence of longevity doesn't tell us necessarily the outcome of, say, eating different levels or different kinds of protein— hormone-free, antibiotic-free, grass-fed, or wild sources of protein. Those previous measures, what's existing now giving us the evidence between plant versus animal protein? Often the protein quality hasn't been screened well in those studies. So we may be talking about, while you're buying organic and grass-fed, grass-finished, in those studies we may have been looking at bologna and hot dogs. And those are considerations that we've got to take into account. So what's really the difference? Were we comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges? And we may to measure ourselves and monitor ourselves for health and wellbeing. Where do we feel best? Where do we have the most lean muscle? Where do we avoid getting overly fat and be most healthy and monitor that? Because there's a gap, I believe, between the science that exists now about how aging and longevity is working and what we are implementing now and learning about muscle body composition, hormone strength training, fueling. All of these things leave a gap between if we did this now for the next 20 and 30, 40 years, how is that going to change longevity science? And time will tell. So this is just food for thought as you go into this episode. In this episode, you'll be presented with some ideas that may be congruent with your beliefs, maybe counter to your own beliefs, and above all, measure your own progress, and keep measuring and evaluating your own habits. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50, where I address your top struggles and concerns. But most of all, we hope to inspire you to expect and demand to age in a way very differently than we've seen prior generations do. I share what to eat, how to move, and how to change your mindset so that you can have the energy and the vitality that you want need and deserve in this second and better half. My guest today is Dr. Carl Giordano, and he's the co-founder and chief science officer of Revasana. He's a double board certified in orthopedics and spine surgery and completed his residency and fellowship at the Hospital for Joint Diseases and New York U Langone Medical Center. He has served as the medical director at Stryker, HauMedica Tissue Bank, and HealthSouth Physical Therapy, and on several American Board of Spine Surgery committees. His scientific background has led to numerous peer-reviewed publications and book chapters. His scientific travels have taken him from the NIH, which is National Institute of Health, to Rockefeller University. He holds multiple patents and continues with research and development. Dr. Giordano recently co-founded Revasana out of a devotion to providing the public with a supplement designed by latest scientific research that promotes longevity and better quality of life. And you will learn at the end of the show, and that will be in show notes of course at Flipping50.com where you can get the links and begin to learn more. He's got a lot of wisdom to share with this. So let's dive in. Dr. Carl, thank you so much for joining us.

Oh, you're welcome. It's a pleasure for me to be here with you.

Well, okay, this is a topic near and dear to my listeners' hearts, but if we start at the very beginning, a very good place to start, let's just list these things that cause aging. What might accelerate aging?

Sure. I think when we talk about accelerating and decelerating aging, we're talking about 3 main categories. One is exercise and how it influences that category of healthspan and lifespan or aging. One is diet and how it again affects the same category. And for me, the third category is what I refer to as signal molecules or messenger molecules. So those are the 3 things we want to talk about, and all 3 of them are important. And depending on which expert you speak to, they may have a favorite category. I, I believe in all 3 categories, and I think they all overlap. And I don't think anybody should feel as though they got a monopoly on one category or another.

I love that, but I also want to clarify something. So I asked confusing, potentially not clear question. And I asked both, and you gave me 3 categories. Is it possible that exercise, diet, and/or messenger molecules could either accelerate or reverse aging?

Yes. All 3 can. If we're doing the wrong 3 things in each of those categories, you can accelerate or decelerate aging.

And everybody here wants to know, hanging on the edge of their seat, how do I— what things that specifically— we'll start with exercise because we know that's why a lot of people tune in here. They stick around for the rest. But what— how, if I'm exercising incorrectly, what would that look like where I may be accelerating aging?

Sure. And I think the way you accelerate aging in the exercise category is essentially by not engaging in exercise. And when we talk about exercise, again, we should break that down into 4 specific subcategories: strength training, aerobic conditioning, balance function or proprioception, and stretching. Those are the 4 categories in the exercise category that everybody needs to be aware of. And if you don't participate in those, you will accelerate the whole— I'm sorry, decelerate the aging process. And we honestly, we want to decelerate the aging process. That's our goal. So, and what I think, you know, when we talk about this category of accelerating or decelerating aging, we want to— everybody in America wants to measure something. We want a lab test, we want a number value. And, you know, there are ways you can do that, but you have to have a little science background in understanding, well, what are the ways you measure it and what's the value of each of these subcategories? And whether we're talking about exercise, diet, or certain molecules, essentially we are measuring how these categories affect our cellular mechanisms. Because aging in all of these categories basically boils down to how we are influencing ourselves to maintain their identity. You probably have heard of the information theory of aging. And, you know, essentially what we're talking about is how do we keep ourselves functioning the way they should when we're young. And we do that by these 3 categories. And we can get into some of the details. And I do like talking specifically about each of them individually. But everybody needs to understand that there are essentially a few categories that carry the most weight. And those categories are, you know, how do we influence our longevity genes? How do we influence our glucose metabolism or metabolic processes? How do we influence the free radical problems that occur in our cells? And exercise actually influences all of those categories. So you'll see me when I answer all of your questions, trying to reduce everything back to those cellular mechanisms that help maintain your brain cell, your muscle cell, your skin cell functioning the way it was when you were in your 20s. That's our goal here.

Yeah, love that. Okay, so, you know, there's a common theme, you know, and there's so many influencers talking about this and people get on sides and we're talking about this or that. But one of those very common, especially as you're talking about fitness influencers, fitness experts who are working with women in midlife and beyond, is this dilemma between cardio versus strength training. And, you know, the oxidation that comes with too much chronic cardio, maybe endurance training, versus what can we do with strength training. But too much of anything is not good. Um, how would you respond if, if somebody said, which is better, cardio or strength training?

Yeah, and look, I, I find some of this gets lost in the PhD literature where somebody promotes their whole life. I'm looking at either strength training or aerobic conditioning or balance or stretching, and they really push for their field. And I think as a physician, you know, my background is orthopedics. I'm looking at the big picture. So I don't think anybody can pick and choose one category in the exercise category. All four of those are important.. And we know they're important because we know if you want to pick an aerobic conditioning status where you should be able to run 10 miles an hour or walk upstairs as you get older, you can backtrack and see what your aerobic conditioning needs to be now. So if you can't meet those goals now, you're going to deteriorate over the course of time with your VO2 max or your ability to utilize oxygen. And likewise, if you want to have a certain strength as you get older, we can backtrack and see what your strength has to be now in order for you to lift a certain amount of weight or do certain exercises as you get older. So all of these categories are important. What's the, what's the purpose of having good aerobic conditioning? But not good balance function where you can fall and break a hip? What's the point of having good strength if you can't stretch because your joints have become tight? So I think it's a real mistake for anybody to pick any one of these subcategories in exercise and say one is more powerful or important than the other. And look, so I'm sure your listeners understand that oxidative stress, you know, exercise stimulates the production of reactive oxygen species, and that activates the body's antioxidant defense mechanisms. So there's a, there's a cellular benefit to exercise in that capacity. But to overlook the value of maintaining strength, I think, is wrong. I think to overlook the value of maintaining proprioception or balance or stretching is wrong. I think you have to find the balance to, to function at all of those categories.

Absolutely love that. Indulge me for just a little minute. So when we look at— I mean, we look at some kind of a measure. You mentioned, you know, VO2 max if we're looking at aerobic capacity, if we were really going to take somebody in a lab. Talk to me about the value of assessing strength by handgrip, which I always have found so very interesting. And, you know, started out in labs as an exercise clinic graduate assistant back in the early '80s, and I just thought, okay, how is this so relevant again? But what do you like to see for assessing strength in age? We're, we're still using handgrip.

Yeah, well, the reason is, like, as you get older, if you want to be able to open up bottle, you know, of olives or peanut butter, you have to have a certain strength to be able to untwist that cap. And we know that you're going to lose strength. It will deteriorate per decade. And as an example, you know, we look at some of the larger muscles, but the same thing is going to apply to the smaller muscles. So over age 60, our muscle mass declines at a rate of about 1 to 2% per year. Over age 30, we lose 3 to 8% of muscle mass per decade, and your muscle strength decreases with age at about 1 to 2% per year after age 50. So if you can't— if you don't have a certain grip strength now, we know with those rates of decline where you'll be 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. So you're extrapolating what your grip strength is now as to what it will be in the future with this kind of insidious decline that we expect. And that's why you can use grip strength, you can use squatting with weight training exercises to make an assessment as to how strong you'll be, whether you'll be able to walk up and down stairs in the future.

Or get out of a chair, right?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I think, you know, the information exists for people to be able to predict where they're going to be 10, 20, or 30 years from now. And if you're okay with not being able to open up a bottle in 10 years or 20 years, then this information doesn't matter to you. But if you want to be independent and do all those types of things, then you need to know what your grip strength has to be now. So it's a, it's a way to assess how we are aging. Are we accelerating our aging because we are not maintaining our strength? You know, so that's where that comes from.

Love that. Thank you for that. Okay, what's the current state of longevity research? I mean, I know we're, as, as we baby boomers and then that generation following them, we're bigger, we're more massive, we're kind of demanding. I don't think I want the model that I've had so far. What else can we do? What's the current state of longevity research and how are we unlocking the key to slow it or even reverse aging?

Yes. So I think it's very sophisticated today. And what's interesting about this state is that it's not entirely new. A lot of the information that we're going to talk about is 10, 15 years old. But unfortunately, this information just doesn't get into the public media very easily. And sometimes it's not very well understood. And that's why these types of podcasts are great to get this information out there. But look, I think the science of exercise is very sophisticated, not just on, on a level of measuring what you have to have now to measure what you have to have in the future, but just sticking with the exercise category. We know on a cellular level, strength training helps maintain your telomeres, which are the tips of your DNA. Strength training helps promote DNA repair. And we know as your DNA ages, you accumulate more and more errors, and that's how your DNA loses its identity. We know strength training promotes oxidative or antioxidant defenses. We know strength training on a cellular level promotes immune function and anti-inflammation. We know strength training works on glucose metabolism and your entire metabolic health. So although we talk about strength training, we know now on a cellular level exactly what it does and why we should believe in it. Yeah. Now, the same goes for the category of diet. We know certain diets are associated with longevity, with healthspan and lifespan. And look, this is the Mediterranean diet. Now, you may say, well, I want more muscle bulk and I'm going to have a more meat-eater's diet. But there's no question a low-protein, high-complex-carbohydrate diet, which is what the Mediterranean diet is on a cellular level, promotes autophagy, promotes recycling of misfolded proteins to help maintain cellular identity. And then the third category are these signal molecules that work on all of these categories. They work on the longevity gene pathways, they work on the telomere health, they work on glucose metabolism, they work on promoting antioxidants, again at the cellular level. So I think the current state today is fine-tuning how each of these categories— exercise, diet, and symptom molecules— all work on these same pathways. And I think sometimes, you know, you have people that have their favorite category, and I think ultimately it's a mistake because they're all important and they all overlap. You know, someone might focus on strength training, but what they don't realize is strength training or exercise in general still works as you reduce it down to the cellular benefits that we're all talking about to help maintain your cell functioning the way it should. And I think people get a little caught up with the idea that we're talking about cells, but you just have to understand that cells make up tissues, tissues make up organs.. So even though I'm referring to cells, I'm referring to your, your organs. I'm referring to your skin, which is the largest organ in your body. You want your skin looking and feeling, you know, young and healthy, just like I want your heart or your joints or your, your cartilage in your joints remaining young and healthy. And all 3 of these categories are important. And I think the degree of sophistication with how we are studying how each of these categories works on a cellular level to maintain your cell acting as a young cell.

I love this. And, okay, so we— you gave me 3 categories: exercise, diet, messenger molecules. We've talked a little bit about exercise. So of course, I mean, you're talking to somebody who, with a big ego, thinks, I think I've got this one. And, and who's eaten her whole life, right? We all think we're a little bit of an expert, I think, about diet. That's dangerous. But I, I believe you, you know, in terms of the Mediterranean diet. I wrestle with that one, I will have to say, because of the, you know, protein to build strength. And of course, a part of me says, well, yes, it's true what you're saying about all exercise is equal. However, I also want to come back and say yes, but instead of yes, and I I want to say that, uh, muscle empowers all the rest. So if you, if you have the strength, you can practice the balance and you can do the aerobic activity. So maybe can we just win in terms of strength training there? Um, but I— no, okay, well, exercise, diet, I, I can, I can tactfully, practically do that, but how do I go to the messenger molecules? How do I work on that one?

Okay. But before we even get to that, and I love talking about the messenger molecules because it's really talking about the cellular mechanisms, which is really the field that I like the most. But I think, look, I am largely plant-based and the Mediterranean diet is largely plant-based. You know, it's a small amount of fish and meat. People get very confused about the Mediterranean diet. It's largely plant-based. A lot of nuts and grains and greens. A very small amount of fish, chicken, and meat. And then the question comes up, well, can I maintain muscle mass with a low-protein, high-complex-carbohydrate diet? And the answer is a resounding yes. You absolutely can maintain muscle mass. You just have to eat enough of the proteins that you get from the Mediterranean-style diet. I don't feel as though I've lost muscle mass. I play a lot of sports. I play competitive squash. I hit golf balls almost every day. I don't think I've lost any distance because I've sacrificed, you know, a more protein-driven diet.

So can I— I'm sorry to interrupt, so apologies, but you're saying something that makes me curious. So as an an orthopedic expert. You said, "I don't think I have." Are you not measuring? Are you not measuring body composition, your muscle mass?

Uh, yeah. So I, I didn't want to be obnoxious and be definitive. Please do. Go, go for it. But my, my weight has been incredibly consistent over the years, um, and I think because I play a lot of vigorous sports I've maintained my strength and I do strength training almost every day outside of playing squash, outside of hitting golf balls. I get into the gym every day, get on the treadmill. I do sprints, I do distance, and I do heavy weights because I think you still need to do that. I also do a lot of balance functioning exercises. And I think if you're a golfer, you see what the state is with regards to the pro golfers' fitness programs, they do a lot of one-legged squats with weights in their hands. Yeah, not easy. No, but, but those are the important exercises as well as the stretching. Now, I haven't lost any distance or any muscle mass or any inability to maintain the same number of reps that I've done for a very long time. And look, none of my clothes have changed in terms of fit. So I'm quite confident that on a plant-based diet I have not lost any muscle mass. But I think people think that a low protein diet will ultimately lead to a loss of muscle mass. There was an article that was recently published that, that indicated that that was not the case. Now, you do need to have more of the beans, more of the quinoa. You still need to have protein. I mean, nobody, nobody should misunderstand this to indicate we don't need protein in our diet. We certainly need protein in our diet, but we don't need as much as what the meat eaters and the fish eaters believe. And I think that's the take-home point with the Mediterranean diet. You can have 20% of your food that you consume as a meat. But if you want to find the happy medium between healthspan, lifespan, and muscle mass, for me, the ideal diet is largely a plant-based diet.

Got it. And what I love is that you're measuring it, right? I mean, both in terms of, you know, what's your strength? Am I, am I still lifting the same and/or am I gaining strength, in fact? And You know, looking at, you know, I'm a huge component of ever since the pandemic started, everybody having a smart scale at home, not just weight, but actually looking at what's your percent body fat and what's your percent muscle. Let's watch those. And then, you know, personally, study of one, what are your current habits adding up to? What's happening?

Yeah, yeah. Look, I weigh myself almost every day. Just out of habit. And I like to see how the things that I do, the things that I eat affect my weight. And I think, you know, if you're gaining weight or losing weight, then you might have to reevaluate. If you're losing strength, you might have to reevaluate. But I, I don't let people get away with telling me that, you know, I need meat in my diet. Yeah, I'm okay with having some meat in your diet, But the American diet, the Western diet is just way, way too oriented towards things that fight against the healthspan and the longevity science that exists today.

So, yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of us, there's, there's a lot of different entities out there kind of trying to flip things on its ear. It'll be interesting in 30 years to say, now what's the longevity research where we've had, you know, high-level of protein and/or, you know, low levels of protein, and we can look at what's the difference between these populations. It'll be interesting. But I want to ask you a loaded question here about supplements and, and our need to supplement in 2023 and beyond. Can someone eat all the nutrients they need? Do we need to supplement? And And everyone has an opinion or a feeling about this. What's the state of the supplement industry, which is billions of dollars, you know? And is— how do we know? I think, how does a listener know? Is it snake oil? Is it I'm taking too little of this to actually help? You know, it's all very— you know, how do we know who to trust? That's what a listener is asking.

Yeah. And look, in the supplement market, you have your vitamins like vitamin D, you have your minerals like zinc and magnesium, and then you have your messenger molecules. So in terms of the vitamins and the minerals, I think it's extremely rare that anybody in this country is vitamin or mineral deficient. It's very unlikely, especially with the minerals. As we get older and as we become more indoor-oriented, the overwhelming majority of Americans are vitamin D deficient. That's the only vitamin that I think people should focus on. You need your vitamin D for bone metabolism. You need your vitamin D for your immune system and your brain. And there was an article that was just published in one of the orthopedic journals that indicated that about 80 to 90% of Americans are vitamin D deficient.. And you might ask why. Well, what's the change? And the change is we're all wearing sunscreen. We're all largely indoors. Historically, you would have to be in the sun in a t-shirt and shorts 15 minutes a day in the sun in order to maintain your vitamin D level. But today, if you were to check your vitamin D levels, and I checked mine years ago, and sure enough, I was vitamin D deficient, and I've been supplementing my vitamin D for years now. So that was an interesting article. And it also highlighted that even athletes are vitamin D deficient. And if you're vitamin D deficient, you're at greater risk for a stress fracture or a fracture. We also tend to become a little bit vitamin B12 deficient as we get older. So those are the two vitamins I think people need to focus on. All the other vitamins, I think you're extremely unlikely to be vitamin deficient. And in terms of the minerals, I mean, it's extremely rare today to see any kind of mineral deficiency. You know, a lot of the foods are fortified and supplemented. You know, we're getting a lot of minerals just from plant-based sources as well. Very rare. Now, the messenger molecules is a whole different category or subcategory in this supplement area. Because again, they are natural organic molecules found in nature, found in plants, found in food. But what we've identified is that at certain doses, you start to nudge your cellular genetic longevity gene pathways in our favor. And that's the difference. So you've probably heard of resveratrol. Resveratrol is the compound, the organic molecule found in red wine. And it's associated with the French population having a lower risk of cardiovascular disease despite their diets being high in fat, despite the fact that they have a large population of people that smoke. And they attribute that paradox to the fact that they have a high consumption of red wine. And in the red wine are not just the resveratrols, but multiple polyphenols that are probably beneficial. So when you start taking these, these messenger molecules out and giving them to unicellular organisms in the lab or small mammals, you start to see a lot of cellular benefits. And indeed you start to see in animals, small mammals, longevity benefits. So that's the category of The messenger molecules, resveratrol is just one of the 5 that get the most publicity today. The other ones are things like berberine, which is similar to metformin, except it's over-the-counter. I recently saw that the GoLo product that's out there to help lose weight has berberine in it as, as it's hypoglycemic. But berberine at a certain dose nudges another cellular genetic pathway called the AMPK pathway that, you know, has a multitude of benefits. So every one of these messenger molecules nudges a cellular pathway in every cell in your body to maintain its cellular identity. And that's the category of the messenger molecules. The other, the other 3 messenger molecules are quercetin, which, which works as a senolytic to get rid of the senolytic cells. Astragalus, which works on your telomeres to maintain the length of your telomeres. And then nicotinamide mononucleotide that works in every cell in your body to work on the sirtuin pathways. So these are all So everything I think in my mind needs to be judged with regards to how it's actually affecting the cellular mechanisms. And the reason for that is, you know, you alluded to this earlier. How do we measure? How do we know there's benefit? And we are obsessed in America with measuring something. We want a tape measure or a blood test. And look, in mammals, and in unicellular organisms. For instance, if you give these molecules to yeast cells, they can live and reproduce 30% longer. If you give these to small mammals like mice, they will live longer, they will run on a treadmill farther. So how do we measure this in humans? Well, that's the hard part because we're not— we haven't lived long enough now to be able to state definitively people on messenger molecules live 20 years longer and live healthier because we haven't been using it long enough. But we see these benefits in every organism tested. And I think people have to get beyond the fact that they want to measure it. Now, I will tell you that you can send your, your DNA off to a lab and you can get your biological age. And if you're on these molecules, you've probably seen in the media, many people are out there touting the fact that they are biologically 10 years younger than their chronological age. And I will tell you, I have had my DNA tested and I too came back biologically 10 years younger than my chronological age. And I will tell you, my wife came back 16 years younger. Than her chronological age.

I mean, Robin, you're robbing the cradle.

Those are big numbers to measure. Now, I don't think everyone's going to send their DNA off to a lab, but I don't think there's any question that if you want to measure it, you can measure it.

Mm-hmm. So good. So good. What What could somebody do right now if you were to give like your best advice? Everybody wants to know like right now, immediate gratification, yesterday, yesterday if you can. What would you say are the things that are on your— this is a do every day or a on a weekly basis do this?

Yeah, I, I think everybody needs to visualize these 3 categories: exercise, diet, and the messenger molecules. I think you need to participate in all three. I think to pick one or two and think you're going to benefit the same way is wrong because these are cellular mechanisms that we have to nudge in our favor. And I think people need to understand— I think they get the whole exercise category. I don't think they get the diet category. I think they need to understand that if you want to maintain your health and promote healthspan and lifespan, you've got to push yourself towards the low protein, high complex carbohydrate diet, period. No compromise. Look, I don't know if you are a Tom Brady fan, but he basically has lived the low protein, high complex carbohydrate diet for years. That is his diet. Probably 20% of his food is in the meat category. That's it. I don't think he's lost any, any muscle mass. I don't think he's lost any strength. His aerobic conditioning is probably spot on. His balance and stretching are probably fantastic. So people need to stop saying, oh, I can have French fries, it's okay. You know, you've got to get rid of that type of stuff in your diet. Your diet is important. And I think you've got to stop with the compromise on that. I've heard people say, well, I want more muscle mass. I am going to stick with food. I can't measure that the Mediterranean diet is any better. Well, that's not true anymore because there was a study in 2021 published by Fitzgerald that showed if you gave people the Mediterranean diet, within a couple of months you could sequence their DNA and see that they already showed signs of age reversal on their DNA. Now, could you see it clinically? Well, that's the hard part. You have to wait 20, 30 years to be able to identify it. It's a hard thing to measure because we're all exposed to different environmental and lifestyle choices. But on a cellular level, the science indicates that, yes, your diet does make a difference. So I would tell everybody, stop saying to yourself it doesn't matter. Your exercise routine, your diet routine, and your signal molecules do make a difference. And that, that's what would be my take-home message to the public.

Sweet. Yeah. Yep. So very easy, really, and easy to measure for yourself. Is this working for me? Where, where can our listeners connect with you for more information?

So I have a website titled webasana.com, and on that website I have a resource section that will list in much more detail what the cellular mechanisms are that we're all trying to nudge in our favor. On that website, there's also an extensive bibliography. I think I listed about 150 articles articles that will give people the understanding of where they can go if they want even more information. The website also provides a product that provides these 5 messenger molecules at the right dose that you need to see the benefits that we're looking for.

So good. Yeah. And I don't think today we have You know, there is an abundance of information, there's overwhelm, but I think all of our listeners like to know the what, they like to know the how and the why. And so being able to dig into the science at any level that an individual wants to, if you've provided a wealth of ways to do that, so I thank you so much.

No, I, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity. I think, you know, your platform ability to provide this information to the public is, is invaluable.

Well, thank you so much. And we think that our listeners are invaluable, actually. I mean, midlife women influence more people than anyone else in the world. I mean, when you think about 3 generations that look to them, it's, it's really— this is, this is the people. So it's all up to you, listeners. If there is a question that you wish I would have asked Dr. Carl, now's your chance. You can go to show notes and you will get the links where you can connect with him. So if you're walking, you're working out, or you're driving right now, we've got you covered. Show notes will be at flipping50.com/howtoreverseaging. What could be better?