Woman to Woman: How to Get Your Best Sleep in Midlife

Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I have a little sleep secret I want to tell you about. Look, sleep is crucial for your fitness, but it's crucial for just plain old everyday life and function. And I find I sleep great unless I have a migraine. And I've had more than my fair share since perimenopause all the way through postmenopause. My secret weapon was Blue Sky CBD sleep gels. Each gel contains 25 milligrams of CBD and 25 milligrams CBN for deep restorative sleep. Something about it helps to reduce inflammation, which I believe for me was key in helping me get to sleep. But the biggest thing is so many of the over-the-counter solutions, whether for sleep or migraines, can ruin gut health, and liver health. Neither one of those did I want to be problematic for me. So this option is recommended by healthcare providers worldwide and backed by thousands of happy customers, many of whom come from our Flipping 50 community. There is zero THC, so it's non-habit-forming. It's made by a trusted family-owned company that we all can feel good about. Third-party tested for purity and potency. And if you're interested, you too can try a sample for just $6. But even better, you can get 30% off forever with discount code FLIPPING50. That's FLIPPING50. Just go to flipping50.com/blueskycbd. We'll put that link in the show notes and you'll find it everywhere on Flipping 50 at My Favorites. What are you waiting for? Good night. It is time to get your best sleep in midlife and later, by the way. So if you would define yourself as beyond midlife because maybe, say, you don't want to get to be 140, we've got you covered too. Stay tuned. You're going to hear about thought restructuring, placebo effects, and how to improve your days by improving your nights. Does sex before bed improve your sleep? What do you do if you're waking at 2 or 3 AM regularly? Why might you be waking at these times? And why does the frequency of wake-ups increase as women age? Yeah, we're gonna answer all these questions and so much more. So first of all, I posted— I'm wondering if you saw this on our Facebook group or page— a quiz about, I mean, what is your status, listener? I mean, do you have Do you have trouble getting to sleep? Do you have trouble staying asleep? Or do you have trouble waking too early? I'm hoping you're not checking all those boxes, but these are common questions that I ask of my clients, and then we can dig into each one of those. But we will be talking about morning routines, evening routines, what happens that may be concerning for you if you are using a tracker, if you need some sleep support, what do you wanna know about in terms of choice of that kind of support and what might you want to do first? We cover it all in this episode. Can't wait to dive in. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50, where I address top struggles and concerns of women in midlife and menopause, but also really hope to inspire you. And we have some fantastic guests in store for you in this coming year, and I can't wait to hear from you about who you'd love to hear interviewed or If you're a listener, a member, a program participant, and we have somehow positively impacted your life, I'd love to tell your story so that you can inspire another woman to say, hey, if she can, I can. And that is exactly why I think we're all here. Women in midlife are the biggest, most powerful health influencers in the world. We share what to eat, how to move, and how to change your mindset so you can have the energy and mentality that you want, need, and deserve in the second and better half. And I'd love to have you right here be a part of it. If you're not a candidate or you think you're not for being interviewed on the show, would you do me a favor? And if you know 2 or 3 friends who also want to age feeling their best, having the most energy, would you please share this podcast with them? We all lean on our friends for recommendations of favorite podcasts, so I so appreciate it. My guest today is Morgan Adams. She's a transformative holistic sleep coach who empowers women to conquer their battle with sleepless nights without reliance on sleep medications. With her powerful sleep toolkit, Morgan not only ensures that women experience a profound enhancement in their sleep quality, but she also guides them in rekindling their relationship with sleep, paving the way for less stressful and more fulfilling days. Having struggled with sleep insomnia and dependency on prescription sleeping pills for almost a decade, Morgan intimately understands the profound impact sleep has on one's quality of life. Morgan's resilience shines bright as a two-time breast cancer survivor. This experience fueled by her advocacy for a lifestyle rooted in disease prevention. Her wisdom and guidance extend far beyond just sleep. As she champions holistic well-being in all aspects of life. Let's dive into this episode on sleep from a slightly different angle. Morgan Adams, thank you so much for joining us here.

Great to be with you, Debra. Appreciate the invite.

Well, you know, and you had me at hello, of course, because everyone knows I'm a sucker for an accent, so I'm like really looking forward to this. Before we dive into this oh-so important topic of sleep and the elusiveness of it. And I think a lot of women— I'm one probably— who are a little bit cocky, like, I've always been a great sleeper. I can't tell you how many times I've said that, probably on social too. And probably women out there that would like to slap me. But, you know, then there are times when I will have a bad night, and it was like, oh, wait a minute, I better hush. You know, I can't be— can't be too cocky about this because, you know, things do change and fluctuate. So Why though this topic? How did this become like a pillar in what it is you do? Because you talk about this really a lot.

I do. I talk about a ton. And the reason I talk about it so much is just because of my passion. And it really— the whole sleep story started for me. I was in my mid-30s and I was going through a relationship issue. And what ended up happening is I developed insomnia. So I, I had what they call sleep onset insomnia. So what that really translated to was me struggling to get asleep, to get to sleep every night.

Yeah.

But it took me about 2 hours to fall asleep most nights. And after a couple months of that, I got really tired of it and went to my doctor and was given Ambien, which I'm sure everyone's heard of. And back then I was actually a pharmaceutical sales rep. So when I was presented with a medication, I had no qualms because in my, in my book, there was a pill for every ill. So give me what works, right? So I took, I took the Ambien. It got me to sleep a little faster, did what it said it was going to do, but had lots of side effects the next day, grogginess. And we can delve into that more later, but it wasn't a good situation. However, I ended up staying on them for about 8 years because I didn't know of any other way to handle the insomnia. And then I had sort of a turning point 8 years in. I started to date a man who is now my husband. And we were— when we were in the beginning stages of our relationship, he said to me, you know, I have to just tell you that when you take that pill, you sort of act like a zombie and it freaks me out. So I was like, whoa, I just got called out. So I just— that was like my point where I said, I'm going to stop using these pills. And I did what I don't recommend anyone do. So I actually just took myself off the pills without any kind of supervision or guidance from my doctor. If anyone is wanting to get off their sleeping pills, please contact your prescribing provider and ideally work with a sleep coach who can help you with that accountability and support. But I just, I just went rogue and did it myself and successful in doing it. I slept well after that. For many years. And then there was a plot twist. And that plot twist was something that we all experienced collectively in March of 2020. In the very first few months of the pandemic, my sleep started to suffer. And I got very concerned that I was going down that road of insomnia again, and I did not want to go there. So I went to Dr. Google and started looking up how to sleep better, all those things. I got an Oura Ring to track my sleep. And in fairly short order, I got my sleep back on track. And what I ended up doing, just out of kind of just sheer fascination with the whole topic, is I started posting on Facebook things that I was doing to help my sleep. And I noticed that at this time, a lot of other people in my circle were struggling with their sleep as well. And it was late in 2020 that I got this, this sort of like revelation that I had to start working as a sleep coach for women to help them with their sleep because I had been so impacted by this whole sleep journey. I wanted to help others with their sleep struggles. So that is, that is the, the whole story of how I got to what I'm doing now.

Wow, I got it. Yeah, you know, a lot of things went haywire, I think, during the pandemic.

Yes.

I mean, for people who— I was, I was one who I'd been in menopause, I think, for 2 years and had a breakthrough all of a sudden. So, you know, I was at that phase of— it was over time to color my hair. So I was like going out for— I'm like, somebody called me. I remember the day I was like, what? Like, I can't handle that right now. I just spray painted my hair and I have to go buy tampons. I mean, this is not the day. This is not your day for help from me. Not available. You know, it's too much going on over here. Like, oh my goodness. So Yeah, I think it did get a little bizarre, and I think I just— all the uncertainty and, you know, of the pandemic. So it's like, here we are, first of all, in that bubble as women in menopause, that uncertainty, and then just globally in the world, but also in our micro centers, our homes. Like, yes, you know, adult kids may be coming in and coming back and then leaving and then not knowing, or where are they and what are we all gonna do? And yeah, yeah. It was just too much, too much.

Yes, lots of unknowns. Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people, you know, like I mentioned, were having trouble with their sleep at that point, weird dreams, and, you know, their schedules were all changing. And I think the people who fared pretty well from this were the night owls, right? Because they got to— because of virtual working, they didn't have to like report to an office by a certain time. So yeah, they kind of got the luxury of like abiding by their chronotype and sleeping in a little bit later. So they got the good end of the deal.

I hadn't thought of it that way. Yeah, very interesting. So yeah, you know, and it's interesting, they don't get punished for staying up late watching a movie. I mean, it's— it fits their system.

Yes.

The rest of us, if we get caught up in a movie, then we're in trouble. Yeah, so, so believe that. Okay, so You mentioned you were sharing your tips. So what were you sharing? What did you find worked for you? And then collectively, I guess, what really was a common denominator with other women as you began to share that works for them?

Yeah, so I think the biggest movers for me were having a regular wake-up time in the morning, really, because that, that helps strengthen your circadian rhythm. Another thing that I did was, you know, I'm gonna stop you right there. Yeah.

And so I do want you to keep going, but I don't want anybody to just skim over that because I think this is one where this is a tough one and women don't give it enough credit, like realizing this is a pivotal thing you can control. I think a lot of women still are under the belief that, well, if I'm not sleeping well, wouldn't it be better to stay in bed and get some sleep? Yes, I honestly had a— so if you're listening, Sue, love you, respect you. I had a friend here, you know, a little over a month ago, and, you know, she was saying what she hadn't slept, you know, very well the night before, so she didn't get up and walk. And I was kind of, you know, holding her feet to the fire. We weren't walking at the same time because I, I already am, am a really early morning person, and then I have a puppy, so he was backpedaling me into, you know, having to get up and go earlier. Now, when I say I'm a morning person, I like to have my quiet, calm Masha with no interference. I'm not getting that right now. But we were going for a walk really early. My expectation was not that she would join us necessarily, but she wasn't doing her own thing. And part of why she was here was for to be in an environment where that reset was part of the way we function here, you know. And I said, okay, whoa, nope, that's really not what we should do. So a little tough love sometimes. So realize that controlling that can help you then get a better night's sleep tonight, right? Yes. And, and you can control it, but you can't necessarily control like going to bed or falling asleep.

Yeah.

But you increase the odds that you will go to sleep on a more regular basis if you get up on a more regular basis.

Yes, you nailed it. Debra? Yeah, that really consistent wake-up time acts like an anchor. So what ends up happening is if you're getting up at the same time every morning, you're going to find yourself getting sleepy around the same time, which is about 16 hours after you wake up is when your adenosine, your sleep chemical, kind of builds to its peak and needs to be released. So your, your going to bedtime is naturally going to kind of fall in line when you're— when your wake-up time is really consistent. And I'll add, and I know you'll agree with me on this, It's also regular wake-up time on the weekends or your days off. Cause a lot of people miss that point. They're like, well, I can, oh, cool. Okay. I'll Monday through Friday, I'll wake up at 7 AM and then the weekends it's a free-for-all. And what happens is that free-for-all becomes social jet lag. And you find that you have trouble sleeping Sunday night. And then Monday morning is really a drag and it's hard to kind of get a good start to the week. So. Definitely for those people who are, who are, whose minds are percolating with this idea of consistent wake-up time, just remember it's 7 days a week.

Yeah, love that. 365.

That's right.

This is the deal. Otherwise, maybe not Christmas morning.

Yeah. Yeah, we'll give you an exception.

Yeah, right. But that means it's actually earlier if you're getting up to put, fill the stocking and all that.

That's right.

Anyway, yeah. Okay, sorry for the interruption, but I really wanted to call that one out. So go continue on, if you will. So setting the first and same wake-up time every day. Yeah.

And then, and then along the same lines of something to do in the morning is getting outside and getting yourself some natural light exposure within about an hour of waking up. And what you want to do is you want to make sure that when you go out and do this morning sunlight exposure, you're giving yourself at least 15 minutes, maybe 30 if it's a cloudy day, it's overcast. And you want to make sure that you don't wear your sunglasses because your light need— your, your eyes need to see that actual light. The light needs to hit your retina. That's really important. And when you're— when that light hits your retina, it sends a signal to your suprachiasmatic nucleus, which is your circadian pacemaker. And then there's this beautiful cascade of hormonal and neurotransmitter releases that happen. So your melatonin from the night before gets shut off, your cortisol will boost for energy, your serotonin will boost for your mood, and then you'll also begin your production for melatonin for the next night. So if you're wearing your sunglasses, I mean, I'm sure you look cute in them, but you're really doing your circadian rhythm a disservice by wearing them in the morning.

I want to ask you a question. Yeah, so you— something you said there, so helping yourself with a cortisol boost when, when you get exposure to that sunlight, and often it is already something that if you're waking up naturally, that is a part of the mechanism that, that does help you wake up. I just saw a post, so I'm going to throw this in there, and this is a little random and certainly a surprise maybe to you coming at you. But something that I read enough to be dangerous about, so I'm not sure I absorbed exactly. But I also think that our listeners, we can easily do this, right? We see a little snippet of a post and we get an idea in our head not knowing if it's true. So let's snap this open. I think it was Dave Asprey posted something about, uh, doing an early morning cold plunge, and he was doing it in part to induce and elevate his cortisol level for morning. Mm-hmm. Comments on that?

Yeah. Well, you know, I have mixed feelings about cold plunges. They can, they can be really shocking. They can be really shocking to your system. I think that it's not a one-size-fits-all with the cold exposure. Um, that's not the way I would choose to start my morning, but he could, he can knock himself out with it. I think it's a lot easier sometimes for men. To do cold plunges for some reason. I like to occasionally end my shower with like a 30-second, you know, cold, you know, spritz. But, um, that's about as far as I take it. I feel like my cortisol is already pretty good from my morning walk, so I don't feel the need to like go all out. But yeah, that sounds like something he would say for sure. I love him. He's definitely a biohacking guy. You know, he's gonna pull out all the stops.

Yeah. And I think he was in the same, and to my defense and maybe my ignorance, so maybe for bringing this up, I should be slapped, but I didn't read enough of it. But what my understanding was, he was jet lagged a little bit. And so he was actually trying to help himself get back on schedule and doing some extra things. But interesting, I think, to hear you comment that, you know, the way a male responds and a female responds. I mean, that's such a valid point to something. Yeah, love it. Okay, so anything else? Free things we can do to improve our sleep?

Yeah, so those things were, you know, the getting up the same time every day. Yeah, the morning exposure. And then I think this is gonna be well welcomed by your audience is, um, exercise is a huge improver of sleep. So they've done multiple studies. They actually did a meta-analysis of 13 studies showing that exercise was associated with deep sleep. And then there was another study that showed for older adults, moderate exercise increased deep sleep by 40%. It's a lot of deep sleep that we can enjoy by getting moderate exercise. So Exercise also helps with improving sleep efficiency, quality of sleep, total sleep time, and helps us fall asleep faster. So that's something I know you're, you're preaching 24/7 is the exercise. But if you're looking for better sleep, then knowing this about exercise could really just, and, you know, just motivate you even more to do it.

Yeah, and I'm such a big fan of placebo effect, you know, and I think sometimes people will say, well, does that really work, or is that just like placebo. And I'm like, I don't really care, do you? Like, it works. I mean, the point is it worked. But in terms of placebo, what I mean is when we— the notorious study of hotel maids and exercise, right? So to a big group or large pool of hotel maids from 7 different chains, so that it wasn't a one hotel, they, they brought them all together, said, hey, exercise actually is good for heart disease and helps improve your blood pressure and your cholesterol level and optimize your body composition and helps you lose weight. And they kept seeing signs like that, all of them. But half of the group then also was told what you do every day as a hotel maid cleaning 8 rooms qualifies as exercise. You're moving all day. And at the end of this study, it was relatively short— 4, 8 weeks maybe. They brought them all back together and they had measured again. They pre-tested and post-tested. Those that were told what they do already counts lost weight, improved their blood pressure, improved their body composition, right? Simply for knowing, because thinking consciously every day, this is helping me, this is helping me, matters. So if you're going for a walk anyway, but you're thinking, gosh, this is really going to help me sleep better tonight. Then it will.

Yes.

You don't have to change anything about it. It potentially will help things you hadn't even given it credit for helping.

Yeah. And I just, I feel like all of my clients who start some kind of exercise program, whether it's like strength training or, you know, aerobics or whatever, if it's, if they're doing something like 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week, they really do seem to have a lot of improvement. So Um, you know, they don't— you don't have to go really intense with it. They did, they did a study about that as well, showed that moderate exercise was actually the best versus like super intense. Yeah.

And I think, um, back in 2013, the— this was a much more informal survey and poll by, um, National Sleep Federation, I think it was, polled older adults and found 10 minutes of self-selected exercise intensity— I mean, they just, you know, go walk, do whatever— improve their sleep report, the quality of sleep report, by 33%.

Wow. Yeah, that is— that's impressive.

So it's almost like do anything, do anything.

Yeah, anything.

Yep. Love it. What about— I'm going to ask you about a tricky one. What about sex?

Oh, good. I've never been asked about this on a podcast. So, okay, so my understanding about that is that, you know, it can't— you know, men and women have different preferences often for when they want to have sex. So you think— um, yeah, so, you know, I, I don't, I don't think that having sex, you know, at night for women necessarily is a bad thing, but it could be potentially a little bit activating for some people. I think that a lot of men just find a lot of relaxation in that act at night, but I think just, I don't know, for women, I feel like it could be potentially a little bit too stimulating. No pun intended. It might, it might just keep it because it is, it could be a fairly active form and it could potentially just, you know, get their, you know, heart rate a little bit too high, might take their heart rate a little bit too long to come down, and their body temperature— we need to have a lower core body temperature before sleep. So, you know, I think it's just one of those things that's just— your mileage may vary, you know, you have to kind of test it out for yourself to see, you know, what works for you. Um, so that's what— that's really what I've got to say about that.

So good. Okay, always important, right? Yeah. Okay, there's a lot of midlife women who either have been dealing with insomnia for a very long time, maybe their whole life. And I want to say that we tend to do this, we tend to say things like, well, that's just my normal, I've never been a good sleeper. And boy, I do— I hate that sentence. I hate that for you, listener, if you are saying it. Just to make clear, I don't hate you. I hate that you're saying it, because I think the effects of that is every cell in your body is listening to that, and you're reinforcing that you're not, you know. And then you might want to start saying, in the past I haven't been, you know, or I have a history of not up until now. I love those words too, but that means you're changing it, you're doing something about it. Yes. But, you know, whether it's, you know, this— it's prolonged and it's it's here now and maybe amplified because of menopause, or it certainly just strikes during menopause. What are some of the better ways to deal with midlife insomnia? And I think you alluded to your own personal story being a why you wouldn't want to necessarily resort to prescription or even over-the-counter options first.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of women, when they go see their doctor in midlife or are offered a pill. And, you know, I'm, I'm not generally adamantly opposed to sleeping pills, but here's really where their use is best needed. And so it would be in the case of a tragedy, a death, a divorce, job loss. They should not actually technically not be used for more than 4 weeks according to the package insert on a sleeping pill. Yet a lot of physicians, because they're not trained very well in sleep science, I think they get about 2 hours in medical school of sleep science, which is absurd. They don't know a lot about how to help people with their sleep, and they're, they're pressed for time. So it's a lot easier for just to just write a prescription for a sleeping pill. And they are not really, in most cases, taking the time to talk to the patient about the exit strategy from the sleeping pills. So when is— what ends up happening, and I see this in my practice quite a bit, is I see a woman who's been on sleeping pills for 10, 15, 20 years because the doctor has been writing refill after refill. It's a really, it's a really bad situation. So, you know, if you are having problems with sleep and you, you know, I'm not saying don't go to your doctor for, for help with that, but, you know, be questioned, you know, whether or not you really need to take the sleeping pill. Because one other thing that the doctors often don't know is that CBT-I which is cognitive behavioral for insomnia, is actually the recommended first-line treatment for insomnia, according to the American Academy of Physicians. But yet a lot of doctors don't either know who to refer to for CBT-I, or they're really— they don't know how to administer it themselves. So that completely gets lost.

Wow. Yeah, totally concur with that. I'm so glad that you brought that up. And I do want to yet say there is one instance potentially, and I think you very intelligently and respectfully alluded to the same feeling. It's like we're not saying don't ever, um, or, or that it isn't appropriate, but there's a previous episode with one of my longtime clients, Jennifer, and she comes on and we're talking about some successes and why though, um, her success— she lost 100 pounds But it took a while, took over time, and it probably took longer than it needed to. But one of the things that she just was not getting— I mean, she was a great student, she was a great client and complied, did everything. If anything, I had to hold her back from doing what I wanted her to do. And she wasn't sleeping. So she had always struggled with that, or for a very long time in her adult life had. And I said, you know what, we have done everything. We've done all the tricks, you know, with that getting up same time, that going to bed same time. The first 2 hours, last 2 hours, we've got it all nailed. I think it's time for you to ask your doctor what would be the least, you know, viable amount and with the least negative side effects that you could start and test. And sure enough, that was it. And it was, you know, within months she began to lose. And that's, that's what it took to get her to the threshold of losing 100 pounds. So I definitely think, you know, hold it in your back pocket, but do everything first. It's, it's not the, it's not the first step, but it may be a step. Yes. So good. You mentioned, um, what was it that you were tracking your sleep with?

Oh, an Oura Ring. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, how well do you like that versus other things that maybe your clients have used that you have experience in using as trackers? How helpful are they? Can we rely on them?

Yes. So I think, well, I've only used Oura, so I don't have any, you know, comparison data. But I think that with sleep trackers, they can be great for people who are interested in sleep optimization, people who are able to look at a dashboard, look at data, and then make behavioral changes according to the data that they see. So for example, I'll just use myself. You know, in this 3, 3 years that I've been using the Oura Ring, I can clearly see that alcohol and I don't get along very well, especially if I have it too late at night or if I have more than like 1 or 2 glasses. So seeing those, that data the night after I have alcohol and also kind of listening to my body, I'm not feeling as well. That has acted as an impetus to help me reduce, you know, over the past few years, how much I drink. So, that's a great use case for somebody like me who's an optimizer. Then, on the other spectrum, you have people who have full-blown insomnia or a lot of sleep anxiety. And, this is actually most of my clients, they have insomnia. And, for those types of people, I typically don't recommend a sleep tracker because they tend to get really wrapped up in the data. And, I'll hear from them, "Oh my gosh, I got 5% rem sleep or 5% deep sleep, what's going to happen? And they just— their anxiety actually elevates, and their sleep can take a turn for the worse in some cases. So when I'm working with people like that, and if they have a sleep tracker, I'll say, could you kindly put your sleep tracker away for the time that we're working together? And then after their sleep is stabilized, what they can do is bring it out again and test to see how anxious they are about using it. What often ends up working well for people is using the sleep tracker. They can have it on every night, but basically they download the data once a week. So they're getting, you know, the, the trends over time versus like getting caught up in the daily headlines. That way you kind of have a, have a gauge on how your sleep is doing over time.

Got it, got it. For the majority of your clients, I mean, do you feel like they like that data, they like getting it, or do you feel like maybe they give up some of their power to those things?

It's a mix. It really, it really depends. I mean, I had one client in particular that I can recall, she had something called paradoxical insomnia. Which means like you're not really registering that you're asleep. Like you're in a very light stage of sleep, but you think you are awake. And so she would, she would fill out her paper sleep journal for me. And she would put like, I got 2 hours of sleep. It was like 2 or 3 hours of sleep every night. And this was over several weeks. And I just knew, I was like, she would not be able to survive off this little sleep. So for her, I actually made an exception. And I recommended the Oura Ring. And what she found when she used the Oura Ring is she was getting about 5 hours at least of sleep a night, which for you and me would sound abysmal, right? Because that's like too, too little for us. But she was under the assumption that she was getting 2 or 3 hours. So she's going, oh my gosh, I'm actually getting 5 hours. So that data was really empowering for her. But she's not— that wouldn't be like a typical case scenario. For somebody who had insomnia. Most of the people who have insomnia, I think, would probably, you know, in my experience, have more anxiety from using the tracker than not using it.

Yeah, I think that too. I, I often, I kind of question my, my client, and she's become really reliant, I think, on Fitbit. And, you know, she'll say, yeah, I'm in the, I'm in the 90s. And again, I wonder, okay, So should I just let her go on that? Is it placebo? But, you know, as a coach, I'm like, how do you feel? Like, you know, I mean, have we forgotten to ask this silly question about what about you? You know, I mean, it's just about you, honey.

So I'm glad you brought that up because I think really what we need to ask ourselves in the morning before we look at our sleep tracker is like, check in with yourself subjectively. How do you feel How do I feel today? You know, and if you look at your sleep score and, you know, sometimes it can confirm how well you feel and sometimes it could look really different. But really what you want to prioritize is how you're feeling versus what the data tells you.

Let me ask you this. This is really all about me, really. Okay. And, and it's too late because I think we're past this stage anyway. But should I want to ever do anything this ridiculous again in the future? So you know, getting a puppy at 59 when you live alone is very different than getting a puppy when you're 42, when you have a, you know, 10 or 11-year-old also in the house who can be on takeout duty and friends nearby, you know, to help. But, um, you know, that I thought, well, I can do this. I could power through. I'm, I'm in good shape and good health and You know, let me just tell you that after about that first 5 days, I was like, I know why people are depressed. Yes. You know, I mean, because that was the effect, you know. I— and nothing else in my life changed. You know, things are fine, everything is good, and, and I love the dog. I'm glad I did it. I don't have regrets. And yet it was just like there was this mask over life. Yes. What would be your recommendations if you're in a situation like that? And of course, we know there's night workers, or there's, there's women out there who have 15, 16-year-olds who you want to go to sleep at 9 o'clock, and yet you've got to listen for curfew coming in, you know. Yes. How do you suggest we optimize life or sleep in those instances?

Well, I would first off remind yourself that this is a temporary situation. This is not going to be the way your life is indefinitely. A lot of times when we're in situations like that, we tend to catastrophize the next day. And what I really teach my clients is—

You talking to me?

No, not you. But what I teach my clients is something called thought restructuring. So it's, it's basically, you know, you're giving yourself evidence that the thing that you think might happen might not be, might not happen. So for example, this is not your case, but let's just say that you had to report to a boss every day, right? And you were sleep deprived because of the puppy. And you thought, oh my gosh, I'm going to get fired from my job. You know, the reality is that you're probably not going to get fired from your job. The reality is that you're probably just going to be in a very bad mood for a while, right? So it's really kind of talking to yourself in a way that you are giving yourself more realistic expectations of what might happen versus the catastrophe. And then I think secondly, I would remind somebody like you, and you fit in this perfectly, is that sleep is only one aspect of our health. You know, if we're eating well, we're doing, you know, we're managing our stress to the best of our ability, you know, we're exercising, we're socializing. If we're doing, you know, the bulk of those things, that can potentially offset, you know, some of the negative impacts of the sleep. So sleep is a huge important part of our health, but there's so many other pieces of our health that we can, we can focus on if we're not getting the sleep that we need.

So I want to ask you this one. So I usually ask these 3 questions of women when I'm asking specifically about sleep. Do you have trouble getting to sleep, staying asleep, or waking too early? And you know, for a lot of women, this is funny, if you're a morning person, you know, a lot of women will start complaining, why I keep waking up at like 4:30 and, and, you know, or at 5:00. And I'm like, and I mean It's time to get up. Okay, you know, like, that's a problem, you know. And, and I'm realizing I have to keep listening really carefully to realize they think that's too soon. And but I think we can all agree, 2 and 3 AM, you know, having those and not being able to get back to sleep, but not knowing why you woke up. Yes. What's, what's your answer to that? Because it feels like a mystery to a lot of women.

Yeah, it's a huge mystery. This is probably my number one client complaint with sleep is 2 or 3 AM wake-ups. And there's a lot to say on it. But what I will say is that it's totally normal to have wake-ups throughout the night in the middle of the night. A healthy adult has probably a dozen. Unfortunately, and I hate to say this, but as we get older, we have more wake-ups. That's just sort of the way we're wired. Now, as far as what could be the cause of wake-ups, this is a whole battery of things that we could go over. But there are a few things you could consider. You could consider low blood sugar creating a cortisol and adrenaline spike that wakes you up. There's also being overheated or potentially a hot flash. I think you'd know for sure though if you had a hot flash. But some people wake up overheated, but they're not sure why they've woken up. And then the last— the third main reason that I really want to mention is breathing episodes. So, sleep apnea is like a huge issue with postmenopausal women. In fact, about when we look at sleep apnea as a whole on the population, we think of men, we think of overweight men in their, you know, 50s as the typical sleep apnea patient. But, when women hit midlife, our rates of sleep apnea basically become matched to those of men. So, we have it in equal rates in midlife, and 90% of women who have sleep apnea go undiagnosed. So I'm finding a lot of my clients recently are having sleep apnea episodes, breathing interruptions during their sleep, which is causing those wake-ups. So if you have a lot of them, if you have a lot of the wake-ups, that could be a cause for getting a sleep study. If you're waking up with a headache, if you feel very sleepy during the day even though you've gotten 7 or 8 hours. If you feel depressed, those are, you know, some signs that you should, that you should get a sleep study. And I actually saw a post from somebody on Instagram the other day. I cannot remember who it was, but somebody respectable. They said that they felt a sleep study should be like a mandatory health screening for all midlife people. And I really agree because it's getting missed so much. And No amount of sleep hygiene or exercise can prevent that, the wake-ups, if you're not getting that sleep apnea dealt with.

Truth. Yeah, I think I just heard something about like more women than men at a certain point, we almost surpass it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Crazy.

Yeah, crazy. This has all been so rich. I mean, it's— we've talked slept sleep before, but the unique angles and I think the personal story and you sharing— so I appreciate that— um, so very valuable. So where can listeners come and find you and stalk Morgan Adams?

Come stalk me. I'm happy to be stalked. My website is morganadamswellness.com. Um, you can find, um, there a free mini course called Sleep Reset Solution that you can watch. It helps you with getting your morning and evening routines dialed in. It's a great first step if you're having sleep issues. And then I'm also on Instagram. My handle is morganadams.wellness, and I do quite a bit of sleep-related content there. And you can always pop in my DMs, message me. I will, I will definitely reach back out to you and say hi.

So yeah, don't be a stranger. Fantastic. It's been so good. So listeners, you may have another question, but I think we covered a lot of ground here. So on this Pillow Talk episode, hope you enjoyed it. But if you do have comments, I always love to hear from you. And whether you've seen this post about the podcast in Facebook or Instagram, DM me, message me, and let me know. And you can see the show notes and all the links to connect with Morgan at Flipping flipping50.com/how-to-get-your-best-sleep. And what are you waiting for? Let's start flipping 50 today.