Women's Health Researcher Abbie Smith-Ryan on Protein & Exercise for Longevity

Hey, welcome back to those of you who are OGs here, and welcome to those of you who are here for the very first time. This is a huge episode for me. This is somebody I've been wanting to have on for actually probably been years, but finally reached out and been pursuing her. She's a busy woman, and I had a move in the mix of this, but this is Abby Smith Ryan. And she is really behind the scenes as a woman in midlife, which I absolutely love. She's doing the research, she's in the lab, she's looking at things going on with midlife women— eating before, not eating before, eating before versus eating after, high intensity versus middle intensity resistance training, looking at volume, all of the things. This woman has published over 200 journals and What we're going to do is dive into some of that and her expertise and her insight on what has been and what can be. You're going to love it. So as I mentioned, this episode features Dr. Abby Smith Ryan, who is a researcher, and I don't often read an entire bio anymore, but in this case, I want to honor her and all that she's done. And so I want you to pay close attention. She is a professor in the Department of Exercise and Sports Science where she serves and leads an innovation— innovative lab focused on research on body composition, metabolism, sport nutrition, and exercise performance with special attention to women across the lifespan. Dr. Smith-Ryan contributes to the current body of scientific literature with over— correct me— 220 peer-reviewed manuscripts, a number of scholastic books and chapters, and international and national presentations. She's a leader in the field and has been recognized by the National Strength and Conditioning Association as the Outstanding Sports Scientist of the Year— that was in '22— Young Investigator of the Year, and Nutrition Researcher of the Year. Dr. Smith-Ryan has a passion for improving the health and quality of others through evidence-based research. And as a former collegiate athlete and mom of two young kids, Abby has a passion for translating exercise and nutrition strategies to optimize health and quality of life. And we talk a great deal about this. You will hear the passion she has for taking the actual primary research, meaning she's in the lab, she's working with the subjects who often are you and I, but her real goal is to disseminate that information and take science into practical application for your workout today, tomorrow, or next week. And that is really where we begin to change lives— yours, mine, your daughter's, and your daughter-in-law's. I think you're going to love this, and I hope you let me know it so we can reach her and get her to come back. Welcome Abby Smith Ryan. Thank you so much for being here.

Ah, thanks so much for the invitation. I'm really excited to chat with you today.

Well, yeah, and we should let everybody know that I was so excited to find that, oh my gosh, you have an Iowa phone number. I'm like, are you from Iowa?

I know we have an Iowa connection and I think Iowa people are the best. So it's going to make today even better.

So good. All right, well, I want to dive right in and respect your time because you are at the forefront. And so if you need to duck into a lab and do some important research for those of us that need to, to be in the know about how much protein we should be eating and the effect on it, you can get there. But I first want to just touch base with everybody who's listening who might be meeting you for the first time. You've published more than 200 studies. I mean, You've not been slacking at all. And you're also living it as a midlife woman, balancing science, work, family. So I'm going to just tap into you. How has your personal experience at this stage of life made you question or reinterpret your own research? Has it had an impact?

Such a good question. So interestingly, I started studying perimenopause probably about 8 years ago. So well before I really knew what it was or thought about it. And now as I find myself in my early 40s, I'm so grateful. And it was almost like both worlds collided without me really knowing of as I, you know, was experiencing symptoms and went to healthcare providers and no one had answers. And then I lined it up with the data and I was like, wait a second here. But it's only motivated me more because It's almost like if I have the knowledge and the tools and it's still so hard for me to get to where I want to be or know what's happening, there's something wrong. And so I know we share this passion of like, how do we use those resources to really empower women? And then at the same time, part of why I've stayed in academia is because now I can then have that question and continue to answer it. And at this phase of my career, spend a little bit more time on that translation. Like, yes, I have lots of pubs, but no one reads them. How do we get it to a way that the research is also informing some practical applications, which is really where my passion lies.

Which, which we're grateful for. So the reason you're here. Yeah. Awesome. So let's talk a little bit about so many of our women are in perimenopause, but I would say we're also seeing a great deal of growth in our community and women post-menopause who are realizing now, especially with the FDA changes and hormones and all of the— wait a minute, nobody gave me these options kind of feeling. They're, they're a little miffed, and, and yet I think also optimistic about— wait, there's still things I can do. There's research that has proven that post-menopausal women may actually need more volume to change body composition compared to a woman who's pre- or perimenopausal. First of all, why is that? And maybe we should even back up one step and for a listener define volume. But why would that be and what's going on? And how would we juggle the need for more volume with potentially the need for more recovery?

Yeah, I mean, so many nuances to consider. And I, I think the first thing I'll say is that Right now, every woman should know that they can change body composition regardless of where they're at, meaning we can build muscle no matter what age we're at.

Mic drop. Thank you.

Which I think is empowering. I feel like we're in this space where it's a little bit confusing on what to believe. And the positive side of me says that's because there is no single way of like, there's lots of ways to do it. But I also think that as a woman, especially in different age brackets, we need to think about the psychosocial components and time and recovery and joints and those individual differences that maybe aren't documented in the literature. And so when we look at women as they age, particularly into postmenopause, and this is true for men too, but our larger motor units, our larger muscle fibers, they tend to take more characteristics of our Type 1, more endurance type of fibers. And so we need to load them and have a higher load to be able to kind of continue to stimulate that, that motor unit and that muscle fiber, which can come from more volume. And then the best way I would describe volume would be a combination of load and sets and reps. And that can look very different. But I think the thing that— and I know you and I have the same messaging of, you know, I was always told to be little and thin and do less. But right now what we know is that to build muscle, you have to be fueled and you have to stimulate that in a way that you're not used to. And we can get there with volume. So kind of working each muscle group, making sure we're getting enough sets and reps, but also at a load that's something higher than we're used to.

Yeah, so glad. And you pulled in so much there. I'm going to come back and tap into recovery. And you also mentioned something that I'm grateful for, which is we've got lots of good science, we have more and more of it emerging, and yet when, like, I'm in the practical field with a group of women, it's like, you know, when a woman says, this isn't working for me, right? We have to believe her. Like, she's the thumbprint, and we're all slightly different. And that's both the beauty and the beast of serving, you know, collectively all women. But speaking to recovery, and, and let me preface it with saying this. I've realized that having a community for over 12 years, it, it has become— it's not if, it's when a midlife or older woman is hit with life, a caregiver, or whatever might be the instance in her life in the moment, there is going to be some— and I know not everybody loves this adrenal fatigue term or HPA access dysfunction— there's going to be a moment where doing what you would have an healthy, energetic women do is just too much, and she needs more recovery, or she needs less stimulus, or maybe both. Speak into recovery and how do we juggle that and manage it.

I mean, if anything, as a researcher, my immediate response is that's the one area we have such little data in, and is in recovery, especially in females, because it's very much based in males. And I would also say that we're seeing that early and earlier and earlier, and I'll come back to that point. But when we look at recovery, and this is totally a biased response, and I think you should push back on it, is obviously most of the women that I'm working with, and I would imagine you're working with, they don't want to be told to stop exercising and sleep more. I mean, we all wish that we could do all the things. And so when I look at tools, a lot of it comes down to fueling. That doesn't mean that's the fix for it all. But what I have found and what the research shows is that if we can be appropriately fueled, it does really accelerate recovery. And so when we look at recovery and most women, based on all the things we have been taught about, you know, fasted exercise or more volume or just making sure when we finish a workout, we're totally spent. Some of that can be met by adequately fueling and accelerate recovery. The other element that's very rooted in a lot of our research is it's not always about volume, it's about intensity. And so with recovery, if we can do less volume, higher intensity, and I know we just talked about high volume and weights, but I'm also thinking like high intensity interval training is where we spent a lot of time where you still get that benefit, but it's also better on your body because it's not as much load and that repetitive motion, which can ultimately facilitate some recovery.

Yeah, gosh, I love that. And I think for everybody, we could probably reiterate everything you just said like 5 times over and just to drive it home so that everybody understands it. But I think that whole idea of using intensity. And there's so many mixed messages. This is where I think women get confused, and I know that it is bothersome to you as well, is women are sitting in the middle of the room spinning, not doing anything, because they can't decide. Well, they said this and she says this, and we're using terms like, well, social media told me to do this. I'm like, social media doesn't have a mother. Cut it out. But Speak into that again about, you know, less is more and potentially just like hit it and quit it and get in a good workout. But we've been told, you know, 45 minutes or an hour, or maybe it's not worth our time, and we've got that still lodged in here we need to get out.

Yeah, I think some of it too is we do know that there's brain differences between males and females, but I— and I know for me I love that feeling. And it's not just adrenaline, but you get a lot of really good hormones released when you do the 45 minutes to an hour. And you get some of that with that high-intensity training. But sometimes you have to convince yourself of like, oh, I'm getting the same, if not better, benefits. And so what I like to say is exercise is great, all exercise, regardless of what you do. But if you really want to have a quick benefit or you don't have— you have limited time Or you do want that burst of energy without, you know, totally emptying everything you've got. That— there's a lot of science, not just ours, on increasing intensity. And that's not only important for muscle, but also for our cardiovascular health, which is ultimately a bigger part of the conversation that we should be having for women as they age. It's muscle, yes, but also heart health and all of the things that come along with it. And And why wouldn't you want the same benefit for a quarter of the time, if we put it that way?

Yeah, love that. Let's talk about high intensity and stress, because I think this is like a baffling thing, and it seems to be like there's a— but there's this side and then there's that side. And, you know, there's this myth somewhere that high intensity interval training is bad because it causes too much stress versus— so maybe we can break that down and unpack it? Where did that belief get started, and where might we be going wrong and kind of getting the wrong impression?

Yeah, that's a good question. Honestly, I don't know where it started, uh, but I think some of it comes from— and there is, there is one specific paper I have in mind that if you are doing interval training correctly and you're doing it, let's say, 5 days a week, that will cause some negative implications on recovery hormones, etc. But you also, if you're doing it correctly, you shouldn't be doing it every day. That's the beauty. So like 2 to 3 times a week causes the best stress and the best adaptation with much less time. And if you compare the stress of that long duration repetitive exercise versus the short intensity, it's similar when you match the volume. So I don't know where it started, but it's very— with anything, more more of a good thing is not always better. And that's the message I would say with high-intensity training, which is why it's so great a couple times a week. As little as one session of HIIT per week has significant improvements in not only cardiovascular health but glucose regulation, um, that you don't want to do that 5 days a week.

Yeah, amen. Good. Come back to— come back to walking. So like really coming down to the bottom, you and lower level movement is almost how I would describe that, as opposed to necessarily exercise. If you're just going out on a self-selected walk, you're not— I'm not going to speed, I'm not going to heart rate, I'm not trying to do a certain distance in this, I'm just going— there is this floating around that, and, and published in books, that walking burns more fat. Please, thank you, thank you for that little laugh. First of all, I would love for you to speak speak into this because when I come up against that, I am like, feel compelled to explain percent of fat for fuel versus total fat burning and what is the difference. Talk to this. As a brand new homeowner of an old home, this is one of my favorite sponsors. Did you know that 3 out of 4 US homes have toxic chemicals in their tap water? Even though contaminated water looks clear, it could put you at risk for devastating health health concerns, including fatigue, hormone disruption, cognitive decline, even cancer. Surprisingly, standard fridge and pitcher filters do little to remove contaminants, and bottled water contains microplastics. So what's the solution? Introducing AquaTru. It's the countertop water purifier tested and certified to remove 84 contaminants, including chlorine, lead, forever chemicals, and microplastics. Its patented 4-stage reverse Osmosis system goes way beyond ordinary filters for pure, healthy water you can trust. No plumbing, no installation. AquaTru's been featured in Business Insider, Popular Science, and named best countertop water filter by Good Housekeeping. Join 98% of customers who say their drinking water is cleaner, safer, and healthier. Go to aquatru.com now for 20% off your purifier using promo code FLIPPING50. AquaTru even comes with a 30-day best-tasting water guarantee. That's aquatru.com, A-Q-U-A-T-R-U dot com, promo code FLIPPING50.

Well, my first thought would be, and, and maybe I contribute to this myth of, um, like when we think about fat burning, people always think fat loss. And that's not the case. And so it does— when I think of fat burning versus carbohydrate burning, we should also think about what am I feeding myself. So I just want to set the frame there. And then when we look at low-intensity exercise like walking, which is so incredibly beneficial, like I love the benefits of a walk if you think about blood flow and fresh air and all the things, but when we think about low intensity, yes, you rely on fat for fuel because we have plenty of oxygen available, but you're not burning the same amount of calories. So what I always say is if we were to compare walking a mile versus running a mile, if I were to run a mile, I would be burning more carbohydrate, but as a percentage, I'm gonna be burning more fuel because I'm burning more calories.

Mm-hmm.

And so if we are looking at overall adaptation, increasing intensity, yes, you burn carbohydrate, but the other thing that doesn't get talked about is what happens after exercise. And there's more fat burning up to 24 hours after that higher intensity load. So it really is a bigger bang for your buck. And then I should say too, it's not always fat loss, but if I'm able to burn fat for fuel, then I'm more metabolically flexible and it allows me to kind of store and regulate my glucose a little bit better. So over time, it can help with some of that fat storage, um, and, and recovery components.

Beautifully said. Yeah, so very helpful. Speak into this, continue with this metabolic flexibility, metabolic inflexibility, because I think that term is used a lot. I think every listener here has heard it. They've probably heard me say it, but I'm not sure that every listener could turn to her best friend and explain it. And that's what I would really love by the end of the show, that somebody could do that. Could you, could you just unpack it again and really define what does that mean?

Absolutely. So one, you can't know if you're metabolically flexible without measuring it. So this is something we measure in the lab, but the best way I would describe it is, let's say at rest here, uh, we're meant to burn mostly fat. And then if I went to do some exercise as a female, moderate intensity, I'm going to burn some carbs and some fat, and that's normal. But let's say I had a huge pancake meal or pasta meal before I went to exercise. Then I have carbohydrates in my blood and I'm going to utilize carbohydrates more than fat, and I'm going to use what I just fed my body. But what we are seeing is in midlife, regardless of what you're eating acutely, perimenopause often is associated with more metabolic inflexibility. And what that means, particularly particularly in moderate-intensity exercise. So that means then when I'm doing moderate-intensity exercise, I'm burning more carbohydrate when I should be burning more fat. And what that impacts then is I'm going to deplete carbohydrate more quickly, which can result in fatigue. And then I'm going to have more fat stores that I'm not using effectively, which is a really, you know, good fuel use around exercise. So then I think the more important conversation is, well, what do we do about it? And a lot of times I find women are metabolically inflexible because they're eating a lot of carbohydrate or carbohydrate kind of consistently throughout the day. And that's not because they're only eating carbohydrate. But what I see is like, oh, I'm going to skip a meal and then I'm going to grab this banana or I'm going to have this little snack and just carbs are easy to grab. And so then your body's going to use that. On the reverse, if we eat a bit more protein, which is very thermogenic, that doesn't mean only eat protein, but if we start to pair it and we, we have that base of protein at each meal and potentially before exercise, our body will use those amino acids and, and, you know, fat and make us more metabolically flexible over time. And, and so I think some of that is where my passion lies of like, we're not going to change everyone's whole life. But if we can make some tweaks and then help our metabolism, ultimately it will give us more energy and facilitate recovery.

Beautiful. And I want to point out, you've done some studies that also showed having some protein prior to workout has basically helped spare the muscle. So we preserve the muscle, we're not going to tap into that and risk loss of muscle or, or breaking it down. Talk a little bit more about that research. And is there anything more that we still have to answer? Is there more research coming?

Yeah. So this is funny. It's been kind of a contentious topic, which I think is a bit funny when we look at nutrient timing around exercise. And the reason that we started this is really looking at when you think about either most women, we're not eating before we train or we're having some sort of carbohydrate. That's what we were taught. And it's easy to digest. And so we did an initial study several years ago, and it really showed that protein not only stimulated energy expenditure, but also that, that kind of fat oxidation after training. So then we did that over time, like what happens when you combine it with consistent resistance training in young women? And I mean, basically, pre-exercise and post-exercise fueling allowed for greater volume, greater muscle. And a little bit better advantage from pre. And that little advantage was, you know, people say wasn't statistically significant, but it was definitely meaningful for someone that's trying to optimize body composition. And so now we've taken that and put it into midlife. And it does continue to say, like, if we use a little bit of protein, so I usually we're looking at 90 calories, a scoop of protein powder, or let's say it's a Greek yogurt or some amino acids. It seems to increase exercise volume. So you'll feel better when you're training. And indirectly, it will also help with, you know, kind of that muscle protein turnover, greater lean body mass over time, less soreness, and potentially better recovery. Now, should you eat after? Like, you can also do that. But it's almost like the messages that we were taught, as I was taught, is of course you wouldn't eat before. Why would you? And this is, uh, not against going against the norm, but providing evidence to say it actually might be more beneficial to have that fuel ahead of time.

And would you say— I mean, or can you— whether I'm asking you to say it because you've researched it or because you just have a hypothesis about it— that the older a woman is, the more postmenopausal, that is probably even more true?

Yeah, I think age and, like, physiological age, training age, and how much time you're working out. Like, if I am trying to get the most benefit of my training and I don't train very often, you want to make them take— make the most of that training session. Whereas, you know, if you are someone that trains every day and you're just trying to maintain, like, it's not going to make or break you, but it's— it really does start to help if you're having a hard time recovering or you're not seeing changes or you're tired, I would go and say, what are the tools in your toolbox that you can continue to tweak? And if you're not eating before exercise, that would be where I would start.

Yeah, amen. Talk about amount. So you talked a little bit about consuming even essential amino acids versus, you know, like a whole food like Greek yogurt or something else. Is there a pro or con as you see it?

So it all— like, I love whole food, and I think we should all eat more whole foods, especially our women. And when you eat a whole protein source or whole complex carbohydrate, you're going to burn more calories to break that down. The problem is our gut does change as we age, and it's— I can't pound a chicken breast before I go train. And so to me, that's where the supplements come in. If you are someone that can have a high-quality meal within 30 minutes to an hour of your workout, do that. Absolutely. I find, and part of why I continue to research some dietary supplements, is like, I want to know which ones work and which one actually help. And I find that the amino acids or a whey protein, it just allows us to elevate that amino acid profile in between meals or, you know, when we're on the go or need to fit in a training session and I'm not fueled appropriately.

So helpful. I want to ask you about whey protein. So in your studies, because a lot of our community will find that dairy is not tolerated very well, and that's sad, it's sad because, you know, whey is so rapidly absorbed, it's so easily and readily available. What have you found in that area, or ways to get over it, through it, or around it?

Yeah, I mean, so we know that whey is one of the highest quality proteins. I think the science is definitely elevating that. There's some other options, like for instance, if you're going to do a plant-based protein, you just need to do more of it. And then, you know, we, we have often evaluated whey protein, but within the last, I would say about 5 years, essential amino acids are now available in like an oral form. It used to be where you had to inject them. And the essential amino acids are— do show to be more absorbable more quickly. But whey is so absorbable there. It's just another option that isn't— doesn't have lactose. The other thing that I'm seeing in the kind of as technology improves is there's many whey isolates that's filtered all of that lactose out and in more of a clear version. And so I think technology is catching up, especially most women are more sensitive to those gut changes, those artificial sweeteners, those lactose. So I think you have to just try. But those amino acids is another good option that, that often doesn't hit that or aggravate the GI.

Are you in the camp of 1 gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight, or where do you stand on that?

I mean, I like that as a goal because it's easy math and you can say, okay, like if I'm 150 pounds, I'm going to shoot for about 150 grams of protein. And if I don't get there, I'm like, I'm close. But I would say that's a good starting point. And then ultimately it is often helpful to have some sort of measurement of lean mass or body composition to tweak that. So for instance, I would— this, you go higher or lower depending on my goal. If my goal is to, you know, get leaner and increase lean body mass, then I might need to increase that based on caloric requirements. Or if I'm doing less exercise and I don't need as many calories, I might go lower than that. There's so many things to consider, but that's like a good middle of the road— not guess, but like target.

Yeah. And I want to restate what you just said because for a listener, if you Don't replay this. You'll miss this. But if you want to get leaner, you actually need more.

Yes. It's not less concept, right?

Yeah. Right. It is the opposite of— we're still— they could be here logically nodding and then facing a plate. It's like, no, wait, no, wait. I have 40 years of other in my head I have to deal with.

Yeah, well, let's dial into that a second because I actually am so inspired by your story. And when I think about it, I'm like, yeah, I, I, when, when I think and help people with weight loss, it's often less exercise and more food. And it's not more chips and bars and protein shakes. It's prioritizing you as a person and eating whole, high-quality foods.. And then as we dial that in, as if, if you are kind of trying to get that hypocaloric or kind of that caloric imbalance, which you need for weight loss, but we increase that protein, not only does it help us keep full, it burns more calories by just eating. And so all that to being said of like a lot of times with weight loss, it is having 3 to 4 whole meals and snacks and really prioritizing food, which is a good reminder of like then you know that that's what you're— it's fueling yourself, which fuels everything else.

So glad you capped that. I want to ask you this too. So in some— and I would say some, I'm gonna have to default to one, and I can't tell you the journal, okay? But, but recently I have read, you know, protein is important for older adults, but also for strength and for mass both also was the total micronutrient level, meaning we need a diverse, a number of foods on our plate. We need a lot of colors in addition to that protein. Can you talk to that a little bit? Because, you know, my guess is that you've seen this too over time, and maybe you've measured it in the lab with people coming in. More women, I think, are undereating than overeating.

100%. And we actually have an interesting study that we're starting in— I think some of it is on the heels of Title IX, where we now have this much more active group of women going into perimenopause. Yay! Yeah, I know, which is great. But the interesting thing is that they're increasing exercise, but they're underfueled. And so they're actually experiencing perimenopause symptoms earlier when in reality it's more relative energy deficiency. And so it's a group we really need to help. And by doing that, like, it's not just protein. And I think now most people are very protein-centric, or at least have heard that message. Yeah, but it absolutely is whole foods.

It's—

and I think one of the things that is gaining a little bit of attention that so, so important more for women is fiber. And so when I think about and when I'm working with our subjects and saying, here is a good takeaway, here's what to focus your meals on, I say, you know, 30 grams of high-quality complete proteins plus a vegetable and a fruit at each meal, like start there. That doesn't mean don't add your rice or your bread. Carbohydrates are really important too. But that fiber we know impacts So many things. And there is some really good data around food quality and micronutrients, and that is where some of that sex difference comes. So I know you didn't ask this question, but I think it's really important. Magnesium literature right now is so, so interesting and how much estrogen impacts our ability to absorb and uptake magnesium. And so that's just one mineral that I would pay close attention to through diet, and then some of the impacts as we age.

Yeah, so true. I mean, what is that statistic, like 70 to 80% of us are probably insufficient in magnesium?

I don't know the statistic, but I would believe it.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so if you could say, like one piece of information that you wish every woman in midlife understood, what would it be?

Gosh, that's a big question.

I think it is.

First response would be, uh, like, I mean, harness yourself. Like, I have such a hard time, and I think women— there's good data on— we take care of everyone else and we kind of prioritize them, but it takes our own selves to prioritize our, our future and our health. And when we stop and really look and feel our bodies, we're our own best advocates, meaning if you start to pay attention, you know, when you don't feel the same, when things change, when things are changing, and you begin to know like your body's own science experiment. Like as you eat more protein or less or change your workouts, you can be your own best advocate as you do that to help us feel better versus relying on, you know, as healthcare catches up and research catches up. It's like the only sample that matters is you and use those tools to really advocate for yourself.

Beautiful. You mentioned that, or commented on the fact that maybe recovery is an area where there's a gap in. What's on the horizon for you personally, or with colleagues that you're seeing doing research, particularly for women in midlife? What's coming and what's needed?

So many things coming, um, and I'll give you a little insight. We will be sharing some data specifically about about kind of fasted versus protein before intervals in perimenopause on fat metabolism and energy expenditure to try and shore that up in midlife. We also have one of the first kind of heavy progressive resistance training in perimenopause to really start to highlight of like, we know exercise works, but I want to know what's the minimum effective dose. And I want to start to see of like, let's actually give numbers of like, hey, these midlife women can put on muscle. And it's incredible what happens when you teach a woman that they can leg press and bench press hundreds of pounds. They can do anything when you show them what it feels like. And so that's coming. And then in reality, if we talk— and this hasn't come up a lot, but the use of GLP-1s are everywhere. And I do often think about the women that are doing all the things and still can't lose weight, but it seems like our options are then to do a GLP-1 and feel awful. And so what we're trying to combine is what if we take GLP-1s in our midlife women and exercise and nutrition and behavioral support and try to marry the two? So it's a much more holistic lifestyle that then really helps women feel better and helps with the inflammation and some of those underlying things. So I, So to me, that's on the horizon. And then those are the key things. We have so many things, but really trying to take research and translate it into things that people can use every day.

So great. You mentioned that women are coming into kind of their 40s or into perimenopause already more active. And so maybe we'll have an edge with the, caveat that they're maybe not fueling that activity. What do you think will be true of women who are, you know, in their 20s, their 30s? You know, as we look at— we're talking out loud about menopause in mixed partnerships or mixed rooms. It's, it's not taboo anymore. But what do you think will be true, and how, how will things change in the future?

Uh, it gives me goosebumps because when you think about it, um, I mean, I think about so many women now in their 40s that are struggling, not physically but also mentally, and they don't know where to go, or their partners don't know or don't understand. And I think the more we have the conversation, it's easier to take a step back and like, oh, they really need help, or this is physiological, it's not just psychological, they're connected. And I think the other thing is we have a much more strong is the new skinny approach. And if we have more muscle and stronger bones going into midlife, I mean, that dramatically improves longevity and just overall health and quality of life. And so it has so much impact on our, you know, on our society and longevity and all the things. So it's very exciting. And then as a mom, I think about how that very much impacts impacts the, the next generation. Now I have two little boys, but you know, I'm around little girls and it's just that different mindset I can see in those conversations that will have such a positive impact versus what we grew up with of like the feeling small and being less. And now we can set them up with better skills.

What do you think of when you think of yourself at 85? What does that look like?

Oh goodness. Um, well, one thing I think about often, which does inspire my high-intensity work, is like, I was a distance runner. I love running. Um, the downside of exercise is that you likely are going to have to have some sort of joint replacement. And so in my 40s now, I'm much smarter of like, if there's a pain or, you know, there's things I start to change versus muscling through it. And so I really have had and think about longevity versus like, what does that look like? I do feel like 20s and 30s, you just kind of power through, and then now a little bit more thoughtful on what are the goals and how do we do it smarter. And just a little funny comment, like, as a researcher, and I'm sure you do this too, it's so cool to track your body. And I often think about like, okay, I'm doing a quarter of what I used to do, and I'm leaner, and I'm, you know, I'm better. And so it, it is like science on my side. And that my team always laughs of like, how are you leaner than we are? And how are you doing all these things when you're juggling all the things? And I'm like, you have to use science. And so I just think about the more we use, you can implement right away. And I hope to be doing that at 80. And you inspire me. I want to be like you when I get in my 50s and 60s, you know.

And mine too was accidentally, like life got in the way. And so, you know, I like to say that it saved me. Like, I would have kept exercising for hours a day. And now I think, I wonder what I really could have felt like at 30 when I thought teaching 2 to 4 exercise classes a day was a good idea. You know, I, I, my energy level could have been very different. And so, yeah, it's, it's amazing to think about about the things that the universe throws to you.

So, and look at you helping all the people. So I inspire to figure out how to do that as I continue through my career. So thank you for, for doing that for all of us.

You are doing it. You are. It takes a village.

So here we are, right?

Yeah. So you're back there doing it all at base level and base camp, and now we're letting everybody know about it. So where can they learn more about you? Follow you online, learn about what research you're up to next?

So this is a goal, which maybe I, I pick your brain. I am hopefully starting a newsletter in the new year to help get some of that science out more quickly. I mean, right now it's mostly in journals, and then I, I do put a little bit on social media, on Instagram. I'm not great at it. So I do have a website that you can sign up for the newsletter, and my hope is to get that because science takes takes so long. So, um, asmithryan.com is my website.

Fantastic. Are you doing a lot of public speaking conferences as well?

Yeah, I mean, I love public speaking, but it goes back to that— how do you, how do you hit the women that matter? Like, how— the women that live every day. Um, and so I do podcasts of like leverage, you know, people's networks to— yeah, um, it's hard to do good science and translate it in the scientific community but also to the people that matter. So I'm open for all the ideas and, and ways to do that, but hopefully we'll do more of that as we move forward. Excellent.

So, well, so we're always happy to host you and give you a platform, so can't wait to have you back. And again, thank you so much for your time.

Ah, thank you, and to all your listeners. It's really, uh, love to see this community and, and be a part of it. So thanks for having me.