Your Glucose Levels in Menopause with the Glucose Goddess

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What are you waiting for? Good night. What if you could change just one thing, just one thing today, and it wasn't taking anything out of the habits that you normally have around your breakfast, your lunch, your dinner, or your snacks, and it could improve your weight, your belly fat, improve any symptoms you might be experiencing due to menopause? Well, stay tuned. Your glucose levels in menopause could be responsible for your mood swings, your brain fog, hot flashes, and if you're lucky enough not to have those but you haven't escaped the weight or belly fat gain, stay tuned. On this episode, I talk with none other than the Glucose Goddess herself about exactly what you can do. Spoiler alert: you have something in your kitchen or pantry shelf right now that could reduce your blood sugar levels right now and for the rest of the day. My guest today is Jessie Inchauspé. She is a French biochemist and New York Times bestselling author. She's on a mission to translate cutting-edge science into easy tips to help people improve their physical and mental health in her books Glucose Revolution and the Glucose Goddess Method, which sold over 1 million copies worldwide in 40 languages. You think we're interested in this? She shares her startling discovery about the essential role of blood sugar in every aspect of our lives and the surprising hacks to optimize it. Jessie is the founder of the popular Instagram account Glucose Goddess, where she teaches over 3 million people about transformative food habits. She holds a Bachelor of Science in mathematics from King's College London and a Master of Science in biochemistry from Georgetown University. I cannot wait to dive into this episode, so let's do it. I'm Debra Atkinson. You're listening to Flipping 50. I started this podcast over a decade ago to answer questions about fitness in menopause and beyond before you knew to ask them. The goal: to help accelerate your results with science and the practical application of proven protocols while living your best life. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman. And it's not just about you, but the 3 generations that you influence. My unique 40-year career, including being a university senior lecturer in kinesiology, an industry subject matter expert, and an international speaker, to founder of the first and the only exclusively made for menopause and beyond fitness membership in the world. Every week I interview experts behind the scenes and the science of optimal hormone balancing, fitness, and longevity, and share answers to our community's questions so you can have the vitality and the energy that you want, need, and deserve. Jessie, thank you so much for being here.

Hi, Debra, I'm so happy to be here with you.

We are so excited about this. We are talking incessantly, I would say, in our community, potentially about belly fat, about inflammation, about blood sugar levels. And, and yet I also know we're talking to a lot of women who are listening who are just feeling like that's the tip of the iceberg and maybe who've been conditioned to take other steps first for decades, and this almost, in the science you've made so simple, feels too easy. So for all of you listening who think it has to be hard, hold on to your, your hat and buckle your seatbelt because we just may flip your world by the time we're done.

Love it.

So the books, obviously, things that I hope every listener picks up. So just to add to your bookshelf, everyone, you heard it, The Glucose Revolution and Glucose Got Goddess Method. Jessie, at what point in your life did you realize blood sugar was going—

I really did not think this would be my work. It came out of a personal health journey. So at the young age of 19, I had a horrible accident. I jumped off a waterfall and broke my spine. That led to very intense surgery, lots of physical pain, and then lots of mental health issues. Depression, anxiety, dissociation, panic attacks. My world just got really dark real fast. And that led me to understand that if you don't have your health, you really don't have much. And so at that very young age, I went on a sort of, you know, a mythical quest to try to get my health back. And I was super confused, super lost, had no idea where to start. I felt like I was the only person in the world experiencing what I was experiencing. Anyway, it was dark for a long time. But what I did is I went to grad school to study biochemistry because I thought maybe that's going to help me understand the body. And it kind of did, but not really. And then I thought, okay, maybe genetics will be the place to look. So I went to work in Silicon Valley in a genetics company for 5 years. It did not help at all. Like, your DNA is not good at telling you what to do to feel better. It's kind of useless in that respect. But And, you know, I believe so much about the universe guiding us. And while I was working in Silicon Valley, I had the opportunity really randomly to put on a glucose monitor as part of a research study that the company was running. And they sent an email saying like, hey, who wants to try a glucose monitor? And instantly my whole soul was like, yes, me. So I volunteered and I started wearing this little device on the back of my arms. These are devices that are intended for people with diabetes. They're a medical device. They send in real time your blood sugar levels to your phone. So you see, you know, as you're eating and living, you see your blood sugar levels go up and down and up and down. You see a pattern on your phone screen. And I started noticing almost 10 years after my accident and all my mental health issues that the days when my blood sugar levels were steady, my mental health was better. And the days in which my blood sugar levels were super erratic— spike, drop, spike, drop— my mental health was worse. And to tell you the level of, you know, the light bulb that goes off above your head in the cartoons, like, that was me. I was sitting on my couch and I was like, hold on a minute. Wait a minute. What's happening here? Are you telling me that I could— I have found a first clue into understanding what I needed to do to feel better. And so at that moment, the doors opened, you know, really wide, and I just dove into this world, and I learned so many crazy things that apply to all of us.

Now, how long ago was that?

So this was in 2018, so not too long ago.

Not too long ago, and yet early. So, so our community, a certain small percentage, are using glucose monitors regularly. We create groups, and so that I can actually peek in and suggest, here's a change. But I think it's still fairly new, and, you know, I think people are thinking, well, I don't need that because I don't have diabetes. And, and what is your response to that? Because I've heard it, but I think this is worth hearing again.

Well, I actually might surprise you because I don't think everybody needs to wear a glucose monitor. I think that everybody needs to learn about glucose and how to balance it, but that doesn't have to be through the vehicle of a monitor. You can actually apply all the science that I share and just feel better. You'll see your cravings dissipate, your energy levels go up, your brain fog go away, you'll sleep better. If you want to add a monitor in the mix, like, by all means, you know, have a blast, but it's not necessary. And most of my readers don't wear a monitor and get so many benefits already.

Yeah, I love it. And it— and I— for everybody listening, I think it's like, here, we're gonna hand you a lot of things on a platter. You could just start these. But for those of you who are maybe a little tougher to change, change your mind, change your habit, that creature of habit thing— you get up in the morning, you go about certain habits— but maybe need to see it on paper or your phone in order for it to be, oh, this is real.

I think you're right. You know, I think seeing in real life what's happening inside your body when you make certain choices, it could really change everything, especially if you're somebody who doesn't feel super connected to, you know, your body's signals. You wouldn't really be able to tell me right now how your body's feeling. Then wearing glucose monitor, it creates a connection, it creates a bridge between you and your biology, and it is so cool.

Okay, so let me frame this for you. So every woman here, we are really primarily— so, and if, if guys, if you're here and lingering, I'm not ignoring you and you're welcome to stay, but females here over 40, you know, up to 70, our primary audience, and we've got some nearly 80-year-olds. Many of them are going through menopausal hormonal changes, and it's changed everything such that the words we say most often are, nothing I do that I used to do that works, works anymore. And belly fat gets our attention. So I think I've learned from my mother, who at 87 said, can we do something about this? Can you show me some exercise? You know, and the woman has high blood pressure, high cholesterol, she's broken a hip. I'm like, and you want to work on your belly? Okay, you know, it's not going to go away. But for all listeners who may not think they care about glucose and blood sugar levels, how is it relative to her? Why is it important?

The studies are fascinating because your blood sugar levels are very intricately connected to your hormonal system. So if your blood sugar is out of whack it's going to hurt your hormones regardless of which stage of life you're in as a female, regardless of what levels of hormones you have. And especially the studies look at females going through menopause, and they see that in those who have more erratic blood sugar levels, they have more symptoms like hot flashes and insomnia. We also know that that stubborn belly fat can be a consequence of insulin resistance in the body, and insulin resistance is what happens when you have too many spikes over decades of life. The cool thing I will say about blood sugar levels is that they respond immediately to what you do. So if you put in place some changes, you can rapidly get those to steady, and then that can lead to seeing your symptoms dissipate quite quickly too. It's a, it's a very immediate chain reaction that can happen.

And we all love that immediate gratification. I think a client said it best, I really want results like yesterday's yesterday, you know. And, and there are some things where we try and that's actually dangerous, right? Comes back to bite you, but not so much here, which is very, very interesting.

And Debra, I will add also to your question about like, who is this relevant for? So when I first dug into the science, because I thought, hey, if I don't have diabetes, why would my glucose levels impact me, right? Because we all used to believe that blood sugar only matters if you have diabetes. Now we understand truly that that's just completely wrong and that it impacts everyone at every stage of their, of their life on so many aspects. So maybe your audience, you know, has that stubborn belly fat, but maybe some are also concerned with brain fog. And we know, for example, that brain fog can be a consequence of inflammation in the brain and the signal between neurons slowing down. And what leads to more inflammation in the brain and in the body? Glucose spikes. And I could go on and on. It could impact your relationship to others, make you more irritable. It can impact your skin, etc. So really, I learned that glucose levels are a foundation of health. And then, you know, depending on your medical history and your current situation, they can crystallize poor blood sugar control can crystallize into so many different symptoms. So truly, it's important for all of us to get this under control to help us in any way, shape, or form.

So good. And you said a word there that I'd love to have you unpack, because although we give it a lot of lip service here, I think women are reading and hearing about it everywhere, but it's so intangible. We can't see it and we can't feel it often. Inflammation. Talk about what is it, what's the harm in it, what's it doing, how are blood sugar levels related to inflammation?

So, you know, when you get a cut on your skin and then the, the skin around the cut becomes red as it's healing, so that's inflammation. And in this case, inflammation is good. It's actually a way to heal wounds when you're sick. Your inflammation levels go up because inflammation is a way of getting rid of invaders and pathogens and viruses. So inflammation is a really great biological response. The problem is today we're living in a way that is leading to this inflammation to be happening every single day chronically, when really it shouldn't be at all. And you might not notice it or feel it, but it can have some sort of insidious side effects. So if you look at, for example, acne, psoriasis, rosacea, those are inflammatory conditions. And the more inflammation in your body, the more you will see these things on your skin. So those are little signals there's inflammation going on within. Brain fog, that is a signal there's inflammation happening in your brain, right? And the list kind of goes on. The inflammation will manifest as different symptoms. And this inflammation is something we really want to get down because 3 out of 5 people today are going to die of an inflammation-based disease. Because inflammation-based diseases are things like heart disease, fatty liver disease, diabetes— I mean, cancer. All these things are inflammation-based. So another way to think about inflammation is just to think about sickness. Like, is your body thriving Or is it getting sicker? And if it's getting sicker, that's probably prompted by this low-level chronic inflammation that's going on. So to your question about what's the relationship between glucose spikes and inflammation, well, every glucose spike that happens in your body leads to 3 things. Number 1, it increases inflammation because it's kind of a stressful event for your body to deal with a glucose spike. So inflammation increases as a result. Second thing that happens in your body when you spike is that the little factories in your cells that make energy, your mitochondria, they become exhausted and tired and they don't make energy effectively anymore. So you wake up and you're exhausted. You go to the grocery store, you need to take a nap. And the third thing that happens with glucose spikes is this incredibly weird process called glycation. And glycation is what happens when you put a chicken in the oven and it goes from pink to brown. It's glycated. It has cooked. And we as human beings, from the moment we're born, we're slowly glycating. We're slowly cooking. And this is actually similar to the process of aging. So basically, moment you're born, you start cooking. When you're fully cooked, you're fully aged and you die. And you want to slow down this aging because it impacts the appearance of wrinkles on your skin. It impacts the age of your organs, the deterioration. So if you want to slow down aging, slowing down glycation is a way to go. So you might be like, wow, this is so much stuff. Again, glucose levels are the foundation of health. You need to get those under control if you want to thrive and get healthier as you age and not sicker.

Okay, so what are things that in a day-to-day, from wake up to bedtime, that someone could do that isn't necessarily turning her world upside down, not the what I call the January 2nd syndrome where you decide I'm suddenly gonna work out every day and I haven't for 5 years, you know, when we change our diet, you know. But what would be some very easy changes that could improve blood sugar levels, prevent the inflammatory reaction?

So I have these hacks, right, that all based on scientific studies. The 2 easiest hacks out of my 10 core ones are number 1, when you sit down for a meal, try to start your meal with vegetables. So whatever veggies are in your meal, try to have them at the beginning of the meal, or even add, you know, a few cherry tomatoes, a few baby carrots to the beginning of your meal, and then eat your meal like you normally would. Now why? Because veggies contain fiber, and when we have fiber at the beginning of a meal, it's gonna do an amazing thing. It's gonna coat your upper intestine with this protective mesh, and then whatever stuff you eat after the veggies is not gonna be able to pass into your bloodstream so quickly because of this protective mesh. So if you're eating a bunch of stuff that contains glucose, like pasta, rice, potatoes, bread, oats, tortillas, or anything sweet from a dessert to piece of fruit, By having that fibrous mesh, they're not going to create as big of a glucose spike in your bloodstream. So you still eat the stuff you love with less impact on your blood sugar, less impact on your inflammation.

Hey, this is Debra Atkinson, and there is one thing you can't do in the gym at your age, and that's get all the protein that you need. You've got to do that in the kitchen. To make it easy for myself, not only to get the protein but the fiber, the fruits and vegetables I want daily, I started drinking a smoothie a day 30 years ago. But when I realized all the junk, the sugar, and the extras that you don't want, that I don't want, hiding in most protein powders, that's when I finally caved in after years of saying I will never ever ever sell supplements. Stop skipping, skimping, and sabotaging yourself in the morning after workouts by always being prepared. Look, yep, I agree, real food first, but it's just not convenient to carry a turkey sandwich. Sometimes the protein— and don't forget the fiber— they kill cravings and they boost satiety, and you've got to make it easy to do the right thing. You can use code PODCAST for 10% off your first order at Flipping50.com today. Question. Someone is listening, and I used to think this was all men. Very stereotypical of me, but I do have women I've worked with whose real only vegetable is a potato. So are we talking potatoes? Are we talking non-starchy veggies?

Potatoes are not a veggie for me. Potatoes are starch. No, no, no. So potatoes are starch. Potatoes turn to glucose. Potatoes are almost entirely glucose. Yeah. Thank you for asking. So vegetables that would work for this are broccoli, tomatoes, zucchini, asparagus, cucumbers. Salad is a great one, you know, peas, carrots, etc. Like, you need real veggies that are not the starchy kind. If you can turn it into like a French fry, it's not a veggie. That's just my take. But so let's say you love potatoes and you're like, can't live without my potatoes. I'm like, great. Potatoes are starch. They turn to glucose. They create a glucose spike. So what you do before you eat the potato, you make a little salad or, you know, you have a few little pieces of carrots. That's going to help reduce the spike of the potato. Hack number 2. Okay, this one is going to sound a bit too much like a magic pill, but it's actually incredibly scientifically proven. So it's all about vinegar. Vinegar. Is so incredible. And I'm talking the vinegar you find in your kitchen, right? Not the fancy balsamic, just any vinegar, any cooking vinegar you have at home. So the studies show us that if we drink 1 tablespoon of vinegar in a big glass of water, like really dilute it in a big glass of water before we eat carbs, that can cut the glucose spike of those carbs by up to 30%.

Wow.

Yeah. So, I recommend you do this once a day. Yep. Do this once a day before the meal of your day that's gonna be highest in starches or sugars. So, for example, if you know you're gonna have pizza for dinner, have a little vinegar drink before. If you know you're gonna have some cookies in the afternoon, have a little vinegar drink before. Now, you can't sort of vinegar yourself out of any sort of diet. These are the little fun, easy hacks. The real meaty stuff I'm going to tell you about now.

We have a bunch of overachievers here. I know this because I've been with them for a period of time. You said do this. I recommend you do this once a day. I have a lot of people who are ordering off of Amazon right now vinegar, and they're thinking, well, if a little is good, I'm going to do it every meal. Why?

Why not? You don't actually need to. The studies show that, you know, after twice a day, you kind of plateau the benefits. And once a day is really where you get the real change. Most powerful effect because the effect of vinegar actually lasts in your body for a little while. So you don't need to be having it all the time. And vinegar is not super delicious, by the way. So, you know, for a lot of people, they're going to be like, oh God, no thanks. And I get it, you know, and you don't have to have vinegar in order to have healthy glucose levels. I think if we get into a mindset of overachieving, and if, for example, somebody gets my book and reads all the 10 hacks and like I have to do this every single day, all the time. I really advise against that because the stuff I'm going to teach you is not a diet. It's not something you can fail at. These are principles like drink water, brush your teeth, wear sunscreen. If one day you forget to brush your teeth, you're not going to have a mental breakdown over it. You just brush your teeth in the morning. Like, it doesn't matter. These are just like fairy godmothers that you have to have in your pocket for whenever it's easy to do them. But if a hack is hard to do and you don't like doing it, do not do it. That is not the point. Pick the ones you like and you want to do, and do them when it's easy to do them.

Fantastic. Making it easy, no pressure. It's always there, pick it up when you can.

Exactly. And a lot of these hacks, you'll find that they've actually been used in many cultures for a very long time. They're more like ancestral wisdom that we're now understanding the value of through these modern scientific studies. So, for example, vinegar. It's been around forever. Who doesn't have vinegar in their kitchen? In places like Iran, they drink vinegar all day because they know it's good for the body, but it's more of a wisdom knowing rather than a real scientific understanding of what's going on. But now we know what's going on. The veggies first. I'm from France. All around the Mediterranean, there's this cultural habit of starting the meal with veggies. In France, we have this thing called crudité. Which are raw veggies you have at the beginning of a meal. Nobody does this anymore, but my grandmother used to. In Italy, antipasti, veggies at the beginning of a meal again. So we've lost touch with these very important traditions that I feel like we really have to bring back.

And instead, we're having the basket of chips or bread.

Yeah. And the problem is if you have the bread at the beginning of your meal, Yeah, all of that glucose is going to go straight into your bloodstream, create a big spike, and then 90 minutes later, big crash. And that's when the waiter comes to your table and is like, would somebody like a little dessert? And your glucose levels are crashing, and that leads to activating the craving center in your brain. So in that moment, you're super vulnerable to ordering the slice of apple pie.

In addition to blood sugar spiking because of food, we also know like certain conditions. If I didn't sleep last night, that's going to change things too. Are you studying that or pulling it in to— yes, okay.

Yes, I think those are interesting, but sometimes they're out of our control. So other things that can impact our glucose levels are things like sleep, of course, stress, how hydrated you are, how much muscle mass you have, your microbiome, your hormonal levels. You know, the list kind of goes on and on. How grounded you are. There's even studies showing that when you put your feet on the ground, like on the grass, that reduces your glucose levels because it brings your nervous system into balance. The list goes on. And these are really cool. And you can kind of maybe sometimes notice them on your glucose monitor. But to me, it's so much more important to look at how you're eating because that has the biggest impact. You can't blame unsteady glucose levels on, oh, I'm just dehydrated. You know what you're eating during your meals, that's going to have the real deep impact. But if you want to know, there's actually something that happens when you go through menopause that your body becomes more sensitive to carbs and the same carbs create bigger glucose spikes than they would have before menopause. And that's just freaking unfair and so damn annoying.

It's so wrong.

I'm like, what the fuck? That's so wrong. And so that's often— that's one of the many reasons where you can be still eating the same diet you used to, but all of a sudden your body's responding differently because those hormones, as I was telling you, glucose levels, hormonal system, they're like two peas in a pod. They influence each other greatly. And so the shifting hormones also influence your glucose response. And that's why it's the perfect time to learn about these hacks. Because not only can you feel as well as you did pre-menopause, you can even feel better if you've been your whole life on a glucose roller coaster.

Yeah, so agree with that, and I love it. Yeah, it's a wake-up call. It's just such a— oh my goodness, this is a reason to pay more attention to me, but also to every woman listening. I mean, there's no more powerful health influencer in the world than a midlife woman. You're influencing 3 generations. I mean, what an impact if you learn it, you could have on somebody else. Now, having had dinner with, you know, 4 other people last week, I realized that there was a point where I could have said something, but it probably wasn't invited. So I kept my mouth closed. I get it. You don't want those fries right now.

Do you know about trans fats? Nuggets do. Yeah, no, I think the best way to go is just lead by example. Yeah, because if you force stuff on people, it never works. Listen, I've tried it all around me. Some people, like my freaking dad, they just, they're just not into the whole thing. Everybody else is like all over the hacks and feels amazing, and for him it just doesn't really connect. And I think you have to let people, you know, go through their life journey they're supposed to go through, and maybe in the next lifetime they'll figure all this stuff out.

So true. Okay, and I'm going to ask you a question that maybe is unfair because you are the biochemist, and yet you've put this message out there, and you've also just taken complicated science and made it so easy to understand. So we should all thank you for that. But why is it, do you think, that we humans can learn this helps and still walk on by and not make those easy changes? What is it about change?

Oh, I think it's such an interesting question, and it's so multifaceted. I think until you really reach rock bottom, sometimes it's difficult to want to change, and I think often behavior change is just really hard and not very sexy, right? Your doctor might say eat better, exercise more, and you're like, gosh, that sounds like— first of all, what the heck does that mean? Second of all, like, no, sounds boring. And I'm a biochemist and I do talk about science, but my real passion is behavior change. I believe if you are able to offer to people on a platter these very simple tricks, like having a few bites of cauliflower before a meal, a few baby carrots, like the vinegar trick, it doesn't cost anything. It's not going to remove any pleasure. It's super easy. Then you start a virtuous cycle where the person will start to feel great about making that small change and then will want to make another one and will also feel better in their body. And then it starts. I think the, the kickstart, the, the zero to one, that's the hardest part. And it's my passion. I've been trying to crack that. For the past 5 years throughout my work. And I'm so happy to say that for a lot of people, it's really unblocked their behavior change journey.

Beautifully said. Okay. As an exercise physiologist, I know that there are moments when I can overhear a conversation, not eavesdropping, by the way, but you're in an airport, you're beside someone on a plane, you're hearing a conversation. There are things that just make my skin crawl and I want to correct it. Are there things that are said, you know, in recommendation for a healthy diet in an attempt, well-intentioned, to point somebody in the right direction that just makes alarms go off in your head?

Oh yeah, people who say eggs are bad for your heart. I'm like, bro, that's been disproven 20 years ago. Can we please move on? Eggs are amazing. Have eggs every day. That, and then the recommendation of eating oats, cereal, fruit juice in the morning. I mean, why are people still serving fruit juice in hotel breakfast spreads? Like, don't we know by now that's just like having a Coca-Cola? Can we please move on from this poison sugar water stuff? There's just a lot of misinformation and it's, it's led by marketing, by a lot of money. That is being made off of these products.

Yeah, yeah, not good. I have a question about— okay, so you mentioned even fruit, you know, could spike your blood sugar if you have it first, right, depending on the order that you have it. What about anything that is simply sweet tasting? So a lot of us have substituted stevia or monk fruit. Is there anything to the fact that you know, your tongue tastes sweet, is there a spike in blood sugar there? Can there be?

Not for stevia and monk fruit. So it really depends on the sweetener. The ones that can spike your glucose levels are aspartame, maltitol, and acetylsulfame K. Those are kind of the ones you want to stay more away from. But then again, even if some of these sweeteners have consequences on glucose, insulin, also in your microbiome, on your cravings center in your brain, even though they have these consequences, I believe they're still better choices than having a big amount of sugar, for example, in a regular Coca-Cola. So I would always have a Diet Coke over a regular Coke. If somebody is not adding sweeteners to their diet, would I tell them start adding them? No, of course not. But if you're trying to wean yourself off of the sugar, sweeteners are amazing and a great help.

Love it, I love it. Okay, I've got a question for you about like what makes a good study, because you, you are the epitome of the scientists who can make this clear. But I think so often, you know, on Instagram for instance, you'll read a post and it says science says, research says, and it is so easy to say, well, there was a study that said this. I think for a listener, how would she make the distinction that this is valid, I might want to pay attention to this, versus there's too little here to go on?

The first thing you want to look at— so first thing, when you have media headlines, you always want to go and find the source. So you always want to find the original study. That's going to be on a website like PubMed because that's the source of truth. The media headlines often misinterpret or sensationalize what's found in the studies. So you wanna look at who has run the study and who has funded the study. That's the first place. Because if you see a study that says, oh, drinking a glass of orange juice a day is linked to better lifespan, you might think, oh wow, great, I'll drink the orange juice. And then if you look at the funders of the study, it might say, you know, American Orange Juice Association. So, so that's the first place you want to look. Who's funding the study and is there a conflict of interest there? Then look at the actual study itself. On how many people was it done? What demographic? What age range? Was it an observational study? When it means they just sort of look at different groups of people. And for example, an observational study could be a study that wants to look at the association between orange juice drinking and cancer. So they might, you know, look at 10,000 people and say, oh, whoa, in the people who drink the most orange juice, there's the least incidence of cancer. And in the people who drink the least orange juice, there's the most incidence of cancer. That's called an association or observational study. They're just observing things that are going hand in hand. But These can be incredibly biased because maybe somebody, you know, who doesn't drink orange juice also usually smokes. I don't know, right? So there's so many confounders. So observational studies are complicated. What you really want to look for, and this is— sorry, a bit rambling, but it's important— are what's called clinical trials, where they try an intervention on a group. They say, okay, Debra Atkinson and these 50 other people, every day we're going to give you a vitamin C supplement. For 30 days, and then we're going to measure how your health improves. And by the way, we're going to have what's called a control group. So a group that think they're getting a vitamin C supplement but are actually getting a placebo. This is very important to actually measure if it's a real effect or not, or if just the fact that you're taking a pill, whatever pill, would improve your health. A randomized clinical trial, double-blind, placebo-controlled, etc., etc. That's the gold standard. In the results of a study, the media might say, oh my God, doing this thing doubles your risk of cancer. And you're like, oh my God, that's horrible. But if you look at the actual study, it might say, oh yeah, doing this thing means that instead of 1 person out of 10,000 getting cancer, it's now 2 people out of 10,000, which is still very, very, very small, right? But it is double, double the risk, but the risk is so tiny.

And that interpretation is not great. Okay. So is there a number of people, a number of subjects that is ideal? Like, oh, this is, I'm going to pay more attention to this, or it's too soon?

The bigger, the better.

Right.

And you also have to weigh the risk. You're like, okay, this is an amazing effect. And the risk of doing this is zero, right? I can try it myself and see how I feel. However, if it's telling you to do something completely outrageous and dangerous, like, don't do it if the risk is high to actually doing the intervention, if the number of participants was not high enough to make you feel very certain that the effect is real.

Beautiful. Okay, I'm going to get personal here.

Okay. All right.

I've heard you talk about eating chocolate cake, so I know you do. So you've said it out there for the world to hear. How has your personal diet, your habits changed, like from now to if you looked back 10 years ago? What's changed as you do all this research, you have all the knowledge, what, what would you say have been the biggest changes you've made?

I've completely changed my breakfast, completely. Now I have savory foods, protein in the morning. That's non-negotiable for me. And, you know, I still eat the pasta and the chocolate cake that I love, but I know how to eat it in a way that's less bad for my glucose levels. So I haven't cut out carbs at all. I eat carbs and sugar every day, but I use the hacks to make sure I'm also helping my body process them in the easiest possible way. So I would say I've kind of just reordered and rearranged my diet rather than drastically changed it. And also, when you study your glucose levels, something really amazing happens, which is that your cravings start dissipating. So I feel like I'm no longer controlled by these urges to find something sweet at 3 PM. Instead, I can enjoy the sugar that I love and the chocolate that I love without feeling like I'm a victim to this sugar addiction.

Beautiful. How do you do your end-of-day routine? I mean, do you have a method to the madness that I close the kitchen after dinner, or I do bedtime snacks? What's— oh my goodness, there's a story here I could Bedtime snack.

No, I was gonna tell you that I'm actually a very messy person. I don't really have a— it just depends on the day. But I love watching TV in the evening, so afternoon I'll watch like a little TV show or something, and it's kind of impossible to— for me not to eat as I'm watching TV. I think it's a thing from when I was a kid. So I'll usually grab a yogurt, I'll put some berries in there and like 2 squares of dark chocolate sort of broken up in it. But once I've had that, I don't feel like I need to eat more. I'm fine. I just need a little sweet something with, with the TV experience.

So good. I love it. Okay, Jessie, you've done one or two of these podcasts before. You're reaching millions, so I know it. I have to ask you this. Is there a question, knowing we're talking to women over 40, that I should have asked you?

You know, we've hit the behavior change thing, which is something I really want to bring home. I guess one question is, now that I know all this stuff, how do I relate to symptoms, right? Because in the past, when I had the brain fog, the dissociation, all this stuff, I thought that my symptoms were just annoyances or things I should suppress, ignore, get upset about. Now when I have symptoms, whatever they are, maybe they're insomnia, maybe they're pimples, I see my symptoms as being messages from my body. So I listen. I'm like, oh wow, like, I don't feel very well today. Or, oh wow, my skin is breaking out. Like, what's going on? What am I doing? Or, oh wow, I didn't sleep. Like, I wonder what I had for dinner. Maybe that had an impact. So I encourage people to create a sort of communication channel with their body and to see their symptoms as messages. And your body's just trying to communicate to you instead of seeing them as something we should medicate, ignore, suppress, or feel ashamed of.

Love it. So, so well said. And saying that, as you wrote this book, especially The Glucose Revolution, what, what were your goals? I mean, what, what did you hope? By my writing this, X will happen.

I wanted to— I wanted to reveal to people the power that they have that they might not be aware of. I want to, I want to really just give people agency, power, control, independence over their health, what they're eating. I want to cut through all the myths and the marketing and the noise and show you how easy it could be for you to thrive and feel great in your body, and that it's possible. It's not complicated. It doesn't need to be a horrible deprivation diet or some really expensive pill. You can have so much agency once you have the right information. That really was my intention. I want everybody to be fully in their power and present in themselves with all the information they need to live the best life they want to live.

Fantastic answer. Where is the best place for everyone to go and follow you? Because I know you're going to be stalked.

Well, listen, the first place I work is Instagram. So the Instagram account is called Glucose Goddess, and that's where all this stuff happens. I also just launched a bunch of episodes on YouTube under the YouTube channel Glucose Revolution, and I just launched one on hormones. So I talk menopause, fertility, etc. Yeah, so that's a good one. And then my books, you know, Glucose Revolution is the place to start with all the science, and the Glucose Goddess Method is a 4-week, 4-step plan with recipes to steady your glucose levels and feel amazing.

Awesome. So much. Thank you. Thank you for all of the tips and the wisdom. And we've just touched the tip of the iceberg, everyone. So go out and grab those books. Jessie, thank you again.

Thank you, Debra.

Thank you. For listening. To listen to a decade of episodes and to get the show notes, visit flipping50.com where you'll be able to find all the previous episodes. And I made it super easy to make the most of your listening time and get exactly what you want to listen to as top priority by getting the top 10 episodes in the areas you most care about. Like how much protein do you need, weight loss, and other 3 ultra important topics we've identified as our community's top 5. There's no more powerful health influencer in the world than you, midlife women. So go and listen right now. Do you have a question for a podcast? A question you'd love to ask, or maybe a story you want to tell? Did you know we have a special group just for podcast question roundups and the answers? My community coaches and I provide answers daily inside of this group, but it's also where I go when I occasionally say, okay, open call for podcast questions, or tell your story. Would you like to be a guest. So if you're looking for a community of women who are also interested in optimizing their health, strengthening their mindset, and looking forward to every new year, join the Flipping 50 Insiders group. That's Flipping 50 Insiders on Facebook.