Monetizing SaaS: Episode 41 with Jules Boiteux, Founder of Roast My Pricing Page

Jules, it is so nice to be here with you. Thank you so much for joining our podcast. I've gotten to know you over the last year. Your, your ideas on LinkedIn are what kind of how I found you. And it's been so good to kind of watch your work and get to know you. You're a founder and you have a deep background in product management. You've been a PM at Marmalade App, Hull, Livestorm, Trustpair. And over the last year, you've founded Roast My Pricing Page, which I think it's such a timely business that you've founded. But tell us your career journey in your own words.

Sure. Well, first of all, thank you very much, Fynn, for having me on the podcast. So yeah, I'm 32, as you said, I'm a product manager by trade. I actually come from an engineering background with a specialization in entrepreneurship. And yeah, after school, I started like a project with a SaaS, completely failed. Like we did like all the mistakes of the playbook basically. But we got to learn a lot. Actually, at the time I was with a technical founder and I was kind of doing product management without really knowing it was product management at the time. I was in an incubator and, you know, speaking with other fellow companies which had like employees and product teams, I realized that, you know, what I was doing is, was actually close to actually what a product manager would do. And so that's why I decided to start off my entrepreneurial, sorry, my career as a product manager. And yeah, as you said, started like a freelance gig at Marvelous App and then, you know, went through various experiences at, yeah, Livestorm. So, Pearl first, then Livestorm, .fyre, and Trustpair, which was like my last experience as a product manager. And yeah, starting in 2024, I embarked again on an entrepreneurial journey, which is why I'm here today with you.

We're going to talk all about Raise My Pricing Page. I'm curious, of the product management experiences that you've had, is there a single experience that has had the biggest impact on you? Maybe not. It could be many experiences, but I'm curious if there's a single one.

Yeah, that's a good question. It obviously depends on from which angle you address this question, but obviously we are here to talk about pricing, billing, packaging. So if I have to answer to you from that perspective, I would say that the most significant experience I had was being a product manager at Livestorm. I was the product manager of the Dashboard Tribe. And actually, for those who do not know about Livestorm, Livestorm is a webinar software. And what kind of stands out from other competitors is that Livestorm handles all the value chain of organizing a webinar from the registration. To the data analysis with obviously, you know, the event per se. And actually what I got to work on was actually everything that was not inside the room. And this included notably billing. So billing and everything around, you know, what people would call actually growth PM or maybe billing PM. And yeah, and at the time, my, I mean, my biggest project at Livestorm was actually the rollout of a new pricing. At the time, we wanted to switch from a license-based pricing model to a usage-based pricing model. And I got to work on the project really from the strategic side, you know, discussing with founders about, you know, what should be the new pricing rate, running some product pricing discovery to the actual implementation of the pricing, which would occur in various phases, etc., etc. So yeah, to that respect, I think this was like, and based on what I'm working on today, I would say that this experience was the most significant one and defining one, I would say.

That experience resonates quite a bit for me. That's a similar experience is why I'm focused on schematics. We have kindred histories. Tell us about Roast My Pricing Page. I mean, I think, you know, for those that are not familiar, you have now shown hundreds of founders how to turn website visitors into more customers by giving them very actionable insights about their pricing page. And you do that through a roast, which I think is, is, it's so, it's so, it's wonderful because it brings humor and humility to what is often a really difficult thing to get right. So tell us a little bit about like what led you to founding the company. You could have gone in a variety of directions given your experience with billing and pricing and packaging. What led you to this one?

Yeah, a very good question. And yeah, obviously that was not like a straightforward path. The thing is that, so I wanted to embark again on an entrepreneurial journey starting in 2024 for many, many reasons. And so I wanted to create my own company and I had a few criteria. And among those criteria First, you know, a topic that I had, you know, some experience on. Didn't want to start from scratch. And also a second criteria was also working on something that impacted a lot of people, a lot of companies since I was focusing on B2B. And the third one was actually something that was intellectually stimulating, something that was of interest to me because, you know, you know it better than me. It's a tough journey to embark on. So at least you need to to be passionate about what you do. And yeah, so that led me to actually running a discovery on pricing topics. And I actually came up with various subjects, various pain points. And with a developer, we started working on a SaaS. It was like a kind of tool on top of Stripe to enable to set up in no-code alerts, like emails, in-app banners, when customers would reach certain thresholds of consumption, obviously tailored for SaaS businesses. Is having a usage-based pricing model. So we are still like working on this topic, but I soon realized that I needed to create an audience. I think once again, I think that's also why you have this podcast as well. It's because when you work on a SaaS, you need also to work on having an audience and distributing this product to the audience. And I didn't have that much of an audience at the time and still working on it. And so I told myself, well, how can I like portray myself and how can I like get to be known as a pricing expert. And so that's why I, and I also wanted to like, you know, start getting confidence and earning some money and, you know, also learning the ropes of testing marketing channels, you know, having websites, having people come to websites, trying to convert them. And so that's why I started thinking about some services that could be related to pricing. And one that, and I also had this criteria of, you know, doing some service, but also trying to do it at scale or at least at much scale as possible because the idea was also to get some data, some data on, you know, problems, issues that, you know, are widespread on a given market to obviously iterate over my product or come up with other product ideas. So basically that was like the overall context and why Roast my pricing page exactly. It's because, you know, when we were at Livestorm and— sorry, when I was at Livestorm and we had to roll out this new pricing offer, basically one of the tasks that I had to orchestrate with the website team was to design a new pricing page. And really at the time, I felt that there was no real framework, you know, that people would jump in, like so many people would jump in to give their opinions, etc. And, you know, it would go like a bit south each time we wanted to like design the pricing page. And I felt that there was something missing. And I felt that thinking back about this experience, I felt that there was a need to maybe come up with a framework to kind of help at least start with some best practices. I knew at the time that, and I know it even better now that it doesn't work like it's not a science and you cannot come up with a framework and say you need to do this. This and that to come up with a great pricing page. However, there are certain best practices that you can start with and that can serve as a good base to then start, you know, optimizing it, testing it, A/B testing, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, that was the goal at first. And what I did is that I spent months, you know, analyzing pricing pages of high-growing companies. I read, I saw videos, I ingested as many information about, you know, pricing page conversion, et cetera. Also getting some information from the interviews I ran in the wake of the discovery. And this led me to a kind of playbook or guidelines. I don't really like this term because, as I said, it's not like a science per se, but at least there are certain checkboxes that I came up with and that I started to apply to some of the prospects I spoke with in the wake of my discovery. And I realized that giving them some advice in an asynchronous way via video, only with the pricing page URL as an input was actually enough with also my framework. After also coming up with a solid list of checkboxes in my framework, I realized that companies were ready to pay for that. And that's how it started. And then I came up with a website and started still continuing industrializing this service company, basically.

It's a fantastic story. And I want to get into I want to go as deeply as we can into the anatomy of a pricing page because you've learned, you think, more deeply than most people about that. But before we do it, just really quickly, tell us a little bit about the type of customers you're serving. Are these generally startups or these growth stage businesses? Is it B2B SaaS? Is it B2C? Give us a, paint us a picture of the customers that have found the most value so far.

Yeah. So to date, I'm mainly focused on B2B SaaS businesses. Yeah. Simply because I, you know, the playbook or the guidelines I came up with, like this methodology, I iterated it very following roasts of B2B SaaS businesses. And so I'm focusing on that. And I have mainly, I have 3 offers, one offer that is really tailored more for small companies who just like started with a website and maybe have a section about their pricing, but not even a dedicated page. So these would be like, this would range from indie makers to really pre-seed companies. And then I have 2 offers which are more tailored for companies that start to have like maybe more than 1 million AR, which means that they start having significant traffic on their website. Thus, with the challenge of optimizing that traffic in order to convert as much as possible into—

Okay. Let's go to the anatomy of the pricing page. How do you think about the anatomy? How do you think about the framework? Kind of help us grasp this.

Yeah. So again, it's not like an exact science. Every SaaS business businesses having significant visits on their website should run experimentations in order to optimize their pricing page. I don't want people to think that, you know, I'm coming in with a magic wand and that that can be applied to any company. However, there are a few good practices to have. And when it comes to a pricing page, there are a few main elements that you need to come up with. The first one is the headline that can be also combined with the subheadline. It's often something that is underestimated by marketers or founders on their pricing page. The thing is that your pricing page, it's like the second most visited page normally, maybe the most visited page on your website. It's often also the first, it can be actually not often, but it can be in a lot of cases, the first page your prospect will jump on, which means that, you know, they will not know about your product. That's one of the most common mistakes I hear when I speak with founders is that when they come to your pricing page, it doesn't mean that they have skimmed through your homepage and know everything about your product, which means that there are certain things from your homepage that you need also to retrieve basically, that you need to import, sorry, on your pricing page. And this includes the headline. And then the headline shouldn't be the same, obviously, but it should at least convey some elements about your value proposition or an important feature about your product. Because again, people coming to your pricing page may not know about your product at whole. This headline should also combine some important aspect about your pricing model, if possible reassuring one, which is why you can help yourself with a subheadline to combine those two. So it's quite a tough exercise and I actually, and that's why, that's where also I can help it on the copy of what you want to display on the pricing page. So yeah, headline, not that easy actually to come up with. And below, generally you come up with your plans, plans horizontally organized, no more than 4. If you have add-ons like AI features add-ons, you would probably locate them below the plans. And yeah, and then below that, feature comparison table. If you have a lot of features and you don't want to actually list all of those inside the plans. And then something that is also often forgotten, the frequently asked question section. And on top of that, wherever you deem is the best You can put like some social proof, like logos, testimonials, et cetera. That's actually the main elements that should be combined inside the pricing page. Obviously inside each of those sections, there are a few precision and a few and a lot of practices to come up with, like I described you with the headline. But that's the gist of what, you know, pricing page should look like from a high, high-level standpoint.

It's incredibly clarifying. And just to play it back, there's the headline, you might have a subheadline, there's the plans, you don't want to go beyond 4. There are, there are kind of like below the plans, if you've got add-ons, you would include the add-ons below the plans. And then below the add-ons, you'd include some combination of feature comparison tables, social proof, and frequently asked questions.

Exactly. And as a bonus, if that fits your value prop or your go-to-market strategy, you can add also a section where you compare yourself with competitors. It's often relevant if, you know, it's really, I mean, it's a sales strategy to actually tell your prospect, I'm cheaper than your competition, or I have the same, I have more features than the competition, even though we have the same price or this kind of stuff. And also another bonus that I give also to my customers is using what I call the comparison with the duct taping of tools. And what I mean by duct taping is when you have a product that actually embeds several SaaS specialized in a vertical, it's often interesting to actually compare your pricing with, you know, combine the prices of all those tools. So for instance, the most famous example I have is Basecamp, which kind of embeds like a Slack, a Google Doc, a Trello, for instance. And on their pricing page, they do that comparison, which I think is, which I find is pretty neat, not applicable to all businesses, but yeah. Pretty interesting.

What do you find is the most common mistake that people are making?

Yeah, I guess you are talking about pricing pages.

Pricing pages. I mean, is it, is it my copy isn't good? Is it I forgot the FAQ? Is there a singular most common mistake that you're seeing or is it, it's, it's, there's, there's really kind of, there's a sort of like a number of mistakes. It's not so singular in theme.

Yeah. I actually have written an article on my blog about the top 5 main mistakes that people do on on their SaaS page. If I had to pick one, it's actually forgetting about social proof. Getting back to what I told you like a moment ago, you know, some founders or marketers tend to forget that, you know, some prospect will come to your pricing page without knowing about your product or even without, you know, skimming through study cases or even testimonials basically on your homepage. So, and to solve that and to make sure that those customers, they can really, they can quickly anchor themselves to what you do and what's your value value prop, having some testimonials, some logos can help out. Logos to help understand that what's the target market of your products. So if they find themselves in the same category as those logos that you display, that's always a good positive thing. And also showing testimonials that are concise, short to read, where you can see concretely what's the value prop you can provide is definitely something important. And I tend to think that would be the number one mistake, omission I would see on pricing pages.

That's very interesting. What are the other 4? I'm curious.

So if I'm not mistaken, because I have written the article a few times ago, I think so there was the headline, the copy of the headline. I think there was about forgetting about adding a currency selector where you can switch between dollars and euros because oftentimes a SaaS will quickly start to, I mean, maybe not in the US actually where you have a big market, but at least in Europe, you need to start very soon to think about pricing or currencies. And for the FAQ, the mistake is that it tends to actually be focused around more product questions while FAQ on the pricing page should be here to reassure customers about how they can upgrade. Do you have like a clawback clause or some possibility to be refunded after 30 days or this kind of stuff? And so that should be 4. And yeah, and including the social proof, I think we have the 5th Yeah. So I think that's it. But if you want to check the 5 of those, yeah, I will redirect you to my—

Yeah, yeah. We'll link to it. I had someone not so long ago tell me the singular most important page on any B2B SaaS company's website is the pricing page.

Yeah.

And they then, you know, they were so serious when they told me this and then they waxed poetic, right? Like this is your entire company's offering. In the most concise form it can be communicated. And then somebody else said, no, the pricing page is really the second most important page. Like the homepage is the most important page because it has to get you to the pricing page. But I think what I've heard you say is many, in many instances, potential customers, prospects arrive on the pricing page first. I'm curious, have you concluded that one of these pages is more important than the other? A little bit of a hot take here, but it is so important. I mean, it is such a massive conversion rate optimization opportunity? Yeah.

So yeah, I'm slightly biased on this one. So obviously that's the most important one, but no, no, no, I'm kidding. I mean, in both cases, that's an important page. So you need to actually make sure you allocate resources to improve its conversion. But so I don't have like a definite answer saying it's the most important one or the second most important one. This could be actually some figures or some analytics I could retrieve. After I have followed up on all my customers and checking out on also the traffic and how to what extent that traffic does convert into signups, even though it then touches on attribution subjects, which are very, very difficult from what I understood. But yeah, it's really important because it's like, you often hear about the fact that distribution is more important than product. Product. And it's tough for a product manager to hear that, but it's really something that I have to acknowledge. And your pricing page is a very important element of your distribution. Obviously, your salespeople running sales calls, your marketing team coming up with some marketing channels to drive traffic towards your pricing page is also, are other important elements, but your pricing page is a very big and important element. So I really think that you can really make or break your revenue depending on how your pricing page is presented and how much it converts. So yeah, that's what I can say. But in all cases, it's at least the second most visited page. Yeah.

Two kind of potential pricing models that I'm curious to get your take on. One would be value-based pricing, where maybe the actual end price that I'm going to charge is in some ways a little bit obfuscated on a pricing page. Curious what you've learned about about how the pricing page deals with value-based pricing. And then my second question is, how does the pricing page deal with usage-based pricing?

Okay. So when you speak about value-based, I mean, are you referring to usage-based pricing or outcome-based pricing? Just to make sure I—

I think that there is quite a lot of overlap in these two topics. So let's make it really tangible. Like usage-based, let's say my price metric is related to something like API calls.

Calls. Yeah.

Um, and it's obvious that maybe I could buy like some kind of bulk number of API calls, or maybe I'm just going to buy pure sort of incremented API calls and it's going to scale with usage. I think about that as, as in some ways slightly different to value-based pricing, where the value is determined in the context of the sales negotiation based on, you know, the size of the problem for the company, the extent to which the solution is, is producing an output and allowing the business to capitalize on an opportunity. And that's a negotiated price. And so I'm curious, you know, kind of what you've learned about presenting via the pricing page, what would be a negotiated price and presenting what would be a kind of up and down incrementally permitted price based on—

Yeah, sure. Yeah, makes sense. So yeah, regarding like negotiated price, obviously the, in that specific case, I would say that the pricing page would tend to take less less important part in the overall sales process. It's still an important way for you to actually book and schedule meetings with your sales reps or sales team from a general standpoint. And you more kind of rely on the sales team to like show the value. In those cases, what is interesting is that it's maybe easier to actually formulate the value that you can provide. So it makes it easier for companies to actually formulate and it makes it easy to formulate the copy. Basically, notably, we talked about the headline. But yeah, the important thing here is actually to emphasize and shed light on some CTAs that enables to schedule calls. Whereas for usage-based pricing, where it's a bit more, as you said, tangible and directly linked to sheer usage, there are in those cases some good practices in terms of design components to use. And that notably includes pricing sliders. And that's actually Actually a project of mine that come up in a few months time, hopefully, which is providing SaaS founders with components specially tailored for different type of business models. And that notably includes pricing sliders and also pricing calculators, being able to actually input the value that you know as a prospect internally and gives you the output, which is like like the usage on which you are going to be billed. So for instance, at Livetome, we came up with, so we used to, I mean, they still build on active contacts. So basically more or less unique registrants to webinar. And we came up with a pricing calculator where the input would be the number of webinars you organize and the average number of registrants per webinar. And then we would come up with as an outcome, the number of the projected number of active contacts. So that can be interesting to improve conversion, to remove any mental loads related to assessing what's your projected usage. So yeah, so all in all, to conclude on those value-based pricing, I think pricing page tends to be a bit less important, even though it seems it's really paramount to actually emphasize and put as many CTAs as possible without overwhelming obviously the prospect to make sure we schedule a call. And on usage-based pricing, they there are a few specific components that can be really useful to increase conversion, including those, you know, pricing sliders or pricing calculators.

Yeah, that's great. You know, one thing that's sort of apparent to me is that a lot of your work is helping people optimize the tip of the spear and communicate very, very clearly this really important, you know, sort of, for lack of a better word, like, this is, this is where I'm going to communicate my value to you. And so I need to communicate it as clearly as possible, as persuasively as possible.

Possible.

But that tip of the spear effectively like doesn't really materialize or does materialize based on the quality of the business's approach to pricing as a discipline or as a practice internally, as a function internally. I'm curious what you've learned about that. I mean, what have you learned across the, the many hundreds of customers that you've helped around how their pricing page is influenced by the quality of their pricing practice internally? Their pricing discipline internally.

Yeah. I mean, the thing is that the majority actually of the companies I've worked with, as I said, they are generally, you know, they're the most mature ones are still post-product market fit, but they would still be, you know, in the region of, I don't know, $3 to $5 million ARR. So they wouldn't have like, I would say a army or sales ops process that is really complete and that really is on rails, basically. So generally speaking, people are a bit lost about what to do on their pricing page. So that notably means that they are not able to, by any means, link their pricing page design to their sales process. At Livestorm, which was a more mature company, which is a more mature company in terms of growth and in terms of ARR and in terms of sales count, obviously, there was a very clear connection between the pricing page design and the sales team. For instance, giving you an example, they use a tool called Clearbit Reveal to enrich the IP of prospects coming in and based on from that, they're able to say whether it is likely that the prospect works for a big company. And in those cases, they would show up a banner pushing a schedule a call button in order to make sure that they increase the likelihood of booking the call and the sales team taking over. In the other cases, they would actually push for signing up to create a free trial. And then when you are in the free trial, depending on your usage, so you start having a test webinar when you start inviting like a few team members, etc. They see that usage is increasing depending on the usage. They would, for instance, push a pop-up to say, you know, you should opt for this or that plan. And again, they opt for this plan. And then if they see that, you know, they soon reach the limit of their plan, maybe that means that they actually have a usage that is more tailored to an enterprise plan. And in those cases, they would push them a CTA to schedule a call. So I'm, you know, obviously getting a bit away from the pricing page because here I'm talking about like checkout experience in app. But overall, in this specific example, they did have, you know, this kind of connection between, you know, the user experience on the pricing page and the design, basically on the pricing page and the go-to-market motion and how the sales team would handle those visits on the website. But yeah, to be honest, with the current customers I had, there were no, not mature enough from a sales and maybe growth standpoint to have such a logic.

When you kind of look at sort of the startups that you are spending most of your time with. How do you think startups and startup founders in particular are doing with really understanding their market's willingness to pay? Would you describe it as relatively immature or lack the tools, moderately mature, doing okay, starting to see a lot of maturity happen really quickly? There's something going on around pricing and packaging and companies are really starting to focus on this.

Yeah. For me, the state, at least in Europe, because the majority of my customers customers are in Europe. The state is really immature and they say it themselves. I mean, spoken with founders telling me that there was an opportunity to work on those kind of topics and you are also going to agree because founders are still doing it like a bit too randomly, I would say. So what I've seen is that the market for me is quite immature on those topics for various reasons, but I I think in the last 10 to 5 years when money was cheap, subjects regarding profitability, optimizing your revenue was not really a big concern. We were more in a context where we needed to improve the product as much as possible to have the best set of features in order to convince people to come in. But since there was so many competition because there was so many money on the market, so many companies arising with new offers, this was not that much of a topic, you know, dumping strategies were quite widespread on the market. Now it has changed, you know, in the last few years where companies are looking for more profitability. Also, I see that with the new technology coming in like AI, which incur some new costs, you know, founders, I hear more and more founders really being really focused on how to price their offer. I was speaking with a founder of a company that is about to release a new feature that is not actually an AI feature, but a feature that will incur big costs on their servers. And, you know, the first question was, how are we going to actually make sure we defray the corresponding costs? And so I would say the market, to answer your question, is quite immature. It's getting more and more mature at the moment. And I see more and more people knowing about those those willingness to pay surveys, like the fun fish and dog survey that people are often talking about. And that, for instance, we are going to run with a current customer I have. But yeah, quite immature, but I think these topics are more and more prevalent these days, which I think is a good thing, which is quite a good thing for the ecosystem. So, but yeah, still a lot of work to do. And yeah, that's why I think companies like yours are really in good spots and can contribute to making things change.

You mentioned that one of the more formative experiences was not just coming up with what the pricing should be, but also the implementation of the recommendation. Can you just talk a little bit about what you learned about the systems that govern pricing and packaging and dictate pricing and packaging in B2B SaaS?

Yeah. So, I mean, it's obviously a topic that, that you know a lot, lot about and and that you tackle a schematic. But so the thing, one of the most, you know, phony, I would say, issue, one of the biggest pain points that arose from the discovery I made was, you know, this inability to, you know, have control as a revenue team or as a product team on, you know, your pricing and on packaging. And you really, you know, it was really something that we, problem that we've had at Livetom. I remember, you know, speaking with developers describing me, you know, all those if plan legacy conditions or this kind of stuff, you know, all this spaghetti code regarding billing and pricing. And so I think what is at stake really right now is really how you make sure that you can decentralize the pricing logic from the code inside somewhere where you can have more control basically. And why so? Because for me, pricing, as I said, even though there are some core principles to apply, it's a never-ending process. You need to run some tests, you need to make some changes, etc., etc. And with all your pricing logic inside your code, it's really impossible to iterate. And also given the fact that Resources are becoming scarce these days because of also, you know, the downturn and the fact that, you know, from a general standpoint are not as capable as they used to hire many engineers. It becomes a really, really important thing to actually make sure that, you know, those— this pricing architecture is actually as much decentralized as possible from the code itself.

Right. I love that idea. Of the separation of concerns and what is at stake. I think that's such an interesting way to frame it.

Yep, exactly.

When you zoom out and when you think about the next 5 years and when you think about kind of monetization in the world of B2B SaaS startups, I'm curious kind of where your mind goes, where your mind likes to play.

Yeah. Obviously startup monetization is like a result of new product trends, obviously, because monetization should follow the product. They are both very much intertwined. So obviously, given the emergence of AI and LLM technology, obviously, I mean, it's now obvious to say that usage-based features are going to be more and more widespread. So I think that from a monetization standpoint, those kind of pricing models are going to keep emerging, which will obviously create creates potentially new market of tools making it easier to handle the architecture behind those new pricing models. And what I've seen also is, and again, that was following a conversation I had with one of my former customers, because companies are going to also add up some AI features that are not necessarily part and parcel of the value prop, but maybe something like something that is like an add-on or a feature on top. I see also plans being a bit broken down into, you know, sheer plans like they used to exist, like with features, etc. But we've also add-ons. So I see maybe, you know, pricing offers less, you know, organized around, you know, plans broken down with features, etc., but more, a bit more broken down between plans and add-ons because again, for those, you know, for instance, AI features, you need to find a way to monetize them to defray your costs. So yeah, maybe that could be a change. So a bit more complex, maybe a way, I mean, a bit more complex pricing offers with more add-ons on top of packages, which will require to make sure that, you know, those pricing offers are correctly explained and correctly designed as well. So yeah, that's, I think, something that could change in the coming years.

Yeah, perfect. One thing that I think is true of people who spend a lot of time thinking about pricing and packaging is that they're interested in quite a bit. They're interested in psychology, they're interested in commerce, they're interested in communication, they're interested in both the quantitative science and the qualitative art. What do people who know you as a friend know about you and your interests? Tell us a little about you outside of all this great work you do.

Yeah, so I think, and it's maybe something that I often tend to circle back to my work and what I like to do as a founder or as a product manager. But I think what they would say is that I like to be around other people. I like to share experiences, emotions with people around me. That's kind of what drives me, gives me some energy on a regular basis. And I think this is a part of my personality that's, yeah, as I said, circles back to my job where I get to discuss with people, where I get to learn about their problems, about what their day looks like, how we can improve their days, etc., etc. So yeah, I think this is, yeah, this need to create proximity with people around me, which is, as I said, something that I tend to also recreate when I speak with prospects.

Love the idea of creating proximity. And just as somebody who's gotten to know you over LinkedIn, right? Like I think you've done a phenomenal job of building community in a really authentic way. Where can people learn more about you, learn more about Roast My Pricing Page?

Sure. So yeah, obviously I have my website, so it's roastmypricingpage.com. Www.julesmarchal.com/blog if you want to skim through the various articles I write. I have a newsletter also that you can register to directly from my website. And obviously you can really shoot me a message on LinkedIn. You can add me and yeah, on LinkedIn and also a bit on Twitter, X, but more on LinkedIn. I'll be more likely to enter on LinkedIn.

Awesome. This has been so much fun. I've learned so much. Thank you so much, Jules.

Thanks, Fynn, again for having me.