Learn How to Garden in Ohio with Annie Chubbuck

Hello, and welcome back to the Grow youw Self podcast. Today, you're gonna love our guest. Tell us your name, where you're from, the name of your business, and what you do.

Okay. My name is Annie Chubbuck. I am from Columbus, Ohio. The name of my business is Seed and Vine, and we design, build, install, and maintain kitchen gardens.

Wow. Amazing. And you do this all in Columbus, Ohio?

Yes.

Okay, so clearly you're pro on Columbus, so can you bring us through a year in the Columbus, Ohio garden? You're only going to be gardening from, like, June to August, right?

No, of course not.

Okay, let's start at the top then. Let's start with January.

Okay, so January is when we're doing a lot of the designs for the garden and prepping for spring. So there's not anything that can be planted in January. However, if you have an existing garden, there can be crops that are surviving the winter.

Oh, like what?

Kale is? Definitely. Yeah. A lot of brassicas and a lot of that stuff, too, because we don't get a ton of super cold days like they might survive with winter uncovered. We can also cover some crops to keep them going longer. Arugula, spinach, you can overwinter carrots and different root. Root crops.

Okay.

Some. A lot of herbs will continue through the winter as well. Like rosemary, like, more like hearty herbs. Like that.

Wow. So will they die back and then come back, or you're actually still out there, able to go out there and cut?

Usually I can still go out there and cut. It depends on the winter we have. We can get some therapy. Brutally cold days that might kind of kill them off, but not usually.

Amazing. Okay, bring us into February. Now it's happening.

February is the same as January, I would say.

Okay, so same, same. Are you starting anything new to get ready for spring? At this point.

You can start seeds indoors in February. You would want to do a lot of the crops that take a bit longer to grow. A lot of the Brassicas, you would want to start broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, that stuff. If you're starting seeds indoors, love it.

Okay, now bring us into March and April and let us know when your last frost date is, too.

So our projected last frost date for Columbus is not until mid May, usually.

Okay.

But in March, we do really start to get some warmer temps, and we typically will start planting in the ground outdoors, probably late March, early April, again, just kind of depending. But we can even start, I think, mid March if we're doing undercover.

Wow.

And that's all frost tolerant, like spinach, some lettuces, arugula, like all that stuff can be started.

Amazing. Okay, so now we're in frost free time.

Okay.

Now what's happening in the garden in May? Let's say May and June.

Yeah. So that's the warm season. So that's like quintessential vegetables, I guess, that people want to plant. Tomatoes, peppers, all the warm season crops like that.

They all go in in May.

Yes, they all go in usually mid May, which is when a lot of people want to start everything in their garden.

But you're way ahead.

Yeah. We do want to start those frost tolerant greens earlier because they do much better with the cooler temps.

Yes. Okay, so now we're in the summer. June, July. You've already been gardening for quite. I mean, you were picking things out of your garden in January, but now we're in June and July. So what does your garden look like in those months?

That's. I mean, it's, it's overflowing. Especially July. You know, the tomatoes have really gone crazy. Like, the garden looks very full.

Yeah.

And abundant.

Yeah.

And beautiful.

So fun. What's your favorite thing you're harvesting in July?

In July, I would say my favorite thing, actually. That's usually when we start to harvest garlic.

Oh, seriously?

That we planted in the fall.

In the fall?

Yes.

Love it.

So that's a really fun time to pull something out that you planted the previous year.

I know you're like, I totally forgot about you. But you didn't forget about me.

Exactly. Yeah. It's like a bonus. Also, actually, I love harvesting potatoes.

Oh, and when do you do that?

Typically? July.

Same time.

Yeah.

And when did you put those in?

So to me or potatoes. We put in usually in April.

Oh, in April.

Okay.

So before. Before last frost. Yep, got it. Okay. So we're in June, July. You're eating potatoes, you're eating garlic, you're having tomatoes. Your garden looks amazing. Now we're in August, September. What's happening now?

Still, we're harvesting at this point. We're harvesting a ton of. From the garden. We're doing a lot of peppers, tomatoes, probably summer squash, zucchini, yellow squash. At this point, in August you might be getting sick of harvesting.

Impossible. Can't happen.

A lot of beans too. Like everything is just like you. In August, you might be feeling overwhelmed with your harvest, but not in a bad way. I get to share with everyone and get creative with my produce.

Yeah. Because sharing is caring, right? It is. And then like, you just, you just like, got some reciprocity, right? They're gonna do something for you.

I mean, maybe, hopefully if they tasted.

Your food, tell us a really delicious meal you would make. When the harvest basket is just popping and you're like, what am I gonna do with all this good stuff? What's like a kind of simple, I could even do it dish?

Yeah. So I like the simple, fresh stuff too. So I favorite is like tomato basil. Either like a big yummy salad or even just tomato basil with like some burrata, maybe some arugula.

Yeah.

Sprinkled on top with a little like balsamic glaze.

Oh, I'm sorry. And then get like a mouth watering feeling right now.

Crusty bread and like dip it in.

Dude, you're doing it. And it's November right now. Where we're talking, what is burrata? Because that stuff is good and like, you can put any vegetable or fruit on top of of it.

It's the best.

You died and went to heaven, right? There it is. Yeah. I don't even know what that is, but this is so good. Tell us. Yeah. Okay, so burrata, tomatoes, basil, you're having that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?

Yeah.

Okay. Now we're moving to October. What's happening now?

So September and October, I would pair them up. That's when we're gonna start planting for our second cool season.

Okay.

So we want to return to those plants that we did earlier on in the season. So, you know, you can do peas, you can do some root veggies too, especially carrots if you want to overwinter them. A lot of the leafy greens again, so spinach, lettuce, arugula, kale, like all that stuff is going to make a comeback. Radishes, because those are so quick to seed, to harvest, that's when you're going to start planting that stuff. And in October, late October is when we plant our garlic.

Okay, so, so you're planting all that, would you say, like, do you have to plant it in August or can you plant it as late as September and still get it harvested before it gets too cold?

We usually do it in September.

Wow.

Yeah.

So cool. I mean, that's so late for so many people, right?

Yeah, a lot of people. Because August can still be very hot and then the plants are slow to grow anyways. So we typically wait until September. That way, like, once they get, we get like a little bit of overnight cooler temps. Like, those plants really start to take off.

I love that. That's so inspiring. When do you get like a First frost in Columbus.

Typically mid October.

Mid October. Okay. And then bring us into. You've just planted the garlic. It's like Halloween. And now we're in November and December. Would you group those two months together?

Yeah. Okay. So those. I'm still harvesting all the stuff I planted for the second cool season. So I'm gathering up all the arugula and harvesting regularly from herbs that you know are frost tolerant. And not the carrots. But, yeah, we're still just getting all the yummy. A lot of the yummy greens.

Not the carrots. Because they haven't finished yet or because they're done. So.

No. So typically, like, I would plant those probably later September to overwinter.

Oh, tell me, how do they overwinter?

So we plant them with enough time so they get, like, a decent amount of growth.

Yeah.

So maybe mid September. Ish. And then they just kind of stay in the ground all winter. And the cold temperatures actually make them super sweet, so it's almost like a refrigeration period for them.

Cool.

And then we harvest them in the spring. Like, if they need to finish growing or whatnot, they will. And then we harvest them, and they're very delicious.

So do you have to cover them up with anything when it's really cold?

If it gets really, really cold? Yeah. Might put a little cover on it or even just kind of mulch around them with, like, straw or extra compost or.

But you could just. Have you ever just let it go and let nature do its thing?

I have.

And what happened?

They were fine.

I love carrots. Those girls are strong.

Yeah.

That's amazing. Okay, so we finished the year. Are you literally harvesting all the way up until the new.

Yeah.

Seriously?

Yeah.

In Columbus, Ohio, you're going out into your garden and you're, like, picking stuff for Christmas dinner?

Yeah, if I've planted that second cool season. I am.

What would you pick?

Kale. Kale, yeah, of course. Arugula.

Okay.

Rosemary. Thyme.

Yep.

Oregano. All that stuff. Lettuce. If it's still been, you know, not super, super cold, we can still have some lettuce.

So we're talking holiday dinners. You could have salad. You could have, like, sauteed greens. You could have herb. Fresh herb dips. You could have kale wraps. Anything. Kale. Caesar salad.

Oh, yeah.

Amazing. Right in the middle of winter.

Yeah.

So inspiring. Okay, Annie, clearly you know what you're doing when it comes to gardening, especially in Columbus. So how did this happen? Like, how did you become a gardener? What. What did you do? To learn all this amazing stuff.

So I actually learned how to garden in New York City.

What? Yeah, tell us the details.

Concrete jungle.

Love it.

I lived in New York city in my 20s, and I lived in the East Village. When I first moved over, there was walking around, and there were all these little pockets of community gardens.

So cool. I saw that in Brooklyn.

They were everywhere. Like, I was in Alphabet City, like, the Far East Village. And they were. Some blocks had multiple. They were varying sizes, and it just was so cool. I thought, like, what a neat little oasis in the middle of New York City. I figured out how to join one. I joined a community garden on my block. It was, like, across the street from my building.

Wow.

And I knew nothing. They'd be like, oh, here's your row to plant. I'm like, great. How do I do that?

What a beautiful way to do it. Because you, like, you had, you know, seasoned gardeners. Right. Literally a row next to you.

Some of them had been planting in that space for 20 years.

Oh, my goodness.

And it was such an incredible way to learn. And they really did. They. They taught me everything from composting to trying to grow Brussels sprouts. Like, and they were such a wealth of knowledge. And it was. It was just. It was an incredible way to learn from others that way without, like, deep diving into Google and YouTube and trying to figure it out on my own. Like, I could actually ask someone.

Wow. So how many seasons did you get in there in the community garden?

I think I was there for maybe two and a half seasons.

Wow.

Yeah.

So two years. Two and a half. What were you doing in New York City?

I used to work in fashion.

Of course. You did. Of course. Fashion icon Annie Chubbuck.

Yeah. But it was amazing to leave my crazy busy job, come home.

Yeah.

Get my stuff, and then go sit in the garden and have a little dinner or harvest or just be amongst the plants and.

Wow.

It was like mental health game changer for me.

Was it something you did? How often would you go there?

I would go there during the week, pretty regularly. I. I took a shift once or twice a week, so. And then I could have people. We would go sit in the garden, too. If I had friends visiting or people we could have take our little dinners over there and.

Wow.

It was amazing.

What a cool story. I love it. Okay, so somehow you went from fashion designer in New York City, working in a community garden, drinking and eating with your friends on the weekends, to being a garden consultant, owner of Seed and Vine in Columbus, Ohio. So tell us in two minutes. The extreme journey you must have taken to get to that place.

Well, I moved to Columbus, Ohio, and I moved to just like a little adorable urban area. Didn't have a ton of space to work with, but I knew I had to have a garden. Like, I loved the community garden so much. I still worked in fashion, but I designed and built this, like, adorable little garden in my back, small, tiny backyard. And we got so much produce out of it. Really, it was. It was incredible. And I was like, man, like this. It just brought me so much joy. And then kind of friends and family would ask me for help. Not just gardening, but, like, how to design a functional garden. I definitely made a lot of mistakes with my first design, of course, that I learned from. And so I kind of started helping. And then I had my kids and I thought to myself, like, I think this could be a business.

Yeah.

Like, I think I'm gonna go for it.

Yeah.

And so I started, like, just on the side with coaching and diy, and then eventually grew into full service installations.

Wow. And how old were your kids when you started your business?

My youngest was, I think about six months old.

Oh, my goodness. So when did you and I. I think I met you in 2018. Yes. And you had already started your business.

Yeah. So I was just doing coaching and some DIY designs at that point, and I was feeling like I wanted to do more and scale my business, but I was feeling like I didn't know how many more DIY clients I could take on and make that happen. I found you on Instagram. I found Rooted garden.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And I thought, oh, my God. Like, this is. I want to do these designs. I want to do installation. And then, you know, I was doing some light Internet stalking, as we tend to do, and I saw that you had a program.

Yeah.

For coaching, and I was like, well, I got to do that.

And you're. This is 2023 when we're recording this. So you've hit the mark like you are a five year old plus business.

Yes.

Which is huge. We talk about this, you know, 5% of small businesses make it that far. So amazing with a six month old, nonetheless. So cool. Okay, so you've been around the block for a few times. I'm sure you've had so many clients you've gotten to work with. Tell us a story of one of your favorite clients that you've gotten to garden with.

It's hard to pick. Of course, I really lucked out and had some amazing clients that I've Connected with and really, like, you know, felt like when I built the garden, like, wanted to continue to touch base and be their friends.

Yeah.

I would say one of my best, most favorite would be someone I worked with. She was one of my first installation clients in 2020 height of the pandemic.

Wow.

We did everything virtually. We had a virtual consult, and then I separately went to her space to take measurements. Never met her in person. Yeah. Didn't see each other in person. She had triplet boys.

Oh, my goodness.

So we connected on the motherhood level, and she wanted a space for her and them. And we designed this beautiful stone kitchen garden.

I think I know which one you're talking about.

Right in her front yard. And I feel like she really took a chance on me and the garden ended up being just so beautiful. She's still a maintenance client to this day, which I love. Yeah. I found out she's moving, and she's already. We're already planning to build and install her next kitchen garden.

Oh, that is amazing.

So I feel like she's been with me since the very beginning and trusted me to do a larger scale garden, which felt really good.

That is so cool. So amazing. And those people, when you get to meet them at certain stages of their life and then you watch their garden grow and their families and lives grow, too.

Yeah.

Do you ever feel like you're like a therapist? You know what I mean? It's like we have these connections with people and a totally deeper way.

Yeah, for sure.

I love it. Yeah. Okay. Well, bring us the knowledge, Annie. I mean, you've already schooled me on carrots. Overwintering carrots, which I love. But teach me something. Teach the people something. Give us, like, a step by step on how to grow a certain plant. Something you love, something you think we will love.

Okay. I'm trying to think because I want to. I want to do something exciting.

I know. It's so hard. My favorite. My favorite plant is exciting.

I know. Actually, let's do potatoes, because that is. That's a fun one.

Love it.

Let's go. So basically, you start in the cool season with your potatoes, and you can get seed potatoes from a local nursery. And they look like potatoes, but they've.

Got, like, you can't believe this, but they actually look like potatoes.

Look exactly like potatoes that have grown. Like, the little eyes on them, like the little sprouts, they're a little shriveled. Don't eat them. And we cut those.

Okay.

You want to have, like, one of the eyes at least One cut.

Got it.

And then you dig down about 4 to 6 inches. I always eyeball it. And then we put the little pieces in, usually 12 inches apart.

Got it.

Sometimes they say to do it 18 to 20. 18 inches to 24 inches. No, I found that that's not necessary. So I usually do about a foot apart.

Okay. Are you in a raised bed or you in the ground?

Raised bed.

Okay, cool.

I've done it in the ground, too, but I prefer in the raised bed. The soil's much easier to work with and dig into. And I feel like we get a better harvest also because you have the looser soil.

Very cool. All right, so we've dug down a foot.

Six inches.

Six inches. We're putting them a foot apart.

A foot apart, yes. Yes. One little potato piece per hole. You want the sprouts up. Cover them with dirt, and then you have to be patient.

That's so hard to do.

And you can't see the growth.

That's also so hard to do.

So almost every year, I question whether or not I did it right. Me too. Anything will grow.

Yes.

And I get very impatient.

And do you dig up and, like, check one?

I don't.

You don't?

I wait.

That's self control, Annie. I'm impressed.

You gotta have faith in nature.

I love the faith in nature. Let's put that down as a quote that Annie said right here. You gotta have faith in nature.

Trust nature.

Love it.

And just when you've given up hope, usually you get a little. You get the little sprouts. It's greenery.

Yeah.

So they start to come up. There's some leaves and foliage, and then from there, I feel like they kind of start to take off.

Okay.

So the foliage starts to get nice and big.

Yep.

And then you want to start to hill up the stems.

What's that mean?

So basically, with dirt, I use compost. You are, like, kind of just putting mounds. You want to cover up more of the foliage still leave some sticking up. You can do, like, six inches or so of the foliage.

Okay.

And then you leave it. And that helps protect the. The tubers that are growing. You don't want them exposed to sunlight.

Okay.

And it encourages growth because they get green and they get better. And you don't want to get it.

It's just bad, bad, bad.

Yeah, yeah.

The tubers can't get sun.

No, they do not want sun.

They get sunburnt.

Yes. And then the foliage just continues to grow and grow. I usually hill up probably about. One more time.

Okay.

They get pretty tall. Probably about 2ft tall or so, I'd say. Yeah.

That's big.

Not great with measurements, but sounds fun.

I'm liking your.

I'm liking your estimation. Yeah.

About the size of a toddler, right?

Yes. And they get these really pretty, like, flowers on them. Sometimes purplish, sometimes white. And you have to be patient again.

Yep. Oh, gosh. So much patience. Annie, you're asking a lot of me.

I'm so sorry.

Gosh. Okay, More patience.

More patience.

What's the white flower mean?

You know, it's just getting closer.

Oh, it's a sign. It's a sign.

The flowers are a good sign.

The patience is going to end.

That you're getting there.

The patience will not last forever.

Yes, but don't harvest it yet.

Don't touch it yet.

Yeah.

Okay.

You want to wait until the foliage kind of looks like it's starting to die.

Oh.

Kind of starts getting scraggly.

So it's going to die.

The foliage will start, too.

Seriously?

Yes.

Okay, so when's this happening?

This is probably happening in July.

Oh, in July.

Yes.

All right. And so they're gonna start to, like, turn brown. Yellowing. The leaves are gonna.

Yellowing. Yeah. Just overall not looking super healthy.

And then you're sad.

But don't worry.

Don't worry.

Yes.

What's happening?

The energy of the plant is going into the tubers.

What? Yes. Plants are geniuses, aren't they? They're literally dying, and then they're surviving at the same time.

Yes. And so there's this whole other thing happening underground.

Uh, yes. Too cool.

Which is really cool.

It is so cool. Cause, like, you know those days where we feel like crap and, like, ugh, I'm dying.

Yeah.

It's just our roots. We're getting some. Some nutrients. Right?

Yeah. That happens.

I love it. Okay, so everything looks so blah and terrible on top.

Yes.

But we should not lose heart. No, but how long do we have to wait to see the. Like, with. How long do we have to look at the blah before we dig up?

So some people say about two weeks after they kind of start looking like that.

Yeah.

I like to follow my heart.

Oh, that's really great. That's a great way to garden, Annie. Follow your heart, girl.

Depending where I'm at in my patience.

Level, you're like, what is my heart saying today?

I look at, and I'm like, do you have potatoes for me yet? And then I just follow my heart.

I love it. This is follow your heart gardening advice from Annie Chubbuck.

Yes. And you learn. Like, I might then get impatient and dig up and see what's happening. And if, you know, one plant doesn't look ready, then I will leave the rest.

Oh, okay. Okay. So now is when you test it. Not earlier in the spring when you were doubting yourself.

No.

Okay. So you dig up one, and you're like, oh, there's only, like, one potato here.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I would wait then maybe wait for, like, the two weeks.

All right. So I planted this little thing you told me to cut off. It just had this little eye. And then that was in April.

Yeah.

And now this is July. So April to May, May to June, June to July. We're only talking three months of patience. Yeah, we can handle that. And then when I pull on this dead thing, how many potatoes am I expecting to see?

You get a lot out of one plant. So we pull. I pull from the base of the stem.

Okay.

The soil in raised beds are nice and loose, which makes it a bit easier. And then you'll see on the roots are the actual potatoes. So it depends on the variety. Like fingerlings, you're gonna get a lot more per plant.

Cause they're so little.

Yes. Than if you're doing the larger potatoes. And then I also check the soil. So I dig in the soil, make sure I didn't miss any little potato presents.

Cause those little roots tenderling, they're, like, very fragile. Right. So with a little tug, they might leave a heavy potato in the dirt. And then that would be so sad. You wouldn't get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you kind of dig around, and it's like you find, like, little present every time you're excited.

It's like digging for gold. You're just digging for potatoes. Potatoes, yeah. Spuds, something like that. So can I get five potatoes out of one little.

No, probably a lot more than that.

Seriously?

Yeah.

Six, seven, eight.

Well, for fingerlings, you'd probably get, I don't know, 15.

Oh, yeah. I always tell people, if you're growing something small, you'll get a lot. If you're growing something big, you'll get less.

Yeah.

Right. So same kind of idea, right?

Yeah.

Okay. So awesome. And then. And then we're done. And then we just. Can we eat it right away?

No, you're gonna want to cure them.

What does that mean?

So I don't know all the technical words.

Well, you know, I'm so technical, so that's really offensive.

But I think it's something with the skin.

Yeah.

Right.

We're just letting it all settle in.

Yeah. The sugars and the potatoes, you need to let them rise.

Let a little chemical. Chemical reaction happen out of the soil.

Yes.

Give it a day, two days, a week.

I think two weeks is what they say. Yeah. So I kind of. You want them in a dry area, a warm, dry spot. So you can do that in your house. I put them kind of on little, like, old screens. Like little screens to kind of. So they get the dirt off.

Airflow.

Yeah, the dirt off. I don't wash them or anything at that.

Water.

No.

Got it.

So let them cure, and then they're ready to go.

French fries. For days and weeks and years. Last night I went home and my mom had made the most delicious smashed potatoes with cheddar cheese on top in the broiler. From potatoes. I did just what you said.

Oh, that's amazing.

Yeah. And literally, Annie, they've been sitting in a basket since July. So what are we in November? August. September, October, November. There's no way grocery store potatoes would have waited on me. Right. But these things were delish. We had two pans, and my kids, my husband, myself, we ate up.

Oh, that's amazing.

And now everyone that's listening knows how to do it too, so cool. All right, so I have two questions left for ya. So if you could turn back time and go back to Annie, fashionista Annie in New York City, and tell her some advice before she started to garden, what would you tell her?

I think I would tell her to believe in herself more. That. She can do hard things and figure it out, and that she doesn't need to suffer from imposter syndrome or self doubt and just. We're not gonna have all the answers, but we will figure it out, and we will, you know, come out on the other side.

What if you could have met her? You know how I just watched Loki and he's like, time slipping, I think it's called?

Oh, yeah.

What if you could, like, slip back, like, you yourself right now could go to her and be like, hey, you're now in fashion. But, like, what. What year was that when you were in New York City?

Ooh, that's a good question. So I moved to Columbus in 2013. Okay. So it was like 2006 until then.

Oh, wow. So 17 years ago. What if you right now could go to her and be like, so in 17 years, you're going to be living in Columbus, Ohio. Your kids are going to be in school, and you are going to be the owner of a huge gardening business. And you're going to be helping people all over your city create the most beautiful gardens.

I would be like, wait, what?

Right? It is unbelievable.

Yeah.

Like, who could even come up with that story?

Not me.

I love it. Well, I think your story is amazing. You've always inspired me. You're one of the OG garden consultants. I can still remember chatting with you on Instagram in 2018. And I'm so inspired by what you do. What's your big dream? What's the legacy you want to leave behind from what you're doing right now?

So I'd say, you know, my overarching goal is to continue to support my community. Columbus is so, so great at supporting local small businesses, local foods. I love the community, feel there. And I want to continue to support that community, support our local food system, support nature. That's, I think, my. My biggest goals. That. That's what feels good to me. And I. I hope to keep doing it.

I love it. That's a huge goal. And what an amazing future you're creating for your kiddos who are now how old?

Six and eight?

Yeah. I mean, can you imagine what they're getting to watch you get up and do every day? So awesome.

Yeah.

Okay. So all the people are listening and they all want to find you and get your help. Not just with potatoes, but we all want that beautiful stone garden. So tell us where to find you online.

So I do have a website. It's seedandvine Co. Seedandvine Co. Got it. Yep. And then also I am on Instagram as seedandvineco.

Seedandvine company with the A N D. Yes. Perfect. Her name is Annie Chubbuck. Her website is gorgeous. You're going to want to follow her just for the garden inspiration, if nothing else. Thank you. And do you like, what could you do for the listener? How could you help them in the garden?

So we do really like to provide our clients with a lot of knowledge. We do not just want to build a garden and then say, okay, bye, see you, good luck. So we do support with knowledge. We offer free coaching sessions with each installation and then an option to continue with maintenance and, like, learning in different ways. So we want everyone to be able to grow food at home and feel comfortable and confident doing it in a way that feels accessible to them, their lives, and, you know, you know, without feeling so overwhelming, but in a beautiful space, too, that they want to spend time in.

Yeah. Confident and beautiful.

Yeah.

And delicious. That's what you get when you call Annie Chubbuck with seed and vine thank you so much for hanging out with me. Thank you for inspiring us and teaching me how to grow potatoes. You guys go follow Annie, check out her, her, her incredible Instagram and her website. And if you're anywhere near Columbus, Ohio, you got to get her company to come to your home, your business, your school, wherever you're listening from and transform it into a beautiful and delicious place.

Yeah.

Thank you for joining me. I love you so much.

Thank you.

Thanks for listening to the Grow youw Self podcast and we'll see you next time. Thanks so much for listening to the Grow youw Self Podcast Podcast. You can keep listening anywhere. You love getting your podcast delivered on Apple podcasts on Spotify, iHeartRadio, you name it, we are there for you. And if you want to read the notes and get our free resources to help you grow more, you can go to gardenary.com podcast.