Lehigh Univ and Moravian Univ (PA): Financial Health & Viability Review for Colleges & Communities

Welcome to the College Financial Health Show with Matt Hendricks and Gary Stocker, where each Tuesday morning, 10:30 AM Central, we're live and we're talking about the financial health and viability of private colleges across the country. Dr. Matt Hendricks, always a pleasure to do this show with you. What colleges are we looking at today, sir?

Yeah, we have two in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, I believe is the town. They're both in the same town, about 2 miles apart. Lehigh University and Moravian University. And I'll jump right into it. The, my general sense is that both of these schools are doing okay, although they do have deficits to deal with, but long runways, both of them. And I'll give some hints on how they can fix their deficits. As we go along, and you'll see sort of my logic and how I use this tool. And you can do it for yourself as well, so I encourage you to do that. So I'll put, uh, Moravian here. I'm going to do these at the same time. Moravian will be the blue school, right? So the blue line will be Moravian, and the green— it'll be green— will be Lehigh. So we can analyze them on the same graphs. Um, and here's what I just mentioned: they both have deficits, right? Again, not normal to have these net income losses at these levels particularly Moravian, the blue line. Uh, since, uh, since the COVID relief, they've really struggled to balance the budget, it appears. Um, and again, they may say that their budget is balanced, but it's clearly not. Uh, your budget needs to include depreciation and stuff like— it needs to be on a full accrual basis. So 3 years in a row with negative net income is not a balanced budget. Um, Lehigh Lehigh, on the other hand, has, has only had a negative year like twice in the last 10, which 2024 was a bad year. But this school has a massive runway. I'm not, I'm not worried. I'm not worried about either of these schools really. But you do need to get these balanced right. And it's the board's job to make sure that they get balanced. They certainly don't want to do it for 3 years in a row like Moravian. I'm not concerned about a 1-year blip. Uh, actually would be a 2-year blip for Lehigh. But, um, uh, let's, let's get into examining why they have these deficits and what they can do about it and check some other financial indicators first. So one of the key indicators we check usually is the health of the endowment. Is the endowment growing normally? Because it can be misleading. Again, that net income number can be misleading if, if people pull out— schools pull out abnormally large amounts of their endowment. And support operations. Neither of these schools, it appears, is— that is the case. Both have endowments that are growing relatively normally. Uh, Lehigh's up 64%, Moravian's up 72%, but it's only because of what happened here in 2024. And I was really curious about that. Uh, they— so just what we talked about last week, Gary, there's opportunities to acquire other schools, right? Let's just be blunt about it. They acquired another school. Yeah, they acquired Lancaster Theological Seminary, and out of the deal, it looks like they got $28 million in net assets, right, which went into their endowment. Most of it went into their endowment, which is the big jump here— 72% growth in the endowment, uh, which would have probably been, you know, right at the median had they not done the acquisition, but now they're well above it. So interesting, uh, they made that acquisition. I'll show you the draws look, um The draws look normal for both schools, although Lehigh was high for a long time, but it looks like they brought that down to normal levels. And then this big jump here, I, I'm guessing— I didn't double-check this, but I'm guessing they had to pull some money out to get the acquisition done. There's a lot of costs, right, for acquiring. But at the end of the day, they come— they came away with $28 million in net assets, uh, minus some costs of getting the deal done, I suppose. But, uh, that looks fine for just one year to do that. At the end of the day, the endowment went way up. Okay, so, so they both have deficits. Both endowments look fine. Another thing I check is unrestricted net assets to see like what kind of runways these schools have. And Lehigh's is ridiculous. They have $1.3 billion in unrestricted net assets. That is amazing. And all the other schools in the country, for the most part, are way down here. I think Lehigh out. Actually, I double-click. I'm going to take Lehigh out just so I can see the view here. Okay, so $89 million is not something to laugh at, but it's, you know, certainly far lower than Lehigh. So they have $89 million in unrestricted net assets. It's good, much better than a lot of schools that we've looked at. What I'd like to see is growth in these net assets, unrestricted net assets, and Lehigh is growing perfectly sort of a little bit above normal, but Moravian is not. So the unrestricted net assets are falling relative to the median school here. And again, this is not adjusted for inflation. So in real terms, their net unrestricted net assets are probably far less than they were in 2016. I don't have the exact number of how much inflation we've experienced over this period, but it's certainly double digit, right, Gary? I mean, yeah, yeah, we had years of like 10, right? So 10%. So this isn't great. So again, this goes back to having those deficits, right? That's one of the main reasons your unrestricted net assets won't grow is because you're running deficits. You're sort of eating up your net assets. And yeah, they're not growing. So you'll start falling behind when you do that. But you notice the sort of uptick here in the slope. Again, that's probably part of that acquisition.

Yeah.

All right. So jump up there. Their net assets a little bit. Yeah, about $4 million in unrestricted, but it looked like most of the acquisition was restricted net assets that go into the endowment. But I could probably show that here. Let's do total net assets. There we go. Yeah, I went from $225 to $264. That's a pretty big jump. It's hard to see because we have Lehigh here, but yeah, this jump here is significant. All right. And percent change. Yeah. With— I mean, without that big acquisition, they would have been falling behind on net assets as well. But now they're right in there at the median level. So I guess this is like a warning to the school that, you know, without this, this jump here, without this acquisition, they really would be falling quite, quite far behind. So this is a great move by them, but they need to follow it up by also balancing the budget. Right. And making sure that they're growing normally. So Moravian is showing some signs of stress minus the acquisition, which is sort of saving some of these numbers. If we look at CapEx, it's another key indicator that we check for financial health. And again, Moravian showing signs of financial stress. You want this number to always be above 1 or at least above 1 on aggregate. And it looks like if you go for on aggregate since like 2018, it's not aggregating up above 1. This was probably part of the acquisition. These are really low CapEx spends here.

Yeah.

So again, this is an indication that perhaps their physical plant is, is suffering. So let's take a look at property, plant and equipment. By the way, Lehigh looks great. Lots of investment going on there. I just want to just take a look at how their physical plant has been changing. Yeah.

Okay.

So their physical plant has grown normally. But really, if you look at that cutoff since 2019, their physical plant has actually shrunk in value. Value, which is not ideal. All right, again, not adjusted for inflation. Um, so they have a low CapEx spend. Again, it's another thing you usually see at schools that are struggling financially. This is perfect. Lehigh is growing and investing in their physical plant, and it's excellent. Okay, so several signs that Moravian is not, uh, perfectly sound financially, but certainly has a long runway. I don't want to scare anybody. Do revenues first. So how have revenues grown for these two schools? Both are doing amazing. Both revenues are up over 34%.

You got—

you're up 37% from Moravian and up 34%, uh, on Lehigh. That's excellent. The mean is 17%, so excellent revenue growth for both schools. Um, and So remember these numbers. We have 34%.

37, 34.

Yep, 37, 34. All right, so here's, here's the problem though with the math, um, why they both have deficits. You can probably guess what's going to happen here. Yeah, yeah, uh, Moravian's expenses are up 49%, which is way off by itself. Actually, both of these schools are off by themselves in terms of expense growth. So I mean, if you grow your— if you grow your revenues by 30%, it's great, but you grow your expenses by 50%, Not so—

that's great. Yeah, that's great.

What's happening, right? Um, for both of these schools, so 43% expense growth for Lehigh versus I think they had 33% revenue growth, right? So that's pretty good now. Um, and 50% expense growth versus what was it, 37, Gary?

My 37.

Yeah, 49 versus 37 I think is—

yes.

So So in my mind, the story here is really clear. Both of them are doing amazing on the revenue side. So the story here is that they have spending problems, to put it just plainly for everybody. They both have accelerated their spending far faster than revenues, even though revenues are growing really, really well in the top, nearly top 75% or top 25% of the country. Okay, so let's take a look at a little bit about how they're growing their revenues. I like to focus in on net tuition revenue because it's such a key, key source of revenue for both schools. And this is just unbelievable. Like, both of them are in the top 25% in terms of net tuition revenue growth, which is shocking to me because we've seen so many schools nearby that are struggling, right? Like, these aren't very far from schools like Rider and Drew. And we had some last week in Pennsylvania, right? Lafayette and, um, yes, Lafayette was doing great, but the other one wasn't. I can't remember. It's hard to keep all these straight at this point. But, uh, you certainly got to be happy with 33% net tuition revenue growth, or 38% in the case of Moravian. Um, that's, that's amazing. Uh, so how are they growing their net tuition revenue? Well, this is actually interesting because the two schools have a little bit different strategy in how they've done it. You can see green is Lehigh. This is a massive increase in price. All right. So it went from $27,000 to $34,000. I did the math on that. That's per student FTE, right?

Right.

Per student net tuition revenue. So that's the average price, roughly what students are paying for tuition and fees. And what is that? That's up 30— that's up 21%. Just in the price. So that explains a good chunk— most of the, the reason that tuition revenue is growing at Lehigh is because the price is higher. Um, but at Moravian, it's a little different. Their price is actually flat, pretty flat. It's like 2 or 3% up. Uh, the main reason they're growing is enrollment's grown. Well, so let's take a look at students. Actually, both of them are growing in enrollment, but Moravian much more. Yeah, this is great. Moravian's up. So the acquisition gave them some students too. So, but even without the acquisition, they're doing amazing enrollment growth. They're up 34% on enrollments. Lehigh's up 9%. But so you see the math, right? One, one school has increased net tuition revenue by increasing enrollment. The other one increased net tuition revenue by mostly increasing price. Two different levers that do basically the same thing on your books, on the books. How it happens, right? Um, at the end of the day, it's revenue. Um, all right, so both of them again, awesome on the revenue side. It was the expense side that appeared to be sort of out of control for both schools in terms of growth and even exceeding the high revenue growth that they're experiencing. So let's take a look at what's happening on the expense side for both of these, starting with employees. And I'll kind of go through what I normally do for these. Check the— I'm checking expenses relative to their revenues, right? You kind of want your, you know, align obviously your spending with your revenue. And also we look, check that the spending is aligned with the student size, student body size. So very interesting. Lehigh's staffing is very low for how wealthy they are. But Moravian's is high. All right, so, so you could have, uh, potential overstaffing issues showing up here for Moravian that have not been addressed. Um, and but Lehigh's the opposite, right? They just appear to have a very small staff. Um, and the same, same is true per FTE, right? Lehigh, very small staff, although Moravian's staff size relative to their student body is more in line with the norm. But again, relative to revenue, it's a bit high. Let's take a look at some different cuts of this. Higher-end employees paid over $100K. Let's look at relative to revenue. And here's where things get interesting. So remember, we just saw that Lehigh had a really small staff, but they have a lot of staff over $100K. So they have a small staff, but a lot of people making over $100K and far, far more than normal. So that's, it's kind of interesting. I start wondering if perhaps the distribution of the employees is a little bit weird. Lehigh is a very different school in terms of assets. You compare them to like some of their peer sets here, better peers than Moravian, but something to look at. And that's what we do with the strategic compass for sure. The employee count for Moravian again looks pretty good here for the top-end employees, contractors. And here's where Moravian is probably starting to have some issues. Looks like we've got an explosion of contractor usage, and I've seen that was associated with the merger. It could have been part of— yeah, right, right. So to be fair to them, this could have been hiring all these accountants and lawyers and people to get all the stuff done for the merger. It's possible. Um, It's less clear why that would happen in 2013 and 2022, well before the merger happened, but it's possible. But at any rate, this is high, right? Whether— if it comes back down next year to the median, that's great. If not, we got something lingering here.

All right.

All right. I took off Lehigh, but I think I wanted to talk about them. Yeah.

Okay.

So Actually, that looks normal for the revenue. And for student body size though, it's really big. So, so you can see the difference in how these schools operate. Lehigh appears to have low staff, high contractor kind of makeup, and, uh, Moravian is more sort of median on both.

Yeah.

Um, compensation.

Yeah.

Okay, so Moravian may have some staffing issues, so we we're seeing here that again, this is the compensation for directors and sort of upper admin levels. And the number they have is, is higher than normal for the revenue. It looks like they had a big jump here in the pandemic. That's right around COVID.

Yeah.

Went up by $1.3 million just for compensation of officers. So I would check what happened here. This is not— that's not the right mix. Generally of— you might have a top-heavy, top-heavy staffing here in terms of upper admin. Let's see, other employee salaries.

Okay.

Again, the salaries overall look okay. But again, Moravian has those chronic deficits. I would try to right-size this, pull the staff numbers down, particularly the ones over $100K, and they probably get back to normal on the staffing side.

And you can identify those with the Strategic Compass.

Yeah, Strategic Compass, we can identify which occupations, which get really close to identifying which titles, departments those folks might be located in. Here's one that was really interesting. This is other employee benefits. So these are, these are benefits going to non-officers and they're not retirement contributions. So this is like health, dental, life insurance, that kind of stuff. And both of them are very, very high on— even though, remember, remember, sorry, Lehigh had a very small staff size, yet their benefit spend is very high relative to their revenue. And per FTE, I'm sure it's going to be off the charts. Yeah. So Lehigh needs to check, I would say, a lot of their expense pain could be coming from not just like staffing, general staffing issues, but just the benefits package. And again, this is the non-retirement contribution part. This is the other part. So I'd double-check that. It's been chronically high a long time, whereas Moravian has just all of a sudden become very high there. Uh, I don't know, it's hard to say if maybe they needed to adopt a new, um, I don't know what to say about this because the merger actually didn't become official, I don't think, until after this fiscal year. So at any rate, they need to check this out. That's a lot of money to be spending on benefits. $8.4 million, and it's not retirement benefits. Um, yeah, it's hard to explain that. Check it out. You could find— I've had clients find that their health insurance plan is just not ideal, um, overly expensive. Get other bids from other health insurers. There could be other quirky things in there that I'm not thinking about right off the top of my head right now. Right on the advertising front, it looks okay for, for Lehigh, but again, high on advertising for Moravian. You can see the theme here. A lot of this stuff is high for Moravian.

Yeah.

High again on IT spend at Moravian. I mean, there's just a lot of stuff that probably needs to be right-sized there. Insurance looks fine. Here's one that was a pain point at Lehigh. This is occupancy costs. This is renting stuff, utilities, things like that. They need to double-check this. This is above the 75th percentile even for their massive revenue, right? So they're spending a ton on occupancy. And again, you can put in your other peers here, closer peers than Arabian, and see that this is probably way out of line. Occupancy, again, utilities, renting. They renting some buildings? It's not clear. If you're renting buildings, why not just build some more? Maybe these questions that they can address and this sort of motivates that work. Here's another one. Office expenses way off the charts. This is like printing, postage. I've got them all right here. Office expenses. Paper, um, telephone, and mailing expenses. Like, how does that get so high? This is, uh, $20— $34 million, and it's just skyrocketed. It used to be really stable at— which is really high still— $21 million, but now it's way higher, $34 million almost. So I— again, something to check here. You're a CFO, check this. Something doesn't look right with the office expenses. You know, there's budgeting for this, right? We have budgeting for how much paper we could use and stuff like that. If they don't have that, you might implement that. Let's see, fundraising. Both are very high on fundraising expenses. And again, so the best analysis to do here is to check the ROI on the fundraising expenses. Look at Moravian's going up and up and up. And, you know, you can check Gift revenue. Let's see how good I have here for gift revenue percent change. Yeah, so maybe there's some justification for the higher spend here. But let's take a look at the raw values too. I mean, there, you need to do a sophisticated analysis here because you went from $1.5 million on fundraising to all of a sudden you doubled the fundraising budget. Now $3 million. But Gifts did not double.

All right.

Yeah, that's a problem. Just doing the math quickly in my head, that says you don't have a problem if you don't— if you double the expense and you don't double the revenue, you're falling behind, right? So I would double check that. Maybe not exactly that, right, what I just said, but it doesn't look right. It's all I can do here. The 20 minutes I've got to talk about this, but we can do a deep dive on this kind of work. But the cool thing about these tools is it tells you where to look, right? Look at your fundraising expenses, look at the occupancy costs, look at the office expenses. See travel, both look fine on travel for their revenue. And okay, here's the vendor spend. For vendor spend appears to be an issue for Lehigh. So I'll show you some of the vendors that they need to look at. Oops, I passed it. Um, so there's a few vendor contracts that look odd for Lehigh, and I suspect they can right-size some of these. Same for Moravian. The food service contracts looks a little bit high. That's not terrible, actually. We just did one last week that was $4,500 per student, like, consistently. Uh, so that's not a big issue. But this one is high. This is $12 million for janitorial. That's high for both their size and revenue. I just wonder if some of that's not getting thrown into the office expense category or something like that. So I'll double-check this. Again, really easy thing to do here, just go get some more estimates on this. You got this same vendor for years and maybe it's not right, right? This cost may not be right. Has anybody checked it recently and gotten new bids? I mean, they've had it for a long, long time. Since 2016 at least, and it just keeps increasing. You might check another vendor there. Same for this contract. This contract doesn't show up in the, in '24, but I'm certain it's there, almost certain. The reason it's not showing up is it's a $4 million landscaping contract, but the smallest contract is $4 million, a little above that. So it's probably still there at nearly $4 million for landscaping. Again, that's really, really, really high for landscaping. Double-check that. Has anybody double-checked these? Brightview? I mean, just ask questions. If you're not in the administration, ask your administration, have we gotten new bids for maintenance and landscaping, janitorial in the last 10 years? And maybe it's time for a new estimate. Okay, easy stuff. All right. Moravian. Same thing on Moravian with the food service a bit high, but that's not terrible. This one, though, I'm curious about. $1 million, $1.1 million for— it appears to be a vendor. I just need to learn a lot more about this because you're spending $1.1 million. That's a lot. It's a big portion of your operating budget. For consulting. And this is for consulting for online courses, it says right there. Okay, so there's lots to unpack there. What was the value generated by this? Does it generate more than $1.1 million? Have they actually launched this? Was there also costs for the in-house staff to design these courses, or was it all done by this extension engine? There's a lot of questions that I would ask if I were a board member or just working at the school about this and what stages of that. If they're not doing that, which they probably are, I'm just saying, uh, from just seeing this now that this is something that needs to be scrutinized, um, and see, yeah, food service might get more bids again. Other than that, looks okay. So Moravian, mostly staffing, a little bit on the, the vendor side, and mostly vendor side it looks like for, and other kinds of office expenses and stuff like that showing up that look bizarre for Lehigh.

So Matt, we've got two colleges in Pennsylvania doing well on the revenue side, and Moravian more so, more so than Lehigh, has issues with expenses, and in part it is associated with compensation. What about the challenges that not just these two colleges face but other colleges face in lowering their expenses and keeping their faculty happy?

Yeah, it's, right, everybody wants to grow, hire more, hire more. I mean, I was a department chair, right? And even if I didn't need more faculty, I'd probably lobby for more faculty, right? That's your job. So I think the best way to do it, and one of my deans did it this way, she was really transparent with data showing you other departments that needed faculty more than we did in econ. I appreciated that, and I certainly appreciate, you know, understood that, yeah, we weren't first in line for a new faculty line, right? Other departments were in worse shape. I would take the same— if I were a president or CFO, I would take the same approach, right? And for the most part, I think reasonable people, if you show them rigorous analytics, will appreciate that and say, yeah, that's true. Yeah, we have a spending issue. We need to sort of bring this down. And understand the stuff that you're doing.

And talk, and talk about how the Strategic Compass briefly talk about how the Strategic Compass would do that for a college.

Yeah. So the Strategic Compass looks similar to this, right? Just get a login and anybody, you can share the login with whoever you want and you can see everything. The, the beauty of it, you saw what I was doing with this app is I can robot check robustness of lots of different results in the Strategic Compass. It's very It's quite robust. There's a lot of regression results. You can check different peer sets. You can do any kind of custom peer set you want and check how sensitive results are to different assumptions. And then it's all really— there's projections of where you should be versus where you're at given the peer set and using regression analytics. So it's like state of the art. And I think it sort of balances out the rigor we need to make these decisions and not do them incorrectly with also having transparency. So that's that's really where the tool excels. And I, again, I encourage, I think I've said this before, I encourage every client of mine to share it widely. And, you know, when you're going to do difficult things like reduce the size of your faculty or staff, they're going to want to know why, right? No better way to show them why than just to show them on the dashboard and give them access to it. Let them play with the data and see that you're not making this up, right? These are real things that need to be done. I don't like it, but we got to do it, right? I have to make—

and for these two colleges and anybody else watching this or others, um, I'll leave my contact information in the show notes. We'll set up a private one-on-one demo, not of your college, but we'll show you what that strategic compass could do across faculty lines, non-faculty lines, part-time, full-time expenses, endowments, admissions trends, all those kind of things. So if you're interested in how you could use that data Matt's talking about to justify with data, the decisions that you make, drop me a note and I'll be sure to set up a private one-on-one demo, answer your questions and concerns, and take it from there. Matt, let's take a look then at— let's take a look at the 2025 College Viability app. And you can see I've got both of our colleges there, and, and no surprise, both of them are doing quite well in graduating students, well above the 50% threshold, Matt, that we have here at College Viability. They are to be commended. Let's take a look at Admission Geo, because probably both of these colleges are somewhat selective. And, you know, when you look at admissions yield for those— for these two, Lehigh with, with the exceptional endowment, their admissions yield is pretty high. Not as high as some of the higher elites, but not bad at all. Lehigh, Moravian, a little bit less than that. And both have trended down a little bit, but Matt, we've seen that across the country for all sorts of colleges. Let's take a look at how much of the store they're giving away. This is something called unfunded institutional grants. Matt, you and I know that as merit aid and most scholarships. And we can see that from 2016 to 2023, the Lehigh spent an additional $50 million, or in 2023, $115 million and change. Moravian, excuse me, Moravian, $43 million. So they are using those discounts to get students in the door. Nothing wrong with that. Both of them can afford that. And as we saw, Matt, both of them had nice revenue increases. And I would take a look then finally at something I always use kind of to quality control your stuff, Matt. And, and this is a field you saw Matt show. I think he had it as net tuition revenue. And this is from IPEDS. Matt is from— Matt's is from IPEDS as well, is that right, Matt?

Audits.

From the audits. Okay, so two different data sources, but again, both colleges have been able to increase their tuition. And as Matt shared, Lehigh much more significantly than Moravian. But you can see the pattern— both of these colleges are doing well. And of course, we have the College Majors Completion app, and this is one of the hidden gems, I think, of what Matt and I do. And Matt, I've done it a little bit different this week because we have two really strong colleges. We're going to look at master's degree this week, Matt, instead of the bachelor's degrees for both of our colleges. This is internal market share, and we can see where Moravian has strong numbers on the graduate level side, modest numbers, and we have to wonder what they're thinking in terms of some of these graduate programs with lower enrollment numbers. These are majors that are completed in these disciplines. For Lehigh, it's the same thing, go down the bottom, and again we can see they clearly have a specialty in educational administration, some nice strong numbers there, about 20%, up as high as 25% of their graduate volume is in educational administration. They have some strong programs as well. And again, now we see this on the, on the undergraduate level as well as the graduate level, so many colleges having small numbers And you've heard me many times beg the question, you really need to think about continuing. If you're looking to manage expenses, and Matt, you talked about that a lot today, this is an area where colleges can do this. And then finally, we want to look at external market share. And this is the kind of external market share analysis, Matt, that every other industry does. And what I have done, I've set it up for all of the private colleges in Pennsylvania, and we're going to start with accounting. And these are all the colleges that account in 2023. And their market share percentage. And this is a cute little pie chart that we've shown here, and we've got this for accounting and accounting-related services. I'm going to zoom in so we can see it easier. And again, we can see some major players, and I can hover over the top and see Drexel is a major player in accounting services. I can see the St. Joseph's as well. And again, Matt, you're probably going to turn off your volume now because you heard me say this so many times— look at all the small bit players in these majors. And for better or for worse, I make the case that these volumes are too small to provide the same kind of quality, same kind of education as these higher volume colleges can provide. And we can look at different disciplines. I wanted to look at biology, just biology. So biology, same pattern. And I'm going to go down—

whoops—

I'm going to look at sociology, kind of goes on a liberal arts topic here. And sociology, anthropology, right, not as many players. And all, with the exception of whichever college this is, Robert Morris, have decent market shares. Let's look at social work, which is connected. And again, we see that same pattern. And, and Matt, what I'm talking about with this kind of data points is the comparisons. And you and I have talked about this many, many, many times. It's the comparisons that matter. And before I wrap things up today, here is the new tool that you and I have access to, Matt. It's at mycollegeviability.com, and you can actually see a free report, free dashboard report on any of the private colleges in the country. I've got Lehigh up here for one of ours, and we can view the dashboard. And this is the paid version I'm showing you now, but the private version, the free version, is available also. So we're looking at Lehigh University, some basic information here. This is again the paid report, and then all the analysis you would expect about this college, the value for the degree and how it compares with others, the quality of the experience, the return on investment, and much, much, much more. So Matt, what we're looking at here is a tool that can be used both for students and families in terms of at mycollegeviability.com. And that was a free report you can get access to for some of that information. There's also a paid version as well. And Matt, many, many, many, many times you and I talk about the comparisons, and that's really what's important, right? You just can't look alone at your own college's data and be successful in these days.

Yeah, yeah. If you look at your own— you're— the issue of looking at your own data is that if you've done it wrong forever, right, you're never going to see that unless you compare also not just over time to yourself but over time relative to a peer set.

And so as always, it's comparisons that matter. So for those looking at really, really a relatively inexpensive way to compare yourself to others on the private college market side, drop me a note. Uh, we'll set up a time to chat. I'll show you these tools. We can look at either the Advanced Compass that Matt used today or the Strategic Compass that is specifically for your college, and you can see what that can do for you. And we'll see where that takes us. So for Dr. Matt Hendricks, I'm Gary Stocker. Thanks for making time to watch the College Financial Health Show with Matt Hendricks and Gary Stocker. We'll be back next week with a review of the financial health and maybe viability of additional private colleges. Take care.