07. Elevate Your Game: Stephen A. Smith's Path to Achieving Ultimate Success

I got a responsibility to be better. I'm in takeover mode. The doctors had said to me, you over 50, this is how it's gonna be. Nah, my days of taking shortcuts is over. I'm in the best shape that I've been in in 25 years. I'm not ultimate human.

Hi, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, Gary Brecker, human biologist, where we go down the road of everything. Anti aging, longevity, biohacking, and everything in between.

Whoo.

Do we have a show for you today. A very good friend of mine that really doesn't need any introduction. He may be the most powerful voice in all of sports media. Best known as an executive producer on ESPN's First Take, an analyst on NBA Countdown, ESPN, and ABC's long standing NBA pregame show. Again, one of the most powerful voices in all the sports media. He is a New York Times best selling author. A book that I'm going to talk about in the podcast, which is a must read not for the sports fanatics alone, but for people that are just looking to learn more about how life's journeys shape you. He's also a podcaster.

He.

He's somebody that I would like to call a personal friend. He's deeply authentic, he's real, he's visceral, he's known for his commentary. And again, a very personal friend of mine. Welcome to the show. Stephen A. Smith.

What's up, my brother? You are looking chiseled, brother.

You came in and, dude, he came in in the cropped hoodie.

I was like, oh, we're about to.

Break it down now. Nine and a half months into our journey now.

Yeah, yeah, nine and a half months. I can't say enough about where I'm at right now. I mean, listen, I don't say this often. Ain't too many people in this world to thank, but, I mean, you are a friend and I love you for what you've done for me personally.

Thank you.

I never saw this coming, to be quite honest with you. I saw the interview that you did with Dana White, and we go back to just rewind the audience and just remind them what happened. You had given Dana White, the head of the UFC, about 10.4 years to live, if I remember correctly.

Right.

And I remember when I called Dana and I told him I wanted him to introduce me to you because I knew what bad shape Dana was in, because I've known Dana for a while, and he was never shy about confiding in me in terms of what he was going through. And so I wanted him to introduce me to you. And I literally just came to you because I had two missions. Number one, I want to get rid of these headaches. And number two, I wanted to lower my cholesterol.

Dude, I remember you the day you walked into my condo in Miami.

Yeah.

I was like, this is a guy on a mission.

Yeah.

Because you were very specific about your goals.

Yeah.

And you were very specific about laying out what you wanted to get out of working together.

Yeah.

And you were like, can you do this for me?

Yeah.

Let me know right now.

The interesting thing, and this is things that you didn't know for the first few months until you got to know me and we really got to cultivate our relationship again. I was having headaches every day, and I would have headaches every day when I woke up. Spanning practically my entire adult life, spanning over 30 years. You just learned to deal with it, and I just learned to deal with it. Weed it off, work it off. And as the day would progress, it would subside a little bit or whatever. But when you've got a lot of headaches and stuff like that, your temperament is compromised, your focus is compromised. You think about things along those lines. So I just wanted those things to heal. And then I knew that I had bad cholesterol. My numbers were at 280, 284. It had got to a point where it jumped to about 301. And I said it was just those things. And the first thing you said is, let's take your bloods. And I said, only under one condition. I do not want to know how long I have to live.

I know you.

I want to hear that you were.

The polar opposite of Daniel.

I want to hear that. Let the Lord take me. When he going to take me. Don't tell me. Don't tell me. You tell me. You know is exactly what he said. And you told me, you know, you said, you don't have. You're not. It's not. It's not dehydration. You're not. Not dehydration. It's that you don't have enough sodium. And I started taking the powder and with my water, and I went three months without a headache.

I remember when you called me and you were like, could it work that fast?

I said. I asked you, I said, that's fine. Then we were talking about cholesterol, right? You said, well, here's your problem. You said, your blood is swimming in sugar, and we gotta address that. And all of a sudden, I went on that mission and you know, the vitamins, it was the supplements. I was pre diabetic. They say when your A1C levels are at 64, you're diabetic. Full blown. I was at six' three.

Yes.

When I saw you. And when I started following your plan, next thing you know, I started losing some weight. I start feeling more energetic.

Yeah.

And my belly was going down.

Yeah, I remember.

And, and I have a picture that I look at and I'll show it to you. I have a picture that I look at every morning.

Maybe we throw up some pre and post. So.

That's right.

So people can see the journey. Because there's a lot of people listening to this without question that are identifying with what you're saying. They're like, look, my sugars are out of control. You know, I've got, I've got headaches every day and I've just learned to deal with them. And I often talk about how know people get to a certain age and they just chalk these things up to a consequence of aging.

Right.

You know what I mean? I'm supposed to have headaches, I'm supposed to feel lethargic or have poor short term recall. Not supposed to be sleeping that well.

That's what I was when I came to you, part of aging. Because the doctors had said to me, look man, you over 50, look man, this is how it's going to be. This is how it's supposed to be. And I would look at them and I'm like, nah, nah. And, and you get to a point where you resign yourself to the fact because you try so many different things, different supplements, different exercises, etc. ET but everything works in combination with one another. And so when I met with you and you talked to me about the regimen that I needed to get on, this is the amazing part. You can be the most brilliant doctor in the world if all you have to show for it are numbers. No one's going to buy in.

Right.

Because we're visual creatures and we want to see the results. Otherwise we're just not going to be. So it's nice to go to the doctor.

That's why you sit here in a sleeveless.

Well, I'm just saying. But it was like once I started seeing the results, all of a sudden it was a lifestyle change.

Right.

Because now I'm in a gym six days a week.

Yeah.

Now I'm lifting five days a week. I'm calling my trainer to work out. I'm available. Let's go. I'm getting on video, I'm doing Pilates, I'm running, I'm doing all of these things. But it all started with seeing you and you telling me what my blood showed you.

Right.

And what I needed to do. And, and when I, and when I started following that regimen and I saw the progress, it inspired me to do what I'm doing in every other fast.

Yeah.

And I sit here today, I'm not even finished yet. I've lost 30 pounds. My cholesterol numbers have dropped by about 100. I remember I was more than 100 now.

Your cholesterol is perfect.

My insulin levels, perfect. It went from like a 27 to 2. Yep, 27.

27 is, is insulin resistant for, for those people listening that don't, don't know what those numbers means, that means that you were insulin resistant. You were continuing to secrete more insulin, but not bringing the blood sugar down. The blood sugar was high. The three month average of the blood sugar was high, and the body was producing more and more insulin. And this was just further slowing you down, adding to the brain fog, adding to the inability for you to see results. When you work out, which at the time you said was very frustrating, you're like, you know, I'm putting in some effort, right? But at some point you go, why bother?

Yeah, you do. You get to that point, especially when you have folks in the medical profession that are telling you, listen, this is father time, this is age, et cetera, et cetera. And certain things can be that way. And you may not be what you used to be, but there's no excuse for being as bad as we may be sometimes. And so you've got to find that balance. And for me, again, if you go to a gym and you work out with a trainer, you want to see muscles, you want to see definition, you want to see progress. And far more often than not, when you go to doctors, what happens is, is that it's not that they're always wrong or anything, but they're telling you, these are what your numbers show. And if you show slight improvement, okay, take this medication and it will continue to show those numbers. Well, that's not living.

Right?

That's not living.

I remember what you said to me. What was the quote you, you said to me? I remember I was out on my.

I, I said, I said, there's a difference between. I said many things to you, but one of the things I said to you is there's a difference between being alive and living.

Yes, that was my favorite quote. I was out on the porch in, in Colorado. And you said, you know, there's just a difference between being alive and living.

That's right. And, and I really can say that over the last nine and a half months, the progress that I've made, I'm in the best shape that I've been in in 25 years.

That's amazing.

And I've went from 208 pounds. I'm at 177 now. Some people would say, oh, you skinny, you skinny, you skinny. But then my trainer said to me, actually, you're not right. He said, forget the scale, look in the mirror.

Yes.

And so all of a sudden I look in the mirror, Mom's got a little big, my chest got a little bigger, my shoulders got a little broader. It's my stomach that went down precipitately. I mean, I remember how happy you were, is I went from a size 36 pants to 32. A suit that was a size 56 is now a 50. You know, all of this other stuff, I've had people looking at me ready to faint because they're like, what the hell has happened? You know? And, yeah, you know, you never get tired of that.

But you know, a lot of times when people say they want to lose weight, what they really mean is, I want to lose fat. Right. And so one of the things that we tracked was we tracked your muscle mass to make sure that your muscle mass was going up while the weight was coming down.

Right.

And that's a great indication that you're not sarcopenic, you're not age. You know, you're not, you're not muscle wasting, you're actually fat wasting, which is why the body starts to shape itself so much. And, but to your credit, you know, you, you were from day one, very intellectually curious, if not the most intellectually curious patient I've ever had. And I've, I have infinite patience for that. Because you always want to know, why am I taking this? What is it going to do? What are my expectations? Are there any side effects? Am I going to be. Have to rely on this long term? And we kind of came to an agreement that we wouldn't do anything that would borrow from your future.

Right.

We wouldn't do anything that would create a dependency or something that you would have to rely on. And we wouldn't do anything where you would have to consistently increase this dosage over time. Like the endless choo choo train of being on a pharmaceutical. Right, right. And stayed within those guidelines. But then you put in the work Man. So I want to talk about some of the transitions you made in your life, like some of the dietary changes, routine changes, because, you know, highlighting your schedule. Right. I mean, there are very few people, myself included, that have the travel schedule that you do and also have the media schedule you do because you don't dictate that. Right, right.

But you got to be committed. I mean, listen, this is me. I want to be the best at whatever I choose to do. And in life you have to find different things to make yourself motivated. When Michael Jordan was playing basketball, he would conjure up these stories about his opponents to get inside his head. So he would be motivated to go out there and just.

Did he really?

And just take him out. You know, stuff like, you know, this guy said this to that this to me or that to me, and the guy never said it. But Michael Jordan would put that in his head to take him out. You know, you have Kobe Bryant, dear friend of mine, God rest his soul, you know, he was an assassin and he thought the same way. And the doubters and the haters and stuff like that. For me, people realizing that you don't, you don't always have to. It's not about being an athlete or whatever, whatever genre you're in, whatever you do that you're passionate about, chances are if you're successful at it. There's an abundance of people who want to take what you've got.

Unbelievable.

They want to believe that they're better than you, et cetera, et cetera. And what, what excites you, what motivates you? Well, here's what does it for me. What does it for me is that no matter how blessed and fortunate and how much God may have blessed me to achieve what I have achieved, I know for a fact, and in every single thing that I have done in my adult life, no one has seen me at better than 50%. I can promise you that. No one. I have wakened every morning tired, fatigued, having to pull myself out of bed. I've awakened every morning with headaches, having to overcome obstacles just before I get my day started. I have awakened every day foggy, not focused, stressed. Whatever it is, whatever's going on in your life, all of these things, the better you feel health wise, the more emboldened you feel to tackle whatever challenges come your way. In a matter of fact, what happens is you embrace the challenges and you look forward to it because it's a test as to what you can withstand, what you can overcome, what you can endure. And when you get to that point where you see yourself literally making progress on an everyday basis. Again, it's the equivalent of going out and working out in the gym. When you're working out with the trainer, you're seeing things. But the difference between you and most people that I've dealt with in my lifetime, they could come to me and say, okay, you're eating a little bit better, and as a result of that, your cholesterol numbers are down and your sugar levels seem manageable and things seem to be getting better. But I never felt it and I certainly never saw it.

Right?

And so for me, the difference now is that I see it and feel it in everything that I do. Not just as it pertains to my health, but as it pertains to my work, as it pertains to my personal life, how I deal with stressful situations and stuff like that. It's like, bring it on, I'm ready to go. And most exciting part about it all is that I haven't even gotten to where I intend to get. Right.

That's a big statement that the best people have seen you at is 50, because. And I think a lot of people out there right now are learning to cope with what they have rather than get rid of that anchor.

Right.

I always talk about the little tiny anchors off the stern of the boat, right? You can either, you can either pull them up or you can add power to the motor and just deal with it, you know, just kind of push through it.

Right.

And as these things start to leave your life, headaches, weight gain, water retention, brain fog, poor sleep, lack of focus and concentration, poor waking energy. As those things start to leave your life, it's like, man, the tide's racing all the rights. So if you felt a difference in not just your career, but things like your relationships, your energy level, your cognitive function, like, you feel that other areas of your life have been really touched by this in a positive way.

Yes. Oh, yes. I mean, it's like, first of all, positive feelings. I'm talking about physically. Physically health wise. Just as is the case with emotions and spirit, positive feelings are an addiction. And what happens is when you feel that way, your tolerance level for the negativity evaporates. And by that I mean it doesn't have to be literal negativity. If somebody's spirit is around you and they're defeatist, they have to defeat this attitude. I can't do this, I can't do it. Well, you're like, yeah, you can. Yes, you can.

Yeah.

Where's your discipline where's your sacrifice? I hate cold. No one hates cold more than me.

One of the funniest conversations that brought me to my knees.

Oh, my goodness. I mean, besides Stephen.

Steve Harvey.

That's right.

You brought me to my.

Oh, my God.

He's getting in that cold plunge.

Oh, my Lord. You got. Listen. I got that cold plunge. And listen.

Just go.

Oh, God. Gary, this was. This was a Sunday night a month ago. It was a Sunday night.

I remember it.

And I called you, and I said, I just installed this cold plunge. It took me eight and a half months to do it, but I said, I just installed this cold plunge. I'm going to do it. And I said, man. Man, I can't. I feel the cold just oozing out of the tub. I can't get in there, man. I can't get in there. And then I caught that damn Steve Harvey, who's supposed to be my boy, and he was doing it, and he was like, oh, he lit you up. He said, my brother, I got no help for you. You gonna suffer. He said, this is gonna be the hardest thing you ever did in your life. You gonna suffer.

Come on, Steve Harden.

And I'm like, you supposed to be helping me. He said, I got even worse news for you. It don't get no better the second time or the third time or the fifth time. This is what he told me before I plunged in your first time. Before I plunged in the first time, yes. Then you told me, I'm on the phone with you. I hang out with you, I go with him. I get with him. I get back to you before I get in.

Yeah.

And you said, three minutes minimum, Six minutes max.

Yes.

I said, okay, I got in that bad boy for five and a half minutes. I know. Yes, you were proud of me. And then I called Steve Harvey, and he said, that don't mean shit. I said, what are you talking about? Yeah. He said, you said you had your hands on the rims, and that means you had your hands and your forearm out of the tub. It don't count. Get all the way in. It don't count. Get all the way in. He said, I want you in up to your upper chest or your neck, arms included. And I said, you got to be kidding, man. And I had to get back in there the next night. But ever since then, every time I've been home, I've done it, man. I've done it. And again, medically, physically, what it does to you is something for you to articulate far better than me. But What I can tell you, it's done for me. It's elevated my risk level from the standpoint. Wait a minute. There's nothing I hate more than cold, and I did it.

Yeah.

What else can I do, right, that I thought I couldn't do?

Yeah.

What else can I do that I swore up and down I would never do?

And do you think there's something to the fact that. Because every time you walk to the edge of that coal, your body goes. And your brain goes, I do not want to get in here.

That's right.

And then you go. But there's more benefit than risk. And you force yourself to do it. Then when you get out, you feel that reward, that boost in emotion and mood.

Yeah.

Do you think there's something to that? That when you go through the rest of your day, it just makes those little bombs, those that are being thrown at you, the little negativity, the hater on Instagram, the comment on the podc.

The this, the haters on Instagram and Twitter and all that other stuff. X rather, and all of this other stuff, that's something for other people to lament. It phases me. Not at all. I could care less. That's never phased me. They can kick rocks. I've never cared. If somebody is right, they're right. If they're wrong, they're wrong. But I don't worry about negativity affecting me because I was raised professionally as a journalist, so, you know, cynicism and skepticism to some degree. Vitriol inevitably comes your way when you're a pursuer of truth. These are the kind of things that come with my profession. So it doesn't phase me. But what does phase me is knowing that I wasn't measuring up to snuff. I'll tell you this.

You weren't measuring up to your own snuff.

And what I mean. Here's what I mean by that. I cover professional sports, these some of the greatest athletes in the world. And I get to go on national TV every day and hold them accountable with my words and with my voice. Then I went home knowing that I was shortchanging myself. It wasn't that I didn't have to forget the skill. Of course they have the skill. They have skills you don't have. They have skills on levels we don't have. That's not the point. But that desire, that fire inside of your belly to maximize your potential, whatever it may be, were you doing that? And the fact of the matter is, I knew in my heart I wasn't with my own health, I would. I did it for the right reasons. I was on my grind. I was trying to be the best. I was working all the time, you know, stealing sleep when I could and not prioritizing sleep, not prioritizing rest, not prioritizing working out. But then you get to a point where you get older and older. And I had Covid. And after I had Covid, I had to have two. Not one, but two. Rotate a couple.

Real battle for you.

And I couldn't work. And all of a sudden I'm 208 pounds, skinny fat, with this pot nasty belly. Ain't nothing worse than skinny fat in my estimation. I mean, you're gonna be fat, be fat everywhere. I mean, to be skinny, but to have a pot belly, which, again, I'll show you the picture because I've never revealed these pictures.

You haven't.

I mean, for me, I was like, enough's enough, right? And so it's about my life. I got two daughters. I'm an uncle to 15 nieces and nephews. I got four older sisters. Both of my par will, God rest his soul. I'm the patriarch of the family. I'm on. I'm. I'm the big. You know, they say I'm the biggest dude in sports media. I got millions of people watching me on tv. I got billions of people watching me on digital. I got a responsibility to be better.

To yourself, to be better and to.

Be my best self. And. And what I've learned is, especially after hooking up with you and working out with my trainers and doing all of this other stuff, you know what I've learned, Gary? I'll never reach my best self because I'll never stop. Wow. My days of taking shortcuts Powerful. And not taking care of my health is over. I'm not going back. Whatever it takes, I don't care what sacrifices I have to make. I don't hear what I have to deprive myself of. There is no wealth without health.

Amen.

There's no wealth without health. And so for me, that's the number one priority. Yeah, I might steal a cheeseburger here and there, but now I eat a cheeseburger. The exception to the rule, in a month, what I used to do in two days, I might eat one or two cheeseburgers a month. Okay. I used to eat bread with everything that I do. Now I'm going to the restaurant while I'm at home, and I'm like, no bread. The sodas that I love drinking and stuff like that now it's water with lemon.

Yeah.

You know, and.

And those little shifts, they paid major dividends. Right? I mean, they. So, you know, I. I wish some people would realize that that 10 week journey to get there to where you're on this path, really on this path to where you're starting to see results, that hook is set, you're feeling better, you're sleeping better, you got more energy. That 10 week journey, as hellish as it might sound.

Right.

When you get to where you are now, it's easy for you to say, I'm not going back.

I've had a bunch of people that have worked, you know, with me, you know, over the years. I remember a dear friend of mine, J.J. smith, was the green smoothie king, and she wanted me to drink these green smoothies. It was pivotal because at that time, I was drinking sodas all the time, you know, and I never wanted to drink a healthy green drink. I remember my trainer, Obi Obadike, he used to come out and he'd get in the gym, get in the gym. I. Well, I'd get in the gym two days, and then he couldn't find me for two months. You know, stuff like that, you know, so. So where. So where. So where you personally come in is, I looked at you, you were in shape. I looked at what you did for Dana. I can't thank Dana enough. Yeah, I really can't.

I can't thank him enough. Big shout out to Dana White. I mean, he changed my career.

Listen, this guy is. I love him. And because he's always been straight with me, and we've always had a very real and authentic relationship. Yeah, he got with you, he got himself healthy. That's when I called them, when I saw the interview that he did with you. And he looked at me and he said, your turn. And I said, what are you talking about, my turn? He said, your turn? What the hell am I sitting here looking like this for and you're not? He said, you should be looking better than me. You should be in better shape. I said, look, man, I ain't got your money.

There's a lot of people think it's so much money.

With everything. I said, with everything you're doing. You got a six pack. I said, and by the way, you're your own boss. I got bosses to answer. I can't just work out when I want to and go to the gym and do all of this other stuff. He said, yes, you can. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. And he made a bet to Me. And the bet was he loses nothing. It was all about me. He said, you do this, I'll give you $20,000 to whatever cause you want me to give it to. He said, really? You don't do this. He said, not only do you not get nothing, you get ridiculed by me for not stepping up and doing what you're supposed to do.

Wow.

That is the bet. And I hesitated for a couple of months, and then I called you and I called him and I said, I am ready to accept your bet. And I've been all in ever since. And, you know, like I said, it's just. It's been a journey. It's still a journey. But to lose 33 pounds.

Oh, yeah.

To have my body fat go from 29.5 to what it is now. Right now, I'm at 14.6% body fat.

That is legit.

I'm not gonna rest until I'm between 10 and 12%. And when I get there, the mission is going to be to stay there.

Amen.

Period.

Yes.

Whatever it takes. And that's just where I'm at right now, because I know that the benefits is good health, great health, and that it's going to make me better at everything else I choose to do because I took care of my number one priority, which was my health.

Yeah. And you never get tired of people telling you how. How good you look since you've. Since you've changed.

Yeah.

I want to shift gears a little bit because you talked a little bit about how you were shaped in the. In. In the world, but a lot of that shaping came from your youth, and your books landed itself on the New York Times bestseller list, and I think it's landed itself there because it's a very real, very visceral memoir. I found that you were extraordinarily vulnerable in this book because I think, you know, the. ESPN Stephen A. Smith is very authentic, very opinionated, you know, doesn't back down from a challenge. But your. Your life wasn't always that way. You talk in the book about the disparity between your mother and your father.

You know, the.

The, you know, a father that you categorize as neglect and a deeply loving mother that, God rest her soul, was a big impact on your life. Talk a little bit about that journey.

Well, I think that, first of all, my book Straight Shooter, was a tribute and a dedication to my mother above all else. She's the greatest woman that I've ever known. She's the reason I know there is a God and There are angels.

I got goosebumps right now.

I don't know if you can see those, but I gotta. When you have a mother who. My mother passed away when I was 49 years old. I'm 50. I just turned 56. She passed away in June of 2017. My mother. I can count on one hand how many times my mother told me she loved me. In my lifetime, there was never a day that I did not know she loved me. And my mother was very, very big on action. Don't talk. Don't tell me who you are and what you're gonna do. Show me. She was very big on that. And so when I think about the sacrifices that she made, the two jobs, 16 hours a day, seven days a week, one week's vacation, you know, we on welfare for a short while, getting government cheese and bread and all of this other stuff. If we were poor, we're poor. That wasn't it. It's that my father would take his income and he'd give it to his other family, and he would deprive us. And my resentment for my father, it was never because of things like infidelity and stuff like that. He never put his hands on my mother, thank God, because we would have had to do something to him, because I would have never had that, tolerated that. But the personal issues that took place within their relationship was their business. My sisters, My four older sisters were incredibly resentful of my father for the womanizing.

And you got four older sisters and you're. You're the.

Yeah, I'm the baby. You're the baby. My brother died in a. In a car accident in 19. Okay. Two in Texas. You know, he. He passed away in a car accident. He was in a van and with a bunch of people because he was a traveling salesperson. And somebody cut in front of the driver. He was asleep. And my. The guy was driving, but my brother was asleep in the back seat. There were 15 people in the minivan.

Oh, my God.

And the guy swerved and it flipped over multiple times. My brother was the only one who died because he was asleep. So he was the only one who didn't have on a seatbelt.

Gotcha.

And so because of that, that's why I like to drive myself most times. Most times, you see me driving myself instead of being in a car service unless I have to, because I'm comfortable driving myself, because I trust myself more than I trust somebody behind the wheel. But as it pertains to my father and my mom, the issue for me and my Resentment emanated from the fact that I'm a man. You have my mother doing your job, provided you can sit up there and you can have your relationships, you could do what you want to do. And my sisters could resent you for that. Hell, I resent you for that. But what really stood out in my mind was the fact that how are you a man? And you have A woman working two jobs, working 16 hours a day, seven days a week to pay bills you're supposed to pay, be paying. And so for me, I had adopted a long time ago, long before I ever became a dad, that I had adopted this saying, if my children are hungry, it's because I'm starving. They will never, I will never eat unless they eat. I will never, I will never have, unless they have. I will always make sure that they're okay before I'm okay because they are my responsibility. So if it ever gets to a point where I'm squeezed, well, the first order of business is to make sure they're provided for. Then I take care of me. That's how I am when it comes to being a dad. Because it was something that my father never was. And so when I wrote the book, it wasn't to disrespect him, but it was to highlight how phenomenal my mom was.

Yeah.

And in order to do that, you had to point out and articulate why. And in the process of saying why, you're inevitably talking about what wasn't and what didn't exist as it pertained to my dad.

Have you ever thought about rewiring that and maybe looking at that and saying, well, maybe had that scenario not been the way it was in my life, I wouldn't have the conviction towards my own children. Because I think oftentimes what happens is, you know, we, our, our children should become better versions of us. Right. I mean, the greatest blessing in my entire life is that my, my kids, right, work for us full time and they travel with us. They're, they've caught the bug. They're a part of the enterprise.

Right.

I consciously worked to, to make that happen because I had a phenomenal father figure growing up. But my, my parents were gone. I mean, they, they, we lived on a, on a farm. They both worked in Washington D.C. they left at 5:30 in the morning, they came home at 7:00 at night. So they left before the sun up and came before the sundown. And I was an only child and I was alone a lot. Right. And I think that helped shape the way that I Am as a father, what I pour into my kids. Do you think that maybe there's some positivity that has. That came from that because it shaped the way that you are?

I have no doubt that there's some positivity that comes from it. But I'm sure you'll appreciate what I'm about to say, as will your lovely wife and family right off camera. When you. When you love your parents as much as I loved my mother, nothing matters more than their suffering. My mother suffered. So for me, if there was anything that I had to deprive myself of, even at this point in time in my life to make her life better, yeah, I would have done it. So I know there's a benefit, don't get me wrong. And I can look at it that way now that she's gone. But while she was here, there were so many years of joy she was deprived of because she had to do what he was supposed to do that it was hard for me to look at it that way. If you sit there and, you know, you see me now surrounded by my team, they'll tell you it's like one of the great. One of the most excruciating things. With all the success that's come my way. When I got my new contract from espn, the contract that I presently have.

We talk a lot about the struggles with espn.

That's right, too. I mean, and I've had my struggles with you to let me go. In 2009, I came. I was going for. I was unemployed for a year. You know, I thought I was being blackballed. I came back. And even when I came back to ESPN two years later, they restricted me to radio. Wouldn't even allow me on television. I was going from television From May of 2009 to April of 2012, I was not allowed on television. Nobody would hire me for television. And so I had to go through those things. And I'm here to tell you something right now, to get to a point where in 2018, I signed this mega deal. I cried. I cried.

Yeah.

Because even though it was lucrative, I was sad as hell because my mother had just passed away a year ago. I always wanted to buy a house in St. Thomas. I. I sent my mother on a cruise. At least. At least, you know, at least twice a year. 26 cruises she went on to me. Every one of them was built to me, you know, and all this other stuff. But I want to buy a house in St. Thomas.

Yeah.

I wanted to. I wanted to sit up there and I wanted to send her around the world. One of the greatest moments in my life was in 2005 when I signed a contract for $1.3 million to do, quite frankly, which was a television show on ESPN2 that was given to me by Mark Shapiro, who's now the president of William Morris Endeavor, but was the head. Was the boss of ESPN at the time. And I left his office after signing that contract, and I went to Queens, New York, and my mother was working in the PAL A Police Athletic League as a part timer because she has retired as a nurse. And she was working there doing bingo and all of this other stuff just so she could save up money to go on a cruise a year. And I went there to her and I went to the guys and said, my mother's done work and it's over. She'll never work again.

Oh, my God.

And I pulled out of it. It was the proudest moment of my life. That must have been in 2018. That was the kind of money that was like, you want a house in St. Thomas? What cruise you want to go on? What? You know, what do you want? You want to go to la? Wherever you go, Anybody that knows me knows my mother would not have had an expense. Everything would have been taken care of.

Yes.

And I couldn't. I. She wasn't around when that happened.

Yeah.

And it was like, damn it. You know? But then she was like, you could hear talking to me. This is what you. This is what you worked for. This is what you work for. You know what to do.

But you had that moment when you, you know, you pulled her out of that big.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No question.

And so how did you, you know, in. In your career with these struggles with espn? I mean, what was it that made you come back and not get bitter and turn your back and. And quit?

Mom. She reminded me of all the time she had heard me on the phone complaining or acting up or speaking in my bosses about my bosses in an unfavorable fashion, and bringing up race, bringing up unfairness, bringing up being pigeonholed, bringing up all of these different things. And she says, here's what I do know. She said, I'm not saying that you're totally wrong, but I know this. If you were a boss, you wouldn't want you working for you with that kind of attitude. She said, who wants that? Who wants that? She said, you suck it up and you find a way to persevere and work your way around it. Because guess what? You ain't the Only person in the world that's going through stuff. The world is filled with people who've got excuses about why they're being held back. And by the way, those things will be valid. But nobody is going to help come and help you just because you're crying about how you're being treated unfairly. You have to show that you have the intestinal resolve to overcome.

Right.

She said, you gotta find it within you. And so for me, mentally, I've always been mentally strong. I've always been mentally able to overcome adversity and adversarial situations. What happened when I met you? What happened when I committed myself to getting into better health? It wasn't as hard for me.

Yeah.

To overcome those doldrums. Right. Because all of a sudden, I'm looking at other things that's happening. I'm looking in the mirror and I no longer have this. And I think it's. I really, really think it's nuts. I'm trying to get my phone right so I can show this to you.

Throw that up. This is right here because I see it. Oh, my gosh.

That was me when I met you.

We gotta throw this off.

That was me.

Yeah. And we need the after, too.

That's right.

Yeah.

And so that was me right here. I can get up right now.

Let's do it.

I got a lot of stuff to improve. I'm not a finished product. I'm not a finished product, but this is me.

Oh, we got it. Oh, he's taking it off now. Come on now. Dude, you look great. Stephen A. Smith, this is me, ladies and gentlemen.

Dude, it's like I remember when you.

Walked into my apartment that day. You look so much different now, man.

I mean, my face was fatter, muscular. I was 33 pounds heavier, and I've always been slim. But now I'm a little cut up, and I'm going to get in even better shape. But it's pounds of muscles that I'm going to put on. I'm committed to keeping the fat off. I'm committed to better conditioning. And it wasn't just about being in bad shape. Covid almost killed me. I read about that, you know, and.

I didn't know you during that time, but it was. Everybody was talking about this. I mean, what got so bad?

Well, what happened is, is that I had gone and I had gotten an endoscopy.

Okay.

So an endoscopy for those that don't know, you know, they put this tube down your throat. They're very basically evaluating Analyzing the stomach, the esophagus, down to the stomach. Because I talk for a living. And so as a result, you develop acid reflux a lot. It's. And stuff like that. And I go and I get, you know, those biannual checkups or actually annual checkups. And so this particular day, I wasn't feeling well, but I was scheduled for the endoscopy. I went in there anyway, and I came out that night. I had a 102 degree temperature.

Wow.

It was at 102, 0.5. I was sweating bullets. You would have thought that I had jumped into a pool with my clothes on.

Really?

Okay. Doctors came over, they evaluated me. They instantly diagnosed me with COVID And so when I had Covid. Whatever medication they had had me on for the esophagus or whatever, for the acid reflux.

Right.

Whatever antibiotic they gave me or whatever, I don't know what happened, but it made things worse. And the next thing you know, I had double pneumonia.

Oh, my God.

And so when I had double pneumonia, I go to the hospital for a couple of days. They give me some fluid, they send me home. You just got to let it run its course. It wouldn't go away. My sister got covet from me. My sister Carmen.

Oh, my God.

She was. She had covet on a Friday. She was fine by Tuesday. Ah, really went from December 16th into the new year. It wouldn't go away. So it's New Year's Eve.

What were you doing about being on the air?

No, I was off. I took off. And the only day that I worked was Christmas Day. Christmas Day. I did it for my house, and I did it from my house. And everybody could see, whoa, he's not well. Because I refused because it was such a big day for NBA Countdown. I didn't want to miss it. And I said, I'm in my house by myself. What's the big deal? I'll do it.

Yeah.

But once I finished, I was so drained, really. And. And out. Man, I was. I was hallucinating so much, man. I thought one day I thought I was a rap artist, another rapping about Kyrie. I thought that before another minute, another minute, I thought I was a basketball player, you know, going up against LeBron. Another day I thought I was a singer, you know, I didn't know what the hell was going on.

Wow.

And I did all of this, and I did all fluid loss, and it was just fluid loss or what have you. And then New Year's Eve, I'm in the emergency room at the hospital in New Jersey. And one doctor said to me, you just got to let it run its course. Another doctor says to me, hold on. She comes in there. Dr. Booth, I'll never forget as long as I live. Dr. Booth, black woman in the hospital. She was fantastic. She looked at me and she said, this is not good. And she said, little white spot is an indication of pneumonia. On your X ray? On the lungs. My lungs. It was. It looked like it was cloudy. It was. Looked like it was, like, just clouded with. The whole X ray was white.

Wow.

She looked at me and she said, you're in some trouble. She said, we're going to try this antibiotic. We're going to try this. A steroid. You should know in two to three hours, whether. Three to four, actually. She said, whether this is gonna work or not. She says, if it doesn't work, do you have somebody we could call? We may need to call your family. She said that to you? It was that bad? And she said, but we'll. Let's. Let's think positive and let's.

Oh, let's think positive.

After that, sitting there like, I'm laying in there, and I'm like. I couldn't believe it because I'm like, I don't smoke. I'm a casual drinker.

How are you feeling? At the time, you didn't feel like you were on doorstep. You felt bad.

I was struggling to breathe. I had no strength. I had no strength. I was struggling to breathe. I was coughing a lot, the whole bit. And she gave me the antibiotic and the steroid. And the next thing you know, I started feeling better within the next couple of hours.

Wow.

About four hours later, the ball dropped to bring in the year 2022. And the ball dropped. I was in the hospital bed.

You were in the er.

I was in the er. Oh, my God. I was in the er. And so after I went through all of that, I just made up my mind. From that point forward, somehow, some way, I'm going to find a way to make sure that I prioritize my health in a way that I never have before. And I would search and look for things online and stuff like that. And then for some odd reason, I ran across Dana interviewing you. It was months later, but that's when I found out. Because even after. You gotta remember, after that, the reason why I showed you that photo is because after that, I still had two bad rotator cuffs. And then ultimately I had to get those operated on.

Oh, my God.

And so I couldn't work Out. I couldn't do anything. And I made up my mind the second I got through all of this. It's going to take months, but the second I got through all of this, come hella high water, I was going to find a path. And I found you.

Thank you, man. That is, yeah, I, I, that is an amazing story. I did not know how close to the doorstep you were.

It was bad.

So for the listeners, you know that, that have seen this meteoric rise, it's, you know what's fascinating to me is your career is probably on the best path it's ever been, but you keep growing. You, you've added in the last year alone New York Times best selling book, which I want to emphasize, because you've emphasized this before. You wrote that book yourself.

Yes, I did.

You didn't hire a ghostwriter and throw a couple of, you know, lines at them. You wrote that book yourself. So that, that's, that's Stephen A. Smith, real visceral. Just pouring your heart out into that. It's one of the reasons why I recommend it's a must read. You started your own podcast.

Yep.

Your ESPN career is not act is not by any stretch of the word stagnant.

So I mean, we're number one.

You're number one. You remind people of that. Yes.

You have to. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. Because it's not even about tooting your own horn. It's about understanding the business. The reality is, is that the business doesn't really want to advertise the fact that you're number one because it elevates your value. The more it elevates your value, the more independent you become. Because other people notice that you're number one and they don't, they want to keep you and what have you. And it's not bad. It's nothing malicious or anything on, on the part of ESPN or any other network for that matter. But the reality is, is that you're out here competing and I'm not one to blow or toot my own horn until somebody tries to knock it down. When you try to knock it down, then I got to remind you, you're not getting away with that.

In the most hilarious fashion, I might add. That's right. That's a most hilarious fashion. Like the two interceptions that you got a thousand dollars for. Three actually was three.

Actually. Three. It's actually three. Absolutely. And I made my favorite. I made Marcus Spears hand me the thousand dollars. On the air. Yeah, on the air during Monday Night Football. You did.

He gave it to you on the Air.

He gave it to me on the air.

I saw somebody recommending that you make them go to the bank and get you quarters.

I said, no, I don't want to carry around that much change, but, you know, you can. Do you give me the bills, though? Gave me some 50s, some hundreds, 20s.

It was exactly a thousand.

It was a thousand. He was a man of his word. Yeah, he was a man's word he was gonna have.

That was a big prediction, though, man. I think there were a lot of people going, wow, yeah.

But you know what, listen, you got to go for it. You got to go for it. And a lot of times people scared to be wrong or whatever, but you got to take a chance. Yeah, you got to take a chance with everything in life. If you're going for it, you got to go for it. And that's what I'm doing.

And everything in life, you are definitely going. And so my whole point is, new book, new podcast, ESPN career at the height of your career right now, where is Stephen A. Smith going? What, what is, what is the next five years look like for Stephen A. Smith?

I'm not going to lie. I, I mean, you've added the health. I'm in takeover mode. You know, some people say, some people will say, you know, you're already there, whatever, exactly, man. I'm just getting started. I, I'm in the best shape that I've been in in the last 25 years, but there is something inside of me that keeps telling me you haven't scratched the surface. You know, I want to gain 5 to 10 pounds of muscle and reduce my body fat by about another 3, 4% and watch how that impacts your career. I want to solidify myself as number one, but I also want to establish such a level of success that when you think about the all time greats, the Howard Cosells, the Bryant Gumbels, the Bob Costas of the world, and others, you can't help but think about me whether you like it or not, with my podcast. My podcast to me is not just a podcast, it's a show. I came out of my own pocket. I've built my own studio in Jersey City, New Jersey, that's going to be opening up in a matter of weeks. It's mine. I want to do late night one day, if at all possible.

Oh, my God, you'd be great on late night.

I want to show an ability to make people laugh and, and smile and not just be that gung ho. I want to bring light and a liveliness and a level of euphoria to people's lives. Not just with truth or my version of it. Not just with honest, open, and transparent conversation. But I want people to see me laughing. I want people. I want to make people laugh. I want to make people smile. I want to enjoy other people's success, and I want to help you and others contribute to. To helping us all be becoming even more committed to our health. It doesn't mean that we're gonna do. It doesn't mean that Stephen A. Is not going to eat a bowl of cereal from time to time. It doesn't mean that I'm not gonna eat a cheeseburger from time to time or anything like that. But again, what I. You. What I now do in two months, I used to do in a day. I used to eat four or five bowls of cereal a day. Breakfast, lunch, dinner. I now buy a box of Honeycombs or Fruit Loops or something like that. And literally, I have to throw it out because I didn't even open the box because I forgot it's there. Because I'm just not doing those things anymore because I love the way that I'm feeling, and I don't want to compromise. My definition of being bloated is now because I ate before the interview, right? My definition before being bloated was literally having my belly press protruding. And I'm walking around and I'm carrying weight around, and I just can't emphasize enough. Listen, this is not an infomercial. This is not anything like that. I'm telling people. I'm not joking. Look at me on the air and go back. I'm on TV every day. Look at me from months ago. Yeah, look at me now. Now people, they've gone from saying, you got to lose your belly. You got to lose some weight, my brother. To sitting there going like, you might need to gain some weight. You see what I'm saying? Because they don't see me with my shirt off. They don't see that, you know, I'm trying to build myself up, but you got to get rid of the fat. I don't want unhealthy. I don't want that unhealthy feeling in my life. I don't want unhealthy things in my life. I don't want unhealthy people in my life. I don't want any of that. And to me, you have to invest in yourself. And to me, I tell you this, too. Want to be motivated. Really, really want to be motivated and get yourself together as a human being. Go to the hospital. Just take a trip to the hospital. Oh, spend a couple hours in there, look around and see people who are sick and ask yourself, do you want to be that person? Do you want to be that person? That's, you know, some of these folks can't help it. I'm not blaming, I'm not casting any aspersions upon anybody. Some people just a stroke of luck. God has blessed you in different ways than giving you great, the greatest health and stuff like that. We know this. But for you to have a choice and to do absolutely nothing to get yourself together health wise is egregious. I'm mad now when I don't have time to work out. Yeah, I'm mad when I don't have time. I got this meeting and that meeting and this appearance. I'm like, damn it, I needed to get in the gym. I'm literally calling my trainer and apologizing to him for appointments I have to miss because your last one couldn't find you for two months. I'm like, yeah, it's the same guy. Thank God he came back to work with me. And then when you have somebody, you know, like one of the things you taught me, everything's in the bloods. It is blood work. It tells the story. And so all of a sudden I'll go to some next health facility or whatever to get a vitamin drip. Well, guess why I really, really go there. I really go there to use the machine that measures your body fat and measures your muscle. That's what I really go. If they don't have it, I don't even want, where's the machine? Because I'm looking for the nuggets data. The data gamified tells me it's like. And I told you this, I said, gary, it's not what you pointed out, it's that you pointed it out. And I'm able to target it. And because I've been able to target it and you've helped me target it, now all of this work that I'm doing, I'm seeing the fruits of my labor.

Yes.

Why would I want outside and inside, outside and inside? Because just the inside, especially in America, people can say what they want. They got to see it.

You can come with perfect numbers, show me state.

Yeah, I feel great, but if I don't see it, you know, it's not good enough. It's not good enough. But when you can see it, it's different. Every single morning. Every single morning, I get up, I pray, I thank the good Lord for Giving me another day. I ask him to give me a good day. And the next thing I do is grab my phone and I look at that photo, How I looked that I just showed you when I had Covid and what I regressed to. Wow. And. And then the next thing I do is get up and I look in the mirror and I turn sideways. How's my stomach looking? And if now, if it's even, you know how you. I don't care who you are, after you eat, you're gonna bloat a little bit for a second. Even then I'm pissed off. I'm pissed off, like, why is it showing? I'm like, I'm. I'm fixated on it. I'm not. I'm not gonna rest so I can sit here. I am not a finished product by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm telling people I don't want to be finished. Everything. I'm gonna try to up the ante. I get to 10, I get to 1012 body fat, but I'm chiseled. I'm still gonna call Gary. Yo, Gary, I want to do this.

Gary.

I want to do this. He does. I'm gonna go to my doctor.

Focus on cognitive function.

Now I suppose to my man Gary. This what I want to do. Is there a problem? You know that my train is what I'm after. You know, it's like it doesn't stop because I'm reaping the benefits. And it's making me better because all of a sudden when I get stressed, I might be married, I might be mad in the moment, but it doesn't stay with me as long because I got other stuff to do. Cuz I'm feeling too good to be stagnant. I'm like, what's next? What's next? What's next? You see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And that's how I feel.

Well, this has been absolutely amazing. This has been amazing. I mean, this journey that we've been on together. I mean, I'm. And I deeply appreciate our friendship.

I really do value it. And the friendship is real because you didn't listen. I'm a client. You did not have to do what you've done for me. You didn't have to answer the phone every time I called. I ain't had to call you that damn many times. But I couldn't help you understand because I kept becoming more and more faster.

He is calling you a lot. What's going on here?

I'm calling a lot, but I Wasn't even. I was calling a lot because you're teaching me. Like, there's times that our conversations have ventured beyond me, and we're just talking about, this is what this does. This is what that does. And I'm going to other people, and I'm literally saying them. You know, it's gonna activate the brown sugars in your blood. You know, it's gonna get a choke. You understand? And when you do that, it's gonna eat up, it's gonna speed up. It's gonna speed up your metabolism. You got to get in there, you got to suck it up, come back, come out, see how you feel. Okay, well, what happened?

You're talking about cold chocolate proteins.

That's right. You didn't drink enough water. You didn't drink enough water. All right. Did you have enough sodium in your water? What did you do? I saw you drinking the Minister, and they're looking at me like, what the hell is going on? On. Well, what's going on is I'm doing for them what Dana White did for me, what you did for me, what Steve Harvey is now doing for me. Because he's been on that mission for so long. And the only reason I brought up his name is cuz he wanted me to bring up his name. He wanted me to let everybody know. Look, man, he's not playing games. And now he and I are going back and forth, inspiring each other. Cause he got me beat, and he's telling me he got me beat, but I got him beat on the body fat. But he's got. He's about 10 years older than me, so it's like. Like, it's okay. Yeah, but. But. But I'm. I'm 56. I just turned 56 last Saturday, and I'm at 14.6%.

That is incredible. Half of where you started.

Half of where I started.

That is incredible.

And it doesn't stop from here. And so it's gratitude to you, it's gratitude to Dana, it's gratitude to my colleagues, because these are former professional athletes. I'm sitting next to Shannon Sharp, right? I'm sitting next to Ryan Clark, who owns a fitness center. I'm sitting next to. These guys got so much love for me that they were like, you got to stop eating this, Stephen. You got to stop doing this. You got to stop doing that. And they've gone from that to saying, man, you look good. What you been doing? Tell what the hell's going on? How'd you get to this point? And so, you know, I tell Them multivitamins and supplements, but exercise and monitoring my blood sugars, diet paleo to keto. These are things that you advise me to do. You didn't just come to me and say, Hey, 10x. You said, Stephen, this is what you need to do. Here's how you need to do it, here's why. And you explained it. And so you did. What I clamor for executives to do in my business, I say, listen, when you talking to talent, maybe, just maybe, you wouldn't have many problems with some talent if you educated them as to why you're making the requests you make.

Right?

Here's our business. This is what we're doing. This is what we need done. Here's why we need it done. This is why we need it from you. If you told us, maybe we'd listen more, right? But they don't. A lot of times they don't take that time. And often, in most cases, you did.

Thank you.

And it's changed my life for the better. And I'm really appreciative.

I'm deeply appreciative, too. I wind down every podcast by asking the guest the same question. There's no right or wrong answer to this question. But what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

To be an ultimate human? I think being supremely healthy in terms of what you can control, being as supremely healthy as you could possibly be, being somebody who oozes that. See, if you're one of those healthy individuals and you're vibrant inside and there's no one who reaps the benefits of it, then you're being selfish. You're keeping it from yourself. You're not spreading the wealth. Tell me. No matter what scripture you read, no matter what your beliefs are or whatever the case may be, tell me anything. Any walk of life that encourages you to be self, to be selfish, to be selfish in a fashion where you're the sole beneficiary of whatever greatness resides inside of you. If you ooze it, if you have that vibe, that aura about you and you walk it, not just talk it, and you're. You're. You're able to have a contagious effect that emanates and extends to such a degree that it affects the lives around you. That's what it's all about. Because the more that you're that way, the more people will gravitate to you and they'll look for the ingredients of success. There's a whole bunch of people that want to be Gary Brer These days, there's a whole bunch of people that want to be Steve Harvey and Dana White and Stephen A. Smith and others. Well, why? Because we're considered individuals who are successful at what we do. Well, how do we get here?

Right.

They're asking all the time. And we have an obligation, at least in some capacity, to share that and to do it in ways that you and others have done it. Okay, sure you have a business and sure you're going to thrive, but the most important thing you've done is you didn't give it all to me. You gave me a piece. You said you out on your own.

Yes.

And it was after you saw how committed I was.

Yes.

You gave a little more.

Yes.

And a little more, you know, and you said, no, I'm not gonna give it. I gotta see it. Because. Why did that resonate with me? Well, one of my mentors is Bob Iger, the CEO of Walt Disney. You can't walk up to him and take his time. Can't do it. It will not happen. He might throw a little nugget out there for you, but he's watching. Are you gonna capitalize on this or you? Don't waste my damn time. My boss is Dave Roberts, executive vp, espn. Same exact way. Jimmy Pitar, the president of espn. Steve Harvey, Dana White, Mark Shapiro, Ari Emanuel, people like that, that I've known for many years and stuff like that. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, people like that. Byron Allen with his greatness and stuff like that. The list goes on and on. Successful people have very low tolerance level for laziness. And people who are looking to cut corners. And if you're looking to cut corners, the beauty of your position is that you are in the business of health.

Yes.

If somebody's willing to cut corners with their own health, what are they going to do to help you be healthy?

Right.

Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, physically. What are they going to do? They're going to cut corners. No time for that. No more. Zero.

I would love that.

Zero. I'm on the grind. That is, to me, the ultimate human. Somebody who is committed to being on the grind for the betterment of themselves and the lives they can potentially impact.

That was amazing, man. Appreciate you so much, man. Thank you for coming on the show today.

Thank you, my man.

I really appreciate, as always, guys, that's just science.