57. Unlocking Glutathione Your Body’s Super Antioxidant with Dr. Patel

So if you can age, let's see, every six months, you only age one month. Wouldn't that be better?

That'd be great. You got everybody's attention right now. What was astounding to me when I started my wellness practice was the paucity of knowledge and understanding about this miracle antioxidant. I understand it to be the most prevalent antioxidant in the human body. Every single cell in our bodies contains glutathione. It's manufactured by our liver. But I feel like it's the mother of all antioxidants that most people have never heard of.

The reason we don't talk about glutathione, even though we have known for glutathione for over 100 plus years, we have never figured out how to.

Hey, guys, welcome back to the ultimate human podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Breca, where we go down the road, everything anti aging, longevity, biohacking, and everything in between. And today's guest, as you just heard, is a powerhouse. I actually met him at an A4M conference. This is the big Age Medicine conference. That's, that's hosted once or twice a year all over the world. And I was actually absolutely enthralled by some of the products that he was developing as a pharma, as a pharmacist. Not only his background as a professor, but also his, his thorough understanding of transdermal delivery in certain. Not just pharmaceuticals, but certain things like glutathione and other things that we're trying to get into our bodies, that we're trying to avoid first pass metabolism, which is our digestive system, because our digestive system is a very inhospitable place. And it's, it's a very difficult route for delivery into the body. And let's just face it, a lot of people don't like to do IVs and they don't like needle sticks. And so they're looking for other mechanisms to deliver, not just pharmaceuticals, but hormones and antioxidants, vitamins, minerals and nutrients of all kind. So this is going to be an amazing podcast today, and I really want to welcome Dr. Patel to the podcast. It's great to have you on.

It's my pleasure to be here today, Gary.

And, and truth be told, right before we started, Dr. Patel told me that his wife is a fan of mine and she follows all my videos. Right, and what forwards them to your.

Friends, to my kids and my friend.

Her friends, everybody see your kids, your friends. So great. We already know that your wife's a good person. So we don't, we don't need to cover that. But you know, I, I, I, I, I want to just get right into it because I'm, I'm fascinated by your research into glutathione. And I'll tell you what my understanding is of glutathione. It's probably, certainly not as in depth as yours. And I, I think most of my audience has heard of it. But what was astounding to me when I started my wellness practice was the, the paucity of knowledge and understanding about this miracle antioxidant. I understand it to be the most prevalent antioxidant in the human body. Every single cell in our bodies contains glutathione. It's manufactured by our liver. But in times of stress or when the liver is under stress especially, you see glutathione levels drop and therefore you have this whole myriad of consequences. But I feel like it's the mother of all antioxidants that most people have never heard of. Like if, if I think if you took up, let's say, a slice out of middle class America and you said, you said, what's the number one antioxidant in the human body? They would say things like vitamin C. That's right. Or, you know, blueberries have antioxidants. And so I, I would love for you to take us down the road of, you know, what glutathione is, what's its role in the human body, why is it so important? And then we're, I want to transition into the different delivery mechanisms and how people can benefit by adding glutathione to their regimen.

Absolutely. And you said, right, people don't understand antioxidants because they used to, or drink orange juice per day. There's all the antioxidants in there.

Right.

And so, or eat blueberries or blueberries, whatever. Right. So they are, they're trying to get the antioxidants from the food source, which is, which is the right thing to do because we want them to eat the right types of fruits and vegetables every single day. But the reason we don't talk about glutathione, even though we have known for glutathione for over 100 plus years, is we have never figured out how to get inside your body. So even though we inject it, take a pill or inhale, like I have a lot of athletes, they'll inhale a glutathione or they may do a suppository or Whatever, whatever they say.

So they vaporize it. They vaporize it, they nebulize it.

And so they think that they're getting into the system, but it's not there. So we'll talk about the doula system next, but let's talk about what is it? Right, so the glutathione. And you just said right now most of the people have not heard about it because of the fact that people do not understand what it is and how to deliver that part. But you talk about middle America, but even people that have very affluent. We were recently at one of the award shows and literally 90% of the people, these are high powered CEOs have never heard of glutathione before. And I was shocked to see this. And wait a second, you have all the resources in the world, yet you have no idea what glutathione is. So we're going to talk about glutathione. First thing. It's the simplest peptide the body produce. I say peptides. This is a three amino acids.

It's three amino acids.

So it's a tripeptide. It's not a protein. It could be a protein, but not really. It's a tripeptide, very simple form. And when you combine those three amino acids together, it has more than one properties. And that's what we want to find out. What are the properties? Because if something just does one thing, it's good. It's a mother of all antioxidants. That's just one of the function. Right? Because as a glutathione, what it does, it quenches all the free radicals. Because our body is exposed to free radicals all the time. That's one. On top of that, our body produces free radicals because of chemical reaction happens every single day in our life.

Yeah, chemical waste.

Yeah, chemical waste. So the free radicals are inevitable. It's always going to be in our body. And that's how you always going to be aging. Only thing that you can control is the pace. It's not if it's the pace, Right? So if you can age, let's see, every six months, you only age one month, right? Wouldn't that be better?

That'd be great. You got everybody's attention right now, right? Including mine.

So that's what we want. That's exactly what we want. And so the pace of aging has to be done. And the free radicals are always going to produce. So that's one of the functions, that's what it's known for. The second part, that nobody talks about this thing is glutathione actually helps with phase one, phase two detoxification pathways for making sure activates the liver and, and basically helps get rid of all the chemicals we exposed to.

You know, I, I don't want to cut you off, but, but before we get further, I want to talk about phase one and phase two detoxification because I'm, I'm a huge fan of methylation and decided to dedicate the balance of my adult lifetime to the study of methylation. And these methylation pathways dump into two main pathways. One is transulfuration and the other one is glutathione synthesis. And we absolutely see impaired methylation leading to poor glutathione synthesis having demonstrative consequences in the onset of the severity of, and eventually how quickly people succumb to disease and pathology. I assume that it must have something to do with the inflammatory process or what have you. So can you talk a little bit about phase, phase one and phase two detoxification when you use those terms? What are you referring to for the audience?

I'm looking for the, those liver enzymes. I'm making sure the CYP enzymes, which one hasn't been, is not clearing up effectively.

Okay.

Because if you are exposing yourself to, let's see, hormones, and if you have CYP1B1 enzyme gene mutation, then it doesn't matter. All the hormones you're taking is actually working against you because your body cannot clear them out, right? So that's what I'm talking about. So there's a lot of medications that you take, a lot of foods you eat that your liver has to clean out. And if you have one of those gene snips that your body cannot metabolize it or conjugate it, you have an issue with buildup of all this medication in your body that is actually working against you the second. But you talk about the com. The methylation transferase as well as the gluten transferase transfers is a, is a protective system that is activated because the need for glutathione has increased so much. So the body activates those systems to produce glutathione. Now it needs three things, right? Three amino acids, two enzymes, and a catalyst like selenium to produce one molecule of glutathione. And with that, there's two things that requires ATP and nad.

Okay?

I mean, it's a multifactorial problem. And I don't know how much stuff we can replace. Can we replace ATP? Maybe not. Can we replace nad, Maybe can we replace the amino acids, maybe. Can we replace the two enzymes? You know, that's sketchy. Can we replace selenium? It's a heavy metal. How much do we replace? So it's a very delicate balance. A very delicate balance. And sometimes us humans wants to take over our body's natural process. You know what, don't worry. I'm just going to give it to you glutathione as is, so don't worry about it.

Right, Right.

We got you covered. So don't work too hard. We got you covered. And so we want to make sure that if the body doesn't have the capacity to respond to body's needs are then we have to find an alternate source to deliver this glutathione into the system.

Now what about people that. Because I've, I've read tangentially, I don't know that I've actually read a clinical study about this, but that if you take too much glutathione, you'll reduce your endogenous production, the liver's production of glutathione, or that you should cycle on and off of glutathione supplements. This was in an article that was about intravenous glutathione, high dose intravenous glutathione. And that by administering it too often, too frequently or in too high of a dosage that you would actually reduce your endogenous production.

So I think that again, there's no studies have been done like that. So we do not know if that's for sure or not. But I truly believe that if you give exogenous glutathione, especially the way the body can absorb it correctly, that it will shut down your own production. But keep in mind, glutathione is not a hormone. It's not produced by pituitary or hypothalamus. Right. So when you're talking about negative feedbacks and said, hey, I don't want my body to get lazy and not produce what I need to do, we're talking about hormones, we're talking about something that the pituitary and the hypothalamus will do it for us. When it comes to the glutathione, it's not supposed to be an issue because the issue with glutathione is what we need ATP and NAD to produce glutathione. ATP and nad. If we do not produce glutathione, guess what they're gonna do? There's so many different peptides they can produce all day long.

Right.

So energy is never wasted to do something else. And even though you supplement glutathione, and we'll go into supplementation later on, but you're gonna find out that none of the supplements actually absorb in your body at all, ever.

Wow. So if you're just taking a glutathione tablet or capsule or sublingual, you're getting virtually. Or none of that glutathione.

So none. As a glutathione, the gluten levels will rise in your body, but not because your body absorbed it. The body breaks down the glutathione, takes up the amino acids, sometime like two amino acids one, sometimes a single amino acid, but then they will combine back together.

You know, it's interesting. I talk about this with proteins all the time. I mean, most people think that amino acids are proteins. They're actually not. They're the building blocks, proteins. And that if you don't have amino acids in the right ratios, when it runs out of a certain amino acid, it quits the production of an. It sort of shuts down the entire assembly line. Right. And so balanced amino acid profiles are so important because then you give the liver exactly what it needs to assemble whatever protein it's going to assemble, or, you know, go to the muscle and help repair muscle. It sounds like a very similar action is at play with glutathione, because you're saying if you just take the three amino acids as glutathione and you swallow it, or you take it in a liposomal version or a sublingual version or what have you, your body's actually not receiving that glutathione. Your glutathione production may rise, but that's because that glutathione is being metabolized in the liver, assembled back into those three amino acids, and returned to the bloodstream as glutathione.

That's exactly right, yeah. That's why, if you look at the fda, it's only approved one product ever in the history, which is nac. They have not approved anything else. So even in the ER right now, if you go with tunnel overdose and you're about to die, the drug of choices, NAC and acetylcysteine. Yeah. And it's a cysteine to revive you back. And all it's doing is producing enough amount of glutathione in there.

Oh, is that what NAC is doing?

Yeah.

I wonder, because I take NAC sometimes if, if, if I've got, like, excess mucus or Phlegm or things. I feel like it kind of drives me out a little bit. In a good way. Yeah. And, but I didn't know that the mechanism of action for an acetylcysteine was to raise glutathione. So it's an indirect way. It's an indirect way of helping you raise glutathione. So then what's, what's special about the, the transdermal route and what's special about combining glutathione with other molecules in order to actually have that glutathione show up directly in the bloodstream?

Yeah, that was a loaded question. It's a lot.

I ask really good questions. You're going to find that out. My last guest said the same thing.

So when I say the glutathione, it's if the. You're right. When, when I first hired, when I first hired, I was hired to work on vitamin C because they thought the vitamin C was the best.

Everybody does, right?

And I saw, I said, okay, that's not going to work for me. I said, I'll work for you on vitamin C, but personally I'm going to work on glutathione. So I use up all my resources I have on working master antioxidant glutathione. Because it was too difficult, nobody wanted to touch it. Our goal was to. My goal as a pharmacist was just can I stabilize the glutathione in a water based system outside the human body? That was the only goal I had really. I did not go any further than that and took me about few years and we figured out a way to literally stabilize the glutathione at room temperature in a water based system that sit on my shelf. That smells like sulfur.

Yeah, it does smell like I just sprayed it on my arm. It doesn't smell that good, but. But it goes away. Yeah, it goes right away.

And so that was my goal to first put a chemical cap on the thiol group because that thiol group gets, gets oxidized very, very fast. So I had to put a chemical cap on it because if I put any of the caps on it, it just destroys the whole molecule. And that's why all this, all this eons of research on glutathione, nobody could figure out what the chemical cap on it. So that was my first patent on that one to get the chemical cap on.

Essentially what this chemical cap is doing is keeping the glutathione from denaturing before it even gets into the body right in the suspension, in the solution. Right in the solution.

It stays there all the time like that. And so now I said, well, somebody else will do the research to get inside your body. Guess what?

Nobody did the research.

Nobody was going to do the research. So I said, okay. So I talked my PhD on staff with me. I said, Dr. Tran, we're going to work together and try to figure this thing out, how to get inside your body. Never in a million years. I thought this was going to be a topical route, because as a pharmacist brain, we've been programmed that to get inside your body, it has to be inside the body either through injections, through oral, nasal spray, suppository, something sublingual, something nebulizer. Right? Yeah. The goal is you have to physically see. You have to physically see it going inside your body. That's the perception that we have about medicine. It has to go inside the body. And once it goes into the body, our job's done. Now the body, you take care of the rest and take it to where it needs to. The body spits it out, because body goes, no, thank you. I know what my body is doing. I know what I need to do. I don't need your help. And spits it out. And so with us, what we did was we took the same technology that we put the chemical cap on it, and we somehow figured out how to trap this glutathione molecule and rotate this in a way that can reduce the size of the molecule. And so when we did that part.

Like protein folding, almost.

Protein enveloping. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Protein folding. So we did that part, and when we did the part, it started getting through your skin very easily.

And now how were you measuring this? Were you doing serum concentration studies?

So we're doing red blood cells levels.

Oh, so you're actually going one step further, not just entering the blood, but actually inside the rbc.

Yeah, because the. If you. If you measure the whole blood, the plasma glutathione level has a very, very short life because plasma, it doesn't. Doesn't go anywhere.

Right.

The kidney filters it out and dumps everything, all the glutathione in the urine in about 15, 14, 15 minutes is gone. As early as 5 minutes, as much as 15 minutes is already out of the system. And so it was not helpful for me to understand to have glutathione in the plasma at all. So I needed in the blood cells, in the blood cells. That's the only way I can measure intracellular levels. Because I don't want to do tissue biopsies, right? So what we figured out that the base that we use is actually binding to the ACE2 receptors on your cells. Every cells have lipid rafts, the lipid rafts have ACE2 receptors. That receptor is the gateway to communicate with the cells. So we use the receptors, right? If you take a blood pressure pills, they have an ACE inhibitor to block the receptors so the blood pressure doesn't go up. So we use the same receptor to deliver nutrients to your cells.

So this ACE receptor actually pulls it through the phospholipid bilayer into the cell. And now you have an intracellular concentration.

And so now when the gluta gets inside the body for the very first time, I mean, that's where the miracle happens, right? Because when people ask you, so what does it do? What does it do for me? I said, well, I don't know. I really do not know. Because we have no idea what your body has adjusted to based on the lack of nutrients you have now, right? And so everybody has different effects.

You know, I, I can tell you emphatically it's not, not placebo that what I, I use your topical glutathione. I'll spray it four times or so on the inside of my, my forearm and rub it in. I do notice a, a noticeable increase in just energy and clarity almost immediately thereafter. So I just, just within a few minutes. And I thought it was placebo at first. I, I don't think it's placebo now because I, I could vary the time of day that I do it and I can actually, I'm pretty in tune with my body so I can actually tell that something good has happened in my body. And I don't really know how to describe it other than sort of this elevated lift of just mental clarity, kind of alertness and just feeling clean and, and aware. Like more maybe it's more cognizant when I'm, when I'm.

Do you have the gene mutation, the MTHFR or C?

I do. Oh yeah, I do have mthfr, so that's the issue.

So most of my, most of my clients, they have this gene mutation when they apply the glutathione. They feel the effects of head clearing up within 15 minutes.

Yeah, that's about, that's exactly what I experienced.

But the energy that you're feeling.

Because I'm homozygous, I'm homozygous for MTHFR A1298C. I have a copy of the A1298C and also a copy of the C677T. So I. Both. Both, yeah. So I noticed the glutathione. That's probably, now that I think about, it's probably a lot of the reason why. Because the transulfuration glutathione pathways are inhibited.

That's right.

I also notice when I take adequate amounts of methylfolate that I feel better and I can, I notice the days when I don't take methylfolate. Now I don't notice when I do actually take my supplements. It doesn't a difference. The difference is when I don't, you know, sometimes I'll leave town, I'll forget my vitamin tray and I'll notice the difference. My wife is very good about reminding me about my vitamins because she says I, I don't think I have a temper, but she says I do. And, and she's like, did you take your vitamins today? So she, she always actually carries an extra pack with her.

The energy that you noticed is ATP. ATP sparing molecules. So, so I'm assuming you're in very good health internally, externally you look amazing, but internally, stop it. We are in very good health. And so when you're in very good health. So most of my athletes, they have the same exact notice. Right. They notice the increase in energy. But it's not a caffeine energy.

Yes, no, no, it's definitely not caffeine energy.

It's the intrinsic energy of ATP getting spared. And when you have spare ATP now your body's looking for other things to do. Imagine a house person in your house, that is, that is a workaholic, has nothing to do in your house is that person is looking to, to fix something.

Right.

All the time.

Right.

So ATP is now spared, now it has a lot of energy. Now is looking for things to do in your body.

So, so talk a little bit about. So you, you, you developed this about protein folding in this and this chemical cap. So now you have this delivery system for transdermal.

Transdermal.

And now once glutathione goes transdermal into the body, do you recommend that people take glutathione every day?

Every day.

You see?

Yes.

And, and when, when it goes transdermal enters the bloodstream eventually makes its way into the cell. Talk a little bit about what it's doing. Because you know, I, I think I have the same theory as a lot of anti aging longevity, you know, biohacking researchers theory about aging and that eventually it's a mitochondrial disease. Right. Is progressive decline in mitochondrial function. And I don't know that there is much in the world of pathology or disease or dysfunction that you can't trace back to the mitochondria. I mean, virtually everything starts and ends with the mitochondria. So if the glutathione is going intracellular, once it's in the cytoplasm of the cell, what, what kind of activities is is glutathione providing? Is it helping with cellular waste elimination, repair, regeneration, detoxification?

The two things that I know of offers most is the, is the neutralizing all the free radicals RSPs and the conjugating and removing all the toxic overload repair. I am not 100% sure yet.

Okay, yeah.

So this is the first time we have actually gone into the body, right?

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So research need to start, we need to start now is to try to figure out what else can we do with it.

But we know now that it's going to help the cell eliminate waste and detoxify.

That's right.

Obviously that's clearly a good thing. I mean, I've often hypothesize that if we don't get rid of the exhaust, it essentially backs up and blows the engine. Right. And I think it's a very overlooked part of modern medicine, even functional medicine, is that cellular metabolism is a dirty process. I mean, from a cellular perspective. Right. It's a very dirty process. Creates a lot of waste and you need to, you need to take the trash out. And glutathione helps take the trash out.

It's the most effective way to take the trash out.

Yeah. So now in, in your opinion. So people that are doing high dose glutathione IVs or liposomal glutathione, or these orals. I've never believed in oral glutathione, but. And I've ever actually seen the research on, on liposomal glutathione. But in your opinion these are less effective, if effective at all?

No, they are effective, but they are. It's just that it will be effective in, in people. They have the ability to deconstruct the molecule, absorb the molecule and reconstruct again on demand. But if you have a gene mutation and you take a product that can deconstruct, but they cannot reconstruct again, now all of a sudden you have all this waste. So now you're creating more waste in your body than actually helping you. And the question you asked earlier about can we take too much of glutathione, until now that wasn't the case. You can literally. I have doctors that have injected 10 grams of IV push of glutathione for Parkinson's patients.

Right, right.

10 grams is. It's a barbaric dose for topical version that we have. If you have to give everything goes intracellularly. I mean, your body would not be able to tolerate that.

Right.

That is like crazy amount. But yet they have been giving this high dose. Why? Because the body breaks it down, cysteine gets reabsorbed, and cysteine has been used to produce glutathione again. So all of a sudden it doesn't really matter how, what dose you give them. It's all you're doing is just increasing amino acids in your body and allowing the body to reproduce the medications for yourself. Like you take methylfolate, why can't you take folic acid? Because folic acid has to convert to methylfolate to get absorbed in your body.

That's right.

And folinic acid is what your body can use up, but body cannot use folic acid.

Right.

But guess what? The pharmaceutical company has been giving us folic acid for 100 plus years.

Right?

Right. It's useless drug.

Right.

It's a useless drug.

It's useless. And, and quite frankly, it's, you know, in my industry, when I was in the mortality space, we would see people that had chronic anemias and, you know, and the, the frontline supplementation for anemia, as you know, is iron B12 and folic acid. And they would give them iron B12, folic acid and iron and B12 and folic acid and iron B12 and folic acid. And, and the iron levels would skyrocket, but the anemia would never go away. And when they would switch to methylfolate, simple switch to the methylated form of that nutrient, boom, the anemia would go away right away. And I think that, you know, this, this touches on the point that first of all, you know, methylation is very important in the human body. And, and that secondly, you know, we sometimes assume, in my opinion, that, and I think it's a very dangerous assumption that all human beings are, are, are treating vitamins, minerals, amino acids, nutrients the same way, and we're not, you know, what goes into your body may be methylated very differently than what goes into my body, which is probably why I feel energy from the glutathione. You might not, if you have the. Don't have the MTHFR gene mutation, and it's estimated at what, 44%, some even as high as 60% of the population has that gene mu. So they could really benefit from glutathione. That's what you're saying.

Wow.

Now, now can you, can you put this.

What are.

Aside from cellular waste and detoxification, what are some of the other benefits of glutathione? I know that it's used cosmetically to lighten the skin.

Well, the cause. Keep in mind, your skin is the largest organ, is exposed to the environmental toxins the most. So as the skin is an organ, it's pretty toxic, Right. And we try to eliminate. You do sauna and you do all this, all those therapies to remove all the phthalates out of your skin all the time, right? You burn off all the excess gas. So skin needs. Needs nourishment. The issue is if you take glutathione internally or whatever forms, it goes into your blood first and goes to the rest of the body and then eventually come back to the skin again. Right. So the fact that we apply gluten on the skin directly is so much beneficial because it helps with your skin immediately. And so again, that was a side project. I said, hey, you know what? If I'm going To help with people with glutathione. Same technology. I'm going to use everything else and use the glutathione, vitamin C and all the things that I know of and make it to some face cream so that my guys and girls, that they enjoy what they do.

Oh no, I know they're all listening to this now because I, I mean, I won't say that I'm by far a skin care, you know, expert, but I don't know that I've seen glutathione in skincare products.

No, because it doesn't absorb.

Because.

Oh, no, no, I should take it back. There are plenty of glutathione products in the market for skin. Nothing works, right. Nothing ever worked for this one. Until we get the technology to, and.

Do they use it for skin lightening? I mean, I just know the pharmacy that we, that, that we do business with, I've never used it and I don't think our clinicians have ever prescribed it. But I see it on the, on the pharmacology list there, that glutathione and, and the indication is for skin lightning is that.

So that's something that came out of the Asian market and they've been injecting glutathione with vitamin C every week, injections for skin lightening. And it worked. It, it does work. And so.

But why would someone want to lighten their skin? Well, vanity or is it.

Well, why would somebody want to darken the skin?

I guess that's a good.

So people that are fair wants to darken the skin. People that are dark, they want to lighten the skin. No, nobody's happy with, nobody was happy with what they have.

So somebody that's really dark pigmented could, could use high dose glutathione and vitamin C to, to actually lighten their skin.

Well, the thing is what they're really doing is they're burning all the melanin. It's, it's not a, it's not a healthy way to lighten the skin.

Okay.

When you use topical glutathione, it didn't.

Seem, it doesn't seem healthy. Yeah, it doesn't seem healthy.

But if we use a topical version, what it's actually doing is removing all the debris out. So if you have those oxidized lipids on your skin, that's coming out all the dark spots. When that goes neutralized, the skin gets all fair. So that I'm okay with it, but I'm not okay with burning the skin, burning the melanin to make it lighter.

Right.

And so that's not fun.

And when you combine these things, let's say that someone's using a transdermal glutathione, but they're also using a topical glutathione. Skin care, are they overdosing on, on glutathione? Because I assume it's the same folded protein in the topical skin.

So when, when people buy the products from us, both of them, then we always send them the video to say, okay, you can use both products at the same same day, but make sure you don't double up on the dosages. So if you're the skincare, then skip the topical version for that evening and then use the topical in the morning while there's no morning skincare glutathione in there.

How? You know, when we look at blood biomarkers, when our clinicians are prescribing Glutathione IVs, one of the main markers that we look at is alkaline phosphatase, the AST and ALT enzymes in the liver. So looking at inflammation and irritation in the liver and looking to lower those enzymes when the liver is under stress by using high doses of glutathione. And I will tell you we have substantial, albeit anecdotal, evidence that it's very effective because we'll, we'll pull labs on patients sometimes 10 to 12 weeks apart, and we'll see patients with severely elevated liver enzymes, and they respond very well to glutathione. But what you're doing telling me is they're not really responding directly to the glutathione. They're responding to that person's, the, the, that person's liver's capacity to actually reassemble the glutathione. That's really what's happening. But, but you're saying now we can remove the middleman. We can, we can, we can remove the liver and, and deliver it directly to the bloodstream.

Yeah, Liver, so much jobs, Leave them alone.

Yeah, yeah. It's got a lot to do. Trust me, I know.

So I say just give it to the time to the liver. And again, when you said that earlier about what's the max dose, can you give too much of glutathione? When I use the doses topically, about the IV doses I was using before, I have so much reactions in my patients, I said, oh, we gotta stop it. So that took me on a rabbit hole for a few years trying to figure out what dose to give, how much to give, how often to give. Do all the PK studies we had to do to make sure. How much glutan do we give? We found out that most people only need about 100 to 200 milligrams per day. That's all they need.

100 to 200 milligrams a day. Transdermal.

Transdermal.

Okay.

Compared to 2 to 2 to 10 grams of IVs.

Right.

Is, is barbaric. Right.

And IV is not practical either. I mean, I mean, yes, you could do it once a week if you really want to do them once a week or, you know, every other week or once a month. But it's like the big, high, high dose NAD drips. You know, I, I think you're better off administering low doses of NAD on a daily basis than once a month, going in for a thousand milligrams of NAD and doing this four hour, six hour iv. Unless you have something specifically going on at that time that you're trying to address.

And I'm okay with IVs if it's working for you, but if it's not working for you right, then why do it?

Right?

Or if you can get the same treatment done at your own home in 20 seconds, rub it on and you're done and go about your day. Why would you spend three hours at a doctor's office and get your IV stand? It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense. And so when you do the topical version, it is literally helping patients eliminate all these issues that you're talking about. The liver enzymes, ast, the alt, the alk phos, all those things we have seen in our patients reporting to us about having this changes being noticed within three to six months. Well, six months is kind of too far.

Right. But within three months is about when we're doing it. Twelve weeks.

But here's the thing. How many people have NASH or NFLD or cirrhosis today? It is skyrocketing. And they're predicting that over 50% of the world's population is going to have this by 2040. 2050.

50. 50% of the world's population is going.

To have NFLD or NASH or something like that. Something to do with the liver.

Wow. It is, it is non alcoholic fatty liver disease. For those people that don't know what NFLT is, that's, that's the, you know, which, which I, I didn't know it was that prevalent. But I, I will say that, you know, even in our own patient population, you see a rise in Fatty liver in patients that do not drink alcohol or certainly don't drink it excessively. And I think that link is being dispelled now that it's, it's not just high consumption of alcohol that's causing this non alcoholic fatty liver disease.

Toxicity in the environment is rampant. So when you see that and you see the liver enzymes high liver comes back to normal and you think you're cured, it's further away from that, further away from that. Just because liver enzymes are normal, that is just the inflammation is back to normal, the liver is still toxic. So it takes if not months, if it took a couple of years to completely clean it out really. So it takes a long, long time to do that part. And, and so we are very fortunate to be working with few clinicians in my neighborhood and we're helping a lot of patients try to try to clean the liver out by glutathione.

So I mean talk a little bit about, I know that you do a lot of lecturing on pharmaceuticals, pharmaceutical drug delivery routes, but talk a little bit about you know, what's, what's kind of inspiring you right now research wise with glutathione or anything else for that matter.

I mean now I'm, this is sneak peek what I'm working on right now. So two molecules that is, I'm passionate about right now. One is nad. Because now if I can, if I can deliver NAD in a, in a, in a more active form.

Oh my gosh, when you say more active form, I mean NAD is nad, is nad, right? It's NAD plus it's in the reduced form, right?

Yes.

Which is why you can't take it orally because it just neutralizes that, that, that, that the plus that you see on the back of NAD. So people take nicotinamide riboside, nicotinic acid, NMN, nicotinamide mononucleotide, which I think, you know, Dr. Sinclair has done a great job of popularizing along with his, his glucophages like metformin. You know, I think my preference would probably be berberine. But, but so, so talk about some of the promising research on NAD for that matter. I mean my understanding of NAD is you, you can't take it orally or sublingually. Right. Because you, the reduced form becomes non reduced and that you can inject it.

Well ejected is, is one, one way of getting to the system. But again my delivery system is, my product is stable in my lab for almost four years now. So I have a stable product now.

Stable nad, nad, NAD in My lab. Wow.

Only thing I have not figured out is does it go topically? Sublingually, nasal spray. Now that's my next research phase right now.

Right.

So when that, when that comes out, I'll, I'll have access to my few doctors first.

And Ned, you know, I, I think faces the same sort of stigma that if you, if you put too much NAD into the body, would you reduce your own production of nad?

I'm guessing that's true also.

I, I would as well. And again, I don't have any, any randomized clinical trial that I'm aware of to prove that. But, but so I think in, in small doses or in bolus doses, when you're, when, when you're ill or you, you're facing a viral pathogen or something, it seems to make a lot of sense. But as a supplement to extend life, you know, knowing what I know about the Krebs cycle and electron transport chain and the mitochondria, it's, it seems to make a lot of sense because, you know, nad's role in, in mitochondrial health is very well documented. But I, I guess the question becomes, can you overdose with nad or, or can we even get NAD effectively into the body through some other mechanism?

Well, that's, that's what we're going to find out. Because if you give NR or NMN or something like that, it's, it's okay because your body's stimulating those own production. So there's a rate limiting step by the body is working on to produce itself.

Right. So you're not going to overdose.

You're going to overdose. But when you give NR NAD straight up, there's a potential of overdose. And that's the same thing with glutathione. I have to do the work early on. That's why the release will not be there fast enough.

Right.

But it's in my works to get that one. But my next few products I'm working on right now is I want to get those 2, 3, 4, 5amino acid fragments, those building blocks, so the body doesn't have to work so hard and use the building blocks like Lego pieces and make, make proteins and things like that for different parts if your bone needs help with the bone fragments and skin fragments.

And so you could actually do, you know, ideally a transdermal supplement for bone repair or for, to enhance, you know, muscle anabolism or anything. Anything.

And all the small, small buildings, basically small peptides is what I'm, what I'm more interested in.

In your work with nad, are you Trying to isolate in a, you have a stable NAD product. And now the question is the, the delivery pathway? Because I mean I, I don't think having stable NAD is that earth shattering. Having stable NAD that could be administered in a non intravenous route would be pretty astounding.

So the NAD is only stable for a few hours. So the fact that we have stable for, for over a year, two years now.

And is this, is this in cold temperatures or this cold temperature? Cold temperature.

Cold temperature.

So like a refrigerator or refrigerator item?

Yeah.

Okay. And so you've stabilized it for several years and you're, you're working now with different mechanisms of, of delivery. Do you think you'll ever get to a transdermal nad? Because I have seen the NAD patches now that you, you put a strap on, you soak it with nad and you put this patch on your, your arm. I forget the brand name of. You know, it was, it was suspect to me. Not because I know anything about their science. And I will, I will say that if you know the brand, I won't mention it. But just my, my human biology meter went up a little bit because I thought, you know, that there's so many impediments to getting things transdermal that I wondered if the patch was just, you know, sort of moistly drying on the skin or if it was actually delivering nad.

If you have to soak up and put some occlusions or all kinds of things in there, it's trying to drive it because there's a lot of barriers in your skin that is allowing you to penetrate inside, right? When you, when you used to have a used barriers to, on top of the product to kind of force it in there, it, it's only going to happen so much, right? And so that's what my, my concerns are. Like when you apply glue, it just goes in like this, right?

I do notice it. I mean it's a little sticky right after I apply it and then it's just gone.

Gone.

Yeah. And then when I touch my skin, I can't, I can't feel that it's even there. I can't smell that it was there.

It's already gone. Everything. So that's, that's what I'm looking at right now. Every time we apply, like if you apply a hormone cream, if you apply testosterone or estrogens or whatever, we apply the cream, it's there for a day, right? It's slowly, slowly seeping in through the lipid layers and all those things. And so the skin is A gigantic barrier to get inside your body.

Right. It's one of those things that we warn women about. You know, our OBGYN, Dr. Sarda, is warning women about it all the time. That, you know, when they have young. Well, when they're nursing, we don't put them on hormones. But when they have young children around, especially if they're holding the children alive, I mean, those, those hormones, testosterone is the. It's the main one that they're putting on topically. They're going right through the baby's skin and right into their body. And they can cause toxic reactions because you're, you know, you're talking about putting an adult dose of babies transdermal.

Yeah. It's crazy. And so, so we, we want to make sure that any delivery system I make it needs to be effective and has to get intracellularly. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, that's okay. I have other parties to work on.

And your background was, you know, as a pharmacologist, was in drug delivery, is that right?

Or so it happened to be drug delivery. It was not. My, my. My major was pharmacy. I was a clinical pharmacist. Design drug protocols for my celebrity clients and doctors. I usually train my doctors and work with them to help their patients. So that's what I do full time. So they come to me and say, hey, I have this patient. So. And so with this issues, can you do the hormones? Can you do the endocrine hormones? They can do the nutrition plans and all of the medications they're taking. Can you make a complete package so that way we don't have duplicating drugs, making sure it's very. Everything is streamlined and see what the plans are. So that's what I design. But when happens is that all my clients, they are very high, high network individuals are looking for a little more than what they're getting.

Right? I said, so are all of mine.

This is not enough. This is, this is just barely cutting the mustard right now. I need something that is better than what this is. And so research is now. I'm spending a lot more time in research now and trying to figure out products and molecules that the people are looking for. And I want to deliver them in a more effective way because injecting products is just getting too complicated, you know.

And we've noticed that too, in our, in our clinics that, you know, the oral route of delivery is, you know, in a lot of cases is kind of a crapshoot when you look at, you know, the oral Dosage versus the serum concentration in the blood versus like when you do a cellular nutrition assay and you're seeing how much of it is actually going through the cell membrane and actually ending up in the cell. Measurable in the cell. You know, different, which we've honed in on with methylation. Different forms of B12 based on your methylation will have higher intracellular concentrations. You know, when you do these methyl detox profile tests and then you combine that with a cellular nutrition assay. So one is measuring how much is getting into the blood and then the other is how much is getting into the cell. You know, we see that, you know, all forms of B12 are not the same in terms of intracellular absorption. All forms of folate and folic acid and, and its precursors are not the same in terms of their intracellular absorption. So, you know, now that you have this stable NAD molecule, I guess the next thing is to figure out how to get it into the body and then to somehow be able to measure, you know, what's its utilization. And so talk a little bit about the role of, of NAD in the body because I think everybody by now has kind of heard of NAD and they know it's like a good thing. Yeah, but what does it really do?

And that's the part I have not dwelt too much into it personally myself, because again, first I need to figure out can I make this product? I know that it's big enough for me to work on it. And once I figure out how to get the body, how to get the into the system, I'm going to look at each and every chemical pathways that is affecting and see can I do some studies on those pathways to making sure that. Okay, now I know that it is getting to the system. It's every chemical reaction. If you look at the whole Krebs cycle, is everything is ph to Ed. Everything.

Yeah, it's all that oxidation, that, that, that reduction reaction. So then, you know, then talk about then about, you know, glutathione as the major antioxidant in, in the human body. What other, what other implications would drive somebody to need additional glutathione? Are there medications in interrupting our, our and pharmaceuticals, certain pharmaceuticals interrupting our capacity to either generate and glutathione or are they interrupting the glutathione pathway? So if I was someone listening to this podcast and I was on XYZ medication, like they say, if you're on a statin, you definitely need to be taking CoQ10.

Yes.

Right. Because statins will reduce the CoQ10 and so you should therefore supplement with it. They say if you're on methotrexate, you should be taking methylfolate. Yeah. Or well they say folic acid, but really methylfolate because it interrupts that pathway. So what are some of the, you know, common pharmaceuticals that people that are listening to this podcast might be taking that would give them even more impetus to take?

So glutathione, all the medication that goes to your liver.

Pretty much everything.

Pretty much exactly. That's what I'm saying. All your blood pressure pills, all your hormones, you're taking both the granular hormones as well as pituitary hormones, antidepressants that you're taking antibiotics.

So ghrelin hormones. So, so like the semaglutides and the tirzepatides, those, those GLP1 and GDP inhibitors.

That'S a whole different animal. So if you're talking about the semaglutide, all the GLP1s, what's happening today is that these people are losing weight. They're losing the adipose tissue. Adipose tissue is actually sequestering all your toxins in your body and holding it and now we're letting it go.

Yes.

Imagine that you go out on the streets and the garbage guy is not coming up and all the trash is on the streets everywhere now.

Yes, I warn about this all the times in these rapid weight loss patients, you know, a lot of them end up getting quite sick. I mean just when I say quite sick, I mean not deathly ill, but just these prolonged flu like symptoms while they're experiencing very rapid weight loss from the release of these toxins in, in the fat cells.

That's what really glutathione to conjugate them and kind of sequester them back and just dump it in the urine and intestines. But to make that happen, they gotta drink lots of water, make sure they eat fiber. They have to have the proper diet. If you're eating the CentAmerican diet, sad, they need glutathione like everywhere. Yeah, like yesterday.

Right.

But if they need SAD diet then, then they may not be able to afford glutathione in the first place.

They're still eating the food pyramid with lucky charms at the very top. Yeah. Over grass fed steak.

So anyway, so those are things. If you're using those toxic cosmetic products, that's another issues too. So there's so many things.

Yeah, there's. You know, I had an interesting conversation about the toxic cosmetic products the other day with Dr. Barbara Sturm. She's, she's a, she's an MD. She started Dr. Sturm Cosmetics and her, her whole idea was to, you know, put, get these non toxic cosmetics out into the marketplace. But you know, she said something very interesting to me. She said that, you know, all these young, especially girls are shopping at Sephora and they're, and you know, when they're, they're growing up and they're prepubescent, you know, they're so they're either prepubescent or they're just entering puberty. And a lot of these endocrine disruptors and hormone disruptors that are, and chemicals and synthetics that are in these makeups that are highly unregulated are having demonstrative effects on these now. Yeah, you understand if it's, if it's a, if it's able to affect a young, you know, non menstruating female or have them start their menstrual cycle early, I mean, just think of the effects in adult men and women too for some of these topicals. And so are our topical cosmetics, you know, are, are those not only increasing the need for glutathione, but you know, what are your, what is your feeling on a lot of these topical cosmetics in terms of their hormone disruption or endocrine disruption?

So a lot of the cosmetics, I have removed the endocrine disruptors out of the system because the clean beauty is everywhere. Now people are putting the ingredients list on the famous search engines and figure out, okay, I'm not going to take these chemicals because it's not going to be healthy for me. So they're doing that part. But what you're talking about are those young people, they cannot have the resources. They're going to those favorite mass marketers and buying the fancy creams. They're cheap but don't have the clean beauty sticker on it or something that they have not, is not formulated by pharmacists that understands the chemicals.

Right.

And so it's there, but it's getting less and less. If you ask me, the single 20 years ago, I will tell you, oh my God, you had a huge problem.

Yeah. What are some of the things that moms and dads can look for on the back of those labels that they don't want their kids putting on their face? Some of those like retinas or.

So my biggest pet peeve is anything to do with the retin. Retin. A retinol. It is, it is very toxic to young girls. It's very toxic. I mean, you don't give vitamin A to anybody, young girls, especially if they're going to get pregnant. In fact, vitamin A is something in the pharmacy. We do pregnancy test before you prescribe it to you. Wow, is that toxic? But the retinol has been used, like everybody uses it.

I said I see it in everything.

It is toxic.

Yeah. So you think that a lot of these retinal creams are. And those are things to be avoided because they're direct endocrine disruptors.

They are. Then we have also have the quinones, the hydroquinones, the skin lightening agents.

Yeah.

Even though they are seeing a lot.

Of those, you can get them at Costco in like, tubs. Really?

Yeah. Like a mayonnaise jar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just slather it on your face.

But I think what we need to do is we need people like you to educate. We need people like you to bring this out, to tell people that, hey, look at these things, you know.

Yeah.

Don't take my word for it. Do your own research if you have to.

So. So as an offset to some of these, like, chemical assaults. And I'm a huge believer that the dose dosage does not really determine the poison. Sometimes the cumulative dosage determines the poison that, you know, sometimes something may not be toxic in a given dosage, like cyanocobalamin, the cyanide based form of B12. But in cumulative doses, it can certainly have a detrimental effect, especially when you look at the detoxification pathway. Like, okay, well, one thing is, how does this get into the body? And the second thing that is very often overlooked is how does it get out? What are the byproducts of methylating this nutrient? And then how does the body rid itself of those byproducts which should, for this, further support the need for excess glutathione. And so in your opinion, a daily regular dose, 200 milligrams of glutathione applied topically day or even day and night is not going to have any long term detrimental effects on endogenous production.

So that comes to a very good question that you asked me right now is, and this is something that I've been pondering on for a while now, because when you ask a question, can your body take too much glutathione? And the answer is no, until the topical version came in. This topical version, if you take too much of it, is straight available, bioavailable to your body. So your body can actually go from oxidative stress state to the opposite, which is reductive state. And so that is unhealthy, that is not healthy at all.

When you say reductive state, what does that mean?

There you go. Because you have never heard of it before. Because it doesn't exist, right? It doesn't exist. No. There's no medication in the world today that can put your body from oxidative stress state to 0 oxidation 0 null. And when you go to that state, your body cannot, your body becomes very lazy, it becomes reactive. So that's where you get rashes and itching and, and so, and it's not.

A healthy state to be in the reduced, reduced state.

So the question is, can I get to a high enough but not overboard? So that was my first research because that's what I first found out. I said, hey, what is this happening? Right. So I need to figure that portion out first thing. So when I say 100 milligrams twice a day or 200 milligrams twice a day, maximum dose is because at that dosages I'm getting your RBC levels of glutathione to high normal. But it's not going overboard. It's like for example, testosterone. Testosterone is from 250 to 1100. But the guys are taking enough design to go to 1500, 2000.

Right.

You can't do that with glutathione.

Right.

Because if you get two more, the body flips out.

Why? Because it, it literally is just pulling too much out of the cell.

Yes. And it's not healthy at all. The body gets into her reactions.

Yeah. And so we, most of us have.

A very difficult time meeting our protein needs. And certain protein sources like whey protein and, and others can be as little as 20% absorbable. This is 99% absorbable. And it has all of the essential amino acids that the body needs to build lean muscle, to recover, to improve our exercise performance and most importantly to repair after we have intense exercise. So this is called perfect amino by Body Health. It's like I said, 99% absorbable. It only has two calories. Eventually the caloric intake has virtually no caloric intake. It will not break in a fast. It tastes amazing. You mix it in water. I take this literally every single morning. If you're working out in a fasted state, you have to take a full spectrum amino acid prior to your workout to preserve your lean muscle and make sure that you're recovering properly. And again, it will not break your fast. So the caloric impact is virtually zero. You get all of the full spectrum amino acids. It tastes wonderful. I use it every single day. You can go to bodyhealth.com ultimate that's bodyhealth.com ultimate and look for the perfect aminos. They actually come in capsules if you're on the go. Or it becomes in several flavors that they make in a powder, which I love. It's flavored with natural means of flavoring. So there's no artificial sweeteners in here. So this is one of my absolute favorite products. Give it a try. If you're working out at all, you need a full spectrum amino acid, go to bodyhealth.com ultimate that's bodyhealth.com forward slash ultimate. I love their lab tested products. You can actually see the absorption rate for all of their products. They've got great electrolyte protein combinations. My favorite is the Perfect Aminos. Body health.com ultimate and now back to the ultimate human podcast.

This is this. So this way we. If you stick to the dosaging, then you never have a problem with it and you can take it for rest of your life and no issues whatsoever. But the only time it happens is when I have a lot of clients, they think that, oh, glutton, if this is that good, I'll take more.

Yeah, everybody feels the same way. They do it with good, the cold plunges. They do it with everything. You know, I see like these guys getting 37 degree cold plunges underwater for 12 minutes. You know, getting the sauna as hot as they can possibly get until it's almost third degree burning their skin and staying in there for 40 or 60 minutes. It's like more is not necessarily better. Some of these, you know, treatments are meant to be like guardrails, you know, like a little bit of cold shock, you know, can do the body phenomenal good. A little bit of heat shock can do the body tremendous, tremendous good. Sweating. A little bit of oxygen, but not too much oxygen. A little bit of red light, but not too much red light. A little bit of sunlight, but not overdoing it in. Sunlight and glutathione appears to be the same thing. And how, how soon can someone start taking glutathione? I mean, can you take glutathione if you're a child? I mean, or is it weight dependent? So like an absorption.

So we give to young kids, like one month old babies. We have done that in the past, but most of the time, if you're under the age of 30, your body is able to keep up with the demand.

Okay.

It's able to keep up with the demand. Unless you have disorders where you have a gene mutations where you cannot conjugate that, then those are. People end up with spectrum disorder. Those people are going to need lifelong therapy with low thyroid. So those are different.

So you're even saying spectrum disorders because, you know, autism is, as I understand it, direct. The intensity of the spectrum is somewhat related to the amount of neural inflammation. And obviously, if we get reduced neural inflammation, that would be a good thing in all of these kinds of conditions like autism and ADD and ADHD and Alzheimer's and dementia and any other neuropathic condition of the brain, I would assume, can benefit from reduced neural inflammation. But are you saying there's a special need for those people that are. That are autistic or might be on. On the spectrum spectrum.

Any spectrum disorder. I want to give a plug to Dr. Joseph Maroon. He's a chief neurologist at Pittsburgh University. He's the team doctor for Pittsburgh Steelers.

Okay. So he's gonna be next on my podcast.

By the way, we've been working on. We've been working with him on this glutathione because this is the only glutathione that has shown to improve blood across blood and barrier to show some positive results in patients with concussions and oh, CTs and. Yeah.

Traumatic brain injury.

So, I mean, if listeners out there looking for it, please help us. We're looking for funding to NIH because we want to go through NIH to do the clinical trial to see if we can brain map the glutathione completely.

Oh, wow. So you can actually.

We have. We have a patent. There's a guy who was a patent or a system where he can do the brain mapping of glutathione levels without a needle. It's just a really scanner.

Wow. And so we scans and picks up those three amino acids.

No glutathione.

That's what I mean, the three glutathione.

The glutathione itself.

Wow.

And so if you see a hot spot in the frontal lobe and that's the cause of Parkinson's. Wait a second. If I can get the levels up to high enough to the frontal lobe, is there possible that I can reduce the chance of Parkinson's or can I treat it differently? What dose do I give, how often to give, how much I give? So, I mean, we would love to do those kinds of work next as well, because we've seen the results, but the results are too sporadic. It requires a formal trial to figure out what needs to be done. And then we can predict Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's, als. I mean, there is no treatment today for any neurological disorders.

Right. I mean, there's management, but no, there's.

Nothing because we don't know anything at this point.

Yeah. That we're really managing symptoms. We've, you know, it's what, what's astounding to me is that in the amount of conditions like this autoimmune, even specifically where we label the immune system as being dysfunctional, like it's turned on the body, you know, Crohn's disease, it's attacking the colon, you know, and Chagrin's, it's attacking the lacrimal gland and you know, Hashimoto's, it's attacking the thyroid. But, but the question is, why do we have such a parabolic rise in these autoimmune conditions? I mean, are we just having a parabolic rise in the humanity's immune systems breaking down? I don't believe that. I believe that the immune system has always been in majority of cases properly functioning. It is just attacking some kind of pathogen, bacteria, mycotoxin, heavy metal. I mean, I just read a study on heavy metal toxicity in Hashimoto's and how there is an enormously high prevalence of metals within the thyroid in patients whose immune system is attacking the thyroid. And maybe it's not actually attacking the thyroid, it's actually trying to get the to the heavy metal and it's destroying the thyroid tissue in the process. What kind of implications does glutathione have for autoimmune conditions or so for the autoimmune?

The main thing, what we do is if the causing agent is something that glutathione can conjugate and detoxify.

And what is it really good at conjugating and detoxifying heavy metals?

For sure.

Glutathione.

Yes.

Really?

So we had done a 34 patient trial. We were hired by this company out of Japan. They wanted to do a heavy metal detox. Japan has a lot of metal toxicity. Even today's date. Wow. And so they wanted to do something with glutathione to do a detox studies. Of course, everything passed. Only thing they could not pass is who's going to apply this stuff, sticky stuff, on the arms every day. So they kind of.

I would if I had heavy metal toxicity. Especially in my brain. Yeah, I'm bathing it, you know.

Exactly. But I guess they did not like that idea. They tried to get it orally, but it, it worked for arsenic, mercury, cadmium. We could not figure out aluminum and we could not figure out lead, but those three were.

Mercury is, is right up there with the most common heavy metal toxicities in the world. And so it was able to, what helped to methylate out the.

They saw an increase in the urine excretion of all this heavy metals.

Wow.

Yeah.

With administration of 200 milligrams of this transdermal twice a day.

Yep.

100 milligrams twice a day.

Yeah.

And do you have any other specific indications for it that you've done randomized trials on?

So we have, we have, we have only done one randomized trial. And the trial was done. It was an IB approved in California for just absorption. And what they want to do is they thought that if gluten is that, if you say that this is this powerful, I want to see, can you get rid of mycobacterium? There's no cure for Mycobacterium avium at this point or tuberculosis, anything, any mycobacterium. There's no antibiotics for that.

Right, right.

You do a one year long treatment for antibiotics and hopefully it'll goes away. But it doesn't go away. Then you do a test every, every year to see if it's there. So it was a three day trial. Three day trial.

Three day trial for mycobacterium.

Yes. And what they found out was they applied the glutathione over here. They drew the blood in one hour. In four hours the load went down for mycobacterium. No, it's not antibiotic. But what happened was they saw a rise in all the interleukins, the IL2, the IL12, the TNF alpha, interferon gamma, all the cytokines, they are pro. Inflammatory to help get rid of, to activate the macrophages, to go get the bugs and get rid of it from your body.

Right.

We saw within one hour.

Wow.

And so that was published, that was published last year in the Journal of Antioxidant. It was just. And people could not believe that it was just a three day trial because in three, what are you gonna see in three days?

Right.

We needed three.

It's the shortest trial I've ever heard.

Yeah. We only did one day.

Wow.

And one day we saw these results coming in. They saw a reduction of, of the md, which is oxidative stress markers, within four hours.

Wow. So someone could expect that. I mean, again, I don't, I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth or overplay you know, the role of glutathione, but as a strategy for healthy aging, for longevity. For those people that are like, I, I want to be as optimal as possible. What's a safe dosage? What's a safe amount of time to use it? And you know, without knowing intracellular levels or your methyl detox profile, you know, what's a, what's a, what's a safe protocol for somebody that says, all right, I like what I'm hearing. I mean, glutathione's certainly something I want to add to my regimen.

So I would suggest everybody to. If they have no conditions whatsoever, they are otherwise completely healthy. And, you know, everybody has little issues here and there. That's not a big deal if they don't have major conditions. 100 milligrams are the glitter. Four sprays twice a day is a great starting and ending dose.

Okay.

Because he's just getting enough every single day, twice a day, to keep on body, helping your body slowly, slowly get rid of all the toxins out of your system.

I mean, we know that I talk about this all the time, how, you know, cancer is essentially a metabolically healthy cell shifting to a metabolically sick cell, it's becoming metabolically sick. And there's evidence that metabolically sick cells can actually be reverted back to metabolically healthy cells. I certainly don't want to make the stretch that it's anti cancer, but, but it would, it would seem to me that, you know, healthy detoxification pathways, healthier, you know, waste elimination. I'm talking about cellular waste elimination. Healthy detoxification from, from glutathione would result in less sick cells, metabolically sick cells.

And again, we do work with a lot of oncologists and they've been using in some, some protocols here and there.

But, you know, I've heard, I've actually heard not to use glutathione if you're an oncology treatment because it will protect the cancer cell from the.

That's a theory. Okay, That's a theory. Because again, no glutathione was ever been invented to intra intercellular levels anyways.

Ah.

So that's just a theory. And again, we don't prescribe anything, so they have to be working with their own oncologists to making sure that they're working for them. I mean, we had some great success stories. This is again, patient of one patient here, one patient there. But they are coming up with the stories of one lady had a stage four cancer spread to the liver 2% survival rate. She's a physician herself.

Wow.

2% survival rate. Prescribed so much chemotherapy that if the cancer did not kill her, chemotherapy will kill her. That was how much was prescribed. And so she asked the doctor and said, can I take glutathione with it? Because the doctor goes, hey, you got 2% survival rate, you get to do what you want to do.

Right.

So she used the product in conjunction with all the chemotherapy. What found out was after 18 months of chemo, she had no side effects from the chemo. And today she's cancer free.

Wow.

Because of the chemo. But the thing is, how many people get to see on the other side of chemo, healthy functioning with no side effects. So that was something that was very, very different and unique. So again, this is not a chemo drug at all. It's not gonna help with cancer. I don't think so personally, but there's a potential that if you work with the oncologist, that there's a chance that you can work in conjunctions with other treatments to see if we can protect the other cells.

Yeah, of course. Cause I mean, I would imagine, I mean, chemotherapy is not just damaging to cancer cells. It's damaging, it's toxic to all the cells, which is why people lose their hair and they become very frail. Muscle waste and neuropathy is a big one. Yeah. Neuropathy being a big one. And in post oncology, do you see that glutathione is helping accelerate the return back to normalcy by helping to. With.

So what I can see physically is, you know, if somebody's on a chemo, it shows up on the skin, this becomes completely lathery.

Yeah.

Like this.

Yes.

It's very flat. And you can see, you can tell that this person was on chemotherapy drug because the oxygen stress is so high that there's no collagen production in your skin. On your face, everything is gone.

No collagen production.

Yeah, it's just. It's just damaging your skin as an organ completely.

Right.

So when we give the glutathione, I start seeing all the pinkish hue coming on the face and they start glowing better, they feel better. So I. That visually I can see that part. What's happening, certainly, I do not know, but visually I do see that part. So that was the early on for me to design the skincare line was for people they were using for chemotherapy because I was using post chemo patients to use this product for them.

Because you got to go really direct to the skin because you can't really trust the internal route because it's been so damaged from chemotherapy, especially if that had radiation in that area. Several patients that have had radiation in the throat region and the, and the outside of the skin is badly damaged.

That's all oxidative stress. And glutathione is the perfect medicine to reduce oxidative stress down.

Yeah, you know, I, I, I love the, you know, I use the analogy all the time of, you know, in plant biology, when we fix the soil, the nutrients in the soil, the plant heals the trunk, the leaves, the branches. I, I use that analogy all the time. I feel like we've kind of stop thinking about human beings this way, that we've lost a lot of faith in humanity and mankind. You know, the body's ability for the brain to heal the body, for the body to heal itself. And I think we rarely try to support healthy waste elimination and detoxification. And I mean, at a cellular level, when we're talking about pathology and disease, we're just so narrowly focused on what the pathology is, what the disease condition is, and we don't look at the consequences of the body's own waste elimination pathways being compromised. And I see very little downside as a human biologist in supporting healthy cellular.

Waste elimination because it's been ingrained in our minds that us in America, we want to solve world's problem, we can solve the body's problem. The body says, no, I can deal with my own problems. Just give me the nutrients I need and I'll take care of it. Don't give me medicine, don't fix my problem. I can fix my.

And that's coming from a pharmacist, right? I'm sorry, but yeah, you're not very popular in your profession.

That's why you'll never see me behind the counter working in the pharmacy anymore. Because they'll probably not a lot of.

Keynote speeches coming your way for the pharmacy conventions.

I do do speeches. Oh, you do? But not for, not for. I teach people on how to think outside the box because I tell my pharmacist, I said, if you want to progress in a profession, you got to help people get healthy. The drugs Today we have 3,000 plus medications in my pharmacy today. None is helping you solve your problem.

They're managing a problem, managing your symptoms.

But they're not solving anything for you. And that's why my book says the glutath Revolution, why it is truly a revolution. Because if you understand what glutathione does, glutathione is just empowering your body. It's just empowering your body to do what it's supposed to do. And when you do that part, you're not solving the problem for the body, you're just giving the ammunition. So the body's going to do everything on its own. You're just, hey, just feeding them with the nutrients that the body needs and just sit back and relax and enjoy the body.

Yeah. You know, I saw a talk from, I want to say it was the Age Management Medicine group conference. I think it was an internist that spoke at the Age Management Medicine group conference that broke down the. Just what you were saying about pharmaceuticals by category. If you, if you were to broadly categorize them as disease maintenance or, or disease management and symptom maintenance, you would encapsulate 99 of all the pharmaceuticals on the market right now.

Yeah.

If you were to then look at cure based outcomes, you would have less than 1% are designed to completely stop. And those were mainly the antibiotics, pharmaceuticals that were directly related to a specific pathogenic infection. I don't know how much truth there is to that. I haven't looked that statistic up myself. But even if it's anywhere in that realm, it just shows you that, you know, our focus is on maintaining a disease state, but managing the symptoms from that disease state. Like, you know, we don't take metformin or insulin to stop diabetes. Right. We take it to manage diabetes resistance.

Yeah.

And most people are managing their diabetes for, for an entire lifetime.

That and the reason, because it's reversing it. What we have found out is in the medicine is that we see one enzyme and say, oh, if I block this enzyme, if I block this pathway, I'll solve the problem. But if you do not know that this enzyme is going to be in 10 of the reactions.

Right. Very myopically looking at this enzyme. Yeah. I mean I've often said that some of the, some of the worst research in my opinion done on human beings is, is where we study things in isolation. Right. Just like you're saying we, we isolate one redox reaction or we isolate one enzyme. And we say based on this finding, when I put it back into the human body, it's going to behave exactly like this.

That's it.

And it doesn't.

And unfortunately, I'm not here to badmouth government at this point, but I'm just.

Telling that no one in my audience will take bad mouth in the government.

But FDA is looking at approving drugs based on outcomes for particular diseases.

Yeah.

And so there's no nutraceuticals as FDA approved product, but you have to be attached to a particular outcome so they can see if you get these outcomes. Fine, I'll give it to you. But if you just say that, hey, if this is safe and there's no problem with it, and we're just replacing glutathione back in your system, they will not approve the drug because what does it do? Well, there's so many reactions.

Right.

Well, we can't. You cannot market. This product has all these reactions. What are you going to market as?

Right.

So they're looking at what are you going to mark it as? And if that's what you market, that's all you can say it. So let's see. If you say that gluten is going to be good for removing alcohol from your body. Okay. That's all you're going to say?

Right.

Show me a study. And that's how you measure that part. But yet that is not even the main focus. The main focus is so much more. And so we have lost focus on how we get the drug approval process. And quite honestly, I think we need to figure this thing out to see what else can we do to have better medicine for, for mankind to flourish instead of solving the problems. Of solving the problems for our body. That's. That's what I'm going at.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. So, Dr. Patel, what else does my audience need to know about glutathione and where, where it's the next five years for? Dr. Patel, in a perfect world, what's going to come out of your lab in the next, in the next five years?

Well, next five years, my patients are probably not going to see a whole lot of drugs because if it comes out, it'll be coming out to the doctor's offices first.

Okay.

You know, it's like, just keep in mind because it took me 15 years to release Glutathione.

Wow. I discovered back in 2007 just because of the research.

Research. I never released any product until I know for a fact that I'm going to give it to myself, my dad, family, everybody else.

Right.

And they're healthy as hell.

Yeah.

And then I make sure that I have some studies to back it up and I do my own research to make sure that what I'm creating is, is actually working for my patients. So.

Okay.

But if you're working with you or doctors offices that I work with, you'll have early access to those products.

Okay.

These are my small Fragments. I'm looking at some skin peptides right now. I'm looking at NAD as a peptide right now. So I'm looking at few products that are earth shattering because I have very few years left in my research trial, maybe 10, 20 years left. And I want to make sure that I make a major impact. Glutathione itself is once in a lifetime impact for me. But if I have one more product above and beyond, that will be.

And right now you've got NAD and development and a few peptides. That's amazing to hear. Well, I, I always end every podcast by asking my guests the same question. So there's, there's no right or wrong answer to this question, but what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

Oh, wow. Okay, I'm going to give you a story because I just lost my father two weeks ago.

Sorry.

So he was, he was 89, walking six miles per day, enjoying life travels, the world. He just fell down and just caught, am I. No, he fell down. Blunt force trauma on his head, hemorrhaging, and the cause of death they say was brain hemorrhage. Because he was stable, conscious, everything was fine. We talked to Dr. Joseph Maroon, you know, talked to him, he just, he saw the CT scan, everything was fine. So to be the ultimate human, what I see, I look at my dad, I said, I wish I can literally do everything I wanted to do. Walk, travel, enjoy life, everything. When my time is up, just pick me up, pick me up. And hopefully my time is not until 1:20 or 1:50, hopefully. But when my time is up, just pick me up. Do not make me suffer. And so everything that I do today is making sure that I give my body the chance to literally self heal itself. I want it to completely be free of medicine, free of, free of every single thing that is not natural to humans. Yeah, if I can do that part and the body is just like perpetually healing itself and goes all the time, that'll be ultimate for me.

Fantastic. Dude, what a great answer. What an absolutely amazing answer. And I happen to philosophically really agree with you. I feel like modern medicine is coming full circle. We're getting back to the basics. We're starting to realize that, that we should believe more in what God gave us than what man makes us. And that when we enhance the things that nature provided us from the very beginning, we start to release, we start to reach things like, you know, ending disease and pathology and really living an optimal life. So I philosophically really agree with you. I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast today. I think everybody is going out to buy glutathione right now. I literally, you know, it's funny, I actually, I use your product and I actually sprayed it on my forearm before I came in here. Especially for those of you that have the MTHFR gene mutation or other gene mutations that interrupt glutathione, you know, pathways and, and, and cellular waste elimination. He is an. A phenomenal human being. Has an incredible product. I will put it in the show notes below. How can people find out more about you? How can people find you get your book.

The book is a little bit everywhere. I think it's on most has audible as a Kindle.

Okay.

I'm a paper book kind of guys. I have a paper books. So it has on my website as well. My website is oralwellness.com oral wellness a u r o wellness.com forward slash Gary.

Ah, forward slash Gary. I got my own.

You're gonna get your own landing.

Oral Wellness A U R. Oh, wellness.com orowellness.com so we'll put that in the show notes too. I'll put a link to your book in there. Do you have an Instagram?

I do have an Instagram.

Okay.

It's at. At Oral Wellness.

Okay. Same thing. Okay.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

So we'll drive at Oral Skincare as well. We have two of us. Yeah. You know, it's just people are people when they feel good from inside.

Yeah.

They will look beautiful too.

Yeah.

Right. So we want to help them.

Okay.

We really do.

Great. Thank you for coming on the podcast today. This was amazing, my friend.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

And that's just science.