Deep Dive Into Container Self Storage With Standby Self Storage Episode

Hi everybody and welcome to our latest edition of our podcast and we're joined today by Michael. Thanks very much for joining Michael.

Thank you for having me. So I'm from Standby Sol Storage and Quick Fit Container Accessories. I operate out of Horsham, West Sussex. We've got eight locations, Standby currently and then we also operate the Container Accessories out of Horsham, selling all the parts and bits and pieces for shipping containers.

Great. Well Michael, thanks very much for joining us. So it's great to have you because you have the perspective of starting and building and running a self storage business across eight sites as well as obviously being a supplier. So you know the industry really well. So I'm sure when we go through a few of the questions, you'll have lots of insights and hopefully, you know, I think, I think it's going to be a really interesting episode as well. So first of all, what inspired you to get into the self storage business? And obviously you've hit sites now, but you have to start with one. How did you approach kind of your, your first site?

Yeah, well, I guess we, we would always. We came from property previously and it, we, we found a, we had like a site that was, was garages and sort of like a scaffold yard and it was quite, quite run down in Croydon. Um, and our plan was initially was to create small industrial units, kind of like light industrial kind of work units. I think we had room for about nine on this, on the site. We sort of went through the process of getting planning for it and it was around kind of 2008. It was kind of like, we got to a point with it where we're actually like this is going to cost us quite a bit to set up, you know, the outlay and everything. And we were kind of like, you know, the units were a bit kind of, I guess they needed to be, they needed to be, they were kind of like over spec because if they needed to have like grassroots to meet certain requirements, the local council. But the land had B8 already, B8 industrial use. So we kind of, we then change, change tax on it and we went for self container, self storage, which kind of, we kind of got the idea. We kind of looked around and we found we were kind of looking for other options, sort of small sort of light industrial sort of units. And then we kind of, we were kind of looking. So we thought there was like a demand for like that kind of storage sort of side of things. You know, not necessarily, we weren't necessarily thinking personal at the time. We Were just kind of thinking more, more from a business perspective. And we then we, yeah we, that's where we really came across sort of self storage. But we really think, we kind of always thought oh you know, the warehouse side things was a bit different at the time. We were very, yeah kind of like business focused on kind of. Yeah, it kind of grew from there really. And because round our way there wasn't really any other competition, you know, there wasn't anyone really in Croydon doing that kind of thing or in Surrey and Sussex there were quite few and far between. So it was more just kind of like ubiquito sort of larger self storage operators. That was really the only real comparison at the time.

So what year was it that you opened? So sound like you were looking at this at 2008 at the site. Did you open shortly after that or how long did that take you from there to opening?

We, we started the works in 2010 and then opened in 2011. So yeah, it's, yeah, it took a while in, in the first person and our kind of, our plan initially was to run it remotely, have everything set up so that people could book online. And we kind of quickly learned that because it was quite a small site. I think in all it had about, about 60 units but only about 25, 20 foot containers. There's a lot of quite a few small ones on the site as well. And it was, we kind of, we filled it up really quickly and we kind of decided against the, on, you know, investing in the online booking system at the time just because we thought we didn't really need that to sort of do for that kind of size size site at the time. And but yeah, we always wanted to sort of go that, that next step with it and then also kind of like do like a kiosk outside of the, outside of the gates. People could book but from just outside of just, just sort of turn up and book as well. That was always sort of the plan.

Initially you mentioned that in 2008 you, you know, you thought you decided to go into self storage. Do you remember at what point did you kind of see the self storage industry and think that looks interesting. Do you remember what it was that kind of attracted you to it in the first place?

I think guys, I think my great uncle rented a container over Guildford Way. He mentioned it to us and we, yeah, we thought that's quite an interesting idea. And we looked at, looked at that site and then that kind of gave us an idea kind of that other people were doing that kind of Thing as well. And that's that sort of. Yeah, I think it was always sort of like we were kind of more at the time we, we were looking at sort of also like the sort of block built units. We looked at quite a few different ways to do it. Sort of like with roller shutters, a little bit like what you get in the States. We looked at a few different ways to do it. Yeah, it's kind of like, kind of came from there really and did.

Whenever you opened In Croydon, so 2011, did you have some kind of long term vision for standby storage or you know, has it just kind of evolved as it's gone as time has passed?

I think we always wanted to do more but once we realized that what. Yeah. How, how well it went initially, we were kind of. Yeah. Looking. Looking to see what else we could get. I think the struggle always was like getting the locations either freehold or on a lease long enough to make it really viable. And it's kind of gone through the years. You kind of go through phases. I feel like where there's a lot of availability and then there's not. Not much, you know. Yeah. Or you find nowadays sometimes you find places where there's a lot more competition and you think, oh, maybe it's not worth setting up there and then, you know, you go through phases of. Of it. But I think we've always kind of looked to sort of grow. Grow the business and get more. Definitely. But it's just. Yeah, kind of always. We've always been cautious about where we go.

So the challenge is finding, finding one of the biggest challenges, often finding new locations. So do you see that, do you see that then in cycles. Is that how you've, you've experienced that over the past 13 or 14 years? Sometimes lots of, lots of opportunity and into some times or it's just expensive. There's nothing in the market.

Yeah, yeah. Or it's not like if it's a leasehold, maybe it's not long enough. You know, they won't offer it on a. Like a long enough lease. Yeah, generally I always try and look for like 10, 10 years plus anything, anything less than that really we just tend to avoid because of sort of like return on investment. It takes, we find it usually takes a while, you know, a few years. So you got to pay off your containers and all your initial outlay and everything.

So you have eight sites. How many containers do you have across all eight sites?

I think about 800 roughly. My head, various sizes. I've got quite a few Multi door split units. So yeah, I think it's over a thousand units in total. But yeah, I think container shipping, container wise it's around about 850, something like that.

Okay, okay. So your average site has about 100, 110 container, container sized storage on it. So relatively. There are some container sites. 500,000, yeah, relatively small sites. What sort of size in acres are your sites roughly? Do you look for half an acre? Do you look for an acre? Do you have a minimum maximum?

Yeah, they vary. Yeah, we've taken a couple of smaller ones sort of initially but yeah, then we kind of. Yeah. Went really. When sort of bigger and bigger really sort of. We got got. We've got one site with the horseshoe one that we've kind of. Initially we had half acre and then we actually over the years we've got the options to sort of take additional parts. So we've actually now got that up to like 2.5 acres. Um, just about, about six weeks ago we managed to obtain sort of an acre next door. So it's sort of given us an additional space to grow that one. But some of the others, yeah we got, got one that's like half acre one. There's a couple of others that's sort of just under an acre. Yeah, it just depends really how many sort of.

If anyone's listening who's kind of getting new. I think we're getting into containers and looking at some lab. If you look at let's say half an acre. What's, what's the, what sort of size of like how many 20 foot containers would you be thinking about on that sort of size of plot or does it just depend on double stacking and all sorts of.

Yeah, yeah, I mean that, yeah, it would really depend on, yeah, the light, the shape of the site, the layout. I guess like the, the height levels as well. Just like the different, the different levels like the site we're taking, that we've just taken in Horsham like we've had to. It kind of drops down. It's like an old gas works and it kind of dropped down in stages. We've had to like have a ramp built from one, one section to another to say that the vehicles can get in and out kind of thing. But yeah, I think, yeah, that, that is sort of a big, a big factor. It's getting everything, getting everything level is always a challenge because if you can then go upstairs. Yeah, then that's the sort of thing that quite often is sort of like an afterthought and you fill up, you think, oh, this has a few. But if you haven't got everything level in the beginning, then it kind of. Yeah, it makes it really tough to.

Get everything you have to plan in advance. And yeah, if you want to do a second floor, you got to be, got to be preparing for it before you even put in your first containers. What about leasing versus buying the land that your containers are on? So do you lease your all eight sites that you have or do you have a combination of owning some and leasing some?

It's combination. Yeah, we own three of our sites and then the others. Yeah, I mean it's always great to buy them if you can, isn't it? But yeah, it just depends on, on the opportunity and yeah, if it's, if it's possible.

Okay. So that your approach is kind of, if you find a bit of land you like that's available to buy or lease, you'll, you'll be interested either way.

Yeah. Yeah. Providing it's a long. Yeah. A longer lease. Yeah, that's. Yeah, we wouldn't. Yeah. Or freehold. Yeah.

And if you're looking at a leasehold then you mentioned earlier that you'd look for at least 10 years. Is there, is there anything else you look for there? Like do you look for specific rights? If anyone else is looking at and like this, like, are there, is there advice you would give but you know, make sure not to, not to make, you know, this mistake. Like I don't know. Is there anything that you've experienced where you know, you're very careful about how you approach leasehold?

Yeah, I think, I think it's like obviously you've got like the Landlord Intent Act. It's important. It's, it's better that you, if you, if you can keep the rights to renew the lease, you've got a better chance of obviously negotiating the new lease because of otherwise you're kind of immediately on the back foot when you, when you go into the negotiation to renew the lease. I think also like just access hours, you know, hours of access like make sure, like, you know, make sure there's no sort of restrictions or anything or like, you know, planning conditions or anything is always a bit, got to be a bit careful with. Yeah. Sort of like knowing like the, the neighbors who, who's, who's nearby and what they're likely to access they're going to use it for and things like that as well. Like on industrial states sometimes you know, lorries and stuff, it can block up the roads and stuff for access. You Know, things like that. Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, interesting actually for my first site here in Northern Ireland, it was next door to a recycling center and it didn't ever. We never got blocked but there were a lot of recycling trucks and lots of dust and, and it led to quite a lot of dust in my, inside my facility. Even though I had a roller shutter when it was open, a lot of dust. So yeah, it was fine. It didn't ever cause any major issues but it was something that, you know, I had to spend more in cleaning and just, you know, the place was a little bit dirtier than I would have liked as a result.

Yeah.

Okay. And have you ever. One of the things I'm always interested about leases is have you ever had to vacate some property and actually move, you know, 50 containers off the new site? Has that ever happened to you or have you not had to?

Well, yeah, years ago we had a site in Thames Ditton that we, it was actually, it had previous, it had previous uses like car storage, but it was very, it was special. It was just car storage use only but B8 Industrials. We tried to get planning on it for containers that for like a, for the small. Is only a small site but it was a really good location and yeah, we just, we just couldn't get it and yeah, we had to pull out that one in the end and yeah, that was, yeah that was a shame. But yeah, that was. Yeah, it's just one of those things like it was a sort of like between two railway lines and then the, the, the, the residential, residential sort of next door neighbors were kind of the other side of the railway line and yeah, we just couldn't get, get the permission approved for it. We was like, we couldn't believe it. We just. Because it was such a good site like. But yeah, and how many containers did you have?

Did you have containers with people stuff in them that you had to then move?

No, no, no, no. We we, we just started the process of. We, we had like, we kind of. It was with network Rail and we kind of, we had to, we couldn't not opt in. We had to sign the lease but we got like a rent free period and there was a period where we kind of, we got a bit of rent free and we got a discounted rental period on the condition that we were putting planning in for this use that we were going to get it approved and there was a break if we, if we couldn't get it approved after a year. I think it's a year and a Half, something like that. And we applied for it thinking it should be pretty just sort of sort of slam dunk and it wasn't because like, although there was all this noise from the trains coming through, it just, it meant that basically the, our small amount of noise from slamming container doors or anything like that was kind of like an additional amount of noise that wasn't acceptable for the next door neighbors. It was, it was, it was separate from the, from the railway noise. So it kind of like meant that yeah, we, they'd sort of had enough noise, they couldn't have any more kind of thing, which I couldn't, which I just could not believe as like, you know, we just thought, you know, it's such a light, you know, it's not going to be like people, you know, kind of make, you know, making loads of noise being there all the time, you know.

Yeah.

Using it for sort of, you know, sort of an industrial use, you know, it's just, yeah, these, you can't always win, can you?

I know, I know, I know. So, so fast forwarding to today then Michael, you've got, you've got eight sites and obviously you've built a great business. Can you tell us about how you run the operations of your business? So you know, one of the things I'm particularly always interested in is you know, how do you deal with marketing, how do you get people into kind of, you know, the funnel, how do you deal with the prospects, how do you convert them into a paying customer, how do you manage move in, how do you operate the business from that kind of perspective? Now you talked as well at the start about wanting to get into the kind of unmanned, I think you'd said, online or like that side of things. So with that in mind, where are things now 13 years later?

Yes. So three of our sites we have people on and then the rest of them are unmanned and yeah, we just. The rest of it, yeah, we, we run sort of almost kind of sort of hybrid. You know, someone will go there occasionally and you know, sort of do, do bits and pieces, tidy up. You know, we periodically, we've got someone that goes around and just keep, keeps everything nice and. But I think one of the things actually that I was, I was interested in, I don't know whether you've come across it before. I was just thinking on this was the move outs is, is like you know, when you go, you go, you see, go somewhere you, you go and the guys that go around, they do the cleaning, they, you know, they check the units out that People have gone out of and then you get a call sort of, you know, an hour later once they've left and the, the, you know, there's another unit that is, that's just come empty. It's always like something that I've, I've always, you know, such. That's something that is always, is always one that you think is this a solution for that? It's.

And are you thinking more kind of like once a unit's empty, how do you get it ready as quickly as possible?

Yes, well. Or if you miss, if you've got, you know, your facilities guys that going around and they miss somebody, somebody's just about, you know, move out their unit and it's, they're just a little bit too early. Then they've got to wait till the next time they come for these sort of unmanned sites. But yeah, that's something that we, we're looking at like maybe like bringing in like a, an automated like self checkout process with like where people sort of take photos the unit and then send them through to us and maybe we do like a small like refund or something as a thank you gestures for, for, for taking, you know, taking the time to do that and showing that it's all clean and ready to go. But yeah, like in terms of. Yeah, we, we run it. Yeah, we run with someone there. Yeah, we've got, we've got like a office on site the guys operate from. But yeah, then they can also. Everyone kind of takes the calls between us for the sales so it kind of spreads out. So everybody's available to sort of take the calls sort of max. So we don't sort of get anything that's missed. And yeah, day to day, you know, we kind of like just run hybrid mainly.

Okay. Whenever a customer comes to your website, what's the experience there? Do they fill in a form and wait for a call from one of your staff? Do they call the staff? Can they book online? Can they get a quote? How do you handle that?

Yeah, so we use STORA as you know, we use the online booking platform that comes with that. We use the information screen on there so that people have to put their phone number and email address in when they want to get a price, which then gives us that data to sort of collect and then contact them a later date. They can then see all the pricing and if they want they can book then and there or we can then contact them at a later date, see why they didn't want to book it. Or maybe they want to book it for a bit later on.

So I think we call that gated pricing, where we kind of, yeah, show the pricing, but after they've given the details and then they can book or they can. But also your staff know to, you know, pick up the phone and give them the call. That's the way we refer to that. So once they've, what, like assuming they've booked and they're moving in, say today, what's. What's the process? Do you have a. Do they have some sort of code for the gift? How do you manage that?

Yeah, it's all emailed. It's all emailed through. There's obviously the ID verification that they do and yeah, everything's emailed. If they can they get the information, if they want to purchase a padlock off of us, they can just call us up and we can process that for them and they can just collect them from one of the collection points on site. And if they, they. We also sort of say that people are welcome to use their own, although we do recommend that ones that go in the lockbox. Yeah, but yeah, so we sort of have like four locations on site with like large key safes that the padlocks can stay in and then they can just come and collect them when they turn up.

Can a customer move in without seeing a member of staff, like on a Monday night? And they, they get a code for the gate, they could move in with their own padlock. And what system do you use? I know there are a few different options. What do you use as a smart entry system on the git?

Yes, we use Bare Box and pti. We've got a mixture of both throughout the locations. Yeah, yeah. So customers can move straight in off of, off of, book it online, get an email with. Once they've completed their verification, everything. We get the, the terms and conditions to sign and we send them the gate codes. They're. Each gate code is unique to the customer and the unit number. So, yeah, they can just, just turn and move in.

You also, you really are a container expert, but you also run a business called Quick Fit, which is not the business that you change your tires. It's a container, I think a container accessory business. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about. About that and how that came about?

Yeah, yeah. So we really. It came about through standby a lot mainly because we were looking really at stuff we needed. We sort of had an idea for a few different things that we wanted and we just. Yeah, we couldn't, couldn't really get hold of in sort of like for cameras and lighting and just like splitting up containers and stuff like that. And it kind of, it grew from really us either sort of developing it ourselves and getting it made and then thinking well with yeah, we'll start selling and see how it goes kind of thing. So then thinking like yeah, let's, let's expand on it a bit more and do it, do it as its own, own entity. And then kind of, we just kind of really just rolled from there really and sort of then thought well no one really does parts either and we can, we need some of these as well. So let's just you know, if we don't, if we don't sell it, we use it ourselves. But then it kind of just, just sort of snowballed from there really.

And do you sell mostly to self storage or is it all sorts of industries then you're, you're supplying that to?

Yeah, it's all kinds of industries. I mean we sell like stuff for construction hire all sorts of like different sites, locations, got involved with like you know, government contracts and just everything really. Containers just everywhere aren't they now? It's, yeah, I know.

What's, what's the most exciting or kind of unusual thing you've ever seen with our container? I mean I've been in coffee shop containers and pub containers but I don't know, you must have seen some. I'm sure you've seen some. Interesting.

There was a, there's a bomb proof container that we got involved with a while back that was quite interesting. There's been like, you know, dark kitchens for like, you know, delivery people have built, you know, these kitchens that are just out of containers and then you know they, they then list themselves on delivery and start cooking food out of them. There's like, you know, there's, there's so many uses. It's just crazy, isn't it? Like we've, there's people that built like towers, festivals and stuff for like you know, all kinds of things really. Yeah, it's crazy.

Okay, cool. So if anyone's listening who is in containers wants to find out how can they find out more about Quick Fit? What's the domain name?

How can they.

What's your website?

Yes, it's just quick fit. Containeraccessories.co.uk so thinking about your self storage.

Business again, what would you say if there were three things that you think are the most important things to focus on with a self storage business and that lead to success? What would those three things be?

I'D say probably price pricing and increasing rents is quite important, I think especially well, I think in any, I think in any business. But obviously you know, sort of keeping an eye on like costs and like the increase cost of, of your location where you are. Because like quite often, you know, you think you've got a good, really good sort of income. Everything's set up really well. You've always got to keep an eye on what the rent's going to be at the next, you know, rent increase. If you're, if you're a leaseholder, you're sort of looking at your next rent or obviously like you increase costs of your, of your mortgage repayment if you own a freehold. I think it's always something to bear in mind. And then I think also, yeah, just setting it up properly in the beginning, making sure that you kind of made the provision because quite often you think, oh well, I put a few, a few, few containers in and we start, start small. But then like actually you think afterwards I need to. I really should have just done this all differently in the beginning and just spent a bit more money because of, at the, in the end of it, it is quite like a large capital expense and evil either way. So if you just do it in small pieces or you do it in a larger one, you still got to get it right because of like it's going to be there a long time hopefully. And you know, the more those little things that sometimes you think I'll leave them, I won't do that. In the end it makes a big difference.

So, so, so I heard there. So whenever we talk about pricing, are you thinking about, you talk about customer pricing while you're there? Yeah. And then as well if your, your costs as well. So be very aware of pricing and keep an eye on the customers prices and doing price increases. But also watching your costs. Is that, is that loads of.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, brilliant. Okay, great advice. Have you ever come across some very bizarre things being stored?

Trying to think of what the most bizarre thing is. We had a unit a while back where we cut, cut the padlock off someone we hadn't paid and it was quite, it must have been like. It's quite late in sort of winter really. It's quite dark and my colleague John open the door and just went in. Just as he was going inside the unit, just inside the unit there was like this like big zombie mannequin that was just like hiding behind the door. That was yeah, quite a surprise. But yeah, yeah.

John, react to that.

Yeah. He was a bit surprised about it. Yes, it was. Yeah, it's dark as well. But I think the, the most reassuring thing was that we knew that no one had been in for about you know a good, good like three months or so. So we need like there shouldn't be anybody in there that's actually. Yeah. A license. Yeah. So. Yes, yeah.

If you're gonna find somebody.

Yeah, yeah but and then like I think like. Yeah, I just try to think of like other things that we've had like over the years. Like you know there's sort of every, you know, I think on another occasion we've had like old guns and things like that that people have stored and then the auction commons, you know, kind of had to. Yeah, we've had to just get someone to come and take them away.

What about when you look at the self storage industry? So you obviously know well and you know we would see each other lots of events. So you have your finger on the pulse of what's going on. What, what do you see as latest trends or innovations shaping the, you know, the direction of the, the industry, the self storage industry.

I think there's going to be a lot more people going into it definitely and probably sort of like small sort of, you know, one or two sites sort of guys sort of coming in more unmanned sort of kind of, you know self service definitely is going to be where it goes, isn't it? I think. Yeah, yeah. Do you see that from your perspective as well?

Yeah, well I suppose one of the things I see quite a bit is growth, lots of new facilities opening, you know, as, as more and more people find out about, you know it, it is a good business. It's a, you know, it's a nice strong cash flowing business where there is lots of unmet demand I would say still right across the uk. At the same time I think there are other trends going on. You know there's obvious trend of, you know, more digital digitalization, increasing numbers of operators, letting customers book online and automating their sites so people can move in without necessarily having to see staff. Lots of people have staff as well and lots of our customers have staff sites but they'll also add on that facility for kind of self move ins which I think we've seen more and more of as well. So yeah those are the main trends I see if I look forward five years, who knows like to try and think of it that far ahead but certainly I would say just see more and more, more and more self storage across the uk. One of the Interesting thing you said earlier in the call about the drive up units that are popular in the us. I do hear more and more people looking at that in the UK and I think that is a nice, you know, it's kind of a nice hybrid model, isn't it between indoor and containers. So I think, I think we'll probably see more of that. Do you ever think about where things might be in five years time or if you're some sort of futuristic feature for self storage, what might it be?

I might mention this to you a while back. As I say like we, but we kind of thought that it would be a really cool idea if like when, when the customer puts their pin code in the gate and they've not paid and they're locked out, it should send them a text automatically with a link to pay so that they can just hit that link and just pay what they need to pay to get in. Because of like that, that's always a thing like you know that in the evening, late in the evening, you know, someone might turn up to access the unit and they find they're locked out because they haven't paid and you know, and you get a call from you know, sort of they want to get it all sorted so they can get access and you know. Yeah, so that could be useful.

That's a nice feature actually we were just chatting earlier but text messaging and how to get that into store soon and that'd be a nice, that'd be a very nice way to introduce that because obviously if somebody's at the gate dating a phone or they're going to have their phone probably on them.

Yeah.

So send them a text, they can always pay and that can be done either by the smart entry technology software or else via software like stores. So good idea and I know you've mentioned that before but I'll, I'll write it, I'll put it back into our list and give another bump. So last question, like what do you think? You think for the next five or ten years for standby do you have a. Where do you see the business being then?

We, we still got a quite a large space upstairs upper level sort of containers. We really want to try and push more, get more, more more done more, more rented upstairs and also like you know, if you can get free holds great or sort of long leases I think. Yeah, that's where we were sort of looking at.

One final one, one more final question then. So like you talk about not going far outside your area. What's. So you've Hit sites. How far away from each other are they? Are they within kind of a one hour drive radius or roughly. What's the.

I mean we go from Worthing up to Aylesbury farming sort of distance. So yeah, it's probably about. We're based mainly in Houltum, my sort of central location. This takes about two hours to get to Aylesbury, half an hour to get to Worthing. So it's. Yeah, it's, it's, it's. It's one of those things like I think it, it's just I quite like everything kind of I want, I like to have everything sort of reasonably close by in a way but at the same time time like it just depends what comes up, doesn't it? And you know you can't always. You see a good opportunity but it's just there. I like to keep it all close by now myself but yeah.

Great. Okay.

All right.

Well Michael, thank you so much. So Michael, so from you've got standby self storage and then also quick fit for container accessories. So great to have you on. Yeah, yeah you're real. Really know the industry inside out. So thanks very much. I'll see you soon then Michael. Thanks.

Cheers. Take care.

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