Debbie Carroll - Acrylics, Art Shows and Finding Balance

Hello out there, George Irwin here, also known on Instagram as Western Gallery. I'd like to welcome you to Horizons, a series of talks with people who make, collect, and present artworks that represent the American West. Mostly painting-focused for now, we'll zero in on the people involved with works depicting the Western landscape, cowboys, Native Americans, and wildlife. So saddle up and join me as I venture west. My first guest is Miss Debbie Carroll, a painter of landscapes and wildlife presently residing in Austin, Texas, though perhaps not for long. Debbie came to painting via a long and winding road and is refining her voice as a painter and artist while building her collector base. You can find her work on Instagram as @DebbieCarroll and on the web at www.debbiecarrollfineart.com. Sit in on our talk about finding a way to doing what you love, acrylic paints and art shows. Here's our chat.

Yeah, remodeling and living in the same place at the same time sounds like a challenge.

It's not fun. It's not fun. I don't recommend it. If you don't have to do it, don't. Yeah.

First questions first is like, how did you start painting or how did you get into it?

I had a teacher my senior year in high school, an art teacher, and he took me and two other people kind of under his wing and said, "Hey, you three really need to go to college. You need to study art," and helped us put portfolios together. And, you know, he was really supportive. And I feel like that was a key thing for me going forward. So I went to Northern Illinois University, was just a couple hours away from home. Started out as an art major, but I had that nagging feeling, "Oh, what am I going to do with this?" I even had a teacher through my sophomore year with drawing, and she took me aside and she said, you know, No, I really think you should major in studio art with an emphasis in drawing.

Oh, wow.

I was like, what am I going to do with that? I ended up going into the graphic design direction and ended up in fashion merchandising of all things. Oh, wow. You know, and I say, oh, you use everything you learn and eventually you do.

You do.

So I have used those things that I learned in other areas, but I had a very security route for all of this. Then when I got out of college, I didn't even go into fashion merchandising. I ended up going into travel. I went on a student trip right after I graduated, 7 weeks of travel through several countries. It was so worth it.

I don't regret the whole backpacking thing.

Well, no, we were a little bit more pampered than that. We had a motor coach with about 40 people and we had a guide and I met a lot of people. That's how I ended up in Texas. I met several Texans and they all really, you know how Texans are. They're very proud of Texas. I do. You know, Texas is great, and I really had wanted to move somewhere warm because growing up in the Chicago area, I knew early on I wasn't going to stay there. I couldn't stand the winter.

So you traded the cold for the heat?

Oh yeah, I still don't regret that. I'm good with that. Yeah. When I went on that trip, I took a lot of photos and had it kind of filed away in my mind like, oh, someday I'm going to paint some of these. This is great. But it did take me a very long time. Once I had my kids, I really started feeling that deep need to do something creative. I had stopped working full-time and I had a little bit more time to think about, hmm, what do I want to do next? And we at that point had started going to New Mexico a lot. And so cliché, everybody always says, oh, the light, the scenery, the color.

The light is really like markedly different.

Oh, it is. It is. I mean, that was a huge impact for me as far as wanting to paint. It was one of those things I always knew I wanted to do it, but I didn't even really know if I could do it. And then I signed up for a workshop in Taos. We knew this potter and painter, Stephen Kilburn, and he does these great, real colorful abstract paintings. And I saw, we were in there one day buying pottery that we collected his work, that he was going to do a painting workshop. And I'm like, oh my God, I have to sign up for this. So I had my big, one of my other milestone birthdays and had signed up for the class. And it was really kind of outside my comfort level because it was abstract, it was watercolor, two things I really didn't do. And so I thought, you know what, I've been really wanting to loosen my style, this will be good. So I just went in with an open mind. And the way he does his workshops, he kind of focuses on a subject. And so our subject was Adobe churches.

Okay.

A lot of what he was saying spoke to me as far as simplifying the shapes. I mean, he said, when you do your sketches, don't get every detail, get your shapes, you know, your contrast, and really broke it down. I mean, it was helpful to hear it in and then see it in action. And also, you know, I love the workshop because you don't learn from just the artist teaching it, you learn from all the other people that are in the workshop too.

Right.

The first day I definitely loosened my style, but the first piece that I did, it was the backside of the famous church in Rancho de Taos, everybody paints. And I did the back with flying buttresses and Stephen came around and he looked at my piece and he's like, 'Is this the way you usually paint?' And I was like, 'No, not really.' I said, 'I'm trying to loosen my style.' And I said, 'I love what you're telling us, but I can't make myself do straight lines.' I mean, with that subject and the curves, I just kept wanting to do more of a curved, soft shapes. He said, 'You know what? It's working, just go with it.' So mine ended up looking different from everybody else's because they were all trying to do exactly what he was doing, and I was doing something a little bit different. Yeah, but it really was a definite jumping off point. I mean, that was a definite turn in the right direction.

You got kind of immersed in it then, I guess, for, you know, however long that workshop was.

Yes. Well, it was a whole week and we would go out and sketch in the morning and then come back and paint for the rest of the day. And so, I mean, we were getting 2 11 by 15 paintings done a day, which that was also good for me because I would get hung up before on just, you know, overworking, reworking.

When is the painting finished, right?

Yes, yes. When is it finished? And sometimes, I mean, I think we all as painters all do that. You know, I have a lot of friends who paint and will say, oh my God, I have to stop before I ruin this. So I always laugh when I see people post things on Instagram and they'll make that comment because I get it.

Yeah. Well, that's quite a route to becoming a painter, but you know, it doesn't sound like a terribly uncommon one. Everybody seems to, you know, wander around a lot and then end up, if it's their thing, they'll find it.

Absolutely.

I'm trying it out myself, actually.

Oh, I know.

Do you really?

In a long time, yeah.

Oh, well, when are you going to post some of your work?

Maybe when I finish something.

Okay, so you know what I'm talking about. I do, I do.

Yeah, for now I'm just kind of exploring and, you know, doing experience.

What medium?

Acrylic right now.

You know, it's funny, I think acrylic is one of the hardest ones.

Why is that?

Well, it's, you know, the qualities of acrylic, it's great because it dries fast, but it's hard because it dries fast.

That's what I keep That's what I'm frustrated with, is that it dries so quickly.

You know, you might try the watercolor. One of the things I did in that workshop that was different was before, previously, I always did the pan watercolor. And the tube watercolor, I just treated it like how I treat my acrylics. And I use as much as I wanted, dilute as much as I want, or even maybe lay it on a little bit thick at times. But I found it to be a lot more forgiving. And you could lift areas if you wanted. You know, you could really rework quite a bit if you wanted to. So I tell people, if you're starting out, it's not a bad way to go. Is that okay?

So I'm curious about what is the difference between watercolor, like tube watercolor, and like gouache or gouache or gouache?

You know, I think the gouache is basically more opaque, whereas you get that prettier transparencies with the watercolor pigment.

Yeah, I just, I've never played with that, or the mediums, like it's either gouache or watercolor, but sometimes they look very similar and I think they're made of similar, you know, material. Interesting. What is your painting practice like? Can you talk through like a process of making a painting a little bit?

Sure.

Where do you start?

Well, what I like to do is when we travel around or just when I'm out and about, if I see something that's inspiring, I'll try to snap an image. I'm really using my iPhone camera a lot because I don't always have the luxury of going and sketching. I really need to be doing that more, but the reality is with being busy with a lot of stuff right now, um, that's the easiest thing for me. So I mean, you'll laugh, even on a car trip, I'm out, like, I see cool little interesting roads leading off and I'll get my camera out and start just trying to get a picture. Or if I can get my husband to stop the car, I'll get out and take pictures.

You're just like hanging out the window. Snapping.

Oh yeah, I mean, it's, it's crazy. But then what I do is I'll always take my photos to a sketch because, you know, sometimes there's things in the photo that I don't want, or I have an idea of how to make the composition a little better. And I like to have that level of separation between working from a photo to working with a sketch. I just feel like it's, it's better. And I refer to the photo, but you know, sometimes they change colors. Mix things up a bit, add things, delete things, but it's a good jumping off point. And, you know, like recently I did a little painting that was of a garage of all things, but I modified a few things and I liked how it turned out because I think, you know, you have to realize as an artist, and that was one of the things I liked about seeing the art in New Mexico, it's the interpretation of the artist that really gets me excited about a piece. I appreciate realism, but if It's really the more interpretive pieces that reach out and grab me. So that's really what I want to try to do when I'm working on my own pieces. And I really do like to build on the color. A lot of my pieces are gessoed with black underneath, or I've started using a vermilion and I really like that, especially if I'm doing something with a lot of red rock that just really lends itself to the finished piece.

But— So like an opaque vermilion, or is it more like a wash? It's opaque.

Oh, wow. With the acrylics, I usually go opaque. I say that not always. Sometimes I'll go with like a transparent wash of color, but generally speaking, it's opaque. So I really have to build up those layers of acrylic because on the black gesso, especially the black, just sort of absorbs the color. So I really have to build up layers, sure, and layers of paint to make it really saturated looking. But I like the black because Just a solid black gesso on the bottom. Well, it's something I picked up actually at one of the workshops. There was a painter there and I liked the graphic quality it gave because she would let some of the black show, and I've always liked letting some of the underpainting show through. A lot of people do that, and I think it's really an effective use of color. I mean, so, you know, sometimes I'll leave a little bit of the black. A lot of times I'll paint over that as well. And then, I mean, if you really hate a part of the painting, you can just paint it out with the black gesso and start over. So it's, it's kind of handy in that respect. I mean, it's very forgiving. So I like that aspect of it. And sometimes I might not even have a real solid covering over the black. I like the effect it brings with layering a little bit of color over. So, so it's just another tool in the box. Yeah, I do like to use outlining Sometimes I'll use that as a way of shapes that I've just sort of blocked in pretty loosely. I can start defining with a little bit of line. I definitely like to play with the graphic element in every finished piece.

Do you do a whole drawing before you start?

I like to take like a yellow ochre and just paint in my sketch very loosely. I'm, I'm, I think I'm a little bit of a lazy painter in some respects. I mean, I could sit there and draw it in and be a lot more exact. Exact, but trying to get away from being a tight painter and really focusing on staying loose, that helps me. I've been doing a lot of pet portrait commissions, for instance, and the people that come to me, I always make sure they know that, hey, this is not going to be an exact replica of your photo, it's going to be my interpretation. And I mean, they're, they're coming to me because they like that.

So, right, Karen, you talk about your style being kind of loose, and it is visibly like loose and whimsical. Did that come from when you started first loosening up at that shop? Did you keep that same style or did you bring it back in? Or how did you get to this point of view that you have? Because it's like your voice is becoming clear.

That's great to hear. And that's really what I'm trying to do is really keep honing my skills and just keep bringing it up a notch and challenging myself. My son actually made a really interesting observation one day because he was looking at my work. It was the church piece I did, Adobe Church, and I hadn't done one in a while. And he said, you know, The difference between your early pieces and the pieces you're doing now is when you first started doing them, they were pretty stripped down, not a lot of detail. And as I paint, I have added more detail in over time. I wouldn't say it's realistic by any stretch of the imagination, but—

Sure.

A little bit more structure and definition. I still try to keep simple shapes and just really work on making the detail mean something in the finished piece.

Yeah, some of your paintings seem like they have a significant amount of detail. Like I'm thinking of some of your floral work, especially. Those are really nice. There's a really graphic quality to a lot of your work. And is that informed by your work as a graphic designer?

Well, yes, I do think that having that kind of background and training definitely— and I think with the drawing too— lends itself to that graphic approach. I think that's part of why I do it the way I do it.

All right, stop the record. Please allow me to interrupt for a minute here. Debbie and I had a couple technical problems with our connection, and while we'll get back to our talk in just a minute, I'd like to take this opportunity to check in with you about the podcast. If you dig it, please leave a review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts and share it with your friends. If you have some ideas about how it could be better, please email or DM @westerngallery via Instagram. I'm all ears. Okay, let's jump back in. When the recording cut out, I was asking Debbie about taking her work to art shows and selling prints of her work versus originals, so we'll pick up there.

You know, for a while I was kind of on the fence about doing prints and giclees, but you know, for some of these events it's, it's good to have an option so that if they really want to own something of your work, they can have that option. I look at it as a way of people who like my art, but maybe paintings aren't in their budget. It's a way for them to have something in their home. It really, you know, I feel like as an artist, um, it does seem a little bit commercial as far as fine art. However, you know, recently I was contacted by somebody who bought a set of cards from me 10 years ago Wow. She wanted to have some prints. And I mean, somebody like that, eventually they're going to buy a piece, right? An original piece. They're going to say, I want to have an original piece. Of course, my preference is always to sell originals and focus my time on that.

I mean, I agree that there's definitely a good entry point in printed materials for people that can't afford originals. There's a much wider audience of people who might be interested in your work in that realm, I believe, than original buyers, even though, you know, the impact is much different. In a printed piece versus the real.

Yes, I mean, I always encourage people when I do these shows to come and see my work in person because I really don't think photos or even images on Instagram, Facebook, it's not the same as seeing work in person.

The physical, the physical work is its own. It can be like a special encounter with it, you know.

Well, and then it's funny because last year I did a show in Fredericksburg and part of the challenge for that So the space was a beautiful space with really tall walls. And so it was decided that for this particular show, I would do large pieces. And for a few years, people kept asking, "Hey, do you do large pieces?" And I'd say, "Well, I can," but I didn't really have anything really large to show anybody. So, you know, here again, I'm like, "Oh yeah, I can do that." So oddly enough, it turns out I love working large. I would work large a whole lot more you know, if I had some place to put them. We're trying to move, and that's part of the whole thing, um, with the move. I'm hoping to have a larger studio space, and that'll allow me to do some things I've been wanting to do. But one of the things that I learned about having these large pieces was people were telling me, oh my gosh, when I see this piece, it really just draws me into the scene. They felt like they could walk into the scene, and I thought, wow, that's really a great thing for me to hear, you know, and very encouraging that they could relate to it, you know, in that way.

That's great. So do you do a lot of shows? When did you decide to take your work to a show for the first time, and what was that like for you?

Okay, so I had been doing jewelry, and which is completely— and I did a lot of shows with that. I did local art shows, some junior league shows that were, you know, the big 200 to 300 people selling their work, including people that do fine art. So I had some experience doing shows already. However, I will say this, selling jewelry and selling art is completely different because people can always justify buying jewelry for a gift, you know, and it's a lot less of a price point too, of course.

Right.

So I did have some experience with that. So what I did was I did a show out in Round Top that was kind of a folk art show, and I was accepted with my jewelry and asked if I could show the artwork, and I did. So that was a way of getting some feedback on it. And I think it was the second time I did one like that, a woman out of Dallas, she had a place she was opening in Bandera, a kind of a gallery gift shop, and she blew through and she's like, "Oh, I like your stuff. I wanna put it in my shop." So pretty early on, I had some interest, you know, in kind of a gallery setting. So that was very exciting. But I think for me, the first really big show I did with just the art was the Weems Show in Albuquerque, which went on for years. Somebody that, seen my work on Etsy of all places said, "Hey, I do the show. I think your stuff would be great. You should try to do the show." So I applied to the show and I didn't even know, I mean, this was how much of a newbie I was with some of the art shows. Their deadline had already passed and I had just sent in the stuff and then—

Oh, wow.

Like a week later, they called, I think they called me and they said, "Hey, we really liked your work and we put you at the top of our waitlist." list. So if something comes open, you know, we'd like for you to do the show. And then a couple days later, they had a cancellation. So I ended up packing up and driving to Albuquerque and doing the show. And thank goodness the man next to me, Steve Hunziker, he was— has been in the business for years. He's a painter. He really kind of took me under his wing and he gave me all sorts of very good advice and information. So it was a really good experience. In fact, I also met another painter who I am now friends with and we've gone and painted together. So yeah, I always encourage people that want to get into painting and to not just pursue getting into galleries. Doing some shows can be very beneficial. They're a lot of work.

Right.

You know, getting your work in front of just the general public can be pretty daunting at times. I mean, because not everybody will like what they see and people are pretty free with their commentary, good and bad. But it's good because if you're going to be in this business, you have to be able to hear hear the bad stuff too, or the, you know, the critiques and maybe the things you don't want to hear. Sure. But it's all part of the growing process. Well, yeah.

And then you learn to filter through kind of what criticism you want to take and what you don't.

Sometimes, I mean, I've been told certain things. For instance, I was at a show last March in Albuquerque and a painter friend of mine came through and he knows his stuff. And there was a piece, it was the piece you posted actually. The chamisa, and he looked at that and he said, "Wow, you know, that just doesn't look finished to me." And I said, "Oh, well, I like it." After he left, I thought, "Well, gee, do I need to go back and do more?" And I'm like, "No, that's the finished piece. I like it. I'm not going to listen to that." And I was staying with my painter friend, and I said, "Hey, you know, this was something that he said. What do you think?" And she's like, "Don't listen to him!" You know, so I mean, it's that thing. Everything's subjective, you know, like one person can come through and say, "Oh, I don't like blah, blah, blah. And the next person comes through and they say, oh, I really love how you did XYZ.

So yeah, people love and really dislike the same exact thing.

Yeah, it's interesting. It really is.

But it's also fun, you know, it's fun and worthwhile to hear things that resonate with a number of people, right? Yes. And then you can kind of—

you used the word whimsical earlier, and it's funny because, okay, so when I first started showing my work, that was a word that popped up right off the bat. And I've decided, you know, you have to embrace it. I mean, obviously that is the way people describe my work. And I do, I do see that it has a whimsical quality because it's not super realistic. And, you know, I like to use that skewed perspective that just kind of puts you a little bit off balance, you know. And yeah, I've had a lot of people ask me about that, like, why do you sort of have that off-balance perspective? And I said, that's just the way I like to to add a little interest.

Yeah.

And, and I feel like it sort of creates movement and gives people sort of an entry path to the piece.

Yeah. So I would agree with that.

I mean, because you use that word and I was like, okay, I'm going to talk about that a little bit.

No, I'm glad that you did. I said it and I think that it's a positive quality to your work, you know, like something that is whimsical is, you know, I think of as being fun, right? And fun is always approachable.

Yes, yes.

You know, I'd rather surround myself with things that are upbeat and happy than things that, you know, maybe there's space for some think pieces, but for the most part, what you have around you will influence, I think, your life on a day-to-day basis. You live with a painting, right? If it's in your house. So I like to keep bright, happy things on my walls.

Absolutely. I do too. I mean, I do agree with that. You need to surround yourself with things that you love. And happy is another descriptive word I've had too. People will also say, oh, that makes me happy. And, and I like to hear that because, you know, life's too short. You need to make yourself as happy as you can be.

I agree.

And use any means to do so.

Who are some of your influences?

Well, of course, that whole Tao School of Painters. I love that whole group. In particular, Maynard Dixon. I noticed you posted A lot of his, I love, love his work. There's a piece at the Panhandle Plains Museum in Amarillo. They have a pretty incredible collection of art there, and Georgia O'Keeffe used to teach at that school back before it was the Texas A&M School.

Oh wow, which—

It was, I think it was called West Texas before it was West Texas A&M.

Okay, so West Texas A&M, sorry, I Cut out just a little bit. I didn't catch what the school name was. And it's over— is that up in Canyon?

That's why you see some, some of my Palo Duro paintings, because that was a gem to discover. Oh my gosh, there are some cabins there, and I'm dying to go and stay there for like a long weekend and just paint. I'm gonna do it because it's, it's beautiful. They say it's the second largest canyon next to the Grand Canyon. But, um, but yeah, Maynard Dixon, he is a favorite of mine. Um, and Denton and, um, oh yeah, Ufer, there's all of those. I just— Victor Higgins, the work is just amazing. And then of course there are a ton of more current painters that I just love. I really love the work of Louisa McElwain, who's no longer with us, Oh my goodness, yeah, her work is great. Really speaks to me. And so Jeevan, I'm never sure if I'm pronouncing his name right, Jeevan Lee, he's up in Taos and he does those huge pieces that are very expressive. Yeah, love his work, love his work. And then, um, we were in Taos last fall and we went into a little gallery there and that's, um, we'd seen his work I think in Southwest Art Magazine, but she had his work there along with Jeff Cochran who does lovely landscapes as well, and it was really fun to see those pieces in person. And then John Moyers is another gentleman that I've loved his work for quite a while, and he's got a graphic style. It's— I find myself drawn to the graphic things, you know, like Logan Maxwell Heggie. Is that how you say his last name?

Heggie.

Okay, we love his work as well. And Brett, Brett Allen Johnson, his work is fabulous. So there's a lot of really talented people out there, and sometimes I'm amazed that they're not as well known as you would think. It's, it's interesting to me.

It is.

The Western art world in the West United States sense of the word, it does seem like there's kind of like a small community of artists and then collectors and publishers. And, you know, within the grand art world, it's, uh, seems much more smaller and personal to me.

Oh, and another artist I love, Howard Post. I love Howard Post's work too. Yeah, I could probably think of a million that I just love, but his work is— it really to me looks like that Tao style. It really speaks to me too.

As an artist, do you have a favorite brush or a secret weapon?

Well, I like those flat brushes, I guess 3/4 inch. I use that a ton because you can get kind of a wash and you can get a straight edge with it. And I do find myself using just a handful of the same brushes over and over again, even though I've got a million brushes. Yeah, I don't really use the round ones very much, although after dabbling in oil, I recently went on a very, very wonderful trip to the Abiquiú area. Oh yeah. With a friend of mine. We went to Ghost Ranch for an afternoon, and then we had a place that she, she knows somebody with a home that's ideally situated, and we stayed there and we never left. She kept saying, oh, we could go paint this and that, but there were so many views, we just stayed there because it was a short time. So it was nice to just get as much painting done. Yeah. I think all we did was eat, sleep, paint, and then drink a little wine.

Yeah. Sounds like a good, a good trip.

It was a good trip. And you know, it was a good chance chance to sort of— I did some acrylics because that's what I usually work in, but I did want to try my hand at the oils, and I found I really like them. So I will be doing more of those. But, you know, you do have that drying time to wait for. I'm a little bit impatient, so that, that's the downside to me.

Gotcha.

It would be, you know, when I have space and I can work on several things at once, that would be ideal.

Yeah, that seems kind of like maybe a solution for working in oils, to be able to go from one thing to the next.

Yes. Yeah.

So you were talking before about how it can be a lot of work to take all your stuff to shows and the whole practical side of things. How do you balance that with making time to just be creative?

It's definitely a balance because I do actually do a little part-time work too for an interior designer, which it's nice because I feel like that sort of ties in with my love of design and color.

Yeah.

And that's super flexible. So that's worked out great for me, you know, if I need to say, "Hey, I'm leaving for a week to go do a show," I can do it. But yeah, I try to block out time so that I know there's days that I can just paint. I do work out of my home, and it's a challenge because you have a lot more interruptions. That was the thing that I noticed going on that painting trip where you could just focus. It was really wonderful to immerse, you know, just to be able to be immersed in it without any distractions. I do try to block out time, but it is, it is a balance. I mean, Like right now we're doing remodeling, so I mean, I might have to stop and clear out a room, and I already had to move my painting area once, and I'll have to do that again, and eventually find some outside studio space for an indefinite amount of time because we're putting our house on the market. We don't know where we're moving to yet.

Yeah, I remember you, you mentioned that before. You were talking about potentially moving west.

Were you thinking like over there near Palo Duro, or, uh, well, I mean, my husband said You know, hey, we could consider the Panhandle, maybe go grow grapes. But, and I like the wide open spaces. We recently went down to Alpine, Texas, Marfa, right in there. Oh, nice. Yeah. And I really fell in love with Alpine and Fort Davis. It's beautiful. And it really spoke to me as far as, you know, doing landscapes. I love to do clouds and the skies there are amazing. So I have Actually, I have from that trip, it kind of spawned an idea for a show. We stayed at the Indian Lodge in Fort Davis, and I have had my work out at a little gallery/shop in Johnson City called Echo, and she features art and has had a couple, some major shows there out there in Johnson City, and she had seen the pictures I had taken of the Indian Lodge, which is just such a gem. They renovated it, they painted it white, so it's like a little pearl mural that sits there in Fort Davis in the park. And the light on the building, you know, was incredible. So she saw the photos and she said, hey, how about doing a show, a white show where all the subjects are white? And I thought, okay. And white is an interesting color because it isn't just white, you know. Right, it never is, right? Right. If you're going to paint white, you, if you want it to look interesting, or have any depth, you have to add other colors to it. I mean, if you look at snow, you see blue, you see purple, you see other colors. So I thought, you know, this really could be interesting. So that's slated for the end of January to do this white show. So I'm pretty excited about that. I think it's going to be yet another challenge. And I already have plenty of subjects that I want to choose from for that one. So So that's going to be fun.

But you haven't started painting that one yet?

Um, I've started yesterday. So yeah, I really need to get to work.

Nothing like a deadline, huh?

You know, I am one of those people that I work best on a deadline, sadly.

Oh, I think, yeah, it's very motivating.

It is. When I had the show last year in September, I really I really didn't get going on that until probably June, and it was a little bit scary because I was doing these big pieces and I wasn't even sure how long that would take. But I mean, I think it was nice for me because I'd say, hey, I really have to immerse myself in this and block out the time and just say, this is what I'm doing, don't give me anything else. So it'll be good. We do have the holidays in there, but you know, you have to balance things around your personal life too. I've started recently reading The Artist's Way. I'm recommending it to a lot of friends because I think it really helps you focus on what's important to you as an artist and how you use your time.

It really is. It's, it's a very powerful book. When I first read it, or I didn't even finish it actually.

I haven't yet either.

Yeah, but I ended up moving from Austin to ultimately to Nashville to write Country's Oh, you did?

Oh, wow.

And I did that for a while. And then after we had our first kid, we decided to move back to be close to our parents. And also, playing music in the house is not really conducive to baby sleeping. So that's when I found— I kind of rekindled my interest in visual art.

Well, you'll, you'll come back to the, the songs and the music. I mean, I think things always come back full circle, you know. I wish I was musically talented. The one thing I haven't been doing, I do the morning pages pretty religiously, but I haven't been doing the Artist's Date. But I see the value in it. There is value in it because you do, you have to refill the well as they say, and they even say the busier you are, the more you should do it. So that's a goal for me, even though this, it's going to be a crazy couple of months with all these events and the show coming up. I'm going to try to make time for that. Refill the well.

Yeah, I mean, in addition to like, you know, finding the inspiration, it gives you time alone to actually think about like what you want to do, you know, with your inspiration. That's great.

Yeah, I think people don't always realize how much time is spent just thinking about a project before you even do any hands-on, you know, just sort of formulating your ideas and letting them go off in different directions. You know, sometimes you have an idea or a germ of an idea, but it takes that whole thought process to let it really fully formulate.

Yeah, I mean, I like to think about things sometimes in the 80/20 rule.

Oh yeah.

Almost, you know, 80% preparation, 20% execution. Well, sometimes works out well. Sometimes for me it turns into too much preparation and not enough execution. But anyway. There's definitely a lot of work in deciding what to paint or what your creative project is going to be and how to do it.

Well, and that's— I have another friend, we often talk about, people will say to us, "Oh, isn't it hard to come up with ideas of what you want to paint?" And it's really the opposite is true. You sometimes have so many ideas, it's almost paralyzing. I'm trying to decide, "Oh, well, you know, gee, I could do this, but what if I did this?" And then one idea takes direction. So So that is not a problem. It's sometimes having too many ideas is actually a problem, as crazy as that sounds.

No, I mean, then you have to edit it. And you know what, I think, you know, you're talking about your process a little bit. Probably when you start moving things from photos to sketches, you start to be able to filter through things a little better. And then you've already got some momentum going with some things, and maybe it's easier to pick a direction.

Even with this Indian Lodge portion of the White Show that I'm working on right now. I focused in on a particular image that was my favorite. So I thought, I'll start with this and I'm doing just a small study first. I want to kind of play with this and see how I like it before I commit because I want to do a larger anchor piece for the show. And now that I have it painted in, blocked in, the window to me is losing its impact. So now I'm like, okay, maybe I need to crop in and really play this aspect up more, you know. So it's— I think doing these studies, I decided on this particular show I wanted to do the studies first and then jump to the larger pieces and just see where that process takes me, because I don't usually do that. And I thought, well, and I need some small pieces for the Blue Genie show. So, you know, I said, okay, let's sell the studies at the Blue Genie. That's good. So, you know, use everything. That, that's another one of my mottos. Especially if you have limited time and you're trying to do that work-life.

Yes.

You know, if you can use everything at your disposal, why not?

Yeah. I guess if you have maybe one piece of advice for somebody who is getting into painting, what would that be?

Well, I think not to be afraid to be willing to make mistakes and experiment. And, you know, I don't take as much time to experiment as as I would like, and that's something I'm trying to do because sometimes through experimentation you discover another direction that maybe you wouldn't have gone in. And so I do feel like it's very, very important, experimentation.

All right.

And also getting your work out there. If nobody can see it, sure, then nobody's gonna ever want to buy it.

So that's, that's the truth.

Well, great.

Thank you so much, Debbie. I'm, um, also before we go, I wanted to ask you real quick to summarize, I know you have the, uh, the white show that you're talking about in January, and where— what gallery was that at again, or what, what's boutique or whatever?

Um, it's at Echo.

Echo.

Echo in Johnson City.

Maybe I can convince the family to let me go down to Austin.

Oh, you should! That would be fun. That would be fun. Yeah, and, um, I'd love to come check it out. And I did just find out last night I'm a finalist in the William Criss Winery wine label competition. All right, congrats. I was— I did it last year. I was one of the finalists. It was a lot of fun, a lot of fun. It's a beautiful winery. They have excellent wine, so I always encourage people to go check that out. And, and I am supposed to be hanging work there in December in their members area, getting the work out there.

All right, well, Debbie, thank you so much for, uh, chatting today.

And, uh, thanks, George.

I am excited to, uh, come see your work in Austin or elsewhere.

Yes, I would love that. So it was nice to finally meet in person, sort of.

Yeah, it's great to talk in real time.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, well, thanks for the opportunity.

Yeah, sure thing.

Thanks for chatting. All right, bye-bye. Bye-bye.

So there you go. Thank you for listening, and another big thanks to Debbie for taking the time to talk. You can find her work on Instagram as @debbiecarroll with two 2 Rs, 2 Ls, and on the web at www.debicarrollfineart.com. Once again, if you like the show, please leave a review or share an episode with your friend, or email me notes or suggestions directly at info@western.gallery or via Instagram direct message @westerngallery. Horizons is produced by Western Gallery for the love of Western art and artists of all genres. Music in this episode is by The Georgian Company, who you can find on iTunes and Spotify courtesy of Pants of Fate Records. Thanks again and tune in next time for a conversation with artist Luke Anderson.