Georges Niang on The Utah Jazz and How He Battled His Way Into The Rotation | Duncan Robinson

Hello and welcome to another conversation here on the Long Shot Podcast. Notice how I call it a conversation, not an interview. Uh, here with, uh, both of our, our good friends, uh, Georges Niang, who is a 2-time first-team All-Big 12, 2-time NCAA All-American, 2016 Karl Malone Award winner. That's the best power forward in the country, folks. 2018 First Team All-NBA G League, current member of the red-hot Utah Jazz, who we also play this week, and of course, an Ames, Iowa legend.

Legend.

Welcome to the Long Shot Pod, Georges Niang.

Wow. I mean, you guys know how uncomfortable that gets me, but you know what I mean? Thank you. Maybe you could mention of how many beers I used to drink at the local pub. In Ames, Iowa, but maybe next time.

Yeah, we could save that one for another episode. But no, we do like to give all of our guests, you know, a resounding intro. But, you know, those are all things that you accomplished, so you deserve to hear it read back to you. You really do.

Thanks, brother. I appreciate that. I appreciate you guys having me on. I've heard nothing but great things about the Long Shot Podcast.

No, I appreciate that. So, for the listeners, Georges and I actually grew up in the same area. the Northeast. He was kind of North Shore Boston, the pride of Methuen, Mass., if you will. And I had the privilege of watching him absolutely dominate high school basketball, AAU, prep school, didn't matter. Then to go on and be criminally under-recruited. Then I watched him dominate college basketball. You know, we had a friendship, so I closely followed his career. And then once again, You know, hearing about how it was not translatable to the next level. And my question to really just open this up for you, Georges, is how has this constant lack of notoriety shaped your habits first and foremost, but ultimately shaped your career?

That's a, that's a real good question, to be honest with you. Usually I just try and deflect and joke around about it, but I think the biggest thing that stands out to me is I've always loved the game of basketball. I'm sure, you know, I mean, me and you think a lot alike and you feel the same way. But the one thing I could never stomach was like just quitting. Like someone could be like, hey, I got 500 shots up tonight. And in college I'd be like, well, shoot. Like I can't stomach like knowing that that person like got better while I was like hanging out at the house. So I just, no matter like what anybody said to me or what anybody said about me, whether it was negative or positive. Like, I just never quit. Like, it could be like, hey, you're not going to be good enough at the next level, you're not going to be fast enough. And I always took that, um, just as motivation for me to work more. And I think it goes for successful people in the world, is, you know, half of the world can't even show up, never mind show up and work hard.

Yeah.

So, that's the 2 things that I just told myself that like, if you just want to give yourself a chance, like at the end of the day, like at the end of my basketball career, I just want to be able to sit back and know that like, hey, I did what I love to do, but I literally have no regrets. Like I put my all into it. And it's funny that, you know, you mentioned like the turning point of that, but it honestly goes back to when we were growing up. Like we talked about it earlier on the phone where literally our days in the summer would Monday through Saturday would start at like 9:00 AM. and we'd go work out, um, even with little kids. Like, it was like we were, we were literally like 16, 17 years old and they were like 9 and 10-year-olds working out on the other end. And like, it was Integrity Hoops and we were there from like 9 to like 11:30. And like, whether it was working on ball handling, play on 3-on-3, no dribble, and then literally it'd be like 2 o'clock, then we'd go to Dover High School and the same thing would happen from 2 o'clock till like 4:30, we'd be working out. Then at night, we'd have like a session at like from 8 to like 9:30 at Berwick Academy. And it just was like, it never was work. And whenever you tell people about it, they're like, 3 times a day? Like, that's kind of crazy. But I know because we've had conversations about it, it's just like, we just love to hoop. Like, there was nothing— we didn't want to play video games, we didn't want to go hang out at Hampton Beach. Like, we would just rather just hoop all day. smell, stink, like wear the same sweaty t-shirt for the first session, let it dry the second and wear it the third. Like it was just something that we love to do. And I just think through our journeys, like we've never quit and we've never lost the love for the game, no matter how ugly it gets. Yeah.

I mean, first off, there was always a yoga session mixed in there as well. Um, disappointed that you forgot that. Um, but, but you said it and that paints such a funny picture. Because like looking back, right, you said it exactly. We were in the gym with middle schoolers, elementary school kids, doing the exact same drills, going through all the same things. If at that point you had told like a bystander, 2 people in here are gonna play in the NBA, it just would have been like the most laughable thing ever.

Yeah.

But I was always impressed because like I wasn't a heralded high school player, But at that point, you were. Like, you were playing BABC, you had offers, and you were still— I was just always impressed by the fact that you would humble yourself and understand that this was actually what was getting you better, is doing these things. Because— and it really all comes back to Noah LaRoche, who ran Integrity Hoops and is now, you know— Yeah, shout out to Noah LaRoche. Yeah, one of the, if not the best, you know, trainer In basketball, but he was doing this stuff with not only us, but little kids as well. And we would go through it every day. Like you said, it was just about the habits of continuing to show up.

Yeah. I think people get confused. Like, when you think of— when someone's like, how can I be an NBA player? Like, they think they have to go search out this like trainer from like San Francisco or LA. But the more that I think back on like our journeys, and it's not like we're like perennial, like, all-stars, but I mean, like, we have played meaningful minutes in NBA games. I think it's just like the more, like, consistent, simple days you have of just, like, stacking consistent days of work, whether if it's a one-dribble pull-up or just learning how to read a defense or playing 3-on-3 with, like, a 2-dribble limit, like, the more that you do that, the more, like, you gain skill, you gain confidence. And then when it comes out to being in the game, it's like— I've done this for countless hours over and over and over again. And people think there's like this magic trick or magic trainer, and they're out here on the internet like browsing Instagram thinking like, I need to find this special person, this will get— but it's like, no, like just like anything else, like it's hours and hours of hard work. And like I tell people this, like successful people in the world have one thing over another person, and that's just grit.

Yeah.

Like I just refuse I refuse to give up. And, and I think that's the one thing where people get confused is they're like, well, everything has to go right. And yeah, like I tell people, I wouldn't want to do my journey over again because I know there's some luck that goes into it and I like wouldn't want to mess anything up. But I think if you show up every day and stack consistent days, like you're eventually going to get better. And from there on out, like whatever's going to happen is meant to happen. I don't think there's any secret formula or philosophy that makes you an NBA player. But I do agree, if you told people 10 years ago that we were gonna be NBA players, they would have been like, these 2 kids? That fat kid over there? And then that tall, lanky, skinny kid? I don't know.

Georges, I'm so glad you say that because Duncan and I have, this isn't an official slogan of the podcast, but we keep bringing up brick by brick. And that's exactly what you're talking about, which I think is beautiful. I need to ask about those workouts. Because like Duncan kind of alluded to, it was probably easier for him to imagine you at this level back then. But be honest, did you ever think that Duncan had a chance to play in the NBA? Like even—

Keep it a buck, keep it real.

Oh no, I'll, I'll keep it real. Like I will keep it so real. So Noah, you know, Noah's your biggest fan. So Noah would always say stuff like, Duncan can really shoot. He's going to be an NBA player one day. And you know me, like my cocky attitude. I'm like, man, get the fuck out of here. Like he's at Phillips Exeter. Like, you know what I mean? Because like, you know, you think you know what, what like an NBA player looks like. But at that time, like I didn't even know like what, you know what I mean? What I was looking for at that point.

Yeah.

And then, uh, you know, he's, he'd always like mention it and this and that. And you know, I was trying to transition myself into like a shooter or like a dynamic big, 'cause you start growing out of like the being able to play down low. And I'm like, no, like no way, like I can shoot it better, like this, that, and the other, da da da. And then what really turned my head was the year, my freshman year at Iowa State, he was, you were at Phillips Exeter and they were streaming Tilton, my old high school, against Phillips Exeter, and you beat us at Tilton. And that's when I was like, dang, like, he's only going to Williams? Like, he like looks like someone like I could imagine myself at Iowa State like passing the ball to, right? So then I'm like, all right. And you know, you kind of like somewhat think of it and like, ah, maybe, uh, but you know, obviously I'm not spending my whole day thinking about Duncan Robinson. So it'd be like, it'd be like a couple days here and there. And then, you know, obviously I'm sure with this podcast people know your accolades and what you did at Williams. And I remember reaching out to you when you said that you were transferring and I was like, hey, like, what do you think about this? And I honest to God truth, if I could find the text, I texted Coach Hoiberg and I'm like, hey, like, I grew up with this kid. He could really shoot it like 90-50-40, like your type of, you know, shooters like love hearing that.

Yeah.

Like, so Fred Hoiberg was like, oh, He was like, you think you'll take a walk-on spot? And I was like, coach, I was like, this ain't, this ain't one of those like type of friendly, like, hey, hey, come on, buddy, like, come. And then I told him next time, like, he just took a scholarship to Michigan. He's like, well, pal, I'm sure we'll find another one.

I, uh, I thought about Iowa State. Like you said, I don't think you guys had any scholarships. Um, I appreciate the honesty. I will say, at that point, there was just no way that anybody thought I would be an NBA player, let alone, like, a decent college player. So, uh, but like I said—

I mean, but you had your ups and downs in college. Like, there were times where you were like— For sure.

Absolutely. No, no, no. I, uh— I mean, even when I was finishing up at Michigan, I mean, I think this is pretty well-documented at this point, but, like, I was the furthest thing from a surefire NBA player. Um, but that kinda actually ties into What I wanted to ask you about, about your career in terms of the trajectory of getting from college to the NBA. As you know, you dominate college. Honestly, you're a 2-time All-American, 2,000 points. Like we said earlier, Ames, Iowa legend. Um, and then all of a sudden it becomes, you know, you hear the same stuff you've been hearing the whole time. You're not athletic enough. You don't have a position. You know, what— where's he gonna play? Who's he gonna guard? All like the cookie-cutter responses that everybody says all the time.

Yeah.

How, how is it that you then have like the self-awareness to realize I need to entirely reinvent my game? Because if you watch your highlights now of what you do night in and night out for the Jazz, it is a far cry from what you were doing at Iowa State.

Absolutely.

So how did— how is that process in that like, obviously you have to have— maybe it's people in your corner, or maybe it's just you being real with yourself. I'm sure it's a combination of, of the two.

Yeah. I think another thing is you got to be self-aware. You got to know your limitations or what you can and can't do, but you also have to learn. And the best thing for me, to be honest with you, like when I got drafted, because when every— I think everybody sees their goals, right? You're like, hey, I want to be a college basketball player. Then you're a college basketball player, but then you're like, okay, I want to be an All-American and I want to, you know, you see those goals.

Yeah.

I feel like when I was thinking about the NBA, it was like, I want to be an NBA player. It wasn't like, I want to be an NBA player and like play 15 minutes a night. It was like, I want to be an NBA player. So like during the draft process, you hear like, don't make draft night your highlight. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you get drafted. I'm like, I'm an NBA player. I made it. And that was like the worst thing, but best thing for me. Right. So I'm, I get drafted 50th to the Pacers. I'm thinking like, hey, I'm an NBA player. Like, I don't know why I thought this, but I'm like, I'm eventually going to be given a chance to play. But like, as me and you know, like, it's not like that. Like, nobody owes you anything. Nobody cares what you did in college. Nobody cares what you did before you got to the NBA. Like, now it's like, Davis, you were saying brick by brick. Now it's like time for you to start with no bricks and now see if you can build your house now. And it was, it was great. Like, I enjoyed my experience in Indiana and then I was cut. And that was the best thing that happened to me because that made me realize like, okay, your routines that you had in college that made you good, they stopped when you were in Indiana because all you saw was you were an NBA player and you thought, you thought that they were going to give you a chance. Now I realized like I had to go out there and like take it.

Yeah.

So I went down to the G League and the best thing that I ever came up with was just a routine. Like no matter if I was tired, sick, not feeling well, feeling good. There was like a routine that I did every day. I lifted before practice, I shot before practice, and then got treatment after practice. It was like 4 hours of like—

Wow.

Of my day. But you know, when you're professional, you just, you have that much time in your day. It's like to take care of your body. So, once I started figuring that out, like every day, like, or week or month, like I just felt like I was like constantly feeling a lot better, feeling more in shape, feeling like I was making shots. And it just came down to just having a routine one day at a time. Like, I feel like me and you have had this conversation where it's just like, hey, I'm just trying to stack good days on top of good days. And next thing you know, I have a good month or a good year.

Yeah.

And, uh, but yeah, the best thing that happened to me was, was getting cut because it made me realize like there's no handouts, right? It's more or less like, all right, who's going to show up and who's going to take this opportunity? Because there's 400 other guys that are waiting outside to get the same opportunity.

No, that's, that's real. Um, I, I totally hear you in terms of like, once you get to, to this level, everything just changed. Like you're starting back from, from ground zero when you're in college. Right. Because I truthfully, like I had a lot of those same things of, you know, if I, if I check this box and if I'm all-league and, you know, this guy who was all-league got drafted here, and if I do this and I take care of business there, like, all these things will start to align. And my career just didn't happen that way at all. But for you, it did happen. Like, you're an All-American, you're the best player on one of the best teams in the country. Is there this helpless feeling at that point? And, and you were on draft boards, but you're looking at mid Second round, you know, maybe late second round, right? Who knows? So is there this helpless feeling at that point of like, man, like, what do I have to do? Like, I, I've, I've done everything there is to do in college. I've won at the highest level. I've had production at the highest level. Like, is there that helpless feeling of like, what do I got to do?

Uh, no, I don't think I let myself get to that point. Cause then I think I'd be more on the verge of like, giving up than I would be moving forward. So pardon my French, it was more like, I'm gonna go show these motherfuckers like why I need to be ahead of the next person. Uh, just 'cause that's just how I've— I feel like that's just how we've had to grow up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, whether if it was at like South Playground in Portsmouth and we're playing in the— was it Power Light? Like—

Gaslight Summer League.

Yeah. Where you're playing against grown men who are looking at you like, You know, and you have to, at some point you have to be like, nah, like enough is enough. Like, I'm not— I'm done getting punked and I'm gonna go score on you. So, I just feel like it's not like we grew up a little rougher than anybody else. Like, we, we've both had great childhoods, you know what I mean?

Right.

Like, a lot of amazing things happened, but at the end of the day, like, I never wanted to look back on my career and say like, what, this wasn't enough? I wanted to be like, okay, what more do you need to see? Like, do you want me to play this person one-on-one? Do you want me to play this? What do you want me to do? And I think after a while it, it gets tiring, but it's sort of like, I read a book called The Obstacle Is the Way. And it's, it's more or less like, that's part of my journey. That's the Georges Niang journey. My journey isn't, you know, uh, I don't, I don't want to be specific, but like a Markelle Fultz or like someone else, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

The number one pick. That wasn't my journey. My journey was, I'm gonna have to keep on proving people that, yes, I'm the right answer. And if you wanna see it again, I'll do it again.

I wanna get back, Georges, to you changing your game for the NBA. You talked about being self-aware and how a lot of that comes from being self-aware. Was it all that, or is it also, there are people now in the Jazz organization saying, hey, if you wanna get on the court, here's what we need from you, here's what we need from you. Is it a combination of both at that point?

Yeah, um, I would say it's a combination of both. I mean, I think at Iowa State I could dribble wherever I wanted to dribble, I could shoot whatever shot I could shoot wherever I wanted to, um, and then the NBA, you realize there's like roles, right? Like there's 3-and-D, there's guys who rebound, there's guys who defend, there's guys who protect the rim, there's point guards, um, and then there's just like specialists, like shooters, like And I think you, when you first get there and Duncan, correct me if I'm wrong, you kind of have to figure out, all right, what, what can I do at an NBA level? One thing, like, cause it's like, people are like, oh, let me get in my bag. It's like, make sure your bag has 2 suits, like 2 things that you can do. Like, right. I like that. Either like, you know, you don't need 17 outfits. You just need 1 or 2. You know what I mean? And like, Shooting will get you on the court and keeping— being a neutral defender or being able to handle the ball and be another playmaker. Like, those things are like kind of what have gotten me on the court. But it really started even simpler than that. Like, we played a big lineup. It was Derek Favors and Rudy, and they started and they needed someone to play like 4 minutes each half and be able to make corner 3s. So literally my coach, Alex Jensen, sat me down. He said, hey, There's been a lot of guys at your position that come and they go. Do you want to know why they go? And I'm like, yeah, like, what? Why do they go? He was like, you see that shot in the corner? They don't make that. And they let their guy score on them on the other end. He was like, so if you can make that and not let your guy score like every time down, he was like, you'll play. And he was like, let me tell you, when you get in the game, like, you know, you don't get like a couple up and backs to make a shot. Like probably the first time you check in, they're not going to know who you are. and they're going to help on Rudy and Donovan, and you're going to have a wide open 3. I hope you make it. And then like the rest was up to me. He was like, this is— he's like, this is your window. Are you going to take advantage of it? Are you just going to let it pass you? Like just stuff like that, like motivating stuff. And it was like, it started simple. I made, I made a couple corner 3s. My coach decided to start trusting me. And then next thing you know, you do one small thing that lets you get more minutes, more opportunity, and then you're allowed to blossom. But people think They're just gonna come in and do like 10 dribbles, step back, and that's gonna create an opportunity. It's like, I literally made corner 3s for like 10 games, maybe like 1 or 2 or sometimes 0, but I shot them enough. And my coach was like, all right, this is a guy that I want in there. And next thing it turns into a rotation spot.

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I agree.

Yeah, I love the simplicity of that because you're— he's spot on and you're spot on in that, like, it's pretty obvious when you watch an NBA game today, there's like 2, maybe 3 people that are, like, actually getting the ball on each team and, like, getting to catch a feel and, like, get into rhythm and have the ball and You know, play through that, you know, that type of, of game. And like you say, get it, get in your bag. And the majority of everyone else is, how can you work around those players? And that's one thing, just watching your career, that I've loved to see is like, you've taken that, that opportunity, like you said, the 4 minutes a half, something as simple as that, and you've parlayed it into something more. Because that's when, like, you can't showcase that you're capable of more if you're not getting on the floor. So the first thing you have to do is be on the floor in order to parlay it into more. Um, and, and now, like, you know, you had bright spots in the playoffs last year. You've, you know, shown your versatility as a defender, and everyone knows that you're capable of doing more. Everyone that at least has followed your career has seen what you can do with, like, the ball in your hands and do different things. But right now, that's what the Utah Jazz needs you to do. And that's what being a professional is, is showing up and In doing your job and what's asked of you.

Yeah, 100%. I think Alex Caruso hit it on the head. I read a quote. He was like, dudes are coming into an interview thinking they're interviewing for the CFO, but it's really for the janitor spot. And I was like, that's spot on. Like, it doesn't get any realer than that. But the problem is, is society has everybody fooled that like, yeah, the NBA probably highlights LeBron James, Uh, you know what I mean? Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker. But they also didn't highlight when PJ Tucker was scoring 0 points but guarding the other team's best player and having 10 rebounds. Like—

Yeah.

That's, that's the thing where it's like little stuff like that goes unnoticed and it's like, hey, yeah, the, the guys who score all the points get a lot of money, but so don't the guys that just play defense and rebound.

They're doing all right, too. They're doing all right, too. Yeah, exactly. I think— and obviously you have G League experience as well. Uh, we shouted out your, uh, All-G League First Team, uh, which was—

Yeah. Big bonus. Big bonus.

Big-time stuff. Um, and I think that's exactly— you know, I obviously spent time in the G League, and it's such an interesting— it should be like a psychological experiment of, like, People get mixed up and confused of what translates or like what NBA teams I think are looking for. And that's not to say that I have everything figured out and that I know, but like one thing I do know is that pretty much every NBA team isn't looking for a guy to come in and take 15 to 20 shots a night. That's just not how it works. So how, for you, you talked about developing your routine there.

Yeah.

And that, that was the foundation for that and starting to grow, uh, in terms of that. But like, how else did your G League experience help prepare you for the day-to-day and the role that you have now?

Um, it was huge, um, just to be mentally prepared. So I— it let me play through my mistakes more or less because the, the NBA game is totally different than the, the college game. So it let me get a feel for what works, what doesn't work. I mean, as me and you know, like the biggest mistake, like helping strong side corner. So the people who don't know, that's like when the ball's being driven at you and you're in the same corner where it's being driven at and you help trying to stop the ball. And the corner is the closest shot that's worth more points than anywhere else on the floor. And that's when you're like, where in an NBA game it'd be like, well, I can't afford to have him out there. In the G League, it was like, I was one of the best guys out there. So I was like, hey, don't do that. So it was me like learning the game and learning what works and knowing when I can over-dribble and when I can't over-dribble. You know, if I had a smaller guy where I could get my shots from. But once I started with the Golden State— Santa Cruz Warriors, Golden State's G League affiliate, and then I signed the new 2-way contract with the Utah Jazz. And biggest thing is when like Dennis Lindsay called me in, the president of basketball operations, he was like, guys that make shots and know how to play usually stick here. Good luck.

Yeah.

And, you know, from there on out, I was working on making 3s and making floaters when people tried to chase me off the line. And just my whole G League experience, as you know, Duncan, like it's humbling, right? You go from Michigan or Iowa State where you're chartering every flight, To now you're up at 6 AM flying C-74 on a Southwest flight. And you're thinking to yourself, like, I was thinking to myself, like, damn, I was in Indiana. Like, am I ever gonna get out of here? Like, I— there, once I get out of here, like, I'm never going back. And that, like, adds, like, another element of motivation. But you see guys fizzle out because there's politics to everything, right? And you kind of just have to put your head down and Think about like, hey, I'm controlling what I can control. I'm showing up, I'm working hard and treating people the right way. And that should be good enough at the end of the day. And if it isn't, just know that you put your best into it.

Yeah. Quick tangent off of that. I think also people really underestimate how important that stuff is, all the non-basketball stuff, especially for guys honestly like us, you know, it's one thing to put up with That type of stuff from, you know, the max players or the all-stars, but the last thing an organization wants to do is put up with it, you know, from their team. The minimum 4th, 5th man.

Yeah.

From those guys. Um, so I think, yeah, exactly. That's, that's, uh, incredibly important. You talk a lot about how specific your role is right now. And I, that's something that I can certainly relate to. How do you avoid putting yourself in a box of, like, for example, in the offseason— obviously, this offseason was unique in that it was so short— but how do you avoid still working on other areas of your game and still improving? And obviously doing those things really well, because you know that that's what's getting you on the floor, but still developing? 'Cause, you know, I'm a firm believer that I'm not, like, far from— I'm far from a finished product in terms of, like, my best version has not been achieved.

No.

And I know you feel the same way about yourself. So how do you avoid that of like, you don't want to just work on corner 3s and floaters. Like you still want to showcase and have ultimately have a role in the NBA that is more than that because you're a competitive person. How do you walk that line?

Uh, it's tough. And if we're being real, I'd probably give a recommendation that you probably work out somewhere other than where your team is at. I mean, it's safe to say, I mean, but I think you get that by just playing. And I don't mean like playing with like at the YMCA, but like real like competitive pickup, whether it's with college guys and different things like that. And you see like, okay, like this is what I do in, in my daily job. Like I shoot corner 3s and try and make floaters or drive to the rim and, and kick out. But then again, you're like, okay, what 3 things Have I been— what positions have I been put in when I've been in an NBA game where I'm like, ah, like I don't feel comfortable?

Yeah.

Those are the try to like 2 or 3 things. And I don't try to do like 6 or 7, like 2 or 3 is even a lot. Like this offseason—

Give me one. Yeah. Give me one or two.

Yeah. This offseason it was more or less like shooting off the dribble because I knew like you can only be catch and shoot for like so long. So like you do a good job of it. It's like you come off a handoff and you throw the ball out. And then like run into it. And like, that's a simple way of shooting off the dribble but creating space. So that's one thing that I tried to learn because literally I'd pump fake and take a dribble and move over 2 inches and the guy's hand is like here instead of here. And it's like, I, I, I think people get misconstrued. It's like you— like I talked about getting in your bag. Like there's, there's a— I feel you on not being a finished product, but there's a limit. to like what you possibly can be, right? Like, you're never going to be dunking over like 7-footers, but there are things that what you do that you can expand that like take a little bit of effort every single day that will make you this much better. Um, so I try to find those little things. I don't know if that really answers your question specifically, but I'm not working on my between, between, cross, step back. No, I don't think those things will get me better. But I do— I— this summer I tried to work on Being, being better posting up. So like if, you know, teams are switching 1 through 5, that if I do get the ball late in the shot clock, I can make a play and shooting off the dribble. Those are 2 things. Like, I don't think people need 4 to 6 or anything like that.

I think that that perfectly ties into like a lot of your messaging early on, which is just like the incremental improvements, like the day-to-day, like just continuing to build stack. And, you know, if you continue to work on these things over time, they'll start to like seamlessly be added to your game. Um, so I, I definitely hear you on that. And I'm similar in my approach in that I think it's important to be like super specific going into an offseason of like, this is what I want to walk away with, this is what, you know, this is where I am. And also, like you said, having the self-awareness or like people in your corner that are going to be real with you. I think that's another just general issue in professional sports in general, but maybe particularly the NBA, is like people just get the wrong ideas or have like maybe like arguably even detrimental ideas that are like being fed into their ears. And it just goes down to ultimately ends up being a bad thing for everybody involved. Um, I want to ask a little bit about the Jazz this year. In that obviously you guys have it rolling right now. Um, I think as of the time we're recording this, you guys have the best record in the NBA. Uh, and it just seems like—

Say it again. Say it again.

It just seems like you guys are firing on all cylinders. There haven't been— I mean, you guys got Derrick back, Favors. Um, there hasn't been any crazy, you know, roster moves or anything like that. It's Pretty much the same team that you guys had last year. Not the same team that we saw in the bubble because you have, you know, Bogdan back. But what have you noticed this year in comparison to last? What's changing? What's different? And how— what has ultimately been, you know, effective for you guys?

You know, obviously when you lose like a 3-1 lead and you bring back the same team, you're obviously gonna have like that sour feeling. Obviously, we felt like we had Denver beat, right? And clearly we thought we had them beat because they came out and then they, they beat us. And I think when you have like a whole offseason to marinate on that and think about it, and then you think about, you know, what can we do better? How can we improve? And I think it started off with Coach. I mean, I think we played a preseason game against the Suns, right? And we won. They didn't really, they didn't play anybody. I think Jay Crowder sat out and we weren't really defending and he came in the next day just going in on us like, you guys don't care, you know, this, that, and the other. You know, I'm probably like putting the PG version of this.

Right.

But he was like, I know what not running back in transition gets us. I know what not defensive rebounding, I know what not picking up the ball at the right spot over half court gets us. It gets us out in the first round. And I think all of us, like, I hate talking about people's money, but a lot of the guys that we brought back got taken— I mean, you get taken care of. I mean, you play to win games, but you also play to support your family. And a lot of the guys that are here are taken care of. So, all right guys, like, what are we going to sacrifice? Like, me and Joe Ingles talk all the time, and he was like, all of us are taken care of. Like, None of us need to score 20 points or do something spectacular every night. Like, we have all the pieces now. It's like, who's going to sacrifice, whether coming off the bench or passing up a good shot to get a great shot, or, you know, being that guy that chases around Lou Williams the whole night, or, you know, Duncan Robinson, you know what I mean? Joe has been known to be that guy when we play you guys, you know what I mean? Like, hey, I won't play a ton of pick and roll because I'm going to be exhausted. But Duncan Robinson's not getting more than, you know, 4 3s off. And it's just a sacrifice that I think all of us have, have put in and realized that, you know, we're all taken care of, right? We all have a handsome check at the end of each month. Now, like, we talk about winning, like, you know, everybody talks about like, yeah, let's get after it. Like, let's win. Let's— now, like, let's, let's really do it because we just were talking about it the last couple of years and look where that got us. You know, so I think it finally, like, enough is enough, and I think we're rolling. I mean, it's early, like, injuries happen, COVID happens, so you kind of just want to— like you said, Davis, brick by brick. I'm just trying to take it one game at a time. Like, I didn't even know we were playing you guys, but now that I know— but I know we have Boston tomorrow night, and I'd rather focus on that than looking too far ahead, because then I end up tripping over Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, and then it's like— Who knows what happens after that?

I'm curious. So you obviously don't have a Saturday against Duncan Robinson circled on your, on your calendar or on your schedule. But I am curious because you guys are good friends and you have other guys in the league that you're good friends with. Like when you play Denver and you're playing Monte, like, what is that like? Is it— I, I, I remember seeing a postgame interview with D-Lo when they were playing the Sixers a couple years ago and some reporter asked, like, I think Ben Simmons had a good game and he was like, are you happy to see Ben playing well? He's like, no, it's the playoffs. Like, I'm trying to win. But in the regular season, is it different? Like, say, say you play Miami Saturday and George goes for 25, Duncan. Like, is there any part of you at all that's like, you know what, good for George? Or is it strictly, man, F that?

Like, it depends who wins. Like, it depends who wins. I'm sure he'd be like, hell yeah, man, way to hoop. It basically goes like down, goes down to like if If, if you can see your friend be successful, but you can come out on the mountaintop, then like everything's cool.

100%.

Yeah.

That's, that's the easiest answer of all time is if we win, all's good. I hope Georges balls out. If we lose and Georges has something to do with it. Yeah.

I hate Georges.

I mean, that's like the worst thing in the world. We just lost. Um, but yeah, I mean, there's definitely, I always think it's interesting of, like, when I hear people talk about guys that I know in, like, pregame scouting report stuff. You know? Like, I feel like I know Georges' game really well. Like, I've watched it literally his entire life. So it's funny for me to hear our staff's interpretation of what Georges is as a basketball player. That's my favorite thing. Because like, and just to see where it like aligns and how it's different.

Yeah, that is true. And it's like, you almost wanna tell, you wanna tell your friend about what your team thinks of the other person.

Yep.

But then it's like, you only wanna tell them the good things. And the other person's like, well, what'd they say that like I can't do? And you're like, nah, nothing. They didn't say anything. Like, but you can't dribble left.

Yeah, exactly. You just throw it the nuggets. All right. G, we're about to wind it down here. We have— I have one more question for you, and then we have our Undrafted segment, which I'm sure you've heard about by now because it's just making its rounds on national media.

Yeah.

But my final question is something that we ask all of our guests, and I'm curious that if you had to— if you had to pick a specific moment or experience That had the greatest impact on your career? So whether it be, like you said, getting waived or a conversation that you had back in high school or a realization that you had playing AAU for BABC, whatever it is that served as a springboard or something that really was a catalyst that ultimately led to your success and then it shaped a perspective or just really helped keep things in perspective. Is there something, is there a specific moment that stands out?

Uh, I mean, I think there's moments for every part of your journey, right? I'll just focus on, you know, the NBA one. Cause I feel like that's probably more prevalent than— No, no, no.

You, how about this? Do 2, give us a throwback and then give us an NBA one.

Okay.

Uh, let's put you on the spot, but the people want to know.

Yeah, man. Duncan, I guess it's your podcast. Um, I would have to say one would be when I broke my foot in college and, uh, Noah Laroche, the trainer that I work out with, um, when I was in the offseason, you know, after I had done my rehab and was ready to start getting back on the court, uh, was like, why do you think that you broke your foot? And if anybody who knows Noah knows, he's asking these questions because he already knows what his answer is, but he wants to know what you think. So I was like, ah, freak accident. Like, uh, like I stepped on someone's foot. He was like, he pointed to a mirror, he's like, look at yourself. And I weighed like 260. He was like, your body could not physically handle everything that was going on here. And I'm like, what? Like I stepped on someone? He was like, no, like your feet like couldn't handle how much was going on like up here. And I was— and that like hit me where it made me realize like if you want to really be a player, like not that you have to look it, but you have to be in shape to handle the grind of being able to work hard and playing all the time and different things like that. So that's what kind of, you know, I lost like 20 pounds, uh, or like 30 pounds going into the season. And I had some of the best— I was— that's when I was a 2-time All-American, my junior and senior year.

Um, I got a quick tangent off of that, and then I want, I want to hear the second one. Um, and this just shows— it helps paint the picture of how much work in particular you put into your body. that a— he'll remain anonymous, but a college scout, I guess you could say, from our area at one point had the audacity to put in print that you were not in shape enough to ever even play 20 minutes in a college game.

Wow.

At one point in your career, somebody wrote that about you, that you would never be able to play 20 minutes in a college game.

That is facts. That— and that was just adding fuel to the fire. But, uh, no, I mean, those are part of the things though that you have to accept. And like we talked about awareness with Davis is like, all right, am I gonna be like mad that that person said that, or am I gonna change, you know, things so that people know that like, no, you said that I couldn't do it, now I can do it. Now what else do you think that I can't do? Um, yeah. I know that person's name is ingrained in my head. I write their name above my mirror every morning so that, you know, I can wake up and go prove them wrong. But no, the second one would have to be, it was my first year here. I think we played Golden State the second night when they— second day of the season, it was our second game. We had lost in Sacramento, I think the night before. And then we played Golden State and it was like my first time, like actually getting like real rotation minutes, like, Thabo Sefolosha had been, was out with an injury and coach had put me in and my first shot like was from the corner in front of the bench and it like, someone came out and closed out like super hard and I shot it and it like, you know when like the corner like hits the top side of the backboard?

Yeah.

And DeMarcus Cousins got up 'cause he was on the Warriors, he was like, man, hell nah. Don't you ever shoot no shit like that again, ever, ever. So I'm like, damn, man, like my first time getting in, like coach believed in me, first quarter put me in, like, and I miss. And not only miss, but I hit like the side of the backboard. Then Draymond Green's like, I got him. So, you know, he can like help in the lane.

Yeah.

Everything that's going on. So Ricky Rubio drives in there, Draymond Green cuts him off, he swings to me at the top of the key. Or like on the wing kind of. And Draymond Green like looks at me and like waves his hand as I'm about to shoot it and I hit it. And I just remember thinking in my head like, just do what you've done. Like, yes sir, all the time. Just follow through, hold your follow through. And I made it and I looked back and DeMarcus Cousins was like— and we— and I ended up hitting like a couple more shots that game and like we ended up losing on like a late game tip-in, but The thing that like gave me like the confidence to know like, hey, like you belong and like you can do this was like Quinn Snyder. He's like, he's one of the best dudes and best coaches around. And he texted me after the game. He's like, I know we lost, but like, I'm so proud of you. Like, you know, you belong out there. And like the way you handled yourself, I just threw you in there and you just kept on chugging and kept on going and you made winning plays. And that's why I'm excited to grow and coach you. And that was like the moment where like, this journey is tough enough in the NBA, but the fact that you can have someone there to like be in your corner and they make, actually make like really big decisions, it was like huge for my confidence. And then from there on out, it was like, once you have this swagger and confidence about you, I mean, the sky's the limit.

I love that, man. That's awesome. Yeah, that's great stuff. All right. The, uh, the last segment we got is an undrafted segment. So basically we're going to give you 3 different topics, 3 different categories. I want you to pick the most underrated, you know, the undervalued, the underappreciated, the diamond in the rough of each one. We try to tailor our topics to our guests a little bit. Um, so with that being said, this is dangerous. With that being said, our First one is your undrafted, your underappreciated, your overlooked cheat meal. So you're— I know you keep it tight with your diet, but everyone has a cheat day, a cheat meal, whatever it may be. What is your undrafted cheat meal?

Mm, so it'd be dinner, right?

It could be whatever you want it to be. It could be whatever you want. It could be dessert. It could be dessert.

Oh, I mean, if it's a cheat meal, Uh, dinner and dessert are going into one.

Like, okay.

Yeah.

Give us the comprehensive answer. I want everything. Don't spare any, any details.

Uh, so usually I'll wait for like a cheat meal either when we play in like Houston or LA, because those places usually have the best restaurants, but due to COVID, you know, that's been like a struggle. Um, I can't believe I'm telling you guys this, but there's Chicago deep dish pizza, which I really like. I feel like is super like underrated. People are like, oh, like you get deep dish, like that's like too much.

Yeah.

I literally, sometimes I have it like Lou Malnati's like delivered in like a cooler and it'd be like one, but it'd be like one small one, but it's deep dish. You toss it in the oven, 20 minutes, bang. And you, you have it there. Cheese, deep dish, you know what I mean? Pepperoni, whatever you want. But, uh, my, my, uh, undrafted, undervalued dessert has to be the butter cake from Mastro's. I've never had a dessert better.

I've heard, uh, that's like a legendary cake, that the, the butter cake from Mastro's. I hear about it all the time. I've never had it, but I hear about it all the time.

Yeah, well, down in Miami they keep it— you guys on a strict diet down there too. I tried to get you over your, your body fat By sending you to Chip Cookie when we were—

That's right.

In Utah last time.

All right, Dave's gonna take the second one.

Yeah, next one. You've already hit us in this conversation with, if you're gonna have a bag, make sure it's got 2 suits, which is an elite quote. But my next— our next category for you is a quote. Just give us one that, you know, we don't want something cheesy classic, but do you have like a— give us a good one.

It's been a— I'll give you 2, right?

Mm-hmm.

One is from Morgan Wooten and it was, it's been since my 6th grade basketball coach, you know, had it printed on like a t-shirt that I wore till I was like in high school. It was probably a triple XL. But it was just, there's no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs. And I think that it just made me realize nobody's ever gonna be elevated up to success. Like if you want something bad enough, it's gonna take hard work of, climb into the 60th floor like it would be, you know, running stairs, or there's no elevator that you can just take that's like, hey, I want to be a doctor, and 2 days later, uh, you're a doctor. And, uh, the next one is from the late, uh, great Alex Oriaki, the UConn Husky, 2-time national champion. We were at Tilton and, uh, we'd wake up before class and shoot, and he said something like, you know, To live like no one else, you gotta live like no one else. And I think—

I like that.

And I, I— it's true. Like, Tom Brady won a Super Bowl yesterday and he said the quote like, I'm willing to give up my life, I hope you are too. Like, how mentally, how could you lose? Like, knowing that you put your whole life into it and that person, you know, has more than one cheat meal a week. Um, you know, I I don't know, those are the 2 quotes that I kind of live— not live by, but, you know, they keep me motivated. And at a surface level, because, you know, with this, uh, this journey, you know, there are peaks and valleys, and you kind of got to stay on the straight and narrow and not get too high and not get too low. And just remember that, you know, just continue to work hard and good things— I mean, this has happened for us. Who would have thought 12 years ago we'd be on a podcast? You in Miami? I would never imagine you in Miami. You're like the most like— Simple guy in, uh, me in Utah.

I was really hoping we were going to get through this conversation without a mention of Tom Brady and the Buccaneers, but we did.

So Davis is a Chiefs fan, so—

Oh, I know, KC native over there, right?

Yeah, let's just keep it moving. Dunk, you got the last one?

Yeah, the, uh, the last one, George, is an overlooked, underappreciated book. So just a book recommendation for the people.

Uh, you know, I've— I read this book, uh, a while ago, but The Energy Bus by Jon Gordon. Um, that's just— it was probably one of the first books that I got into, like, actually, like, motivational reading. Like, I've read The Power of Moments, like I mentioned earlier, The Obstacle Is the Way, but The Energy Bus is so true because I'm such an emotional person, as Dunk knows. Like, there'd be sometimes I'd miss a shot and punt a ball into a middle school light, and next thing you know, we're paying for the repairs on the light in a small town middle school in New Hampshire. And then they're like, Georges, like, seriously, like, you can't be acting like this. Um, and it just made me realize, like, wherever, like, your energy is at is how your life is going to pan out. If you're going to be a negative person and always be down in the dumps, then your life— you're always going to find a way to look at life negative. And if you're a positive person, you know, stuff could be horribly bad, but then you look at it like, well, it could be worse. And I'd rather be that than live dark and gloomy and be negative. So The Energy Bus— and Jon Gordon does a great job of painting a good motivational picture with all of his books. The Energy Bus just happened to be one that I first started to read when I was getting into reading and motivational books. So that's an undervalued, undrafted book that should have went top 10.

That's great stuff, man. And anybody that knows you truly knows that you live by that. So we've all been uplifted thanks to the 50 minutes or whatever it's been that you've been gracious enough to join us. So Georges, thank you, man, for coming on. I'm sure people will, will love this. We certainly had a great time with it. But yeah, thanks for taking the time, man.

No, thanks for having me on, guys. I appreciate it.