Bridging the GAP from Beginner to Billionaire with Glenn Sanford

This episode is brought to you by KPMG Risk Services. KPMG believes that when you've earned the trust of all your stakeholders, that's when your business has a solid platform to grow. That's the trusted imperative. KPMG Risk Services develop and put in place dynamic risk strategies designed to help your business earn that all important trust. Go to reit, KPMG US Trust to learn more.

What is the roadmap to defeat self sabotage, negative thinking and learned helplessness in these unprecedented times? You must get connected, get growing, get certain and get attitude. The Get Attitude Podcast. We have with us today somebody that has completely redefined the real estate brokerage industry. And we are here today with Mr. Glenn Sanford, CEO and founder of Exp Realty. Welcome, Glenn Sanford, to the Gap.

Awesome. Hey, thanks. Thanks, Glenn. And, and I know you had me here because for the first season or first episode of season two, because we spell our name the same way.

Hey, two ends, you got to have it like that, right?

Gotta have it like that.

And, and hey, but I'm sure me and you are just fine. As long as somebody's at a closing table, if they misspell it, it's all good. So it's.

It is. It's not like anybody's left off an end from time to time, right?

Yeah, it is. So funny. So where are you coming from? I'm just curious. You got a beauty. It looks like you got a beautiful house there, wherever you're at.

Yeah. So I'm in the Pacific Northwest. I'm north of Seattle, about an hour and a half right on the Canadian border. I'm literally looking at White Rock, British Columbia, Canada, where I'm sitting right now. So it's. But right on, right on the ocean. Fortunately or unfortunately, I live fairly remote. And I say fortunately because obviously with COVID going on, it's nice to be remote. But unfortunately, because this is where I would come back to every time I travel. And so it was like my little repose to sort of just decompress. So I've been decompressing since March 15, right here up on the Canadian border.

And we may invert our structure on this interview, but ladies and gentlemen, Glenn Sanford is the founder and CEO of Aruba Real Estate Company that has 35,000 real estate agents and co owners, which is just a beautiful nuance to what you did, what you do. And exp has grown to 35,000 agents faster than any company in the history of the world. Now, that doesn't happen by sitting at home in the Corner of the United States, or what was it like for you, taking this from the original 15 guys to 35,000. What's that travel look like? We have listeners I know that used to travel or getting ready to start traveling when the world opens back up. What's the day in the life of somebody like that do? And what's the attitude for all that?

Yeah, so one of my. One of the people I listened to probably in 2008, 2007 was Don Hobbs. You probably know Don, but Don used to have a company called Hobbs Herder. And I went to a mega managing course. And one of the things that he said that just stuck with me so well was the purpose of a business is to serve the needs of the owner. And so once I heard that, once I internalized that, I started to just sort of design what I thought the perfect lifestyle would be as a business owner. And one of the things was I want to be able to work from anywhere. And so that really became one of my business constraints was, you know, I need to be able to work from anywhere. I need to be able to work with anyone. I need to work on anything, and I need to be able to work at any time. And so those, we call it kind of the four A's. But for me, it was like that really went to sort of my thinking. And then it's like, okay, well, where do I want to live? And then I got a chance in 2015, I think. Debbie Byrey was on your podcast. But Debbie and I traveled the country in 2015-2016 by motor coach. Not because we had to, but we just wanted to see if we could, could we run a fast growing real estate company? At that point, we were a little smaller. We were in the. I think. I think we ended up around 1800, 2000 agents that year in 2020 16. But 2015, we were just coming up on, I think, thousand agents or so. So we had went through this phase, but we were. We were growing it. And so one of my things is just how can I be entirely mobile and be able to be engaged with the folks that I need to be engaged with, business wise? And so that's how I ended up in a remote part of Washington state building the fast growing real estate brokerage.

In the history of the world. And so let's talk about Don Hobbs from Hobbs Herder. How old were you when you were following him? What got you to start listening to him? And who were some of the other attitude coaches that you maybe have had through your life?

Yeah, so I got into real estate as an agent in 2002, and so I was big on Internet lead generation, but I was looking at branding and all the other things. And I ran into Hobbs Herder initially just because of his role in being the branding expert for the real estate industry. And so he and Greg Herter ran that company. And I, I followed him. I saw what they were doing. I was more of an Internet guy. So he was more print and really sort of a lot of postcards and mailings. But he ran a course called Mega Managing, which was how to run a real estate brokerage. And I'm going, okay, well, I need to learn that. I was already running a real estate brokerage, but I'm like, I need just some additional training and tips. And so I went there and it was amazing. He introduced me to a couple different authors that I hadn't really. Well, one that I hadn't followed before, Price Pritchett. And so there was a book that he introduced called High Velocity Culture Change, which when we made the switch to exp was phenomenal. I gave everybody in the company this little book. It wasn't very big, but it helped people sort of understand that change is tough. But if you understand that change is tough, change actually gets a lot easier. So that was certainly one of them. I've been a huge Zig Ziglar fan. Got a chance to connect in person with one of my mentors who I listen to cassettes of in the. Really in the late 80s, early 90s, and that was Tom Hopkins. Sure. And so, you know, Tom, you know, put together the how to master the art of Selling. Listen to those, like religiously. And then about a year or two ago, I finally got into a relationship with Tom Hopkins. But I was really a big book guy, a big audio guy. I wasn't. I didn't go and do a lot of one on one mentorship. I considered myself to be somewhat uncoachable. Respects I make a really bad employee. I've got fired from every job I've ever had because I'm always sort of driven to kind of do something bigger than whatever's in front of me. And so that sort of tends to rub the bosses the wrong way. Yes. So that's been kind of my M.O. so.

Well, I know. And you maybe remember Tom and I are very good friends. I've been to 20 of Tom's real estate trainings. And as I have a real estate background myself, I could call him up right now. And I know we both spoke at the exp Convention together. Unfortunately, you guys scheduled me the same time he was. So I only had about 14 people in my room, but that's okay. But, yeah, so Tommy's a really good one. You know, one thing everybody has in common is a childhood. And I always like to think back on, you know, what really makes us who we are. And I'd love to know who was your very first attitude coach and what was Glenn Sanford like as a child?

Well, for me, my first attitude coach had to be my dad and probably my dad's dad. So my. My dad's dad, my grandfather, he had a third grade education, but he was in the B business. But one thing that may have been sixth grade, but anyway, he didn't finish high school or any of that. But he discovered at one point how to win friends and influence people. The Dale Carnegie book.

Yes.

And he literally gave that book to every one of his grandkids and, of course, his sons and daughter. But he was all about. He would preach the, you know, the most important word in any language is somebody's name. So he would talk about, you know, all the different axioms that came out of that book. And then my dad also was. Ended up becoming a Dale Carnegie instructor and trainer. And so. So from. From a. You know, they're. You know, I could. I could sing some of the songs from the old Dale Carnegie days that I learned when I was a kid, you know, and, you know, because they did this sort of like kind of rah rah kind of song, kind of get the attitude going. When I was 17, 18, I sold Kirby vacuum cleaners.

Oh, my.

Door to door. Wow. And. And if you ever. If you've never. If you've never been around that, they have a. They have a Kirby songbook. So literally, you sort of think about this whole idea of, you know, how do you get your attitude up? There's a lot of really interesting things that people would do, getting out of your comfort zone. And then, you know, once. Once you're okay being goofy, then to some extent it gives you permission to actually, you know, bring a different Persona to a situation you're in. And one of the things I've been complimented on is just that I generally, I'm a fairly positive person. That doesn't mean I'm always. But for the most part, I definitely skew on the continuum to being positive and somewhat motivational, even though I'm a bit of a techie, which sort of tempers that a bit.

Well, I think it's fascinating. And I'm just telling you right now, you've started out our season great. You've really done some great things. I got to know, was your grandpa and your father both named Glenn or what was their names?

No. So Otto was my grandfather and Jim or James was my. Is my dad's name. And so he's still around. We still chat, still. Very motivational guy. He's now in his 80s and he's across the Canadian. He's across the border. So I haven't had a chance to see him in person since last year, actually. So looking forward to being able to cross the border and get together with him.

And so how did your grandfather make money with less than a high school education? What was his trade?

So Northern California. Well, they moved from Nebraska to Northern California, the Redding, Red Bluff area, back certainly before I was born. And I think even, maybe even before my dad was born. And so they got into the bee business and they actually raised bees and then sold honey, which actually was one of the reasons why I ended up in Canada was that the bees, they would have the bees in Northern California in the winter, and then they'd take them to Northern Alberta in the summer. So they'd literally have stacks of bee boxes. And so they were in that business. And my dad and my uncle were heavily involved in. In that business and going back and forth and back and forth between California and Alberta. And then they actually got into the cereal manufacturing business. So my grandpa was involved, my grandma was involved, my dad was involved, and a lot of family members were involved. We ended up. I say we. I ended up sitting at one of the label machines at one point, putting labels on stuff at like 10 years old. But we ended up going from honey to being one of the largest cereal companies in Canada. We had 16% of the cereal market at one point making granola, which honey went into that. And then he ended up selling that to Kellogg's in 1978, I think. So.

Boy, DNA, right? The DNA of entrepreneurship is in your blood. And certainly, I'm sure you, as you look at your father, I'm sure he's an old man now. I'm sure he has a grasp of what you're doing. Yes. Or does he not really care?

Yeah, it's interesting. You learn stuff all along the life path, and obviously there's a lot of things that have taken place. But he sold that business. I was at the time 13, 14 years old, and we moved to Oklahoma to get in the oil and gas business. Just before the oil collapse in 1980.

Sure.

So we went from Rags in some respects, because when I was born in single wide manufactured home in northern Alberta to eventually the second largest home in the lower mainland of British Columbia, about 10,000 square feet in the mid late 70s. And then he proceeded to lose everything in the oil and gas business, but very much continued to be an entrepreneur, continued to figure out things. So he got back into sales. He ended up doing a lot of interesting sales. And at one point he actually worked for me as a real estate salesperson for about three or four years.

I bet he was pretty good.

Yeah, he was like, literally he was the type person, he puts his hand on your shoulder and says, you should buy this house. And it wasn't like the mafia, like, sure. It was more. It was very much of a very parental, like, you should buy this house. And people go, I think we should. And so he was like top salesperson on the team.

Oh my gosh, that's so cool. And then just one more question on Otto sounds like a really cool guy. Do you remember, did he used to say, did he ever say anything to you that stuck with you? What? Like, is there a memory that stuck with you? Or when you think of Otto and him walking or whatever, what's the one thing that's inside your heart or your gut that always stays with you? About your grandfather?

Yeah, you know, he was just a really good friend. I think that was kind of the key. But he literally eat, breathed and slept, you know, how to win friends and influence people. So he literally was, you know, would quote the chapters and, you know, talk about, you know, the different things that came out of that book. And quite frankly, if I opened up the book and I scanned it, all would just come zapping back in, I'm sure, just from that type of conversation.

Not to put you on the spot, but do you remember a quote even from the song or what do you think the most powerful thing of Dale Carnegie's course, how to Win Friends and Influence People was? Or what was the mantra that came out of that that maybe sticks with you today?

Yeah, I think there's a few things, certainly asking questions and getting people to open up. I think people more interested in hearing themselves talk than actually letting the other person talk. So if you just allow people to talk, then that creates space for them to invite you into that conversation. And so there was just a lot of stuff. I mean, a lot of it became part of my mantra. And then there were other books. There was another book called Conversationally Speaking, which I thought really put the touches on how to actually use the right types of questions and open ended versus closed end and how to lead people down a path. And it was really just about conversations. And so that was a book I read in the, probably the 80s initially and of course, and then Tom Hopkins book, but. And Zig Ziglar of course, another one, you know, loved his Q and A type of stuff. But all these people were super positive, uplifting folks. And it was amazing, you know, even remembering about Del Carnegie. I mean, in the Great Depression he was just trying to figure out something that people might show up for. And he put a course together called how to Win Friends Influence People. And people wanted that they didn't know how to engage effectively with others or there was a big, big desire to learn more about that. And so he was, you know, he was the guru and you know, from, you know, in the Great Depression and forward and then we had Napoleon Hill and a bunch of other folks that did their thing. But Dale Carnegie was, you know, in a league all his own.

Yeah, that's, that's so true. And everything still relevant today, still widely studied. And you've dumped on us about 7 or 8. Great book. Always appreciate when our guests give us more information and references to stuff that we should do. How long did you sell Kirby vacuums door to door and what were the lesson or lessons that you learned about door to door vacuum sales?

Yeah, so that was a really interesting time. You know, I was again 17, 18 years old. The reason why I. Well, there's a couple reasons why I got into Kirby vacuum cleaner sales. One was I answer blind ad. So I actually didn't know I was going to go on a job interview to actually do Kirby vacuum cleaners. It's something about selling industrial cleaning equipment. That was the ad. And then you get there and then you watch this long video and you find out it's a Kirby deal. And you're like, I'm going, well, I got nothing else going on. I may as well sell Kirby vacuum cleaners. But the reason, what appealed to me about the initial ad was I wanted to learn how to sell. So the one thing I sort of realized early on in life was that if I learned how to sell, I'd always have a job. So that really was very formative for me and I wanted to do the hardest sales jobs I possibly could because if I could master those, then I knew that I would be, I'd always be employable. So when I did Kirby vacuum cleaners, initially, I sucked at it. I literally didn't. I couldn't sell any Kirby vacuum cleaners is that there was like all the objections and all this stuff. And then eventually I started to sell Kirby vacuum cleaners pretty well and actually did really well. And these were not inexpensive vacuum cleaners. This is 1986. 80. Yeah, 85. 86. Someplace in there. And the vacuum cleaners were $1,000. Think about that thousand dollars for something that just pulls dirt out of the carpet. I mean, you could. And you could buy vacuum cleaners at the. At the store for under 100. So these are expensive vacuum cleaners. And then if you get all the attachments was twelve hundred and fifty dollars. And. But I would get about $250 every time I sold a Kirby vacuum cleaner, and I would get another fifty to a hundred dollars. I sold all the accessories. So if you think about at that point in time, you know, even if I sold one a week, that was pretty good income. It wasn't bad. I was making 1,000, $1,500 a month in the late 80s. But I sold more than that when I finally got good and I started to actually sell four or five of these a week. And I was making 4,000amonth at 17, 18 years old. But what ended up, I did it for about six, seven months and one. I believed in the product, so that was key. The reason why I got good at it is I believe that everybody needed a Kirby vacuum cleaner. So I really bought in to the fact that this was the machine that you needed. The challenge was that I overheard a conversation of my boss at the time with his wife, who ran the Kirby place, of what he paid for the machine that I sold for $1,000.

Oh, boy.

And the moment I heard the price he paid for the machine, all of a sudden all the value dropped out from my perspective.

Interesting.

And I spent the next five, four or five weeks trying to sell Kirby vacuum cleaners. I go on the demos, I go and do my pre card, I go knock on doors, I'd ask people, and I do all the work. And I couldn't sell another machine to save my life because all of a sudden I didn't value the machine. I didn't think it was the best machine anymore. And it probably was. The one was the point in time where I realized how important belief in the product that you. That you're selling had to be for you to be successful. So if you don't, you know, that's probably one huge tip that I have is just if you don't believe in what you're selling, go sell something else or go Find something you believe in because it'll change the game.

Yeah, man, that is just an unreal story. You don't have to tell me, but I'm guessing he paid 100 to 150 for the machine.

He did, yeah. Yeah.

So it was a 10x sale.

Yeah. Yeah. So he had got up in the. In their pay plan such that he was buying at a pretty good discount. But they had, you know, they had. And that thousand dollars, about 850, $900 of it was all commission.

We have a lot of business people, we have a lot of real estate agents that listen to this. And the season title is influencers and innovators. Do you think there's certain questions or what were the questions that you were asking yourself when you started EXP Realty? Or what are some of the great questions that our gappers can ask themselves when they're sitting there trying to bridge that gap that could maybe unlock, you know what? God, I'm not asking myself that. What would you say would be the two or three best questions people can ask themselves to create change, to create innovation in their life and to become an influencer?

Yeah. So one thing, you know, I always, you know, fortunately, you know, I had great mentors. I mentioned my dad, my grandpa, even the sales manager that I had, Kirby. I learned a little lots of things along the way, and I've always sort of followed great mentors. Never had a coach. As I mentioned, I'm not really coachable, but I like to connect with people who have done things at a higher level and in some capacity. I think one of the things in 2009, when we started exp, we started at the bottom of the housing market. Market had crashed. 2008, 2009, real estate wasn't changing hands very much. I had three going on four physical offices. In 2008, we scaled everything back to one office in Bellingham, Washington. But I'd also come out of technology. I'd worked for AOL at one point. I built an online service called Interactive Cafe. I started an ecommerce logistics company called eShippers.com. so I had this technology bank come from a sales background and then built my real estate career. So when 2008 hit and we scaled everything back, we recognized that in our pockets we had something that even just two or three years prior, I think that the iPhone had just come out. In 2018, 2007, 2008, we just got social media, but we'd also just got cable Internet in pretty much every home in America. So this is A really interesting time to think about the future of real estate. And so for us, we're like, one, I can't afford offices, and two, if I'm going to be in real estate, I need to figure out a way to build a profitable real estate brokerage in a bad market. And I figured if we could do that, and I'd read enough books and I've been a business guy enough over the years to figure out that most businesses that succeed actually start at the bottom of a market. So, you know, anybody can start, you know, when the market's going well. You know, if things are going well, anybody can make money. But if you can actually build a defensible business model when everything's not going well, then you can, you've got something that potentially can scale. And so that was one thing. The other thing is I've always played with this idea that your vision has to be big enough that other people want to follow you on the journey. I know we're talking about real estate, but really any industry, a lot of times what I found, even when I was a younger entrepreneur is if my vision wasn't very big, nobody wanted to do it with me. So one of the things I always thought about is make sure your vision is big enough that other people want to join you in executing against that, that, that, that, that journey. And so for us, we, we said in 2009, Crazy as it sounds, but we said we want to build the first, we didn't say cloud based, but the first nationwide real estate brokers that's not dependent on bricks and mortar. Right. And, and we also wanted to think about, you know, what would be all the reasons that I would want to be at that brokerage if it existed today, what would it need to have for me to want to hang my license there rather than going and starting my own real estate brokerage. And so those really sort of were a lot of the formative questions that we went through. And we said, you know, we're again at the bottom of the housing market. There's lots of real estate agents, they're somewhat out of work, whether they be managing brokers or otherwise. And we said, you know, a lot of people will be willing to invest early on right now because they know that there's not a lot of other opportunities out there to grow something. And if they can see that this is the future of real estate, they'll want to help us. So those were some of the things that we kind of played with and we've been literally excited about everything. Even day one, I wasn't really that fundamentally concerned as to whether people would buy into the model or not. My, my bigger thing was just wanting to make sure we had enough people who believed in the vision early on so we could support what we thought was going to come eventually to us.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, those are two just unbelievable nuggets, I think those are. You know, when we do our podcast and people say things that I know can change somebody's life, I think you just dropped two bombs on somebody out there who's walking on the beach or sitting in their car going, what am I supposed to do? So jump to the bottom of whatever market there is and start figuring it out. With the success you've had, I'm guessing that you've gotten to meet people that maybe you didn't think you would be able to meet. I'd love to know, you know, new friendships, new peers, or new acquaintances that have maybe woke you up even or helped you grow. And what was their advice to you? Who were they and what was their advice? Is there anybody that comes to mind?

Yeah, you know, there definitely is. You know, more recently, I mentioned getting a chance to connect with Tom Hopkins. I mean, for me, I got a message on LinkedIn. I'm like, literally, I was in bed, I pulled up my phone, I had a little pop up that says, tom Hopkins wants to connect with you on LinkedIn. And like, so initially I'm going, well, maybe it's not the Tom Hopkins. Maybe it's just a Tom Hopkins. But then I open up LinkedIn, sure enough, it's Tom Hopkins. I go, holy smokes. This is like, I've read like most. Well, not. He's actually written lots of books, but I've read like two or three of his books. Listen to his audio. Is like a disciple. And so I'm like, I'm accepting it and I'm like sending me a note. And like three weeks later, we're in Scottsdale, Arizona, having lunch. And I'm like going, this is like a dream of mine to meet somebody who was like this huge, huge mentor in my life, even though we had never met in person before. Another one, the publisher of Success magazine, Stuart Johnson. So Stuart has, to a large extent, sort of taken me under his wing around organizations that are somewhat unique in scale. And he brings a lot of CEOs of people who built companies primarily in the direct sales space, but companies that work with a lot of independent contractors that have scaled up and all the challenges they went through. So through that, he introduced me Just briefly to John Maxwell. And I've met some other folks in that space, and there's a whole bunch of people that I. I don't want to say I took for granted, meeting along the way, but in the real estate space, like Stefan Swanepoel. That guy is a freaking rock star. And I got to meet him early days. We're only 300 agents in exp. But he helped mentor me a bit. And just because, again, we were doing something unique and interesting, that he took the time to actually spend some time, you know, providing some sage counsel. But those are a few. I mean, there's so many people that I've met. I tend to keep my head down, though. Like, I'm not a big. Like, for me, it's more about, you know, working on the business than, you know, who I meet, per se. But, you know, there's a few more, I'm sure.

So I wore out Tommy Hopkins tape tapes, right? And I turned in. I turned in my lemon insurance card. And I think everybody needs this. And feel free to say it with me. Tom had a thing that he used to make us remember, and it was called the success salesperson's creed. Do you remember it? I am not judged by the number of times I succeed, but I am judged by the number of times I fail. And the number of times I succeed is in direct proportion to the number of times I fail and keep trying.

Yep, there you go.

So, yeah, just so you know, I am, like, all in with you with Tommy. He was. I used to drive around 465 in Indianapolis as a young realtor, and I would just. I would just listen to, you know, closing the sale. Closing sale, and a lot of. And I have this thing called the source of sales program, which is. Which was. He helped me create. And it's for real estate agents, but not to promote my stuff. Let's get back to you. When we look at the real estate business today, and this, I'm sure, would apply many places. What do you think the biggest mistakes that the brokers, the heads of real estate are making and the agents are making? What do you go, Gosh, people need to stop doing that or looking at it this way.

Yeah, well, I think, you know, there's a couple different pieces there. One, I think a lot of managing brokers are salespeople who likely weren't really set up to truly succeed as managing brokers, meaning that most managing brokers would have made more money, would have been able to put more money away, would have been able to actually build A retirement if they just leveraged their sales career rather than going down the path of actually being the managing broker. And obviously there's some that have done.

Well, but I call them the most underappreciated and underpaid professionals in America. I mean, I love sales managers. Probably the worst job in America. All right, go ahead.

Yeah, so it's certainly, you know, you're having to compete in a space, especially if you're running a bricks and mortar based operation where I call it the nuclear arms race of real estate, which is that if I have a, I'll just say a Windermere office, which is here locally, and Somebody puts a ReMax office across the street and somebody else puts a Coldwell Banker office across the street and one person adds this amenity. They've got big screens in the boardroom. Well, guess what? Everybody's got to put big screens in the boardroom. You know, if they put, if they allow people to come in and use all the desks for free, everybody's got to give all the. So the managing broker is basically screwed because, you know, they're in this sort of arms race of trying to figure out how to keep their agents in their office versus somebody else. So if somebody offers better split or somebody does this or somebody's that, it's just a really tough game to be in that business. The second part is that I think there's still a few broker owners that still believe that their brand is the most important brand and they struggle with their real estate agents. I talked to an agent, probably going to come with us, their team here, but they were at one of the ones that I mentioned and the managing broker didn't like that that agent brand was competing with the brokerage. And so as a result they moved to another brand and now they're going to come to exp. But the reality is that we are as broker owners there to facilitate agents building their financial future. And if that's not our primary goal and that's not our primary mission, then we're really missing the boat as broker owner. Because that's really the only, only thing that's important to an agent is what am I doing to help me as an agent secure my long term financial future, whether it be in the short term lead generation, lead conversion, or thinking about how do I run my business as a business. So that would be the broker owner piece.

Yeah, the. I think, you know, one of the most beautiful things. It takes a humble man. It takes somebody with foresight. Every agent, every 30, every one of those 35,000 agents as an owner in that company. And I think that's the secret sauce.

Of exp, because it is, you know, there was a couple things that eluded me as an agent. So I started as an agent at Prudential. I went to the broker owner at the time and asked if I could get ownership and he said no. And then I went to Keller and I was at Keller for a little over three years and I wanted to buy a significant stake in the office. They offered me 1%.

Oh, how nice.

And with that 1% there was actually a whole bunch of stuff I had to agree not to ever do, including things like I couldn't compete with the brokerage. If I started a brokerage for a period of two or three years with a competing brokerage, I'm like, so I'm like, it would be crazy for me for 1% to sign that agreement. So for me, I always wanted to have ownership. So when we started exp, I call myself a focus group of one, meaning that if it was important to me that I want to add it into the model. And so the first part was, and by the way, I'm not, I don't want to beat up any brands. But you know, the reality is I have a history. And one of them was I was at Keller and I love the concept of their profit share model. Their profit share model made total sense to me. And when I saw it versus we were looking at ReMax or Keller at the time when I saw the profit share model, I'm going, I'm going to build my team here because I can create some residual income. The challenge was after three years and 184 people, it turned out that I hadn't calculated how many unprofitable real estate offices there are in the Keller system or any system and its profit share. And if there's no profit, there's nothing shared. So with 184 people, I had $6,000 in income from that in my, in 2006. So 2007, like I can hire a broker for way less than I paid in, which was about 115,000 at one office. And I literally came back after seeing my 1099, 2006. I literally said if we ever build a company, we're going to do revenue share, not profit share. I made the follow on statement is that even a mediocre management team that understands their cost to run a business should be able to figure out a way to at least break even. I figured if we could create a break even Model, I'd go out and recruit and I get the revenue share. That, for me, made way more sense than the profit share model. Some people, it works for, some people done really well with it. You know, there are profitable offices, but the ones that my agents were affiliated with wasn't that profitable. So that was kind of one of the things of profit, revenue share versus and then. And then the ability to get equity. And then the other piece I ran, I actually was a glutton for punishment. I ran six real estate teams simultaneously.

Oh, my God.

So I started as an agent in 2002 on a team. I started my first team in 2004. And by 2006, I had six real estate teams. So Bellingham, Seattle, Portland, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Arizona, Nashville, Tennessee. And they had two or three mini teams that were sort of incubating. But as a result, I was in the top 50 nationally with Keller with that model. But I had to go out and I had to go negotiate with each of the team leaders, because primarily on the Keller system, I had to negotiate with the team leaders to allow my agents to be in their office and to some extent, compete with the agents in that local office and then send referral fees back to Bellingham, Washington, where I was. And that really just aggravated them to no end. And so one thing I wanted to solve for was how do I build a nationwide team and not have to deal with all the politics that went with what we had to deal with back then?

I love it. So I'm going to respect your time. But I got one more thing I want you to talk about. From what I've seen, the biggest teams and some large brokerages and the top agents, they are absolutely. You are attracting the top, the cream of the crop in real estate. Obviously, the best of the best of everybody in the country probably is getting a personal phone call from you. And you've talked to them. Talk to me about, you know, you don't need to name them, but, like, what's the attitude of those super producer, super team leaders and huge brokerages that go, yeah, we see the vision. We're moving on. Just a little capsulation of here. Let me tell you, here's what they're seeing. Here's why they're coming to exp. And here's what's going on.

Yeah. So ironically, you know, I'm an introvert by nature. You might not know. You not be able to tell that. But that's one of the reasons why I forced myself into sales, because I knew how much of an introvert I am, and I still am an introvert, which to some extent means I'm more of a systems guy. So I'm really about putting in systems. And I've always sort of operated from kind of a field of dreams perspective. If you build it, they will come. So if I put on all the ingredients, eventually we're going to attract some of those folks. So to be honest, I haven't had as many of those conversations as you would think.

Okay.

Certainly I meet them at events, I'll run into them. A lot of times they're reaching out to me just to pick my brain on different things. But there's a lot of really amazing leaders, some of the best of the best where I haven't spent a whole bunch of one on one time with them. We've got 700 plus icon agents in exp.

Yeah.

And then we've got, you know, I don't know how many teams doing over $100 million a year in production, but it's a lot. Like there's a lot of teams doing over $100 million a year.

It's crazy. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.

Yeah. And if you, if, if you don't, if you're not in real estate, $100 million a year in production is a lot of freaking production.

That's an office for a lot of people.

It is, yeah. So it's a, it's a lot. And we've literally got, you know, I don't want to say we. I know it's probably not in every state that we have it, but you know, you look at California, I mean, the number of multi hundred million dollar producers from Kyle Whissel to Branko to Dan Beer to, you know, to, you know, and I don't even know all of them. I don't, I don't want to state too many names because I might, I'm going to leave some off.

Right.

But there's a ton of these really big producers and you can there in Texas, Florida, all over the country you've got all these really, really massive producers. And the big thing for us was we wanted to build the infrastructure that when agents looked at it, they would literally have to do like this big double take. And I think Jay kinder said it best. Once you see exp, you can't unsee it. So that's the thing that I wanted a mega agent to look at our model to be able to sort of make a business decision and realize that if they didn't come, they were making a mistake. And that doesn't mean that everybody doesn't want to come. A lot of people are saying I'm stuck. I own offices with this brand or I have financial reasons why I can't make the move. And literally I have folks that go, man, if I could make the move, I would be with you guys today. But I can't for this, this and this reason. They're real reason. Like they literally have to almost declare bankruptcy to actually come over because of the contractual relationships they have. But, but the masterminding. I was just on Facebook the other day. I'll just give you this quick little story. I think it was on Wednesday and I literally saw top teams. John Tsai, one of the top teams in Vancouver, Canada was on there with Denise Mai is her name. One of the most positive individuals that I've ever heard speak. But they're having a little talk about how they're running a multi hundred million dollar operation in Vancouver. And then I go from there to talking to Veronica Figueroa. I was on a Facebook live and I went through and then Jay kinder and forget who else but I literally was going through and just on my Facebook feed we literally have a personal development company called Exp that literally gives back to the industry with positive uplifting. How do you build your business? And I was thinking about the fact that no other brand has that type of face on a social media. You don't see it from. Again, I don't not pointing fingers at these guys. But like you don't see this happen with Coldwell Banker agents. You don't see it happen with ReMax agents. You know, occasionally you might see a little bit with, with Keller Williams but even that's pretty small percentage wise. But Exp, it's a whole different country and it's a whole different flavor of Kool Aid, if you want to call it that.

Yeah, that's good. Boy, I tell you, you have been so fun to talk to, but we're going to have to do what our gappers love and that is called knowledge through the decades. And so what we are going to do one. One word or one sentence? It's a little on the spot. We're a highly edited podcast so in the event you become blank, we'll edit it out. Glenn, don't worry, we'll only get the best thing. And so what we always like to say is what was the attitude lesson at each decade of your life? But we start with childbirth, which is a little bit crazy. So I know you probably don't remember being Born. But when you think of the attitude lesson of a newborn baby, what do you think that lesson is?

You know, I do get a story, though, from my parents, so they tell me that I used to. I would walk up to the beehive boxes and I would knock on them and ask if anybody was home. So. So I think I was just destined for real estate. So is anybody home? That was probably my first phrase. Yeah.

Attitude lesson. Don't be afraid to knock when you're a newborn baby. Right.

There you go. Don't be afraid to knock on doors. If I go forward again, probably the next one was 10 years old, so.

Yeah, 10 years old. So I want you to think you're what, third? Fourth grade. You remember being in third and fourth. Fourth grade. What do you remember learning in third and fourth grade when you were 10, do you remember your teacher? Put yourself back there. What was going on there?

Yeah, you know, it was soccer, and it was. There was this show called In Search of Excellence. They used to play in school, had this theme from one of my favorite artists over the years, Pat Metheny. So I remember those being very formative and very like, sort of like soccer and team sports and then sort of the vision of the future.

I love it. I love it. And then you graduate from high school. Did you go to college?

I did, yeah. I is a college dropout.

Okay. So am I. So it's all good. So do you remember being 20, or do you remember your 21st birthday? What was going on and what do you think the lesson, the attitude lesson from being 20 was for you?

Yeah. So 20, I was in Phoenix, Arizona. Just got. Actually totaled my car just before I turned 21. And then I became a stockbroker in Las Vegas when I was 21 years old.

Oh, my gosh.

So if you ever watch the movie Boiler Room, I was exposed to that at 21 and realized I didn't want to be a part of that. But I really enjoyed stocks and investments, so I've been an avid investor ever since. But informatively, it was, don't be involved with scammy companies.

Right. Yeah. Boiler Room. I'll have to put that on the watch list. So then you get out of Las Vegas, and I'm guessing at 30, your. Your things are starting to happen for you. What was your attitude lesson? You know, do you remember your 30th birthday? Who was around and. And what do you go? You know what? Yeah, when I'm 30, here's. Here's what I figured out.

Yeah. So what I'M right. In that point in time, I was starting a company called eShippers.com. yeah, that was a good company, logistics company and also was doing some stuff. Oh, I know what, I know what it was. So Ray Spots was a mentor of mine and he was big on postcard mailing and so he would do a thousand postcards and it's. And he would test a thousand postcards and he was waiting for a postcard that pulled 5 to 10x any other postcard. And so once you find something that works. Leverage. I won't use the word he used, but leverage the heck out of it.

Yes, yes. Great message, great thoughts. Okay, so then you're 40, right? And I know how old our company is, I know how old you are, but I'm guessing you started going there's more or something. Do you remember 40? What's your attitude lesson there? And what was going through your brain?

Well, I've stated it before but you know, if I ever build a real estate brokerage, it's revenue share, non profit share. So that was, that was that. And that was a big driver for me. That was a huge. So I've always had a fire in the belly. I've always been sort of kind of internally a fierce competitor. And so that was one that literally was, if we do something, this is what it's got to have in it. That was 40 and started exp when we're 42.

Yeah. And I think the revenue share, I get that, but it's like the meaning behind the rev share is no, we're in it for everybody here. There's not a king and everybody's going to get a piece. And I just think the bigger. I mean, I'm sure all 35,000 exp agents are really appreciative of the revenue share. But I think it's the message behind the revenue share that resonates and that gets people in their heart and in their gut that work well.

And that is, you know, quite frankly, what I realized day one when I got into real estate is I didn't own a business. The business owned me. And having come from business mentors and understanding concepts like you need to be putting yourself on salary and that you need to actually run it through, like run a business. And it's gotta be scalable and it's gotta be. You've gotta be able to exit out of the business. The businesses gotta be able to be. To run like. So I never called myself Glenn Sanford Real Estate Team. Nothing wrong with that. But I just felt that Most people wouldn't want to join an ego. They wanted to join a concept. So we were Buyer Tours. Real Buyer Tours team. Buyer Tours Real estate team, man. Powerful.

That's good. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. That's so good.

Yeah. So I always. I wanted to make sure that whatever it was was saleable. And then the other piece is, as an agent, I wanted an exit strategy, and it didn't exist out there. And like I said, if EXP existed and I could have joined as an agent, even though I'm doing very well now with exp, I would have much preferred building my real estate business on EXP than starting and running exp.

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Okay. So we're gonna get into the last decade. You're still a young man. I can't believe you're very young and very accomplished. I'm guessing you had a great 50th birthday. Exp started really popping probably right when you were 50. Tell us what the attitude lesson is today for you that our gappers can listen to. And if you would, after that attitude lesson, speak to our listeners who are standing at that bridge wanting to cross it. So, number one, what's your attitude lesson from 50? And then what's your message of hope for those who are listening?

I think the attitude message is probably anything worth doing is worth doing badly at first. And so for me, I was willing to make a mess. I was willing to go out there and do things. I think even at 50, I mean, we were at. This is 2016. So we're like approaching 2,400 agents maybe in 2016. And we were going through this huge curve, and we had so many people in the company, some being consultants, some being directors, literally saying, you're over skiing your ski tips. You're going to have to slow down. And I'm like, you know, what's the phrase? You know, when in hell, what's the best way? Just keep on going, you know? So we were in hell, and it was like, it's messy. Let's keep on going. Let's not slow down what we're doing. And so once something's working, it's almost like that old mentor also said, just keep on leaning in and you'll figure it out.

I love it. I love it. And then just any. Any final words to maybe the real estate agent that's failing, maybe the business owner that's going under, maybe a person in relationship that's not doing good. What's. Do you have a message of hope. Is there, Is there a mantra that you live by? What's a word of encouragement that you can give our people that aren't look at. They're not in your position, but they sure would love to be someday?

Yeah, I think getting clear on your intentions. So wherever you're at, it's wherever you're at, just own that. And if it's a great place, awesome. If it's not a great place, own it. You can't make a change in anything that you're doing unless you accept where you're at right now and get real with that. So if things aren't going well, don't make excuses for it. Own it. And once you own it now, you can accept the new perfect present that you're in and make the changes for the future.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, that was Glenn Sanford, founder and CEO of EXP Realty, one of the biggest innovators in the real estate brokerage business, one of the biggest influencers in the real estate brokerage business. Glenn, we are so happy and proud of you, and we're so proud that you came to the Gap to share with all of us, and we just can't thank you enough. Thank you so much.

Awesome. Thanks, Glenn.

We'll see you, buddy. This podcast is a part of the C Suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit c suiteradio.com.