Ep38 - Indiana Football Head Coach, Tom Allen

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He said this and it's never left me that conviction driven leadership is based off a vision of perfection. And I've used that as a driving force for everything that I do, football wise. In terms of that vision of what you want to create in a program, in a scheme, in a family. And when you see that and you know what it's supposed to look like, man, you just relentlessly pursue that until you get it the way it's supposed to be.

Yet attitude means how can I proactively change the way I think? How can I proactively increase my life? How can I proactively create better relationships and better work situations for me to enjoy it and welcome to the Gap, the Get Attitude Podcast. The Gap. Bridging the gap from who you are to who you want to become. And bridging the gap from where you are to where you want to be. Hello, my name is Glenn Bill, founder of the University of Attitude, keynote speaker and author of the ABCs of Attitude. I've been fortunate enough to help tens of thousands of people all over the nation Get Attitude. Attitude. The secret formula to success in your business, in your life, in your relationships. And this podcast will help you get yours. So let's get some. I want to welcome everybody. Please remember to subscribe, rate and review. Today we are so privileged to have one of what I believe is the best motivators in the Big Ten, if not the nation. A man that I followed as a high school coach. And I'm just so honored to have this gentleman. We're going to pull up a little clip real quick. The great Tom Allen, head coach of Indiana Football.

The core values of who we are. It's Leo stands for Love each other. Here's why that's such a big deal. Because every single person is affected by those three words. Everybody. Every coach, everybody, every player, everything you do. That's why Leo is so huge. Because love has got nothing to do with you. When you choose to love somebody, you choose to accept all that goes with it.

All right? And Coach Allen, thank you for being here on the Get Attitude podcast and welcome.

Excited to be on your show. Appreciate you having me?

Yeah. That's great. That's just such a moving video. Who gave you the idea for Leo?

You know, it's just been something over time that I've just really latched onto. You know, I've been such a big believer in relationship building in the coaching profession. You know, my dad was my high school coach. I saw the impact that he had as I was growing up and the players would come back years and years later and. And it was always about the relationships that he had formed with those guys and they had formed with each other that made a team special, made the experience very, very special. So start coaching high school football. For my first 15 years of my career, and I'd say it was during that time, you know, I just started realizing and recognizing if you want to build something special, you better build a group of guys to love each other, care about each other, and make it about the guys around you, not about yourself. And that's what Leo is all about to me is a selfless mindset that I don't care who gets credit because it's not about me. And so that's just. I've just learned over time that if you want to build any organization that has value, that can do something special, something so much bigger than you that you got to get your focus off yourself and your focus on those around you, and that's not what we do naturally. We naturally make it about ourselves for sure, but it's a conscious choice that you make, and I think it's a life changing choice that you make when you choose to love the people around you.

Yeah, that's fantastic. We Talked about the 10 basic attitude boosters that we promote on this show, and you've already hit four of them, which is fantastic. We are focusing on booster number seven, grow or die. So when we talk about building, certainly growing is part of that. You've been working with young men for all your life, obviously. Talk to me about your perspective of growth. What does it mean to growth? What's the value of growth and what's your main focus when we talk about this thing called growing?

Well, it's a key component, you know, when we talk about, you know, bringing a young man to Indiana or to go to any school, it's about player development, which is growth. You know, you want to be able to take them from where they are. You want to find young men that have a base level of talent, they have a base level of quality value, things you're looking for in a young man. And then you want to Build off of that. You want to grow. Grow him as a person, grow him as a student athlete, grow him as a man. And ultimately, eventually on the football field, you wanted to see that growth as well. So, to me, we so much focused on the habits that you form on a daily basis that, to me, determines the growth, that determines the development. And, you know, we've even been challenged through this difficult time of. Of all the isolation that our guys have been placed into and getting on a regular routine. This is something we did from the very beginning of the pandemic was, hey, what does your daily schedule look like? What are your daily habits that you're forming right now while you're maybe in a different environment than you used to be in in regards to this time of year, and what does that look like? And that's going to determine how you grow. If you want to create change in your life, you want to really, truly grow as a. Whatever area that you want to focus on, you got to change what you do every day. And that, to me, is the focus of what we try to do in our program. And it's about accountability, toughness, and love. We say those are the three things that are branded within our core values. They're branded by the phrase leo, love each other, but those three things. And that's how you grow as an individual. And to me, you know, that's what we're gauged off of as a coach, is how can you bring out the greatness that's within a person? Can you allow them to become all that they were created to be? And to me, that's what our number one responsibility is as coaches, is to develop these young men first as an individual with your character and leadership development, and then the ability to do a tremendous job academically. And then it shows up with how you perform on the field. And that'll take you as far as your health will be able to take you if you can stay healthy and your talent level. But to me, you better come to Indiana and expect to be challenged to grow on a consistent basis.

I love it. Now, obviously, we are on the Get Attitude podcast, and the advice you just gave is great for people in business. It's great for people in relationships. A lot of people come to our podcast because they're standing at that bridge. It might be a personal relationship. It may be a financial reversal. It may be a, I just got fired from my job, and I gotta start something new. Two questions. Number one, what does attitude mean to you? And how would you define it? And number two, when we think of those people that are walking on the beach, that are driving in their cars, that are disheartened and discouraged because you know what, Something just changed in their life. What's your advice to them?

Well, first of all, how we define it, you know, to me, it's how you talk to yourself. You know, it's the mindset that you bring every single day. You know, because I intentionally ask our players, you know, what you thinking today, not how are you feeling, but what are you thinking? Because our minds can be so, so powerful in either direction, positive or negative. And so when I came to Indiana, and I've gone to several places, outside of maybe two programs that I've been a part of in my 28 years of coaching, most places have not been winning. When I arrived, we had to create change. We had to be able to do things that create a different outcome. Ben Davis was one of those that was. They were winning when I got there, and a place like Wabash, they were winning when I got there. But most of the colleges I've been at, the other two high schools I was at, they were not. And so we had to create the change. And so it's been so much about mindset, and to me, that is so just geared in and the mindset that you have that drives your expectations and your beliefs. Because to me, if somebody doesn't believe in what they can become or what they're going to do, which once again is a choice, all these are choices, then you got no chance. And so when I came to Indiana, you know, I had a vision for what I felt like we could do here. And not everybody agreed with me, not everybody believed with me, you know, and I gave a great challenge to our team. And first of all, when I was the defense coordinator and the way I challenged that side of the football and then it carried over to the whole team, I was basically, if you don't believe in what we're doing here, then you just need to leave. You know, it's not personal. I don't dislike it. I'll help you find a new home. I'll help you find a new job if you're a coach. But I want to. I want to. I want a football team. I want a coaching staff that believes. And so, once again, you know, it's. It's something you control. Before there's a reality, there's mentality. If you don't believe in yourself, why should anybody else? But that's mindset, that's attitude, and to me, that's what drives everything. And since you can control it, it's something that I'm going to spend a ton of time investing in. If it's something you can't control, that creates frustration because I can't do anything about it. But I have complete control over my attitude and my effort. So because I have complete control of that, there's no excuses. And the bottom line is, that's why we talk about accountability. You set those standards, you set those expectations that you have in your program, and then you hold people to those standards on a daily basis. And so defining is what I just talked about, and that just becomes such a huge part of who you become as a program, as an organization, even as a family, is what do you truly believe about yourself and what you can develop into.

You, as well as me, were fortunate enough to have a father who was a football coach. I'm guessing that your parents were probably your very first attitude coaches. I'd love to know, or teachers, what are some of the. And I'm sure you've probably already touched on them, some of the philosophies. What has stuck with you from your first attitude coaches? And if it wasn't your parents, we'd love to know who it was. But what's been inside of you that has come through from those great people?

Well, it was my parents. Both my mom and my dad played such a huge part of my life and our development, and I'm blessed to still have them with us today and they're not getting any younger. But that was a. It was a driving force for me to want to come home at this stage of my career and to be able to be closer to them and my family, be close to them. And so, you know, to me, the bottom line, from the very beginning, knowing my dad, I mean, he was so much into just staying with whatever you do. I mean, we weren't allowed to quit anything. We weren't allowed to whatever we said we were going to do. I mean, it was just. That was it. And there was no excuses, pretty, no nonsense. My dad was a tough guy on us and held us to high standards of our work ethic and taught us how you treat people. But once again, those are all things that you can control. And how you get up every the early morning ride. I always talked about he never wanted us to be sleeping in. And I was like, man, dad, I'm 12. You want to be able to sleep in sometimes. But no, that was just not the way he was wired. It was just like, man, you're Just wasting time when you're in there doing that, you know, I can rest when I'm older kind of mindset. But that work ethic and the ability just to stay with whatever you do is a powerful thing. I mean, because, you know, we use the word perseverance so much in our program and grit has become such a huge. It was our one word for 2019, which is perseverance and passion towards a long term goal. That's just staying with it. And to me that's something that is learned and you have to be, you know, that's the whole, hey, I'm not going to let you quit something. You're going to start something, you're going to finish it, you're going to leave a place better than you found it, you know. My dad was not only a teacher and a coach, but he was a licensed carpenter. So the whole summer, my whole life growing up, even into college, we did carpenter work in the summertime. And he wanted to teach us how to work and to be able to, you know, not only give you a skill, but also just the physical labor, the physical toughness that it takes. And we'd have to do that all day long and then we'd go do our workouts for whatever sport we were playing or whatever sport we were training for, whatever, like I said all the way through college. And that's how we paid for college. And so. But those were valuable lessons that we had to learn and getting up early and sometimes working, you know, daylight till dark and when we needed to and then and still just finding a way to, once again, no excuse, you got to go get your workout in. I had many workouts when I was in college where I was doing my running and lifting at, you know, 9, 10 o' clock at night after a full day working, whether it was roofing or, you know, painting or building a garage or any kind of carpenter work that we were doing for those summers and those projects. And so. But those are valuable lessons that have never left me, you know, and those are things. And it was obviously a strong faith based upbringing, you know, about having living a life of principle and being a man of your word and being able to be a person that can be depended upon and counted upon, you know, as a teammate, as a coach, as a part of a special group, because that trust piece is such a huge part of building something special. All those things are what I feel my dad taught me from, from the earliest till to this day. And I'm still learning from him.

Yeah, the perseverance Thing one of my favorite sayings is adversity is the mother of perseverance. If you want to be a person of perseverance, you're going to have to fight through adversity. And booster number eight is to love and embrace all the adversity that happens. So, gappers, you heard it here first from coach Allen that perseverance and grit is something that can help you bridge the gap from where you are to where you want to be. Now look at Behind Every Good man's a good woman. So talk to me about what did your mother do and what did you learn from her?

Well, you know, we were fortunate. You know, my dad, like I said, was a teacher and a coach, and so she stayed home with us. And so she was the one that really, you know, obviously dad was with us quite a bit, but she was with us all the time, you know, and just the ability to. She was a prayer warrior for us. Just support us in every possible thing that we did and taking you to practice, picking you up for practice, and always being with you. And I would say, hold us accountable with how we treat people, how we treat them. There was four of us. I had an older brother, older sister, and a younger sister. So four children raised in our home and just being able to learn how to be a person that cared about others and pray for people and pray for us and. And held us accountable for the choices that we made and the people that we hang out with. And I say it all the time. We're part of the books we read, music we listen to and who we hang out with. And I was taught that at a young age. You know, what do you fill your mind with, who you associate with, that's who you become. I believe that we challenge our coaches about that even to this day, our players that to this day. I learned that from being raised in my home that I was raised in and very careful about that, you know, who we were friends with. And we always had the. You know, I always think about, you know, even at a young age, back when we didn't have all these other video games and social media things, I mean, we just played outside, you know, so. And it was one thing we always had was if I was going to go from, you know, one house, if I was at one friend's house, and that's where I told my mom I was going to be, then I literally, I had to come home and say, we're going to go somewhere else. You know, it's kind of a pain, but it was accountability I was told to do that. I'll never forget. There was times when I didn't, and trust me, it wasn't pretty, so I wasn't going to get away with it, you know, and so. But that, those little things, you don't forget that kind of stuff, you know, and you. Goes back to being, hey, you tell me you're going to do this, this is what you're going to do. And if you don't, then you're going to be held accountable, you know. And so the bottom line is those are the kind of things that, that, that I know have made me who I am today. And you don't lose that, you know, you don't lose the work ethic that you develop as a young person. You don't lose the value of being a man of your word and how you treat people. I thought my dad, he had a tremendous heart for people, so empathetic for those around him and the players that he coached and the homes they came from and all the different challenges they may have had, and those are kind of things that have never, never left me. And that's what. And Leo is all part of all those things. And so, because once again, you choose how you view other people and how you treat them and how you, you know, it causes you to be a person that, that has a sensitive heart for those around you, and that allows you to be real and be genuine to these players who come to Indiana to have fulfill these big dreams. But at the end of the day, they're just young people looking for someone that believe in them, care about them, love them, and give them some tremendous direction and accountability.

Now, I know DNA means a lot to me, and I believe that you can go back. I'm wondering if you knew Grandpa Allen, what did he do and what did he teach you?

You know, my grandpa was a carpenter, you know. Wow, Tougher than nails, you know, so.

Was Jesus or Joseph was right. But go ahead. I'm sorry. Yes, go ahead.

There's no doubt. And so he tough. Once again, just family first. Very, very consistent. Simple in a lot of ways. Didn't stray far from home, you know, was always in that, you know, area and believed in that, believed in hard work, toughness, how you. Your word is your. Is your bond. It's who you are. It should be the thing that you value the most. When you say something, when you agree to something, that's what it is, the work ethic. I think those things, to me, stick out. And just the emphasis on family, you know, and the Fact that at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, you got two things. You got your faith and you got your family. And so you better make those things a priority. And I tell our team this all the time. I said, I want you guys to understand that everybody talks about, you know, when they get to the end of all this, you know, they're going to be. They're worried about. They're not worried about their, you know, 401ks and the house they live in, the cars they drive. It's their faith and their family. That's what's going to. So why wait till then. Why wait till the end to. To make it a priority, make it a focus. And so those are the things that my grandpa taught me. And, you know, he would be. He's passed on, but he would be so unbelievably thrilled to know that I was the head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers. That's what makes this so special to me. It's deep. My family, both sides, are both from Indiana, born and raised here. And I got such a big. My dad's the oldest of 10 and my mom's the second youngest of eight. So I got 32 aunts and uncles. Oh, yeah. Massive family. Tons of cousins, second cousins. And just a huge family that I got a lot of pride in being from Indiana and being a part of this and wanting to build something special here because this is my home.

Yeah, that's great. And so what was your. Was your grandpa's name Tom as well?

Yeah, his name was Nolan.

Nolan.

Interestingly, here's how it works. So my dad's name is Nolan Thomas Allen.

Okay.

And my name is Thomas Edward Allen.

Okay.

My son is named after my dad, so my son is named Nolan Thomas. So everybody calls my dad Tom. They call me Tommy, and we call our son Thomas. That's how we keep them all straight.

Now, did your son play at iu?

He's playing there right now.

Okay, well, good. What's that like coaching him? And what year is he? And I'm sure that's just got to be so fulfilling.

It's just a huge blessing. He's. He's a. He'll be a red shirt junior in the fall, and he's. He was, fortunately, graduated here at the end of this, this summer, so he's graduated three and a half years and now he's getting ready his master's degree here. So he's number 44. He's a linebacker. And so it's just a huge you know, I played for my dad. He played for. He's playing for his dad. And so that's pretty special. You know, it's not easy. It's harder than people think. I think it's probably harder on the player than it is the dad, but it's also. It's tough both directions. But at the same time, he's been given a tremendous opportunity. He works his tail off and just really proud of him, you know, and just for my dad to be able to come here and see both of us watch him play and watch me coaches is pretty special. So it's a neat family affair for us in our household.

Yeah, that's. I coached all three of my kids at Bishop Chittard High School. So I know the dynamic there. That's going. That's going on. When you think of. Well, number one was Rex Peckinpah. Coach Peckinpah there back when you were there?

He was my wrestling coach, yes, sir.

Okay. Okay. So I wanted to touch on this because one of my boys wrestled up at Central Michigan. Talk to me about. I love football. I think football is the greatest team sport ever. What did that sport of wrestling teach you?

Well, I wrestled for 13 years. You know, I wrestled all through high school and college and played both sports and college football and wrestling. What an unbelievable sport. I mean, so much discipline, the toughness that you have to have, both physical and mental. You know, I always. You get to the point where you have to cut weight. You know, I Even in college I wrestled at 190, and I played about 215. So I had to lose £25 every off season. You know, when I go.

Right.

And, you know, obviously those seasons back. Back to each other. So that was always challenging. But just the, you know, when I was. When I started wrestling in sixth grade and then get in seventh grade and eighth grade, your body starts changing. It's just such an unbelievably physically demanding sport.

Yes.

This is why I always tell people it ain't a whole lot of. Wrestling is not a whole lot of fun unless you have some success at it. Getting your tail whooped on a daily basis. And then all the practices, I mean, going out shooting baskets, playing catch, you know, shagging fly balls, taking bat practice. That's fun. Wrestling for two hours and climbing. We used to climb rope, you know, back in the day and all the stuff that we did. And Coach Peckinpah was my high school coach, as I mentioned. I mean, just so demanding. And we, you know, we. At Newcastle, we got that Big old gym. So we would have to run laps around the track. Our wrestling room was right outside the right to the side of the track. And you got all those steps. You could either bear crawl up and down or run up and down. And, and so, I mean it was physically hard. I mean it was just tough. And so I was blessed to have a lot of success with wrestling and, and I enjoyed it. But like I said, it's not like quote unquote fun, you know, like fun's going swimming. I mean it's tough, but it's so rewarding. And when you, when you know, you put in that one. I'll never forget when I was in high school, it was a series of, you know, when I really had a chance to really get in phenomenal shape. And probably at my highest level of before I went to college of how I was competing and getting ready for the state finals and all that. I mean, it was a tremendously rewarding experience to know, man, if you can do that, you can do about anything, you know. And that's why I think that it's just a great, great sport to develop the qualities. That grit piece you talk about, grit. I mean that is, if you want to be a guy that's got grit, you go wrestle and then you get into college. It's a whole nother level, you know, and it's really, really hard. And it's. You're wrestling against a lot of, you know, very mature individuals and you got great. They're very well coached. And I wrestle for Ben Peterson in college. He's an Olympic gold silver medalist and had a great experience in college wrestling for him and then playing football for Terry Price. Just two, just high quality men. But just the sport of wrestling just teaches you so many valuable life lessons. That's why I encourage as many guys to wrestle. I think it's a great carryover for football. When I find out that a recruit is a wrestler, man, his stock goes up in my mind because I just feel like there's just so many great qualities that I know I'm going to get when I get a wrestler. You know, from a physical perspective, a mental perspective, and how he has to train and prepare because it just takes so much discipline to be a wrestler. I don't care who you are, where you are, whatever you do. So it's a awesome, awesome sport.

Well, and coming from the stable of Coach Peckinpah and Newcastle wrestling, that, that's a for real program, that's competitive. Were you a state finalist then or a state Champ or I was.

I didn't win my senior year. I finished fourth, 189, and I made it to the Final Four. And, yeah, I was right there in the hunt. So it was an awesome experience. And Coach Peckinpah was a tremendous mentor of mine, and he was assistant football coach when I was younger while my dad's staff and they coached together. So I know Coach Peckinpah since I was a little boy, and they eventually wrestled for him. But he's one of my heroes, one of my guys that I look up to, and he's been such a great, you know, mentor for me. And, you know, he gave me the book called the Edge that was written. It was a wrestling book, and it was from, I think, St. Edwards, I think, in Ohio, the coach there, and he wrote in the front of that. I've always sitting here in my office to this day. And he just, you know, he's one of those guys that believed in me, that helped shape me, and I wouldn't be here without men like him that come along and helped mold me as a. As a young person and into the man that God allowed me to be. So I really appreciate Coach Peck for all he's done for me.

Yeah, that's. That's great. I was. We were fortunate. We had coach Jim Humphrey and coach Tom Borelli. I don't know if you know, either of those or both of them.

Yeah.

Unbelievable. Men, let's talk about. Let's talk about the recruit first. You know, recruits are standing at the bridge. They're wanting to bridge the gap from who they are to who they want to become, from where they are to where they want to be. When you look into the eyes and the soul and the heart of a recruit, do you measure attitude? Do you look for attitude? How does attitude show up in a young man that is wanting to come or that you want to come? And how do you know when this ain't going to be the right fit? I'd love to hear some examples of that.

Well, I tell you what, it's huge. And that's part of the challenge of recruiting, is figuring out the attitude and character of a young man, because that, to me, is going to be the difference. You know, there's a base level of talent that I believe you have to have to play in the Big Ten, and we got to figure that out. And there's a lot of measurables that you can use for that, and you watch the film, but it's what's on the inside, you know, it's what makes them who they are. And we talk about grit a lot. You know, how do you, how do you figure out if a young man has grit? That's the one quality that we feel like we're looking for. That's going to allow them to be successful because adversity is going to come. It's not if, it's when. And so you look for in their past, how are they, how were they raised? What kind of home were they raised in? You know, have they had to overcome injuries? Have they had to. Do they play multiple sports? Do they. Are they put in positions where they have to compete in different environments rather than just be training for one sport year round? I want to see multi sport guys. I think that that to me means a lot and I really believe that the bottom line is, is that you better do your homework and. Because those are things that don't just show up when you watch a film for the first few times. But I will say that as you, it's about relationships. So when you know these high school coaches so well. Yeah. And you know, the people that are connected to these recruits so well, you kind of start piecing it together. Is this the kind man, the kind of young man that's going to fit? Because I tell this all the time, it's about finding the fits. I mean, we got to find great fits for Indiana because it's always about projecting. We're a developmental program, so we got to take a young man that's a junior in high school, maybe a sophomore in high school and project. What's he going to look like two and three years from now? What's it going to look like physically? What's he going to look like mentally? And what kind of young man is he going to be once he gets on our campus? Because to me, you know, it's not the guy that always has the most natural talent that's going to end up being your best players three and four years from now. It's the kid that has character and the kid that has grit. Because those two things allow them to. The young men that have character and grit, they keep getting better every single year. They buy into the culture of your program. They buy into Leo. They care for the people around them. They do the little things right. They go to class, they go to the study tables that we have them go to. That's not an option here. I mean, we don't say, hey, you can go to class when you feel like it. You're going to class. Every time that class is in session, period. Whether the rest of the classes feels that way or not, that does not matter. And so. But you gotta find. So here's what we're looking for. Guys are tough, smart, and dependable. Those three qualities. And when I say smart, it's not that you get straight A's, that you care about school. School is important to you. All right, the toughness piece. You better find a kid that's physically, mentally tough and dependable. That goes to the character, that goes to the grit. Is he going to be able to fight through? Here's what I tell guys. It's going to get hard. There's going to be times when you're going to feel like going home. There's going to be times when things don't go your way. What are you going to do? Well, if I get a kid here that he knows in his heart that this is where he's supposed to be, that he prayed about this, that this we align with him, his family aligns with us, and he knows this is where I'm supposed to be. So when things get hard, and they're going to get hard, things are going to go against you. You're going to stay, and you're going to fight. Too many kids today, I feel like they pick places for the wrong reason. When things go against them, they choose to go somewhere else or they choose to. To go a different direction. And that's not what I want. I want guys that are here for the long haul. They're going to roll their sleeves up and they're going to fight for the guys around them, and they're going to fight for the guys in front of them, and they're going to do everything they can to help us do something special here in the game. And that doesn't just happen. You got to create the environment that pulls it out of them, but you got to identify the right guys that want it. Here's what I tell people all the time. I want to find guys that want to be great, they want to be pushed. Because if I have to pull you, that means you want to go that direction and I want to go that direction that's opposite. Okay? So I will push you, I will drive you, I will motivate you every single day. But I can't pull you, okay? And so that's part of our job, is finding guys that want to be pushed, that want to be great, that want to be special, that want to do things in there that hadn't happened here in the last 25 years. Okay. I Want guys that come here with that edge about them and that mindset because that's the only way it's going to happen.

And I feel it when you guys take the stage. I feel it when I watch you, coach, and I watch you guys, and I love what you're doing there. This has been a crazy world. Things have changed. Coach, I'm going to go out on a limb here. There's no wrong answer, but I know you're going to come up with it because you're good. Let's say there's no high school football. There's no film to watch. Let's say you don't know who's who and you walk into a room and the only opportunity you have to judge who you want to recruit, because there is no film, you have the ability to ask a kid two or three questions. What I want to know is, what would be the two or three questions you would ask a kid you don't know to figure out, is this a guy that I could put on my team?

Great question. I would say this, and I would say, tell me the three most important things in your life.

Ah, good.

Okay. I will find out right away what he values. Okay. Because that's part of fit. When I find a young man. When we find a young man that fits with us and aligns with us and the things that he values match up with what we value as a program, then there's a great fit. And the second thing I'll say is, why do you love football?

Awesome. Very cool.

I want to know why he loves this game. Because if you don't love it, then when it gets hard, then it ain't going to matter. Yeah, you're looking at how much talent you got. I don't care what your 40 time is. I don't care about all that other stuff. It don't mean anything.

Now, my guess is you've asked those two questions before. And so what? Let's go to number one. Three most important things. What is that? What are the buzzwords? What are the keywords?

You know, I want to hear something about family. I want to hear something about their education. I want to hear them talk about their. They care about the kind of man that they become, you know, and so these answers can be in different pieces. You know, faith piece can be mixed into that. I talk to our players a lot about this. It doesn't. You know, faith is belief in something bigger than yourself. I know what it is for me. I challenge our players all the time. I want you to Know what you believe and. And why you believe it, you know, And I can't tell them what to believe. I don't want to tell them what to believe. You know, I want to live my life based on principles that I believe are going to allow me to live the kind of life that I. At the end of the day, when it's all said and done, I can look back on and feel good about how I live my life. Not going to be perfect, going to make mistakes. We all do. But I want to live my life by principles and values. And I use the principles of God's word to guide my life. And I use the principles of his word to be a foundation for how we have built and how we run this program. I don't tell guys they have to believe those same things. But I will tell you this. I will tell them, you better have an anchor, you better have a foundation, and it better be on something that you're able to stand upon. Because those storms are going to come, and when they come, they're going to sweep you right off your feet. You'll be able to get back up if you have a great base, great foundation, and great belief system that you have for your life. And that's why what we teach them as a man is way more than what we teach them as a football player, way more important. Because the football window is about like this. The life window is where we live and where we're going to be able to make impact that is lasting and has value. And the thing that is so awesome about what I do, that is why I feel so blessed to coach, is I can do something that I really truly love and enjoy doing as a coach. And at the same time, I can make an impact way beyond the game, way beyond this short window of time that I have with them. And that's a very rewarding and fulfilling thing. And it gives me great purpose in my life.

I'm a very faithful person. Our number one assignment from God is to evangelize. And I want to give you credit and I want to honor you because I think people know who you are. People you are not afraid to talk about faith. And that takes courage. And I just. I think it's beautiful that you're comfortable doing that. I think you do it in the right way. And I think when. Whenever anybody mentions you, they always mention your faith, whether you know it or not. That. And that's pretty damn cool. And I just want to honor you for that. Let's go to that second question. Why do you Love football. What are some of the best answers you've had, heard, and why do you love football?

Well, the best answer is, I want to hear things. I just love to compete. I love to play the game, you know, and they'll talk about, you know, you want to hear that they love to hit people and they're physical. And, you know, because those are. Those are things. If you don't. You don't like that, you don't like the contact part of this game, you're gonna. You're gonna probably struggle, you know, you're definitely gonna struggle playing here because that's a huge part of what I believe. So. But those kinds of things, I don't want to hear about themselves. I don't want to. I want them. It's about, you know, the things that matter bigger than you. That's what I want to hear about. And for me, and that's why I love the game so much, because it just. You can't hide. I mean, you can't. You know, it's. It's the principle of the, of the sower. You're going to reap what you sow. It's a biblical principle. It's a life principle. It's a. It's a principle of harvest. I mean, you sow bean seeds, you're going to. That's what you're going to reap. You know, you put corn, you're going to reap corn, you know, so it doesn't. You're going to sow good habits. You're going to reap those rewards for that. And we tell our team this even recently, so if your daily habits, ok, if they don't align with your future goals, then you better do something different. You better change what you're doing on a daily basis. You better adjust your goals, because they're not going to get you what you want. So. But that whole reaping and sowing concept to me is. Is what this is all about. And that's what football. You can't say, coach, hey, man, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, right? You know, and then all of a sudden, well, hey, judgment day's coming. You know, we're going to know if you've been doing all the physical things you've been telling you've been doing during the off season, whatever. And this is, you know, during this time, we had some time away. We had to give them workouts to do. And I would always say, guys, hey, Bishop, we're going to find out. We're going to know who has and who hasn't real soon. And the same way on the field, I mean, the game day shows who has and who has it. The whole off season gets revealed real fast on Saturday, you know, this fall. And so you can't hide from that. And that's why I love the game because, you know, I just feel like that's life. And so many people, you know, unfortunately, they can hide behind a little image on social media and they can do it. But eventually you got to play the game. Sure, you can talk a big talk and I can't. But eventually you got to step up and let that your production match what you've been saying. So to me, that's why I think it's a special game. I think you said it's the greatest team game out there. I can't imagine another Sport. We got 125 players on our team here. Whether sport has anywhere close to that number of guys. And I don't care how much you do as an individual, if your other guys don't pull their weight, if they don't do their job, if you don't learn to trust in them and rely on them and work with them and develop a great chemistry, it won't matter. There's certain sports where one guy can take the whole thing over. That doesn't happen in football, especially not the high levels. And so to me, just the team nature of the sport that it just teaches you so many great things, they're going to help you become the man I believe you created to be that. I just can't imagine it better. And I'm biased to it for sure, but I just think it's a great teacher in life.

Yeah. You know that whole trust piece, the greatest story on trust was from the great Bud Grant. I don't know if you've heard heard this story where he'd set up cones every five yards into a square. He'd tell his players before they'd condition, do not walk through my cones. Don't walk through my cones. And he'd immediately go up to the press box, they'd condition the guys and they'd put it on the way to the locker room. And he'd sit there and watch the guys that walk through the cones. He said, it's the guys I can tell who I can trust because coach wasn't around and he purposely would leave and he'd find the guys that did it. Always thought that was really cool. It's what you do when people think you're not watching right which is what you got. So, coach, we're going to finish up this interview. Knowledge through the decades. We're going to walk you through your life. We're going to take you back and ask you to remember a certain time of your life. And what is the attitude lesson? So, obviously, we were all given life. We were all born the same. Right. Naked and not afraid. And so, Coach, when you look at a newborn baby or when you think of your birth or the birth of your children, what is the attitude lesson? Right the way. And just say we talked about attitude. Our definition is it's the way you dedicate yourself to the way you think. Right. Which is so much what you hit that nail on the head. But what do you think the attitude lesson is of a newborn baby?

Wow. I just think when I think of that whole, I think of dependence, you know, just the dependence that they have on, you know, the parents to take care of them and to show them, to raise them, to train them as a young person, as you get older, and that you're just relying on others around you to help you, you know, get your life started the right way and get you moving in the direction that's going to give you a chance to have success later in life.

You know, when you. When you think of teamwork or when I think of teamwork, you know, so often we think of success and bridging the gap so many of us don't focus on. You're the first person that's ever said that. First of all, dependence. I wonder how much of a better team, a better company, better relationships would be if maybe we all became more vulnerable and said, dang it, I need to start depending on the people around me. I mean, it's like every day is a fight for survival, a fight for success, fight for independence. But, boy, when you just said that, there may be real strength, independence. Any thoughts on that?

Well, I think there is. I think, you know, I believe so strongly that it's always about the people that you're with. And we talk about it in recruiting. You know, we can have all these facilities, but it's about the people. That's what makes a place special, a staff that you're on. You're only as good as the people around you. I mean, I depend on our coaches to do a tremendous job of building relationships and being the best at what they do and studying and preparing and being great husbands and fathers and creating an environment that allows us to just all grow together. And I just feel like it's, you know, we isolate things so much sometimes. And that's not, you know, I don't think we're at our best when we are, we're a unit, we're unified and we're trusting in and depending upon the people around us to, you know, to me, that's trust, that's cool. You learn to delegate and trust the people around you to do their job.

All right, so now I want you to think about yourself as a 10 year old. You're in probably third or fourth grade, probably, and I want you to think about either something that happened in your life, something you overcame. But what was the attitude lesson of Coach Allen when he was a 10 year old? What did you learn?

Oh, I would say, I don't know.

Why?

First thing that comes to your mind, I think of the word obedience. You know, my dad was so big into. We were going to obey what we were told to do, and if we didn't, there was accountability. And I got my tail whooped a fair amount of times, you know, when I didn't heed to that, I didn't follow through and do what I was supposed to do. And I love and respect him for it to this day. But man, just to learn to obey and do what you're told to do, and I think that's something that you, you, as you work with young people, when those things, when those, there's gaps in that sometimes in their young person's development, it hurts them later in life, you know, but when you learn to do that, and we all know those are sometimes painful lessons, you know, we have to learn how to obey what we're told to do. But that's a valuable, very, very great quality to be known as, as a guy. Man, this guy is man. When he's told to do something, this guy does it. He can be counted upon, he can be trusted. That word keeps coming up, but it comes and grows in different forms as you get older. But to me, when I was a young person, that's what I had to learn, was to learn to obey and do what I was told to do.

And I think for our gappers out there, those people that are listening, you know, you heard Coach say how much he loves and admires his father for the tough love. And my question to those of you listening now is, do you love your kids enough to be tough on them? Do you love your kids enough and do you believe in yourself enough that they should obey what you're saying? These are the questions that the Get Attitude podcast hopefully brings to our audience. It's A self reflection time. Because if you want to bridge the gap from who you are to who you want to become, I'm telling you, you're going to have to deliver tough love to your kids. And hopefully you've been a product of tough love. And I think it's a great barometer of the next generation and the prior generation. So, coach, that's great. Now you're 20, you're a two sport athlete in college and you're starting to grow up. If you're not grown up, talk to me about what it was like being 20. Do you remember your 20th or 21st birthday and what was the attitude lesson there?

Oh, I think choices. I think you're getting to the point now where the decisions that you make in that window of time are going to define the rest of your life. You know, I made decisions and choices at that point about my career, the path I was going to go professionally, who I was going to marry. And I met my wife in college, you know, and we were both college athletes and students there at the same school and started dating our freshman year and got engaged before our senior year and got married right after we graduated. So literally left college and got married that summer and went to Florida to teach and coach. She was teaching math, I was teaching computers and coaching football and wrestling, and she was coaching volleyball and softball, you know, so. But those choices that you have to make at that stage of your life are pretty defining, you know, And I, and I've always, once again, talked to our team a lot about the choices that we make and how those define who we become. When we're a product of those consequences, good or bad, we got to deal with those. And that's to me, what that time period is all about. And making quality decisions. You know, we talk about mental toughness in our program is the ability to make quality decisions over and over and over again. And to me, those are those decisions, those choices that you make at that stage of your life are very, very powerful. And the rest of your life.

And what's your wife's name?

Traci.

All right, we gotta honor Traci because obviously the best choice you made in your life, right?

Amen to that.

And how long you been married? Probably about 30 years maybe.

Well, we're gonna. It's 28 this Saturday. How about that?

Oh, congratulations. Yeah, that'd be the 18th, I think.

July 18th.

Y. Okay, very good. Ours is 1992. I love it. I love it. So now you guys started your Life and you're 10 years into it, I'd love to know, where were you coaching at 30? Do you remember being 30? And what's the attitude lesson when you got to that 30 year mark 20 years ago? Crazy.

How about that? Yeah, I was at Ben Davis High School.

Wow.

I was coaching there and our kids were all young. They were just getting into school at that stage. We had three in diapers at one time. And then. Oh my gosh, that was always. My wife was. She's a trooper now, I gotta tell you. She was a teacher. And then when the kids were young and they weren't in school yet, she stayed at home with them. And then once they all got in school, then she went back to start teaching. We taught together at Ben Davis and so. But at that time, for me it was. I was actually getting my master's degree in educational leadership at that time. I was the defense coordinator at Ben Davis and went on to be the head coach there a few years after that. But yeah, it's really a. When you think about that time period, for us, it was kind of a crazy time because the kids were so young. You know, at that age there just lots, always lots going on, you know, they're into everything and, and, but such a fun time and such a neat experience and, and we went on a run there at BD where we had a chance to win, you know, three out of four state championships. And in that window of time and this when I would be in my. When I turned 30 and just be able to learn from a guy like Coach Dullahan, who was just such an amazing leader. You know the phrase I never. He said this never left me. That conviction driven leadership is based off a vision of perfection. And I've used that as a driving force for everything that I do, you know, football wise, in terms of that vision of what you want to create in a program, in a scheme, in a family, and that you just. And when you see that and you know what it's supposed to look like, man, you just relentlessly pursue that until you get it the way it's supposed to be. But just being able to learn from a guy like him and obviously the tremendous job that he did in both building a football program and just building young men and trying to do things, you know, the right way in that regard. So just a really special time for us. And I've always said this too. So how about this? Every coach that I work for, every college coach that hired me, I met when I was coaching at Ben Davis. Wow. A very critical professional opportunity for me was the decision to go to Ben Davis. And I was there for nine years. And a lot of those guys were assistants at other colleges. They would come through and recruit. Everybody would come through and recruit that school. And so that was a pretty pivotal time for me to, to be able to. When I did make the jump to college, like I said all those, it's all about relationships and people hire those who they know and they trust. And so that was really kind of a springboard for me to kind of, for the rest of my, you know, where God has brought me to this point.

And so conviction driven leadership. What's the rest of the quote?

Is based on a vision of perfection.

Is based on a vision of perfection. Now that's a dang good attitude lesson right there. And for our gappers, I think the other thing you said so compelling is there are people in everyone's life right now that can change their life right now. And how you show up matters, how you receive them, how they perceive you can matter. So let's jump to 40. Just 10 years ago, right. Where were you at 40 and what was the attitude lesson from you being 40?

Well, I tell you what, I was in the middle of my college journey. And so we, you know, we had, you know, 15 years of high school, made the jump to college, and it was a big deal. You know, we left a very secure, very, you know, when you're a high school coach, you're not at the ebb and flow of the college life and how that all kind of can change so fast. And, you know, one thing I've really learned, when you go to college, you're so dependent upon the head coach because, you know, what happens is if you are fortunate and you have success, you know, he gets a new job oftentimes. Well, either he takes you with you or he doesn't. Okay. Or if they don't win and you get fired, you then you lose your job. So you're tied to that coach. And so it's very critical. So I found myself, you know, I've been at that point, I would have been at Drake University. And in between going, I spent a year at Wabash, spent two years at Lambeth University, went to Drake University as a defensive coordinator and was at the FCS level and, and worked for Chris Creighton there, who's now the head coach of Eastern Mission. An unbelievable. You should have him on your show. I mean, he's phenomenal.

I'm going to tell him you said that.

He's phenomenal. I mean, he's one of the best leadership guys I've ever been around. His attitude's off the charts. It's so positive. He just gets it. You know, he understands young people, but so the chance to be with him. And I tell you what, though, this was a. It was a tough journey because we. We had opportunities there along the way, and different things happened. And sometimes, you know, we. We were. We had chance to have success, but then we didn't. You know, the coach would go on and get another job. And even if he became one situation, he became a coordinator, I couldn't go with him. And so we're looking for another job. And so we had to learn to. We had to learn to trust. That would be that the word for me, that phrase of our time in our life was to learn to trust. And we had to trust in the good Lord. We had to trust in our. In the dream that we. That I felt he put in my heart. My wife would say this when she came to the point where my dream became their dream. And that was so critical because it was a lot. It was. We lived in seven states in 10 years, so this mark we're talking about was right in the middle of all that. We didn't know what the future held. I didn't know I was going to be at Ole Miss within two years of that. Of that year. And I didn't know I was going to be especially recording the SEC at that time. I didn't know I was going to move from there to South Florida as decorder and then back to Indiana at D coordinator, you know, a year after that. So all that stuff and none of that was promised, and we. We were pursuing it, and we basically had taken a huge pay cut to leave and to go to that. The small college level. And my. My wife's job was really what supported us. And all along the way, she made more than I did at all those smaller places. And. And that allowed us. Our incomes together, allowed us to make it work. And. And she sacrificed a lot. And all those moves were really, really hard. And she was there. I mean, we were a team, and we were already close, but we got closer. And our trust and dependence on the good Lord above for him guiding our future and directing us when we didn't know what tomorrow held was an unbelievable time. But, you know, I needed it. I thought I wanted to go or I needed to go or could go from Ben Davis to the Big Ten. That's what everybody wants to do. That's what I wanted to do. Well, God said No, no, no. I got some lessons you need to learn first. And he knew I needed Wabash. I needed Lambeth, I needed Drake. I needed those years to Lear, to trust, to depend, not make it about me, to make it about trusting in him for our future and not in me and what I can do in my own talents. And so that was a valuable lesson to learn. And sometimes those lessons are hard lessons, and we had to buy and sell a bunch of homes. I didn't want our kids to live in apartments and feel temporary, even though they ended up being temporary. But I didn't want them to feel that way, and I wanted them to have some great experiences. And so they had to learn some tough lessons, and it wasn't easy on them either. So that, to me, the word trust was what really we had to learn as a family, and I had to learn individually during that time.

Yeah, that's a big attitude. Listen, and that goes with maturity. It takes a mature person to trust. But it sure sounds like coach Tracy might be really the best coach going on. I was fortunate to coach for the same high school for 25 years. And I've always told Glenn, it's so beautiful. You did that for 25 years. I said, let me tell you something. No one sacrificed more for that high school than my wife. And here's just a shout out, because a lot of our listeners are wives. And I guarantee we got plenty of coaches wives. So God bless the coaches wives. I'm gonna have to write a certain prayer for them. Well, we. So now we're gonna get to the here and now. No place I'd rather be in the greatest time of our lives. You just turned 50. We're gonna wrap this interview up. Number one, I'd love you to just give a message to our gappers. Give a message of hope, of, again, that person that is sitting there, that is facing something in their life that's not a football game. That could be a divorce, could be a job transfer, could be a bankruptcy. I'd love to hear a positive message. And what's your attitude lesson for here and now when you're 50?

Well, it's all about mindset, you know, And I'll say this again, you know, before there's a reality, there's a mentality. And you got to believe in your heart that what you are doing is something so much bigger than yourself. And that to me is you got to have. If you want to have passion in your life, you got to know what your purpose is. You got to know why you are here and I tell our team this all the time. I'll tell an adult this. I don't care how old you are. You chase and you pursue the passions of your heart and you figure out what you're passionate about and you just say, how can I get paid to do this? Because that's going to create some absolute joy and peace in you of knowing that I am fulfilling what I was created to do. I don't want to just punch in and punch out for my job. That's a horrible way to live. And I just am such a big believer that when you chase the, the desires of your heart and I believe the good Lord puts those there and obviously it's as long as it's things that are going to allow to make you and this place a better place that you're going to be a part of. I'm not talking about just going out and doing things that make it about me, me, me, me, me. But there's things you can do to fulfill. Because usually when you have that big passion, it involves people around you, it involves others. And that's what makes it so powerful and so meaningful, is when it's just about me and it's just about individuals. I mean, that always takes you, like I'll say this all the time. So you can imagine at the end of a game and you have a huge victory and you're in the locker room and all you, you're in there by yourself.

Yeah.

Celebrating by yourself. No. A celebrated locker room. You've been in that room. There's nothing greater in sport than a celebrated locker room. It's such an unbelievable feeling of accomplishment. And you've been a part of the teams that have won championships and maybe get a big win that you just, whatever you had to. If it was just you in there, I mean, that's like, it's kind of silly. We never do that. But sometimes we make this life about us too much. And so I just challenge people to invest in the people around you, love the people around you, care about people around you that add so much value. I learned a valuable lesson. John Maxwell talks about this principle and I'm a big reader of his and John Gordon and Mark Batterson and I think you should be. We all should read. That's how we grow and that's how we learn. And so. But John Matthew talks about when you want to. He has the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership and I use that for leadership council. And so one of those laws is called the law of addition. All right. Well, within that chapter, the law of addition, he talks about that 90% of people, when they. In relationships, we either add value or take away from the others around us. We either add value to them or we take from them. We're either givers or takers, Right? Well, those that add value to others around them, they do so intentionally, 90% on purpose. And those that take away from others, they do that 90% of it unintentionally. Okay. Because we don't mean to do it, but we naturally do it.

Why?

Because we're naturally selfish.

Sure.

And so we have to intentionally give. We have to intentionally serve other people. And that, to me, is why it's such a big deal that you. But it's a choice, okay? You choose to live that way. You choose to live a life thinking of other people. Because we naturally want to make it about. That's why when you're a young person, you have to learn to share. I didn't have to teach our kids how to be selfish with their toys. I had to teach them how to share their toys. That's what the beauty of having, you know, not being an only child, because they had to. They had to learn that lesson. I had to learn that lesson as a kid. We had one bike that, when I was younger, we all had to share that one bike. I remember that it was a red Schwinn bike that we all shared when we were younger. But that was the reality. That's what we did. But that, to me, is a valuable challenge to everybody right now. I don't care what age you are. And I said, I just turned 15. And so. But for me, it is about pursuing the passions of my heart. I don't have to get myself jacked up to come to work every day, because I love what I do. I feel so blessed to be the head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers. But this is where I've been called to be at this stage of my life. And I feel so, you know, like I said, just blessed to be in this position because I'm doing what I was created to do. So I want that for everybody. And I don't care. Like I said, I don't care how old you are. You can always pursue that, whatever that may be, and maybe something you do on the side in addition to what you do, but just chase those passions that you have and make it about somebody else besides yourself.

Who, Jason? What do you think of that makes.

Me want to be a coach?

Well, we're all coaches in one way or another, Coach, you added to our audience and we appreciate it. The people will hear this. We will get this out.

You.

You help somebody. I'm telling you, you're going to help somebody. Your words matter. Dependence, obedience, choices, trust and the mentality to pursue your passion that is Coach Tom Allen's knowledge through the decades. You've been a real blessing to us at the Get Attitude podcast. We are so fortunate and so thankful to have you with us. I'm sorry I kept you over a little bit, but you're so darn good I had to let it keep going. So God bless you, sir, and thank you so much, Coach.

Lord bless you too, Glenn. Thank you for having me on your show. And Leo.

All right, Leo, buddy, we'll see you. This podcast is a part of the C Suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit C suiteradio. Com.